Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Jussie Smollett: Reality Test, True Character Under Fire?

Episode Date: September 13, 2025

Jussie Smollett, hate crime hoaxer,  is participating in Special Forces: World's Toughest Test Season 4. It's  a reality competition show on Fox where stars undergo military-style training and extreme challenges. This appearance marks Smollett's return to the network and public life following the fallout from his 2019 hate crime allegations. The new season premieres September 25 and is set in Morocco.   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Oh, my stars. Does it never end with this poser, this felon? Oh, my stars. Jesse Smollett, remember him? The race hoaxer. who claimed he was attacked because he is black and gay,

and when police arrived at his luxury apartment, he still had a rope around his neck. It was all a lie. Oh, my stars! He's getting rewarded. Special Forces, the world's toughest test, unveils its celebrity contestants, competing in the fourth season

of the quasi-military training reaction, show. It's premiering on Fox and Hulu, and fans are sick at the inclusion of the hate crime hoaxer Jesse Smollett. Oh, my stars. With Smollett wisecracking on Instagram, it was at this moment I said, I should have just done The Masked Singer. Well, okay, I'd say quite awesome. often, I've seen it all. But now, I really have seen it all. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. The disgraced race hoaxer swore. He was attacked by two MAGA supporters, who actually turned out to be his personal trainers, the Osor brothers. They swear under oath. He hired them to pour bleach on him.

and put a noose around his neck to bolster his celebrity profile and get a raise. Remember, he was a star of the hit series Empire. That came crashing down after he pulled off this stunt. Let me jog your recollection. Listen to this. You know, it's 2 o'clock in the morning. You're going to Subway. Sub-zero.

It's open 24 hours. Like, people kill me when they say things like that because it's like the subway is open 24 hours for a reason so that when you hungry at night and you ain't got no food you go to subway the camera facing north how is that my issue it feels like if i had said it was a muslim or a mexican or someone black i feel like the doubters would have supported me a lot much more a lot more and that says a lot about the place that we are in our country right now the fact that we have these Mongols, these people that are trying to separate us, and it's just not okay. It's just not okay.

And for all of the people, the next time that you see someone report something, maybe well after the fact that it happened, and you say to them, well, why are you wait until now? Just remember that mine was reported right away. and look what has happened. You are hearing TV star Jesse Smillett talking to superstar Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who have doubted his story that he was attacked by, I believe it started as two white males,

it changed at some point, wearing red maga hats, I believe is how the story started. That also has changed at 2 a.m. in the morning. morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop. According to Jesse Smollett, everyone knows him, big star on Empire, he was attacked, the perps through acid on him, put a rope around his neck. It's my understanding he called his manager and not 911 when he walked back home. He then called 911.

When police arrived, they found him sitting there and roughed up. and the rope still around his neck. What is the truth? If this is the truth, who attacked him. If it's not the truth, when he talks about his detractors dividing people, is he the one that's dividing people? And again, this is not about politics. I think all politicians lie every single one of them. This is about a potential hoax on police or a horrible hate crime.

With me, an all-star panel, forensics expert, and boy, do we need her now. Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction, renowned criminal attorney Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor, joining me from Atlanta. Joining me from L.A. Psychoanalyst, Dr. Bethany Marshall, and joining me right now, Crime Online.com's Ellen Killoren. E.K., let's just start at the beginning. Now, typically, when I'm hungry at 2 o'clock, I get something, anything, usually the wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it, and go back to sleep, all right? Usually I don't feel like getting up and even going to the fridge because I'm exhausted, but let's just start with a 2 a.m. subway sandwich call. Go.

Well, it does appear that Jocci Smollett had arrived to the airport in Chicago late. So I don't think this was a matter of him waking up at the middle of night and going out to the freezing cold at his subway. It was a very cold day, though, and he tells police that he's on his way home with his subway sandwich. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is in Chicago, correct? That's right. So how cold is it? We were pretty sure it was below freezing temperatures.

This was during a very, very, very cold spell in Chicago. I don't know the exact internet. Dr. Bethan, he must have been very hungry. Very hungry indeed. His tummy must have been growling at two in the morning because, you know, Chicago has that windchill factor. So if it's 20 degrees out at regular temperature, the wind starts blowing. It's 40, 50 degree below windshield.

