Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - JENNIFER HARRIS, 28 & PREGNANT, FLOATING DEAD IN RED RIVER, TEXAS

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Mother’s Day, 2002: Jennifer Harris spends the afternoon at her friend Kristy Farr’s house. Around 8:00 p.m., Jennifer says she has to go, seemingly heading to other plans. She leaves in her green soft-top Jeep, but she never makes it home that night. Her family reports her missing early the next morning. That afternoon, Jennifer’s car is found abandoned on the side of the road near a local music spot. There are no signs of a struggle, and none of her belongings are inside. Six days into the search, a fisherman on the Red River calls 911 after spotting a woman’s naked body floating face down in the water. It is Jennifer. Her body is so badly decomposed that a medical examiner cannot determine the cause of death, classifying it only as a "violent homicide." Investigators learn that Jennifer told her ex-husband she was pregnant and that he was the father, despite Rob Holman having a new girlfriend. In a shocking twist, the only evidence of Jennifer’s pregnancy is missing from her remains. Forensic experts cannot determine why her uterus is gone but believe fish and turtles likely destroyed it. Jennifer Harris' murder remains unsolved Joining Nancy Grace Today: Alyssa Wernick - Jennifer’s younger sister Barry Wernick - Alyssa’s husband; Attorney, Mediator, and Arbitrator; Filmmaker with docuseries on Jennifer in the works, RedRabbitJustice.com; GiveSendGo.com/JusticeForJennifer; Justice for Jennifer Harris (FB) Dr. Judy Ho - Clinical and Forensic Neuropsychologist, Author: "The New Rules of Attachment"; and "Stop Self-Sabotage," @drjudyho (IG, X), @doctorjudyho (FB) Daryl Parker - Former Lieutenant in the Fannin County Sheriff's Office, Private Investigator for Harris Family, Board Certified Criminal Defense Investigator,  President at Blackfish Intelligence, Former Marine, Former Texas police officer, Innocence Project of Texas, @blackfishintel (IG), @blackfishintelligence (FB) Dr. Thomas Coyne - Chief Medical Examiner, District 2 Medical Examiner's Office, State of Florida, Forensic Pathologist, Neuropathologist, Toxicologist,  @DrTMCoyne (X) Claire St. Amant - Author: "Killer Story: The Truth Behind True Crime Television," @clairestamant (X), @clairesta (Insta), @journalistclairestamant (FB) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A small town mom-to-be goes missing after visiting a friend. Her Jeep discovered abandoned the next day. What happened to Jennifer? Joining us tonight, an all-star panel, including Jennifer's family, joining us in the search for what happened to Jennifer. It all started on a Mother's Day.

Listen. Mother's Day. Jennifer spends the afternoon at friend Christy Farr's house. Around 8 p.m., Jennifer says she has to go, seemingly headed to other plans. She takes off in her green soft top Jeep, but Jennifer never makes it home that night. Family reports are missing early the next morning. Very often we hear comments like, you can't report someone missing until 24 hours have passed. When a woman disappears, it's often said, oh, she's taking some me time.

She's out with her new boyfriend. Every time I have ever heard that, it's been false. The person, the woman is either missing or dead. of death amongst pregnant women is homicide. I'm sure there are all sorts of psychological or psychiatric reasons for that shocking statistic. But what I do know and what is relevant to me is that it's true. The number one cause of death amongst pregnant women in America is homicide. Not high blood pressure, not a heart attack, not some complication of the pregnancy. It's homicide. This beautiful young woman, just 28, pregnant. How did she end up floating dead in the Red River in Texas? That's what we're trying to determine. So we know Mother's Day, she spends the afternoon at a friend, Christy's, around 8 p.m. She leaves, but she never makes it home.

