Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Kevin Hart is the victim! Girlfriend chops up boyfriend? Should Florida ban O.J.?

Episode Date: September 20, 2017

Kevin Hart admits he made a mistake messing with a woman, but the comedian wants the FBI to arrest someone he claims tried to blackmail him with the video. Psycho-analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall and RadarOnline reporter Alexis Tereszcuk join Nancy Grace to look at the story. A Texas woman is charged with shooting her boyfriend, chopping him up & dumping him in garbage. Grace, Tereszcuk, Dr. Marshall and crime expert Joseph Scott Morgan discuss the Cierra Sutton case. Nancy & guests also talk to publicist Ed Lozzi, who's pushing an effort to convince Florida's governor to ban O.J. Simpson from the Sunshine State for at least two months after his October release from a Nevada prison. Lozzi argues that Florida needs time to recover from Hurricane Irma before it has to deal with Simpson. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. February 2004, Mara Murray empties her bank account, drives four hours from school, crashes her car, gets out, and vanishes. Everybody has a theory. Was she murdered? Was it a suicide? Did she run away? Join the search as an investigative reporter and former U.S. Marshal uncover new evidence, interrogate new witnesses, trace down new leads in this riveting new investigative series, The Disappearance of Maura Murray. It starts Saturday, September 23, 8.15 p.m., 7.15 p.m. Central on Oxygen, the new network for crime.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, channel 132. Kevin Hart is revealing that he was caught on video in an embarrassing situation with a woman, not his wife, and that he was targeted in an extortion plot. I made a bad error in judgment and put myself in an environment where only bad things can happen, and they did. Hart posted this admission on Instagram and apologized to his wife and two kids. I know that I'm gonna hurt the people closest to me, who I've talked to and apologized to, being my wife and my kids.

According to published reports, a man thought to be Hart was captured on camera getting cozy with a woman in a nightclub as well as a bedroom. Hart then allegedly received a demand for $10 million in return for keeping the sexually provocative video private. He is hilarious. He is Hollywood gold.

He is the star of a ton of box office hits, including Central Intelligence, Ride Along, The Wedding Ringer, one of my personal favorites, The Secret Life of Pets, About Last Night. I'm talking about Kevin Hart. But right now, he is not in the headlines because he is hilarious or a movie star. He is the target of an extortion plot all because he could not keep his pants zipped. Okay, that's the problem. Now, where I'm falling on this, I'm pretty sure as we go into this is I'm focused on the crime of extortion. Now, if he cheated, that's between him and his heavily pregnant wife. I'll withhold moral judgment because I certainly don't have a leg to stand on.

Straight out to Alexis Tereszczuk, Radar Online investigative reporter. Alexis, let's get right down to it. What happened? So we busted Kevin at Radar in July with a woman who was not his wife. He was in a car with her outside a club in Miami at about 5 o'clock in the morning, from about 3 to 5 o'clock in the morning. Wait, wait, wait. What did you say about 3 o'clock in the morning?

That's what time he was outside in a car. I'm sorry, Alexis. I got carried away by a headline. Woman in extortion video is a traveling stripper. Because I, sadly, have dealt with a lot of strippers in my lifetime, male and female. And I'm, you know, trying to find witnesses in cases. The first one I had was a crime victim. And she was assaulted and robbed while dressed like a cheerleader in an alley.

Okay, I learned right then that the juries know a stripper when they see a stripper. It does not matter how you dress them up in court. And I actually had her tell the jury where she went to Sunday school. They looked at me like, girl, just don't, don't. I'm like, okay, I'm sorry. Go ahead. So that didn't work. I just saw this headline, the woman in the Kevin Hart extortion

video, and I'm getting this from my buddies over at TMZ, traveling stripper? What? what okay hold on back to you 3 a.m well it's it's a career where you can go from places like Vegas to Miami Atlantic City and you can strip and all that you don't have to live in just one town you can make big bucks take off your clothes and lots of different places Alexis I don't even want to know how you know about this okay but. But that traveling stripper hood aside, did you say 3 a.m. in the morning? Because I used to tell juries all the time, nothing good happens after midnight.

You're out and about after midnight, something bad going to happen. Okay, go ahead. Start over with the 3 a.m. thing again. So this actually is previous to this video, this woman, the extortion video you're talking about. We published photos on Radar Online of Kevin and other women that were not his wife, 3 a.m., outside a car. He's actually sitting in the passenger seat with this woman, kind of getting busy, for lack of a better word, because we can't quite see. Alexis, they were just friends. Right, they were.

They were just friends. They were looking at MapQuest. Okay, 3 to 5 o'clock in the car. He didn't know that y'all were sneaking around trying to take a picture of him. It wasn't even really that sneaky. It's just right next to the car. It's not a limo with blacked out windows. It's a car that you can see right into.

