Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - "Killer Dad" Chris Watts murders pregnant wife and 2 little daughters, wants "DO-OVER!"

Episode Date: May 6, 2019

Killer dad, Chris Watts, reportedly wants a do-over, and is “exploring his options” for an appeal. This, after a family friend says he is feeling regret about murdering his pregnant wife and two young daughters.Nancy's expert panel weighs in:Dr. William Morrone: Renowned Medical ExaminerVincent Hill: Private InvestigatorBethany Marshall: PsychoanalystKathleen Murphy:  Family attorney Robyn Walenski: Crime online investigative Reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. you with investigators. So that makes sense. That's why I know you asked you've asked me these questions if it doesn't make sense to me. His wife Shanann, 15 weeks pregnant, seen here coming home from a business trip in August. Watts says they argued. She accused him of cheating and told him this. Never gonna see the kids again. Never gonna see them again. Get off me.

Don't hurt me. Watts says that triggered him into a rage. He says Shanann did not fight back as he strangled her to death. I just felt like there was already something in my mind that I wasn't planning on, that I was into a rage. He says Shanann did not fight back as he strangled her to death. I just felt like there was already something in my mind that I wasn't planning that I was going to do it. And I woke up that morning, it was going to happen, and I had no control. The couple's daughters, Watts says, woke to see their mother face down in bed, wrapped in a sheet. I said, what happened, Bill? And she said,

Mom? Mom. Watts says he drove his wife's body from their Frederick, Colorado home to a remote oil field, his girls sitting in the back seat. There, Watts says, he strangled three-year-old Celeste and four-year-old Bella. Now behind bars,

Chris Watts, the so-called killer dad, says he's had time to reflect, to think about his past and wish he had, quote, handle things differently. Well, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. With me, an all-star panel, Vincent Hill, private investigator, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst at drbethanymarshall.com. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer. Dr. William Maroney, renowned medical examiner and author of American Narcan, found on Amazon.

Joining me right now, Robin Walensky, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter and author of Beautiful Life, the CSI behind the Casey Anthony trial, Robin Walensky. He's had time to think, you know what? He could have done that at home or on his way to work in the morning, sitting in the car in complete solitude. Why did he have to kill his wife and children to have time to think and reflect on what else himself. Yeah, it makes me ill when I think about this, because now not only would he have four-year-old Bella to think about, three-year-old Celeste, his second daughter to think about, his wife Shanann, 34 years old, to think about,

but he would have a brand new baby, a little boy to be thinking about, Nancy, because his wife at the time was 15 weeks pregnant at the time that he killed her. That's right. And they had already picked out the name, Nico, you know, speaking of his children, Bella and Celeste. Take a listen to four-year-old Bella. My daddy is a hero. He helps me grow up strong. He helps me, um, snuggle too. He reads me books. He ties my shoes. If you're a hero, blue and blue.

My daddy, daddy, it love you. There you hear little Bella, four years old, in the back seat, singing a love song to her father. I know that hits home, especially to you, Dr. William Maroney, medical examiner and author, but father as well. You know, I love it when you send me pictures in text of your children and I get to watch them grow along with my own children. So let's get right down to it, Dr. Maroney. I don't know what his game is, putting it out there that he's had time to think and reflect. What does he want? A a sentence reduction but let's talk about reality not just what he's thinking about behind bars but the actual deaths of bella age four and celeste age three the actual death being suffocated strangled and placed in petroleum oil. Not any respect. There's no chronological time for him

to evaluate, slow down and reflect in these actions. These actions are premeditated. The children must have been so frightened to not really know where's mom, what kind of support do I get, than to be betrayed by their father, physically assaulted, and then stuffed into a dark tank. This is evil at its finest, or this is evil at its worst. You know, Dr. William Maroney you you've seen it all you know there's no telling how many thousands of autopsies you have performed but even when the autopsy was written up and we got the autopsy report it, for instance, when they pulled Bella and Celeste out of the oil tanks, they were, quote, degloved, end quote. Again, that's quite the euphemism. Please explain what happened when Bella and Celeste were pulled out of the oil tankers.