What else do we know? Listen. That afternoon, Jennifer's car is found abandoned on the side of the road not far from a local music spot it doesn't appear like there was any struggle and none of jennifer's belongings are in the car foot searches of the area turn up nothing volunteers and police officers spend days combing the streets of bonham looking for any sign of Jennifer Harris. Joining us, all-star panel, including Claire St. Armand. Joining us, author of Killer Story, The Truth Behind True Crime TV. Claire, thank you for joining us.

Explain to me where her Jeep was found. Thanks for having me, Nancy. So Jennifer's Jeep was found on a county road near Lake Bonham, and it was a remote area. It was not highly populated, and it was found there with the door closed, locked, and her purse was missing. Huh. So tell me about this remote area. Why do you say it was remote and very under-traveled? So Bonham is a small town to begin with. There are not a lot of people who live there. And this was a back road. It wasn't well lit. It didn't have many businesses on it. There was one business

that was called the Hoedown, but it was closed. It was like a local music venue and it was not having any activity that night. So the only reason to be on this road would have been if you lived over there or perhaps to go to the lake. But by the time her vehicle traveled this road, and we do have some various ways of knowing what time that her her vehicle was going down this road it was already after dark so there wouldn't have been a whole lot to see Claire st. Armand joining us Claire what time according to the evidence was she driving along this remote area so it was shortly after 8 p.m. that she was found to be driving in this area. And we know that because she had left her friend's house after getting a recipe for chicken spaghetti. She had left her friend's house and said, it's almost eight o'clock. I've got to go.

And she didn't say who she had to go meet with or why she had to leave. But she specifically said, it's almost eight. I've got to go. And it doesn't take long to get from Christy Farr's house to where her vehicle was found. And it's believed that she took a direct route. So it would have just been minutes. And there's even a neighbor who saw her car as she was taking her evening walk. And she remembered that it had just started to rain. And so based on using weather data, we can really pinpoint the time that her Jeep arrived at this area to just a few minutes after 8 p.m. I'm not really sure that just because Jennifer, who spent the whole day with her friend, Christy Farr, looks at her watch and says, oh my goodness, it's eight o'clock. I got to go. I don't know that we can extrapolate to she was meeting someone in some nefarious way.

Why is her Jeep in this remote area? We don't know that yet. An empty music venue, but let's move forward. Jennifer's family is with us tonight. Straight out to Alyssa Warnick and Barry Warnick. This is Alyssa's husband. To both the Warnicks, thank you for being with us. Alyssa, I'm sure you recall when you learned your sister was missing. Tell me what happened. Well, I was living inin and i got a phone call the day after mother's day that her jeep had been found in the area of lake bonham which is north of

bonham on a county road and it just seemed peculiar to me that she would leave her vehicle for any reason, much less without her dog, who she carried wherever she went. So I just started calling and asking questions and wondering what she could be up to, if she decided to take a trip somewhere or join someone somewhere. But the fact that she didn't come home at night was a major red flag. How closely were you guys in touch? We were three years apart, so we had different sort of life paths going on at that time. But we did touch base with each other, especially around Mother's Day because we lost our mother. And that was an emotional time. But unfortunately, I didn't get a hold of her on Mother's Day. She had been in Sherman with my

grandmother and her friend. But we did we did talk from time to time. I wouldn't say every day, but recently up until her death, we were in touch quite a bit. Very often when we solve cases and we hit a dead end, we circle back and we take a look at the victim. Listen. Jennifer Harris grows up in rural Bonham, Texas. Parents Jerry and Alicia Harris couldn't be more proud. Jennifer is a wonderful sister, a cheerleader, part of student council, and is rarely found without her beau, Rob Holman. The couple starts dating in the sixth grade and has been inseparable ever since.

