Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Jury convicts 'America's Dad' Bill Cosby on sex attack: WHY ISN'T HE IN JAIL?

Episode Date: May 1, 2018

Bill Cosby is still living in luxury in his own home despite having been found guilty on 3 counts of indecent sexual assault. Cosby faces up to 30 years in prison once the judge who presided over his trial sentences him. “I’m not simply going to lock him up right now," Judge O’Neill said after the guilty verdicts. Nancy Grace assembles experts to discuss the case, including lawyer Anne Bremner, psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshal,  juvenile judge & lawyer Ashley Willcott, and RadarOnline reporter Alexis Tereszcuk. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Why fork out thousands of dollars to a private eye when you can do the job yourself? Go to truthfinder.com slash Nancy and enter any name to get started crime stories with nancy grace on sirius xm triumph channel 132 guilty that is what a jury says about quote quote, America's funny man, not so funny anymore, Bill Cosby. But the outrage right now is not only is this guy convicted essentially of rape, he's still walking free. Hello. I have tried. I don't even know how many cases I've tried. Over 100.

And investigated and prosecuted literally close to 10,000 cases. I have never once ever seen a defendant convicted of rape or aggravated sexual assault or battery. And when it's not done, they don't get fingerprint handcuffed and let out the back door to J-A-I-L, jail. Why is he at home on his comfy sofa with his wife having a personal chef make him up a low-fat omelet this morning? What's happening? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us. And I want justice. I don't want a rubber stamp on the jury verdict. I want this guy in jail like every other rapist is. Straight out to Alexis Tereschuk, investigative reporter with RadarOnline.com. First of all, let's start at the very beginning. Let's take a listen to our friend and colleague. You know what?

She's an acquired taste. I'll give you that much. Gloria Allred. First of all, I want to thank the jury. Justice has been done. And we're very, very happy and proud of this result. Beginning in late 2014, the accusers of Mr. Cosby, whom I represented, began to speak out. It took a great deal of courage. In the beginning, many were not believed. that finally we can say women are believed and not only on hashtag me too, but in a court of law where they were under oath, where they testify truthfully,

where they were attacked, where they were smeared, where they were denigrated, where there were attempts to discredit them. And after all is said and done, WHERE THEY WERE ATTEMPTS TO DISCREDIT THEM. AND AFTER ALL IS SAID AND DONE, WOMEN WERE FINALLY BELIEVED. AND WE THANK THE JURY SO MUCH FOR THAT. AND THEY WERE BELIEVED AFTER THE PROSECUTION MET THEIR HIGH STANDARD OF HAVING TO PROVE GUILT BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. met their high standard of having to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And the jury in this second criminal trial found that they believed women.

And I'm the happiest I have been about any court decision in 42 years. Guys, that's saying a lot for Gloria Allred to actually say she's happy because, you know, I know Gloria. I love Gloria, but I don't see her happy that much. She's always on a mission. And to hear her say, I'm happy, that takes a lot. What I still don't get is why this guy, Bill Cosby,

multi, multimillionaire, is at his luxury townhome right now kicked back instead of in jail. Let's start at the beginning. Alexis Tereszczuk, investigative reporter, RadarOnline.com. What's happening, Alexis? So Bill Cosby was found guilty by a jury, guilty on three counts of sexual assault, assaulting Andrea Constance with intent to harm by drugging her. This was not something that was a spur of the moment violent attack. This was something that he had plotted and planned. He had to get the drugs and slip them to her and attack her. So this jury, second jury, first one was a mistrial because they could not agree on it was a hung jury. This jury came back with a guilty verdict in one day. They deliberated for one day. They

told the judge, this guy is guilty. There was no hemming and hawing. It wasn't 15 days of back and forth. And they had one question for the judge. They wanted to know the definition of consent. And that is what they found him guilty of, that she could not consent to the assault. Joining me also with Alexis Torres, Chuck with RadarOnline.com, Ashley Wilcott, Atlanta juvenile judge, lawyer, advocate, and founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com, renowned psychoanalyst out of LA, Dr. Bethany Marshall, and high-profile lawyer out of Seattle, Ann Bremner. You know, Ashley, the defense is still on the attack. And I get what they're doing.

