Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - KILLER LAWYER ALEX MURDAUGH DEATH PENALTY

Episode Date: May 19, 2026

Convicted killer Alex Murdaugh, who's murder conviction has been overturned,  is suing former Colleton County Clerk of Court Becky Hill.  He alleging she violated his civil rights by tampering with the jury during his 2023 double-murder trial. Hill previously pleaded guilty to state charges of perjury, obstruction of justice, and misconduct in office. Comments Hill made to jurors was considered as improperly influencing the verdict.   The complaint claims Hill wanted a guilty verdict to help sell her upcoming book about the trial.  Murdaugh's team is seeking more than $600,000 in compensatory damages—mostly tied to the costs of the original trial—along with punitive damages. His attorneys have stated that any recovered money will not go to Murdaugh personally, but is intended to hold Hill accountable. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Mark Peper  - Criminal defense attorney The Peper Law Firm, PeperLawFirm.com, Twitter: @PeperLawFirm Chris Mcdonough - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, https://www.coldcasefoundation.org/chris-mcdonough---law-enforcement-relations.html, Host of YouTube channel, The Interview Room. Dr. Kendal Crowns - Ft. Worth, TX Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth),  Podcast "Mayhem in the Morgue", Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University) GiGi McKelvey - Journalist, Host of the podcast “Pretty Lies And Alibis,” prettyliesandalibis.org , Facebook, IG, TikTok: @PrettyLies And Alibis, Twitter: @PrettyLiesAlibi Blanca Turrubiate-Simpson -   Alex Murdaugh's former housekeeper  Dave Mack- Crime Stories investigative reporter  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Get rewarded just for shopping with Simon Plus. Don't miss Memorial Day sales at Simon Premium Outlets and Mills. You can get points at scores of stores, access to exclusive offers, and exciting surprises. You've got an extra day off, so make it pay off, with the best deals from brands you love all in one place.

It's a summer kickoff thing. Join today at Simonplus.com. Rewards program terms apply. See Simonplus.com for details. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Two-time killer lawyer, Alex Murdoch, death penalty. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that Alex Murdoch's trial was not fair that the jury tampering affected the verdict. With all of that evidence, how could they vote any other way? Alex Murdoch is a liar and a thief and a generally despicable human being.

I really think the only thing they had, his voice being on the Snapchat. Whoopsie. Be careful what you ask, dear, for you will surely get it. That should be the phrase ringing in Alex Murdoch's ears about right now. Now, he appealed his double-murder conviction. It was reversed. He got what he asked for. But now, the South Carolina attorney general has said, you know what? We think the death penalty may be in order in this case, joining me an all-star panel to make sense of what we are learning.

That and so much more, as his fleet of defense attorneys say, it will be a game day decision whether Murdoch takes a stand. Are you kidding me? There will be no way in H.E.O.L. And speaking of H.E.W.L. It will freeze over before Murdoch puts one toe on the stand after his disastrous first appearance. Let's watch him snodding on the stand, the quivering, the snotting, the pinching oneself to make oneself cry on the stand knows no end. Take a look at this, Mark Pepper. You're the veteran defense attorney joining us out. Oh. Yep. WLTV, boy, that had to hurt. I saw that happen. And Mark Pepper, I can't unsee it. I can't unsee it.

Please, please, please put him back on the stand. What do you think? I think you'll get your wish. I think his ego will not allow him to not take the stand, much less take the advice of his own attorney. as you may recall, both Mr. Hart-Pootley and Mr. Griffin advised against him taking the stand, but that's not Alec. Alec is convinced that he can convince a juror of 12.

What we saw that day, I hope to not see again, but I suspect we will see it, and probably relatively soon, once the prey of rest, once the prosecution rests, I think they'll call him right quick. You know what? Two times around, you're thinking Murdoch is going to make an encore performance. You know what? I'll burn that bridge when I get there. But I am.

I'm going to go over to the courthouse right now, and I'm lying on the front row. I'm not moving until Murdoch gets on the stand because I need the front row. Last time I was sitting behind the one surviving family member, Buster Murdoch and his now wife, and I had to keep moving around to see what was happening, because I didn't want to watch one, I didn't want to miss one fake tear, pepper. Okay, I blame him for his conviction, but tonight, is this true?