Jennifer, known as the dreamer of the family, heads off to college three hours away in Nacogdoches. Three years later, Rob follows Jennifer to Dallas and asks her to marry him, a proposal she happily accepts. And then, a life-changing event, the loss of her mother. Listen. Less than a year after her wedding, Jennifer loses her mother to a long battle with cancer. Jennifer experiences a great deal of personal growth as she grieves with her family. Jennifer and Rob settle in suburban Dallas so Jennifer can return to school, now training as a massage

therapist, while Rob takes a landscaping job. Alyssa, this is Jennifer's sister. How did the loss of your mother affect her? Well, unfortunately, we lived with her illness of cancer for quite a long time. We both took turns visiting her every other weekend because I was living in Austin and she was living in McAdooches at SC and so we wanted to make sure that one of us was with her each weekend but it was unfortunate that it happened to be the week that my mom passed that she was visiting a friend in California. So she never forgave herself for not being there when it happened. I've got a question, Alyssa.

Do you in any way think Jennifer, who we believe was pregnant at the time, would have committed suicide? Absolutely not. Not a chance. She actually, in fact, was putting her pieces of her own puzzle together and trying to pick up and start a new life. She had her sights on moving to Colorado or New Mexico and starting fresh. She even considered moving to Austin to be near me. And she had a lot of hope. Barry Ornick joining us. This is Alyssa's husband, also an attorney and mediator. Thanks for being with us, Barry. What were your impressions of your sister-in-law, Jennifer? Do you agree? No way would she have committed suicide? From everything that I know and I've learned about Alyssa and her family, that would have been

the furthest thing from Jennifer's mind, especially at that time. I'm also a filmmaker and we're working on investigating Jennifer's murder and documenting it and putting together a docuseries. And in so doing, we're interviewing so many different people. Um, but just talking to Alyssa, talking to, um, Jennifer's friends at the time, she had hope. She was getting her life together. She was planning on a movie there to Austin. She was applying for jobs. She actually scheduled a trip with her father a couple weeks later to go down to the Guadalupe Mountains to go hiking so she had plans moving forward the other thing

is her Jeep was found 12 miles from the Red River now how someone gets out of their car takes the purse leaves everything in order. Of course, there's a CD missing that she was planning on giving to her ex-husband. And somehow just gets herself naked, walks 12 miles or takes a ride 12 miles to, I don't know. Barry, I mean, I'm certainly not a shrink, but I do know this. And all the cases I have ever investigated, prosecuted or covered,

I've never seen a person part their Jeep, go for a 12 mile hike and then go, oh, I think I'll kill myself. That just doesn't make sense. Also, the fact that she was pregnant. It's very unlikely statistically that she would have committed suicide while pregnant. Why? Again, I can't tell you that, but I do know what statistics tell me. Now, also, Alyssa Warnock joining us. This is Jennifer's sister, likely the closest person in the world to Jennifer.

So she had started dating. I guess that means holding hands with her soon to be husband all the way back in the sixth grade. And they became inseparable. She moves to the big city from Bonham to Dallas, and then he wants to be with her. So he follows her and they do get married. Is that correct, Alyssa? Well, she she moved to Nacogdoches to go to Stephen F. Austin University and Rob followed her there. They were inseparable at the time.

They loved Nacogdoches. That was the happiest time of their lives, in my opinion. And it just wasn't until they both graduated and needed to start their careers that more opportunity was in the Dallas area. So that's when they moved to Dallas. And they lived in Carrollton, I believe, at the very beginning of their career journeys. Police launch an exhaustive search. Six days later, a fisherman finds a naked body floating in Red River. Cooked up theories and public opinions lead law enforcement on a wild goose chase for suspects. What really happened? Let me understand. The two of them marry and they settle down in suburban Dallas.

She goes back to school to study massage therapy and he goes into landscaping. Is that where we're at at that point? Yes, correct. And as Barry and I have discussed off air, I mean, he is a lawyer, now filmmaker and the title of that doc is planned to be Justice for Jennifer. You know how one little fact, Barry, can totally skew an investigation, much less a presentation to the jury. If you have one fact wrong, you could be screwed. Yeah, that's correct.

