Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Killers Amongst Us: Jodi Arias Stabs Naked Lover Dead In Shower (episode 3)

Episode Date: April 30, 2021

We know the ending. Jodi Arias stabs her boyfriend, Travis Alexander, 28 times, shoots him and leaves him to die in a shower. How did it happened? How did a whirlwind romance end in murder? The couple meet in Las Vegas at a job related seminar. After just a few hours, Travis Alexander tells friends he's found the woman he wants to marry. As the relationship develops, friends begin to take notice of odd behavior, but warnings to the enamored Alexander initially went unheeded. Alexander began to show interest in other woman. Did that signal the end of his relationship with Jodi Arias? Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. Welcome back to Killers Amongst Us, a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. You know, we go through life and we meet so many people along the way, people you pick up and leave behind or you pick up and carry with you for a while. And it seems like it all weaves in and out as you go through life. And you really never know who you're passing along the way, whose life is going to intersect with yours, and what, if any, effect it may have. Well, the same thing here.

Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander's lives intersect, or should I say, collided. Who would have ever suspected killers amongst us? I'm Nancy Grace. Thanks for being with us. With me is what a group of experts. Alexis Teresz, Chuck, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, also with LeadStories.com, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network, death investigator, Karen Stark, renowned psychologist joining us out of New York. You can find her at karenstark.com. Kirk Nermy, legal commentator, cast member, Radical Body Transformation Season 3, Amazon Prime.

And more importantly, in my mind, author of Trapped with Miss Arias. You can find him at karenstark.com. Special guest with me, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander's, Chris Hughes, inspirational speaker, author of an Amazon number one seller, Our Friend Travis, The Travis Alexander Story. You can find him on Insta at TheRealCSHughes. Guys, thank you for being with me. Before we go forward, I just want to pause a moment and think about Travis Alexander and how he and Jodi Arias have affected in some way all of our lives. We left off with friends warning Travis Alexander that Jody Arias was not as she seemed,

but he was hooked. Or should I say they were hooked on each other. It was like a drug. No matter how many times you warned him, Chris, he would not break up. Yeah, it was a weird thing. I think what you said was accurate. They were hooked on each other. She had her hooks on him.

She wanted to be married so bad and play house. And Travis had been living the Mormon lifestyle for a long time, and then suddenly he's not living so Mormon anymore, you know, with their rendezvous, and they couldn't give each other up, unfortunately. Everything that Jodi Arias was doing was calculated toward marriage with Travis Alexander. She found a catch and she was not letting go, much less throwing it back in the water. That was not going to happen. Take a listen to Aaron Dewey speaking to me. Aaron, you told me that you lived with Travis during the time he dated Jodi Arias. What was that relationship like? What did you observe, if anything? You know, when they first met, Travis was on Cloud 9. Here was a very attractive young lady

that he had met at that convention in Las Vegas. They shared a lot of similar interests and similar passions, a real drive and ambition in life. And so he thought he had found the one. And at the beginning of the relationship, everything seemed like it was going to go perfectly and possibly go all the way. You know, things deteriorated quickly. There were lots of trust issues. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Right there, right there, Aaron. Let's not put perfume on the pig.

What do you mean by there were a lot of trust issues? Well, you know, she's admitted in some of her statements that she would go through his emails, his social media accounts, his text messages. There was a time when they were on vacation together and he was a sleeper in the shower and a text message came in from another girl and she responded to that girl as if she was Travis, telling her how happy he was to be with her, and she's the best thing that ever happened in an attempt to scare this girl away from Travis. Okay, right there. Alexis, I want to come to you for the facts behind that, but just right there. Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, joining us out of manhattan

going through somebody's text messages their emails much less doing it on the sly when the person is asleep or in the shower i mean waiting for that moment and then actually responding to someone as if you are the owner of the phone? That's beyond the pale, Karen, right there. Not beyond the pale for somebody who has an antisocial personality, Nancy. This is somebody who has to have possession of the other person in dominance. It's pathological possessiveness. Where he was, what he was doing and had total control. Kirk Nermy, author of Trapped with Ms. Arias on Amazon. Kirk, I think I told you about the time

I was alone with David's laptop, my now husband. And I thought, well, I guess I better check his emails. I didn't really even have a curiosity, but I thought, well, here's his email. It's open and I'm alone. I'll check it. I thought I was going to die, Kirk. It was so boring. No matter how much I looked, I found nothing. It was all about business transactions. My eyes were bleeding.

