Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Joran van der Sloot to reveal how Natalee Holloway died in court

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

Joran van der Sloot's Alabama court appearance Wednesday could give Natalee Holloway's family information they have been seeking since 2005. The main suspect in Holloway's disappearance is expected to plead guilty to charges of extorting and defrauding the teen’s mother.  It is not known what specific charges in the extortion case he will plead guilty to. A condition of the plea deal requires the Dutch national to reveal how Holloway died and how her body was disposed of.   Sentencing will also take place. Van der Sloot must finish his time in a Peruvian jail, before returning to serve out his U.S sentence.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: James Shelnutt – Attorney – The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; 27-year Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective and Former S.W.A.T. Officer; Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm Dr. John Delatorre –  Licensed Psychologist and Mediator (specializing in forensic psychology); Psychological Consultant to Project Absentis: a nonprofit organization that searches for missing persons; Twitter, IG, and TikTok – @drjohndelatorre  Sheryl McCollum– Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder; Former Georgia State Director with Mothers Against Drunk Drivers (MADD); Host of new podcast: “Zone 7;” Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Irv Brandt – Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch; Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs, US Embassy Kingston, Jamaica; Author: “SOLO SHOT: CURSE OF THE BLUE STONE” – AVAILABLE ON AMAZON IN JANUARY; ALSO “FLYING SOLO: Top of the World;” Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor Joe Scott Morgan – Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, “Blood Beneath My Feet,” and Host: “Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;” Twitter: @JoScottForensic  Carol Robinson - Senior Reporter for AL.com; Twitter: RobinsonCarol  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Are we on the cusp of learning the truth about what happened to American beauty teen girl Natalie Holloway. Natalie Holloway, an all-A student set to head off to college in pre-med. Her life cut short when she goes on a senior trip to Aruba, class sponsored. She's never seen alive again. Many, including myself, believe that she was murdered by a judge's son in Aruba, Jorn Vandersloot. It's such a long and sordid story. Natalie Holloway accepts a ride, very uncharacteristic.

I believe that she had been given a roofie in her drink at a casino that night in Aruba. We have now learned after traveling to Aruba and investigating that that was the M.O., modus operandi, method of operation of the judge's son, Jorn Vandersloot, to give tourist girls roofies and then rape them. Long story short, I believe that's what happened to Natalie that night. She left very uncharacteristically, left her friends behind, gets in the car with this guy out of it. This girl was never seen again. Jorn Vandersloot holds the answers to her death. And now, after trying to bribe Natalie's mother by promising to tell the truth,

he's facing federal charges for extortion and wire fraud. As part of a plea deal, he says he'll reveal what happened to Natalie. Is it true? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here on Sirius XM 111. Listen to this. It looks like Joran Vandersloot is going to plead guilty in his federal extortion case. Court records show he has a plea and sentencing hearing set for Wednesday morning at the federal courthouse in Birmingham. This is in the case where he allegedly told Natalie Holloway's parents that he would tell them where her body was in exchange for thousands of dollars. For the last 18 years, Natalie Holloway's family and her community

have endured the pain of the unknown. Now, family attorney John Kelly tells us Yoron Vandersloot is revealing details about Holloway's death in Aruba. The confession is part of a plea bargain in a federal wire fraud case linked to Holloway's disappearance. There won't be any further, you know, investigation or search or anything like that if that's what you're asking for Natalie's remains. But are we actually taking his word for it? I can't believe that's happening. So he tried to basically extort a grieving mother for thousands and thousands of dollars to tell her where Natalie's remains were. He gets the money and then lies. And now he's doing it again. He's getting a plea

deal in exchange for telling us where now these remains are. Seriously? Anybody's going to believe him? With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. You were just hearing our friends at WVTM. Now take a listen to our friends at the Today Show. Jordan Vandersloot will appear in an Alabama courtroom once again. The prime suspect in Natalie Holloway's disappearance for years, Vandersloot has never been charged with her murder. But he was extradited to the U.S. months ago, accused of attempting to extort the Holloway family. Vandersloot pleaded not guilty, but according to the Holloway family attorney, the court will consider a plea deal this week with a major contingency.

