Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - JUSTICE FOR CULT MOM LORI VALLOW VICTIMS - JJ , TYLEE & TAMMY

Episode Date: July 31, 2023

Convicted killer Lori Vallow faced a judge today for sentencing in the deaths of her children, JJ and Tylee, as well as conspiracy in the death of Tammy Daybell.  The court heard victim impact statements from two of Tammy Daybell family members and two from Vallow's relations.  Lori Vallow addressed the court herself, beginning with a biblical quote from Christ: "He that is without sin among you let him first cast a stone at her."  Vallow said Jesus understands her and  knows the truth of what happened. Vallow's statement intimated deaths from suicide or complications from medications. She also told the court that the spirits of all three victims have visited her in prison.  Vallow said Tylee is no longer in physical pain from her medical condition and that JJ is happy. She said quote, "My beautiful children Tylee Ashlyn and Joshua Jackson rest safely this day in the arms of Jesus. My wonderful friend Tammy Daybell rests safely this day in the arms of Jesus, and I look forward to the day we are all reunited and I, too, will rest with them in the arms of my Jesus."  Judge Steven Boyce told Vallow that the crimes for which she was convicted were heinous before sentencing her to consecutive life sentences.  Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Mark Tate -Trial Lawyer at TateLawGroup   Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA; Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women  Chris McDonough - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, & Host of YouTube channel- ‘The Interview Room’  Lauren Matthias - Journalist and Host of ‘Hidden True Crime’ Podcast and YouTube Channel; @HiddenTrueCrime on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The time is now. The clock has finally ticked down on so-called cult mom, Lori Vallow. It all started. It's amazing. I was looking at my notes. I want to show you way back when, when I was writing about, as I called her then, Doomsday Cult Mom, now Cult Mom, Lori Vallow, and brand new husband, Chad Daybell.

And the very first thing I wrote was, have till Thursday to produce their children. That's how it all started. When these two children seemingly vanish into thin air, they go missing. Then we found out about this twisted cult that Lori Vallow had become enmeshed in and her prophet lover turned husband, Chad Daybell.

That's how it all started. When we couldn't find those children, then the search was on. And we speculated. Are they being hidden away with some of the cult followers? Are they in some cave somewhere or some obscure home with the windows boarded up? And why? And actually, that's what we hoped. We hoped that as bizarre as it was, these children were somehow spirited away and were being kept by cult members, as horrible as that would have been. And then as the days, the weeks, the months passed, we realized they

weren't being hidden, that somewhere, somehow, they were dead. All this happened while cult mom Lori Vallow and her new, I believe, fourth, fifth, confusing husband, the prophet, as he calls himself, Chad Daybell, had gone to Hawaii and had literally danced on the beach after their wedding ceremony, taking wedding photos. You know how when you get married, a lot of people go stage photos on the beach. They actually did that. Now, it probably was normal to the people standing around them and watching them. But what those people didn't know is that back home, J.J. entirely had been brutally murdered and buried on the prophet Chad Daybell's property, actually at his pet cemetery. That's where the children were. Then we began to speculate and wonder and investigate,

well, what about Tammy Daybell? She conveniently died right before their Hawaii wedding. Then the evidence began to unfold, including cult mom Lori Vallow going on Amazon and buying a beach B-E-A-C-H wedding dress and rings before Tammy Daybell died. I mean, I'm sure when the jury heard that, their heads were just spinning. Long story short, it proceeded from there to an indictment

for the both of them. Court wrangling. Their trials were severed under the law, which means they were tried separately. The first to go to trial, cult mom Lori Vallow. Soon to follow, we believe in 2024, will be her husband, the prophet, Chad DeBell. We are waiting right now for finally, believe it or not,

I'm looking back at these notes, when we were still looking for JJ entirely. Believe it or not, we've gone through investigation, indictment, and now sentencing after a very long and torturous jury trial. So many people have been affected by what cult mom Lori Vallow

and her husband, the prophet Chad Daybell, have done. There are dead bodies connected to these two. We still don't know the answer to those. But right now, all eyes trained on a courtroom. But with me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now, Mark Tate is joining me from the Tate Law Group. Mark has tried many, many cases, including homicides, sadly, on the other side of the fence. Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist, joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.

You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Chris McDonough is joining us, director of the Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective with nearly 300 homicides under his belt. Those investigations, many of which ended in a guilty verdict. I found him at the interview room on YouTube, and you can find him at coldcasefoundation.org. But first, I want to go to a very well-respected journalist, host of Hidden True Crime Podcast and YouTube channel, Lauren Mathias. Lauren, we're getting a sentencing today of cult mom Lori Vallow. I expect it to be life behind bars, hopefully to run consecutively. So if she paroles out on one, she's still got the next one to deal with. But all eyes are now looking beyond this courtroom as we wait for sentencing onto the trial of Chad Daybell.

And I'm also curious about the attempt on the life of Brandon Boudreau. But first, what can you tell me about the prophet? Oh, I can tell you a lot about the prophet chad daybell you know um i'm actually in rexburg right now nancy and we have been to his house i have spoken to jurors who who now are dedicated to making sure we have justice not just for laurie valo daybell but for her her sidekick her partner in crime, Chad Daybell. Hey, hold on right there, Lauren. I'm going to come right back to you.