He's actually suing court clerk Becky Hill? He's actually suing her? Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Straight out to Gigi McKelvey, joining us, investigative reporter, journalist, host a pretty lies and alibis. Gigi, wait, hold on.

Becky Hill, according to the South Carolina Supreme Court, handed him a reversal on a silver platter on top of the Christmas tree. Why is he suing her? You know, when I heard he was getting a new trial, my first thought is he is going to sue Becky Hill. Now, whether or not there's any money to be had, that remains to be seen. But yesterday at the press conference,

his defense attorney said, part of the monetary, part of the money they're seeking is to pay for his defense that he paid for for his first trial because her actions led to that being overturned and getting a new trial. I think you're awesome. You're great. You're on the ground right there. You know it like the back of your hand.

But the question was, why is he suing her? He's suing her because he wants to be reimbursed for his defense attorney fees for that first trial. They did mention they're seeking other monies, but they did not specify what for. But we do know the $600,000 specifically was mentioned for his. defense fees he paid for trial number one. Mark Pepper joining us, veteran criminal defense attorney, founded the Pepper Law Firm in South Carolina. Okay, wait a minute.

Let me understand the legal theory. She, according to the jurors, tainted their verdict. I think they found him guilty because he is guilty and the evidence is overwhelming. but two, I think two jurors stated that she made inappropriate comments and it colored their verdict. Fine. The South Carolina Supreme Court had to reverse. So he should be giving her a bonus. He should be sending her a fruit basket.

Why is she suing her? What is the legal theory that Hartputtland is pulling straight out of his bony rear end? Yeah, he should be doing exactly what he's doing, which is getting his $600,000 back that he used in expert fees. The legal theory. Why can't anybody give me a legitimate legal theory in our country? That's called a frivolous lawsuit. You can be yoasted.

Y-O-S-T, that's the name of a case, where there was a frivolous lawsuit. And has come to be a moniker for frivolous lawsuits being filed. You're going to get yosted. So can you give me a legal theory? Take two. Nancy, the legal theory is very simple. In our country under Section 1983 of our United States Constitution, we are granted the right to be free from outside influences at a trial on our trial before our peers.

When you have an independent actor who, by the way, is a state actor in this case, she's the elected clerk of court. When you have her purposely, directly influencing the jury, under the color of law, given her a position as clerk court, that opens her up to a claim of 1983, Section 1983 of our United States Constitution. That allows for her to be held liable in a civil court of law and to pay damages in addition to damages, that being $600,000 plus whatever these attorneys can elicit in the trial of that case. They would also be entitled under in 1988 U.S. Constitution section to attorney fees and costs for bringing this claim.

So I would argue that this is the opposite of frivolous. This is a very legitimate claim against a bad actor who is acting under the color of state law under 1983 U.S. Constitution. There is Alex Murdochrist crying on BodyCamp, but keep watching because suddenly he flips it off and starts checking his cell phone. Please stay on that because I want to see him checking his cell phone. I just wish I could see the text. He was actually checking that night.

Okay, hold on. While we're watching Alex Murdoch, oh, there you go, force himself to cry in front of the police. Let me understand this. Okay, Mark Pepper, please do not throw a lot of Latin phrases. Nobody likes that. Yes, lawyers are forced to learn what they mean, but we don't speak Latin. Okay.

What would be the damages? So he gets tried for murder. He gets convicted. She makes off-hand comments to the jurors that two of them say, color their verdict. He gets a reversal because of her. And he's suing for how much money? I think no jury is going to do this.

They're going to laugh him out of court. She threw him a bone, a life preserver. Yeah. I would argue quite the opposite. but for her jury tampering in his mind, he would have been acquitted. And that's his position, is that they tried a valid case. They had at least one or two jurors that clearly said she influenced their verdict. Now, keep in mind, they voted guilty.

So if they're going to take the stand and say, Becky Hill influenced my verdict, well, then they must have been leaning to not guilty. So his position is, you've now damaged me. I was going to get either a not guilty verdict or at the very worst, a hung trial, mistrial because it wouldn't be unanimous. And so you now owe me the $600,000 in quals that I had to spend to try this first case because I'm no closer to an acquittal or proving my innocence than I was way back in 2023.