They're still attacking these women. They're going on all sorts of talk shows and media outlets that can't get to Cosby. So the next best thing are his lawyers, and they're still attacking the victims. Now, his conviction on aggravated indecent assault is after a very unique set of facts, okay? A sealed civil deposition that came open. In that deposition, he admits to using quaaludes as i understand it he had a mistrial to his benefit in the first case now let me understand at this

juncture ashley why is he still his lawyers going on tv and trashing the victims i think there are two reasons i think number one, Nancy, is because they are going to set this up for an appeal. And of course, trashing the victims doesn't do anything for appeal. Appeal is about what happened at court. But I think they're absolutely going to appeal these verdicts. The second thing is, this is a man whose reputation is the most important thing to him. I think he would lie, cheat and steal to protect his reputation. So he sixes lawyers on continue to go after the victims because thing to him. I think he would lie, cheat, and steal to protect his reputation. So he sticks his lawyers on, continue to go after the victims

because they're wrong, I'm right, because it's his reputation. Well, I'll tell you what they're going to go for. Ann Bremner, along with Ashley Wilcott, both lawyers, and what they're going to go after is the fact that similar transactions, as we call them in the law, were brought in. What does that mean? That means that while Cosby was not being tried, was not on trial for other alleged rapes, some of those cases came in at this trial where Andrew Konstat was the victim.

Why? Because they're fingerprint crimes. He says, I want to help you on your career. Come out to my hotel room. We'll be fine. Let me call my wife. Here, have this pill. It'll relax you. You feel bad? Do you feel anxious? You got a fine let me call my wife here have this pill to relax you

you feel bad you feel anxious you got a menstrual cramp here i have this bam they're out because it was um like a roofie the next thing you know they wake up they have been molested same mo over and over right down to the house coat the robe the plush robe he wears with a hat every time. It's gross. So the point is, Ann, that those cases, similars, tend to prove the case in chief. That's the only way that kind of evidence can come in, Ann, and that's what the defense is going to attack. Exactly, Nancy, and it's called similar transaction or common scheme or plan. Sometimes with respect to identity, they call it like the Mark of Zorro, which you almost have here. So similar, identical in terms of the way he acted in every one of these cases. And it also goes to lack of intent and lack of mistake, motive, et cetera. That's exactly what

they're going to go after. They're going to say, you know, he was basically tried on other cases that weren't proved beyond a reasonable doubt. And that was unfair in this instance, because it should have been in trial only relating to this victim. But I don't know how far they'll get with that, Nancy. I just think that, you know, this has been litigated at length in the first trial and also here. He has one of the best lawyers out there, Tom Mezzaro. And I think you and I both seen him in court in the Michael Jackson case and also in the Blake case, and he's very able. But the other interesting thing is with the judge letting him out on bail, you have to wonder, does the judge think he has a good appeal?

I don't know. Well, as a matter of fact, let's take a listen to Tom Mesereau, defense attorney for Michael Jackson, who showed up in court in his pajamas. Mesereau still won the case. Representative Robert Blake, who totally murdered his wife, got a not guilty on him, too. Didn't work with Cosby. Listen to Mesereau. We are very disappointed by the verdict. We don't think Mr. Cosby is guilty of anything. And the fight is not over.

Thank you. Are you pointing up appeal, sir? Yes. Yes. Yes, very strongly. Is Mr. Cosby prepared to go to prison? Andrew, can we have a word with you? Mr. Cosby, are you prepared to go to prison, sir?

That was Tom Mesereau thinking he could work his usual charm and magic on this jury. Well, it didn't work. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst out of L.A., Dr. Bethany, now the morning after and the sour grapes the defense are chewing on right now, they're whining that it was an unfair trial and that it's because of the Me Too movement. All the women coming forward right now claiming that they have been assaulted or raped, They're whining that it was an unfair trial and that it's because of the Me Too movement. All the women coming forward right now claiming that they have been assaulted or raped. Frankly, I'm pretty sure most of them had.

Right. Okay. Because the reality is that about one in four women around you have been assaulted. Right. They may not talk about it. They may not mention it. But me it's happened okay I hope that doesn't happen with my daughter Lucy but long story short I mean they're pointing the finger everywhere except to at the person that deserves to have the finger pointed and that's Cosby

that piece of crap exactly except towards Bill Cosby with his plush robe and his hat. You know, I was reading some research last night and I thought this was interesting. When you take all rape victims who come forward, only two to 4% are malingering or making up the story. So the vast majority of women who are brave enough to come forward are not making up the details of their assault. They are telling the truth. And it's true Me Too may have a bit of an overcorrective

measure on society, but we need an overcorrection. The jury is voting the conscience of how we feel in the United States now. The jury feels how we feel. These women were not only victimized by Cosby when he gave them medication, gave them Quaaludes, Roofies, and then raped them. They are continuing to be violated by him through his attorney, through his publicist. It's like the abuse never stops. Something that has just happened. Gloria Allred was at an event. Allred, who has represented a lot of these women civilly against Cosby. She was at the Daytime Emmy Awards.