But Dr. Angie, I want you to listen especially to what Lauren Mathias is saying because cult mom and all of her kooky beliefs was still harmless until she got with Chad Daybell. Then people started dying. So that Slingali effect he had on her is something I'd like you, Dr. Angie, to analyze. Mark Tate, I want you to think about co-defendants under the law. And Chris McDonough, we've seen a lot of murders where usually the man masterminds it and the woman goes along with it. What, she can't call 911?

Jump in,cdonough yeah you know in this uh saga here nancy as you've been talking about it from day one this is a situation where the two personalities come together and quite frankly she seems to be the more dominant one over this you know false prophet uh chad and it's really been interesting uh to see that he's been just kind of you know tagging along but he has a tremendous amount of influence but what okay well can i say back on his satellite yes please do so so i actually think it was chad's belief system chad was a doomsday author chad had a scale where he rated people light to dark

chad would decide if somebody was a zombie and he is the one who labeled tylee 16 year old tylee ryan laurie's daughter a zombie calling her dark, calling her evil. Chad was the one setting the stage with his belief system, with his books. He was the speaker at these conferences, these preparing a people conferences where he would talk about the end of the world and how we would have white tents and we would have to shoot the zombies that came. And so I actually think that, you know, thank goodness Lori Vallow Daybell is being sentenced today. And thank goodness, you know, I think you're right, Nancy. I think that we'll see, let's hope for life. Let's hope for two lives. But we also, in order to get justice for these children, for these spouses that have lost

their lives, we need to make sure we see this through until next year and be there for Chad Daybell's trial too because these two, what they have done is horrendous. You know, I'm hearing Laura Mathai speaking, who is there in town. I guess that's Mark Tate. Go ahead, Mark. Yeah, I was going to just jump in for a moment.

You had mentioned something about a Svengali effect that this Chad Daybell had. And I think it really is interesting because, you know, we just saw one of Charles Manson's followers paroled. And I think that, you know, these types of cult leaders are known to be very charismatic and they make the people who are working with them believe they're doing what they're doing voluntarily in support. And so it really is a control situation. And we have layered on top of that with Chad Daybell, this underpinning of his religious beliefs. And, of course, everything he was saying. Can we please stop Mark Tate right there?

Yeah. Tate, Tate, yes, no. Yes or no. Have you ever given birth, Mark Tate? No, but it's starting to feel like it in this interview. Okay, no, no, that was a one, that was just a one word answer because I don't give a flying fig who Svengali is, but when you are a mother and you would go along with somebody's idea for you to kill your children, you can go straight to H-E-double-L. All right. Because I'm not buying it. I'm commenting on his manipulative effect. I think he's clearly skilled at it. And I think she was open to it, sadly. And I think

obviously she's convicted. And you're right. She should go absolutely forever. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, I want you to listen to our friend Rick Leventhal joining us from Fox. Take a listen to our cut too. Still more questions than answers in the disappearance of an Idaho brother and sister. Seven-year-old Joshua and 17-year-old Ty Lee haven't been seen since September. The kid's mother, Lori Vallow, and her new husband left for Hawaii about three months ago. Vallow and her new husband are members of a religious group preparing for the biblical end of times, and they've been surrounded by sudden deaths. Her brother killed her estranged husband last July, then he died in December, and her new husband's former wife

died in October. Authorities served a search warrant on Daybell's home Tuesday, leading to the discovery of what now police confirm is two sets of human remains in the backyard. New developments and somber news coming out of the Lori Vallow case. Relatives of the Vallow family say that the human remains found at the Idaho home of Vallow's husband, Chad Daybell, are in fact Vallow's children, JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan. You know, it's really hard if you're trying to parse words and split hairs. Who is the mastermind between these two? But burying the children's remains in Chad Daybell's backyard, I don't know what kind of mastermind devised that,

but it wasn't that difficult for their remains to be found. We had to get enough pc probable cause to search his property cult mom laurie valo apparently shackled at the hands to the waist can't tell about her legs and we heard at the beginning we believe cult mom laurie valo may be elocuting is what they call, which she has the right to elocution, which means she can take the stand or speak from where she is and speak to the court about what she believes her sentence should be. If she does that, I expect her to try to show remorse. Although, if she does that, that's a real legal conundrum. If she expresses remorse about her part in the murders of her children, J.J. Tiley and Chad Daybell's wife,

Tammy, an appellate court could look at that and say, well, she's admitted guilt, so we're not reversing this. We've been asked our panel to make sense of what we heard right now. I don't know if it affected you guys the way it did me, but during those witness impact statements, I didn't know sometimes if I was going to cry, to be angry. I literally wanted to strangle cult mom Lori Vallow as the prosecutor described the way that Tylee was murdered, especially the part when he pointed out yet again, which is already in autopsy reports, that there were stab marks in Tyle girl, who was a mommy's girl, was stabbed dead.

She was stabbed prior to dismemberment. And when I heard that, all I could think about is my little girl, Lucy. Now, they did not seek the death penalty on Lori Vallow. Not sure why. But that said, let me go straight out to Mark Tate joining us from the Tate Law Group. I mean, right there. That would be a guaranteed life without parole as far as I'm concerned. Go ahead. Absolutely.

