Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Killers Amongst Us: Mom of 3, Michelle Parker, vanishes after ‘The People’s Court’ appearance. (episode 4)

Episode Date: January 29, 2021

Michelle Parker is a loving, hardworking mother of 3. She's also a student and a business owner, but one night this reliable employee did not show up for work. Her 11-year-old son, home alone after school couldn't find his mom. The alarm is sounded and the search for Michelle Parker begins. Now a person of interest emerges. joining Nancy Grace today: Yvonne Stewart - Michelle Stewart's mother. John W. Dill - Personal injury lawyer, part of the Parker family's legal team Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute founder Dr. Jenn Mann - Marriage and Family Therapist, Host 'Couples Therapy' on VH1, Author: "The Relationship Fix." "The Dr. Jenn Show” on Sirius XM Bianca Prieto, former Orlando Sentinel Criminal Justice Reporter  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. Welcome back to Killers Amongst Us, a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. How do you know who is around you? How do you know who's walking beside you at the mall or the grocery store or when you're out for a walk or a jog and you pass people who wave and smile? Who are they? I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Killers Amongst Us. We're the mom to beautiful children, the daughter to loving, devoted parents? Where is she? What happened to Michelle? First of all, take a listen to our friend Bob Keeling at WESH2. When Parker was last seen dropping off her twins at their father Dale Smith's condo, her Hummer had this sticker advertising her home tanning business. Hours later, when red light camera video picked up footage of it being driven at Conroy and Vineland,

the sticker was gone. Police suspect someone involved with her disappearance pulled into this remote area to strip it off and make the vehicle less recognizable. We don't know who was driving it, but somebody was driving it. And I hope to God they're as nervous as hell that we're coming after them. A lead detective tells West 2 this area is also where Parker's phone pinged for a final time with a text message police believe someone else sent to give her family the impression Michelle was still alive. So we've got the car.

We now have the cell phone discarded into a body of water. We've got video surveillance. We've got everything but Michelle. With me, an all-star panel, Bianca Prieto, former Orlando Sentinel criminal justice reporter. You can find her on Insta at Bianca Prieto. Dr. Jen Mann, marriage family therapist, host couples therapy on VH1, the Dr. Jen show on Sirius XM, author of the relationship fix. And you can find her at drjen.com. Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Find her at coldcasecrimes.org. John W. Deal, renowned lawyer out of the Orlando jurisdiction. He's been on Team Find Michelle from the get-go.

And you can find him at johnwdill.com. Awesome lawyer. But special guest joining me right now, a voice we've been waiting to hear, Michelle's mother, Yvonne Stewart. Ms. Stewart, after all this time, I feel like I know you as to so many other legal eagles across not only the country, but the world. As you join us today, recall the first moment you learned Michelle is missing. I'll never forget that moment. And excuse me, because I do because it's pure love tears to heaven um i was at the salon and her oldest son at the time austin he was 11 and he called and it was dark and she didn't come home to meet him at the school bus and he waited a few hours and then he called the salon

to talk to my daughter lauren to see if she was at the salon with us. And we knew then that something wasn't right because I had spent the morning with her and she told me she had to run some errands and she ran them for the salon, brought them back to the salon. And then she said, I'm going to go pick up the twins and then I'm going to go home, take a nap. I'm tired. So that didn't add up. You know, that's one of the worst things. The very few times in all the years the twins have been in school is when I drive up and they're the last ones there. It's happened twice. They're 13, and they started going in pre-K,

and she would never have left him standing there. Never, Yvonne. No, he rode a school bus, and we only lived down a very short little road in the country. And she is always there when he gets home from school. And he would call or she would call him, say, I'm five minutes away or whatever. She was one of the most involved moms, like we all are. You know, all good moms do that. Yvonne, when you realized she wasn't where she was supposed to be, what went through your mind? And the twins, who were three and a half, over to their dad's house for his weekend visitation rotation.

And I knew that the People's Court had aired that afternoon. Well, hold on right there. Speaking of People's Court, take a listen to our friends at Fox News. A search is underway in Florida for a young mother who disappeared the same day that her case aired on a TV show, The People's Court. Her name is Michelle Parker, mother of three, has not been seen since Thursday. She and her ex-fiancee appearing on that show in a heated dispute over a $5,000 engagement ring. Now, her sister speaking out on Fox & Friends a bit earlier today. It's definitely a fact that she went missing the same day of.