And she called out Bill Cosby, guilty, guilty, guilty. And everybody started booing her. Why are they booing her? This guy is a rapist. You know what let it happen to your daughter then fix yourself to get up there and start booing her i i i don't get it now this as we are getting reports that cosby is quote mentally preparing himself for jail what he should have been preparing himself for jail the first time he raped somebody. Dr. Bethany Marshall, what about that?

It speaks to the fact that he does not think he did anything wrong. He's never mentally prepared himself for jail. Those are just words from his handlers. You know, he actually snickered in court. That's what I find so surprising. He laughed as if he thought the proceedings were funny. He's never really been called to task for any of his bad acts. I even think going through the first trial for him felt

like he was on stage getting the attention again. And that's so typical of people who have a criminal mindset that they confuse the court proceedings with being back in the center of attention again. So I think for someone like this, there's no way to prepare for jail. He's not going to realize he's going to jail until he's actually behind bars. That's when it's going to hit him. You know what? For those of you that don't believe this guy is guilty, I can't even imagine who that is. You must have been living under a rock or in a cave.

Take a listen to supermodel Janice Dickinson. Describe what happened to her. This is her talking with me on HLN. I can't breathe because of Bill Cosby. What do you mean? I can't breathe because I haven't slept in weeks. And, you know, I just, you know, with everything that's going on, I haven't been able to breathe like the whole nation is doing right now, protesting.

I am protesting because of the unresolved issues due to rape from Bill Cosby. I'm just starting to exhale and I will say this, I sobbed all weekend, not just for me, for what's going on with these other women. I'm in huge gratitude to the Los Angeles Police Department. Thank you guys and gals out there. You know, it's about time that this guy gets his cup off. There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble for people with something to hide. Have you ever had a bad feeling about somebody? Maybe suspected your partner's cheating?

Maybe worried about your online reputation? If you answer yes to any of those questions, you may need Truthfinder. Public records are only recently easily available online. Before websites like Truthfinder, you'd most likely have to visit a courthouse to get that information. Now, it's as simple as entering a name. Truthfinder sifts through millions of public records from all over the country, assembling them into one easy-to-read report. Search the names of somebody you know. You could find criminal and arrest records, bankruptcies, contact information, social, dating profiles, financial assets, and a lot more. Why fork out thousands to a private investigator when you can do the job

yourself? Everybody you know has something to hide. Now you can root out the most dangerous people before you become the next victim. It's not just used to bust bad people. Truthfinder helps Americans reunite with friends, family, even people who served with them in the military. It's never been so easy to find the truth. Go to truthfinder.com slash Nancy and enter any name to get started. It is my right as a woman, as a parent, to protect women out there worldwide and to protect daughters and granddaughters, sisters and mothers, okay? It is my right, and I want every woman out there to please hear my words.

We've got to stop this man. He will keep doing it. Bill Cosby, quote, America's dad. He's not my daddy. Mm-mm. I don't even like him put in that phrase convicted on three counts of ag assault and what i want to know this morning is why the defense is still on a vendetta against the victims trashing them on every news media outlet possible and he is sitting at home on a

pillow right now wearing his beloved velour house robe, probably having a cigarette with his personal chef making him an omelet. Why is that happening? And now to Ann Bremner, high-profile Seattle lawyer, why am I hearing that he will likely stay under house arrest while his case goes up on appeal? That's called an appeal bond. Why isn't he going to jail? Well, he should be treated like everybody else. I mean, the criminal justice system were all supposedly created equal, especially in court, like we learned in To Kill a Mockingbird and the final arguments in that excellent book. But the fact is, remember what the judge said, Nancy, when the prosecutor said, I want to have the bail revoked right when the convictions came in? And the judge said, you never asked for this before. Cosby's shown up for every single hearing. And the judge basically said, look at his age and look at his health. I'm going to continue him on the existing bond.

And that tells you everything. On an appeal, it's going to be the same. Should he be in jail? Yes. Should he have walked out the back door in handcuffs? Yes. That would have happened in my jurisdiction, almost every jurisdiction in the United States. Is he different because of his celebrity? Is celebrity justice an oxymoron? I mean, it's very upsetting to watch this. I'm really upset, Ann. I have represented so many rape and molestation victims.