You know, you were talking about the witness impact statements, the victim impact statements. I really I thought Samantha Gwilliam had a very powerful statement. And you got to kind of think about it and let it sink in. But when she said, I choose to forget you. I think that I think that really is powerful. And I think that's exactly the kind of thing that's going to sink deep with with that Valo woman. But, you know, I had thought that they did seek the death penalty. And this judge said that he was preventing them from from pursuing it because they didn't timely enough make a discovery disclosure. And, you know, it sure does seem like that this type of person is the type of person who it seems like if we're going to have a death penalty in the United States criminal justice system, this is an instance in which it should be applied. And why the state had to suffer the loss of pursuing that. I'm not sure. I know that this gentleman was a prosecutor before he was on the bench. Well, Lori Vallow had a speedy trial demand. Lori Vallow had a speedy trial demand.

And the result of that to everybody is when the defendant files a speedy trial demand, you have to try the case within a certain amount of months or there's an automatic acquittal. So when it was ruled that there was a flaw in the notice of the DP death penalty and they had to either seek life without parole or drop the case. So, Mark Tate, you're absolutely right. I got to tell you, the way that Rob Wood, one of the prosecutors in this case, laid it out so calmly was very, very persuasive. Now, you heard Mark Tate, Mark Tate, high-profile lawyer from the Tate Group, joining us out of Savannah. He mentioned Samantha Williams' statement. Let's take a listen to our cut seven, exactly what he was describing.

Listen. We asked what's her name? Lori Ryan. That was a lie. That was two husbands ago. So it was what I searched. What happened to your previous husband? She told us that he died from a heart attack.

Lie. Died from being shot. I asked, are there children? I was told we will be empty nesters. That's a lie. The police ask us about missing children. You answer, the children aren't missing. They're safe and happy. It's a lie. Your children, your poor children were dead and buried on Chad's property. You planned the murders of your own children, your previous husband. Why? Why plan something so heinous? And you are a liar, an adulteress, and a murderer. Wow. You were hearing Samantha Gilliam speaking, reading at points, crying at points, long sobs in between. Her statement, incredible. But there is more.

I want you to listen to our cut eight. Now, this is Vicki Hoban. I want you to hear this. This is, you know what? I'll let her speak for herself. Listen to Vicki Hoban. Lori sits here convicted and prepped for prison. And let's be honest, the only question left is for how long.

Tammy lived her life. She supported her family in every way. And for you to turn her home where she lived and slept into a cemetery, her two innocent and beautiful children, is one of the most horrific things I can think of. Tammy would have been horrified to know what you had done. And it has broken us as a family. You are now going to pay the price,

albeit never sufficient in this life. It's all that we can do. I hope that the life you live is filled with fear and that every day you are terrified. Just the way that beautiful Tylee lived in fear for hers and sweet JJ. Wow, that was Vicki Hoedman speaking. And when Kay Woodcock began speaking, she listed out a series of numbers, which I didn't really know what she

was talking about, but only she would know what those numbers were. 1,400 days since I haven't seen JJ this day. She had it all measured out, basically dissecting and chronologizing the time since the children first went missing. And they were missing for several months before they were ever reported missing because cult mom Lori Vallow kept lying about where they were. With me, all-star panel, Chris McDonough is joining us, director of Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, and star of the interview room on YouTube.

Chris, thank you for being with us. You know, the prosecutor there at the end, Rob Wood, did something none of the other victim impact witnesses did. And I think it's because they couldn't bear to. I would make juries hear this. I didn't like it, but I would make them hear what happened to the murder victims. And in this case, little J.J. just seven, a teen girl 16, what they endured at the time of their deaths. And that literally made me want to strangle cult mom Lori Vallon, who, by the way, sat there and hid behind her lawyers and looked completely disinterested. One time, one time, Chris McDonough, I saw her very briefly wipe her face with a tissue. And, oh yeah, I don't know if you saw this, Chris McDonough, but the

lead defense attorney was wiping sweat off his face throughout the sentencing, throughout the victim impact statements. He was sweating bullets in that courtroom. But what did you make of when Rob Wood described what these two young people went through? No jury really wants to hear that, but they have to, Chris. Yeah, 100%, Nancy, and it was riveting. You know, I think one thing that the audience needs to always keep in mind here. Wait a minute. Riveting? Riveting? I think of a movie or a book as riveting. It made me sick to my stomach, Chris. No, I agree 100%. That's where I was going here.

One thing we don't need to forget is she is a serial killer. And I love the impact statement comment where this is about a mother who killed her children and turned a home into a cemetery. That is power from that victim's family. And when we think about the horror that these children had to endure, the, you know, the child that's, you know, cut apart, put into a plastic container, and then buried. And this poor little autistic child, this little boy, whose last photograph is taken at Old Faithful, she is evil to the core. I agree with you a thousand percent. You know, when you said that, that last picture at Yellowstone during COVID, of course, when you couldn't go to a hotel or fly, we rented this big old honking RV and took off across the country to Yellowstone. And those were some of the happiest days when we were there as a family together, you know, camping, cooking out on a fire.

