Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Kidnapper Lures Girl, 10, With Candy and Money, 1 Block From School

Episode Date: November 11, 2022

Police are looking for a man who tries to kidnap a 10-year-old Florida girl,  twice. Surveillance video captures the man offering her candy and money.  According to the girl's mother, the man had parked the van on the side of the street, opened the door, and asked her if she wanted some candy.  The girl is able to escape. The next day the man again approaches the girl saying," you forgot your candy yesterday." A witness asked the girl if she knew the man. The girl said no, but at the same time, the suspect says he is the girl's grandfather. The witness told the girl to run.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: James Shelnutt - 27 years Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective & Former S.W.A.T. officer; Attorney (Gadsden, AL), The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm Dr. Scott A. Johnson - Forensic Psychologist (Minnesota): 32 years specializing in addressing sexual predators: Author: "When “I Love You” Turns Violent" and "Physical Abusers & Sexual Offenders" Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet;" Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Marc Klaas - Founder, KlaasKids Foundation; Twitter: @PollyDad Alli Neal - Co-Founder, Executive Director, Revved Up Kids Nicole Partin - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter; Twitter: @nicolepartin (Naples, FL)  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. A man dressed all in black targets a 10-year-old little girl not far from her school. She's on foot. The first time she gets away. Then he comes back. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111 in an upscale area of Florida. On day number one, the little girl runs for her life. Listen. A man in a black van first approached her Wednesday on her way to school, offering her candy. He opened the sliding door of his van and showed her the candies and told her to get inside and take a look at all the candies that he had. She managed to get away, but then then the next morning that same man allegedly approaching

her again this time on foot. He said hey you forgot your candies yesterday so she got frightened she rhymed she um seek help. Hearing our friends at GMA so after the first day when she gets away away, not to be scared off, he actually comes back. A 10-year-old little girl in a very nice neighborhood, apparently on the way to school, stopped. Joining me in All-Star Panel to make sense of what we know right now, first to Nicole Parton, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Nicole, the first time I understand that he was not on foot. That's right, Nancy. About 740 a.m., this little girl's making the block and a half walk to her school. She notices a black van right on the street where she's walking down the sidewalk. He opens the door of that black van and tries to lure her inside, offering her money, offering her candy.

Of course, she does the right thing, says no, tries to get away. A struggle ensues. During that struggle, she loses her school badge lanyard, her ID for school. He snatches that up, takes that with him, and proceeds after her on foot. You know what? The fact that he got that close to her, that he could snatch her, and the two struggled, and she loses on the first attempt, loses her lanyard, and he picks it up. Again, joining me in all-star panel, but first I want to go now after Nicole Parton to Mark Klass, founder of Klass Kids Foundation.

You can find him at klasskids.org. That's Klass with a K. Mark, he took that lanyard with her school ID picture on it. My twins have one too. As a memento and as a way to find her again, because you know, there he is right by the school. This is his happy hunting ground. And he finds a victim and he doesn't get the girl that day, but he gets a souvenir. Well, listen, I don't understand in any rational world how a child who is practically abducted on day one is allowed to walk to school by herself again on day two. But that having been said, she's no victim. She's a survivor. She did everything that she was supposed to do under the circumstances.

Her parents knew where she was. She should not have been alone. There's no question about that. But you know what she did, Nancy? She trusted her feelings. Something was wrong about this situation and she put physical distance between herself and whatever that was. You know, I think we need to shrink.

Let's go to Scott Johnson joining us, forensic psychologist out of Minnesota, 32 years in the business. And you can find him at forensicconsultation.org. Scott, thank you for being with us. Why do you think he grabbed the lanyard that came loose during the struggle? Well, definitely she's likely a targeted victim. And so not only as a souvenir, but to continue to pursue her, he's now got a picture, the school name, etc. So for him, it was really important to have that. But the fact that he didn't stop at that point, he continued to try to pursue her. Again, I think she's a targeted victim. And that's why, you know, he came back on day two.

