Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - KILLER LAWYER ALEX MURDAUGH: CASE REVERSED

Episode Date: May 7, 2026

Alex Murdaugh could be getting a new trial. FITSNews is reporting a "reliable source" as saying the five member South Carolina Supreme Court panel has voted unanimously in favor of granting Murdaugh a new trial.  The appeal filed by Murdaugh's attorneys heavily features allegations of improper influence by former Colleton County clerk of court Rebecca "Becky" Hill during the 2023 murder trial. The Supreme Court could uphold the convictions, send the case back to a lower court, or reverse the convictions and order a new trial. Even if a new murder trial is granted, Murdaugh is currently serving 40 years for federal financial crimes.  A decision could take several more months. Joining Nancy Grace today: Eric Bland  - Founder, Partner- Bland Richer, LLP Attorneys at Law, Twitter: @TheEricBland, blandrichter.com Dr. Rachel Toles - Clinical and Forensic Psychologist, Author of book coming out in 2027 “Inventing the Psychopath: How a Convenient Myth Makes the World More Dangerous,” website: DrRachelToles.com, Instagram / YouTube: TolzHaus, Facebook: DrRachelToles,  Chris McDonough  - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, Host YouTube channel, "The Interview Room”, website: www.coldcasefoundation.org/chris-mcdonough   Dr. Michelle DuPre  - Forensic Pathologist and Former Medical Examiner,  also Former Detective: Lexington County Sheriff's Department, Author: “Money, Mischief, and Murder: The Murdaugh Dynasty...the Rest of the Story,"  "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" & "Child Abuse Investigation Field Guide", Forensic Consultant DMichelleDupreMD.com Jennifer Wood - Journalist, Director of research at FITSNews.com, Twitter: @IndyJenn_  Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Bombshell tonight. Killer lawyer. Alex and Murdoch? Murder conviction? Reversed?

Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. My son was in a boat wreck. A few months back. He's been getting through. Most of us been benign stuff. We didn't take serious. I know that's what it is.

Rose. He's advising that his wife and child was shot. Mr. Murdoch, go ahead and talk to call him. It's 41, 47, Mozel Road. I've been up to it now. It's bad. That was all a lie. All that crying and snodding, and I was in the courtroom when he did it in court as well, all a lie. A jury convicted him in a double murder. The double murders of wife, Maggie, and son, Paul dead, shot dead, good gravy. Straight out to Jennifer Wood, joining us, journalist director, research, fits, news.com. Tell me, it's not true. Yes, I predicted it, but please tell me it's not true.

Sources stating there's a unanimous vote coming down for reversal. That's what we've been hearing. We've been on standby for a couple of weeks being told that it was imminent. so we're just waiting for the official word from the Supreme Court, but I think it is true. I think we might be looking at a new trial. And you believe it's going to be a unanimous reversal? I wouldn't be comfortable predicting that necessarily,

but it wouldn't surprise me. Straight out to special guests joining us in addition to Jennifer Wood from Fitz News with her ear to the ground. Eric Bland is joining us. You remember Eric Bland. from the Alex Murdog trial. He represented the family of another dead victim connected to the Murdog clan, and that would be Mrs. Gloria Satterfield.

Remember her? She had worked for the Mardog family for years, decades, raising the boys, working within the home, knowing them intimately, and suddenly she goes headfirst down some very steep steps there at Moselle. She died. And Murdoch tried to steal the insurance money. Wait, I think he did steal the insurance money. That said, Eric Bland, high-profile civil lawyer, knows all of these cases like the back of his hand. He's a founding partner at Bland Richer. Eric, what's happening? Well, you know, we're waiting with bait of breath on what the Supreme Court's going to do, but if you're a legal mind, you're probably forecasting that there's going to be a reversal

because Alex's Sixth Amendment right to a fair and impartial jury trial may have been compromised. We were all surprised by the oral arguments in February, Nancy, because we didn't think the Supreme Court we go that hard against the former Chief Justice Gene Toll. in her decision to apply the state standard instead of the federal standard, which requires not only do you show juror interference, but that it had an impact on the outcome of the verdict. We also were shocked that they went so hard at Judge Newman for letting in the financial crime. So even if you weren't a lawyer, if you heard those oral arguments, I would forecast that it's probably going to be a 4-1 vote or even, like you said, 5-0 vote, that there will be a reversal.