So that's the first time he gets busted. That was July. Did it hit the headlines? Did it hit the headlines then? Oh, lord help us what about the wife when is she going to give birth uh any day now that she announced it in may so we're expecting a baby any day now you know celebrities don't tell you exactly what their due dates are yeah because they don't want raider online hanging outside their window by

their ankle on a wire trying to get a picture of the inside of the hospital okay so no offense go ahead we need details well then he gets caught in another video with a different woman, and he's like lying on top. This is after he's already sort of kind of not really apologized. He just says, you know, I get in bad situations.

I put myself in bad situations, but nothing happened. Now he's totally caught another video with him lying on top of this woman, and in fact, there's another video reportedly of a naked man. There are two people having sex. And then there's a naked man getting dressed. Wait, wait, wait.

Alexis, can you slow down, please? I've only had one cup of tea so far. Now, hold on. I get too excited about the title. Who is the naked man? Kevin Hart, allegedly. How do you know? Well...

What part of his anatomy did you recognize, Alexis Tereshchuk? That's the thing. I mean, it's allegedly Kevin Hart. Appears to be Kevin Hart. Allegedly. I guess he doesn't have as many distinctive things as you would hope he would have. I'm not helping you out on this, Alexis. I'm not pulling you out of this one.

Okay, now, so you're saying that you think, and I don't know this yet, that it's Kevin Hart naked in the video. Is this the second video? This is the first video, second cheating instance in a matter of weeks with a pregnant wife at home. How many videos are we talking about? One video. Okay. Is this by the traveling stripper? This is with the traveling stripper.

Okay. You know, I just got taught something new, traveling stripper. Now, and Alexis Streschuk can ID Kevin Hart without his clothes on. Now, so we've got one video and three cheating incidents. One video, two cheating incidents. Alleged cheating incidents. Alleged, yes. Okay.

So now enter the extortion plot. Hold on just a moment. Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining me out of L.A. Dr. Bethany, you know, once you're caught, I think that that should teach you a lesson, you know. But then you keep doing it. Well, I see this all the time in my Beverly Hills office. I treat wives of pro athletes and um often their husbands their situations where the husbands cheat for years and the wives seemingly deny it and the husbands always seem to confess on twitter

and instagram what i had an experience the other day okay so they cheat and then they confess on instagram somebody's gonna get slapped okay Nancy, I had an experience the other day where I'm treating the wife of a pro athlete. I'm walking into my office. There's a news alert that pops up on Google Alerts that my patient's husband has a side chick. It's like at the top of my newsfeed, I sit there with the wife, I show her the article, and she sits there and denies it. And it's in print. It is black and white. Well, how could she deny it? Well, you know, one of the rationalizations is he's been framed. Or that was a long time ago,

I already knew about that one. Or everybody targets my husband. Or, I mean, the rationalizations and excuses just go on and on. Or the other thing they do is they engage in Twitter wars to defend the husband. So this one wife, what she did was she kind of stalked the side chick on Instagram and Twitter, found out all of her information, and then they had this very public Twitter all of her information. And then they had this very public Twitter war with each other. And so the women are fighting amongst themselves and the husband's completely off the hook. And, you know, I see, I watched this Kevin Hart, so-called confession on Instagram. And the first thing he says, Nancy, is I feel like I have a

target on my back. Now I can imagine that's true when you have that much wealth and that much fame, but the lead should have been, I'm sorry I hurt my wife. The second thing he says is, I've made some mistakes. I put myself in bad situations, yet straddling a woman's lap inside a sedan at three in the morning, yeah, that's putting yourself in a bad situation. But the way he says it, he really minimizes it. If I hadn't have seen the video, I would have thought the bad situation was he was, you know, at a nightclub at two in the morning and someone, you know, some woman kissed him against his will or something like that. But the bad situation is straddling a woman's

lap in a sedan at three or four or five in the morning. So he really minimizes his whole role in all of this. Well, hold on just a moment. I'm looking at this shot on TMZ. Yes, Alexis, I'm heading to Radar Online. Thank you. Right now. Okay. I don't know how the initials TMZ got entered into my iPad. I don't know who did that, but I'm just seeing this one picture, Alexis, and it's of Kevin Hart laughing his head off, and he's with this woman in a pink midriff top and some blue jean shorts. I don't know what they are.

They look like blue jean underwear, and he's laughing his head off in the bed. Now, see, look, the sex part, if that happened, is bad enough. It's horrible to cheat, especially your wife is pregnant and needs you now more than ever. But for some reason, the laughing part, the laughing part is what really would hurt me. And I don't know why. Because you'd think the actual intimacy part, the sex part, would be the worst part. But something about it, it's the laughing part.