Okay. I got it. I got it. I got it. So I got it. You're stating that in a nutshell, Alex Murdoch think he would have been acquitted. Yeah. but for

Becky Hill's statements to the jury. He thinks he was convicted Okay, hold on just a moment. Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us. Renowned Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, never a lack of business in the morgue, has conducted literally thousands of autopsies. He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,

and he is a star of a history. podcast, Mayhem in the Morg. Dr. Kendall Crowns, you just heard defense attorney Mark Pepper insist that the reason Alex Murdoch was convicted is because of the few offhand comments that the court clerk made, Becky Hill, could you refresh Mark Pepper's recollection as we say in court when a witness screws up on the stand. You have to go, Your Honor, may I refresh the witness's recollection? Meanwhile, you're boiling and seething inside because you have gone over the material with the witness. And yet they still say something completely different than what they told you

15 minutes before. So you have to refresh their recollection with maybe a document or in this case, a medical examiner's report. Becky Hill had nothing to do. with what happened to Paul and Maggie. Could you explain Dr. Kendall Crowns? Why? Why? The AG is now throwing the death penalty on the table. What did the autopsy tell you about the death,

the murders of Maggie and Paul? Certainly. So let's start with Maggie's autopsy. She has five gunshot wounds to her body. Two are intermediate range, meaning they have gunshot or gunpowder tattooing or stippling, meaning the gunshot wound is between two to six inches to about two to three feet away from her body. One of the gunshot wounds is actually into the back of her skull that goes through her brain. It's almost like an execution-type wound.

It appears that she gets shot in the abdomen, shot in the thigh at close range. She's probably fallen to her knees, and then the individual then shoots her in the back of the head. blowing out her brain, killing her at that point. She also has a gunshot wound to her left wrist, so she could have been holding her arm up, trying to block the incoming bullets for all we know. So she was essentially shot to her knees and then executed. The son, on the other hand, he shot twice with a shotgun.

So whoever did the killing, switched up weapons, and then killed him with a shotgun, one going through the chest, blowing out his armpit, and the other one entering into the neck and then blowing out the top of his head, blowing out his brain as well. So you have two people fatally shot. One even appears to be basically executed at the scene. So, you know, when you're beginning to talk death penalty, you've got to weigh in a number of factors, which I know you fully understand. But it does look like at least Maggie was executed at some point.

You know, while you were talking, Dr. Kendall Crowns, I was thinking about, I mean, this is Buster Murdoch, this is Alex Murdoch's son, Maggie's son. I was thinking about my own son. And I try not to place my daughter or son in the positions of the victims. But when you're describing bullets ripping through his body and I know from studying the crime scene that his brain matter was up on the top of a door. It blew out of his head with such ferocity. I know that part of his skull was found in a different location, and I think of my son's beautiful face and head. I can hardly think straight. And for Mark Pepper or Hart-Pootland or Alex and Murdoch or anybody to say

that somehow Becky Hill goes the guilty verdict. They're out of their minds. Dr. Kittle Crown, hold. Joining me right now is a very special guest. In addition to Bethany Marshall, soon to join us, Chris McDonough, Director of Cold Case Foundation, homicide detective, Dave Mack,

a friend of Becky Hills. Right now, oh, and of course, Gigi McKelvey. Blanca Turibiate, Simpson is joining us. This is Murdoch's former housekeeper. She's the author of an incredible book within the House of Murdoch. I mean, I stayed up at night and read that. Even though I knew I'd get up at 5 o'clock the next morning, I stayed up until I finished it. Within the House of Murdoch.com, Blanca, Ms. Turibatee, Simpson, thank you for

for being with us tonight. What was your reaction when you heard Murdoch's case had been reversed? First of all, thank you for having me. I was shocked, but it wasn't, the feelings were more, you know, what about Maggie and Paul? You know, here we go again. Are they going to be lost in all the frenzy? you know that that was my first feeling maggie and paul and i went to i did go to the cemetery right after i heard the news i just felt i don't know i don't know what it was i don't know

whether it was her you know i could kind of hear her you know saying girl you need to come and see me but um i just felt the urge that i needed to go by and even though they can't speak, just to say, here we go again. And that was, and I'm still upset over it. But I respect the court's decision. There's nothing I can do about it. I mean, we have to respect the court's decision. I agree with you on that, Ms. Turabay-Simson.