It's been long, long overdue. And this, catch this to Dr. Bethany, Dr. Bethany Marshall, L.A. psychoanalyst. Dr. Bethany, when he was being interviewed, he actually says, I think back to the time when Camille and I went to visit Nelson Mandela. He was a free man, but when we met him at Roden Island, where he had been in prison for all those years, I sat in that cell where he lived. I saw he's comparing himself to Nelson Mandela, who was a freedom fighter. What? Has he lost his mind?

That's what we call grandiosity, Nancy. And, you know, we know what that phrase does for me? It just underscores Bill Cosby's criminal mindset. Because that is such a core piece of criminality. They all think they're God. They all think that they're martyrs in prison and that they have been misunderstood. And just as he tried to seduce his victims, he's trying to seduce the public into believing things about him. This is how vast his offending pattern is. And I want to go back to his team who's trash-talking the victims. In a way, he's turned them into perpetrators too. He's a perpetrator. The people on his team are now perpetrators, continuing to put down women who have been vindicated. No, this is absolutely

no Nelson Mandela. I'm just sick about it. Alexis Tereschuk, now I'm furious with the judge. It's Montgomery County Judge Stephen T. O'Neill, who did not remand Cosby to jail and refused to revoke his million-dollar bail, despite the prosecution begging for that revocation. Quote, I'm not simply going to lock him up right now, O'Neill says. Why? Why not? He's been convicted. And not only was he convicted, the prosecution asked when they were saying to the judge, he is a flight risk. This man has hundreds of millions of dollars. He has access to a private, they said he has a private plane. Cosby yells out in the courtroom using the third person. He says he does not have a private plane, asshole, to a judge after you've

been convicted of a crime. And what does the judge do? Nothing. He lets him say that. If any other person had screamed out and called the judge a word, they would have been hauled off to jail on that moment. But not Bill Cosby. He got out. And there was such an outcry about how cushy it was you know he'd been carrying this cane and looking so feeble every day that he walked into court pretending he was blind he walked out of court holding that cane in the air like a victory symbol proving that he was lying the entire time i know it did you notice that ashley wilcott uh ashley wilcott with me atlanta juvenile judge and lawyer founder of childcrimewatch. Ashley, not only that, I've watched him walking up and down the steps to his private plane. The one he said he didn't have. And he doesn't have anybody helping him. Yeah,

liar, liar, pants on fire, right? So there's a lot going on. I think the ego is definitely an aspect of Bill Cosby that's causing him to say these things. But keep this in mind too, Nancy, this is what bothers me. All right, he has means that many defendants don't have. And that's what concerns me. If he's out on bond and others in similar circumstances in this particular jurisdiction wrongly let these defendants out on bond, The issue is, even if he doesn't own a private plane, guess what? He sure can't access one. He can rent one. He can lease one. He has got the financial resources to disappear. I'm just sick right now of Stephen T. O'Neill,

the so-called judge, who seems to me to be complicit with Bill Cosby. These women, over 60, six zero of them, claim to have been raped and or molested by Bill Cosby. And now they're getting raped in the court system because O'Neill, this judge, will not, even after a jury finds Cosby guilty, will not send him to jail. Listen to Lise Lott Lubin describing to Dr. Phil how after luring her to his hotel, Cosby drugged her with a drink. The year was 1988. The owner of the modeling agency I worked for called me and said that Bill Cosby would like to meet with me. I was very excited to go and see him. I was starstruck.

I felt invincible. I couldn't believe that he wanted to see me. I got to the hotel. He was a gentleman and he was respectful and kind and he seemed very interested in me, and that made me feel very secure in seeing him again. He was the jello pudding man. He was everyone's dad. The next time that we met, I had asked if my mother and sister could join us, and he said yes. So we all went up to the Elvis suite. We had a great time. We took pictures. My mother trusted Bill completely. But Lisa claims he ended up betraying

that trust during a mentoring session in his hotel suite. Bill Cosby called me out of the blue, and he said, can you come by and see me? And I was like, of course. I went up to his hotel, and I was alone. He talked about, let me see what type of acting skills you have. I want you to improv. And as I tried to do improv, he fixed a drink, and then he brought it to me.