Hold on, Alexis. You're not a shrink. Dr. Bethany, why is the laughing part bothering me so much? I would want to know more about what that means to you. But to me, it seems so heartless. It means they're having a good time and they're sharing they're sharing happiness not just you know sex you can get that from a looker for you know well in some places $25 but what I'm saying is um the laughing yeah We laugh so much. We're exhausted all the time.

Working like two dogs and trying to raise the twins. But we laugh a lot. David and I really laugh. And we always have. And that would absolutely, I could be like the NFL or his wife and go, Oh, she targeted him, blah, blah, blah, to make myself feel better. But the laughing and the having, sharing, you know, a funny moment or that, that's what would kill me. You know, the other part, Nancy, he's a comedian. And so he's giving the best part of himself to her. That's my thought about the laughter, too. You know, he's, He's really enjoying himself. It's not just, like you said, with a

hooker, satisfying an urge, but laughter is also a form of intimacy. It's true enjoyment. And his wife is pregnant. And I think that in my practice, when women and men talk about having been cheated on, there's one thing that they always say. They'll say, I was not in my husband's mind at the moment that he did that. It's the same phrase every time. I've never heard that. I was not. And men will say it too. I don't know how you get through to somebody like that because they don't want the relationship to break up.

Right. And they're trying to. I haven't even gotten to the extortion part. Okay, now I'm on RadarOnline.com. I'm not cheating anymore, Alexis, with TMZ. That's okay. But listen, why do you have your first picture? Is Kevin Hart in a stand-up?

Okay, I have to hit View Gallery. You do? Yes. Why? Why do I have to hit View? Oh, my goodness. Now I see why. Never mind. Okay, so wait to hit view gallery. You do? Yes, why? Why do I have to hit view? Oh, oh my goodness. Now I see why.

Never mind. Okay, so wait a minute. No. Okay, I get it. Semi sort of not safe for work. You know, it's okay. Here is a picture of, I guess that's Alexis or Infinity with him all over somebody in a car. Okay. I thought you were saying it was me in the car.

I was like, no, no, it's not. That's not me. Here's another picture of him in the car. Hold on. Here she is turning around looking at the camera. There they are, loving it up. Okay, wait a minute. I'm trying to get to the traveling stripper with her Daisy Dukes on.

Okay, I don't see her, but he's, oh, my stars, he's laughing in the car. That's the other incident. Okay. This is the July incident. Okay, Alexis, tell me about where I started. That was the only thing I was. This is the July incident. Okay. Alexis, tell me about the, where I started. That was the only thing I was interested in, according to me. Was the, quit laughing, Jackie. Was the bribery, the blackmail.

Tell me about that. That's what I want to hear about the extortion. So this woman, the traveling stripper. Traveling stripper. A video happened in this hotel room in vegas she is saying she didn't take it there's she and kevin are the only ones in the room it's a little hard to believe but anyway so she went to kevin and said if you don't give me some money i will release this video so how much money are we talking about?

So she wanted millions of dollars. And then she offered to take a lie detector test saying that nothing happened with them. But she wanted $420,000. I don't know what that, I mean, maybe that's a play on marijuana, you know, $420,000. But I don't know why that's whatever she asked for. It just is. So $420,000. But he started with, she started with claims of wanting millions? Mm-hmm.

And then said, all right, well, I'll take a lie detector test saying nothing happened for $420,000. Well, here's the deal. He did the right thing. Look, he's already in deep enough with his wife. He didn't pay the woman off. He went to the FBI on the extortion plot. I know this is going to put a lot of people's teeth on edge, but he's actually a victim. He is because look, again, I don't have

a leg to stand on because everybody's done something wrong. Maybe not cheat on your wife or your husband, or maybe not that, but something, right? And he did something wrong. He did it more than once. But none of us, I don't think, on this panel have never done anything wrong. And I can definitely say Alan Duke has done plenty of things wrong, okay? So, sorry, Alan. But so I'm not saying it's okay, but what I'm saying, the cheating, but extortion is a felony. So where does it stand to Alan Duke?

Alan, is the traveling stripper going to be charged with extortion, as she should? Well, this is an investigation, supposedly an investigation by the FBI. And who knows if they'll be charged? What do they find in the investigation? I don't know. We'll find out. So this is what we know right now. Kevin Hart

has apparently admitted to cheating on his pregnant wife, begging forgiveness, and is now in the center of a potentially multi-million dollar extortion plot. I'm at a place in my life where I feel like I have a target on my back. And because of that, I should make smart decisions. And recently, I didn't. You know, I'm not perfect. I'm not going to sit up here and say that I am or claim to be in any way, shape, or form. And I made a bad error in judgment and put myself in an environment where only bad things can happen, and they did. And in doing that, I know that I'm going to hurt the people closest to me Who I've talked to and apologized to Being my wife and my kids