But it doesn't guarantee a new trial. The new attorney general has to make that decision. And that's why our financial crimes that we were behind got Alex in prison for the rest of his life in both state and federal prison. So irrespective, if it's tried again and there's a not guilty verdict or there's a hung jury, Alex will never get a breath of fresh air. Okay. Let me recap in regular people talk. Eric Bland.

But let me see Bland. Yes, no. Pretend you're under on cross-examination. You've cross-examined a lot of people. Do you believe that Becky Hill, the court clerk, in any way, changed the verdict to guilty? No. I represented six of those.

jurors, Nancy, who testified in front of Justice Toll? No, absolutely, they testified unequivocally that nothing that they heard or saw influenced their verdict other than the judge's jury instructions and the evidence. And the other five said the same thing. There was one juror who vacillated back and forth, but was not persuasive and not credible, according to Justice Toll. But the issue is, Justice Toll did say, I find Becky Hill's testimony. to be less than credible. So applying the federal standard, they would be entitled to a new trial. You did hear the part about yes or no.

Eric Bland, back to you. Let me throw this out there. Repeat and regular people talk. Okay, federal, standards, state standard, standard, standard, this is what happened. He gets a new trial. Becky Hill, the court clerk. Becky Hill, the court clerk, was, I know her from the trial, very nice, very competent, very efficient, never missed a day of work or whole life. Long story short, she would have some dealings with the jury, as court clerks do.

And according to testimony, at some point she said something like, watch him carefully on the stand. That's not enough to sway a verdict. It's not. It's simply not. But there was one juror, and there may have been two, but I know of one that said it affected her verdict. Now, we all think it did not affect the verdict. There's no way it affected the verdict. But given testimony of even one juror that Becky Hill affected her verdict, they've got to reverse.

There's really no way around it, is there? No. And that's applying a more rigorous. standard. I think all that had to be shown is a prima facie evidence of that there was some interference, not that there was an impact. And don't forget, the financial crimes they felt may have been prejudicial to the ultimate verdict because was he convicted of murder because of the financial crimes. I always thought he would get a new trial on the federal level. I did not believe it would happen on the state level, but I believe I'm going to be wrong. But Eric Blan, I got to

disagree with that because the financial information, I mean, hold on, let's refresh everybody's recollection, bombshell right now. Alex Murdoch is getting a retrial. The case is going to be reversed according to sources. To Jennifer Wood, journalist director, Research Fitz News, who's been on this case from the very, very beginning. Jennifer, the financial, the fraud, the stealing is motive because Maggie Murdoch, God rest her soul, was getting a divorce. She was divorcing this piece of crap, technical legal term, and everything was then subject to discovery. In other words, her divorce lawyers were going to get all of his financials to determine how much he owed her its alimony and a property settlement. and then all of his theft to the tune of millions and millions of dollars from banks, from friends, from clients, including a quadriplegic.

He stole millions. It was all going to be uncovered. Also, the night of the murders, isn't this true? Paul was being sued by the family of Mallory Beach, a teen girl that was thrown off his boat when he was driving crazy drunk. Everybody begging him to get from behind the wheel, they were suing. And it was going to court. It was coming to a head. So that night, because of financial reasons, Maggie and Paul were murdered. That's correct. That is the state's motive.

It was the state's motive in the trial. But during the oral arguments for the Supreme Court, the justices focus on just how much of that financial information was allowed to be presented in front of the jury. And I think their point was, you know, it really was a trial within a trial. I mean, there was a lot of testimony that the jurors did not see while Judge Newman decided what to allow him. And a good portion of what was done outside of the presence of the jury was allowed in. And the Supreme Court questioned whether or not that was too much, whether or not they went too far. Hmm.

Are they, do you believe they're going to list that as a grounds for reversal, the financial crimes or just what? I don't know if they'll list that as a ground for reversal, but it was a major point during those oral arguments. So it is possible that they issue guidance for future trials. You know, there's a lot of possibilities, but that is absolutely something that the justices were very focused on. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

You know, Eric Bland, you're a fellow lawyer, a trial lawyer, and trial lawyers are a whole different breed. You cannot go into court and try a case and win without the other side coming up with a slew of claims against you. You did this, you did that, prosecutorial misconduct, blah, blah, blah, blah. That said, if the court doesn't think... find any of those claims as grounds for reversal, it doesn't matter. Right? So you're saying that a big argument the defense made was the financial crimes should not have come into evidence. I say it should have because that was the motive for murdering Maggie and Paul. His whole financial empire was going to be exposed. How many millions of dollars did this guy steal? He stole a total of 19. Um,