It was conditioned upon Mr. VanderSloot revealing details of how Natalie died and our body was disposed of. Seriously? And we're going to just give him a plea deal? Is it a sweet plea deal for another sack of lies? What a piece of crap. There's no other way to put it. He is leading everybody down the garden path. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know. But first, I'm going to go straight out to Carol Robinson, senior investigative reporter for ALAlabama.com. Carol, is somebody actually

believing him? Nancy, I'm a little bit surprised by all of it, honestly. Again, you know, we know that this is the condition of the plea, but we don't know how you prove what he's told them. I'm just telling you. Okay. Cheryl McCollum joining me right now, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, forensic expert. You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org and she's the star of a new podcast, Zone 7. Cheryl,

please just let me do a lightning round with you. If that's even possible with Cheryl McCollum, this is yes, no. That's what that means. Yes, no answers. Got it.

Cheryl, isn't it true that you and I and Natalie's mother just got back from going to Aruba where we almost got arrested? Yes. Trying to find the truth. Isn't that true? Yes, absolutely. So we're traveling across the world to try to find out what happened to Natalie Holloway. And it's because Jorn Vandersloot has never told the truth, nor has his father, the judge, who I say Jorn Vandersloot gave him a heart attack and he died. But I think the judge, his father was in on disposing of her body as well. The whole reason you and I had to go there is because we wanted answers to try to help Beth, the mother, and we couldn't get them because your VanderSloot has been lying since day one. Nancy, Beth told us he had changed

his... I knew, I knew you could not do a yes, no, but that's okay. Go ahead. Beth told us there he had changed his... And that was you running away while I was getting arrested. That was you. Nothing but elbows and tail hole. That's all I could see. Gone. I was saving myself, honey. Yes, somebody had to be the scribe. Somebody had to tell the world, right, why Nancy Grace was arrested. Go ahead. But she told us there he had changed his story like 70 times. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Actually 70? Are you exaggerating? I'm exaggerating, but the point is she told us every single time. We know for a fact in 2016, he says she's buried in a house. Then she's with dog bones. What, what house? Dog bones, out to sea. Wait, wait, wait, wait. The fisherman hurts.

Yeah. Sex traffic, you know, buried under the hotel. He had dropped off at the hotel. He left her on the beach. I mean, he changes his story every time he talks. I left one out. I couldn't write that fast. House with dog bones, the fisherman hut, buried under the hotel, out to sea, beach, up, that was it,

sex traffic. All of these stories have come from Jorn Vandersleep. Okay, go ahead. And we've all seen him confess multiple times on tape. And then, you know, he extorts Beth. I guess the one when you said on the beach was the one where he was caught on tape and he was saying that she vomited and choked on her own vomit and died. Right. Yeah. Okay, go ahead. So,

you know, is tomorrow morning going to be any big revelation for everybody? Most probably not. He's never told the complete truth. He's thrown people under the bus, including his own father. He's allowed friends to tell, you know,

their version of what occurred. But here's what I think. I think whatever he tells Kamara or Ruba should get some warrants ready for him and the Calpo brothers. Absolutely. Guys, in less than 24 hours, Jorn Vandersloot, the judge's son that murdered Natalie Holloway. Yeah, I'll say it. Come on, come after me, Vandersloot. Come on, come after me, VanderSloot. Come after me, man. Because you know what? When you file a civil lawsuit, that means you will take the stand because I would call him and put him on the stand as my first witness in a civil lawsuit and grill him like a hot dog about what happened the night that Natalie was killed and all of his different

stories and all of his similar transactions, all the times that we learned Cheryl McCollum while we were in Aruba. You know what? You tell it. I don't want to Q&A with myself, Cheryl McCollum, about his M.O., about slipping drugs into drinks of girls. Everybody in the whole casino knew casino knew what he was doing. Everybody knew it.