And I just, you know, it's a shit moment It's a shit moment when you know you're wrong And there's no excuses for your wrong behavior At the end of the day, man, I just simply got to do better But I'm not going to also allow a person to To have financial gain off of my mistakes. And in this particular situation, that's what was attempted. I said I'd rather fess up to my mistakes. Okay, let's see how he gets out of this one. But I know this much. That's between him and

his wife. Extortion? That's between me and a stripper. okay? It's the last week of National Make-A-Wheel Month at LegalZoom. There's still time to take control of your family's assets and their future. Sure, there's a lot to think about, but that's why LegalZoom created an estate planning kit to help you get going. You get an estate plan checklist, an e-book, and other information to help you get going. You get an estate plan checklist, an ebook, and other information to help you decide what to do. And you can always get advice from LegalZoom's nationwide network of independent lawyers without being billed by the hour. Since LegalZoom is not a law firm. Hurry to LegalZoom.com now for your free estate planning kit. No obligation, just great resources to help you protect what you care about, your family. For special savings, be sure to enter code NANCY, N-A-N-C-Y at checkout. LegalZoom.com. LegalZoom.com.

Did a woman in Texas murder her boyfriend and dismember his body with a machete? When you put woman, boyfriend, dismember his body, machete in one sentence, okay, you've got my attention. Straight out to Alexis Torres Chuck. What do we know about this woman, Sierra Sutton, 30 years old? Well, what we know is that she apparently was dating Stephen Coleman. They got in a fight in her apartment. He went to sleep. Did you say dating? Did you say dating? Why don't they just break up? There's not even a divorce issue. They're just dating? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Boyfriend. Not even husband. So he goes to sleep in her apartment. And she shoots him in the head in her very own bed with her 10-year-old daughter in the living room, sleeping on the sofa, which I cannot believe. I guess kids are tired, and she slept through the whole thing, but she slept through the mom shooting him in the head.

Well, Sierra then panics, realizes she needs to get rid of the body. Instead of calling the police or doing anything, she decides to take a machete and chop him up into little pieces so that she can dump his body parts all over town, thinking that she's not going to get caught doing this. Okay, just out of curiosity, where can I get a machete? Joe Scott Morgan, crime scene investigator and forensic professor, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University.

Where can I get a machete, just in case my husband talks back to me? I've got one out in the shed if you need it. Oh! Hold on. Jackie's holding up a big sign. Home Depot! Exclamation, exclamation, smiley face. I don't know where her head is,

but apparently you can get a machete at Home Depot, according to Jackie. So she happens to have a machete and a sleeping boyfriend on the sofa. So I guess, ergo, you got to chop up his body, Dr. Beth Marshall. I couldn't be able to cut us through a steak with a machete. She cut up an entire body. And Alexis Tereschuk made a comment about the fact that this 10-year-old was asleep on the sofa. I doubt that. I think she just, when she started telling all of her friends about the grizzly crime,

she said, oh, my daughter was asleep on the sofa. But one of the things I learned in reading about this crime is that she dismembered his body over the course of a few days. So, and then when the police came to investigate, there was blood in the kitchen, There was blood in the bathroom. This was a very bloody crime scene. So the daughter is going to be very traumatized. The daughter witnessed a lot. And my second thought about this is that these women who kill their boyfriends and husbands, they usually have something called borderline personality disorder, which is marked by mood dysregulation, impulsivity and rage.

And boy, you know, they just have a hair trigger response. It was probably something pretty benign. She lost it. She shot him. She panicked. And then she stupidly had to try, decided to dismember the body and dispose it all over town. Yeah, I'm reading the investigation reports.

Investigators executed a search warrant and find blood on the bedroom floor, sheets, bathroom floor, sink, and kitchen floor, according also to newspaper reports. Joining me, as I said, Joe Scott Morgan. Way in. You're the crime scene analyst. What do you make of this? You're going to have a remarkably evidence-rich environment, Nancy. I worked in the morgue for many, many years, and I can tell you that just doing a dissection with the appropriate tools

is very, very difficult and a very messy process. You're talking about a woman who's essentially, even though you're saying machete, this is not a precision instrument. And it would have taken a tremendous amount of time. And what I have found in the dismemberment cases that I've worked over the years is the fact that many people do panic because they have this bulk of tissue that they're going to have to separate out. And they don't have the skill set in order to do it. And so it becomes a very messy affair at that point in time. You're going to have blood sprayed all over the place. It'll be dripped all over the place.

And in addition to that, she's leaving behind marks of individualization is what we refer to in forensic science. This instrument that she used will have a distinctive mark that can be compared on the bone that is found. And then you have all these distribution patterns where she's been placing these remains all over the place, apparently. It's a huge undertaking for somebody that's unskilled at it. Well, apparently after the death and dismemberment of her boyfriend, she took off from Texas and heads to Louisiana to Metairie, where I happen to have friends. Watch out, everybody in Louisiana.