It puts everything else into jeopardy. Now what's really credible, you know, and everything loses credibility. So you want to make sure that every fact, every detail that you have is correct and no presuppositions or anything else like that. We're talking about whether Jennifer could have committed suicide. The couple seems happy in their first home together, but they begin to learn that they want different things in life. Jennifer loves frequent outings and their proximity to the city, but Rob hates the hustle and bustle, preferring the slower pace of Bonham and wants to settle down and start a family. The two break up.

They wanted different lifestyles. She likes a big city. He wanted to go back home and acquire a pace of life. So they split. Let's get back to the present day. Jennifer is found face down, pregnant in a river. Let's go back to the time she disappeared. Listen. When Jennifer Harris disappears without a trace, police immediately turn to the men in her life, ex-boyfriend James Hamilton and ex-husband Rob Holman. Hamilton tells officers he moved on and hoped Jennifer was happy.

Hamilton says he was eating with friends at a McDonald's 50 miles away at 8 p.m. on Mother's Day. Back out to Claire St. Amant joining us, author of Killer Story, The Truth Behind True Crime TV. Claire, when the two separated, okay, when the husband went back home and she stayed in the big city, they both started seeing other people, right? Correct. They were no longer together. They continued to communicate. They continued to keep up a relationship, but they were dating other people. Dr. Judy Ho joining us, renowned clinical forensic neuropsychologist and author of The New Rules of Attachment. Dr. Judy, thank you for being

with us. You know, these two had been sweethearts since sixth grade. They split up. They want different lifestyles and find new loves. But, you know, it's not always as simple as it seems, is it, Dr. Ho? It really isn't, Nancy, because they've known each other pretty much all their lives. There's still going to be that connection. As we grow, of course, our preferences change. We start to know ourselves better. They decide they want different things. But that type of emotional connection, it's not just going to end overnight. These individuals have seen each other grow up, have seen each other's dreams and hopes, have seen each other through big things. And it's not just going to be as easy as we are broken up and we're never going to speak again. I'm never going to think about you again. You know, earlier, Dr. Judy Ho, we were discussing the unlikelihood that Jennifer committed suicide. There is no COD yet, cause of death. And I find

that very, very interesting. Dr. Thomas Coyne joining me, chief medical examiner, District 2 ME's office in Florida. Dr. Coyne, I'm very surprised she's found floating dead in a river that they could not attribute her COD cause of death to drowning. More than likely because of the processes of decomposition. Bodies in water are probably some of the most hardest cases that we encounter.

Second you die, your body starts to basically digest itself as well as the bacteria that lines all of our cavities begin the process of putrefaction. Putrefaction will break down all of our body tissues, you know, causes massive color change, literal loss of tissue. Now you add that into a water environment where you have a number of other scavenging marine life, which include crabs, turtles, fish. You have other avian species that may be involved that actually come in and actually remove tissue. So when the body is received at the medical examiner's office, it may be very difficult to determine cause of death because you're just simply missing a lot. You know, we base our decisions upon what we see with our eyes as well as what we see under our microscope. And if the

tissue isn't there, it's hard to make a diagnosis. You know, it's hard to actually track hemorrhage in tissue if the tissue is absent. Actually, like, you know, for instance, if we find a body outside and it has completely skeletonized, and very often it does that in the heat of Florida or in the heat of Texas, if a person was shot and that bullet only traveled through soft tissue and all we have left is skeleton, we may not be able to tell whether or not a person has been shot. So, again, decomposition, the actual scavenging of animal life, that can make it very difficult for us to determine how a person died. To Dr. Judy Ho, how likely is it statistically that a pregnant mom commits suicide? Extremely unlikely, Nancy. As you mentioned

earlier, that is a huge wrench in this supposed story that she would somehow take her own life. Usually that is a meaning to live life to the best of your ability for most people. And even sometimes when the pregnancy is a surprise, when the pregnancy is not necessarily planned, it's still usually, and we're saying usually, because of course there's always the exception, but usually it helps the person to say, no, I'm not living for myself anymore. And no matter what happens, I got to do better. And I have to look forward to something for the future. And when you have hope and meaningfulness like that, you do not take your own life. You know, Dr. Judy Ho, I knew you'd be able to explain it.