Whether or not it's a coincidence, I don't know. I don't know if somebody saw her on TV and thought, hey, she's beautiful and did what they do and, you know, figured out where she was at or something. I really, I don't know. And take a listen to our friend Matt Gutman at ABC. It seemed like a typical episode of the People's Court. He gets pretty malicious and vindictive, and he's a mean person, especially when he's been drinking. 33-year-old Michelle Lee Parker and her ex-fiancee Dale Smith bickering over an engagement ring thrown out of a balcony.

And then he said that he wanted his ring. So I took it off, and I threw it at him. But away from the camera, even their mundane domestic arguments tended to turn violent. As he grabbed and turned around, he was holding onto me, screaming at me, pointing back up to the stage, going, get on that back up on stage, you know.

Just hours after this episode of The People's Court finally aired last Thursday, Parker vanished. But was her disappearance eerily foreshadowed, or was it an uncanny coincidence? Let me understand this. Bianca Prieto, former Orlando Sentinel criminal justice reporter at Bianca Prieto. Bianca, the program, People's Court, one of the biggest judge shows that there has ever been on TV. She, Michelle Parker, taped a show with Dale Smith, the father of the twins. Now, the older boy is from her first marriage, the 11-year-old, but the twins are from Dale Smith Jr. They were on People's Court

the day she disappears, Bianca it was taped before and you know sometimes they hold them and then they air them later well it was that same exact afternoon it's a big tv show everybody knew that it was coming out and then that same afternoon she goes missing never heard from again take a listen again to matt gutman abc i ended up smashing my camera on the ground because i was a little angry and i didn't want to. Well, you sure showed that camera. Smith is the father of their three year old twins. It's been a hell of a roller coaster ride and it's poison. Something Parker knew for years. In 2009, she filed and was granted a restraining order against Smith. Parker claims he, quote, smashed the passenger side window in my SUV, took car seats

out and threw them into the road. His Facebook page lists his education as having, quote, studied death, destruction, terror and mayhem at the U.S. Marine Corps. But Orlando police say Smith is not a suspect and that he has so far cooperated with investigators. We're not looking at him. We're looking at everything. Back to Michelle's mother, Yvonne Stewart, with us. And again, Yvonne, thank you, because I know this hurts so much for you to talk about it. But what attracted her to Dale Smith Jr. to start with? She really didn't like him when she first met him. And I think that some of his friends approached her and said, he's a really great guy. He really likes you. I think you should give him a chance.

And after she dated him for a while, she saw the temper and the behavior. And she was looking for an apartment to move out so I could be on her own. And she found out that she was pregnant. And then a couple months later, they found out it was twins. So she wanted to try to make it work so she reconciled you know that's what that's what women in domestic violence situations do when they have children they they just want to believe that it's going to get better and it never does it just gets worse to dr jen man marriage and family therapist host couples therapy v, VH1, Dr. Jen Show Series XM, author of Relationship Fix at drjen.com.

Dr. Jen, statistics show that it is when the woman tries to break off the relationship, not just talk about it, but actually do it and leave, that that is when violence typically escalates. Yes, Nancy. I spent many years working for the Los Angeles Commission on Assaults Against Women as a rape and domestic violence counselor. And I remember early on in our training that that was one of the first things we learned, that when a woman leaves an abusive partner, that the odds of her being killed go up exponentially. Let me emphasize that Dale Smith Jr., the bio dad of the twins, has not been formally charged in the death or disappearance of Michelle Parker. To Yvonne Stewart, this is Michelle's mother joining us. Why did she, Michelle Parker, decide to go on to people's court. They filmed that in June the same year, 2011.

Dale found out that if you go on the people's court, nobody has to pay, that the people's court will pay whatever the decision is. And they flew her up separately in her own plane. They put her in a different hotel so she wouldn't have to have any face-to-face with him. And immediately afterwards, they scooped her up and took her to the airport and she flew home. She said it was the most humiliating day of her life that the judge was actually flirting with Dale.

She said it was disgusting and she never ever wanted to see it. And that's what she told me the day she went missing She said it was disgusting, and she never, ever wanted to see it. And that's what she told me the day she went missing, because she knew that it was going to air. And she said, I don't even want to see it. Who was the judge? That woman with the long, brown, reddish hair. Judge Milligan. I think it's Judge Milligan.

Yeah. She told Michelle that she was an idiot on that show. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Somebody call Michelle an idiot? Yeah. Is that a judge? And this is a woman who is working a day job taking care of three children, including little twins, and going back to school, and she's the idiot? No. You can see Michelle clenching her teeth and her jaw is flexing. And I know my daughter, she was keeping it together because she was not an idiot.