And I'm just thinking about those moments that she had with her children, knowing full well that she planned to murder them. And Dr. Angela Arnold, while she's there, Angela, Dr. Angie is a renowned psychiatrist. I call her Dr. Angie. But Dr. Angie, the thought that you were taking that picture. I mean, I've got all ours framed all over the house of us at Yellowstone. And she knew at that time with that picture, she was going to kill them. She knew what was going to happen to JJ and Tylee. You know, Nancy, that's why it's very important for us to realize that she is not capable of being rehabilitated. There is no rehabilitation in this

woman's future. The mental health providers that evaluated her couldn't even come up with a diagnosis for her. Then we look at her today during the sentencing, and we watch a woman who cannot bring any remorse out of herself. No shedding of a tear, nothing. She can't bring any remorse out of herself. And the first step in rehabilitation, Nancy, is to acknowledge what you've done and to have feelings associated with what you've done. So this woman is completely uncapable of being rehabbed. Yeah. You know what, Dr. Angie, I knew you were going to catch that, that in the PSI pre-sentence investigation, and there's always a pre-sentence investigation,

in most jurisdictions, it's done by people at Pardon and Parole, because they are experts at sentencing. I knew Dr. Angie was going to catch that when there was not even a plan of treatment for cult mom Lori Vallow. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm hearing in my ear that Laura Mathias wants in about the autopsy. Jump in, Lauren. Yeah, thanks, Nancy. I saw the autopsy photos. I saw the children on the crime scene or what was left of them, what was left of Tylee's pelvis.

I saw it. I saw the stab marks in her pelvis. I saw JJ's face and I saw the duct tape, chin to chin covering his mouth. So I assume he couldn't scream and I will never forget it. And I ran into a juror yesterday. They were out there at the memorial fence and that juror is now in counseling because of what she saw during the trial. We sat there together. What happened to those children is beyond imagination. You can hear it over and over and over again. And when you see it, when you see it, the evil knows no bounds. And I just wanted to jump in and say that I will never forget seeing JJ and Tylee ever and what happened to them.

You know, Lauren Mathias, there were many, many times, and this exact moment right now is bringing it back. That I would be in front of a jury showing them crime scene photos, typically couldn't show autopsy photos of people, including children's bodies, and describing it for them and eliciting testimony. And I would have to steel myself not to just break down and cry at the evil that can be committed on other people, much less children. Now, I'm thinking about Tylee and the stab wounds into her pelvis. She was largely a skeletonized there was some tissue left but that means that those stab wounds likely went through all the way to her bone and the way that she was disposed of. I've seen the bucket, a photo of it, a bucket full of, basically,

these children were rendered. Have you ever heard that phrase, Mark Tate? Mark Tate, veteran trial lawyer, joining us from the Tate Law Group out of Savannah, rendering, rendering. That's what people do in slaughterhouses to animals. And they tear apart the body and try to get rid of it. No, you're exactly right.

We hear right up here, the world capital of fruitcakes is Claxton, and they have lots of chicken rendering plants there as well. And you're right, it's absolute destruction of the entire body. And so not only that you have here this you know unbelievably vile hateful terrifying thing that's based on some kind of cult uh preaching or teaching uh but you have this effort to try to i guess encourage more rapid uh decomposition of the body so you know folks have talked about whether this person is going to be rehabilitated that's that's clearly ludicrous. That can never happen. We're talking about,

is this sentence harsh enough? And, you know, really, to me, any rational person sitting back, if we're going to have the death penalty, this is a case where the death penalty is absolutely warranted. And it seems like it screams out for it. We don't have that here. And so the second best thing that we can have here for this woman and the husband that she married, I guess, is just absolutely, I think, what the abomination of desolation, where they're never heard from again, never thought of again, and just absolutely wallow for the rest of their existence. Hold on, Mark. I'll call up Mom Lori Vallow. I saw many times during this, Mark Tate, you're a veteran trial lawyer,

she looked as if she were trying to hide over behind her lead attorney, all sunk down in her seat. And you see her hair's back right there? It got more and more like curtains covering her face during this. I'm going to have to ask Dr. Angie Arnold about that, too. She's hiding from the truth because it is raining down on her like buckets, like a storm. And she's finally hearing from the people that couldn't testify in the trial. Go ahead.

Ordinarily, this is a woman who clearly wanted attention, thrived on attention and liked it a lot. And now she's learning that this kind of attention is bad for her. And once this is over, I seriously think that it will be a wonderful punishment for her to never be heard from again and know that no one listens to her ever again. I think the last thing we would ever want to see for this woman is any kind of more aggrandization of this cult or what this man did or how she fell victim to it. This is the kind of thing, you know, Nancy, I'm not the kind of trial lawyer that usually speaks with this kind of language with regard to cases. I always want to talk about how the defendant is entitled to constitutional protections. Well, this woman had those. I like to talk about whether the death penalty serves a purpose.