Their father crushed them into the oil drums. De-gloving is a technical term for something that happens to the body and the skin on the outside. When somebody's decomposing, the outside layer of skin, to speak plainly, the outside layer of skin to speak plainly the outside layer of skin begins to slough off like that plastic bag from the deli and when the outside layer of skin sloughs off it's referred to as de-gloving because it's the same as taking a glove off you know in my mind you're doing the same thing, Maroney, and I very rarely disagree with you. You're really trying to paint it with a different stroke,

make it sound better than it is. Yeah. When they tried to get baby Bella and Celeste out of the oil drums where Daddy had crushed their bodies into, their skin tore off their arms when they pulled them up. They pulled up nothing but the skin off their arms. That's what degloving is. Why did that happen, Dr. Maroney? It happens because inside the body, it's a complex mixture of proteins, tendons, ligaments, and water content. And that all breaks down in the oil because of the oil and internally because of natural organic bacteria. And there's not a lot

left in small children. They don't have the same bone frame. They're not as strong. They don't have the same muscle mass. It's a very terrible thing to look at because the children came out in pieces. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We were on the way back from the airport, and she's pregnant. And I haven't been able to get a hold of her this morning. And I've gone to her house, and her car is there and stuff like that. But she won't answer the door. She won't answer phone calls.

She won't answer text messages. And I'm just really, really concerned. And she had a doctor's appointment this morning, and she didn't go to it. And I'm just, I hadn't heard from Shanann. They had gone out of town the night before and flew back home. They'd gone out of town for a work commitment, fly back home, and by the time Shanann had gotten out of the airport and gotten home, it was almost two o'clock in the morning. And then Shanann didn't show up at a doctor's appointment. Take a listen to this. behavior for her to not show up to her doctor's appointment? No. I knew pregnancy. She was so

excited. That's right. She was so excited. Why would she not show up to a doctor's appointment? Joining me, Vincent Hill, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Kathleen Murphy, Dr. William Maroney, and Robin Walensky to Dr. Bethany Marshall, a renowned psychoanalyst. You can find her at drbethanymarshall.com. Dr. Bethany, I want to talk about the most recent news, where from behind bars, Chris Watts, the so-called killer dad, has made sure we find out that he, quote, wished he had handled things differently. Well, that's certainly an understatement, Dr. Bethany. Well, Nancy,

when he says he wishes he had handled things differently, he's acting so cavalier as if this was not a serious crime, as if he didn't kill his wife and daughters. And Nancy, we know that this is how sociopaths talk. They bring very shallow meanings to very deep words. Remember the BTK killer? I can never forget this one when he said in court representing himself, you know, I'm not a bad guy. I comforted her before I strangled her. I gave her a glass of water. And he fancied himself this great guy because he offered his victim a glass of water and he fancied himself this great guy because he offered his victim a glass of water as she was crying before he strangled her. So to me, Chris Watts is no different. When he says, I wish I had handled it differently. It's almost like saying, hey,

I brought this gift to a kid's birthday party and I wish I had just used different wrapping paper. That's about as much meaning as he brings to a statement like that. Wow. Wow. That's a good analogy to Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family law specialist. Kathleen, this all started with a domestic problem. The problem was Chris Watts. The problem was Chris. He's the problem. You know, Nancy, I thought about this before I came on air today, and one of my questions is, why does Chris Watts want to go through this paperwork

for an appellate process? And I was looking through some information, and he said that he's doing this because he didn't have his day in court. It's all about him. It's all about him. Whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What now? Say that again, please.

When looking up why Chris wants an appeal after pleading guilty in Colorado, he states that he is appealing because he didn't have his day in court. Okay. You know what? Vincent Hill, private investigator, cop turned PI. Vincent Hill, author of Playbook to a Murder, help me out, didn't have his day in court. Could you just give our listeners a brief outline of the thousands and thousands of hours police detectives put into making this case? Well, Nancy, the reason he didn't have his day in court is because he pled guilty. So he actually foregoed his day in court. So here's a guy who sat with investigators. He talked about how he killed Shanann first while the girls were there asking,

what are you doing to mommy? Then he killed Cece and then Bella. And now he says, oh, I need my day in court. Well, you gave that up when you pled guilty. So what are you talking about? You know, I'm just thinking about what his game may be. Kathleen Murphy with me, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Vincent Hill, Dr. William Maroney and Robin Walensky. Kathleen Murphy, give our listeners a tiny glimpse of the thousands and thousands of man hours that went into this investigation.

And he's saying he didn't get his day in court just like Vincent Hill said he pled guilty that was his day in court but explain what painstaking effort the cops went through Nancy just preparing for a simple domestic action I can easily spend hours upon days upon days reviewing evidence of photographs, text messages, emails, police officer dispatch communication, coming onto the property and looking at the crime scene investigative work. I can only imagine it was thousands of hours in this case. And they worked a great job. They did a great job in this case.