To Allie Neal joining us, co-founder and executive director of Revved Up Kids at revvedupkids.org. Allie, thank you for being with us. How many times do you think this perv, before the second attempt, had come and stalked this little girl and watched her? I guarantee you he knew her route. He knew what time she would be coming. He knew she would be alone. I guarantee you he'd been staking out that elementary school for a long time. This was not day one.

I completely agree with you, Nancy. And that's one of the things that we always say to parents is, you know, stranger danger is a rare occurrence. But, wow, schools and bus stops, that's the best place to encounter stranger danger because the kids are on a very regimented schedule. And it's really easy for a predator to know exactly who's there and when they're there and are they alone and are there any adults around and are they walking on an isolated path and so of course it's easy for somebody like this to cherry pick their victim and know exactly the best way to approach them and when to mark class founder class. Mark, you were the one that first told me this incredible statistic about how so many kidnaps and kidnap attempts occur en route or leaving school.

The school bus stop, walking to school, coming home from school. What's that stat you gave me? The stat was from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. And the stat is that one third of all stranger abductions occur on school routes for exactly the reasons that Ali was just stating. I mean, everything is known. But given that knowledge as a society, there are totally a bunch of things that we can do. We can put up surveillance cameras. We can have neighborhood watch programs. We can ensure that our children are being escorted to school by at least other children, if not their parents themselves.

So this is a situation that can be mitigated nationally. If we really wanted to hone in on this, we could probably cut abduction attempts by a third in this country, given that knowledge. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be the will to follow through. I don't get it, Mark Klass. Knowing what we know, those statistics alone, 30% of all stranger abductions center around, revolve around school, drop off, pick up, bus stop, somehow getting to and from school. You know, another thing, straight back out to Nicole Parton, I carefully looked at the video and the photographs. There's no school guard crossing person. You would think that close to school there would be one.

There was not. That was about a block away. There is a school crossing closer to the school, but she was still about a block and a half out when this happened. So there was no crossing guard. There was no one there with her. I will say this happened just one block away from North Federal Highway, which is the main thoroughfare right down through downtown Fort Lauderdale. So this is not a rural country area. This is a block over, 740 a.m. in the morning, morning traffic, traffic rush. This is a busy, busy place. And this man is very bold to be right there trying to abduct this little girl. Just got Morgan joining me, Professor of Forensics,

Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of a hit series, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, this is reminiscent of all the speculation that was occurring at the beginning, especially in the murders of Abby and Libby in the Delphi case, the theory that a transient or a traveler had come through and assaulted and killed Abby and Libby, we never bought it. Because who would know about that trestle bridge, unused, out in some, you know, it's not really even a park. I would say it was more of a hiking area. A local really would be the only one to know how to get there, to know it even existed. Same thing here. I hear what Nicole is saying that this is near an interstate, But who else would know about this little elementary school, this little girl walking in there at this time? I think it's a local or at most one town over. Yeah. And to your

point about Abby and Libby relative to schedulings and schools and that sort of thing. Remember, those girls were out of school that day and always felt like that somebody would have to have knowledge of that, somebody local. We have this individual that is essentially loitering around a school that's looking for an opportunity to strike at any moment in time. But from a forensic standpoint, that's really helpful for us and for police specifically that are conducting the investigation because there's always a chance always a chance that you're going to pick up on something relative to behavior or images or movement or something like this that can tie him back and it could put him in that space and it all depends on what the police do relative to canvassing the area

and talking to people that may have seen this guy hanging around. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, this guy doesn't settle for failing the first time, trying to abduct and lure the little girl. He comes back for her. Take a listen to our friends at CBS4. Now, after the child took off running in the clip, you just saw about 20 seconds later, you see him turning the corner looking for the child. A witness in the area approaches them and asks the 10 year old if she knows this man she says no at the same time that she's saying no the suspect says yes they do know each other and that he's her grandfather the witness um realizing that

something's not right um instructs the 10 year old toold to run. The guy is so bold, Mark Klass, when a bystander's just standing there goes, hey, do you know him? The guy says, yeah, I'm a grandpa. He actually lies about it. And it reminds me of Shasta Groney. She and brother Dylan were spotted off the interstate. She was swimming in an above-ground pool, as I recall. I mean, and this is in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. If you fly over it, there's nothing but green. Very rural. But it was near an interstate, the way Nicole Parton had described this.