And, you know, that frequently irritates you because you want to fight with me about defendants' rights and that type of thing because you're a prosecutor. I'm on the other side usually. So it's unusual, but this case is something that really sparks hatred, vitriol, anger, I think not just in the general public, but in the lawyers who were defending her, I think in the lawyers who were trying her. I think this judge, which was probably pushed to his limit in this matter to maintain an unbiased and disinterested approach, which I think he did. I disagree with keeping the cameras out of the courtroom and keeping high quality cameras out. I think that we're past that. But, you know, I think it's a fascinating thing we're watching here. And there's going to be another one coming up in Arizona before too long.

Oh, yeah. And not only in Maricopa County, but we've got Chad Daybell to worry about. You know, back to the judge, Judge Boyce. He reminds me so much of a judge. I tried a lot of cases in front of Judge Albertson. He was taking copious notes and he didn't interrupt throughout the whole thing. A few times he did, but rarely. But I like seeing him taking notes and actually having a question about the sentencing on grand theft. You know, when I first heard about the indictment to Chris McDonough, I was less than impressed by a grand theft charge being thrown in because I was concerned about the actual murders. But they were right. They were right.

Because greed, greed, taking part in conspiring to murder Tammy Daybell, completely innocent woman. Oh, and Molly in New York, I love the way that you put up the photos of the victims in life because at trial, the jury doesn't get to see the victims in life. If anything, they'll see a crime scene photo or in some cases an autopsy photo. But when I was looking at those pictures of Tylee, just, you know, starting her life as a young teen, and that picture right there, specifically, brother and sister, so in love with each other, having so much fun, all their lives ahead of them, having their own families and get-togethers and happy moments.

Just look at little JJ's little snaggledy-tooth teeth. And it reminds me of my son, John David, of course, before his braces. All they had to look forward to at so young. And then the pictures of Tammy Daybell working as a librarian, working with underprivileged children, coming home from a long day, thinking she was going to get a good night's sleep and never waking up. After her body was dug up, exhumed, we find out she was asphyxiated, smothered, dead. And for what? For life insurance, proceeds, $400-something thousand dollars,

and continued Social Security benefits for these two? It was all about greed, which takes me back to that grand theft charge. It's just overwhelming. I mean, Chris McDonough, you've processed, investigated, handled over 300 homicides. To think of money as motive? How much more cold-blooded could she be? You know, she is so past feeling nancy to your point that you know the seven deadly sins right greed being one of them this she literally while

preaching a spiritual persona had made a deal with the devil and he came collecting after he required a prerequisite of those children's lives and this is what makes her show i think um challenging to understand because there she is dancing on the beach in Hawaii with her ukulele and the legs and all the stuff that comes along with that. And yet with inside of her mind and the individual with her, she knows that her child, both of her children have been one of them at least dismembered and buried. And yet she's just in this other place. And it is driven by this unbelievable sense of I want more. It's hard to understand.

It certainly is. I want more everything, Chris. I want more men. I want more sex. I want more power. I want more sex. I want more power. I want more money. I want a different lifestyle without these children. And when Kate Woodcock described the way that cult mom Lori Vallow talked about little JJ as a, quote, demon.

I mean, his little face just illuminated from inside. That was such a happy, happy child. I want you to hear Kay speaking in our cut nine. Listen. She should have answered my calls. She should have spoken to me. I would have given her the money. She could have let JJ entirely live and had a million dollars

she could have been free to be chad's mistress and foot the bill with the money from spilled blood jj entirely could have been with us living happy lives instead she took all that away all because she is a money-hungry, power-mongering monster. And I will only have the precious memories to cling to. Now memories are how I feel the love I so desperately miss due to the heinous acts of his mother. The deplorable woman that chose to be his mother, the woman that five years earlier made the conscious decision to stand in front of a judge and just want to provide for, care, love, and protect him. You know, to Lauren Mathias, who has been covering this case since it started,

I try not to say story because these are real people and real pain and real suffering. You know, when I'm listening to Kay Woodcock describing the children and how precious they were, everybody that spoke tried to describe how disinterested Colt Malmori Valley was during the proceedings. How she acted like she was, you know, not even there, had such contempt for what was happening. And she did it again today. Did you notice her? She just like looking around, not paying any attention at all. Slouching. She was slouching in her seat, looking down, wouldn't even make eye contact with anyone, wouldn't sit up straight, looked up, looked down. Look at that. Look at that. Yeah. She's no different than she was in trial. That, by the way, that's the Lori Vallow Daybell you saw in trial for weeks.

That's who we saw. That's who the jurors saw. That's what we saw. So that is who she is. How would she react during trial when the description was being given of how her children were murdered? Did she sit there just like that? She did. In fact, that was the day she actually fought to not be in court. She didn't think it was fair that she had to sit there. That, you know, maybe she was embarrassed. I don't know. We had to do a sidebar that lasted forever because she didn't want to sit through listening to her children's autopsy reports. She just didn't think that she needed to be there for that. And then when she came back out, yes, that is how she sat. She looked down and she sulked the rest of the time. There were some tears, but you have to wonder what were they for? Were they for herself because she had to sit there and couldn't get away? Or were they for the children she brutally murdered? I have a feeling it wasn't that.

Could you tell us again, Lauren, what you saw of the crime scene photos of the children? Yeah, I'll never forget it. I'll never forget it. And like I said, just today, I talked to a juror that is in counseling because of it. But there are things in your life that you'll never unsee, and this is one of them. But I've been covering this case for three and a half years.