I just know the statistics based on cases I investigate, try as a homicide and cover that I never see pregnant women commit suicide. And very curious to Claire St. Amant joining us in addition to Jennifer's family, her sister and her husband, who is so moved by this case, he's actually creating a documentary. Claire, again, thank you for being with us. Claire, the time period from the time she went missing, was reported missing, to the time her body was found in the Red River. How much time passed? It was one week. So she's found in the Red River a week after she goes missing. And so it's a long period of time. It's difficult, you know, for her family. They're searching for her. They're looking in wooded areas. They're looking, you know,

in bodies of water, trying to figure out where she could have gone. Baby Lisa Irwin vanishes from her crib in the middle of the night. Then a key witness sees a suspicious man that night carrying a baby. This potential suspect has never been interviewed before, but Megyn Kelly tracks him down. Megyn Kelly Investigates is a five-part series releasing every weekday, beginning Monday, March 10. Available on YouTube, SiriusXM, and wherever you listen to the Megyn Kelly Show podcast. Click the link in the description of this episode for more. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

No suspects, lost evidence, and dead witnesses stalls the search for a killer. Who had the most to gain by Jennifer's disappearance. Another thing that I noticed, Dr. Thomas Coyne, is that while we don't have a COD cause of death, such as ligature strangulation, poisoning, a gunshot wound, knife wound, we don't have the cause of death. But we've been thrown a little clue. We do know her death was ruled, quote, violent homicide. Now, I find that curious because if they won't tell me, the COD, then how do they know it's violent homicide? I've got one other clue. The only injury that we could get from the medical examiner's report was a wound on her abdomen and damage to internal organs.

Now, that is in total contradiction of a theory she could have committed suicide, right? What, did she beat herself and cause internal damage? No. Sure, and I assume those injuries could be determined to be not from animal scavenging or decomposition. But it's not uncommon for medical examiners to rule on a matter of death and not a cause of death based upon the circumstances. Given the fact that she was found so far from her vehicle, the police investigation did not, and the family interviews did not show any evidence to suggest perhaps that this was a suicide.

I'm assuming also the autopsy at least disclosed that she had no underlying natural disease processes, although decomposition was present, but you could still sometimes determine if whether or not there was any other serious disease process that were present. So my assumption is that based upon all of the circumstances, they were able to at least render a manner of death in this case, which is homicide. You know, I was talking to Dr. Judy Ho earlier about how things are not always as they seem. I remember my first high school boyfriend with great affection. This guy, she had known since sixth grade. Okay, listen. On a visit to Jennifer's Dallas home, Jennifer's father, Jerry Harris, notices five large holes in the living room wall.

When asked what happened, Jennifer says she got in an argument with Rob, who got so angry he began punching the wall. Late one night, Alyssa Harris gets a call from her older sister. Jennifer tells her Rob came home drunk and angry and forced himself on her when she tried to calm him down. Jennifer never reports the attack to police, but Alyssa notices a huge change in her sister's demeanor with her husband. That was never reported to police, and the husband, the ex-husband, has never been accused or charged in that event. Alyssa, what do you recall of that conversation with Jennifer?

I just remember she called me me and she was very upset. She was crying and she didn't understand how could this happen. It's her husband and she felt like she couldn't record anything because how do you go to the authorities and say you know my husband forced me to have sex with him or, you know, forced me onto the bed or whatever. She felt like things had gotten out of control with the drinking. And it really forced her to look at some bigger issues. And that's when she began therapy. Daryl Parker is joining us, a certified criminal defense investigator, president of Blackfish Intelligence.