Everybody knew him. The night, the day she went missing, Beth landed that night, went straight to the hotel, then went to Carlos and Charlie's. They told her, your hand bandersloot. They named him. He was 17 years old. She went to the house. He stood in front of the stepfather, her father, her mother, and described, oh yeah, I was touching her and her underwear had flowers embroidered on it. Moe was to slip Rohypnol to a tourist that he knew was leaving the next day. Because what are the odds that somebody's going to stay behind, miss their flight, have to pay hundreds of dollars

to get on a new flight to make a police report? He knew that the likelihood was almost nil that somebody would do that. You know, joining me in addition to senior investigative reporter for AL.com, Carol Robinson and Cheryl McCollum also. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joseph Scott Morgan with me, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, host of a new hit series, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, just for people that don't know what a roofie is or GHB, Georgia homeboy, explain what that does. If that slipped in a woman's drink. Yeah, it's a, it's a precursor. The drug itself or Hibinol is actually a precursor just so that people understand this as a precursor for anesthesia. So if that's how powerful it is.

So if you go to get surgery, for instance, before they actually put you under, there's that kind of drug that they will administer to you that gives you kind of warm, milky, like floating feeling. You can't defend yourself. You're not going to be able to move your arms. You react very slowly. It puts you into almost like a dream state. And actually, this particular drug, as it applies to GHB, has almost an amnesia effect like to it. So you can't remember things. That's why it's been referred to as a date rape drug, because people can be attacked after having it been administered to them.

And they'll wake up. They have no idea where they are. But you know, the thing about this, if he, Vandersloot, does in fact have this history of utilizing this drug, he understands what the potential is with this drug because he can manipulate, he can guide. Once you have this drug in somebody's system, Nancy, you can guide and direct them to do whatever in the hell it is you want them to do, even if it leads to a homicide. Which leads us to today, right now. Can you imagine what is going through Beth's mind? She has had a quest for justice since Natalie went missing way back when. She's done everything possible. She spent all her time, all of her money, her hopes, her dreams, her plans dashed in one night in Aruba when she let her daughter go on a trip heavily chaperoned.

Nobody did. It's not the school's fault. It's not the chaperone's fault. It's not the mom's fault. It's your VanderSloot's fault. It's like saying, whose fault is it when a jackal sneaks up to the watering hole in the Serengeti and then attacks and tears the throat out of a young gazelle? Whose fault is that? It's the jackal's fault. Your vander sloot is the jackal in this scenario. Will we find out anything tomorrow morning? Take a listen to Sam Bright with NBC.

Kelly expects Vandersloot's detailed narrative of how Natalie died to be revealed after court this week. But much remains under wraps. Back in 2010, federal prosecutors accused Vandersloot of attempting to extort a quarter of a million dollars from Holloway's mother, Beth, for information about how her daughter died. Kelly says the Dutch National later agreed to reveal the location of Natalie's remains in Aruba in exchange for a $25,000 payment. The information proved false. I mean, joining me, Dr. John Delatore, licensed psychologist, mediator. He specializes in forensic criminal psychology. Oh, and you can find him at resolutionfcs.com.

Dr. Delatore, thank you for being with us. I'm just thinking about what is going to happen tomorrow. You know, when you don't know a horse, look at his track record. This guy's done nothing but lie since he murdered Natalie Holloway. Why do we expect him to tell the truth tomorrow morning? He's just going to say what he thinks people want him to say to get a plea deal. That's all that's going to happen yeah absolutely this is simply a matter of procedure no one who is in their right mind is going to believe anything vander sloot says everybody knows that it's going to be another concoction that he has because he enjoys the concoction he enjoys having people as a worm on the fish hook that's the part that he enjoys

no one's going to believe him but this is simply a matter of procedure, something that has to get through for this. What I'm going to say is a travesty of justice. This is nowhere near the justice that Natalie Holloway deserves. You know what? You just said something, and I'm going to write this down. Everybody, guys on the panel, this is really interesting. Everything you said, Delotory, is interesting, but he enjoys the concoction. Hold on, I gotta write that down because it reminds me of something that happened. I went to California for a Victim's Rights March, and while I was there, a young girl came up to me. She's about 17, and she told me this horrible story of attacks on her, an attack on her, how she's been a crime

victim, a sex abuse victim, and she's trying to work through it. And she wanted to talk to me. So I fly back to New York. I gave her my email and phone number and I wanted to help her. For the next couple of years, Dr. Delatore, say three years. I would listen to her on the phone. I would try to find her counselors. I would just all sorts of time. And I paid for some of the counselors to try to help her wait for it. So the stories, I didn't see it at the time, became more elaborate. In the end, she had said she had a job at Starbucks and the Starbucks got robbed and she was further traumatized and she was victimized. And I went, well, you know, and the people hadn't been caught.