I did my undergraduate work. there nobody goes out at two in the morning. I see, Daryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney is gnashing his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this. But that's where I always like to start, Daryl, not with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning is he wakes up, according to his story, at 2 a.m. And instead of getting leftover pizza out of the fridge or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter may be, he goes out in 40 below to get a subway sandwich. See, I start right

there. That's where I start the story. And I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I just think that's cray cray. Well, I'm wondering if subway was actually open at two in the morning. Yep, they're 24 hour. Yeah, I love subway. Although I did have a mini boycott for a weed after Jared was, you know, busted on child porn, I guess it was, their spokesperson. But long story short, Daryl Cohen, I mean, a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely nothing to do with it. I don't think it has anything to do with it. I think what has to do with it is did it or did it not happen?

And as far as I can see from all of the evidence that's been presented to me, this guy is looking for more publicity for whatever the reason. is about to get it. Boy, he's getting it all right. Okay, E.K., let's just go with the premise that it's true because the official statement from Chicago PD is he is being treated as a victim because he is a victim. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, we learned that Netflix is added again.

stirring their witch's cauldron with, quote, new evidence that the hate crime against Jesse Smollett and his story, quote, might just be a true story. As you will recall, soon after Smollett takes to the airwaves describing how he was the victim of a hate crime, Chicago PD released surveillance images of the perpetrators and identify the two as also being black. They are Nigerian-American brothers. So we see the attackers performing a, quote, hate crime on Smolet, who is black, and the perps are black.

Okay, just let that soak in for a moment. to claim a hate crime and wrap a rope around your neck as if you were threatened with lynching, nothing could be more incendiary in our American consciousness. A horrible, horrible era that our country endured all brought to the forefront by Smollett's, hoax. Then evidence came out. Smollett orchestrated his own attack and paid the brothers

nearly $4,000. Idiot wrote a check. Yeah, idiot wrote a check for his hate crime attack. What more do we know? When did you, because as you said it was an accurate account

of the timeline, valuable information, when did you make that information available to the police? We gave, we had to give the phone records, which they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone to the tech for three to four hours. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do that. Why? Because I have private pictures and videos and numbers, my partner's number, my family's number, my castmates number, my friend's numbers, my private emails, my private songs, my private voice memos, I don't know what that's going to be to hand over my phone for, and honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been

put out there. You are hearing our friend, superstar Robin Roberts, at ABC's GMA, she's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smollett. The Empire Star, everybody loves Empire, the Empire Star who claims that at 2 a.m. in the morning in Chicago, he decided he was hungry, goes out to Subway Sandwich, gets a sandwich, and is attacked by two guys that threw acid on him, or bleach, bleach, wrap a rope around his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He manages to get home and call police. He says he calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that is why they wanted the phone to confirm that he called his manager and not 911. They are being clear why they want the phone, but they want the phone. Karen Smith, joining me, forensic expert out of Florida, why do they want Jesse Smollett's phone? Listen, when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators, the best way now in the world of social media and texting is to get the phone of the victim.

You can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and all those things and text messages especially. Listen, if nothing happened, and I understand, you know, the privacy thing and there's phone numbers and emails and whatever that he didn't want release. But the police are not, they're not going to go into that. That's not their interest. Their interest is looking at communications between Jesse Smollett and these other alleged perpetrators. If there was any, if there was any, the first. phone call that he made to his manager. What time did he make it? Where did he make it from? All of those questions have to be answered, and they have to have the device. They can't just take somebody's

word for it. That's not how life works anymore. Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, felony prosecutor in the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted, I just missed him. Daryl, at the time when I first started prosecuting, we did not have DNA. We did not have cell phone pinging. We did it old school. Okay. And we did it. Now with the advent of cell phone, triangulation, GPS tracking, when he is saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is a problem to me. I don't have a problem with anything else he's saying, but when he says, fine, you know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry at 2 a.m. or goes out in sub-zero. that or below freezing that's a personal decision but when you don't hand your phone over to cops

that is a big red flag to hey with your private communications if you have had bleach poured on you beaten up have a rope tied around your neck out on the street you're handing your phone over because you want those people caught right i mean have i lost my mind on that one thing darrell Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with finding out why he would call his manager who the last time I checked was not a law enforcement person, was not a bodyguard, why would you not call the police any of us, any of us, whether we're an actor, whether we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief, whatever we may be, we are going to call the police if something bad happens.

So, yeah, I've got a real problem with him not turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse, but he thinks he's going to. is Jesse James. He is having... Oh, you worked on that one. I think right now he's having a real problem. You probably sit up all night long. I think he's having a...