She got out of an abusive situation a year prior, and the Hummer was still in his name, and he wanted it off, so she made arrangements to buy a Suburban. It was coming the next day, so she's not an idiot. Marilyn Million, yes, you're absolutely right. John Deal, was that you jumping in? Go ahead. Like Yvonne was saying, this turned out to be something that she, you know, it was not a pleasant experience, knew this was coming on,

didn't want to see Mr. Smith in the first place. And then certainly airing again was, you know, not something she was happy about or looking forward to. So she never even watched the episode. Listen again to our friend Matt Gutman. Parker was a doting mother who was forced to move back home by economic hardship and that bitter breakup with Smith. She became a reluctant participant on the show. It was just so that she couldn't wouldn't have to pay for that engagement ring. She said that was the most humiliating experience of my life. I don't I don't even

ever want to see it. While it's not clear whether Parker watched that episode of the people's court, her mother claims one thing seems clear so far. I know that Dale Smith was the last person to see her alive. The police have investigated. They've talked to him. They've searched everything he owns. But the timing of Parker's disappearance continues to mystify investigators here. Again, let me emphasize that Dale Smith,

Jr., the bio dad of the twins, has not been formally charged in the death or disappearance of Michelle Parker. You know, to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Yvonne Stewart, Cheryl and I go back way, way back to when I was prosecuting in inner city Atlanta and on scenes investigating crimes. You know, Cheryl, this is anecdotal. I don't have statistics, black and white in a book, but I'm telling you, I have never believed in coincidences when it comes to criminal law. No, ma'am, not at all. And I don't like this one bit. You've got somebody with a past violent history toward her, somebody that she's gotten a restraining order for, the last person to see her, the person that never looked for her, Nancy,

and the first chance he got, even though she's missing, moved to Tennessee. Guys, many of us do not believe in coincidences in criminal law. There is no such thing, according to me. Did someone see her on the people's court? Then I believe right at the number one court show in America, either that or Judge Judy right up there together duking it out. Was there coincidence? But speaking of coincidences, take a listen to our cut 22. On September 15th of 2000,

Shannon was treated at a South Carolina hospital for head injuries, and Smith was arrested for criminal domestic battery. I remember when she came home, there was a cut on her head, and her feet were cut up. And it was through, I think it was through some concrete where she had been, I don't know if she was dragged or what, but her feet were bloody. In a military court, Smith was convicted of domestic battery and drug possession and was dishonorably discharged from the Marines. When Shannon died, Smith was still serving time for both charges.

And that was not the first time he had run-ins with the law. In 1992, Smith pled no contest to attempted aggravated battery after a fight in Orlando. He was given two years probation. In 1997, he pleaded guilty to battery charges and served jail time. In 2009, Michelle Parker filed a restraining order against Dale Smith, which a judge later dissolved. I'd have known more about this guy before. He never stepped foot in the house, let alone see my sister. Now, 10 years after Shannon's death, the Collins are coming forward to shed light on the man police are linking to Michelle Parker's disappearance.

Smith has denied any involvement. To Bianca Prieto, former Orlando Sentinel criminal justice reporter, we've heard the name, of course, Michelle Parker. That's who we're trying to find. Shannon is an ex-wife of Dale's, and there is a history of domestic violence with this guy. I mean, anybody that would, you know, date somebody, hopefully they're hoping that he's a good person, he's a good man. But then you find out stuff like this, and it's just, it's scary.

To Yvonne Stewart, Michelle's mother, did Michelle have any idea what had happened to Shannon? She did not. When she met Dale, one of the first things he told her on the first night of their date was his wife was murdered when he was in Desert Storm. We never knew anything. We just believed that. We didn't know any different until Michelle went missing and people started digging around and then the truth came out. I've been I am in touch with Shannon's family. So they have a notebook that's probably two inches thick of all of the things that Shannon wrote personally and medical examiners and things like that when she was supposedly slipped and fell,

crushed her head in a shower. Dr. Jen Mann, marriage family therapist, Dr. Jen's show on Sirius XM and author. Dr. Jen, I know that in theory people can change, but I have argued to so many juries, when you don't know a horse, look at the track record. Help me out. Domestic violence. Does it ever get better? Look, it is unusual for it to get better. If it does, it generally involves intensive anger management, domestic violence classes, intensive therapy. And it doesn't sound like anything like that took place here. And typically, once someone is capable of that, once they have broken that boundary and become physically violent, that's just what they do. That is part of who they are.