So I said, well, what do police say? And she said, well, um, we, and there wasn't a clear answer. I said, well, let me get the police report, and I'm going to help you go to a victim specialist, and I'm going to help on the case. I'm going to personally get involved, and I will come out there and help investigate the case to get the robbers. I was very involved. Well, as it turned out, there was no case. And I finally got ahold of her aunt who the little girl, it turned out had been impersonating her aunt and writing me

about her condition. The whole thing for like years was lies just to get attention, I guess, and enjoying the concoction. And at the end, I didn't feel anger. I just felt really bad for this girl, this little girl. She couldn't have at that point been over 20 years old, but that is very bizarre. Irv Brandt joining me, senior inspector, U.S. Marshal Service, International Investigations Branch, chief inspector, DOJ, Office of International Affairs, author of Solo Shot, Curse of the Blue Stone, which is awesome, and Flying Solo, Top of the World. Irv Brandt, all of this is happening here, but the murder case can never go forward anywhere but in Aruba. So how do we take this case here, the extortion case, get the statement he's going to get, assuming there's no immunity deal, but the feds can't grant him

immunity in Aruba, and then get him back to Aruba to be tried for murder? Nancy, that would be an action by the Aruban government. The United States wouldn't have a say in it. Once Yorn pleads guilty or is found guilty, whichever happens, he's going to be sentenced in the United States. Then he's going to be sent back to Peru. He was extradited only on the condition that he be returned to Peru. So he's going to go back to Peru. It would then be up to the Aruban government to extradite him from Peru to Aruba. He couldn't go from the United States back to Aruba.

OK, I'm just trying to think through what you're saying. And I also want to follow up on Dr. John De La Torre's statement that he's enjoying the concoction. James Shelnut is with me, high profile lawyer joining me from the Shelnut firm. And you can find him at Shelnutlawfirm.com. Major case detective, former SWAT, 27 years on the force. James Shelnut, have you ever seen anything like that, where a person just lies and lies and lies, and they enjoy spinning the web? That takes a lot of time and effort. I've got too much to do to engage in that type of bizarre confab. Well, it takes a lot of effort for me and you.

For him, he's enjoying it like he is he is relishing in this you know if you look at the if you look at the news broadcast where they showed him coming into alabama being transported in a car and one of them he has a smile on his face this this is his limelight this is what he obsesses about it's what he thinks about super bowl oh absolutely he's getting his wish right here. He's loving every second of it. I'm just wondering back to you, Sheryl McCollum. Does he want to go back to Peru in the Peruvian jail?

He's got it so good. He has unlimited conjugal visits. He's had, I think, either one or two babies. He's gotten married. He's dumped that wife for a, quote, younger woman. Seriously? This is real. He gets drugs. He's dumped that wife for a, quote, younger woman. Seriously? This is real. He gets drugs.

He gets alcohol in the Peruvian prison. Why not go back? Exactly. And you and I talked about when he first landed in Alabama, his world was going to be so different. He thought, oh, I'm going to come here and make a big show. And suddenly he realizes, I have no girlfriends here. I'm not getting special treatment. I'm not able to gamble. I'm not having conjugal visits. I can't, you know, have the guards at my beck and call. So he wants to go ahead and plead because remember,