He's not Jesse. He's Jesse James. Okay. You know what? I'm going to just pass over that one. You know, it's a big deal to me, Darrell, and I know you're a famous defense attorney now, but in my mind, you'll always be an incredible felony prosecutor

because you could get a jury eating out of your hand. You are always prepared. You knew the law, you knew the facts, you knew it all when you went in front of a jury. And in this case, when you have a victim that does not cooperate with police, that is a problem. I don't care who he is. I don't care who he sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care.

But if you don't cooperate with police, then that is a problem with me. What's your problem? There's a problem with me as well. I've got another problem with that. How in the world, in the middle of the night, 2 a.m., 9 degrees, minus 9 degrees, it's about the same, frozen. Do you get mugged by two people who know you're obviously black, but you're homosexual? Really? Well, because he's a famous TV star.

So here's the thing. This is another wrinkle in this to Ellen Killoren, Crime Online.com. Hold on. I've got to write this down. Here's the thing. So if they were targeting Jesse Smollett, okay, hold on. If they were targeting him and this was a hate crime, how do they know to be outside the subway at 2 a.m. with bleach and rope?

Or are they just hanging around to get a sandwich and they happen to have bleach and rope with them? If they were targeting Jesse Smollett, E.K., were they casing out his apartment? Why were they there at 2 a.m.? And I haven't even touched on these two guys, these two Nigerian guys, that work out in his apartment building gym, that know him, that have been extras on the set of Empire, or at least one of them has, that have been questioned. and released and allegedly are now saying they were paid to do the attack. But first of all, I'm going to get to the theory. Ellen Coulorin, so the perps were what, waiting outside the subway sandwich shop for him? I mean, what's the theory here?

How did they know he was going to be getting a sandwich at 2 a.m. if he was the one targeted for a hate crime? Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was going to get a sandwich at 2 a.m. But Jesse has an Instagram account, and he's a very active social media user. And we learned over the weekend that he had been in New York during the previous days, and he had flown back to Chicago that night, but his flight was delayed, and he came in much later than expected. And he posted a couple of Instagram stories on his Instagram account,

talking about how his flight was delayed. So someone who had to have had a little bit of information about what was going on with him that day. If they wanted to track his movement, they could to a certain degree through his social media activity. Okay. Let me ask you this, E.K., regarding Jesse Smilett, now that may make it make more sense that he was out at 2 a.m. Was his flight so delayed? He was just getting home from the airport at, say, 1 o'clock and hadn't eaten? do we know the timing of that?

Because that makes, although the Chicago airport is full of food, but I don't know if it would be open, the food stands would be open that late at night. So if he gets off a plane from New York and he gets in midnight, gets to his apartment at 1, he may very well be hungry. And there is a theory out there that that is how he communicated to set up the attack through posting, you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram that these two brothers could actually

see his movements by looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So, E.K., do we know what time he got in from his flight? We don't know exactly what time he landed or got back to his apartment, but it does, we don't have a lot of very clear information at all, Nancy, but it does seem as though it's likely that he did stop off at his apartment first. But like you said, he has been away. It's the middle of the night. He probably hasn't eaten.

He's on the flight for longer than expected. The food court put it as a food. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Well, okay. Remember another hoaxer, Anna Delvey, aka Anna Sorkin, who ripped off her friends to nearly $100,000 and then ended up on dancing with the stars. She bedazzled, her GPS ankle monitor, and then whined.

They, dancing with the stars, took advantage of her. I mean, really? Now this, Jesse Smollett, the infamous race hoaxer, the former star of Empire, he brought that crashing down, is going to star on special forces world's toughest test to air on Fox. And Hulu, have they lost their mind? I think that what people need to hear is just the truth.

It's just the truth, because everybody has their own idea. Some are healing and some are hurtful. But I just want young people, young members of the LGBTQ community, young black children to know how strong that they are. to know the power that they hold in their little pinky. It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse Smollett bruised but not broken. And he's still processing the raw motions.

Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah. I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram and DMs and things like that. It's like, but you know, I'm a public figure. I'm very outspoken. Sometimes maybe too outspoken, but it's who I am, you know, so I get the idea of pissing people off, that you're going to rub people the wrong way. In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago with threatening language and laced with powdery substance, likely Tylenol.

Do you think there's a link between the letter and the attack? And you did mention it to the police right away about the letter. Absolutely. Just because on the letter, it had a stick figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing towards it. With the words that said, Smollett, Jussie, you will die black. There was no address, but the return address said in big red, you know, like caps, MAGA. Did I make that up to? You are hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC's GMA speaking with Empire star Jesse Smollett.

