Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Killer Dad Chris Watts makes 'friend' behind bars

Episode Date: July 17, 2020

Killer Dad Chris Watts has apparently made friends behind bars. A new book reports he's become close to the young man who kidnapped teen Jayme Closs and killed her parents. The book's author writes that friendship has developed through Bible study. He also reports Watts has photos of his dead family posted in his cell.Joining Nancy Grace today: Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills Sheryl McCollum - Director of the Atlanta Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" Sean Walsh - DailyMail.com, MailOnline & DailyMailTV John Glatt - Author of "The Perfect Father: The True Story of Chris Watts, His All-American Family, and a Shocking Murder" (available 7/21) Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. The name Chris Watts will live in infamy after the murder of little girls, but believe it or not, has he had second thoughts behind bars? Apparently the inside of his jail cell is plastered with photos of his dead wife and two little girls, Bella and Celeste. And catch this. He has struck up an unusual friendship with another perp behind bars, the kidnapper, Jake Patterson, who swiped Jamie Closs and murdered both of her parents. Now, gee, what do these two have in common? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now, in case you don't remember, take a listen to Killer Dad Chris Watts.

I was just like, I didn't know what was going on. It was like a traumatic, I don't know what you call it, traumatic event type thing. It's kind of hard to hear, but you are hearing killer dad Chris Watts telling investigators that after he murdered his wife, he, quote, didn't know what happened. Really? Because then his daughter killing both of his daughters taking them to an oil production site where he works and shoving them down huge crude oil receptacles actually about this big around about 11 inches wide at the top he had to push their bodies down tearing and crushing their shoulders to get them hidden then burying his wife shenan in a shallow

grave so this guy starting a friendship behind bars with another known mass killer. Joining me in All-Star Panel to try to figure it out, break it down, put it back together again with me, renowned psychoanalyst from Beverly Hills, Dr. Bethany Marshall. You can find her at drbethanymarshall.com, director of the Cold Case Research Institute and I Can Verify a Crime Scene expert, Cheryl McCollum, death investigator, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan, special guests joining us. Sean Walsh joining us from Daily Mail. And John Glatt, author of The Perfect Father, The True Story of Chris Watts, His All-American Family, and A Shocking Murderer.

It will be available everywhere on Tuesday. Let me start with you, Sean Walsh, a longtime colleague and friend, joining me from Daily Mail, which, you know, is after crime online. One of the first things I read every single morning. Sean Walsh, you report that killer dad Chris Watts has plastered his jail cell walls with photos of his murdered family and struck up a friendship with Jamie Closs' kidnapper. He left out the fact that he murdered both of her parents trying to get her.

Jake Patterson, after bonding over Bible studies behind bars. Hey, I'm all for the Bible. And I'm happy those two are, let's just say, finding a new life behind bars, but that's where they need to stay. So how do you know all this, Sean Walsh, Daily Mail? Well, you know what? We were very lucky to get the first look at a brand new book called The Perfect Father. And in this new book, they take us through what could be described as a remake of the hit television show The Odd Couple. But these are two of the most odd men anyone will ever encounter. Hold on right there, Sean Walsh.

Odd. I don't know if I would call two mass killers odd, because don't you think that's kind of putting perfume on the pig, a little euphemistic? Because to you, Cheryl McCollum, these are two of the most heinous crimes I've ever seen. Break it down, Cheryl. Oh, I think they've got a lot in common.

I bet they were fast friends. Nancy, when I think about him having the photographs plastered all over his jail cell, I think of folks like Johan van der Sloot and Inmar Guadicke, with Chandra Levy and Natalie Holloway specifically. Of course that's what he's done. That's how he is displaying what made him famous. It's the same as displaying a trophy for him. You know what, Cheryl?

Sometimes I worry about you because, you know, my vivid recollections, my first image of you is at a crime scene really doing your thing. What was that, about 2 o'clock in the morning, you say, when I pulled up and saw you there? Yeah. And for you to talk about them so euphemistically, just like Sean Walsh did, plus you're scaring me in the fact that you get into their head.