She's there. Now, what do we know about what happened to the 10-year-old? What do we know about that, Alexis? We don't know at all what happened to her daughter. But what we do know is after she killed her boyfriend, she was in contact with his family, kind of asking them where they thought he was have you guys seen him i'm worried about him i haven't heard from him and then the whole time she's using his credit cards running up his bills pretending like she doesn't know where he is

and then she calls the police to report him missing as if she didn't know that he was lying dead in her bed and she chopped him up into pieces uh-oh uh-oh there goes the crazy defense uh to alan do you joining me. You know, you're a newlywed, again, but you're a newlywed, Alan Duke. Always a newlywed. I'm sorry. So you see what happens, okay? So do not give the new Mrs. Alan Duke any talk back. Oh, I learned in the first several.

Because now she knows. Thank you, Jackie. She can get a machete at Home Depot. I asked Jackie how she knows that. She wrote, I have one. Okay. I'm not going to ask that follow-up question. So, Alan, what do we know?

This has totally ruined her crazy defense because she used his credit card and faked phone calls to his family, according to Alexis Tereschuk with RadarOnline.com, going, where is he? And what she told friends also is rather incriminating. But this is the thing that strikes me. We just recently did a series of shows on Crystal McDowell, the missing Texas realtor found murdered allegedly by her husband. This was right down the street in Baytown, Texas, the same small Texas town. When you say she said incriminating statements, she made statements to friends. What, if anything, did she say? Well, according to the things I've seen, she told them

that she did this, that there were friends that she confided in. And that's really not something she can defend against very easily. Well, when Sierra Sutton was finally located in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, cops say she seemed, quote, unfazed by the investigation into her boyfriend's death. And I'm quoting, uncaring, no remorse. That's the best way I could describe her, says Baytown Police Lieutenant Steve Doris. Take a listen to what Steve Doris, the lieutenant, had to say just that afternoon. On August 18th, the Baytown Police Department began investigating the disappearance of 32-year-old Stephen Coleman.

Mr. Coleman was last seen on August 16th by his girlfriend, 30-year-old Sierra Sutton, who had made a missing person report on August 18th. In the following days, the Baytown detectives learned that none of Stevens' family, friends, or co-workers had seen or heard from him since the night of the 16th. Detectives also learned that both of Stevens' vehicles were still parked at the apartment complex that he lived at in the 1700 block of James Bowie, which caused concern for his welfare. During the course of our investigation, detectives uncovered evidence and information that led us to believe that Mr. Coleman had been the victim of foul play at the hands of Sierra Sutton,

including the fact that Sierra had confided to multiple people in Louisiana that she had in fact shot and killed Stephen inside their apartment, dismembered his body, and disposed of his remains. On September 14th, we presented the facts and evidence uncovered in the course of our investigation to the Harris County District Attorney's Office, and they accepted a charge of murder on Sierra Sutton. Later that same evening, Baytown detectives who were already in Louisiana following up on leads, along with Louisiana authorities and the U.S. Marshal's Office, located Sierra Sutton at an apartment complex in Metairie, Louisiana,

where she was arrested without incident. The evidence uncovered during this investigation, along with the timeline of the events, is consistent with the unidentified remains that were found in a landfill in Chambers County on August 22nd. These facts have led our detectives to suspect those remains could be those of Stephen Coleman. However, this has not been confirmed through DNA at this point. We have submitted DNA from the remains in Chambers County along with other DNA for comparison to determine if those remains are in fact those of Stephen Coleman. That is my prepared statement as far as where we are with our investigation. It is obviously still an ongoing investigation so please keep in mind I'm going to answer a few

questions. There are going to be certain details I'm not going to be able to answer simply because it is an ongoing investigation. Okay, do you think it's possible some of her neighbors were thinking just based on her that she may have had help any indication that speaking of whether she may have had an accomplice, we don't know that she necessarily had an accomplice. We did have some information that there may have been some other people in the area or at the apartment during this time frame, but whether or not they took part in anything, we just don't know that. Where is she right now? Ms. Sutton is currently in jail in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, awaiting extradition back to Texas.

Has she said anything to investigators who talked to her? We did have a chance to interview Ms. Sutton over the past few days. Obviously, I think there was one report that she had confessed to everything that had happened, which was not completely accurate. She gave some information that did put her in the apartment at the time of the event, but beyond that, I really don't want to go into detail about what she said in her interview. What was her demeanor like? Uncaring, no remorse. That's the best way I can describe it. Is there a motive? I really don't know what a motive would be right now. I don't want to speak to that. We do know that her and Steven were in a relationship.

As far as a motive as to why she would do this, we just don't know. Torso was found. Have any other body parts been found? And do you think that work could still be out there? Correct. The torso was found out in Chambers County in a landfill. That was on August 22nd. Is it possible that there are other remains at that landfill?