And right now we know that the police investigation is going on. Police chief has confirmed the two guys that allegedly are identified in the video that police believe committed the act, the attack on Jesse Smollett, have been apprehended, questioned, and released with no charges. What about these letters, Ellen Calloran? What are the letters that he claims he got leading up to this attack? threatening letters. Yes, exactly.

One week before the night of the alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio where he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it contained direct death threats, homophobic, and racist language. There's two things about the letter that are coming up more recently in the discussion around this case. One of those is that some unidentified sources who, have access to the set and may even work with Jesse have told CBS News that he was unhappy about the response to the letter and the threat that he got, that he felt that it wasn't taken

seriously enough and that he was angry and that they're questioning, did he set up this orchestrate this purported hate crime as retaliation for that? The other thing that we're learning, and again, these are not official law enforcement statements. These are unidentified sources who are talking to news outlets, but we're learning that the letter was made out of, and you can see it in the photos, the letter was written, sort of

like a ransom type of letter with cut out letters from a magazine. And we're hearing that when investigators went and raided the apartment of these two brothers who have been identified as possibly involved in this attack, they took away a magazine.

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Dr. Bethany Marshall, are these threat Letters like the kinds you see on Agatha Christie and Erichael Poirot, like in the movies where you cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting. And also, we are learning for sure that in a follow-up visit by investigators, Smollett says the attackers mentioned something about this as MAGA country, which relates back to the Trump campaign. Right. So the whole situation is fluid, but I can tell you this. Remember the runaway bride when she lied about getting kidnapped?

Yes. She got to cut grass and do community service out in the public for I forgot how long. Other people have done jail time, hard jail time for bringing police in on a hoax of an investigation. Because who knows what crimes were really. happening at the time of a hoax, and instead of dealing with the real crime, cops are out spending thousands and thousands of dollars and man-hours trying to solve a fake call. And this one, if it is fake, is a whopper. Now, what do you make, Dr. Bethany Marshall?

The studio, the Empire Studio, had assigned him bodyguards, we've been told, but according to sources, he was unhappy with the reaction to the letters. Does that mean, what, they didn't get enough attention? What does that mean to you, Dr. Bethany? Well, you were mentioning the runaway bride and these crimes where we find out it's a hoax in the end. And I don't know if this was a hoax or not. But in forensic interviews, one of the things we're trained to do with crime victims is to find out if they're doing something called malingering. Mlingering is when you make up medical symptoms or you exaggerate medical symptoms.

for some external reward. It's that simple. Now, in 20% of criminal cases, malingering is involved in some way. 20% of PI cases, as you can imagine, malingering, 30% of disability cases. The sicker I am, the more I'm going to get some kind of reward or attention, or I'm going to get out of some consequence. Like, you're not going to send me to jail. I'm not going to have to go to the military.

So what's so interesting to me about this story is the exaggerated, two aspects, the exaggerated nature of his symptoms. He's sitting on the sidewalk, bleach on his clothing, the rope around his neck. Wouldn't you pull a rope off? No, he's sitting there, you know, with the clear sign that he's been accosted. He talks about being black, gay, LGBTQ, anything that could paint him in a sympathetic light he keeps putting out there. The second aspect is the fuzzy nature of the timeline. When somebody malingers, they usually obstruct the investigation process. They do not want the investigators to know clearly what happens. So if I have a patient in my practice who's malingering, you know, Dr. Marshall, I was, I don't know, my boss keeps yelling at me.

I want to bring a lawsuit. You know, I say, well, what did your boss say? Well, I don't know. I just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very fuzzy details. No, is it true, E.K. Ellen Kalorin, Crime Online.com, investigative reporter that Smolet had been in New York to audition for a role in the play that is very oddly similar to his alleged attack? What do we know about the play for which he was auditioning? He was at a reading, actually.

It wasn't an audition. I believe he's already part of the cast, but that's what he was doing in New York. He was flying back to Chicago from New York, and he was in New York because he was doing a reading of the script of this play. And the character in the play is a person of color. It's a celebrity, a sports star in the case of the fictional character. But he is someone who the character is someone who has been the victim of hate crimes that according to the reports that we're reading that have some similarities in the crime. that was allegedly committed against him just within hours of him arriving back to Chicago after the same wording, the same slurs, awful slurs, if this is true, it is a hate crime.