He saw her. He kills her whole family and takes her and her brother. He molested the little brother, ultimately killing him in some sex game he was playing on the little boy. And when they go to, ultimately, you know, weeks and weeks and weeks pass, they are actually in a convenience store. He's getting really bold, taking her out in public. And you remember, Mark, we had been covering every night, putting her picture out there, out there, out there. The convenience store clerk recognizes

Shasta. She had seen her picture and her kidnapper was acting like he was her dad and that nothing was wrong. That's some kind ofO., acting like this is your child or grandchild. You know, these people are very bold. I mean, the whole idea that this guy would have the audacity to come back a second day and go after the very same child in a very similar manner is kind of absolutely unbelievable. And it shows why once we identify who these characters are, we have to get them off of the streets and we have to keep them off of the streets to keep our children safe. There's no question about that at all. So it's a matter now of identifying this guy and then dealing with him. If he will be dealt with.

James Shelnut with me. 27 years Metro Major case, former SWAT, now lawyer at the Shelnut firm. James, think about the boldness of this guy he spotted the little girl runs he keeps her lanyard I guarantee you as a souvenir he knows where she goes to school now he has her full name but the boldness to come back again to get her. You know, I've found through many years of doing this and being in this line of work, there's two common things that bring boldness.

One we've talked about, which is familiarity with the area, possibly some familiarity with the suspect. But the other is experience. I don't doubt for two seconds that this is not this guy's first rodeo I don't doubt for two seconds that this guy is a predator that he's either done this or attempted to do this before and if he's not stopped he's gonna do it again right and he's he definitely you know what we'd call and on one hand the seductor child molester he's he believes what he's doing is okay he's calm about it but he's very psychopathic. He has minimal, if any, fear.

He puts himself out there. He doesn't get upset if someone confronts him, and very likely, you know, multiple, multiple victims for every one that we catch them for. So this is a very emboldened person who, you know, didn't do anything to disguise his appearance. He just doesn't care, and that's the downside of the psychopath is they don't care if they get a bullet to the head, go to prison or go free. They live moment to moment to moment. Okay, everything you just said is very scary that they would take a bullet to the head. They don't care. And another thing about his M.O. to Allie Neal, co-founder and director of Revved Up Kids at revvedupkids.org. You really need to go to that and classkids.org to find out everything you need to know as a parent. Allie, you hear what Scott Johnson just

said. He didn't even bother to disguise his appearance, But he was also using every trick in the book. I mean, hey, little girl, you want some candy? You want to ride? Here's some money. It's just the stereotypical child predator. The only thing he didn't say was, have you seen my puppy? And his van wasn't white, right? Yeah, it wasn't white. It didn't have a white van. You're right. Yeah, reading this story, I was like, this is the classic stranger predator lore that we talk to the kids about all the time.

And it's astounding that it still actually works, isn't it? Because you would think every kid in america knows this floor um obviously this little girl knew it too and she was able to run away she did run away on that first day you're right about that ally and to you um mark class following up on what ally neil just said from revved up kids she said you think every american kid in America knows this? And they do. But isn't it true, Mark? You can tell your child over and over and over. And they've actually done studies and experiments on children where they tell them and then they let the children go.

And a stranger comes up and says, hey, I can't find my puppy. And they walk straight up to the car. Mark? They're called lures,ancy um child lures and it can be it can be a missing puppy lure it can be a money lure it can be a candy lure it can be a promise to make you famous kind of a lure these guys are very practiced in in these lures and they know exactly what they need to say and what they need to do to get children near them. Now, we had a case in the Bay Area over 20 years ago of a little girl named Mitzi Sanchez who fortunately escaped

from her kidnapper. And it turned out that this guy, this taxi driver who had a very pronounced limp, would use that to get children close enough to him so that he could put them in their car, in his car, and then take them and murder them. And it went on for years and years and years until Mitzi escaped, and they were finally able to put two and two together and bring this monster to justice. And then it stopped. It stopped for another decade in the Bay Area before children started feeling unsafe again. And Nancy, can I just add to what Mark was just saying?