Sure it is. Those are things that my detectives are following up on right now as we speak. As you can imagine, it's a landfill. Keep in mind, all of this happened back in the middle of August when he came up missing. We've had a major event since then, Hurricane Harvey, which kind of put us back a few weeks on our investigation. Unfortunately, during the course of that few weeks, more and more debris and garbage has been brought to that landfill.

So it would make it significantly harder to find anything. Now, here's my next question to Alexis Tereschuk, investigative reporter with RadarOnline.com. What did she do with his body parts? Oh my gosh, she dumped them all over town. She dumped them in different places, but she dumped his torso. It was found in a landfill. So she really hacked this guy to pieces because she wasn't able to carry his whole body at once. So she put it in different trash bags and put them in different dumpsters all around town. And investigators found a lot of it, including the torso.

And they were able to identify him. There were different dumpsters, several dumpsters used in her apartment complex. But you're telling me, Alexis, she actually dumped his other remains at various spots around town? Mm-hmm. Now, isn't it true?

What do you make of this? Joe Scott Morgan, crime scene investigator. She herself called to make a missing persons report. That's pretty, pretty bold, right? Yeah. It sounds like she's trying to build an alibi for herself. And another piece of this is that she has spread this area of distribution out, which goes to a higher level of thinking.

You know, over the course of this idea that she's panicked, at least she had her wits about her enough to individually package these remains and then distribute them all over the area. A male torso was found in the Chambers County landfill that receives trash from dumpsters throughout Baytown and Pasadena. We're talking about in Texas. Before the torso was found, we know that Sutton stayed with the Coleman family as they looked for their loved one, Dr. Bethany. She stayed with his family as they were looking for him? Nancy, this is such a common story, isn't it? We see this with

Scott Peterson. We see it with all of these homicidal individuals who dispose of their husband, wife, girlfriend, kill them, dispose of them. They always search with the family. It's so fascinating to me. And it's as if they're trying to prove to the family that they are not the perpetrator. They try to feign or malinger empathy and that they're as distraught as the family member. And it's really bizarre. It reminds me of, I have a friend who works with sexual abuse victims and she had this startling experience where the father of one of the sexual abuse victims would occasionally come to therapy with his daughter crying and crying about how the daughter had been abused by a third party. And then the daughter finally confessed to the therapist, to my colleague,

that her father was molesting her as well. So he was trying to gain sympathy from the therapist at the same time that he was molesting his daughter and that's a little random that story I know but I think of the psychology of these perpetrators who align themselves with the family when in fact they're the one that committed the homicide they're the one that committed the crime and they don't think they're going to be caught and I think that matter of the credit card too, Nancy, I was wondering, was she just trying to buy things for herself, thinking that nobody would discover, or was she trying to cover her tracks

and create credit card activity to maintain the illusion that he was still alive? I was sort of curious about that piece of it. Well, I know this. I know his, the victim, Coleman's credit cards were used at a Harris County Walmart, according to investigators, and that she is caught on surveillance by duct tape and a mattress pad with his credit card. Okay, that's what we know right now. And in my mind, you do this, it's a death penalty case, and you've got your 10-year-old daughter in the next room. You're going straight to hell with a tiny, tiny pit stop on death row. That's what we know right now. Will it never end? Even as I say those words, I can tell you right now the answer is no. It will never end with OJ Simpson. Why won't he go quietly into the night? Oh yes,

there is another uproar as if the double murder, the beating the women, the stealing at gunpoint, the armed robbery, the fantastical not guilty, the sci-fi parole hearing. Yeah, there's something new. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I can barely fix my mouth to say this. I'm going to go out to Ed Losey, LA publicist to the stars. I know I'm in trouble, Ed. No offense and none taken, I'm sure. When I say LA publicist, when I start a sentence with LA publicist, I know somebody has done something wrong, okay, and they're famous. So, Ed, what's this all about? A petition to the Florida governor about OJ Simpson? What is it? And can I sign it? What is it? Okay. It's, this is a petition to the governor of Florida, Governor Rick Scott, who has the power to keep OJ out. The only reason

we want him to delay at least 60 days or until the infrastructure of florida is back they don't even have power and water yet what what do you think oj simpson will use more than his fair share of power they want to have a thousand media cameras he probably will over overburden the 9-1-1 system i can tell you that because he'll you know no telling who's going to be calling 9-1 calling 911 next on Simpson. But what's the problem? I want him to go there because I sure don't want him to come here. I don't want him walking across my backyard. So tell me the reason he can't go to Florida.

Somewhere far, far, maybe down hiding in the Everglades down in the Keys. Tell me again about this petition to Florida Governor Rick Scott to stop Simpson from coming to Florida. Repeat. Yes, it's Governor Rick Scott has the power to keep O.J. out until he gets the state back in order. There's thousands of people without power, without water, without food. What the hell do they need? 1,000 camera crews showing up, the airports being clogged up, hotels and people, and not to mention the wacky fans of O.J. that are already on their way.