That is something that they are oftentimes triggered and then unable to control. John W. Dill, high-profile lawyer out of Orlando, working with Michelle Parker's family. Do you believe Michelle Parker had been a victim of domestic violence at the hands of Dale Smith Jr.? I think without question, based on everything we've heard and also the attempt for a restraining order that was dissolved, you know, all this information comes out subsequent about Mr. Smith, but it certainly fits the pattern of the way he was treating her during the relationship

and what ultimately ended up ending the relationship. To Yvonne Stewart, this is Michelle's mother. What did she endure during the relationship? Oh, so many things happened. They went to Universal one night. They asked me to babysit the twins. And he came home and got his car, left the Hummer in the front yard, and Michelle wasn't in the Hummer. And neither was any of her belongings. everything from the Hummer was gone and I waited a few minutes for her to you know walk in the house and she didn't come and didn't come and then we got a phone call saying that he left her at Universal in the parking lot where she was hiding between

other vehicles because he kept speeding around the parking garage to try to find her, and she didn't want to get in the truck with him because she was scared. So my daughter Lauren went and picked her up, and we found out that on the way home, all of her belongings were thrown out on the side of the road about two and a half miles from our house. Her purse, and it had vomit in it. And he threw out all of her clothes that were like in the backseat and her camera, the baby's thing. And I told her then I said, you know what? You can't, you cannot make this relationship work. Nobody leaves a beautiful woman alone if they love her.

They don't do stuff like that. So that was pretty much the end of it right there. Is that why she got the temporary restraining order? That was another time when she was picking up the twins. He came out and he was angry at her for I don't know what reason. But he did that in his father's front yard. And that's when she called Orange County. What did he do in the front yard?

In the front yard, for Pete's sake. I think he broke her mirror and her window and was trying to get the baby seats out. I don't know. He's just, there were several instances where he was violent with her and, you know, it was the smartest thing she ever did was to move home and she put herself back in school. She was going to Oveda. She was going to work at my salon. She had a tanning business and she was still working part-time a couple nights a week, you know, at a local little country bar here in Sanford called The Barn. And she was doing everything she could. She was even looking to buy a house. I have her notes where she was showing me, look at this house I'm going to rent. It has a swimming pool. Austin will love it.

To you, Cheryl McCollum, weigh in. Nancy, again, if you look at the scene that we know, where her Hummer was left, the logo taken off the back, where the cell phone was found, this in no way, to me, says it's a stranger. Strangers don't take time that's not necessary. Stranger doesn't have to move her car and then take the logo off of it and then take her cell phone and throw it down the road. There's no connection to the two of them anyway if it's a stranger. So he doesn't have to have the phone. This desperately speaks of a domestic violence scene. Again, he doesn't call the police. He doesn't alert anybody she's missing.

He doesn't go out of his way to try to find her. What does he do when she's missing? From Florida, moves to Tennessee. And he does that because he knows she's not coming home. And let me remind everyone, the father of the twins, Dale Smith Jr., has not been formally charged with murder, kidnapping, or another offense as it relates to Michelle's disappearance. But what can we learn? As a matter of fact, let's hear from his attorney. Take a listen to our Crut This is WESH 2.

The attorney representing suspect Dale Smith just lashed out at investigators, insisting his client is cooperating and has given multiple statements. WESH 2's Dave McDaniel, live in Orlando, where Smith's attorney, Mark Nijame, just finished a press conference. Well, that's right. Mark Nijame did make a huge point of the fact that the police are saying a lot about the fact that Dale Smith has refused to polygraph. He came pointing out that polygraphs are not accepted in a lot of courtrooms. And a very desk pounding statement just moments ago, he said his client has been unfairly targeted. Why is it that not one single court in the United States of America accepts polygraphs as scientifically reliable and admissible. Why? Because they're not. And if they were so scientifically reliable, why does the Orlando

Police Department have a policy that when one of their officers is accused, that they do not let them take polygraphs? In fact, he says Dale Smith has given voluntary statements to the police three times. And he says Smith himself has called in Texas Equisurg to look for Michelle, not the work, he says, of a man guilty of anything. Now, that's what the defense attorney, Martin E. James, says. But the reality is to you, John W. Deal, renowned personal injury lawyer who's been working with Michelle's family. That's simply not the law as it relates to polygraphs. Polygraphs are allowed into evidence in civil cases where we saw, for instance, that O.J. Simpson made, what, a negative 40-something on his polygraph. And they are also admitted into criminal cases if stipulated before the polygraphs taken by both parties that it will be admitted.