I'm learning also, Daryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in felony court, that he, Smollett, did not call police. It was a close associate about 40 minutes after the attack, according to the New York Times. and I think that was his manager. He did not call police, and when cops got to his place, he still was wearing the rope around his neck. Help me. Well, I can help you, Nancy, because it sounds to me like a setup.

Did you also pay attention to his voice? This is a guy that's reading a script. This is not someone who's upset. This is not someone who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not going to be calm and gentle. add that to the cocktail add the fact that he's not giving his phone to the police to the cocktail add the fact that all he can do is say oh my gosh i was attacked and this is terrible but he has a noose around his neck 40 minutes later really this is a guy who was look many times nancy people equate stars on television or on the big screen with intelligent

sorry not the same some are some are not this guy is reading a script he saw a way to get even perhaps he saw a way to make more money perhaps but what he didn't see is that he's not as bright as he believes himself to be so he's not shakes take a listen to cb s chicago reporter charlie de mar brothers ola and abel osendaro captured on streeterville surveillance cameras told detectives their role in the reported january 29th attack an actor Jussie Smollett, according to multiple sources. Those sources say Smollett paid the brothers thousands to carry out a staged attack. Smolett had this to say about the scuffle with his attackers. He said, this maga country n-punches me right in the face. So I punched his ass back. I noticed the rope around my neck and I started screaming.

People that make false claims to police, much less to this extent, usually land behind bars. If they're regular mortals like all of us, if you're Hollywood star, maybe you get different treatment. Jesse Smollett, superstar on the cast of Empire to Ellen Coulorin Crime Online.com, investigative reporter, where we have all breaking crime and justice news. Ellen, what can you tell me about these two guys? Everyone refers to them as Nigerian. They're American. That's right, Nancy.

They were born and raised in Chicago. The reason I believe that people are calling them Nigeria, because they, for reasons that had not been explained, and I do not understand, apparently flew to Nigeria the day after the attack and came back to Chicago last week where they were met with investigators at the airport. That has not been explained why that happened, or if it has anything to do at all with the alleged assault. And I also wanted to point something else out, Since we're talking about the rope and the phone, a lot of the things that have come up in recent days really don't look good. Like they look very suspicious and things are starting to really maybe fall apart here in this story.

But a couple of things I think are not suspicious that happened here. I don't think it's suspicious that he did not want to hand over his entire phone immediately. He's a public figure. He's a celebrity who has received threats before. Ellen, have you ever been attacked at 2 a.m. Had a rope tied around your neck and bleach poured on you? Because if you have, I'd like to interview you about that. Okay.

Because if that happens to you and your life is in danger and cops say, we need your phone, you go here, whatever. I mean, when a cop pulls me over, which has happened, I like say, whatever, here, take it all. Okay, just please leave my children behind. Whatever. I don't want a problem with a cop. Okay. Nobody should be above the law. And if they want your phone, give your phone. But you know what? That's you and this is me. So go ahead with your analysis. Okay. But what I wanted to also say is that I believe he did agree to hand over the phone records about the rope. What we heard in the beginning of this narrative was that he kept the rope around his neck because he didn't want to sort of disturb the scene. And he wanted the off of. responding officers to see

what had been done. That was the explanation for the rope of being left. You know what? I hear you and he could have claimed that he did not want his DNA, his I don't think you get prints off rope, but any

of his fibers are DNA on the rope or to ruin any evidence on the rope. So I can understand that. Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records, but that they were heavily redacted. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

X is on fire. One user says, yikes, someone giving Jesse Smollett a platform after all the, let me just say crap. He pulled as a little scary. Another says, I thought he was in jail. Well, you're right. That's where he should be. Another says, on X, why is Jesse Smollett not in jail? Another says, I see Jesse Smollett still trying to reinvent himself like we forgot he staged a fake hate crime to become famous. Another says, this is bleak. Another says, the return of juicy Smilett. Is he going to convince us? He's a, quote, tough guy. another says he's going to pretend to get beat up

by MAGA. Hey listen, I'm not a Democrat or a Republican, but everybody's saying, everybody joining in on X is right. Another gets real and says Jesse Smollett is such a gross and unnecessary casting choice. Why is everyone up in arms?