We recovered 14.2 for our clients. We represented six of them. And you're right, Nancy. Pressure breaks pipes. That's why motive is not an implement of murder, but jurors want to know what was the motive. He decided that he had to kill Maggie and Paul to take the focus off him for all the financial crimes, the Satterfields, the fact that Maggie wouldn't sign the bank guarantee from Palmetta Savings Bank when he barred $750,000. Jeannie Secondger coming to him on the morning of the murder saying $175,000 from a settlement. And then Martinsley, with the June 10th hearing three days after, trying to get his financial information and holding him in contempt. Pressure breaks pipes. It may not be a motive that you and I would do. We wouldn't kill our children because of financial pressure. But to a narcissist like him, it seemed like the perfect solution. Hold on just a moment. Number one, Eric Bland, did I not say talk regular people talk? And you seem to agree. And then you throw out a Latin phrase, prime a facie. I heard that. Why don't you just say on its face, apparently? But you have to throw around a legal Latin term. You know how much jurors hate that? But you just keep on doing it. To Dr. Rachel Tolls joining us, a forensic psychologist, author of a book coming out. And I can't wait for this.

this, inventing the psychopath. Mm. Okay, Dr. Rachel Tolls, you heard Eric Bland say accurately times 10 that Alex Murdoch, narcissist, actually, before I throw you the rest of the question, you've got to see him in court. And keep in mind, this is not real, Dr. Rachel. This is all an act. Watch.

A little bit. Here, Murdoch, have one of these. But oh no, his defense lawyers didn't want that to happen for him to wipe his snotty nose and eyes. They want him to continue with the drama tragic. That's from our friends at WLTV. Okay, Bland is right, and Bland knows this case because he was handling the civil end on many fronts. Narcissist, what is that? And number two, financial pressure out the yin-yang.

He wasn't just going to be uncovered about stealing almost 20 millions of dollars. $20 million from banks, lending institutions, friends, law partners, and even clients, including the one I told you about, the quadriplegic. He stole his money, millions and millions of dollars. Not just that. He was losing his homes. He was losing his wife. And he was going to lose his law license because bars, state bars, across, and I'm talking about

legal bars. You have to be a member of the bar to practice law. They will let lawyers get away with a lot, but commingling funds with your clients are taking money. Oh, H-E-O-O-O-O-O-O-D-O-O. That's where they put their foot down, and he would have been disbarred. So Maggie and Paul had to die. What is a narcissist? And why does Eric Bland keep saying pressure bursts pipes? I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm saying he's right, But explain this. I actually completely agree with Blan on all these points. So just to kind of break down in layman's terms, what narcissistic personality disorder is, although I would actually say, in my opinion, although I can't diagnose him, he has a different diagnosis on top of that, which would be antisocial personality disorder, which we will get to in a second. But basically, when we look at people who have narcissistic personality disorder, it ultimately means they're kind of a lot of people say,

them as like a hollow self-insides. So it's all about presentation. There's superficial charm. There's keeping the status, just making sure you keep up with appearances at all cost. But ultimately, these people totally self-loat. I mean, they hate themselves deep down. And so their relationship to themselves reflects the relationship they have with other people. But so the behavioral pattern documented across this, for decades in this case,

we see repeated deception, boundary violations, exploitation of people at their most vulnerable, the people he stole from, the complete absence of genuine reckoning with the harm that he caused, that is consistent of antisocial personality structure, right? Then, of course, we bring in the presentation, the charm, the status, the way he needed to be seen, and that reflects the narcissistic traits. So these two separate things can run together. Doctor, doctor, look at the video. Look at the video. There he is.

Crying, crying, crying, crying. Keep watching. And then within minutes, tears are gone. The snot is gone. And suddenly he's scrolling through his phone sending texts. Okay, just keep it on the video. Oh, there he is. Okay, that was quick.

Yeah, because I believe that Alec Murdova has been playing a role his whole life. He's been deceiving people throughout his life. For whatever reason, maybe typically these people learn as a child. You keep up appearances for survival in different ways, getting, like, whatever he learned, he grew up that way. Because these things don't come out of a vacuum. So they are, they develop because of various things they're exposed to in their childhoods and then, of course, traumas and various things.