I ordered people to have polygraphs before I would take a guilty or not guilty plea very often as part of my investigation. So, you know, that's just not right. And that's no excuse. When cops are looking at you and you want to clear the table and say, yes, look for the real perp. I'll take a polygraph. I'll give you my DNA. Search my home. Search my car.

Search my property. That did not happen here. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I can speak louder than words. Obviously, he goes on in subsequent statements, you know, when we were trying to talk to him, taking the Fifth Amendment, which, of course, is his right. But if his goal is to find the mother of his children, it would seem that he could take himself out of the equation by going ahead and going with a polygraph. Like you said, we're not even at the trial stage yet. We're just trying to find out the

truth. But that never happened. Yvonne Stewart is with me this is Michelle's mother is that true that Smith Jr. brought in a search team? I was told that his attorney suggested that he do that and the police department talked to me about OPD talked to me about itPD, talked to me about it, and said that they really didn't want them to help because they can destroy, like, evidence with, like, all the horses and things, and they didn't feel like it was a good idea, and so they told me to tell him no, and at that time, you have to understand, I was under extreme duress. And I was being led by detectives and police captains. And I just went along with whatever they told me to do.

I totally knew it, all of this. As it turns out, they said it was November. People would be hunting. If there was anything in the woods, they would be able to find maybe a body or a grave. And they just didn't want evidence tampered with. Did that search team ever actually come in, Yvonne? I honestly don't know. I think it was actually a chessboard move for him to look innocent.

The night I called him when I knew Michelle was missing right before we reported it to the police department, I called him at his mother's house and I told him Michelle didn't come home. Is she with you? He goes, no, I think she said she was going shopping or something. And then I said, well, she's not home. She's not at work. Something's happened. I think something's happened to her. I'm going to call the police. And he said, oh, well, I hope they find her. And I remember taking the phone away from my face and staring at the pay phone going, what?

It was just the weirdest response to me. and staring at the pay phone going, what? It was just the weirdest response to me. He never, ever, ever called me to see how I was doing. Anybody in the family, his family, nobody ever called. Nobody helped us look for her and his entire side of the family. They didn't put out the first flyer, the first poster, nothing. I mean, let me just understand that. Cheryl McCollum, help me process what Yvonne Stewart just said.

Yeah, it's a clue. It's a gigantic parade of clues. Anybody, when you look at somebody and you think of means, motive, and opportunity, could they have done this? And then you look at pre and post behavior so somebody that has been violent toward her but has three-year-old twins with her but the minute she goes missing i don't care what y'all were fighting about an hour ago you flip that switch and that becomes the mother of your children it never flipped for him, Nancy. You know, speaking of our friend Tim Miller at Texas EquiSearch, a crime victim himself, his daughter was murdered and we're longtime friends and associates. The founder of Texas EquiSearch, Tim Miller, said that his search and rescue group will not aid in the search for missing mom Michelle Parker.

This while police dive teams begin searching in a new pond near Oak Ridge Road. got back on a plane and headed to Texas after flying to Orlando on Thursday at the request of the person of interest, Dale Smith Jr.'s lawyer. So that search never happened. For those of you just joining us, Michelle, a gorgeous young mother of three, last seen after she dropped her three-year-old twins off with bio dad Dale Smith Jr. She was never seen again. And video released shortly after that drop off, somebody's in her Hummer, but it's not her. And it's going in the opposite direction that she would have gone to go to work. But speaking of the twins, we're getting tons of calls and emails about the twins. Take a listen to our cut 15, West 2's Bob Keeling.

Yesterday, the Department of Children and Family took emergency custody of Parker's three-year-old twins fathered by Smith. In this emergency court hearing, DCF lawyers argued that Smith's criminal and abusive past meant the children were in danger. The mother's not here, but the fact that she's not here is something that it's like the 800-pound gorilla. You can't ignore it. Smith's attorney, Mark Nijain, punched hole after hole in the state's custody petition. You just don't go and take children from a home with this most minimal and most vague accusations. Judge Thomas Turner sided with Smith, saying nothing in his recent past made him afraid for the children. I don't see any evidence that he presents any imminent risk of substantial harm to these children.