It was a brown liquid, and it looked like a shot. I told him I didn't drink. He said that drink and then he brought it to me. It was a brown liquid and it looked like a shot. I told him I didn't drink. He said that this was going to relax me so that the lines would flow out a lot easier. So I did drink it. He made a second drink and had me drink the second drink as well. I noticed myself getting a little dizzy. Bill had sat down on the edge of the couch. He said, come over here and have a seat. He had his legs open, and when I sat down, I was sitting down in between his legs with my back to his crotch.

He started to stroke my hair back in a petting motion like this. The last things I remember is just feeling the strokes on my head. After that, I don't remember anything else. Well, Lisa has not spoken publicly about her allegations and is coming forward for the first time right now, this minute, today. How do you feel about coming out and talking about this right now, right here?

I was not interested in talking about it out loud. One of my close friends who's a detective in Raleigh, Catherine, she told me to file a report. I wanted the police to be able to just confront him and let him know that I know he did something wrong. You know if you were on the witness stand, and this is part of your point about not filing the report, not filing charges, you don't really know what happened.

Do you know if he raped you? Do you know if he molested you in some way? Do you know, you don't really know what did happen. No. You know what? To Alexis Tereschuk, RadarOnline.com, there are so many women, over 60 of them, claiming they've been raped. What's the holdup with this judge? This judge has been under fire this entire second trial. You know, the defense called him out saying that his wife was an advocate for sexual assault victims and that he should recuse himself. And he said, oh, no, I can be completely independent. So I think that gave people hope that he wasn't going to back down, that he was on the side of the victims.

But then he turns around and doesn't give him any jail time. So people are wondering if perhaps he really was hiding the way that he felt. And he showed his true colors by not putting Bill Cosby in jail. So what he did is the verdict was Thursday. Then the very next day, he had to issue another order saying, oh, maybe I didn't make it clear in court that Bill Cosby has to stay in his house. Arrest can sometimes mean you can go out if you get prior permission. But he says that Bill Cosby has to stay in his house. House arrest can sometimes mean you can go out if you get prior permission. But he says that Bill Cosby has to stay in the house. The meetings have to come to him unless it's an emergency. He has to live.

So he's maybe trying to correct his mistake. Wait, wait, wait. How's that correcting anything? High-profile lawyer Ann Brimmer out of Seattle. House arrest. He lives in a mansion with a personal chef. Everybody always comes to him. Why is that? Why is that a punishment? Well, exactly. I mean, I'd love to live like that.

And but the fact is, is, you know, this judge, maybe he's trying to like lean the other way, you know, to show that he's not biased. I don't know. But I think everyone's scratching their heads, especially lawyers and especially advocates like you, Nancy, that handle cases with rape victims. I represent a victim of Bill Cosby right here in Seattle. She's number 61. She's not even part of this case. The statute has run out here long ago in Washington on criminal and civil. And, you know, she was a model. He groomed her parents from a small town. He offered to pay for part of her schooling. He offered to speak at her graduation. This story goes on and on and on. And it's just appalling that this judge can't look around the horizon of the Bill Cosby devastation and say enough already. He's going to jail. What do we know about the judge? Out to Alexa Tereschuk. What can you tell me about this guy? I mean, I know a little bit. I know his name is Judge Stephen T. O'Neill.

He was the presiding judge at Cosby's first trial where there was a mistrial. And by the way, a hung jury is a mistrial. That means the first trial is aborted. It can happen for a number of reasons. A hung jury means they can't reach a verdict. There could be an error in court. I remember I was trying a guy one time for child rape, and he was running a child prostitution ring, and I called him a pimp in opening statements. I got a mistrial in my opening statement. Well, don't worry. Don't worry. Don't worry. We let that jury go. I took, I grabbed

the lead detective by the ear and dragged him down to the grand jury room. I said, don't move. The grand jury was in process. I took him in there and I had another, I re-indicted him and had a pimp charge added. We struck the jury again that Thursday, and he got convicted. So, long story short, a hung jury can happen for a number of reasons. This is the same judge that sat on that jury as well. He was appointed in 2002 by a Republican governor in Montgomery County. He was elected to a 10-year term in 2004. Why Alexis Therese Chuck, Ashley Wilcott, Dr. Bethany Marshall, and Bremner, why is he not throwing Cosby in jail?