Daryl, why is it that so many women don't report rape? In this case, if it's true and the husband, the ex-husband, of course, denies it. We have no claim, no police report. So many women feel they cannot report a rape because fill in the blank. I was married to him. I was out on a date with him. I had been drinking. My skirt was too short. Have you noticed that so often alleged rapes do not get reported for a multitude of reasons, Daryl? Yeah. I mean, a lot of times these women are invested in these relationships. You know, they either for financial reasons, security, the length of the relationship, fear of further

violence, those kind of things. All those are reasons why someone might not report a rape. Well, we definitely need a shrink for this. Why is it when you break up so often you bounce back a rebound relationship? And that's what Jennifer did. Listen. With her marriage on the rocks, Jennifer meets someone new at massage therapy school. James Hamilton, who lives with the mother of his child and has a second one on the way, is Rob's polar opposite. James has big dreams and likes Jennifer as much as she likes him. Friends warn Jennifer about getting involved with James with her husband at home. To Dr. Judy Ho, what do you make of the rebound relationship? Well, Nancy, it's a pattern that obviously we see sometimes. Maybe we've even done ourselves after we break up with someone. And the reason is this, there's that emotional attachment. And sometimes the breakup is very

sudden, or there's a feeling that am I making the right choice. So then there's all of these feelings and you got nowhere to go. And in that time, your decision making is going to be a bit clouded, you may not decide on the best partner. You just want somebody, somebody who's around, who's going to fill that void at least temporarily. And this is why a lot of times when people have a rebound relationship, friends and family members are commenting because, hey, maybe this is not the person you should be with. But the reason is you're just looking for anyone, anyone that you can cling on to during that emotionally vulnerable moment. And you're not making your best decisions. Alyssa what did you think of your younger sister Jennifer's rebound

relationship? I thought it was a little quick and based on emotional not not not so much brain but more heart and I thought she could think things through better and take things a little slower and I do feel like it was solely based on shared dreams and aspirations and not so much and well not only that Alyssa the guy has a pregnant wife at home and a baby. That's not a good choice. Well, she came to that realization. Listen. Not long after finishing school, Jennifer hands Rob divorce papers and he returns to Bono a single man.

James quickly moves in with Jennifer and the couple decides to start their own spa together. As they struggle to get their business off the ground, James begins hinting he wants to get married. But Jennifer is starting to regret leaving Rob. As the spa fails, Jennifer's relationship with James also fails. Jennifer files for bankruptcy and breaks up with James on bad terms. A small-town mom-to-be goes missing after visiting a friend. Her Jeep discovered abandoned the next day. What happened to Jennifer? Claire St. Amant joining us. Claire, so she breaks up with the new love, James. Isn't it true that when they were dating, James was married, had a pregnant wife, and already had one child with the wife?

Yes, it was a complicated relationship, Nancy. So Jennifer was involved with James at the same time that she was still married to Rob. And so they had met in massage therapy school and James had another relationship. Jennifer had another relationship. There was nothing, you know, very clean or traditional about their relationship. Alyssa, what did you make of her rebound relationship being with a guy who was in a relationship with a pregnant woman that already had one child? Well, I mean, I was clearly not supportive. It was not ideal.

I felt like it was something out of The Springer Show or something. Like, it just, it reeked of just drama and chaos. Claire, it wasn't long after that, that without any income, not knowing what to do next, Jennifer decides to move back home. Isn't that where the ex is? Correct, Nancy. So Jennifer moves back to her hometown of Bonham, Texas, and she moves in with her grandmother. And she's seen around town with Rob Holman, her ex-husband. At that point, Claire, wasn't Holman already in another relationship? Yes, he was.