Sure, jump in. We are really good as parents at training our kids to be helpful. And the predators do use that because they know kids are trained to be helpful. So asking for help is one of the biggest things that they do. Like, hey, I can't find my puppy. Can I show you a picture of my cat? I'm lost. Where is the Methodist church? I'm all twisted around. Hey, I know your mom. I know you. I saw you playing whatever the kids got on a baseball shirt. don't you play baseball and the child just the same way they fall for this even though their parents have told them about these lures they're

children and they will go right out after you say don't do this and it's like fly straight out of their mind like a bird and the the shocking statistic mark, that we learned oh too well with, here's a good example, Samantha Runyon. I think she was three years old playing in the front yard, Mark Klass, with her siblings. Grandma was looking out the kitchen window. A guy pulls up, grabs her out of the front yard, and she is dead. As soon as he rapes her, she's dead within a couple of hours. Remember the statistic about how quickly after a child stranger abduction, the child will be dead?

If they're going to be dead, three quarters of them will be dead within three hours. If they're going to be dead, I think 90% of them or even more than that will be dead within the first 24 hours. So basically, these kids are dead as soon as they're snatched. It was exactly the same thing with Polly, exactly the same thing. And my counsel to any child would be under no circumstances, do you go with that individual. You do whatever is necessary to stay where you are and to stay alive and to put separation between you and the monster. Well, and you know, if we think about the monster, here's the one problem is that when we're talking psychopathic traits of lack of fear, lack of anxiety. This guy doesn't care about his face being known. He can blend into the community. He can be approached by adults and hold his own

ground so he looks like he belongs there. And, you know, we forget that no matter what we tell kids, this is a person that's probably looking okay, looking like they fit in. They're not threatening at the time. And that's just the problem when we deal with psychopathic or psychopath-traded offenders is that they can just simply look you right in the eye and explain 15 ways of why it's okay that they're there and you're not concerned. And they can absolutely convince a little child. And the StatMark class just gave you about the child and stranger abductions being dead within about four hours. I refer to Samantha Runyon. And we'll never forget Cherish Periwinkle,

who was stolen from a super center right under her mother's nose. And within a couple of hours, she had been raped and sodomized and murdered. Within just a few hours it was all over. Now back to this case out of Upskill Fort Lauderdale right near an elementary school one block away. Take a listen to our friends at CBS4. Well it's truly a disturbing story that we're reporting on this morning as the police are still looking for a man who tried to kidnap a young girl twice on her way to school. Let's take a look at that surveillance video. Now the video seeing now is of the incident. You can see the little girl at 741 Thursday morning running away from the suspect at Bennett Elementary. Now here is a

screenshot of the man police believe is the suspect dressed in all black next to this white car with dark hair. He is said to be between 25 and 40 years old. Interesting that he dressed in all black. But there's more. Take a listen to our friend Eva Pilgrim from GMA. This morning, an urgent search. Police in Fort Lauderdale looking for this man who they say blew a 10-year-old girl into his van on two separate occasions as she made her way to school. Offers her various things to try to bribe her into getting into his vehicle. This wasn't the first time he approached the same girl. On Wednesday the report as she walked to Sunrise Middle School. At some point, the suspect

exits his vehicle and attempts to grab this 10-year-old child. She drops her lanyard and the suspect picks it up. This same male approaches her, but this time he is on foot. He begins to engage in a conversation with her. Scott Johnson joining me, forensic psychologist. Why do perps keep souvenirs of their crimes? Well, they relive it in their head. And every perpetrator that I've interviewed, when we talk about specific victims, they can recall that specific victim, how they smelled, how they reacted, what they did. There's that memory tape of each victim. And so this is a targeted victim, at least at this point. He's got her ID. He's attempted twice.