I swore to never subject myself to that again. And I have not. And I'm happy to say that was over 15 years ago that I dared to look at his email it was awful my point is uh what right there you were quote trapped with Miss Arias did you ever feel that she was second guessing everything you said and not trusting what you had what your thoughts were well what Karen said was exactly right about control. Miss Arias wants to have control. She wants to have dominance over a person. So one of the things I experienced in my five and a half years, yes, Nancy, five and a half years of being trapped with Miss Arias was the constant phone

calls, the constant need for control, the constant monitoring, the constant desire for attention to make sure that she was in control. I saw that for five and a half years. Well, you know what, Travis was really no match for that kind of single-mindedness. But listening to his friends, things slowly began to change. Take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. It didn't take long for the relations to cool, partly because of Travis Alexander's interest in other women. Here's Picture Perfect author Shana Hogan. Jodi went through his phone and discovered these flirty messages to other women, and she decided to end the relationship at that point.

But at the same time, Travis was looking to end the relationship. And partly because of Arias' possessiveness. The couple did end the relationship, but continued to be friends with benefits. You know, that whole friends with benefits, that sounds way off kilter to me. You're supposed to be friends, but you're sleeping together. I just don't see how that can ever work out in any good way. Never a good ending there. So Alexis Tereszczyk joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

Things finally began to cool down. How? Well, Jody actually moved about 1,000 miles away from Travis. He was living in Phoenix, Arizona. She, at this point, had no job. She wasn't living with him. She wasn't living with any of her other ex- Arizona. She at this point had no job. She wasn't living with him. She wasn't living with any of our other ex-boyfriends. She kind of had no option. She, you know, she had no boyfriend, no job. So she moved back home to Wairika, California,

which is kind of right on the border of California and Oregon. It's very Northern California. Her family owned a restaurant and she moved back there. So they were not really in contact in person, but they kept up their very spicy sex, phone sex conversations, which there are tons. So they kept their, as you say, spicy sex life through phone sex. With me, Alexis Tereshka, CrimeOnline.com and LeadStories.com. Alexis, hold on, hold on. So they break up. Wait, let me go to Chris Hughes, longtime friend of Travis Alexander's.

Did he reveal to you that he and Jody had broken up? You know, it's all so fuzzy to me. I mean, I really, in all the conversations I had with Travis, I don't ever remember him telling me he was with her. You know, hey, she's my girlfriend now. You know, we're in a committed, loving relationship. We never had that conversation. So there was no, there was no conversation to be had on the backend, you know, to say, Hey, we're update, we're broken up now.

But the only thing that he ever did say to me is, is he would complain. He would complain about her, um, you know, little things here and there. He never told me about the big things, because if he told me about the big things,, like, slashing his tires and and stealing things from his house, you know, I would have been like, you know, I told you, did I tell you? Didn't I tell you she was nuts? So he wouldn't he would never tell me about the big, like really violating psychotic things that she was doing. And I had to find out about much, much of this after the fact, unfortunately. Well, you're absolutely right, Chris Hughes. Take a listen to our friends at ABC's 2020. I absolutely know that she was stalking him many times. So just like when she

went in through the back door, when he was, you know, kissing another girl in his couch, I mean, she's spying on him. That's what's really happening there. She slashed his tires. She broke into his email account. She hacked into his Facebook page. She broke into his house and stole his journals. She read his diary. She just did these crazy stalking behaviors. Okay, whoa, wait. It's just like drinking from the fire hydrant.

There's just so much here. You can't drink it all in at once. Alexis Tereschuk, speaking of her showing up after they're broken up okay so they break up she shows up at his home what a coinkydink that it's when he has a date with another woman now you know she was hacking into his email and text his phone messages she knew they had a date and so she was hanging around stalking out as a, you know, really watching.

Could have been arrested. Could have been arrested for being like a peeping Tom for trespassing. And can you imagine you've got a date, you don't really know the person, and you're potentially sharing your first kiss on the sofa and then out of the corner of your eye you see Jody Arias' head loom up behind the bushes.

And this terrified not only Travis, but all his roommates were really afraid of her. And then he gets up one morning, and his tires are splashed, his new car, and they immediately, there's not even a question in anyone's mind. They're not thinking, oh, this is maybe some teenage pranksters in the neighborhood. Nope, everybody knew it was Jodi Arias. There wasn't a share. What is the phrase? An ounce of doubt. I'm losing. A shred of doubt. Shred. Oh, thank you. Yeah. And what about that, Chris Hughes? He never told you that he suspected Jodi Arias of slitting his tires? Towards the very end, he did because it was, I mean, it had gotten out. You know, we were all talking about it because it happened twice.

It didn't just happen one time. It happened twice. And it was on his BMW. And anybody who's ever owned a BMW, those tires are about, you know, $300 to $500 each. And it was devastating. You know, financially, he wasn't in a good spot. And here's this psychopath cutting his tires.