he originally pled not guilty. He wants this plea deal so he can go back, go back to the life that he enjoyed. Even the lawyer attached to the case says they're credibility problems. Boy, that's one way of putting it. Okay, take a listen to Sam Brock with NBC. Mr. Kelly, representing the family, said there's no doubt there are credibility issues here, especially since Vander Sloot has changed his story at least seven times over the course of the last couple of decades. However, what Mr. Kelly told me was that this deal is contingent upon the FBI corroborating the information that Vander Sloot provided, which is to say they think it is legitimate. Now, I did find it interesting that he also told me they're no longer conducting a search for her remains. What was the point then of getting that information specifically? He said

that will all come to light after court, and he is expecting Beth, her mother, to speak following those proceedings. To Carol Robinson, senior investigative reporter, AL.com, Alabama.com, do we know if there is some sort of immunity deal in place, even including Aruba or Peru? Because we know after he murdered Natalie, he then went on to murder Stephanie Tassiana Flores, who he also met at a casino in Peru and then had, we think, had sex with her and then killed her. So according to my sources, there is no immunity as part of the deal. And I've also been told, and I guess you won't really know until tomorrow, There is no immunity as part of the deal. And I've also been told, and I guess you won't really know until tomorrow, but I don't know that he's going to stand up in court and, you know, tell what happened. I think it's going to be something that may come out slowly in court filings. But I don't expect, and this can change, but I don't expect him to stand up there in court tomorrow and say, this is what I did and how I did it. I'd be very surprised

if that happened, but I've been surprised before. But as far as immunity, no. According to my sources, Aruba could still charge him. Yeah. I mean, it could have been devised that way. James Shelnut joining me, SWAT, major case, turned lawyer. There could be an agreement between U.S. and Aruba, but you can't get Aruba to do anything. So I doubt they've entered into any type of an agreement for immunity. I think that Carol Robinson is absolutely correct. So what that means, let's just break it down very quickly. What that means is his story that he's going to give tomorrow is going to be carefully constructed so he avoids a murder charge.

Like she choked. She choked on a piece of shrimp and died. It's going to be some story that gets him off the hook. Well, partially, I agree with that. But think about this. You know, to be charged with a homicide in Aruba or here, you don't have to have actually intended their death. You can put them in a situation such as giving rehypnol,

which I think is likely what happened. But giving her rehypnol and then her choking to death, once you put into play that course of action by giving her hypnol, if she died, if that is his story tomorrow in court or at some point after that, Aruba can still come back and charge him with Natalie's homicide. Okay, Cheryl McCollum, what do you think of that? I think that's likely, and that's what I'm saying. I think the Capo brothers are on the hook. I think he's on the hook. Whatever is said tomorrow, that is in play. They should immediately take action in Aruba

because they have not. But now it's not just, well, he was smoking pot, so we can't take his word for it. Well, he was in a car with somebody we don't know. We can't take his word for it. Well, he was in a car with somebody we don't know. We can't take his word for it. This is in a court of law that's been accepted and verified by the FBI. So Aruba needs to take action, period. So let me ask you this, Carol Robinson. Regardless of how it comes out tomorrow, what do you believe the story is going to be? Because I don't see Jorn Vandersloot ever telling the truth.

Because number one, he never has told the truth. And number two, telling the truth would open him up to a murder charge in Aruba. I still think he's going to, I think one of the stories he's told along the way was that, you know, she fell and hit her head. And I still believe that that's going to be what he says happened if he doesn't just blame the whole thing on his dad, because his dad is not here to defend himself. But how could he blame it all on his dad? I'm trying to figure that out. You know what, Joe Scott, you've been there from the get go. How could he blame his dad for the death? Well, he's already thrown his dad under the bus with, you know, this story. You know, I was reading the supplement report, the affidavit that the FBI agent had written. And, you know, he says, well, yeah, dad, dad took her remains to this house and essentially

buried her within the house in that location. So, you already crossed the Rubicon, I guess, with that. We know that he's a scumbag, all right? He's willing to say anything about his dad. But here's another perspective on this. I think, Nancy, I find interesting. As you know, it's very frustrating. You know firsthand going down there to that place to try to get anything done. Aruba is going to step into the spotlight tomorrow, more so than ever before, I think.