I agree with you. If we don't respect the court's decision, we might as well be. in a country that has a rule of man, not a rule of law. Exactly. Whether we disagree or we agree with a court's decision, you swallow it like it's a lump of coal and keep going if you disagree with it, because that is the rule of law. They have ruled and we will execute their wishes because we are officers of the court and we respect the court.

That means we have to agree with the court. But what do you make of it, Ms. Simpson, that it's all because of some comments, some offhand comments. And look, I'm not saying Becky Hill didn't make the comments, and they were wrong and they were inappropriate. And the South Carolina Supreme Court had no choice but to reverse. I get it. But I don't think that what she said is why he was convicted. Did you just hear Dr. Kendall Crowns describing a tiny, of the injuries to Maggie and Paul?

I agree with what you're saying. I believe he was convicted based on the evidence that was presented to the court. I do agree with that. But unfortunately, the limelight and the stardom, you know, got involved in all this. And it went to Ms. Becky Hill's head. and here we are again, you know. Just when we thought everybody was going back, you know, to some kind of normalcy,

here we go again with this. And it's opening up, you know, the wound that was starting to close. And it's hard. I believe the dogs told on him, you know, that he was not alone. When he made that call, he was not alone. I call him the cleaners.

I will not disclose who I believe, I know who I think they are. You know, more than positive, I know who they are. When Alex, Maggie, and Paul were at the kennels, you hear the kennel video. You don't hear the other dogs. The dogs are calm. As soon as you hear the beginning of the phone go, the dogs are barking and moving around. From our friends at Daily Mail.

Ms. Simpson, explain to me Alex Murdoch's behavior before and after the murders. They were normal. There was nothing that would say that they weren't a loving family. They were very caring for each other. They did everything together. They traveled together. He was going to be gone on the weekend. You know, him and Maggie would go together. The boys would go with him too. There was nothing to indicate that there was anything wrong with the family with anybody in the family. Of course, there was stress, you know, here and there like, you know, most families, but, you know, with a pending, you know, litigation that was coming up. But there was not any issue with them as far as, there wasn't anything indicating that there was anything, you know, wrong with a relationship or anything of that sort. After the, after the murders, he was very, he was like inconsolable. He was, you know, he would cry. He would, you know, kind of like sit and kind of like look off at a distance.

But there was a lot of people around him during that time, you know, trying to console him. And then there was moments where, you know, he was fine. And then there was moments where he would just start crying, uncle. So let me understand this. Do you in some way think Murdoch is innocent? No, ma'am, I don't. Get rewarded just for sure. shopping with Simon Plus. Don't miss Memorial Day sales at Simon Premium Outlets and Mills. You can get

points at scores of stores, access to exclusive offers, and exciting surprises. You've got an extra day off, so make it pay off with the best deals from brands you love all in one place. It's a summer kickoff thing. Join today at Simonplus.com. Rewards program terms supply. See Simonplus.com for details. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Joining me now, renowned psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction, Dr. Bethany Marshall, she's the author of Deal Breaker.

You can see her now on Peacock and Bravo, and you can find her at Dr. Bethanymarshal.com. Dr. Bethany, I dislike him even more now after hearing Ms. Simpson speak because after the murders, he sat around and let everyone console him, knowing he committed the double murders shooting Maggie and the back of the skull execution style stippling. You've been with us enough to know what that means.

That means that the gun was so close to her head, it burned her skin. And he is getting consoled and people are making food for him and bringing him flowers and patting him on the back and handing him Kleenex. really is disgusting. Well, Nancy, not only is it disgusting, it's his moment of glory, right? So, you know, Alex Murdoch was excellent. He was practiced at extracting resources from other people, whether it's money from clients' trust funds,

whether it was sympathy from the people around him. He was good at acting. And Nancy, let me remind the viewers that his offending pattern was he would spend money that was not his to spend. Maybe he stole it from a client trust account or he would like with Gloria Saturday. He would say to her son, hey, why don't it would just file wrongful death lawsuit against me and you can have the money? Then of course he keeps the money. So what he perennially has to do is steal from the next victim in order to repay the victim from the time before.

So that is exactly what he's doing with this court case. It's the same offending pattern. Now he has a chance to say, hey, I don't really. owe that $600,000 to my attorneys. Becky Hill, you pay it. You're the one who got me this guilty verdict, so you pay it. Now I have even more resources to expend, although you know what, Nancy? You know who's he's stealing from now? He's stealing from the taxpayers. He's stealing from us because this is going to be a new long, expensive court case. So the offending pattern is going on and on and on. It's like, will it never end? And I bet whatever depression he was experiencing,

bars has evaporated because he's gotten away with it once again. Dr. Bethany, what I don't understand is how you can keep a straight face with everyone rubbing your shoulders and handing you Kleenex and making you chicken soup after you just murdered your son and your wife and left them to bleed into the dirt and the dog kennel. They were all marks just like all of his clients who he stole from out of their trust funds and then the people from the church and his housekeeper and everybody cooking for him. He loves to manipulate out of other people. He loves to get things that are not his to get that do not belong to him. Even if it's just sympathy, he loves to get it. Nancy, he doesn't have a conscience.

He's one of these people where we can truly and accurately use the word cold-blooded. because if you heard the housekeeper just now, Bianca, she's talking about how he was going on trips with the kids and they're going hunting together and all of that. He's acting like a dad, Nancy, whereas people have no problem just seeing their brains splattered out somewhere. That's how little he actually thinks of them. They're just like a woman putting on jewelry. That's just adornment. It's just jewelry. It's just there to make her look better in the moment.

That's what his family was like. They actually, in a way, were like the beard. They were the people who he assembled around him to make him look normal while he was stealing from other people. So he, in a way, recruited them as foot soldiers in his crime enterprises. Joining me now, Director Cole Case Foundation, former homicide detective, who has worked over 300 homicides. And he is the star of the interview room on YouTube. Our friend, our colleague, Chris McDonough, we disagree. agree wildly on the

Guthrie case, but I believe we agree on this case. Chris McDonough, have you ever seen a defendant win in court, whether it's a not guilty verdict, whether it's a motion, whether it's getting rid of a juror they don't like, and

you look at them, you know they did it, and they're getting a victory like Murdoch has gotten. This is a huge victory. To get a reversal, on a double murder, that hardly ever happens. But it has happened.

And then the prosecutors, the sheriffs, sled South Carolina law enforcement, they have to watch him gloat. It's sickening. I'll tell you what's even more disturbing is imagining him at the funeral home or with everyone fawning all over him, and he knows he did it. Yeah, I mean, you know, we have to respect our system, right? But at the same time, to your point, exactly, Nancy. You know, this is a gentleman, you know, as the good doctor, Bethany has just pointed out,

this guy's past feeling. I mean, he has no capacity to understand what it's like to have the sense of empathy. The fact that he pulls his wife to the property that evening and then calls his son, while going to the property. So he's got two things happening. He's calling Buster, you know, just checking in on the family saying he's going to go see mom and Paul, while intensely knowing he's going to blow their heads off and or execute them, as, you know, Dr. earlier had pointed out.

This guy set this entire thing up. God set a witness at that kennel that evening, and that was the dog. and then the second piece of that obviously was the video where you can hear his voice. You know, this guy, if he ever gets another opportunity, I agree. I think he's going to take the stand. I think it would be a foolish thing to do, obviously, but I believe he may take the stand again and, you know, we're up for another crazy time. Alex Murdoch is heading to a retrial.