I mean, Dr. Bethany Marshall, for Cheryl McCollum to refer to these photos plastered on their walls of their dead victims as trophies. Maybe she's right, Bethany. I actually thought that was brilliant. I was blown away when she said that because I had a much deeper analysis of the situation, but I could be wrong. I was thinking that Chris Watts' killer dad has something called alexithymia.

Alexithymia is when people use words and make gestures as if there is a deep emotional meaning, but actually they are completely incapable of bringing meaning to the words. The example I always use is the BTK killer when he was defending himself in court and he said, oh, I'm such a nice guy. You know, when I killed that one girl, you know, before I strangled her, you know, I put her head on a pillow and I brought her a glass of water and she was crying and I comforted her. And the word comfort did not mean the same thing to him as it does to you and me. In fact, it had no meaning at all. So using words that appear deep in nature but actually have absolutely no meaning. So when Chris Watts plasters the pictures all over the place and talks about writing letters to his little girls and how much he loves them,

it means absolutely nothing. But actually, I think Cheryl's right, not me. I think his family made him famous, and he's clinging to them as trophies, or it could be both, Nancy. It's a complicated situation. You know, to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.

Just let's give everybody a little reality check just a little shake them and wake them what happened to the bodies of the two little girls bella and celeste and don't hold back joe scott morgan tell the truth hey joe scott the first time you testified in front of a jury and you had to recount details like this? I remember the first time I had to curse in front of a jury. I mean every word, the P word, the C word, the F word, the every word. I could hardly say I was reading from a defendant's confession what he said. Well, suddenly the next trial it got a lot easier. By the time I was done prosecuting I was swearing like a sailor. had to swear it off pardon the pun when i gave birth to the twins but don't glaze over it is as

much as you are used to describing this tell me the way he disposed of these two little girls girls. Nancy, he dumped these children into these unrefined oil tanks. They contain unrefined oil or petroleum. And he put them in through, and this is quite interesting, a term. He put them through a little door that's referred to as a thief hatch. You know, we could go on with metaphors all day long, but after he robbed them of their lives, he stuffed them down through this little opening. If you'd mentioned 10 inches, I think it was actually 12 inches. I mean, eight inches that he had to pass these bodies through. And as he was trying to pass them through,

there was tufts of hair that were caught in the latch, as well as peeling back the top layer of skin. Bella actually, on her buttock, she had a big scrape where the skin had been kind of raked away as he forced the bodies through there. Of course, the toughest part of this he forced the bodies through there. Of course, the toughest, toughest part of this is getting the shoulders through there. And then after he did this, he, you know, these, these bodies, they were both separated. They were in two separate containers. He dropped them in to these containers, which in fact contained raw petroleum. This is not refined oil. And so at this point, you have substances that these bodies, these two little precious angels' bodies were floating around in that contain chemicals like toluene. You know, toluene is actually a component that's found in TNT, Nancy. It's something that's

used to strip paint with. It's highly, highly caustic. And their bodies, you know, we think about decomposition in these circumstances like this. The process was not just decomposition. It was literally a chemical breakdown of the bodies. This animal knew what he was doing. He worked in this industry. He knew what the possibility was. And it wasn't just a matter of hiding their bodies. It was a matter of disintegrating them, literally rendering them down in this environment.

And at the end of the day, it's so toxic that the teams that went out to reclaim these bodies, you know, you have to drain these things in order to get in there. They created an, he created an ecological disaster with this and exposed all the crime scene investigators to this. This guy is a monster. There is no doubt in my mind. Yet, in his jail cell, according to Sean Walsh at Daily Mail, he's plastered these picture-perfect photos of his dead wife and children

and has struck up an unusual friendship with killer Patterson, who kidnapped a girlended Jamie Closs's kidnapper. For those of you that recall, Jamie Closs, beautiful redheaded little girl, got off her school bus and this perv had been stalking her, saw her get off the school bus and says, quote, he had been thinking of kidnapping a girl for two years and that if it, quote, wasn't Jamie, it would probably be someone else. Take a listen to our friends at CBS, Jackie. Here's the news out of Wisconsin, and it's a shocker. A 21-year-old Wisconsin man has been charged in the kidnapping of 13-year-old Jamie Closs and the murder of her parents.