I had heard what the children had gone through. I had heard some insider information, and nothing could prepare me for what I saw. JJ bound with duct tape. And like I said, I'll bring it back. The duct tape around his mouth was the most upsetting to me because there's only one reason for that. There's only one reason, and it's to make sure he can't scream. You know, that to keep him quiet, that he knew what was going on, that he suffered, that they tortured him. That's the only reason for duct tape on the mouth.

And I will never not see his little seven-year-old face there. And to think who did it to him, the people that were supposed to protect him. You know, Tylee's pelvis was the most intact thing of her entire body. And you could see what they called chop wounds and stab wounds in her pelvis. And an anthropologist had to come into it. An anthropologist that does remains for ancient burial sites. That had to be the person that came in and testified about what Tylee Ryan went through. 16-year-old Tylee Ryan. And then they referred to finding her necklace that she was wearing that day and the chop wounds and stab wounds in her pelvis that had nothing to do with dismembering her or getting rid of her.

Why they were there, what they did to her, we'll never know. But that's just a hint of what she went through. You know, Mark Tate, you are hearing Laura Mathias speaking. You can find her at her Hidden True Crimes on YouTube. Mark, you're hearing her describe how she spoke to some jurors. They had to go to therapy after sitting through this trial and learning what was done to these children. And anything less than the maximum will be totally wrong. And I don't expect the judge to do that. But I don't know if you remember the case of Louise Woodward, the au pair convicted of killing baby Maddie Eapen by shaking him,

his shaken baby syndrome, and he was thrown to the ground. That judge, by the way, reduced, while he couldn't change her sentence under the law, he reduced the verdict. For instance, it would be like reducing it from murder one to voluntary so he could sentence her to a much lesser sentence. It has happened. It has happened. And this judge could do that under the law. I don't think he will, but he could. That would be amazing. You know, the case you were just speaking of, I think that there were some other things that affected that, as I recall, in discussing that case that affected

the judge and the input that they wanted to bring. And I think there was actually some notion that the way the judge modified that verdict was that it allowed for there to be a possibility for parole. That ain't happening here. There's no parole for this Valo person. The evidence that has been put on at this trial, and even now the victim impact statements of how the bodies were, it was overkill in order to, I suppose, and the forensic pathologist can tell us, to speed decomposition of the body to make it less likely they'll be found. The callousness of the text message from the husband, I guess his name is Chad, who said, I found a raccoon running in the yard and I shot him and he's buried in the pet cemetery and he was

talking about a person. These types of things. And Vallow was part of all of that. And these types of things, I think, go to so exacerbate the level of hate in this crime, the level of fear that this lady put on those around her. In fact, if someone said she's a serial killer, she is a serial killer. And I think that there's not going to be any commutation of a sentence. There's not going to be any lesser included offense, which is, I think, one of the things that you may have been worried about when you heard about a grand theft charge. But that exactly is why they did that, because it allowed them to argue that

the motive was greed, because they can say, Judge, you know, this goes to the greed and the grand theft argument, and that allows them to open the door into all of the life insurance claims that were existing with regard to, you know, the death of the other folks. So, no, there's not going to be any commutation of a sentence. There's not going to be any lesser sentence. I believe that exactly what the state has asked for is exactly what's wanted here. And I think, I mean, it would almost be an abuse of discretion to see this judge issue anything less than the absolute maximum that he could. Well, absolutely. But he does have that power. Guys, we are live in an Idaho courtroom

bringing you the latest in cult mom Lori Vallow's sentencing. the life without possibility of parole is on the table. That is what the state is demanding. Who knows what machinations are going on behind the scenes right now because we hear the cult mom, Lori Valo, may actually elocute. In other words, it's a fancy word to say speak in the courtroom. Now, she's not subjected to cross-examination at this juncture. She can say whatever she wants to, but I guarantee you that this case is going to be appealed. If she shows remorse, if she admits that will be weighed by the appellate court, uh-oh, I see movement. Guys, let's keep talking with each other while

we can. I see what's happening in there. Okay, the defense attorney's already got his hanky out. He is sweating bullets in that courtroom. Okay, let's go in live. I think that they're about to bring in, oh no, they're not because the judge is not on the bench. Can't do anything without the judge. So they're getting ready. Let's see if cult mom Lori Vallow is going to speak. Right now the courtroom is packed. We can see that. Go ahead, jump in. Go ahead, jump in.

Hey, Chris, it won't surprise me if she doesn't take, you know, the opportunity to, you opportunity to say at least something. It reminds me of Brandon Wills, remember, who killed the little boy in the bathroom in Southern California. At his arraignment, he yelled out something that was just outrageous. But she's going to play it. If she does choose, she's going to play it. She's going to play it if she does choose. She's going to play it. She's going to play the victim. And that will tell us even more about how dangerous she is, in my opinion.