Alexis, what do you know? Well, one of the things that we know when we cover these celebrity trials is that these judges are really savvy. It's not the same crime in any way, shape, or form. But when Teresa Giudice from The Real Housewives of New Jersey was on trial, the judge said, you know, I know about your life. I have read this. I've watched you on television. I know that things are not adding up here. Same with Abby Lee Miller from Dance Moms. That judge said, I was watching TV last night and I saw you on a commercial. There's no way you're bankrupt. So how is this judge not knowing the

cover of New Yorker magazine had 43 women on it? There is no way this judge doesn't know about Bill Cosby's criminal past and that he should have been much more aware of the tricks that have been pulled. And they tried during this entire trial. There was a report that one of the jurors had said, told a group, oh, I believe he's guilty. Don't we all believe he's guilty? The judge brought people in, questioned him, let him go. That juror was still on this jury. So people really felt like all along that this judge, at the time, they thought that he was very pro-prosecution.

Now people are thinking that he was handing Cosby's team an appeal. Right now, everyone asking why this judge refuses to send Bill Cosby, America's dad, I said that it tasted like a dirt sandwich. America's funny man also tasted like a dirt sandwich, to jail when the guilty verdict was announced in court for, quote, America's funny man, Bill Cosby, the victims ran out of the courtroom bending over in half in tears. Why? Listen to Janice Baker Kinney. I began living in Reno and working at Harrah's sometime around the summer of 1980.

I worked my way up from Kino Runner to Cocktail Waitress to Barback and then I began bartending at Harrah's in October of 1981. I worked predominantly in one of the showrooms and was often acquainted with many of the performers. Many of the bands performing in the smaller showroom were booked for two weeks at a time, and the headlining acts were there for approximately one week. It was not unusual to get to know the performers and for them to get to know the regular staff that worked the shows, since these acts were sometimes booked more than once a year. When the headliners were booked at Harris, I recall that they had the option of staying at the hotel in a penthouse suite or a home owned by Harris. I know Mr.

Cosby chose to stay at the house because that is where I was sexually assaulted by him in May of 1982. I had been at that house a couple of times previous to that night, invited there for after-show parties. I remember going to one party hosted by Wayne Newton and it wasn't out of the ordinary. So when a friend said that Bill Cosby invited her to the house for a pizza party, I didn't think it was strange and I agreed to meet her there. I did however think it was strange, and I agreed to meet her there. I did, however, think it was strange when I arrived and my friend Judy was ringing the front door bell holding the pizza. When I joined her at the front door and Bill Cosby opened the door, it took me a few moments to

realize that this was a pizza party for just three. I thought I would have a beer and maybe a slice of pizza and hang out for a little bit and then be on my way. These are the moments that I can remember. Bill Cosby offered me a pill, and I took one from him. He then told me to take two, that it would be fine. And I guess I thought, it must be fine and I guess I thought it must be okay. Bill Cosby said it was so I began to play a game of backgammon with Mr. Cosby. We were in the kitchen or dining room area at that time and I remember

telling him this game isn't fair and he asked me why and I said because I can't see the board anymore and then I passed out. I woke up sometime later hearing voices and it was my friend Judy leaving. I was now in the living area on the couch with my jeans unzipped and my blouse was open. Bill Cosby came and sat down with me on the couch and asked me if I was feeling okay. He had me leaning against him on the couch while his arm was around me, and it was then he put his hands inside my open blouse. I remember him then helping me up the stairs to a bedroom.

I was in no condition to leave, to drive, to say anything. I was so humiliated that I had passed out and I didn't know what had happened. He had assured me that it was okay to take the pills, but obviously it was not. I woke up the next morning naked, in bed with a naked Bill Cosby. He was touching my belly and on my genital area. The phone rang and it seemed to be a business call so I got dressed and went downstairs to leave. I was mortified at what had happened. He came down and met me at the front door and as he opened the door for me he stopped it part of the way before I could get out. And he said these exact words.

This is between you and me. And he put his finger to his mouth like a shh sign. I told him I was not planning on alerting the media, and I left. That was Janice Baker Kinney speaking at a press conference. I don't get it. The women are bent over double outside the courthouse. And Ann Bremner, Seattle lawyer, what the judge doesn't know that he's not he doesn't watch TV. He doesn't read the internet. But I don't get it. He doesn't know the pain Cosby has caused. He doesn't somehow know about the 60 women that he molested allegedly and he lets this guy go home to his brownstone well exactly

i was even thinking about the michael jackson trial which you and i covered nancy at length jay leno one night on tv said he had the judge's gavel and the next morning the judge judge meffle said has anyone seen my gavel he'd watched watched it. It was about Michael Jackson the night before. You know they see all of this. You know they watch all of this. We all know all of this. It's in the zeitgeist. It's out there everywhere.