But we know that when you've got antisocial personality disorder combined with narcissistic personality sort of, that is incredibly dangerous. It can be incredibly dangerous. So getting back to the idea of what we see in cases like these and why I also agree that making sure that the financial information is on the table in this case, nobody kills their family just typically, they don't just snap. It's all about a chain of escalation that builds up over years and the threat of exposure. So Alec Murdoch had 14 years, at least a financial fraud, a firm audit, a wrongful death lawsuit, all converging simultaneously, like you mentioned, his wife leaving him. Everything was about to be exposed.

So we've got all of these things. And I think that he killed because he doesn't want to be exposed in this way. But he also killed because in some ways he was doing an old sleight of hand trick. Distract them over here with his sob story so they won't come after him. I mean, we see cases like this. I can give you a few examples where we see family annihilators that are about to have everything exposed. There's a case of a guy named Steven Supple, who had a federal embezzlement indictment already filed

when he killed his wife and four children. There's a guy named Christian Longo, who was drowning in fraud charges when he killed his wife and three children and fled to Mexico and created a whole new identity. A woman named Emily Long, which just happened last year, was allegedly facing embezzlement charges around $600,000 while her husband was dying of brain cancer,

and then she allegedly killed him and her two. two children and herself. And then, of course, Brian Walsh is another name who was already convicted of fraud charges awaiting sentencing when he killed his wife, Anna. So this is something we see across the board. And that's why I think it's really important that we have this financial information on the table because it's a chain of escalation. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, I want you to look following up on what Dr. Rachel has told us, what Eric Bland, who, by the way, I love giving him a hard time, but this guy wins a lot of cases and nobody knows this trial better than Bland and Jennifer Wood. And they're joining us tonight. Special guest also so familiar

with this case who comes from this jurisdiction and I thought and think so much of her, I asked her to consult on a book I wrote about the murder of Ellen Greenberg. Joining us, Dr. Michelle Dupree. She's a forensic pathologist, former medical examiner, former detective with Lexington County Sheriff's Department. She is the author of Money, Mischief, and Murdoch, and Murdoch, the Murdoch Dynasty, the rest of the story. But for my purposes, she's the author of homicide, investigation, field.

guide. And in all our spare time, she's joining us tonight. Dr. Dupree, thank you for joining us. Could you describe we are having a big fight fest about this reversal for those of you just joining us, Alex Murdoch's murder convictions are being reversed. Yes, we're starting from scratch, according to sources. Back to reality, what happened to Paul? And Maggie, describe their injuries as only you can, Dr. Dupree. Nancy, they were brutally murdered. Paul was shot twice with a shotgun. I mean, literally his brains were all over the barn there.

Maggie was shot at least five times, some in the back. I mean, who does this? This was absolutely vengeance. This was awful. This was just, it's unthinkable that someone would do this. You know, Maggie and Paul brutally gunned down there in the dog kennel. I believe, Dr. Dupree, that Paul was killed first. I believe that Maggie tried to jump in and then she, then Paul was killed and then she tried to run.

How would we determine that from the scene? We would look at the circumstances around that. We would look at where Paul was found. We would look at where Maggie was found, the direction that she was headed when she was found. And it does appear that Paul probably was shot first and that Maggie was trying to get to him when Alex allegedly killed her. Maggie facing down Murdoch, the only one with a weapon and a hail of bullets loses her own life. and then Murdoch, idiot, placing himself at the scene. Listen to this video.

Now, this video, correct me if I'm wrong, Jennifer Wood, Paul had a dog of a friend in their kennel at Moselle. They had a hunting lodge. They're super rich. I think they had three homes. They had Moselle, the Hunting Lodge. Feel free to show the photos control room for people that are not familiar with this. The hunting lodge, then they had their home where they lived, then they had a beach home.

I don't know if they had any more homes. Those are just the ones I know of. But that night, oh, wow. Okay, that's one of them. That night, Paul had a friend's dog in the kennel. And the dog was going to go to the vet. But the friend wanted a video of the dog's tail, T-A-I-L, to send to the vet. It was a lady vet, as I recall, for her to be familiar with what was going on. So he had Paul and Maggie went with him go out to the kennel and take a video of the dog, right? Is that how it went down, Jennifer Wood? Yeah, he took that video of the dog to send to his friend Rogan Gibson, and it was on Paul's phone. The lot of our Law enforcement did not get that phone open until spring of 2022, I believe, right before the trial started and discovered the video, which had Ellick's voice in the background.

So that video was taken. It was time stamped. His voice was in the background. It placed him at the scene shortly before the murders. Minutes, minutes before double murder goes down. We have the video. We're going to see it just. like the jury did. Let's roll. Get back. Get back. Quit, Cash. Come. Quit. That's okay.