Let's go to Dr. William Maroney. Maybe you can help me out, Maroney. You on your end as a medical examiner, me on my end as a prosecutor working with cops and detectives. A case like this takes, let's just say, I would work a case and I was the prosecutor and I was building on the backs of the cops what they had done in cases. And I would spend literally 18 hours a day working a case before trial to have it ready to present in a seamless fashion. I'm talking about thousands of man hours. How do you think they found the bodies, Maroney? they investigated. They found the bodies of Bella and Celeste hidden down in giant oil drums at the oil fields of Anadarko, where Chris Watts worked. They had to come out with cadaver

dogs, scent dogs, take them out there in the middle of the hot sun and try to find Shanann Watts down buried in a shallow grave. They had to interview neighbors. They had to get surveillance video from up and down the street. They had to, that really is one of the things that cracked the case is the neighbor's surveillance video in his home where he shows Chris Watts what happened the night Shanann goes missing. You can see Watts and it dawns on his face. Oh crap. I'm busted. He's looking. He puts his hands up on his head and goes, oh no, oh no. Oh, because you can see Shanann goes in and never leaves. She didn't go on a play date. No. Getting that surveillance video, video tracking down witnesses calling in the dogs interview interview interview finding the old girlfriends the new girlfriends i mean it's

literally thousands of hours and just give me a glimpse at what an autopsy entails dr maroney entails, Dr. Maroney? Well, every one of those autopsies had to be ironclad. It had to be extensively sampled. It's not just the autopsy of the body. It's the collection of tissues. It's the microscope. It's the processing of samples. It's 10 to 12 hour lab days because you got to let some people go home and sleep sometimes for weeks and months and it's multiple crime scenes it's the home it's the vehicle it's the oil field and that entire tank had to be drained when it was all done and all that oil had to be examined because you don't just pull up cadavers out of oil and let that tank sit there. That tank had to have been dissembled and investigated. The time alone on an average toxicology runs at least 90 days. Sometimes the state, in order to guarantee a case being ironclad, wants six months of study.

Because all those samples have to be corrected and read by another pathologist. Thousands, thousands of hours. And now after all this, what brings us here today? Justice. Chris Watts, the killer dad, says he didn't get justice and he wants a do-over. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I was in a really, really, really bad place. And I got a friend request from Chris on Facebook. And I was like, oh, what the heck? I'm never going to meet him.

Except one thing led to another. And eight years later, we have two kids. We live in Colorado and he's the best thing that has ever happened to me. And because of my health challenges, because I got so sick, I let him in and he only knew me at that time. He knew me at my worst and he accepted me. And you know, through, um, your vows, like through sickness and everything, he's been there. He was the one that let me lay on him and fall asleep for three and a half hours on his lap while he had to pee. Um, he is the best thing that has ever, ever happened to me. So with that being said, know that no matter what, I can go on forever with this story.

No, she can't go on forever because she's dead. She was murdered well into her pregnancy. She was straddled by her husband, Chris Watts, and strangled. Then his children, little Bella and Celeste, come in and see Mommy there. And he puts them in the car along with her body. I mean, you can see him loading it up on a neighbor surveillance video. And first of all, Celeste is murdered. And then as Bella says, is the same thing that happened to Cece going to happen to me?

Daddy, no. She knew. The little four-year-old girl knew she was going to die. I mean. And now he wants a do-over, Robin Walensky. Robin Walensky joining me. CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter where you can find this and all other breaking crime and justice news robin walensky an appeal he pled guilty and i can tell you this every time i took a guilty plea

robin walensky sometimes i'd line up 25 people at once and put them all under oath everyone do you swear what you're about to tell this court will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God and yes I put God in it I did it all and they'd all have to swear under oath that what they were saying is true then I would take each one by their name confirm who they are are you in fact Robin Walensky are you the same Robin Walensky charged with the murder of Shanann Watts Bella and Celeste Watts yes I am that very Robin Walensky. And then I would lay out very briefly the facts in the indictment and ask them then, do they agree with the facts, and do they plead guilty, and give them all their rights.