He's getting out in just two weeks or less than two weeks. Why does Florida need that? Well, I thought that this is going to be something like, you don't want him there because he might kill more people or arm rob somebody. You just don't want him using your power and your water? Is that it? Because that's not going to work. You've got to have something better your power and your water. Is that it? Because that's not going to work. You got to have something better than that. It's the point of it was a good point. It was brought up by Detective James Pembroke, who wrote this book. This all started

with our book promotion. And he called me up and said, I've got relatives. You mean the authors of O.J.? Hold on. I'm plugging your book, buddy. O.J. The Killer, the minute by minute account of the murders of Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman. Right. Wow. We all have relatives in Florida. OK, we all have friends in Florida and they're hurting. And, you know, this was just just hit me beautifully when he said to me, you know, we need to petition the governor. He can keep O.J. out. And if he's not going to be released, he can only go to Florida. The parole board agreed to that. He can only go to Florida. If he's not allowed in, that means he has to stay in jail.

Bingo! That's what we want. So if it's 60 days, that's all we're asking for. Okay, see, that's a brilliant strategy. That's a brilliant strategy. With me is Ed Losey, L.A. publicist to the stars. Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst. Joining me out of L.A., Alexis Tereschuk, Radar Online investigative reporter, and of course, Alan the Duke joining us. So let me understand this. I did not realize, I've never thought it through, but I guess knowing the law or the Constitution, I should have figured it out.

A governor, you're telling me a governor has the power to keep somebody out if they're a felon? That's correct. The reason I guess I've never thought about it this way is because the Constitution, not as written by the founding fathers, they didn't write this, but it has been interpreted to mean that interstate travel may not be burdened. In other words, I can travel from New York to New Jersey to any of the 50 states with no Checkpoint Charlies, no taxes, no barricades, no crossing borders, but without going DEFCON 4 into constitutional law. You are telling me that you're convinced, Ed Lozzi, publicist to the stars, that aside from that constitutional provision, a governor can, in fact, disallow or prevent a convicted felon from coming into their state. Is that true? Because if that's true, why don't we just, why don't we just disallow all convicted felons coming into our state? He can stall them. He can't keep them out forever because the arrangements were made. And he agreed to allowing O.J. Simpson to come there.

All we're asking him is to use his power. That's his problem. To keep him out until Florida gets their act together. And they do not have it together. They are really hurting. And they're about to get hit with another storm in eight days. A big one. And it's, why do we need a thousand camera

crews showing up there and taking the spotlight off the victims of the storms and all about him, about OJ, all these people. And the news is going to be botched with nothing but him in Florida playing golf with his buddies. Now we want him to stay in, you know, in Nevada until California, until, until Florida gets their act together. It's just common sense. Ed, I want to pause because we're just rattling off facts about Simpson right now. Florida and so many other places are hurting so badly. If you go to our Crime Online website, you'll see a way if you want to donate, to donate through the Red Cross or through UMCOR, United Methodist Campaign of Relief, where 100% of your donation goes to

actually helping people. I know I have done relief after Katrina for the Methodist Church, so that's why I allowed that to be on our website at crimeonline.com. Thank you. But I just had to say that because what's happening in Florida and elsewhere is not just a headline. People are hurting there. I want to go to Alexis Tereschuk, Radar Online investigative reporter. It's been said that Simpson is itching for retirement life after getting out of jail which you know to me means um you go to a book club and you go to Costco around three o'clock

to taste all the tastings I don't know how I know about that you go for walks in those special shoes and I guess he would play golf. So do you really believe that's what's going to happen? Alexis, what do we know about Simpson's life post jail in Florida? What will it be? I think it will be exactly what it was before the Nevada prison stint. OJ loves the attention and he has his entire life he was a star like from high school on when he became a football star he is not going to stay away from the spotlight he can't physically oh I thought you meant partying with a bunch of Nicole Brown look-alikes with mini skirts up to their fannies um and the alleged use of highly fueled cocaine parties allegations only I mean I thought that's what you were

talking about. No? That's exactly what I'm talking about. He because that that's all he knows. And that's what he's gonna do. He's gonna go back to finding another young girlfriend. And like the ones that he had after Nicole, they're gonna call 911 because things are gonna turn ugly. You know, he had the audacity to say during that parole hearing that he doesn't lead a criminal life. That's, that's exactly what he's led. And I think that he's not going to change. He seems so unaware of everything that he'd done wrong at that parole hearing that I think that he's just going to get right back out and do everything again.