Now, it's interesting that you say that, Chris McDonough, because she apparently is still in the throes like a newlywed with the prophet Chad Daybell. He seems to want to distance himself from her. So I don't know that I see her throwing him under the bus right now or implicating herself in any way by showing remorse. I just don't see that coming from her, which leaves us with what does she have to say i guess she could talk about uh to you dr angie arnold all of her love for the children all she could talk about dr angie is possibly her love for her children uh she didn't really know tammy daybell you know what i think we need to pay attention to when she's talking nancy let's pay attention to her the tone that she uses i've And some of the things that I've listened to that she's done, she's very childlike.

Let's watch for that. And I also am very interested in seeing how her counsel reacts to what she says, because I feel like there's no interaction between any of them. And they're sort of starting to separate themselves from her also. That's just how it appears to me. You know, oftentimes you still see the attorney interacting with his client. There's no interaction today. She's huddled back in a position and they've already started to distance themselves from her. So I think it'll also, as much as what she's going to say,

her tone of voice, how she says it, her eye contact or lack thereof, and how they physically respond to what she's saying is all going to be very telling for us. She's got one camera trained on the, go ahead. No, I was just going to say, Nancy, you started to talk about what does she have to gain by talking, and I've been trying to piece through it. She's been convicted, but you're exactly right, because she's got lawyers who are going to wade through

every piece of evidence admitted, every objection that they made at trial, the court's rulings, how the court commented on those rulings, whether there should have been a mistrial. And they're going to appeal every single thing that they can. And so I think if I was her lawyer, I would tell her that talking isn't a gay anything. She still has a right against self-incrimination and putting her talking. I mean, unless you can control her vocal cords and what comes out of them, I would tell her that it's my advice. You know, don't talk. You can't help yourself. You're convicted. And in times when I had the attorney client privilege and no one could hear me talking to her, I would tell her, just shut up. You know, you cannot help yourself. Silence is your friend.

And I'm sure the detective who's also listening to me will probably agree. Very rarely does talking to the cops actually help you, if ever. So I would tell her to hush. I love where you're coming from because I'm loving the opportunity for her to get up there and say something. And what I'm also thinking is in the pod where Chad is, is he watching this on TV today? Is he watching this program and going, you know, holy cow, they're laying out a bunch of stuff and I'm next. So that's where I'm going, and I hope she does get up there and start chattering away. Hey, guys, everyone's rising for the judge.

Thank you to all of our awesome guests. Let's listen to the judge. All right, Ms. Fallow, before I impose sentence, if you choose, you may address the court. This is known as the right of allocution, which permits you to make a statement on your own behalf or present any information and mitigation of the punishment for the crimes you've committed. And let me inquire at this time, do you wish to address this court? All right, very well. You may make your statement. I would like to start by quoting John from the New Testament in the Bible.

In John chapter 8, verse 7, Jesus says, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. Then in verse 15, Jesus says, Ye judge after the flesh, I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true. Jesus knows me. And Jesus understands me. I mourn with all of you who mourn.

My children and Tammy. Jesus Christ knows the truth of what happened here. Jesus Christ knows that no one was murdered in this case. Accidental deaths happen. Suicides happen. Fatal side effects from medications happen. I have a different perspective in life because in 2002, when I was pregnant with Tylee, I died in the hospital while in labor with her. They tried to stop my labor. They put me on the table and they put something in my IV and I felt my spirit falling to the floor. I was standing near my pregnant body watching the doctors try to revive

me, which took them a few minutes. In that time, my sister Stacy was standing to my left. I turned to hug her and was surprised that her spirit was as tangible as a physical body because I knew I was in spirit and she was in spirit. She said she needed to show me some things and we went to heaven. I later returned to my body. Because of this experience, I have access to heaven and the spirit world. Since then, I have had many communications from people now living in heaven, including my children, Tylee Ashland and Joshua Jackson, my sisters, Stacy and Lolly, my aunts and my uncles, and my grandparents. I have had many communications with Jesus Christ, the Savior of this world, and our heavenly parents.

I have had many angelic visitors have come and communicated with me and even manifested themselves to me. Because of these communications, I know for a fact that my children are happy and busy in the spirit world. Because of my communications with my friend Tammy Daybell, I know that she is also very happy and extremely busy. I have always mourned the loss of my loved ones, and I have lost many in this mortal world. However, I know them more than most people. I know where they are now and what they're doing. I know how wonderful heaven is, and I'm homesick for it every single day. I know we all lived in heaven before we were born on earth and we were all adult spirits in the heavenly realm. We chose to come to earth as mortals. Heaven is more wonderful than you can possibly imagine. I do not fear death, but I look forward to it. I did not want to return to my body when I was out of it, even though my son Colby, who I adored more than anything, was only six years old

at the time, and I was about to give birth to this new baby girl that I wanted so badly. I was a young mother, and you would think I wouldn't want to leave my children, but as I stood in heaven, I did not want to go back. I thought they would be fine without me because I was peaceful and I was happy and I was home. But then I was told by Jesus that I needed to go back and complete things that I had covenanted or promised to do before I was born. This caused me a lot of distress because I knew heaven was my real home and I only wanted to be there. I was free from pain, emotional and physical, but then I was shown how I would help my children and others in the future. So ultimately, I did agree to go back to my body.