I mean, anyone that's missed Me Too, like you said, is either living in a cave or under a rock. He knows all of this. And despite all of that, he's basically said, you can go home. I'm not worried about you. You're not a flight risk, et cetera, et cetera. Now, he talks about his age and he talks about his health.

Does that mean he's basically going to say you're going to continue on your bond on appeal, which could take years? And at the end of the day, is he saying he's going to get probation? We have to look ahead just what he's telegraphed by his words of the other day bill cosby has the smuggest old black man public persona that i hate pull your pants up black people i was on tv in the 80s i could talk down to you because i had a successful sitcom yeah it was great women, Bill Cosby, so... Kind of brings you down a couple of notches. I don't curse on stage, but, yeah, you're a rapist, so... I can take you saying lots of on... Bill Cosby himself if you weren't a rapist.

I don't know what I'm doing by telling you. I guess I wanted to at least make it weird for... ...Bad Boys Cosby Show reruns. Whose image? For the most part, it's f***ing public Teflon image. I've done this bit on stage, and people don't believe me. People think I'm making it up. I'm like, Bill Cosby did a lot of rape allegations.

No, you did. No. No. They called me Captain Kick-Em-Out. No. That is upsetting. If you didn't know about it, trust me. When you leave here, Google Bill Cosby Rape.

It's not funny. This shit has more results than Hannibal Buress. Alexis Tereschuk, investigative reporter, RadarOnline.com. How many years ago was that? That was Hannibal Buress, stand-up comedian, outright calling Bill Cosby a rapibal burris stand-up comedian outright calling bill cosby a rapist during a stand-up and luckily you know somebody cell phone videoed it and it's been out there forever it was in 2014 but also you know tina fey made a joke about bill cosby being a rapist on 30 rock judd apatow the comedian i, but also a producer of Knocked Up,

This is 40. He has been talking about this for decades because he said he knew women that were personal victims. And I don't even think these are women that have come forward. So there are more than the 60 women that have come forward. And so these very powerful people in Hollywood have known this for a long time. And they have all subtly put it into different things over the country. And you find out it's in, you know, so many people knew about it. It's in the same fancy vacation home over and over and over again. It's the same suite in Vegas over and over again. It's the same hotel near the university over and over again. He had an MO that he followed very closely. And women after women fell victims. He manipulated their families.

Everybody was involved. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, L.A. psychoanalyst. So how can the judge not know? How can he look at himself, this Judge O'Neill, how can he look at himself in the mirror and not send Cosby to jail. You know, not only that, Nancy, but when, as Alexis put it so beautifully, same hotel room, same offending pattern, same manner of grooming the victim's families, same types of victims. It goes on and on. How is Bill Cosby going to stop himself if he's not in jail? He's going to be unable. He will be just as easily able to offend from his brownstone, as you put it, as he would if he's walking out on the streets.

A compulsion doesn't stop just because a sentence has been handed down. Well, I mean, but think about it. Think about what Alexis was just saying to you, Ashley Wolcott, his brownstone, that's where some of the alleged rapes occurred. Right. And, you know, the horrific thing in all of this is that I think the judge has an, um, an approach, right? Because I'm on the bench of, it's not a big deal. I mean, it's horrific that a judge is acting in a way that to me sends the message to all victims all over the world. Hey, so somebody can be convicted of this and it's okay.

They can still go home. They have, you know, he's older, he has health issues. It's fine. He can go home. It's not a big deal. I mean, that's what's really frightening in this case. The other thing is he put them on ankle monitor. So what?

I have that as a sentencing option. Ankle monitor doesn't mean a person cannot leave their home. It only means they get tracked if they leave their home. Take a listen to Bill Cosby talking to Larry King on CNN about how Spanish fly could help guys seduce women. I mean, really. Spanish fly was the thing that all boys from age 11 on up to death, we will still be searching for Spanish fly. And what was the old story was, if you took a little drop,

it was on the head of a pin. And you put it in a drink. It doesn't make any difference. And the girl would drink it and hello, America. And you hear laughter in the background. Laughter, Dr. Bethany Marshall. And not only laughter, he references boys age 11 to the end of their lives using Spanish fly. 11-year-olds. That gives us insight

into the perverse nature of Bill Cosby's mind. Can you imagine an 11-year-old drugging a girl? It's not just the laughter. Every aspect of that soundbite or that piece is off. It would be interesting to know when Bill Cosby began to offend, and it will be interesting to know how he continues to offend now that he's remanded to his home rather than to a jail. He will offend.