It's one thing to have FBI agents showing up down there, having to deal with the consulate and all those sorts of things that come along with an investigation. But now they're entering onto the stage and they are going to come under intense scrutiny, I think, for really the first time, because this is going this is entering into a U.S. federal court. And the one thing that does talk down there are tourist dollars. You know what? You're actually making my teeth hurt because we went through all of this when she was first kidnapped and murdered. In fact, tourism in Aruba went up from the U.S. Did you know that, Joe Scott? I screamed on air every night, I'm never going to Aruba, I'm never going to Aruba, explained why, there were all kinds of protests, and tourism went up, Joe Scott.

It actually went up. I hate to dash your dreams. Oh, there's nothing dashed. But I have to say that they're entering onto a big stage here. You mean the federal court? Yes, I do. I hope you're right. Cheryl McCollum, I don't think he's right.

I don't think that anyone is going to not go to Aruba just because we're not. The only reason I put one toe on Aruba with you and with Beth is because I thought I could help Beth Holloway. I thought I could help her. And I think we did help her to a certain extent with some answers. But, you know, speaking of him blaming the father who is now dead because he gave him a heart attack, Cheryl, isn't it true that we learned when we were in Aruba just recently that the judge, Judge Vandersloot, Jorn Vandersloot's father, was at the casino with him the night he met Natalie? He was. He's sitting diagonal from Natalie while they're sitting there gambling. You can see your hand and Natalie, but he's right across the table. Not only did he know his son, he knew what he was doing. He was bankrolling a lot of this gambling. And keep in mind, he was 17 and he would go to bars.

He would go to the casino and everybody at every hotel, every bartender that we met knew him. They knew his routine. They knew his MO. But I will say one thing, and this was something when we were there and the police showed up trying to arrest us, you said to that officer, it has taken 17 years and you've done nothing for Natalie. But in 17 minutes, you want to arrest her mother. I thought that was pretty impactful. I was just trying to save you from getting arrested because you were running from the scene. That said, I'm never going to let you live that down.

So what do we think your VanderSloot is going to say? You might as well flip a coin because it is not going to be the truth. But take a listen to our friends at Fox News. This is what we think he might say this time. A never before seen email sent by the prime suspect in the unsolved 2005 disappearance of Natalie Holloway revealing a new piece of evidence in the case. Just days, two days after the Well, that's enough. So, you know, bottom line, Cheryl, what does that tell you? Again, how many times does somebody get to confess to committing murder and hiding a body? Even what Joe Scott was saying a minute ago about him throwing his dad under the bus, he did, but only after she was dead.

So again, he only should be looked at for homicide and then the Capo brothers and his father by helping him after the fact. They were with him. And we're learning a little bit more. Take a listen from Callahan Walsh. We have to understand that this was early on. We've seen Jordan Vandersloot change his story time and time again over the course of many years. And even the claims that he made and the reason why he's in America right now for the extortion charges and claiming that he was going to show the Holloway family where he had buried her body. So this new evidence, I hold a lot of weight in this new letter to David G., this email that him and his father had dumped her body at sea. But what's interesting is that Jordan

Van Der Sloot and his father didn't own a boat. So they would have had to borrow a boat or rent one. And if they can find that boat that they had borrowed or rented, perhaps they can find more evidence to prove that her body was dumped at sea and could eventually lead to possibly the prosecution. Because again, he's never been charged with her murder. No one has ever been charged. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Because even now, I have nightmares, flashbacks, you name it, after the murder of my fiance just before our wedding. But I know what happened to him.

I know who murdered him. She has no idea whether Natalie's remains are buried somewhere. I think about that lighthouse where Cheryl and Beth and I went when we were just in Aruba looking for clues. On the far end of the island, there was nothing there but a pack of wild dogs all starved, begging for food. It was desolate. The wind was blowing. It was just a horrible, horrible thought to think Natalie's bones were somewhere buried there. I don't know how she's gone on.