Rob was dating his new girlfriend and they had moved in together, but he was seeing Jennifer also. And it was something that she felt really uncomfortable about. She knew that he was going to continue to see his ex-wife. Now, Rob said that it was just like a cordial relationship. It was because their families knew each other and they had known each other for so long. But many people wondered if something else was going on. Yeah, for her to move back where he is and then a bombshell. He says it's a cordial relationship and that's it. Well, what about this? Jill Wagner gets a call from her best friend, Jennifer. When Jennifer leads with you're not going to believe the mess I'm in. Jill takes a wild guess. You're pregnant. Jennifer tells her Rob Holman is the father and she doesn't know what to do.

Holman doesn't seem to have any intention of breaking up with his girlfriend. Jill doesn't have much advice to offer, telling her friend to follow her gut. And when she decides to tell her ex she's pregnant, she does not get the response most women hope for. Jennifer gets the courage to tell Rob about her pregnancy on a drive-in date. The couple talks about their options, but Rob says he's overwhelmed and needs some time to process.

They go their separate ways that evening without committing to any decision about the future. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So let me understand, Alyssa. Jennifer's pregnant and we're leading up to the moment she's discovered face down in the Red River. She believes it's her ex, Holman's baby. She tells Holman and he says he's overwhelmed and that he didn't know what he wanted to do. He actually admits we just saw him on tape stating she told me she was pregnant and it was mine.

Did you know all that? I didn't know she was pregnant until I got to the house, my grandmother's house, when she was missing and I started kind of pilfering through items in the bathroom trying to find out any indication of what her mindset was and I did find pregnancy tests and that coupled with the fact that I found out that she was seeing Rob on the side it just indicated to me that that she was pregnant with his child, yes. The pregnancy test you found, had it been used? Did it say positive? It had not been used. It was a packet of like two and one was missing. It's not long after this where she tells the ex that she's pregnant by him.

Her body is found. Listen. Six days into the search for Jennifer,ifer a fisherman in the red river calls 911 he sees a woman's naked body floating face down in the water she has reddish brown hair it's jennifer her body is so badly decomposed a medical examiner cannot determine her cause of death only classifying it as a violent homicide there is damage to some of her internal organs and shockingly Jennifer's uterus is missing. Forensic experts cannot explain why but believe it was destroyed by fish and turtles. And that is why the ME cannot confirm she was pregnant but we know that she was. Also we are learning about a caretaker's home, an abandoned caretaker's home that was burned down the night Jennifer

disappeared. What can you tell me about that, Claire St. Amant? So this is a fascinating development, Nancy. There was a small caretaker's cottage that was near a private boat ramp in Fannin County. And this cottage burned to the ground that night. And it's no known cause for why this would have burned down. There was not any electricity to the cabin. It really points to arson, an intentional lighting of this property, possibly to destroy evidence in Jennifer's murder. And then more added to the mystery. Listen.

A year after Jennifer Harris's murder, Deborah Lambert sees Jennifer's face on the news and realizes she recognizes her. Lambert immediately calls police. She says she was driving on the Red River Bridge and saw a redheaded woman with three men. Two of the men had the woman by the elbows while she struggled to get away. Lambert says she was too scared to get involved at the time, but she now believes that was Jennifer Harris. I made eye contact with her, and she was scared, terrified, look on her face.

My mom seen her too, and she said, that girl's supposed to get raped and killed. That from our friends at CBS 48 Hoursours to Daryl Parker joining us, board-certified criminal defense investigator at Blackfish Intelligence. Daryl, I'm torn. When you spot a redhead, which is really statistically not often, that's stuck in this witness's mind. Okay. She says she made eye contact with the woman, the redhead, and that she looked terrified. Her mother,

the witness's mother saw the redhead and said, that girl's fixing to get raped and killed. Interesting. They did not call police. They did not report it. And they say there were three men. I find it very difficult to believe, Daryl, that three people have managed to keep quiet all this time. Yeah, whatever Ms. Lambert saw that day, it didn't have anything to do with Jennifer Harris. Jennifer Harris's whereabouts throughout the day were pretty well known through the investigation. And the time of Mrs. Lambert's reported sighting of whatever happened was several hours before Jennifer went missing. Ah, uh-huh. So we've got an inconsistency. But then there's the issue of a lineup. Listen.