And then they'd plead guilty under oath. So how, Robin Walensky, explain to me, is that what he's doing? Chris Watts wants a do-over, an appeal of his own guilty plea? That's right, because see, he's 33 years old, and he's sitting there literally looking at the walls, Nancy, and facing 50 years, so he won't get out if he lives until his 80s, if you do the math. And here's the thing, right? So you lay it out, it was three murder charges. And then they tacked down another two because under Colorado state law, the kids were under the age of 12. So he actually faced five murder charges, said he was guilty. what I call a boo-hoo-hoo crying factor involved because he wants you to believe that he's looking at the pictures of his wife and two daughters in his jail cell as he stares at the walls

and his toilet and his little cot and that he wants you to think that, oh, I'm thinking of them, you know, they're in heaven and I'm in hell and boo-hoo-hoo and I'm reading books in the Bible and looking at pictures of my family, oh, by the way, that I killed. Beautifully put, Robin Walensky. You know, you may have missed your calling because I could just see you letting loose on a jury in a closing statement. Not that you're not an awesome investigative reporter. Kathleen Murphy, I think I need a lawyer. That's a funny thing, Kathleen Murphy. I very rarely have said, I think I need a lawyer.

I've got grand jury duty tomorrow. I've been called to serve on the grand jury. And I called a longtime friend of mine within the office and said, hey, I got a problem. He said, what? I said, I caught a little DUI this weekend there was this big long

silence on the end and he went well I went just kidding just kidding I got grand jury tomorrow I want to find out if you're going to be in the office were you drinking before man that was awesome no no no no let no, no. Let's don't mix. Let's just don't mix business and pleasure. But, okay, Kathleen, help me out. I have to say something that Robin said. How can you appeal a guilty plea? Why is he allowed to have pictures? Why is he allowed to have pictures in his cell?

That's what's making me mad right now. Guilty plea is not going to happen. Withdrawing that, appealing that. He can cut pictures out of the People magazine that I'm sure they're all reading. But let me ask you this. I want to know, explain in a nutshell, which is very hard for us lawyers to do and medical examiners, no offense, Maroney. Explain in a nutshell, how can you appeal a guilty plea that you took?

You're the one that stood up in court and said, I'm guilty. I murdered Shanann, Bella, I'm guilty. I murdered Shanann, Bella, and Celeste. Fundamentally, it is near to impossible. And I haven't seen the guilty plea, but if he waived his right to appeal in that guilty plea, it's almost 99.9% not going to happen. The only thing that he really has to appeal is that there was some error in his sentencing. They can remand it back for different sentencing. And I just don't believe that there was any error in the sentence. Well, because Chris Watts has nothing but time on his hands and he's sitting there and it's just dawning on him.

Whoops. No more sex affairs, no more Tinder or Grindr or whatever he was doing online. I've got 50 years in a Wisconsin prison cell. And what can I do? What can I do to get out of here? Right now, he may not have found a lawyer to represent him, but he is absolutely appealing his guilty plea. Now, he was moved from a Colorado prison to a Wisconsin prison

after getting death threats from his fellow inmates who did not take very kindly to him murdering this beautiful pregnant wife and two little girls. But he says, quote, everything happened so fast there at the end of? The legal proceedings or his wife's murder? And he's not sure he was in the right mind to plead guilty like he did. For him, it's not just about getting out of jail. Right. It's also he hasn't been able to really have his day in court. Dr. Maroney, I mean, have his day in court. Don't you know that medical examiner that performed those three autopsies is just groaning right now? Well, they don't want to go back and have to re-explain everything, but they'll do what they need to do because that's why they're public servants.

It'll take time. It's an investment, but we have to do the right thing. Sometimes it means repeating things that took a long time. I'd feel the same way. I want to do the right thing. Sometimes it means repeating things that took a long time. I'd feel the same way. I want to do the right thing in the end. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. know that no matter how hard life gets, no matter how low you feel, know that deep down, like in your heart, that there's a purpose. There's a reason for everything. We may not understand it at the time. It's hard to understand it at the time. I'm telling you, when I met Chris, I pushed him away. I gave every excuse for him to run. I mean, every, I gave him an out every single

day. I gave him an out. And if you guys know my story with Chris, you know, I gave him an out. I mean, he went to my colonoscopy. I tortured him. I rejected him. I pushed him away time and time and time again. But when I canceled dates last minute, because that's how life is with my health challenges. You cancel things last minute, and it's hard for people to get. It's hard for me to understand. But he stuck around, And he stuck around because he was the one for me. That just breaks my heart. That is beautiful Shanann Watts in a May Facebook

video talking about how she met the man of her dreams slash her murderer, Chris Watts, when she was at a low place, was sick sick and that he stuck by her and accepted her. You know, oh gosh, just thinking about her mistaken belief that this guy really loved her. I mean, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Chris Watts was out sleeping with everybody, every skirt that walked by. And, you know, that aside, he murdered her. How could she have not seen it? That's what people keep asking me.