I don't know how she has managed to keep it together, Dr. Del Torre. She does it because it's necessary. She does it because she's her mother, and that's the gig. When you sign up to be the mother or father of someone, this is what you do. This is your entire reason for being. And she's fueled by the love and the desire for justice and the anger that she has for questions being unanswered. There's so much that's happening, right, that for her it's necessary. And I think that's kind of where she needs to be in order to keep going, because this would be exhausting and it would be debilitating for anybody.

Oh, and guys, if you could actually be around Beth, she's so calm and methodical and she'll tell you the story. Remember Cheryl, when she told us that she had been just like out of her mind, trying to get answers, running all around the island, begging for help, not getting any help from cops, from locals, from anybody. It's almost as if they wanted to thwart her, not just refuse to help her, but actually hurt her. And then she got to the story where she was actually going up to this little vista where there was a tiny chapel about the size of a kitchen, little bitty chapel on the top of the hill. I think the name was Buena Vista, beautiful view.

And you could, once you get to the top, you look out through mountains, it looks like onto the ocean. And she couldn't take it one more minute. She asked the cab driver to let her out at the foot of this little mountain. She got out and got, she saw a cross on the side of the road and she got out and knelt down in the dirt and started praying, please help me God. I've got to find my daughter. I've got to find my daughter. She saw another cross and she half crawled, half walked to the next cross. And same thing as it turned out, it was one of these stations to the cross walks. And they were like, I forgot, what did she say, 12 or 17 crosses going up the side of the mountain. And she would go to each one and throw herself on the cross and beg and plead and cry and scream and beat the earth.

When she got to the top, she said, this is Natalie's mother. She said an overwhelming peace came over her. And it felt like this was the first ground soil on Aruba that was not evil. And she knew at that moment that Natalie was dead. You remember that? I remember that. And I'll tell you something else. You and I sat with her in front of that chapel for probably an hour, just not moving, not talking, just being with her present in that moment.

And she turned to us at one point and she said, I know y'all think I'm crazy, but I brought her passport just in case. She said that for 10 years after Natalie went missing, she never left the house without Natalie's passport in case she got the call anywhere in the world that Natalie had been found. It's just been a horrible, horrible thing for her. And I hate to see her dashed tomorrow in court when Vandersloot lies again. Listen to our friends at WVTM, our Cut 118. Of course, Vandersloot has claimed to know where Holloway's body was hidden before. He offered similar intel to Holloway's mother in 2010 in exchange for a quarter of a million dollars.

Ultimately, though, his tips proved false and he was charged with wire fraud. Former U.S. Attorney Jay Towne believes this new offer should come with more credibility. I think those will be personal conversations with the Holloway family where they can at least understand why the Bureau and the prosecutors believed this particular admission. Carol Robinson, what are the particulars of tomorrow morning? How's it going to go down? Well, we don't really know all the details yet. We just know that he will appear with his public defenders, you know, in court at 930. We expect him, obviously, to stand up and issue a guilty plea and be sentenced. And I do not have any information

on what that sentence may be. So everything is still shrouded in mystery irv brandt let me just ask you this or if you've been around the world hunting down felons do you think there's any hope that aruba after tomorrow will prosecute him for natalie's murder. None. Agreed. It's what Joe Scott was saying earlier about putting the pressure on Aruba. Aruba doesn't want pressure. If they bring charges, extradite them,

it's just going to keep it in the news. They won't do it. There's no way they're going to do it. I thought maybe Irv Brandt, you might throw me a bone here and let me think there's a chance he'll get prosecuted for murder. But you're saying no, it's never going to happen, right? Is that what you're telling me? That's exactly what I'm saying.

He's going to be sentenced. He's going to go back to Peru. And Aruba's going to hope that he dies in prison in Peru. And then that's going to be the end of it. We'll see about that. I'll see you in court tomorrow morning. Goodbye, friends. It's not very often in my line of business that I get to announce happy news, A happy first birthday to wonderful, brilliant, sweet baby Charlie. The joy of his mom and dad's life, Kate and Zach Abrams. In this world where we report, investigate, follow criminal cases every day. I love this photo and I love being able to say happy first birthday, baby Charlie. You are so loved. Happy birthday.