Police create a lineup for Deborah Lambert in an attempt to identify the men she saw with Jennifer. Lambert picks Rob Holman out of the lineup. Sure, he was one of the men she saw. But currently, investigators cannot attest to the quality of the test. There are no records on who was included. Family members still looking for the murderer who left Jennifer's body naked and floating in a river. And what happened to Jennifer's baby? Six days into the search for Jennifer, a fisherman in the Red River calls 911.

He sees a woman's naked body floating face down in the water. She has reddish brown hair. It's Jennifer. Her body is so badly decomposed, a medical examiner cannot determine her cause of death, only classifying it as a violent homicide. There is damage to some of her internal organs and shockingly, Jennifer's uterus is missing. Forensic experts cannot explain why, but believe it was destroyed by fish and turtles. Claire, tell me about the ill-fated lineup. So Nancy, people wonder if this lineup was done properly, if there was a way that possibly it was tainted, that it could have been that the position that, you know, Rob's photo was in, that it it led the eyewitness to use it. But, you know, ultimately, he was identified as who they believed to be the person on the Red River Bridge. And there's more.

Listen. Mother's Day, eight years after Jennifer Harris's murder, Fannin County Lieutenant Sheriff Daryl Parker takes a stack of Harris family photos to Rob Holman's home. Holman is struck by a photo of Jennifer swimming in muddy water and seems to get emotional. Parker gives Holman his card and just a few hours later gets a call. Holman wants to talk. Caught off guard, Parker schedules an interview for the next day. But by then, Holman's lost his nerve and lawyered up. Did you have anything to do with the death of Jennifer Harris? No. Jennifer's pregnant, see? Did you believe she was pregnant? No. I didn't like

she was. Did you think that she believed she was pregnant? No. That from our friends at CBS 48 Hours. Claire, explain to me what we are hearing. So the ex, who is not named a suspect at this juncture. So the ex wants to confess. They say come in the next day. And by then he's lawyered up and won't give a statement.

Correct. And he no longer is willing to talk. He's no longer willing to take a polygraph, as he had previously said that he would be willing to do. You know, in the recorded interviews that we have with Rob Holman, right when Jennifer goes missing, I think we have the most reliable information. That's whenever he says that he knew that she was pregnant, that he asked her to get an abortion, that he didn't want her to have the baby, that it would ruin his life, that she had threatened

to come to the house and tell his new girlfriend that she was pregnant with his child. And all of these things are just sort of spilling out of him in this initial interview with police. But in future conversations, once he's represented by an attorney, he says he didn't know she was pregnant. He says he didn't have any idea that the baby, you know, that there was a baby or that it could be his. And he's completely changed his story, Nancy.ire st amant that's a problem it's a problem not when you add facts to your statement but when you actually change facts that's when there's a problem you would think it would raise more suspicions but in you know rob

holman's case he was never arrested never charged never never had to face any more scrutiny for the fact that he changed his story, that he now says that he didn't believe that she was pregnant. You know, this this should be a huge investigative turn, I would think. But he was never arrested, never charged. Again, he is not named a suspect. He has not been charged just because he gave conflicting statements does not mean he's going to be charged with murder. As of right now, we don't even have a COD cause of death. There is a $50,000 reward for evidence, information regarding what happened to Jennifer. If you know or think you know anything about what happened to Jennifer, please dial 1-903-583-2143. We stop now and remember an American hero, Lauren Michael Cortz, Detroit PD, shot and killed in the line of duty.

Survived by grieving mother Lillian and father, a retired Detroit police officer. Wife Kirsten, now a widow, and son Darian, daughter Devin. American hero, police officer, Lauren Michael Quartz. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.