Explain how it happens, Dr. Bethany. Well, how it happens, Nancy, and you and I have talked about this so many times. Researchers talk about sociopaths putting on what they call the mask of sanity. And they use that term because sociopaths like Chris Watts, they know they are not like the others. He knew that he wasn't courting her because she has Crohn's disease or some illness, but he can see past it because he loves her. And he sees that she has intrinsic value. So he's going to take her to all these doctor's appointments and support her in her health challenges.

He knows he's not wired that way. He's not put together that way. He's just out having sex with other women whenever she's not available, or maybe because she's not available, or maybe because she's not continually available, he loves her even more because that means he can have sexual relationships with multiple women at once. But back to the mask of sanity, these men learn to act as if they are normal. They move around in society as if they have normal feelings and emotions emotions such as empathy, being excited by the normal things in life, attachment, wanting to take care of other people. They know that they have to

act that way in order to be acceptable, but that is certainly not who they are deep down inside. They are very sick, disturbed people. Vincent Hill with me, cop turned PI and author of Playbook to a Murderer. Vincent, weigh in. What it does to cops when they work so hard, you get a conviction or guilty plea and then it's reversed or the defendant actually gets a do-over because he's feeling sorry for himself behind bars. Yeah, Nancy, I tell you, it really, really ticks you off. You wasted all your time, put in all your energy, created this huge case, spent countless hours just for this guy to say, oh, well, I need my day in court. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, help me out. I mean, it's got to be a huge blow to the prosecution and Shanann's family to think he's going to get a do-over in court. Well, he already took away their beloved, right? He has had extraordinary power

and has done so much damage in their lives. And to think that now he's going to traipse or dance into court, get all of this attention, be at the center of things again, has to be incredibly aggravating, Nancy. I mean, how criminals are handled in the court system, it really affects victims in terms of whether or not they become re-traumatized or they have a healing curative experience so they can pick up with the rest of their lives. And when the perpetrator uses their day in court to laugh at the family, to mock the family, to lie once again about the nature of the crime, to diminish and devalue the importance of the lives they took, that recreates the crime all over again. And for the first responders and

for the medical examiners and everybody else, it re-traumatizes everybody. You know, I'm just thinking about him sitting there feeling sorry for himself. Robin Walensky, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. What can you tell me about Chris Watts' life behind bars. Well, he's got a lot of time on his hands. He's facing 50 years. I know that things were very unpleasant for him in the Colorado prison system, that people were threatening his life because not only did he kill his pregnant wife,

but he's a baby killer, and he killed his four-year-old daughter and his three-year-old daughter. And so because of these threats and his safety, the Bureau of Prisons had to move him all the way to Wisconsin. Now, if the prisoners know who he is or doesn't know who he is, he's probably in an isolated area, doesn't have a lot of contact with people, and literally is staring at the walls,

thinking about how he he can get out of this situation uh before he turns 83 years old you know what jackie howard sitting right here in the studio with me look up jackie if you dare just said he only gets one hour of free time a day what one hour what do you mean one hour of free time? He's not holding down a job. He's doing nothing. What did you mean by that? He only gets out of his cell one hour a day. I don't want him out of his cell one hour a day. I want him to stay right there and think about Shanann, Bella, and Celeste. Dr. William Maroney, fine. Let him out. Let him go play basketball in the outdoors. Let him go for walks.

Let him be on his computer and have all his new girlfriends online and meet with lawyers and lounge in the library. You know what? I'm not impressed. He only gets one hour a day playing basketball. Ordinarily, I am always up for criminal justice reform but as soon as you use the word baby killer as soon as the forensic evidence and the autopsy includes the most innocent people around i consider barbaric conditions i'm so old-fashioned it's not a hundred years let's go back a thousand years this guy needs stone walls he needs to sleep on wood i'm i just feel so enraged that what we have is a man who killed children let alone a beautiful innocent wife, that psychopathology, that psychopath,

he's also got these narcissistic tendencies that he wants to go back into the spotlight. He wants to be examined. He's looking for something to make his life worthwhile and to become more evil as a killer is better than boredom for him. You know what, as an appellate court reviews whether killer dad Chris Watts gets a new trial, take a listen to this. He helps me grow up strong. He helps me snuggle too. He reads me books. He ties my shoes. If you're a hero, blue and blue,

my daddy, daddy, I love you. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.