This is sort of a miracle story investigators say they believe jake thomas patterson killed jamie's parents because he wanted to abduct her he was identified by police just minutes after jamie gave a detailed description and the good news is jamie is alive and according to police she is well adriana diaz is follow Wisconsin. Nearly three m disappeared. Jamie Claus and safe in cases like th big break and it was jamie us that break at a news c

the sheriff's department g the case. Jamie was taken to a local hospital up in Duluth Superior area where she was looked over and examined and she was held overnight for observation. Kloss had been missing since October 15th after police discovered someone had broken into her family's home in Barron and fatally shot her parents. For months, police and volunteers searched for the 13-year-old. For those of you just joining us, these two, Patterson, Kloss's kidnapper,

and killer dad Chris Watts, now have made friends behind bars. To you, Sean Walsh, Daily Mail. When I think of these two fraternizing behind bars, I can only think of a scene from Shakespeare where witches are stirring a pot at night over a fire, cackling, double, double toil and trouble. These two, Satan and Beelzebub, have made friends. I could just see them, you know, twitching their tails and gnashing their teeth. Do you ever, how does it weigh on you, Sean Walsh, when you're constantly reporting on evildoers?

I mean real evildoers, like the killer dad and the Kloss kidnapper. And you can't forget Kloss's parents are the worst. I mean, not only did he kidnap her, but he took her mother and father away from her forever. You say birds of a feather flock together, and according to the perfect father, Watts met the double murderer, Patterson, when they were placed together in neighboring cells just after he arrived in the Wisconsin jail in December of 2018. The pair have apparently become so close that Watts will step in and calm Patterson when he's getting angry with other prisoners because there are a lot of nasty catcalls that get called out to them by the other prisoners. I can imagine they're not exactly two of the most popular guys inside the jail. You know, I forgot to mention that Shanann Watts was pregnant at the time her husband murdered her,

and she suffered coffin birth after he murdered her. When her body was found in a shallow grave there at the oil fields, she had actually given birth when she was killed, and the baby, Nico, as I recall his name, was actually there, I think, in her underwear, dead. I mean, the scenario is awful. Guys, you're hearing Sean Walsh, who is a big honcho at Daily Mail, who has reported on this. He keeps referring to the perfect father, the true story of Chris Watts, his all-American family shocking murder, available Tuesday. Right now with me, a very special guest,

John Glatt. John, you literally wrote the book that propels Sean Walsh to send me this story about these two befriending each other. I can't wait. Just tell me everything. Start at the beginning. Right. Well, I mean, I was doing the book, and I happened to be in Spring Lake, North Carolina, and I wanted to interview Chris's parents. And I came over, and his mother, Cindy, happened to be mowing the lawn. And so I went over

introduced myself. She said she couldn't talk to me. I gave her a business card and then I went to Chris's school and about an hour later my phone went and it was Cindy and she very much did want to talk because I don't think she really had anybody to talk to about this and we developed a relationship over the next year where we talked a lot and she she would ask me what I thought about Chris because she really was baffled by what had happened and at great odds to understand it and she would really fill me in with what was going on with Chris, you know, when he did the plea deal and everything like that. And she told me about his friendship, in fact, with Jake Patterson that had developed. I should, in fact, add that Jake Patterson was discharged. He'd been moved to

another jail about six months ago. So it was only a short period of time that they were close, but they became very good friends. And also their parents did. I think Ronnie Watts and... With me, John Glatt, author of The Perfect Father. So you got to know killer dad, Chris Watts' mother. What did you learn? I really liked her. She was a really, really nice lady, completely helpless. She had no idea that her son, why her son had done this. And she believed him because initially Chris had denied killing the two little girls and accused Shanann of doing it and said he came in, he murdered Shanann after that she did the two little girls.

Nobody else believed it, but obviously Chris Watts' parents were loyal and they wanted to believe this. And it took a long time until he actually kind of admitted to doing this in the plea deal that they came around to believe that he actually had. And even now I think they have second thoughts. Really? So the parents to this day are not convinced their son, Chris Watts, to believe that he actually had. And even now, I think they have second thoughts. Really? Yeah. So the parents to this day are not convinced their son, Chris Watts,

murdered Shanann, Bella, and Celeste? Well, to be honest, some days his mother thinks she did, he did, and other days he thinks he didn't. And Chris Watts has never told anyone exactly what happened. There's been so many different versions of it. He's told his mother various versions. And she said to me, and I finished the book saying it, that she has no idea what really happened. She doesn't think that anybody ever will because Chris told her that he would take

this secret to his grave. Well, what are some of the versions Chris Watts told his mother? Well, that Shanann did it, in fact. He saw it on the baby monitor that Shanann was strangling Celeste, and then he came up and she was strangling Bella. So he just lost it and killed Shanann. And we all knew, and nobody ever thought that really happened, in fact. But obviously, as parents, they wanted to believe that it did. Because I think they loved their granddaughters a lot. Although they're not really given credit for that, they were very, very close to the granddaughters.

And they lost a lot, too. I mean, everybody in this story is so tragic. They lost everything, really, because of this guy, Chris Watts, you know. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about an unlikely duo, as Sean Walsh referred to it, as the odd couple. I hardly think Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon would appreciate that.

Sean Walsh, they're probably spinning in their graves right now, thanks to you. Guys, I want you to take a listen as the mother of Chris Watts still doesn't believe on some days her son could do such a thing. Listen to cut 11. It is Chris Watts' confession. He's telling investigators after his wife's dead, excuse me, cut 12, he's telling investigators that his daughter Cece was first. Was she alive, alive when he shoved her in the oil tank? He says, no. I put the blanket over her head and that's how she passed. Really? He put a blanket on her head and she just died? That's not how suffocation works. But listen to killer dad Chris Watts in his own words.

Okay, you can cut there because I'm really having a hard time hearing it. You have to really listen. Bethany, how could he revise the past, revise history in that manner, where he just put a blanket over her head and then she's dead? Well, Nancy, you know, when you talk to a sociopath, they always do this strange double talk. They talk about what they've done and then they undo it at the same time. Oh, I put a blanket over her head, she died. So On the other, it's like they didn't do it at all. I mean, we talked about a story with a sociopath many years ago who murdered a little girl outside a car wash. And I think he said something like, yeah, she came on to me. And then I murdered her. So, you know, and that little girl was 12, if I recall correctly.

So you have on the one hand, the confession, on the other hand, the undoing. And I'm sure your listeners, every listener to this show has somebody in their life who does this weird kind of double talk. We call it in my field, doing and undoing. They do and they undo. They do and they undo. They talk about it because it's the glory days. I mean, these are Chris Watts glory days.

And this is why he has formed a friendship with Jake Patterson behind bars, even though boo-hoo they've been separated, is that they can fluff each other up. They can talk about each other's crimes there is what we call a co-narcissism where they both think that the other person is at the center of the universe and they're kind of I would think that if you were to listen in to their conversations there would be a self congratulatory quality maybe they're reading the Bible maybe they're singing praises to God Maybe they're reading the Bible. Maybe they're singing praises to God. Maybe they're thinking they're going to become ministers and evangelize the world. These are common things that sociopaths do behind bars. And so, you know, we're talking about the odd couple. I wouldn't think of

it that way. I would think of it as, you you know the perfect husband and the perfect pair they love each other they they both did the same thing and they're both rationalizing it together and and one more quick thing nancy don't underestimate the power of a perversion to draw people together they have a perverse way of looking at the world. Everything's upside down and they share that in common. So all of their conversations are going to be organized around this perverse view of the world in some way. You know, Sean Walsh. Actually, could I just say one thing? Yes, please do. Jump in with me. John Glatt. Go ahead. Well, in fact, when he smothered Bella, she was the only one that fought back,

and she fought back pretty violently. And when they examined her body, she bit her tongue multiple times before he actually killed her. So she really fought to live, you know, against her father. So it wasn't just a question of putting the blanket over her head. She really fought back. And that was one of the things that I thought was so affecting. You know, I don't think Celeste fought back. And for some reason, Shanann didn't seem to fight back because there were no bruises or marks on her body. But little Bella did. Guys, we were talking about the very unlikely friendship conjured up between Jamie Closs's kidnapper. Remember the

13-year-old little girl who was followed off of her school bus? Both of her parents were murdered. That night, Jamie Closs is asleep in her bed, and they all hear something. The dad goes to the door. He's shot dead immediately. The mom runs in and gets Jamie and they barricade themselves in the bathroom. But her killer, Patterson, shows no mercy. He shoots open the bathroom door. He gets in there. He shoots down Jamie Closs' mom and then kidnaps Jamie Closs. He had a sexual obsession with this little girl. You know, Sean Walsh, Daily Mail, who first alerted me to this unlikely friendship of these two behind bars. You know, I'm just thinking, you know, you have your two beautiful little boys. Their whole world is you and your gorgeous wife.

That's their world. And the video game Fortnite. And Fortnite. I mean, can you imagine a child? And, you know, Jamie was about the age of my twins when this happens. I mean, I hear all day and all night, Mom, Mom, Mom. I mean, and nothing makes me happier than to help them or hear them call out for me. This girl was kidnapped by a sexual pervert, held hostage in a remote cabin, and witnessed her parents' dead bodies. That's who we're talking about. Patterson. Nancy, it's unbelievable. I mean, when you're

given, it's an honor to be a parent. And all you can think about is how you can protect your children and make sure that they live the best life that they can possibly live. And that's what you work for. That's what you put time in with them for. And to think that anybody is capable of this. It truly bends the mind. It's out of the ordinary and it's not something that you can ever imagine. But sadly, there are people like these two who commit crimes like this.

And how unfortunate for all of us that they found each other while behind bars. Take a listen to our friends at Inside Edition. Cold, dirty, but determined to survive. 13-year-old Jamie Closs is being hailed today for her incredible bravery in escaping her abductor. This is the country road where Jamie ran up to a woman who was walking her dog and told her, I am Jamie Kloss and I need help. She was asking me for help, saying she was lost, she didn't know where she was. Jeannie Nutter was walking her dog, Henry. She says she immediately recognized the teenager who has been the subject of a nationwide search. I knew she needed help and I knew I needed to get her to a safe place and that's just what I did.

She took Jamie to the home of neighbors neighbors Kristen and Peter Kaczynski. The door opens and Jeannie says, this is Jamie Klassen, call 911. They say Jamie looked skinny, her hair was matted and she was wearing shoes too large for her. She looked weak, tired, you know, looked like she lost probably 15 to 20 pounds from like the original photos that we had seen she doesn't look like she was able to like take a bath or wash her hair clothes or anything like that crime stories with nancy grace guys with me, the author of The Perfect Father, the true story of Chris Watts, his all-American family, and a shocking murderer, comes out on Tuesday. It's John Glatt.

You know, John, I can't wait to get your book. I assume you're going to have it on Amazon. Is that correct? Yes, yes, it's on Amazon and everywhere you can buy books at the moment. Oh, it's already out. Okay, great. I thought it was coming out on Tuesday. Yeah, it is, but you can pre-order it already. Okay, you know what? I'm doing it right now. I'm pre-ordering it right now.