He'll pick up the phone. He'll bring in an assistant. He'll start. I'm sure there's somebody on his radar, some young woman whose family he's grooming. He has a phone. He has a cell phone. He has a computer. He will continue to stalk them.

It is not going to stop just because the verdict has been handed down. Judge Stephen O'Neill allowing Bill Cosby to remain free on a million dollar bond until his sentencing. A sentencing date has not been announced as of right now. Now, under the law, it's supposed to happen within 90 days of conviction. Now, if all the parties agree, it can happen after that. But why are we waiting three more months? The next legal battle will be at the sentencing. Now, if Cosby is sentenced to prison, he should go directly behind bars. But many people believe his lawyers will argue he should be out on bond during the appeal.

An appeal bond is hardly ever granted. Would you agree with that, Amber Remner? Absolutely. And, I mean, the fact of the matter is, in this case, when we look at sentencing, we can use concepts like retribution and deterrence and restitution, you know, these kinds of things. So why is a judge giving him basically a free ride and telegraphing that he's not going to look at any of those things at sentencing other than the defendant himself and his ill health, you know, quote unquote, and his age? Stop. The guy you know, 80. But stop. The guy's in perfect health.

He's got access to the best doctors in the world, the best medicine, the best workouts, private massages, private trainers, personal chefs. I mean, and the blind thing, he can see when he wants to. Well, absolutely. And the fact of the matter is, 80 isn't that old anymore. I'm not going to say it's the new 60 or whatever. He can see well enough to unzip his pants, Ashley Wilcott. Exactly. Touche, Nancy, as always.

I was expecting a little more of an answer than yet, but hold on. Sorry about that. I mean, it's unfathomable the number of victims. And I just go back to I don't think whatever a court sentences him to and imposes, he's never going to believe he did anything wrong he is going to reoffend we just heard that from another one of your guests so it's incumbent on the court to protect everybody out there in the world and the courts failed to do that by letting him out take a listen to carla frigno now this is the incredible hulk lou Ferrigno's wife, speaking to me here on Crime Stories. We were playing pool. And so he played first with my date.

And then guess who won? Bill won. And he said, okay, well, now I play with Carla. Now it's getting on to be around midnight. It's getting late. And I picked up the pool, Hugh, and I'm playing. And suddenly I looked up and I said, where did your wife go? And he goes, oh, she probably went to bed.

I said, oh, okay. And then I shot another thing and I'm doing good at this game and then I look up and I go, well, where's my date? And he goes, oh, I don't know. He probably went to the bathroom or something. And so we played the game. We did it. He beat me. And I took my pool cue and my back was to him. And I turned around and I put it on the table. And when I turned back around, he lunged me. He just lunged right, I mean, just on me. He jumped me. And I was in shock.

And I pushed him like with all the strength I had. I tried, and then he grabbed me, and he kissed me right in the mouth. And I just, I kicked, I pushed away from him. And I got away from him, and I was like, oh. And I mean, it was so awful. And then I looked up, and those eyes, he looked like the devil. He didn't look like the fun, happy guy anymore. He looked like the devil.

And I said, for a second, I go, I just, I sat there for a second, and I looked at him. And I was a tough girl. I grew up. But in those days, I was a tough street girl. I knew how to take care of myself, and men were always trying to molest me. My whole life, ever since I was like five years old, said I always got away. So I started running down the hallway. He lived in a very large house on the flats of Beverly Hills.

And I went running down the hallway. And just as I'm running down the hallway, who comes out of the door? My date. So I looked at my date and I said, I'm leaving. I want you to take me home now, right now. And he did. And I never even talked to him about it. I just went completely silent, got in the car, he took me and dropped me off. And that was that. So that was my

experience. And I got away. And out of the supposedly 65 women that have come forward, or I don't know how many I think it was that, but they, they, I, I just, I just got away. I, there was no way. And the reason I got away was because I didn't, I didn't drink anything. You know, I think our friend Gloria Allred says it all on the courthouse steps. Listen. Tom Mesereau, you tried, you failed. The personal attacks did not work. Bill Cosby, three words for you. Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! Ann Bremner, Bethany Marshall, Ashley Wilcott, Alexis Derezchuk.

Ladies, thank you. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend.