Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Killers Amongst Us: Jodi Arias Stabs Naked Lover Dead In Shower (episode 1)

Episode Date: March 31, 2021

We know the ending. Jodi Arias stabs her boyfriend, Travis Alexander, 28 times, shoots him and leaves him to die in a shower. How did it happened? How did a whirlwind romance end in murder? The couple meet in Las Vegas at a job related seminar. After just a few hours, Travis Alexander tells friends he's found the woman he wants to marry. How did it go so wrong? Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. Welcome back to Killers Amongst Us, a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. It was just a date, right? I mean, you go through your whole life looking for that special person and you go on this date and go on that date, meet this one, meet that one, date this one two months, that one three months, this one a year in the search for Miss Right or Mr. Right. Not necessarily Mr. Right now, but that's how this whole case starts. Just a date. A date with a beautiful blonde named Jodi Arias. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Killers Amongst Us. Who is Travis Alexander? Who is Jodi Arias?

First of all, take a listen to this. Jodi Arias grew up in California. When she was younger, her parents moved around a lot, ultimately settling in Huayrica in Northern California near the Oregon border. Arias was part of a larger family with four siblings. Picture-perfect author Shana Hogan tells CNN, compared to Alexander's upbringing, Arias's was more idyllic, but not without its own problems. She grew up being very artistic. She played the flute. She had a lot of brothers and sisters and was very close with them all.

So Jodi's childhood was fairly ideal compared to Travis's, but she does describe like incidences of physical violence. The Arias family opened a Mexican restaurant where, as a teenager, Jodi worked as a waitress. She developed a passion for photography and, as an adult, shot weddings and the like. Wanting to make more money and be more successful, Arias packs up and moves to Palm Desert, a California resort town. Once in Palm Desert, Arias becomes interested in pursuing the network marketing of prepaid legal. You're hearing our friend John Lindley at CrimeOnline.com. We know a lot about Jodi Arias and her life. Seemingly an idyllic childhood, but what about Travis Alexander? Now, we know Travis was good looking, charismatic, an entrepreneur, even a motivational speaker, but things weren't always so great for him. As a matter of fact, Travis was born to drug

addicted parents, and he suffered a lot as a child. His parents were poor. They neglected him. They abused him. He was teased and bullied. He had very few friends. He even ran away at just 10 years old to go live with his grandma. And that was where he became involved in the Mormon church. And he thrived there with me in All-Star Panel to break it down and put it back together again. Renowned psychologist joining me out of Manhattan, Karen Stark. You can find her at karenstark.com. That's Karen with a C. Robert Crispin, former cop,

now private investigator at crispinspecialinvestigations.com. Alexis Terescha, crimeonline.com investigative reporter, as well as with leadstories.com, who covered this case from the very, very beginning. And special guest joining us, defense attorney Kirk Nermy. Kirk Nermy has actually written the book Trapped with Miss Arias, and you can find it on Amazon. He's also cast member Radical Body Transformation, now season three on Amazon Prime. You know, I want to go first to you, Alexis Teresichuk. A lot of people don't know how Travis grew up and why it's so phenomenal that he turned his life around. I mean, he was born to drug-addled parents that literally abused him, wouldn't give care of him. I remember him saying that he would be teased by canned food as a child, but he didn't know how to use a can opener. And that just broke my heart, Alexis.

And then he turns into this great-looking, awesome guy, entrepreneur, motivational speaker. It's pretty incredible. Do you think it was the grandmother or the Mormon church that turned his life around? I think it was both of them. He was so lucky to get out of that terrible lifestyle that he had. Poor kid with his abusive parents and his grandmom took him in. He really considered her his mother. And so she is the one that introduced him to the Mormon church.

And that, those two things together completely turned his life around. And his sister talks about how that was a big transformation for their family. And it was such and it became so important to him to to lead a very religious life and to follow the tenets of the church and to do to do things to make his grandmother proud. Karen Stark, psychologist joining me from Manhattan. Karen, it's so great to talk to you. And boy, do I need a shrink to figure out these two. But, you know, this is a lot I'm learning now about Travis Alexander. I never knew about his childhood and what he lived through. And I'm just finding it how he turned his life around,

really starting at about age 10 is pretty amazing, Karen. It's amazing. And it also says a lot about his determination to make his life be better, that he had that awareness at age 10 and could tell that there was more that he wanted to do. And you think about really the strength that he had to be able to witness the kinds of things that he did and create this incredible life for himself, a motivational speaker. And I'm sure that he used that background and his speaking you know the fact that he had overcome something at such a young age or Karen Stark I mean you're the shrink

not me uh but I know you said he was so young but he wanted to turn his life around I didn't know anything like that at age 10 I was in the out building pine straw forts and throwing pine cones and riding my bike, you know, until I had to do my homework at home and have supper. So it's hard for me to relate to a 10-year-old knowing they need to turn their life around. See, from my arm's here psychology viewpoint, I would say he just got somebody that loved him and responded to that. That's absolutely part of what happened, Nancy, but you do have awareness at age 10, especially if you come from a traumatic background.

So that wasn't your experience, and you were able, luckily, to have the kind of life where you could come home, do your homework, ride your bike, but not him. He saw things and was around things that, even though, to go with me, he was young, he understood that this was better for him being with his grandma. And I'm sure, I just feel so sure that he took that in and understood he wanted to do well with his life. Not everybody would do that, but he did.

You know, Robert Crispin, former cop, now runs his own investigation firm, CrispinInvestigations.com. Robert, when I see cases where children have been abused, and I don't necessarily mean beaten or sex abused. It could be in the form of neglect. It could be in the form of malnutrition. It could be in the form of not making sure they get to school on time. It could be a million things that you really don't know till you're in it. And Jackie's shaking her head. Yes. Until you have children. I mean, every day on the way to school, did you need to put anything off? Do you need your saxophone? Do you need your gym clothes? Do you need your tennis racket? Did you do this? Did you do that? I mean, it goes on.

And there's a lot of details involved, Robert Crispin. So much. Yeah. But when I would be out on the street, as we said, out on investigation and see children being neglected, it would just break my heart because I know the stats are that they will grow up to neglect their children and so and so and so on. It's like a never ending cycle. So it's pretty amazing this guy turned his life around. You know, he is actually a success story because I can't tell you how many times, Nancy, I've arrested people that are so young.

And I start to look into their past or who the parents are when they come to pick them up or go to meet the parents and find out that the parents have extensive criminal histories. The parents themselves are drug addicts. They're separated. They don't even know who the dad are. It just trickles down to the kids. And the next thing you know, you got these kids out doing drugs at an early age. They're out doing armed robberies, violent crimes. This is a success story. He pulled himself out of that on his own. You know, he had the determination internally. Yeah, he had some help from some adults, but I can tell you from law enforcement and arresting these kids when they're young and you see these parents, they just keep going down the wrong track and they just never seem to get it right. You know, Kirk Nermy joining us, renowned defense attorney.

And from that, being a renowned defense attorney has, I guess, is this actually a verb, springboarded? He used that as a springboard to do so many things. Now an an author he's appearing on an amazon prime hit series radical body transformation after let me just say not on wood he beat cancer i mean incredible absolutely incredible kirk nurmy now kirk nurmy you've defended so many people but when you've had to defend a child or a teen offender yes I knew I had to put I remember putting the youngest young young man away ever I was told in the state of Georgia for murder and aggravated assault and I did not want to do it Kirk Nermy I did not want to do it, Kirk and Armie. I did not want him to go away for life. But I couldn't treat him as a juvenile. He unloaded, put one guy in a wheelchair with a colostomy bag the rest of his life,

killed another one over a handful of dope ropes. I mean, the law really didn't give me much of a choice. And I remember looking at him, he's like six foot three in court, and thinking what led him to right here? How did this happen? But of course, my duty was to the victims in the case. Kirk, when you would deal with juvenile offenders, they start off just like Travis did, Travis Alexander, who turned out to be a phenomenal success. What's the difference, Kirk? Well, you're right, Nancy. It's heartbreaking. I've been there many, many a time with those juvenile offenders. But the difference is this kind of intervention, and I think Alexis hit it on the head.

The grandma comes into his life, and you said it yourself, too. Somebody started to love him in the way that a child deserves to be loved. And he had the structure of his grandmother and he had the structure of the Mormon church, which gave him friends and a peer group and all the things he didn't have and gave him a point to launch towards success. And that was the key. He had hope towards success because he had the love around him that made him believe that more was possible for his life.

And a lot of juveniles, Nancy, you know, they just don't have that hope. They don't see it. You know, to you, Alexis Tereshia, you've been studying this from the get go. I understand Jody Arias was born in middle California, went to high school in Northern California, which is beautiful, and had a fairly normal childhood. There's no evidence to the contrary. In fact, according to others, she was a, quote, good girl in high school, an almost ideal childhood. What do we know if anything we know that she was a good student she was not in trouble with with her teacher she wasn't in trouble with anyone else she had three four other siblings actually and they had the family business she worked in the family business

she just had a really regular childhood where nothing stands out, where there was no trauma in her life. What about this, Alexis? The family opened, was it a Mexican restaurant, Jackie? Yes, they opened a Mexican restaurant. Everybody pitched in. And she later claimed that she was abused. But when I looked into that claim, it was that her mom carried around a wooden spoon. I mean, if you're getting spanked with a wooden spoon, that was like the few times,

and I mean maybe three in her life, Miss Lucy Lynch, my daughter, ever got spanked. When David spanked her, it had to be with two fingers between the wrist and the elbow, right there. And she would just, oh, my goodness. She would cry and cry as if the worst thing had ever happened. And listen to me. You remember this, Alexis. The only time Lucy ever got spanked was when one time she came up behind John David and hit him in the head with a wooden block.

I mean, just out of the blue. He's just sitting there watching Caillou or something. And then, bam. So, I mean, to me, getting a whack with a wooden spoon is really not the end of the earth. Of course, I quickly learned that a spanking, even with just two fingers, gets you nowhere. It gets you absolutely nowhere. We had to give that up. But a wooden spoon?

I mean, that does sound like straight out of Leave it to Beaver. It does. Well, it sounds just like a made-up story that you've heard from someone else. Oh, my mom chased me with a wooden spoon. But there was no evidence, and there still isn't any evidence that anything bad happened in her family. Well, let's go to the expert on this. Kirk Nermy, you know Jodi Eyre is probably much better than you want to. Did she suffer abuse as a child?

Is that real? Well, you know, none of us were there, right? And sometimes the appearances from the outside can look different on the inside. She was abused by her father. He was physically abusive that he tossed her around. Is there any evidence to support that? No. So I'm not in a position.

I'm not going to certainly be here defending jody areas well you know what very often kirk normie there is no witness when a child is abused so it may have happened and maybe that is why they had the attraction to each other you know take a listen to travis alexander This is our cut to now. Remember, Travis goes to live with his grandma at age 10. He gets heavily involved with the Mormon church and between grandma and the church,

they turn this child's life around. He becomes a very successful entrepreneur and motivational speaker and heavily involved still with the Mormon Church. Take a listen to him speaking at a legal seminar in Vegas. When I first started training and things like that, you can imagine the first thing I would hear a lot of is, by the way, he's single. And that's right, I am. Maybe he's going to get me.

That's been going on for six years. Do I have any replies? Is that all I need to do? you're hearing travis alexander speaking at that legal seminar in vegas and he's making everybody laugh by self-deprecating humor talking about he would mention he's single uh ladies come and get me but that he's been single now trying to get dates for the past six years. That's when everybody started laughing. And this guy is handsome. He's educated. He's successful. And, you know, there's really no surprise that he met and started dating Jodi Arias. But take a listen to our friend John Limley at Crime Online. Travis Alexander worked for prepaid legal services as a salesman and motivational speaker. Please have a welcome to the front of the room, Mr. Travis Alexander.

Friend Taylor Searle tells HLN Alexander was good at it. He really had a great way of influencing those around him, including myself, to always strive to be more. And that's the thing that he really helped those around him understand is that we are something and we're always going to be striving to be more. Tanisha Sorensen says her brother was well-liked. Very popular and very active. He did a lot of conventions where he would dress up in character and, you know. So I didn't really understand that about him, Kirk Nermy. What kind of a motivational speaker was he?

Would he talk about turning his own life around and inspire other people to do the same? Well, it was within the context of his prepaid legal business, what we just talked about, the legal insurance business, where he met Jody at this convention in Vegas. So he would motivate with his own story, and he would talk to people about, you know, bettering their economic circumstances through working with prepaid legal and motivate them in their sales careers. Well, you're absolutely right yet again, Kirk and Ermi. Take a listen to our friends at Crime Online. Travis Alexander and Jody Arias meet because of prepaid legal.

After moving to Palm Desert, Arias becomes interested in a sales position with the network marketing company, and she attends a seminar in Las Vegas. Alexander is there as well. Friend David Hughes tells CNN he told Alexander about the beautiful single girl on his team. We were there for a convention. Our company had a big event there. I was there in Las Vegas with him, and I knew that he was single, and he was always looking for Miss Alexander. And I told Travis, hey, there's this cute girl that I work with. You should meet her. And he was introduced me. And so I introduced him,

and then they were able to develop a relationship pretty quickly from there. Outside the Rainforest Cafe at the MGM Grand Hotel Alexander introduces himself. Hughes tells the rest of the story. He said hey listen do you have a nice dress because I'd like to take you to the formal executive dinner with me as my guest. After the banquet Travis Alexander and Jody Arias hang out until about 4 a.m., talking and getting to know each other. The next morning, Alexander tells friends he's found the woman that he wants to marry. Outside the Rainforest Cafe at the MGM Grand Hotel, Alexander introduces himself. Hughes tells the rest of the story.

He said, hey, listen, do you have a nice dress? Because I'd like to take you to the formal executive dinner with me as my guest. After the banquet, Travis Alexander and Jody Arias hang out until about 4 a.m., talking and getting to know each other. The next morning, Alexander tells friends he's found the woman that he wants to marry. Oh, my goodness. Karen Stark, again, I need to shrink. After one night with Arias, he wants to marry her? Well, yes, he did say that, Nancy, and that does sometimes happen.

Obviously, there was this huge attraction between the two of them. Now, wait a minute. Karen Stark. Hold on, Karen Stark. Now, wait a minute. Now, didn't you know your now husband for a long time before you guys became red hot and got married? It was not love at first sight, was it? No. Well, it might have been love at first sight, but it didn't mean we got married or I talked about marrying him right away.

But, however, there are people that actually do feel that they meet someone. They have love at first sight. They are very attracted. Don't you think a slow burn is a better idea? Like a crock pot, not red hot? I just, okay, I just said that for the first time. Don't anybody try to steal that. Okay, yes.

Probably in my opinion, it would probably be better if things slowed down as a crock pot. But red hot is often the case, Nancy. Probably be better if things go down as a crackpot. But red hot is often the case, Nancy. It doesn't surprise me at all. Well, that is what happened here. Take a listen to John Limley. Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias' relationship became red hot quickly. Within a week, the couple is having sex in a car. And according to Picture Perfect author Shana Hogan, they were inseparable.

From the very beginning, Travis and Jodi were almost in constant communication. They talked every day. They exchanged thousands of emails and text messages. They traveled extensively together from Carlsbad Caverns to the Grand Canyon. Travel was a passion they shared. But despite their similarities, there was one major difference. Alexander is Mormon. Arius is not. Well, not then, according to Alexander's brother. She started to inquire more about the LDS faith and ended up

joining the church, which I'm sure that brought their relationship, made it even stronger. Another obstacle to their relationship is distance. Arias lives in California, Alexander in Arizona. Okay, whoa, wait a minute, wait a minute. Alexis Terescha, didn't you leave out a couple of facts? So they meet, and in one week they're having sex in a car. They are. There was some instant attraction there. I can't believe it wasn't the first night in Vegas. Why not?

So this is the thing that was a problem. And this starts as a very early problem in their relationship because in Travis's religion, it is very important not to have sex before marriage. And he knows this. He's been a devouton at this point for over a decade and he knows that this is something that's very important in the religion however they can't resist it they're both young they're both very attracted to each other and so they do have sex but it becomes something that he wants to hide so he wants to hide the fact that they're having sex do i understand that correctly yes yeah well you know what um i don't know why it's seemingly okay for men to have multiple sex partners but then when a

woman does it she's like um a slut but if a virgin is what travis alexander is looking for well he's barking up the wrong tree. Take a listen to this. Religion is very important to Travis Alexander. And in the Mormon faith, chastity and marriage and age is very important. As friend Chris Hughes explained to ABC 2020. In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in these singles congregations that they've got set up across the world. When you turn 31, you're out.

You know, like you have to go to a regular congregation. Almost like you're getting moved from the main toy box to the broken toys. You know, like the broken toys go over here. So Travis is feeling the pressure to settle down and start a family. Within a couple of months of their meeting, Arias is converted to the Mormon church. In fact, Alexander baptized her. One would think that would strengthen the relationship, but now they are both following Mormon tenets, and an important one is sex before marriage is a sin, and Jodi and Travis were sinning

a lot. In her journals, Arias describes their sexual fantasies in details and this was causing moral dilemmas for alexander to kurt nurmy joining us legal commentator author of trapped with miss area star on amazon prime's body transformation kurt tell me what happened i mean she converts to the mormon faith because of travis alexander but yet travis is then plagued because of the sex right right and nancy he travis was plagued by this idea of having a sexual relationship because it was taboo all his friends were in the mormon church we heard the clips of chris hughes talking about the need for chastity everything else so this was a big problem for him in terms of his peer group and in terms of his social status with his company, because he had this image of being this Mormon man in search of the perfect Mormon girl. Backing up a bit, she is also living with a man in California. So they begin this kind

of meeting at the Hughes's house, having this relationship. And it's all meant to be kind of secret. And he ultimately he wants this Mormon wedding. He wants all these things. And based on that, to kind of bring some legitimacy to it, they are working towards being the Mormon couple. And she begins the process of conversion. I want you to hear this. She describes starting with oral sex in a parking lot near a Starbucks, it goes on to anal sex. As a matter of fact, the day that Travis Alexander baptizes her at the Mormon church, they go straight back home. They make a beeline back to the apartment, back to the home for more anal sex. G. Gasaris, very quickly, this is intended to paint a bad picture of Travis Alexander. That he basically used her for sex and then ignored her, mistreated her, took her for granted.

That's the picture I'm getting, right? He was her spiritual advisor who baptized her and she seemed to follow everything he said. To Alexis Terescha at CrimeOnline.com, investigative reporter, also with LeadStories.com. On Twitter, she's at Swimmy2009. Alexis, tell me about their relationship, because I remember distinctly an anecdote about Travis Alexander going to the mall to buy her her favorite Cinnabon and leaving it on her car all kind of sweet things they had a really sweet relationship they he would tell her just how much he adored her also how attracted he was to her they traveled together they were in san diego they were in waterfalls there were lots of pictures they were this very happy very young

successful couple up and coming travis owned his own house he was very successful at a very young age and they they seemed perfect to everybody that would look at it from the outside ro Robert Crispin joining me, former cop, now private investigator with Crispin Special Investigations dot com. Robert, it's great to have you on with us. How many times have you seen crime that stems out of romantic obsession? Domestic violence is rampant. You know, I have a saying for what you guys were talking about earlier about these relationships that start out so quickly and it's in like a meteor and it's out like a meteor. You know, we talk about slowing things down, getting to know

each other, then getting into a sexual relationship. But in today's world, it's just not like that anymore. But domestic violence, I see it all the time from people that you would never think. They look like the perfect couple. It's everywhere. It's just it's behind closed doors. You don't see it. And sometimes you see it when you're sitting at a restaurant or you're flying in flight and people start fighting. It's crazy.

Guys, I want you to take a listen to our friends at 2020. Travis and Jodi have been dating for a couple of months when his friends started noticing there's something off with Jodi, something not quite right. For example, one night we're all in the hot tub. There's four of us, you know, this is a time to chat and hang out. Well, Jodi is like climbing on Travis while we're trying to have this conversation.

She was all over him. I mean, like eighth graders whose parents are out of town, like straddling his lap and sucking on his neck. And Travis just kept pushing her off. And he's like, Jodi, get like, get off me. Like, what are you doing? And I look at Chris, I'm like, does she not realize we're sitting here? That was one of those nights where we're like, she's weird. You know, this is weird. The love, the infatuation, the red hot romance begins to turn sideways. Nancy Grace, Killers Amongst Us, signing off. Goodbye, friend. you're listening to an iHeart podcast