The Perfect Father. Because even though at trial the state doesn't have to prove motive, I'm still overwhelmed with curiosity about what motivates killers like Chris Watts and Patterson. Now, in your book, you state that Chris Watts, the killer dad, still writes letters to his murdered daughters, Bella and Celeste, sends them to his parents for them to read over their graves. Is that right? That's right. Yeah, he does it every day.

They talk to him every night, you know, by phone. And he dictates these letters to his children. And then the parents dutifully go over to the grave site and they read it. They're very solemn. I mean, what's particularly sad that you would pick today, July 17th, is actually Celeste's fifth birthday today. And in fact, I finished my book with exactly a year ago on her fourth birthday, Chris wrote her a letter, you know, saying, calling himself her safe haven and, you know, recreating a night they would have when he would tuck her into bed and read her

her favorite children's story and things and it's almost like he's talking to her he calls her daddy's girl uh because she stuck to him like glue and he goes that every picture he has in his uh in his cell I guess you're in my arms or on my lap or holding my hand. I mean, it's just unbelievable, you know, his reality at the moment. And he also, you know, as was said before, he's totally got into the Bible. That's all he does now is he reads the Bible and he preaches to the other inmates. And he sends his parents kind of Bible passages every day too, you know, things he wants them to see. And, you know, of course, he's found God,

like many other people do, behind bars. But maybe this is his coping mechanism with, you know, what the terrible things he has to live with. You know, just thinking about this with me now, Cheryl McCollum, director of Cold Case Research Institute. Cheryl, you and I have dealt with so many violent felons who, when they start telling their story, they gloss over it. Like Chris Watts says, I put the blanket on her head and she passed. In other words, I strangled her dead. That's what he's trying to say. a four-year-old little girl bella and celeste in addition to shenan watts but also cheryl as you recall

he had a double life now he is sending letters to his dead daughters for his parents to read over their graves. But in life, he couldn't wait to track down the next woman to meet up with in a motel. Coworkers, people on, I think it was Tinder, anybody to have sex with. In fact, he had a longer time mistress, and he had told her he was leaving his wife he had to get rid of his wife so he could be with her even having her over for lunch in the family home having sex in the home he didn't give a flying fig about those daughters i mean cheryl everybody at some point has an argument with your husband you think think, wow, my life was so great before I met him, which of course is probably not true. I mean, speaking, I'm projecting, I do that. Okay. My life is, and Sean Walsh, you guys have all been with me during the whole courtship and the marriage decision and the twins. And it's been the best thing that ever happened to me. But in the

heat of a moment, you may think of leaving, but leaving your spouse also means leaving your children and the world as they know it. So when you cheat on your spouse, you're cheating on your children too. And he's writing all these letters now, Cheryl McCollum, but in life, he didn't give a flying fig about them. He don't care about them this minute. He is a con artist. And he's a very dangerous combination of con artist and pervert. So what he's doing is manipulating his mama right this minute with those letters. It's not about them.

It's just it's not about the Bible. He ain't preaching to nobody. I'm going to tell you what he's doing. When you're in prison, you get extra time out of your cell and extra benefits to practice your religion. That's all he's doing. It's a con. You know what, Cheryl? I can't believe I forgot about that.

You do. When you go to any kind of AA or any religious activity, you get out of your jail cell. And you know what's interesting too? Hey! John Glatt, author of The Perfect Father, you didn't fall for Chris Watts' BS, did you? You didn't actually believe everything he's feeding his poor mom. Please tell me. Absolutely not. I mean, no, but I empathize with his mother, you know, so I just tried to see her from her point of view. But no, I mean, I think he what he did is reprehensible and disgusting. And there's nothing good I could say about that. The only thing I

would say, and I brought it out in the book and I told his mother I would, was that he never had any kind of psychiatric evaluation after his arrest of any manner. And I would have thought from the books I've done, you know, the case just speaks out for a psychologist to examine him and to see why he might have done it, what he might be suffering from, so this doesn't repeat itself with someone else.