And unfortunately, he will likely attempt again, not necessarily on the way to school, but somewhere else. He's focused on this girl. So now that he's got the ID, he can go home and, can I say, masturbate in his head about what he would like to do with this girl. So now that he's got the ID, he can go home and, can I say, masturbate in his head about what he would like to do with this girl. That's why he can come out and do what he does and not care if he gets caught. He's so wrapped up into the pleasure of his plan. Mark Glass, he's putting it mildly. I doubt he masturbated just in his head. He probably held that lanyard. He probably put it on. He probably smelled smelled it he probably rubbed it on

his body uh yeah it's not a pretty thought but what's even an uglier thought is what he wanted to do to this little girl before statistically he killed her you know i have firsthand knowledge of only one sexually sadistic psychopath and that's the guy that killed paulie and during a an interview in 1978 with a psychologist um in prison he said that he masturbates in his cell twice daily thinking about his past victims so these are the people we're talking about this is what we're trying to deal with here. We're dealing with the dregs of society and we keep giving them a pass and I'm not quite sure I understand why. And what's so scary about this case is that the guy is still on the run. Again, take a listen to our friends at WSVN. Fort Lauderdale police on the hunt this Friday for this guy. Surveillance video shows

this man tried to lure her into his van before school Thursday. Here's a closer look at the alleged would-be kidnapper. Police say he first ran in her direction on Northeast 15th Street in Fort Lauderdale and then turns and heads around the corner. He was wearing all black, a black sweater and black pants. He may be wearing glasses. He has short brown hair and he is between the ages of 25 and 40 years old. That's pretty vague, between 25 and 40. Nicole Parton, don't they have this guy on surveillance video? They do, that's correct. And I have looked it over. I know you have, too. And another interesting thing I noted, the second attempt, the second attempt, he's wearing the exact same clothes when interviewed and what witnesses gave to the police. He's still wearing that long-sleeved black sweater. This is his M.O. on his head.

He's got the image of how do I do what I do? How do I see myself what I do? Not uncommon. There's a uniform, if you will, that he wears that, you know, same clothes, same everything. That's not uncommon. Okay, guys, this is not the first time by far that a child has been targeted by a sex predator en route to school. Take a listen, our friends at primetime. A gray car pulls up. A man rolls down the window. And his hand shoots out and I just feel numb.

My whole body is tingly. I don't know what it's from. She had been paralyzed by a stun gun. I lost control of my bladder. I wasn't even embarrassed. On the ground, sharp edges of a pine cone are the last thing she touches before she comes to face down on the floor in the back seat of a car. The man behind the wheel is Philip Garrido, a convicted sex offender, supposedly

monitored by parole officers and doctors. Holding her down on the floor is his wife, Nancy. The district attorney believes Nancy scouted this little girl for her husband as a prize. Listen to more from Diane Sawyer. He takes away the pink clothes she dressed in that morning. The only thing she has left is a little ring shaped like a butterfly. She will hide from him for 18 years blanket over her head he walks her through a small area of grass toward a fence where an opening is concealed by a tarp and hidden behind the fence deranged collection of sheds and storage units which the people monitoring gorito would not search one of them tiny completely soundproof he leads her inside and takes out handcuffs. He said that they were the fuzzy kind, so they wouldn't hurt as bad.

There was a pallet on the floor. Then he said he'd be back later. He was back many, many times, repeatedly raping her. She gave birth to her captor's children, all under the auspices of his own wife nancy garito listen again i tried not to cry because i couldn't wipe them away or you know and then they get itchy and at one point she made a note to remember the sound of the train so it would help her mom find her. I was so lonely. I felt so alone. Have you seen J.C. Lee Dugard? And 120 miles away, the mother who loves her and will never give up goes on television to make her first plea.

She's a pretty, young, innocent child. Friends have been searching all day and evening. Police started searching the neighborhood. Police set up a roadblock and go door to door. Her classmates are out in the streets holding up signs. All that occurring, but nothing could help seemingly find J.C. Duggar. But she was ultimately found many, many years later, found alive with her children. And, of course, there is the case of Aliana DeFreeze.

Cleveland police are asking for your help to find an endangered missing teenager this morning. So take a good look at her picture. Aliana DeFreeze was last seen yesterday near East 149th Street. She was boarding a bus for school but then never showed up at school. Police say she suffers from mental health issues. Anyone with information is asked to call police immediately. The walk from Aaliyah's home, just a few blocks away from her bus stop. The walk from her house to the school bus stop, it's not long.

DeFreeze was a teen, that's true, but she had the mind of a little girl. She was mentally disabled. You're hearing our friends at WKYC and WNDU. Her case did not end as JC's did. Listen. Cleveland police are trying to figure out who would murder a 14-year-old girl. It is now confirmed that the body of Aliana DeFries was found in a vacant home earlier this week. Tiffany Tarpley joins us from the newsroom now. And Tiffany, investigators had to use DNA.

Had to use DNA to identify her. And once again, Mark Klass, just like the little Fort Lauderdale girl, she was on her way to school. Well, so many of them are on their way to school. So why don't we have safe houses on every block on these school routes? Why don't people go on to their state's Megan Law website to see what predators may actually, or sex offenders may actually live along those school routes so they

can deal with that appropriately why don't we take the steps that are necessary to mitigate stranger abduction in the united states when we know exactly what we need to do we know exactly where we need to do it we know who the victims are and we know who the culprits are. So I think it's time to arm ourselves as Americans and do what we did back in the 1990s and early 2000s. And that's take steps to protect the children in America from the predatory nature of these horrible, monstrous criminals. crime stories with nancy grace ally neil joining us from revved up kids along with mark class i want you to listen to this ally speaking of the bold nature of the Fort Lauderdale predator. Take us and our friends at News 6. You can see the man as he runs out of that van there and then tried to grab the girl early yesterday, but she fought back, sending the

kidnapper tumbling to the ground, and then he eventually runs away. Several hours later, deputies say they found the suspect partially covered in blue slime, which the child was playing with when the ambush happened. You saw the blue goo, the slime that's on the suspect that the victim had. You're not kidding anyone. We know who you are. We know you're an animal and we also know you're under arrest. Deputies arrested 30-year-old Jared Stanga. They say he approached the same girl just two weeks ago. Yesterday was the child's first time at the bus stop by herself since that encounter. What is he going to do with me? Where is he going to play? Where is he going to, where am I going to be at? What is my family going to think? Scared, anxious. A man came out of the car and he had a knife in his hand. I tried running off, but then he got me. He took me with his arm and I was able to get him down to

the ground and I was able to get away. You are hearing Alyssa's description of how she got away and also we're hearing Nicole Parton that the same predator had tried to kidnap her from the bus stop two weeks before and he couldn't do it. He came back just like in the case of Fort Lauderdale. Absolutely and again we're seeing just how bold these perps are. They are relentless to come back for victims. As had been said, they are targeting these school areas. They've been there. They've been watching our little ones. I have an almost 10-year-old son. He was mad at me a couple of weeks ago because I wouldn't let him walk to the end of the block for a community soccer game.

But we have to safeguard our kids. These people are out there and they are watching. Yeah, you know, Mark Klass, my daughter asks me all the time, am I ever going to get to go on a walk alone? And she looks at me like I'm the devil. I'm like, sure, you can go on a walk alone right now. And then, of course, I have to trail her you know at a discreet distance so she can't see me and get my husband to pick her up on the back end and it's just like because of cases just like this what do you think Mark of the guy coming back the second

time not just for Alyssa but in this case well it Well, it's stalking, isn't it, Nancy? I mean, that's what they're doing to these kids. In Pauly's case, the guy stalked her apparently for some period of time before he finally set upon the plan to kidnap her. You know, these guys are opportunists. They're monsters. They'll do whatever they need to do to get their prey. And I don't think that they're fearless about it. I think that they're very concerned about themselves. I think they want to stay on the street so they can continue to prey on little kids. And I also think, Nancy, that in our society now,

we put the burden of a child's safety on the shoulders of the children themselves. And it shouldn't be that way. We're the adults. We're the responsible ones. We're the ones that should be taking the steps necessary to protect our kids. Some of the things that we've talked about before, surveillance, better sentencing for these characters. Philip Garrido was in prison for horrible crimes before he got out early so that he could attack J.C. Dugard and hold a prisoner for 18 years. We identify them.

We know who they are. But we give them a second pass and a third pass and a fourth pass until absolute tragedy ensues. And then nobody wins. Can I add to that? Sure. I wholeheartedly agree that adults should take responsibility for protecting the children. But the story you just played, that little girl was scrappy and she fought back and she got away. And I think it's also important for us to arm the children with those kind of tools so that they know how to

respond if somebody's grabbing them. And they know that even if this person is bigger and stronger, I can do something to hurt them enough to get them to let go of me so I can escape to safety. So I agree, but I think it needs to be this multi-layered approach that includes everybody in the conversation, including the children. And you can find those tips at Revved Up Kids online and at Class Kids. Now, one big difference, James Shelnut joining me, is the Alyssa girl who was at the bus stop and managed to somehow get blue slime on her kidnapper. She told her parents the day that it first happened.

And for two weeks, her dad, I believe it was her dad, Jack, would take her and sit there until the bus came. And finally, they thought, well, okay, he's not coming back. One day, this is the first day she goes back and he comes back to try to kidnap her. That's not a coincidence, yelnut. No, no, this guy, this guy's familiar with the area. You know, this guy, this is a core area for this guy. I mean, he's been there before. He either knows somebody, he could even be working in conjunction with somebody there, with another predator. He knows what's going on in this area. He watched

the dad sit there and the minute he's gone, he's like a fox when the hen house is not guarded and he goes in and preys on this little girl. And Nicole Parton joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. This little girl in Fort Lauderdale, on the first day when the guy pursued her and got her lanyard, she did not mention it to her parents. That's correct. So we're being told that she mentioned it at school, but she did not mention it to her parents until the second day when it happened again. You know what's interesting? And we may wonder, oh, why was she afraid to tell her parents? You know what? I don't really necessarily buy into that. To Scott Johnson, forensic psychologist,

it's a funny thing what stands out in children's minds. Like I'll say, what happened at school date? Nothing. And then I go, well, what happened on your math test? And then they tell me that. And I go, well, what happened with that mean girl? And then they'll tell me that. I'll say, well, did so-and-so get kicked out for cheating? And then they'll tell me that big things do happen. And they just don't think the way adults think, Scott. Right. And we may need to ask better questions just like you did. You know, how was your day at school? And then specifically, what about gym class? What about lunch? And kids are innocent. They don't always know what's important or not important.

However, they may also have shame or fear about what happened because it was a scary new situation. But, you know, for parents to reach out and certainly to recognize if your kid's acting a little different i don't care how little different talk to them about that but what concerns me about this is if the school if she told school officials you know whether or not exactly or the carrier because that's a piece that would really well i want to say piss me off is that if they didn't call the police and the parent and not only that scott johnson an email and text should have gone out to every single parent of that school about the incident so nicole parton what happened on the second attempt so on the second attempt she's again 7 40 a.m she So on the second attempt, she's again, 7.40 a.m. She's on the same street. She's walking

to school and he approaches her on foot this time. No vehicle. He approaches her on foot and says to her, hey, it's me. You didn't get your candy yesterday. Do you want your candy today? She starts to run. She says no. And thank God there is someone watching who walks up and says wait a minute and says to the little girl do you know this guy and the little girl says no and the gentleman says the perp says oh yeah i'm her grandfather and the bystander says to the little girl run run as fast as you can get out of. And the little girl runs to the nearby elementary school and gets away from him yet again. This guy on the lam. He has not been caught.

He didn't get this little girl this time. But this guy is not giving up. Hear me. 30 to 40 years old, white male, 5'10 to 6 feet, brown hair. Believes he can be passed off as the grandfather. Tip line 954-493-8477. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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