Tylee has visited me. She is happy and very busy. Tylee is free now from all the pains of her pancreatitis. I sat there while she cried and I held back her hair while she threw up. And I am the only person on this earth who knows how much Tylee suffered in her life. She had pain every single day. She never felt good. Her body did not work right. And I don't know if that was from complications from me dying while she was being born or something else, but she had a very difficult life. She was sexually abused by her own biological father since she was three years old. And she was forced

by family court to go visit him for 10 years against her will. I fought for her in court. I protected her. I tried to protect her with my whole life. I tried to protect her. I worried about her every single day. Tylee had to get her GED because she couldn't go to school every day because she never felt good. She felt sick. Nobody knows this because Tylee, like myself, tries to put on a good front, tries to be a happy

person, tries to have hope in life, tries to know that she's here for a purpose and that she has an eternal purpose to be on this earth. But I never stopped worrying about her. One of the times that Tylee came to me as a spirit after she died, she said, she commanded me and she said to me, stop worrying, mom. We are fine. She knows how I worry and how I miss her. The first time JJ visited me after he passed away he put his arm around me and he said to me he didn't do anything wrong mom I love you and I know you loved me every minute of my life. JJ, Joshua Jackson, was an adult spirit, and he was very, very tall when he put his arm around me. He is busy. He is engaged. He has jobs that he does there, and he is happy where he is. His life was short but JJ's life was meaningful.

JJ was a wonderful person and touched the lives of everyone and I adored him every minute of his life. My eternal friend Tammy Daybell has visited me on several occasions. She came to bring me peace and comfort, and I know that she is extremely busy helping her family, especially her children and grandchildren, and I have a great love for Tammy. My beautiful children, Tylee Ashland and Joshua Jackson, rest safely this day in the arms of Jesus. My wonderful friend, Tammy Daybell, rest safely this day in the arms of Jesus.

And I look forward to the day when we are all reunited and I too will rest with them in the arms of my Jesus. All right, Ms. Fallow, thank you for your comments to the court. Let me ask you at this time, Ms. Vallow, are you fully satisfied with the representation you've received from your attorneys throughout this case?

Thank you. That ends the defense presentation, and now comes the sentencing. All right, the court will conclude then with my own... You just heard Colt Montevallo reading her statement. When I look at what the appropriate sentences should be for the conspiracy charges, at first I wondered if they should be as long of a term or serious as the substantive murder charges. However, what I've concluded is that

these conspiracy convictions merit the same grave punishment for several reasons. First, the conspiracies in which you engaged in have had far-reaching impacts on many people besides the deceased victims. And with what the courts heard, I am convinced that the conspiracy charges also merit the same serious sentence. So on count one, the conspiracy to commit first-degree murder of Tylee Ryan and grand theft by deception, you're sentenced to the custody

of the State Board of Corrections to serve the maximum allowed sentence to a fixed determinate term of life imprisonment with no possibility of parole. On count three, the conspiracy to commit first degree murder of Joshua Jackson Vallow and grant theft by deception. You're sentenced to the custody of the State Board of Corrections to serve the maximum allowed sentence to a fixed determinate term of life imprisonment with no possibility of parole. And on count five,

the conspiracy to commit the first degree murder of Tamara Tammy Daybell, you're sentenced to the custody of the State Board of Corrections to serve the maximum allowed sentence, a fixed determinant term of life imprisonment with no possibility of parole. Finally, the court will address count seven, which is the charge of grand theft. On that charge, court is going to sentence you to a fixed determinant term of five years of prison followed by an indeterminate term of five years of prison for a total 10-year term of imprisonment on the grand theft, then running counts concurrently would not serve the interests of justice because those crimes all need to be taken into account separately and distinctly and individually, and you need to be held accountable

separately for each of the three murders. So on those counts, the court will run consecutively the count two murder of Tylee Ryan, consecutive to count four, the murder of Joshua Jackson Vallow and count five will run consecutive to count two and four, the conspiracy to commit first degree murder of Tamara Tammy Daybell and we have a sentence there will be three consecutive life without the possibility of parole for cult mom Lori Vallow and the murders of her children JJ entirely and the murders of her children, J.J. Entilely, and the wife of her now husband, the prophet,

Chad Daybell. He based that reasoning on the fact that these were three separate murders at three separate times with three separate victims as opposed to one fell swoop of a murder where three victims were killed. Interestingly, Lori Vallow spoke out and allocated in court, which means she spoke before the judge. There was no right to cross-examine her, and she actually said in court, quote, I mourn with all of you, the victims. She, interestingly, and this may give us a peek into what Chad Daybell is going to claim in court, that there were accidental deaths, suicides, accidental deaths because of medications. Is that what she's telling herself what happened to her children?

The court pointed out that she was on a beach in Hawaii dancing a hula dance with her new husband, knowing full well people were looking for her children who were found dismembered and murdered on her new husband's property. We learned that she would not cooperate with a pre-sentence investigation that could have offered some but most strikingly in my mind co-mom Lori Vallow described speaking to her children now and she stressed to the court that the children JJ and Tylee are quote happy and busy in heaven how dare she

how dare she? How dare she say her murdered children are happy and busy in heaven as justification to lower or lessen her sentence in court? But oh yes, she did. The judge was having none of it. Three life without parole to run consecutively. Court adjourned. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.