To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, joining me out of L.A. there with Ed Lozzi, L.A. Publicist to the Stars. Dr. Bethany, weigh in. I know that you are chomping at the bit. Go ahead. I am. I cannot help but look at this through a mental health lens and from a mental health perspective. And we all know that O.J. Simpson fits the profile of the sociopath. That's quite obvious. But one of the little known facts about sociopathy is that they have internal deadness. They have a proneness to boredom. That's what you see in the literature. And because there's this proneness to boredom, they have an excessive need for stimulation. So what does that look like with somebody like OJ Simpson? It's what you referred

to. It's seeking the limelight, attention-getting behavior, partying it up, drug choices of stimulants, probably not pot or something that would be a downer, carrying on in the limelight and in front of the camera. Now, I'm not sure if that's really going to tax the system, what the problem is with cameras at the airport. You know, I'm not clear on that aspect of it, but I do know that Alexis Dreschak is right, he's going to continue to do what he did before. And it's going to be excessive partying. That's all it's going to be. I also think about this from a social psychology perspective. And it seems to me that there's not only a fascination of OJ Simpson, but kind of a mass hysteria about him coming into the state. Look, Florida is full of felons. It's like all the crimes we've covered over the years. Most of them, 80% of them are in Florida.

A part of me thinks, you know, what's the problem with one more felon? They seem to be equipped to handle that there. So that seems to me to be the best place you should be. Can I tell you, Ed Losey, Dr. Bethany, Alexis Allen, some of my favorite books that I've ever read were Carl Hyasson. And he writes about Florida. And you know, it's it's hilarious, because people from all over the world go to Florida, and then Florida has to deal with them, just like they're going to have to deal with OJ of all the places in the world to go.

There he's going to be. You know, I'll probably see him when I try to get on the Disney ship with the twins. So long story short, Alan Duke, what is the reality about what, if anything, Florida can do about it? Well, you know, the governor may very well be able to ban a convict from the state. But specifically, I do know that OJ is depending on the Florida Board of Paroles, the parole officers there, to monitor him. Nevada has a reciprocal agreement with the state of Florida that they will monitor him and make sure he meets his parole obligations. If Florida chooses not to do that, then O.J. may not be able to go there because he's got to have a parole officer. But I find it very difficult to believe that a state can refuse to take on the parole or probation duties from another state.

Because we're kind of all in this together. Remember, we are one nation it's one nation i've never heard of this actually and probation are state-by-state systems if you're in let's say florida and you want to come to california and you are on probation or parole you have to get california to agree to take your case well i've never in all of my years heard of anyone refusing it when a defendant wants to. No, they don't, but this is OJ. Hello, hello, hello. Dr. Bethany and Alexis and I refuse to be interrupted, okay? We will not have men talking over us.

Now, if anybody's going to be a bully, it's going to be the ladies, okay? All right. I noticed an unusual silence. Jackie, I've never heard Alan Duke silent before. I better let me take advantage of it really quickly. Alan, what I'm saying is in all the years I prosecuted, I never had a state when a defendant had to move for his family or a job or something. I've never heard of a state saying, oh, heck no, we're not going to take his parole here. Forget it. I've never heard of that. I cannot name any examples, but I know that that is the case, that they have to accept it. If they don't

have a reciprocal agreement with a state, then you can't go to that state. Back to Ed Losey. Tell me again, Ed, how do you think this is going to work? Is there really a chance that Florida can keep O.J. Simpson out? You forgot to say publicist of the stars, but that's okay. Oh, publicist to the stars. Publicist to the stars. You forgot to say publicist of the stars, but that's okay. But that's not true, actually. Publicist to the stars. People have to know that I represent 26 law firms here in our business. So we do a lot of legal PR. So I work with a lot of high profile cases.

Publicist to the stars and law firms. The criminal case. I was there. I went through this. This guy has been intermixing with my life since 1995. I know what he is. He's more than a sociopath. He's responsible for murder, according to the civil trial. I'm only concerned about the citizens of

Florida. And that's what this petition is about. It's not about a thousand camera crews showing up in the airport being jammed and all that. That's not what it is. It's about the news being taken away from what's needed in Florida. It's about the six o'clock news hours and the 11 o'clock news hours talking about Red Cross and who needs what and pictures of people in pain and suffering, which generates care and money. When OJ takes over, there's not going to be any of that. It's going to be 100% takeover of every move he makes, everywhere he goes, right in the middle of the storm. Well, I want to reassure you, Ed. I want to reassure you that according to Simpson, he'll never be bad again. So, Ed Lozzi, L.A. publicist to the stars and 26 law firms,

what do we do if we want to sign the petition? You just go to the site, www.flgov, which is floridagov.com, and then contact and the governor's name,, which is floridagov.com, and then contact and the governor's name, www.floridagov.com, and just type in governor and you'll get his office and his contact information, phone number and email. Publicist to the stars, Ed Lozzi. Justice Scott Morgan, death investigator, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of LA, and investigative reporter with RadarOnline.com, Alexis Tereszczuk. Thank you. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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