Come here. Come here, Cash. Oh, Barbara. There's a chick now. Come on, Cash. Come, Cash. Quit. And right there at the end, you hear Murdoch.

They're talking about either that dog or one of the dogs tried to or got a guinea bird. And somebody else said, no. it's a chicken. You hear Murdoch at the very end. Isn't that right, Jennifer Wood? That is correct. Okay. All I can say is this Eric Bland technical legal term.

Idiot! Idiot! And he thought that cell phone would never be opened. He places himself at the murder scene minutes before the murders go down. And then after that, Eric Bland, the

digital data It's the nail in the coffin because he had one of those big, huge honk and SUVs. It had everything on it, of course. And it had the black box that reveals every movement when the car is cranked up, when the car goes into reverse, when the car is put in drive. And it shows him tearing out, peeling out, scratching off, leaving the murder scene, flying off and then he slows down and it shows his passenger front seat window

being electrically lowered when he throws Maggie's cell phone out the window and they find it there and then he peels off and hides out at his mother's place as an alibi. Idiot, that's all I can say. Yeah, to speak in layman's terms, it's one of the darkest facts

that he was at the kennel and for two years lied to his only living child Buster that he was actually sleeping on the couch when in reality he was with his, Buster's mother and brother a minute and a half before they were shot and killed. No father would keep that fact from their only living son. And the fact that he left to go to his mothers without detouring and telling Maggie and Paul, I'm leaving and going to my moms who were at the kennel, that's another devastating fact, especially when he brought her back, Nancy, to go see his father who was supposedly dying in a sabbatah hospital.

That's right. According to the evidence, he lured his wife, Maggie, to the hunting lodge that night. Chris McDonough, this case had it all. Guys, Chris McDonough is the director of the Cole Case Foundation. For my purposes, it's more important that he is a homicide detective with over 300 homicides under his belt. He's also the star of the interview room on YouTube where I first found him during the quadruple slays in Idaho. Chris, thank you for being with us tonight. What do you make of this? Reversal.

It's going to happen all over again. Yeah, it's unbelievable. And let's, I mean, let's really compress this thing to simplicity. Within 90 seconds, Nancy, that guy, from the kennel is going to blow his son's head off with a shotgun and then execute his wife who is coming to his aid. And then he's going to play this game where he's about ready to win an Oscar,

where they cue the snop and the spit coming out of his mouth. And by the way, he's gonna get a group of attorneys who say, admittedly, look, he's a thief, He's a liar. He's an insurance cheat. He's a drug addict and a bad lawyer. But by no way is he a killer. Are you kidding me? Why do you say that? Why are you saying that? Well, because the blame then gets shifted towards the investigation, the malpractice of that investigation, according to the attorneys, the prosecutorial, you know, the prosecutorial misconduct. and of course the corruption of the elected officials and the court personnel.

By no means is it Alex Murdoch? And has he ever stepped up and said, you know what, I'm going to take responsibility for my own actions? And as the good doctor just said, that is 100% a narcissistic personality type. All right, I'm going back down there. Close, ma'am. They've been around with you ever since you've got on the phone with me.

I have multiple people coming out there to you. Okay. Can you do me a favor, Mr. Murdoch, and turn on the flashers on your car so that way they can see where the kennels are? Do you have your flashes on for me, Mr. Murdoch? Yes. Okay. I don't want you to touch them at all, okay? I don't know if you've already touched them, but I don't want you to touch them just in case they can get any kind of evidence, okay?

I've already touched them trying to get a, to see if they were breathing. Well, I just don't want you to move anything just in case they can get any kind of evidence, okay? Chris McDonough, Homicide Detective, that's BS. Have you ever seen a crime victim, the relative of crime victims, leave the bodies? Like, leave your child's body and your wife's, body? No, never. They're lying on them, that you have to drag them off of the dead victim. They try to jump in the coffin. Jumpers. I mean, and yet did you hear him say, all right, I'm going back down there. Did you hear that? He left them. Yeah, and not only that, he watched his son's

cranium explode and hit the wall. He knew exactly what was going on. And I hope a jury, if they do, you know, get a reversal and the AG decides to retry him, again, I hope they really recognize the totality of how brutal this man's personality is. He is, he steps away to kill his family. That's, that's unconscionable. You know, Eric Bland, we all notice there's no blood on his shirt when he's in that cop car. so I don't know how much he touched them. He certainly did not embrace them or try to resuscitate them.

Look at that. It's inconceivable. I'm telling you that that you're right. Well put. Guys, I want you to take a look at Murdoch on his body cam. Watch this. The scene is secure at a whiskey fox, whiskey mic, both gunshot wounds to the head. I want you to let you know because of the scene.

I did go get a gun and bring it down here. It's in your vehicle. You have any guns on you at all? No, sir. It's leaning up against the side of my car. You're fine, man. You're fine. Turn around for me?

I don't have any. Okay. Yes, sir. I see that. Okay. This is your wife and son? Oh, that's fine. Okay.

This is the firearm you brought from inside the house? Yes, sir. Be my guess, Murdoch. I mean, Dr. Rachel, did you see that? In between long sentences, he went, really at least act better yeah i mean again i think he probably prizes himself to be an extremely good actor because he's been acting his whole life he's been performing his whole life he's had a public versus private self a very extreme version of this his whole life a man who's been

lying cheating stealing and getting away with it over and over and over again is somebody who just puts on little snivels and makes all and thinks aha i i i did it again slight of hand trick. They're all fools. Another thing, Eric Blan, I want you to hear this. Almost immediately, his wife and son, their bodies are still warm. Paul's brain is blown out, and he's already spinning. Some of the dude did it. Listen. This is a long story. My son was in a boat wreck a few months back.

He's been getting threats. Most of it's been benign. stuff we didn't take serious. You know, he's been getting like punched. I know that's somebody. I know that's what it is. So, Blan, what? Mallory Beach, a 19-year-old girl

that died at the hands of Paul Murdoch, the family, what, snuck over there, ninja style, and murdered Paul and Maggie? Let's follow that through to its logical conclusion. What is he trying to say? And he's not snodding anymore either. He's trying to say that it was revenge killing for what Paul did for driving the boat that killed Mallory Beach.

Look, here's the fanciful fact. Any husband and father would have blood and mud all over them hugging their wife lying on the ground, were trying to revive their son. Nobody would have a clean white shirt on in that circumstance. They would be screaming to the heavens. He was spinning a story to try to divert the attention away from him and saying that it was some kind of assassins who came on to his property, believe it or not, Nancy, without any guns. And the idea was they're going to break into his house and steal guns and then go kill his wife and his kid. It's like when OJ said, we'll find out who killed Ron and Nicole.

They never will because they found OJ. He was the killer just like we found Alex. He's the killer. Listen to Murdoch on body cam When was the last time They are dead on day Yes sir That's what it looks like When was the last time you were here with them?

When was the last time you were here with them Or talk to them or anything like that? It was earlier tonight I don't know the exact time But I left I was probably gone an hour and a half from my mom's and I saw them about 45 minutes before that. Okay.

I rode around with Paul for two hours this afternoon in the pickup truck. That's your son, Paul? Okay. Somebody going to check them? Yes, sir. They've already checked them. They did check them. Yes, sir.

That's official that they're dead. Yes, sir. That's what it looks like. I'm sorry. You're fine. I'm very sorry. I got to call her parents. Paul thing. I mean, Jennifer Wood, he practically said, oh, thank God, they're dead. He went, oh,

okay, I'm sorry, and started blowing his nose. Listen, you check them right, and they are dead. Aren't they? They're dead. Aren't they? In other words, they can't testify that I shot them, right? And then he goes, Murdoch, is somebody going to check him? We've already checked him. Murdoch. They did check him. Is it official? They're dead. D-E-A-D. Not breathing. No Paul's dead. That's what I mean by that. I mean, he was hell-bent making sure they're dead, right? He just saw his son's brains all over everything. But he wants to make sure they're dead. In other words, they'll never testify. Yeah, that phrasing has, since the first time I heard that has always bothered me. It just is not the normal reaction of somebody who just walked onto that

scene. Bottom line, it's official. They're dead. and it's official, a reversal is coming down the pike. If you know or think you know anything regarding this double murder, please dial 803-896-2605. I know the number by heart. 803-896-2605. Why? Because if this reversal is happening, as we have been told it is, the state starts from square one building its case.

We remember an American hero, investigator Wayne David, Metropolitan PD, D.C. Shot and killed in the line of duty after 26 years leaving behind his daughter, Juanita, and son, Devon. Sentenced to life without dad. American hero, investigator Wayne David. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. And you can see Grace signing off for tonight. I'll see tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend. This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.