Very quickly to Mark Pepper, a veteran trial lawyer out of Charleston, South Carolina. It's very rare that a murder case, much less a double murder case, gets reversed, but it has happened. Is there any way on God's green earth, Mark, that the state is going to enter into a guilty plea? 0.0% chance. And even if one were to be offered, Nancy, there's a 0% chance that Alec would even entertain it. This is going to trial. But the Attorney General's office has already indicated that they intend to reindite should they choose to and get this case to trial. Perhaps by the end of the year, Dick Harputtly and Jim Griffin have all come out and said, we look forward to our day in court.

the only question is where the trial may occur and when, but there's a 0% chance that anybody will be talking plea offer. Okay. To Dave Mack joining us, crime stories, investigative reporter, that means if there's not a plea, there's going to be a trial. There's only one way Murdoch could plea without the state agreeing to it, and that would be a blind plea, which means you don't have an agreement as to the sentence. You just put it up to the judge.

and for all we know the judge could give them the death penalty on a blind plea, and you can't take it back. Once you do a blind plea, a blind plea is where the prosecutor and the defense do not agree on the sentence, and the defense just puts it to the judge, they plead guilty, and they stand there and wait to find out what the judge is going to say in sentencing. That's not going to happen. So Mark Pepper is right. There's not going to be a plea in this case.

Listen. Never will plead guilty. Off the table. We want to trial. They can dismissal. Yeah, they can dismiss these charges. You know, but he'll never enter to a plea, to require some admission that he did something he didn't do.

From our friends at Fox, straight out to Dave Matt, crime stories, investigative reporter, tell me about the death penalty. What's happening? Well, Nancy, it was interesting that Harputian said, hey, what has changed in the last few years that now you put the death penalty on the table. Well, South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson confirming that his office is considering seeking

the death penalty against Murdoch should he be found guilty a second time. The idea behind this is that when they did the first trial, Nancy, they were having problems in South Carolina with actually carrying out the death penalty. And there was a moratorium. they were dealing with the drugs and everything that goes into the actual death penalty sentence. That's why it wasn't put on the table the first time. Now that they're coming back to it, it's a much different situation. If you remember, during the first trial, there was a lot of debate over how much of the

financial accusations of wrongdoing would come into the trial. Well, that's all a foregone conclusion now. We know what he pleaded there. So this is just straight up one thing and one thing only. It's the murders of Maggie and Paul, nothing else, and now South Carolina says, we're putting the death penalty on the table, possibly. 10th, okay, 911, where's your emergency? On Socahatchee Road. Okay, what's the address on Socahatchie Road?

I'm by the church. What church are you talking about? I don't know the name of it with the Red Roof. Okay. Okay, what end of sarcantial rule? Because I don't know what you're talking about. At the Hampton County side. Okay, what's going on?

I got a flat tire. Mm-hmm. And I stopped, and somebody stopped to help me. And when I turned my back, they tried to shoot me. Oh, okay. Will you shot? Yes. But, I mean, I'm okay.

You shot where? Where were you shot at? Huh? Did they actually shoot you? they tried to shoot you. They shot me. But, okay, you need EMS? Well, I mean, yes, I can't drive.

Okay. And I'm bleeding a lot. Where part of your body? I'm not sure. Somewhere on my head. Gigi McKelvey joining us, investigative journalist hosts a pretty lies and alibis. Gigi, you remember that right? after gunning down his wife and son, he then set up an elaborate plot to have himself shot on a rural road to make it look like the real killer was after him.

Then he shows up in court after his lawyer said he had brain damage with a band-aid right here. Really? Do you remember that? I remember it well. I remember getting an alert on my phone. And at first, we all thought whoever got Maggie and Paul definitely tried to get him. But very quickly, the stories seemed to fall apart. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, bo, bo, b. Gigi, you actually thought that somebody else killed Paul and Maggie, and they were after Alex Mardog. You really thought that for a minute?

Well, at the time, I thought, why would anybody just shoot him on the side of the road? I didn't think it didn't even compute that he had set this up. I mean, it's almost unbelievable. to think that. So for a hot minute, yeah, I thought, okay, whoever got Megan? Oh my goodness. Look at your screen. Did you see that? Can I see his head again? There's the injury. I can't even see it. Yeah. My kids got worse when they were little. Yeah. Okay. There was just one time my son scraped his knee and it was worse than that. So he actually bamboozled you because when I heard he was shot in the head, but when I heard the 911, he's

perfectly lucid. The first thing I thought was, now, how did Murdoch arrange to be shot on a rural road to make it look like the real killers wandering around out there? That was my first thought. And guess what? Yeah. That is exactly what happened. Right. And after I heard that 911 call, I said, oh, no, no, no, this was set up. But just for a second, you hear, you know, our local news comes across and says, you know, Elek Murdoch shot on the side of the road. I thought, oh, man, they got him. But after hearing that 911 one call, I said, oh no, this was an inside job. He knew exactly who did it

and he set it up. Get rewarded just for shopping with Simon Plus. Don't miss Memorial Day sales at Simon Premium Outlets and Mills. You can get points at scores of stores, access to exclusive offers and exciting surprises.

You've got an extra day off, so make it payoff. With the best deals from brands you love, all in one place. It's a summer kickoff thing. Join today at Simonplus.com. Rewards program Terms Apply. See Simonplus.com for details.

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. To Mark Pepper joining us, veteran trial lawyer, in this jurisdiction. My whole point, why do I care about him having himself shot on the side of the road, just enough to make it look bad? S-O-D-D, some other dude did it.

He's going to try the same thing. From what I hear, and they may rethink this, they should. They're going to try to blame some other dude for doing it. Somebody else shot Paul and Maggie. Same thing as getting shot on the side of the road. Some other dude did it. It turns out to be his wonky cousin. That's some other dude that he paid to do it.

So are they really going to go down that road, Pepper? Well, I don't think they have a choice at this point. You know, you're trying to create reasonable doubt. One way to do it is to point to third party guilt. You know, I stay within the laws and the confines of our Constitution and our rules of evidence. But, yeah, some other dude did it is always a valid defense. We know Cousin Eddie is out there. We've got other, you know, drug smuggling operations with this opioid addiction out there.

I think we're going to see a different type of defense put on here in this next retrial. some other dude did it will play at some point in this trial. They've got everything they need to do it. They've got the Cousinetti. They've got all the characters. You've got other, you know, victims out there. You've got these bad actors down to the Walterboro all the way down to Hampton County, Buford County.

There's plenty of other people who potentially had opportunity. Now, motive, that's going to be tough to convince. Clearly, Alec would be the one that had the most motive. But certainly that is going to be. a defense in this retrial. Some other dude did it. What dude? Let me see his face while he spins out this big lie. Hold on. What dude? You're like, you know what? This is a compliment. Did you ever read to your children Rumpel Stiltskin? Do you remember that? The little imp that could take straw and spin it into gold? That's what Hart Putlion does. That's what you're doing right now. What other dude? What some other dude?

Well, the beauty of the, it doesn't matter. That's the beauty of the trial system, Nancy. Oh, my ears. They're bleeding. Give me a Kleenex. Well, look, that's what good criminal defense lawyers do. It doesn't matter? It doesn't matter.

Who you black? Just anybody will do? Well, you just, you're trying to prevent 12 reasonably minded people from convicting your client beyond a reasonable doubt. You don't have to come up with names. You don't have to come up with places and who they are. how they did it. You've just got to create the reasonable doubt by pointing to someone other than the guy sitting in the defense chair next to you. That's how those things play out. And that's what

we criminal defense lawyers do and do quite well here in South Carolina. I bet you do. You know, I've got a question. Based on what you just said, I can see Hart Putlian spinning it out and blaming somebody, somebody that would want to kill Maggie and Paul. But then suddenly it got complicated Dave Mack. Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive Dave Mack. Because in his ill-fated effort to pretend the real killer was out there and tried to kill him on the side of the road, What he has done now is forever poison his well and telling a jury, some other dude did it. Uh-uh.

Because he's already tried that once. And I can just hear the prosecution shooting a torpedo into the some other dude did it defense. And that is where the defense is headed. As Pepper pointed out, they may not have any choice. They're working with what they've got. But he's already gone to that well. He's already been there. How can he with a straight face claim, again, some other dude did it?