And I remember the second time, he didn't even know what he was going to do. He was so distraught financially, you know, he couldn't pay for another tire. It's like, how many times do I have to do this with this woman? Wow. So did he ever talk to you about when she kind of like rose up in the window while he was kissing his new date? No, he wouldn't dare. He never brought that up. Well, speaking of stalking, staking out, the two were technically broken up, but one thing seemed to hold them together.

A hot sex life. Listen. You are right in the bath. Oh, when we took a bath together? Uh-huh. That was surreal, like, honestly. And I think, I mean, maybe the candlelight and the bubbles all had something to do with it, but you were amazing. You made me, seriously, you made something to do with it. But you were amazing.

You made me, seriously, you made me feel like a goddess. Like, I wasn't saying you were, like, worshiping me, but you were, you made me feel like I was the most freaking beautiful woman on the whole planet. Right? I so felt like I was a goddess. And so, aside from all those warm, fuzzy feelings, but, like, it was so sexy, and it was so hot, and, oh, gosh. Oh, my God. Well, that's...

I love how hard it makes you feel, like, because you were freaking... You were hot. You were... You are. Seriously, I don't want to... I don't want to... Because I'm touching yourself. Oh my gosh. Like that? I'm going to tie you to a tree and... Oh, my gosh. That is so debasing. I like it.

Okay, so that's just a tiny tidbit of the fantasy life and the phone sex life that Arius was serving up, And Travis Alexander fell for it. And yes, he went along with it. Yes, he continued to have sex with Jodi Arius. I mean, I wonder if he had any idea that he was being manipulated by sex all along. I mean, Karen Stark, this is the oldest story in the book. It certainly is, Nancy. And, you know, we're talking about it. We're listening to the voice of somebody who was really manipulated by her. And that is not a difficult thing to do when you're dealing with

someone who's a psychopath, because she comes off, listen to her, she's giggling, you know, like, oh, I'm a little embarrassed to be saying this, but it's hot. And it can be very enticing to someone who doesn't realize that they're dealing with a machine, a person who is devoid of guilt and empathy and who is very, very dangerous. And, you know, I want to go now for the first time to death investigator, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan. Joseph Scott, the sex aspect of their relationship after the breakup is very critical because from what I've seen, and this is anecdotal on my part, when you have a sex-fueled attack, the crime scene is crazy. Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's it's it turns in a lot of these that I've seen over the years turn into just absolute bloodbath. To Chris Hughes, longtime friend of Travis Alexander's. Chris, did you have any idea? I mean, did Travis tell you he was still seeing

Jody Arias for sex? True. They weren't really getting back together, but they were still seeing each other. Yeah, he didn't mention it. I mean, the timeline of all of this gets fuzzy after all these years, but I do remember that they were continuing to take trips together. I would either see online or would hear about them taking trips. But no, he just didn't talk about it. You know, I mean, after that experience in my house and I told him she's not welcome here and Sky kicked her out of our house and told her what she really thought about her. Unfortunately, Travis kind of took that whole relationship underground.

We just didn't talk about her because he knew exactly how I felt about her. So he certainly didn't tell you he was hooked up? No, he definitely didn't tell me that. To Alexis Tereschik joining me, CrimeOnline.com. Alexis, how was Jodi Arias still seeing Travis Alexander? I mean, she lives a whole state away. She would drive down and meet him. And they would meet up. They would have their secret rendezvous. And, in fact, he even told her that he was going to take her on a trip. He was going on a business trip where it was a reward for the highest sellers. And he was going to take Jodi on this trip to Cancun, Mexico with him. But this is what he told her.

Now, is that the same trip he ended up planning to take another woman? Yep. Changed his mind after things went, you know, they had kept up their phone sex. They, they saw each other. She would drive down there secretly, but then he told her, I'm not taking you anymore. I'm going to take another woman. And her response was to drive all the way, I guess, across the desert to get to him and have a day of marathon sex to convince him to take her instead of the other day. Karen Stark, you're the shrink. And boy, do we need a shrink right now. If a guy told me, hey, you know, I promised I was going to take you to Cancun, but I decided to take somebody else,

I would never call him, text him again. And no matter how I felt about it, and it might kill me to cut it off, that would be it. I sure as hell wouldn't drive across a desert to get to him for a day of marathon sex to convince him otherwise i mean who wants them for pete's sake but that's not the way she saw it karen stark no she didn't because you're talking about yourself man's the irrational person and you're not talking although she wasn't irrational, we're talking again about that possessiveness, that pathological possessiveness. She had to have him. It had nothing to do with

love or caring. He could not be with someone else. And so in a way, it was a challenge for her. She drove across the desert. She was going to do any kind of sexual act or thing that she could possibly do to get this guy to stay connected to her. Because this was a challenge and a game. It had nothing to do with feelings. It's almost like, let me go to Kirk and Nermy. You've spent more time with Aries than any of us have. It's almost like an addiction. Like any contact with your target.

If you're a stalker with your love object, any contact, if it's a phone call, if it's a text, if it's you force yourself on them by driving across the desert to be with them, whether they're expecting you or not. It is like a hit of crack or a hit of heroin. It calms you down for a little while, at least until you need another hit. Did you get a peek of that part of Jodi Arias's personality? Oh, unfortunately, I got more than a peek, Nancy. And you bet. I mean, that is exactly it. The need to control has to be satiated over and over again. And I certainly remember when I tried to get away from her in April of, or excuse me, in January of 2011,

when I was going to leave the public defender's office. She did absolutely everything she could. She got the judge to appoint lawyers on her behalf to do everything she could, call me as many times as a day she could with her different arguments of why I should remain as her lawyer when I was trying to get off. So she did everything she could to keep that control to keep that possessiveness. And ultimately, you know, she was successful. Sadly, you know, Kurt Nermy, you kind of dodged my question when I asked you this before. But I think she flirted with you. I dodged my question when I asked you this before. But I think she flirted with you.

I think she used her sexuality. And you don't have to go tell me about how happy you are in your marriage and all that. I know that. That's nothing to do with her flirting with you and trying to control you with a sexual aspect. Well, look, Nancy, I don't. Just so you know, we saw it in the courtroom, Kirk. So you can pretend it didn't happen. But what should I believe? You are my lion eyes.

It's it was something, as I always said, she tried right in the beginning. It doesn't go very far. And as Karen would probably say, someone like Miss Arias learns how to control someone or learns the best buttons to push as they move along. And soon she learned that those buttons weren't available to her. So she just tried another button, like your ethical duty to stick with her and put her at a disadvantage. Exactly right. Okay.

But just so you know, I know that the flirting happened. So as much as you want to deny it, I saw what I saw. All right. Okay. You say potato. I say potato. But have it your way. So here we see her driving across the desert for this day of marathon sex to convince Travis Alexander that he should take her to Cancun and not him.

Chris Hughes, longtime friend of Travis, did you know there was a Cancun business trip coming up? Absolutely, yeah. Travis and I were supposed to go together. We had been planning it for a long time. He never mentioned to me that he was going to take Jody. Well, I shouldn't say never mentioned. I don't remember it at this point if he did say he was going to be taking Jody, but these things you qualify, you know, and then it's several months, I mean, maybe even six

months more that you have to wait before you, before you actually take the trip. And so the last, I don't know, maybe the last month of Travis's life, he had this major scheme, you know, he had this plan, he was so excited about it, because he was dating, well, he had this major scheme, you know, he had this plan. He was so excited about it because he was dating, well, he was interested in a new, this new woman. She was not really interested in him. She just was more about friendship, but he had this whole plan about, you know, Hey, if, if, if she sees me in my element and sees me with all of my colleagues and how I am with you guys and how I am with your kids, you know, maybe she'll see a different side of me and start to like me,

you know, in a romantic way. So he was putting this whole thing together. And yeah, we were we were supposed to be on that trip together. So on the eve of the trip, Jodi Arias literally crosses the desert to convince Travis Alexander that she was the best one to go with him to Cancun. Take a listen to Zach Billings speaking to me. That day I remember I was actually watching a movie with my girlfriend at the time, or my wife now. And I remember getting a knock on my door and Travis's friends came to the door

and they said, have you seen Travis? And I said, well, no, I haven't seen Travis. He's supposed to be in Cancun or out on vacation right now. And they said, yes, he is, but he's supposed to be in Cancun or out on vacation right now. And they said, yes, he is, but he's supposed to be here with me, with Mimi. And so I said, well, have you checked his bedroom? And that was my first thought. So they said, well, no, we have and the door's locked.

And I said, I think he keeps a spare set of keys downstairs. So I went downstairs and I searched for him and grabbed a few sets of keys and came back upstairs and tried a few different sets of keys. And one of them happened to be his bedroom key. As soon as the door was opened, my heart just sank. On the right hand side, I did end up seeing a pool of blood and looked down the hallway and saw just blood strewn throughout the hallway.

And my heart just sank. I ended up going into the closet that's adjacent to the hallway, and it opens up to the bathroom as well. And that's when I saw his body, and I came back out, and I just told everybody he's dead. I called 911. What happens next? Nancy Grace, signing off from Killers Amongst Us.

Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.