Well, I am John Glatt. But he's never seen a psychiatrist. John, John, you know, I really respect you for all your research and your awesome book. I can't wait to get my mitts on it. But I think I know what he was suffering from, and it's, I really can't say it on air, but it's below the belt because this guy knew enough i mean for pete's sake join in sean walsh when did you suddenly go mute never in life i mean this guy led a double life he cheated like nobody's business

he planned the murders and then he planned the cover-up. Then he continued to lie. Remember his public plea to bring Shanann home? What a crock of you-know-what. I mean, he was in his right mind. And John Glatt is right. He may be a sociopath, but that is by far from insanity. Oh, I agree, Nancy. But if you look at it, I always look at Chris Watts and I think if the seven deadly sins took on human form, they would be Chris Watts. That's right.

And Dr. Bethany Marshall, don't you know these two are behind bars talking about, oh, they made me confess. Oh, I get hate mail. Oh, boo-hoo-hoo. It's a boo-hoo pity party. I don't care.

And Nancy, I wonder how many girlfriends they have at this point. Oh, you just had to. Why is everything about S-E-X with you? You know what you need? You need 12-year-old twins. That'll get your mind off S-E-X just like that, okay? I mean, yeah, you know what? Go ahead.

If they had a psyche valve, I can say if they had a psyche valve, it wouldn't be that complicated. I mean, it's sociopathy. I mean, I would think that for Jake Patterson, it's a little different in that he had a fixed perversion towards Jamie Closs. He was obsessed with her. He wanted to get the parents out of the way. But how is that much different from Chris Watts being obsessed with a mistress and wanting to get his wife and children out of the way? I mean, when you think about it, the offending pattern, the M.O., has an eerily similar pattern in that both of them had some benefit that they hoped to gain, which was both sexual, romantic, and some twisted, perverted way. They both wanted an idealized life. They just wanted what they wanted. They were obsessed with their own goals, and they would just wipe out human life in order to move on to the next step.

And that is what an evaluator would find. And they would find all kinds of other rewards, bragging to Chris Watts, bragging to his mother, being a con artist. I love that Cheryl said that. I think that's so apt. Manipulating other people, even from behind bars, glorifying their lives, all kinds of things that they have in common. I can see why they developed this bromance together. You know, I want to go out with Joseph Scott Morgan, because in case we get too far into Chris Watts' redemption, could you please just very quickly describe Coffin Birth with Shanann Watts? Yeah, Shanann, after her body had begun to decompose, after he buried it in this shallow grave out there in the scorching heat, her body is breaking

down. That precious life that she carried, Nico, the systems or the tissue itself begins to break down and loosen up and not to be too overly graphic. But at this point in time, the muscles that normally contain or retain a baby in place loosen through decomposition. And she literally delivers into this filthy hole, which he dug and left her body. And Nancy, one final thing that I have to say, because I covered this hearing, his final hearing, live on the air. And the thing that I was so very disappointed in from a prosecutorial standpoint about Chris Watts was the following. It's the fact that even with Dennis Rader, BTK, he was compelled to allocute in open court.

Instead, Chris Watts, the coward that he is, sat there whimpering like a little animal that's been wounded before everybody and his mom's crying and everybody else is carrying on in the court. But he was never compelled to say what he did or what he had done. Forgive me. Instead, he's kind of shuffled out of there and sent off to live this life.

He has a life to live up in that jail. These children don't. His wife doesn't. But, you know, he's left up there to make friends. But he's never confessed one time in public where everybody can actually hear him to say specifically what he did that night. Instead, he kind of leaves it wide open, as Dr. Bethany had talked about. He'll change his story at a moment's notice. And it sickens me to my

back teeth. Truer words never spoken. These two may be one last. Yes, please. One thing he's never expressed any remorse for what he's done. His mother told me. And I think that's one of the things that hurts her. He has never said he was sorry for what he did. You know, John Glatt, I'm so glad you told me that because I hate to judge so harshly, but the reality is it's the truth. I may not like it, but it's the truth. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off.

Goodbye, friend.