This is why. According to TMZ, our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records were handed over and the cops rejected them. The cops rejected them. Daryl Cohen, are you sitting down? The cops

rejected them saying that they were so heavily redacted that they were basically of no use. What about handing over your phone records to cops and you redact them? Oh, come on, Nancy. This is absurd. If you have a victim

of a crime, first of all, I want to go back to the noose. If I've got a noose around my neck, oh my god i'm going to rip that off as quickly as i possibly can because i am freaked out this guy was not hurt this guy was not attacked he is looking for publicity he may have won an emmy for empire but the news outlets in chicago are going to win a news emmy for their coverage of this guy who doesn't recognize the truth from a lie he is scripted and he's gotten himself into a problem he's a walking living soap opera that's all he is

reason they got interested in the phone records to start with is that Smolett said to cops he was on the phone with his manager at the time of the attack and that the manager says he heard the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown and they want to authenticate that that call was in fact made. They asked Smolett for the records about two weeks before. They got a PDF file. Now, police also say there are cameras everywhere in the area, but there is a 60-second gap in the video where you don't see the Empire Star. So there's no video of the actual attack. I've looked at shots of the video, and you see two persons of interest in surveillance footage.

Now, this is what is telling to me, Dr. Bethany Marshall, these two guys that everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, let's be very clear on that, who take off to Nigeria the day after the attack they work out in his building at least one of them does in the gym in smolett's building his apartment building one of them has been an extra on the set they're totally buff they look like their bodybuilders i've seen their photos and i never see they wearing a shirt i mean not judging but they are totally buff so you can see they work out all the time they take off for nigeria the day after the attack they come back they're met by the cops they are quite questioned. They are released, Dr. Bethany, no charges, and after meeting with them, cops say they want to re-interview Jesse Smollett. What does that say to you, Dr. Bethany? Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria, they're now $3,500 richer because they just got paid for the attack, right? And some people do not think ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into a crime, so they may have thought, no big deal, we'll rough them up,

We'll put a rope around his neck. We'll take a vacation. We'll come back. This will have all blown over. But you know what? They talk to the police. And as I was saying about malingering, the whole story does not shake out. The timeline is not consistent.

And so the police are going to look to Jesse. And I would wonder, what is Jesse's reward in all of this? When people malinger symptoms, you know, I was roughed up. I was a victim. They do it for a reward. Is he trying to up his. Twitter following, is he negotiating a contract right now? And he wants to prove to the EP of the show that he is the center of a national news situation.

Is he wanting to take somebody else's role in Empire? You know, I think that there's a reward there somewhere. And if you follow that trail, the whole thing begins to make sense. Well, I've been looking and researching and following and asking questions. According to CBS Chicago, who is there on the scene, cops want to speak to Smollett again, based on, quote, new evidence. They learned from the two friends, the two guys. Now, according to CBS, too, sources told them that Smollett paid the two guys $3,500 to stage the attack.

This is CBS this morning anchor John Dickerson. Take a listen to what they see on the video. Police are looking for two potential persons of interest in a possible hate crime against actor Jesse Smollett. Police say a surveillance camera took these images of the two men on the night Smollett says he was beaten. The star of the TV drama Empire said his masked attackers yelled racist and homophobic slurs. Dean Reynolds is tracking the investigation. The investigators are hoping the FBI can enhance those images to provide some distinguishing details. Now, the men are not considered suspects, but the police do want to know who they are and what they were doing when Smollett says he was attacked.

Sources tell CBS News the two figures seen in these dark surveillance images were also spotted sitting on a bench when Jussie Smollett walked past them across the street. They then appear to get up and follow him, although the three of them are never seen on camera together. About a minute later, investigators say another security camera captured Smollett. returning to his apartment with a noose tied around his neck. The rope was untied, but still on his neck when police arrived 45 minutes after he says he was attacked. The truth about Jesse Smollett, I think I already know the truth. Joining the infamous race hoaxer, stirring up racial animosity like nobody else,

Jesse Smollett set to star in a reality show along with the Real Housewives of New Jersey cast member Teresa Judice, whose own brush with the law involved an 11-month prison sentence for fraud. Ooh, she's going to compete along with her daughter, Gia. Oh, okay. I guess, um, Smolett's in good company. Other contestants for season four include Kristen Cavalieri's ex-boyfriend Mark Estes. I mean, I know who all these contestants are, but I know who Jesse Smolet is.

As fans respond, quote, I thought he was in jail. Well, he should be. Wow, I'm almost through with the pizza, and I'm ready to start on a large popcorn loaded with butter. Jesse Smollett is going to be on TV. Wow, thanks, Hulu. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast.