Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - KILLER ATTORNEY ALEX MURDAUGH RETRIAL ODDS SKYROCKET

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Alex Murdaugh's former housekeeper, Blanca Turrubiate-Simpson, joins Nancy Grace.  South Carolina's Supreme Court has granted Alex Murdaugh's request for a new trial in the murders of his wife and son. At the heart of the appeal and review is whether former South Carolina Chief Justice Jean Toal fairly denied Murdaugh a new murder trial. The Supreme Court could reverse or overturn that ruling – and could order the court to give him a new trial. Another allegation is that claims that Colleton County Clerk of Court Rebecca Hill, being involved in talking improperly to jurors. A hearing was held with Judge Jean Toal presiding one juror, identified as Juror Z, said Becky Hill told jurors to watch Murdaugh "closely" and "made it seem like he was already guilty." When asked if this influenced her vote to find Murdaugh guilty, the juror said “Yes, ma’am.” Toal said Becky Hill was not a credible witness and denied Murdaugh a new trial.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Blanca Turrubiate-Simpson - Murdaugh's Former Housekeeper Regina Ward -  Criminal Defense Attorney / Law Firm of Regina B. Ward;  attorneyreginaward.com Caryn Stark - Psychologist, renowned TV and Radio trauma expert and consultant, www.carynstark.com, Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice Chris McDonough - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective,  Worked over 300 Homicides in 25 year career,  & Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room,"   www.coldcasefoundation.org/chris-mcdonough Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University) Jennifer Wood - Director of research at FITSNews.com, Twitter: @IndyJenn   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Killer attorney Alex Murdoch retrial. Odds are skyrocketing. Vegas rushing to take bets. There will be a new trial for Alex Murdoch. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us. After all that, that long and tortuous trial, the investigations, the twists, the turns, the cross exams, Alex Murdoch on the stand lying through his teeth crying. Now the odds are soaring that Alex Murdoch will have a new trial. And it all starts here. Listen. This is Alex Murdoch at 4147 Moselle Road. I need the police to pass this immediately. My wife and child just got badly.

I'm still here. Stay on the line. I'm still here, okay? Call us. I have an Alex Murdoch on the line. Call us from 4147 Moselle Road. He's advising that his wife and child was shot. Okay, and so can we listen to this again?

Oh, it's 4147 Moselle Road. I've been up to it now. It's bad. Okay. How did they shoot? Did they shoot themselves? Oh, no. Hell no.

Okay, and are they breathing? No, ma'am. Okay, and is that your wife and your son? My wife and my son. Are they in a vehicle? No, ma'am. They're on the ground out at my kennel. He got in the head, and he shot really bad.

Yeah, they're on the ground up by the kennel shot really bad because I just shot him apes. Did I say that? With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what is happening right now. How does it go from that guilty verdict to the judge on the bench trying to make a determination whether there has been jury misconduct? Listen. I simply do not believe that the authority of our South Carolina Supreme Court requires a new trial in a very lengthy trial such as this on the strength of some fleeting and foolish comments by a publicity-influenced clerk of court. This is a matter within the discretion of the trial judge,

and I am the trial judge at this moment. I do not feel that I abuse my discretion when I find the defendant's motion for a new trial on the factual record before me must be denied, and it is so ordered. That was Judge Toll. So how are we right here, right now with me and all-star panel to make sense of what we are learning as we go to air tonight, straight out to Jennifer Wood, director of research at Fitznews.com, who threw out the investigation and the trial, was breaking news left and right about Alex Murdoch.

And I'm pretty sure you got a lot more breaking news about Alex Murdoch, including wife Maggie's jewelry mysteriously going missing and a whole lot more. But how in the hay are we here now, Jennifer? Is it true that the South Carolina Supreme Court has just said, yeah, I know what the judge just said, but we want to hear Alex Murdoch's lawyer's argument just in case. Has this happened? They have not heard the argument yet, but on December 12th, his attorneys did file their official appeal with the South Carolina Supreme Court. So it's going to be very interesting. We're right now awaiting the attorney general's response to that appeal, which I believe is coming beginning of March. Of course, Jennifer, I can tell you this right now. The state's attorney general is trying to

hold that conviction. I wrote most of the appellate briefs on murder cases I tried, but the, on murder cases, the AG would also write an amicus curiae brief, friend of the court to bolster, to go along with, to partner with my brief. So I guarantee you the state's brief asking the U.S., the South Carolina Supreme Court to do what they want is going to be in tandem with the prosecution brief. They don't want this case heard by the South Carolina Supreme Court. But what I'm asking you, Jennifer, isn't it true that the South Carolina Supreme Court has given Murdoch's defense the okay to file briefs. They want to consider it. They have. They want to consider it. Okay. Joining me again, an all-star panel, Regina Ward is a high-profile lawyer,

criminal defense attorney there in this jurisdiction of South Carolina. And so it begins. Alex Murdoch is headed for a new trial because the Supreme Court did not have to say, yeah, I'll hear your argument. That is a big indicator, Regina, of what the court's going to do. I think that that's a possibility. But the brief that they filed, there were many, many more issues there. I think it was like 120 something or 130 pages. And so there's just this issue. Of course, there were going on 200 points raised by Hart-Pootling or the new defense team.

Of course, there are. Do they amount to a hill of beans? Probably not. But of course, they're going to raise every possible issue. But the South Carolina Supreme Court is limited to the facts in the transcript. If they are arguing factual issues or discrepancies, that's not to be heard by the appellate court. They are hearing legal issues. This is what I think will likely be the single strongest case for Alex Murdoch to get a new trial. And it all goes back. I never thought I'd have to say these words again to the egg lady.

Take a listen to her being questioned by the court. Was your verdict based entirely on the testimony, evidence, and law presented to you in this case? Yes, ma'am. yes what did ms hill say to watch his actions to watch his actions what else to watch him closely to watch him closely anything else you remember? There it is, but I can't remember. Okay, that's fine.

Oh, okay. She's on the stand, the so-called egg lady. And I was there when this happened. A juror was dismissed because of alleged misconduct. And before she left the courthouse, she said she wanted to go back in the jury deliberation room and get the dozen eggs she had brought to court that day. That's how she got that name. Okay. Wait a minute. She's on the stand. Let me understand this.

Jennifer Wood, Fitz news. She's on the stand to talk about everything. The court clerk did wrong, Becky Hill. And the judge says, can you think of anything else? Is there anything else?

She's under oath sitting there prepared for this moment. She goes, there is, but I can't remember. Did she, she did that. She did. Well, that didn't help the defense, but wait a minute. They make a little bit of a comeback. Listen. Was your verdict influenced in any way by the communications of the clerk of court in this case?

Yes, ma'am. And how was it influenced? To me, it felt like she made it seem like he was already guilty. All right. And I understand that. That's the tenor of the remarks she made it seem like he was already guilty all right and i understand that uh that's the tenor of the remark she made did that affect your finding of guilty in this case yes ma'am so this is all about the clerk of court beck Hill, writing a book. Jennifer Wood, Fitz News, explain. You know, I think, you know, like Virginia said, there are 132 pages of issues, but I think it's really going to come down to the clerk of court's behavior and whether or not things that she

allegedly said to jurors during the course of the trial had an impact on their verdict. You know, the two jurors said that she said before Alex Murdoch took the stand, watch his body language. One of those jurors, flighty or not about it, said that that did impact her decision whether or not Alex was guilty or innocent. Maggie and Paul lose their lives, gunned down in the dog kennel out in the middle of nowhere. And guess who's on the scene? Alex Murdoch. He claims he was at his mom's house a few miles away, but video and cell phone data and GPS data seem to indicate he is nothing but a liar. Back to Becky Hill, the court clerk, allegedly affecting the jury. And I guess, Jennifer Woods, it's because the defense claims that she wanted a guilty

verdict because her book sales would be greater and she would make more money. Is that their claim? That's one of their claims. And, you know, I've always thought about that and thought, you know, I think the book would have been just as interesting, if not more so, if he was found not guilty. I mean, I don't know if I necessarily buy that motivation. But yes, that is that is one of their theories. Well, I got to tell you something else, Jennifer Wood. Judge Jean Toll kind of handed this up, served it up on a silver platter because the judge comments on Becky Hill's credibility. Listen.

The facts. Did clerk of court Hill make comments to any juror which expressed her opinion of what the verdict would be. Ms. Hill denies A, and so the question becomes, was her denial credible? I find that the clerk of court is not completely credible as a witness. Ms. Hill was attracted by the siren call of celebrity. She wanted to write a book about the trial and express that as early as November 2022, long before the trial began. So what does that mean in your mind? Jennifer Wood joining us from Fitz News. The odds are escalating that because of that one issue,

and of course you pointed out there are many more that have been raised by the defense, whether they amount to anything or not, that there will be a new trial. How would that happen? How would that be executed? Where is Murdoch right now? Murdoch is in the South Carolina Department of Corrections. He is serving his two life sentences that he received as a result of this verdict. They would, you know, if they do agree with his attorneys, they will remand it for a new trial and we will start all over. After the so-called egg lady juror was dismissed, and remember, Jennifer Wood, isn't it true that Becky Hill was the one that brought the attention of the court to the egg lady to get her dismissed from the jury? Yes, that's absolutely true. It involved an alleged Facebook post

that she said she had seen in a local Facebook group. Nobody has ever seen that Facebook post. When she brought it to the judge's attention, she could not find it again. The post that she did ultimately end up finding was from the husband of somebody, you know, it was from somebody with the same name as her ex-husband in a different state and totally unrelated. So, I mean, I still have questions whether, you know, about this post, where is it? Did it exist? I mean, it was what ultimately partially led to her dismissal. So does the so-called egg lady have an ax to grind against the clerk, Becky Wood. That aside, the issue is, did the clerk affect the outcome of the verdict? Many legal eagles like myself say it did not,

but even the appearance of impropriety may be enough for Alex Murdoch to get a new trial. Doesn't mean he's innocent. H-E-L-L-N-O. But will that stop a new trial? In no way. Listen. Okay, what is her name? Maggie.

Sam, please, hurry. We're getting somebody out there to you. Me asking you these questions, don't slow them down, okay? Is he moving at all, your son? I know you said that she was shot, but what about your son? Nobody. They're not either one of them moving. My name's Maggie Murdoch.

Okay, and what's your son's first name? Paul Gary Murdoch. They are dead, aren't they? Just turn it on. Yes, sir. That's what it looks like. If there is a new trial for convicted killer lawyer Alex Murdoch and the double murder of wife Maggie and son Paul, what will the defense

do differently? Now they've got the state's whole playbook for Pete's sake. Well, for one thing, they're going to attack the video taken by son Paul in the kennel, the scene of the double murder, just minutes, maybe even seconds before gunfire rings out. Listen. One of the biggest issues hearing Alex Murdaugh on a video on Paul Murdaugh's iPhone when they were down by the kennel minutes before Paul and Maggie Murdaugh were murdered, a time Alex claims he was not at the residence. Paul's iPhone was found right away, but it was locked. The phone was sent to the U.S. Secret Service. Using digital forensic technology designed to bypass iPhone encryption, the Secret Service attempted to crack the passcode and failed.

What finally unlocked the phone and contradicted Alex Murdaugh's alibi? Paul Murdaugh's birthday, April 14, 1999. The six-digit passcode, 041499. Phone unlocked. Alibi crushed. Joining me is Chris McDonough, director of Cold Case Foundation and former homicide detective. Chris, question. cell phone to the Secret Service using digital forensic technology to bypass iPhone encryption they couldn't crack it and finally they cracked it it was

Paul's birthday really that's one of the very first one of the very first codes you try are various people close to the individuals birthdays yeah nancy and what happens there uh nine out of ten times is is just that point you just made common sense it's like let's try the first type of things first i.e you know birthday social security numbers etc but in this case they sent it off to the secret service and what what ends up happening the first type of things first, i.e., you know, birthdays, social security numbers, etc. But in this case, they sent it off to the Secret Service. And what ends up happening is they actually put it in what they call a blank room, meaning they have an algorithm that kind of runs through this phone over and over and over again to try to make matches. And remember, they did that years ago in the shooting in San Bernardino where they couldn't get into the suspect's phone.

So in this case, they were unsuccessful and they sent it back and the SLED was able to get the date of birth in there. To Jennifer Wood joining me, Director of Research, Fitz News. Jennifer, why is the video on Paul Murdoch's phone so critical? The defense has to have it ruled out or attack it in some way if they want to win the retrial. Yeah, that video is critical because it shattered his alibi.

He said he was not down at those dog kennels. And when they got that phone open and saw that video they realized he was lying. you're absolutely correct. they've got to be able to attack this video. hey let's see the video. roll it. Quit, Cash. Come on. Quit. Come on. Come on, Cash.

Shit. Come on. Push it. Cash. Hey, he's got a bird in his mouth. Bubba. Hey, Bubba. It's a guinea.

This is a chicken. Come here, Bubba. Come here, Cash. Come here, Bubba. Cash, quit. Come here, Bubba. You have to know what you're listening for. Jennifer Wood, the argument is made that you hear Alex Murdoch on that video. That is the argument.

And I'm not going to lie. I listened to Alex testify for two straight days and I heard that voice in the video. They are the same voice and what is Alex Murdock saying because this is this is the point of the video Paul Murdock the murdered son had a friend's dog in the kennel at the friends request the dog was going to be taken to the vet and it had some kind of a laceration or something or a rash on its hindquarters or tail. So Paul and Maggie were out there in the kennels after she had been lured there, by the way, by Alex Murdoch. And they're taking the video to send to the friend to send to the vet. That's why they're there.

And what is it you hear Murdoch say in the background? So they had a dog named Bubba that had gotten a hold of one of their either guineas or chickens and he's yelling at the dog trying to catch it. You hear him say something about a guinea and then say it's a chicken. Okay. Right. You can hear him in the background. And I remember you sitting there in court, listening to Murdoch drone on, and it really only got good when he started snotting and crying on the stand. But that said, that's his voice. And the jury believed it. Now let's, this is just, what would you say a minute or two before Maggie and Paul were shot? I mean, when he was saying that it's a

chicken, it's a Guinea, whatever he's saying, he had to have the gun and the plan ready to murder them. And you hear him talking to Maggie and Paul, like everything's fine. Within minutes, those two were shot dead. Paul, I believe was shot first. Maggie went to go defend Paul, and then she was murdered. What is the time differential there? I mean, like you said, it is within minutes, like three to five minutes. I can't remember the exact, exact time frame, but I mean, we're talking minutes. Paul Murdoch was that guy in the boating accident from a while back, if you remember. Y'all know Alex Murdoch. That's his son.

Good luck. Paul, dead. The son of Alex Murdoch. Brutally gunned down, along with Maggie, Alex Murdoch's wife. Where will the defense go when a retrial occurs? Vegas bets soaring now. There will be a retrial for Alex Murdoch, they're going here, attacking the state cell phone expert regarding Maggie's cell phone. Listen. Part of Murdoch's appeal of his murder conviction centers around the testimony of cell phone expert witness Paul McManigle of the Charleston County Sheriff's

Office. He testified about using his darkened office as a lab and tossing an iPhone around the room to see if the backlight would come on. He kept no records, took no measurements, then testified as an expert about what it would take to make the backlight come on. The importance is the state says Alec Murdaugh, based on his suburban GPS data, drove by the area Maggie's iPhone was located at 9.08 p.m., saying Murdaugh tossed the phone out of his vehicle as he drove down the road. But Maggie's iPhone indicated her backlight did not come on again after 9 0 7 p.m. The argument is that if Murdaugh passed the location at 9 0 8 p.m. and tossed out the phone, the backlight would have come on. But Maggie's iPhone didn't light up again after 9 0 7 p.m.

Jennifer Wood, that's a lot of speculation on the defense part. But if they can get one juror to believe that Maggie's cell phone light, the lamp, would have come on when Murdoch's navigation equipment on his Suburban shows where he let the window down on the passenger side to throw the phone out, by the way, as he was dashing to his mother's house to create an alibi. They would have to convince a jury that the phone absolutely would have turned on as it was thrown out in that soft grass. So tell me why this is so critical. Well, if the last time it lit up was before, before he drove by that spot, then he wasn't the one disposing of that phone and somebody else was there. Hello? Yeah. Can you ask the patient what kind of pain she's having? Ma'am, she can't talk.

Okay, do you know... She's cracked her head and there's blood on the concrete and she's bleeding out of her left ear. Okay, she's bleeding out of her ear? And out of her head. She's cracked her skull. Okay. Alright, did other ladies say that she had tried to stand up and fell down again? No, I was holding her up. Okay.

She told me to turn her loose and she was trying to use her arm, but then she fell back over. Okay, do you guys know who she is? Yes, she works for us. Okay, do you know if she's ever had a stroke or anything before? Ma'am, can you stop asking her to stop? Another death connected to the Murdoch family. And Alex Murdoch orchestrates an extensive and intricate plot to steal the insurance money from Gloria Satterfield's family. I'm talking about millions of dollars stolen, a deadly fall and about $4 million stolen by Murdoch? Oh, what a tangled web we weave. In the last days, another bombshell in the Murdoch case. Joining me, Jennifer Wood, Fitz News. Jennifer, what's the latest in the Gloria Satterfield case? Right. So Gloria Satterfield, the insurance company for that took Corey Fleming and Alex Murdoch to federal court.

That trial just occurred. And a jury ordered Alex Murdoch to pay $14.8 million in damages and his co-conspirator over $3 million in damages. And what we're talking about regarding a conspiracy, Gloria Satterfield falls down the steps at Murdoch's mansion. She dies. Then Murdoch, and correct me if I'm wrong, Jennifer Wood, Murdoch approaches Satterfield's family and gets them to hire him to represent them in an insurance claim. Then proceeds to steal the money. Do I have that right, Jennifer? I'm absolutely right. He stole the money. Joining me is Dr. Kendall Crowns, chief medical examiner, Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU.

Dr. Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us. Explain to me what happened to Gloria Satterfield. There have been so many theories. She was pushed down the stairs. She tripped over dogs. There was a delay in reporting it. No assistance was made, but you hear son Paul now dead and wife Maggie now dead on the phone with 911. So what were the injuries? Why did she have to die from a slip and fall, or as some have called it, a fake and fall? What happened? So what she had was injuries to her head.

She had a laceration of her right side of her head. She had a right-sided subdural hemorrhage, which is a hemorrhage on the brain, as well as injuries to the brain itself. And then she had left-sided rib fractures. So there's some comment that she fell or she tripped over a dog or she fell downstairs. The problem with these injuries is a right-sided laceration with a right-sided subdural is often from a blow to the head, and it's not from a fall. Usually what you're seeing is a right-sided laceration with a right-sided subdural is often from a blow to the head, and it's not from a fall. Usually what you're seeing is a right-sided laceration with a opposite-side subdural.

So it's not consistent. And then with the left-sided rib fractures, I mean, if she fell downstairs, there'd be multiple injuries about the skin and body that would show that she was tumbling downstairs, resulting in all these injuries. So the injuries are inconsistent with the story that's provided. Wow. When you put it like that, it makes the fall seem very, very nefarious. Doesn't it, doctor? Guys, joining me in addition to medical examiner, not just medical examiner, chief medical examiner,

Dr. Kendall Crowns, is a very special guest joining us, Blanca Simpson, the Murdoch's former housekeeper and friend of Gloria Satterfield. Blanca, what was your reaction when you learned Gloria had fallen down those steep steps and died? It was heartbreaking. She was a very nice lady. She would do anything for you. And you two were fairly close, weren't you?

Yes. While we were there, she would tell me about her children, her life. She loved working for Maggie and Alec. Blanca, I want to ask you about the days that preceded Maggie and Paul's murder. A few months before the murder, I believe Maggie told was in a boat with Paul driving drunk, horribly drunk. Maggie was worried about that money and Alec knew it because when the first time she ever mentioned, they ever mentioned it, it kind of hushed up right there at the counter in the kitchen. And then after that, that's when I came in that morning, probably a couple of days later,

and I guess they had discussed it. I'm not sure, but that's when I came in and she said, I got to tell you something. And that's when we went in there and she finished telling me everything else you know that where were they gonna get that money they didn't have that kind of money and she just couldn't understand what was going on and it wasn't that she was trying to be that she was trying to cover up anything. I listening to her, she really did not know what the total extent of the of the lawsuit. She didn't know. She knew bits and pieces, but she didn't know exactly what was going on. But she was crying and upset and told you confidentially

that there was a multi-million dollar lawsuit against the Murdoch family because of that boat crash and that they didn't have that kind of money. That's correct. Alec didn't like any crying. I remember her telling me that if he ever says anything and you feel bad or he makes you feel bad, just don't let him see you cry. So I believe that's why we went in that room, even though he was there at the house, but he was all the way on the other side. And when we went in there, she could express herself. No judgment. I had no reason to judge her. I just listened to her. So Maggie would have to walk off in another room and shut the door so Murdoch would not see her cry?

Yeah, she didn't cry in front of him. That was just one thing. Even if sometimes he would say something, we just, you just don't cry in front of him. He didn't like that. It didn't, you know, it wasn't going to affect how he felt or whatever the situation was. So I do. That was from the very beginning. I remember when I first started working there, when Gloria was still there, Even Gloria made that comment to me.

What comment? About if he says anything that might hurt your feelings, don't let him see you cry. What was Murdoch like to work for? He was good to me. I never had an insight. I know there's people that want me to speak badly about him or say things, you know, as far't, I know there's people that want me to speak badly about him or say things, you know, as far as when I worked there, um, he was always, um, he was always very nice to me. Um, anything that I needed, um, yes. I want you to understand that I don't want you to say anything other than the truth, because believe me, I've seen plenty of killers, stone

cold killers that had everybody else charmed. So I'm, I'm not surprised at all. I mean, how do you think he got all those bank loans for millions and millions of dollars? He charmed the bank into thinking that he could pay it all off. He charmed all of his clients and stole their money. I agree. Even clients that were quadriplegics. So I would not expect anything different because he needed you.

He needed you to see him in a certain way. Now, I'm curious. Many people have told me, hey, that's not an evidence. That's not true. But isn't it true that the night of the murders, Maggie told you she had been called to the hunting lodge, Moselle. She didn't want to go because she was at the beach house and didn't want to leave yet. But Murdoch called her and convinced her to come to Moselle the night she was murdered. She did and I have the text where she said she didn't really want to go.

I still have her text on my phone. Tell me what she said. She had workers at, she still had workers out there at the beach house and she felt that she needed to just complete all the finishing touches in, you know, that were, there were still some little projects that had to be completed at Edisto, and she just wanted to be there. She was very, like I said in my testimony, she was very detail-oriented. It had to be, you know, perfect in her eyes. And that's one of the reasons she wanted to be there. She knew that I had Moselle and if anything came up, I was at Moselle and she felt comfortable. So I handled pretty much, you know, Moselle, whatever came up, whatever needed to be

done. I took care of Moselle and she felt comfortable staying at Edisto and we just used to talk. And if she needed for me to take care of anything, she would just give me a call or text me. But that, that on June the 7th, she texted me that Alex wanted her to come home and Paul as well. And she, and, and that was, um, I meant what I said. She was hesitant to come to Moselle. She didn't want to come to Moselle, despite the fact that, yes, she did love Mr. Randolph. Mr. Randolph was really good to her. And that would have been Alex Murdoch's father is Mr. Randolph.

Yes. You know, I'm thinking about this call, the text from Maggie. At that time, Ms. Simpson, did you have any reason to suspect Alex Murdoch? No. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Alex Murdoch, double killer, convicted lawyer, gets a new trial. Is that where we're headed? According to Vegas Odds, yes. Joining me right now, special guest Blanca Simpson, former housekeeper for the Alex Murdoch family. Blanca, another critical point regarding your perspective is that the night of the murders, just before Paul and Maggie were shot dead, you were actually

at the home at Maggie's request and you made supper, right? Yes, I did. And then the next morning you got a phone call from Alex Murdoch. What happened? Alex called me as I was getting my husband ready to go to work that morning. And I was getting ready as well to go out to Moselle. And he, that's when he tells me they're gone, B, you know, they're gone. And like I said, in my testimony, I thought that's like, did she go back to Edista? She said, no, B, they're dead. And I still, I can still hear him repeatedly saying that in my head, you know, they're dead. What was his demeanor? How did he sound? He was jittery, crying, you know

having small episodes of crying, you know. You could tell he sounded distraught. I was in shock to tell you the truth. Blanca, he asked you to come clean the house up. I know you found pots of leftovers in the kitchen, but you've also noticed something very odd about Maggie's pajamas. What? Her pajamas were in the middle of the doorway going into the laundry room, which is usually the first place that I went when I got there. I used to drop off my keys in there and my phone, go straight in the laundry room. That morning when I walked through, I left all the lights off. I just walked in and it was just a cold, eerie feeling that went through me. And it was just the thought that, oh, my God, you know, I still could not grasp the concept

that I was never going to see them again. And, you know, I was never going to. When you're talking about her pajamas being laid out neatly in a doorway, they also had with them underwear. Was it, were they laid out, what were they on the floor or were they on a hanger? Where were they? They were on the floor. When you say laid out neatly, what do you mean? Laid out, flat, neatly.

It was like the pants were spread out, laid out. Then you had the underwear and then her pajama top stretched out on top neatly. They weren't folded. Maggie would never have done that. Plus she didn't wear underwear to bed, right? That is correct. She didn't do that. And I stand by that. She did not do that. That was not her. Several weeks later, Alex Murdoch called you, well, actually got together with you. And he was very agitated, pacing back and forth, asking you about what you remembered regarding the night Maggie and Paul were murdered. What did he ask you? He was pacing back and forth in the living room and he kept going back and forth.

He's like, sit down, B, sit down. I got to tell you something. Something's not right. And he said, I got a, you know, I got a bad feeling. And he, at that point he motioned and he touched his stomach. He said, I got a bad feeling. I got a bad feeling. And then he

says you remember what I was wearing that day you know the Vinny Vines and like I said I was kind of like mmm you know no that's not what and I understand that people have said well Vinny Vines also makes, you know, I should have described it better on the stand when I said, no, you weren't wearing a Benny Vines. He, that Benny Vines also makes the fishing style shirt. What was he wearing? He was wearing a sea foamy green polo shirt when he left that house. Wow, you've got a good memory. So Jennifer Wood joining me, Director of Research for its news,

that's critical because in these video that we're showing, the video we're showing right now, when the cops get there, he is wearing a Vineyard Vines, Vinnie Vines t-shirt that he was trying to convince Blanca to say he was wearing when she talked to him. Why is that so critical, Jennifer?

You know, it's just another, another serious, it's another lie in his web of lies. I mean, why, why, why ask her to verify something that wasn't true? And in my mind, more importantly, Chris McDonough, homicide detective, why did he change clothes before police arrived? And what happened to the seafoam colored shirt Blanca remembers him wearing? Think it might have had a little bit of blood spatter on it? Yeah, exactly, Nancy. Blood transfer. And remember the first question the cops asked him when they got on the scene?

They started asking about the firearm, and he shifted that conversation immediately to the boat wreck. He's classic. This guy is classic. We wait as justice unfolds in the Alex Murnaug double murder case. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.