Dave Mack, again, back to the death penalty. A lot is riding on this. The state now announcing they are considering the death penalty on Alex Murdoch. And Dave Mack, you and I have analyzed this many, many times the aggravating circumstances required for the death penalty. Dave, such as. Mass murder. More than one body qualifies as mass murder under the law. Here we've got two. Lying in wait. He lured Maggie and Paul to Moselle, the Hunting Lodge, and he lay in wait for the right moment to murder them. Also, pecuniary or money interest. His whole point in killing them was he did not want his financial crimes to the 10 to $12 million to be exposed,

as they would in a divorce proceeding or a civil lawsuit against him and his son, Paul. So, long story short, aggravating circumstances, Dave Mack. You and I covered it the first time. It's teeming with death penalty aggravation. Nancy, you're dead on right. Everything that is needed to try this as a death penalty case is right there. When you look at the financial motive, the idea that everything in his world was falling apart financially. I mean, it was all there.

On top of that, he knew there was more damage financially and otherwise coming from a possible trial about Paul's and boat crash. So all of these negatives are stepping up. And, you know, the one thing that is not being mentioned, Nancy, is that Maggie was not staying at Moselle. she was at the beach house. She was not even, she did not want to be around her husband anymore. And he knew it. He had to lure her back from the beach house to come to Moselle that night. And it plays out the digital evidence is there that what took place that night, how it took place, and all the motivation to match up for what's needed in a death penalty case, it's right there. Gigi McKelby joining us out of this jurisdiction, South Carolina, investigative journalist,

and star of pretty lies and alibis, Gigi. What are the betting odds that the state's going to seek the death penalty? I think it's a very good chance. Just like what was just mentioned is it does check all the aggravating factors. And I think that Alan Wilson, you know, a lot of people have said is this a political move because it's a re-election year. But I do think that they will go for the death penalty just to really sock it to them for having to do this twice. and also because of what was done to Maggie and Paul

and how egregious it was. We are told Vegas odds are very slim, but pointing to the state will seek the death penalty against Alex Murdoch. If you believe, a gambling outfit, that said, the first time around,

we were told that because there had been a moratorium of sorts on the death penalty in South Carolina, it hadn't been sought for 13 years, that there was no, point in seeking it because it couldn't be obtained. Well, that has changed. Let's see if the state follows through on the double murders of Maggie and Paul. And one more time to Dr. Kendall Crowns. Dr. Crowns, could you re-enlighten us? Refresh our recollections on what happened to Paul and Maggie? So again, Maggie had five gunshot wounds about her body.

two of which one in the abdomen, one in the thigh, had gunpowder stippling or gunpowder tattooing, which means they occurred anywhere from two to six inches to two to three feet. So the gun was in intermediate range when it was shot at them. One of the wounds was to the back of her head that entered into her skull and went into her brain and would have killed her. So it does appear that she was shot down, shot to her knees and then executed with the gunshot wound being put into the back of her head. She does also have a wound to her left wrist, which could be her trying to block being shot at the time it was all occurring. The son has two shotgun injuries, one to the chest that comes into his chest and blows out of the armpit, and then one that comes into the neck and then blows out the top of his head, taking out a large portion of his brain.

So they were both shot multiple times and with different weapons, one with a high-powered rifle, the other with a shotgun. The state will have to give a clear and convincing reason under the law as to why it is seeking the death penalty second time around when it didn't the first time around to ensure to a court's satisfaction that they are not seeking the death penalty out of punishment for Alex Murdoch appealing and getting a new trial. I believe they can carry that burden. The state is building its case. It's a whole new trial. If you know or think you know anything regarding this case, please dial 803-896-2605. We remember an American hero.

Officer Jeff McCoy, Oklahoma Department Corrections, shot, killed in the line of duty after seven years, leaving behind wife, Megan, and two children, Alexander and Allie. American Hero Officer Jeffrey McCoy. Nancy Gray signing off. Goodbye, friend. Get rewarded just for shopping with Simon Plus. Don't miss Memorial Day sales at Simon Premium Outlets and Mills.

You can get points at scores of stores, access to exclusive offers and exciting surprises. You've got an extra day off, so make it pay off with the best deals from brands you love all in one place. It's a summer kickoff thing. Join today at Simonplus.com. Rewards program terms apply. See simonplus.com for details. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.