Parker's sister sobbed and stormed out of court. Are you satisfied with today's decision, Mr. Smith? Smith said nothing and also would not answer questions about Michelle Parker's disappearance. You know, if it was me and my husband was missing, I would be on the front of the courthouse steps screaming for justice. How could a judge, Yvonne Stewart, this is Michelle's mom, say there was no history of violence when the previous wife, I think, pled guilty to ag

assault on her. And then there's the TO, temporary restraining order, taken out by your daughter, Michelle, against him. It was an emergency hearing. They gave me the children custody the night before at 11 o'clock. I met with the DCF people. They came to my home. They brought the children. And then I immediately got a phone call today and I had to be in court the next very next morning at nine o'clock. The judge was a temporary judge.

He didn't have any background like we didn't have any. There wasn't enough time to do any background. And Mark, me, James made that happen because he's just an absolute, he'll do anything for money. That's the kind of guy he is. I know that that judge didn't have enough, he didn't have enough information. Guys, take a listen to Kelly Cook, Spectrum News 13. It's been nearly 16 months since Michelle Parker appeared on this episode of The People's Court with her ex-fiancee, Dale Smith II. The day that show aired, Michelle vanished. Despite numerous searches, there have been no signs of Parker,

a young mother of three whose picture is still posted all over Central Florida. Now a wrongful death lawsuit has been filed on behalf of Parker's mother, Yvonne Stewart. No doubt in their mind that Dale Smith is responsible for the death of Michelle Parker. There's no doubt in Yvonne's mind at all. And she didn't take this lightly. In the complaint filed on Thursday, Michelle Parker is listed as deceased, although her body was never found. Parker's mother is seeking damages in excess of $15,000, claiming Smith was negligent in her daughter's death. Michelle Parker's family believes and they've provided to us evidence and information and circumstances surrounding her disappearance that gave us the confidence to file this lawsuit today. Again let me emphasize

that Dale Smith Jr., the bio dad of the twins, has not been formally charged in the death or disappearance of Michelle Parker. But listen to Michelle Parker. Our friends at WFTV News Channel 9. I felt somebody grab me and yank me around. As he grabbed and turned around, he was holding on to me, screaming at me, pointing back up to the stage, going, get on that back-uping stage. that's what tv viewers across the country heard michelle parker say about her ex-fiance dale smith just hours before she disappeared after dropping off their twins at

his home he was the last known person to see her alive orlando police have called him their prime suspect and now parker's mother has filed a wrongful death lawsuit accusing him of causing her death. Her lawyers say they have their own strong evidence against him. There's some text messages and just the whole the timing of the disappearance with the text messages and the relationship. Orlando attorney John Morgan does not expect to be able to access whatever evidence police might have against Smith, and he's not fazed by the possibility that Smith could take the fifth in a civil case to prevent incriminating himself in any future criminal case.

It's been my experience and my view that most guilty people take the fifth. You know, John Gotti took the fifth. To Yvonne Stewart, this is Michelle's mother. What, if anything, has Smith Jr. told you about what happened? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothing. Did you ask him?

He can't look me in the eyes. I saw him in the courtroom that morning. And my only concern was that I would be able to stay in the twins life. And I hugged him and I asked him, I did that on purpose because I said, I didn't do this. I didn't do this. This was all DCF. All I could care about at that point was making sure that I would be part of their life and that he wouldn't shut me out. But he did.

So, you know, that's how that goes. What do you mean he shut you out? Well, he stopped letting me have any visitation. And then he started having me sign documents saying that I couldn't call my Trey and then he stopped letting me see them for like a day or overnight I could see him for maybe two hours here and there and then he moved away and he never even told me he was moving he just left because you know why? Florida doesn't have grandparent right laws, which I so desperately tried to change. And that failed also. Yvonne, where are the twins now? They live with their dad in the same place that she dropped them off that day.

They live here in Orlando. Do you ever see them? No, not allowed. Not allowed. I think that a few more years will go by. They'll be 18 and then I can legally,

I can legally just, you know, walk up to them and talk to them at that point. And he can't do anything about it because they'll be of age. And, you know walk up to them and talk to them at that point and he he can't do anything about it because they'll be of age and um you know we we did pass the grandparent right law in florida john dill was there with me and it did finally pass second year and we took it to court and it got dismissed without me even getting to say one word and then the appellate court upheld it. So that was a big fail, but boy, I tried. I can live with that.

And you're still trying. John Deal, what's the status in the case of the search for Michelle Parker? Well, on the civil side, we ran into the problems that he did take the Fifth Amendment. Of course, there's no additional evidence that we've been able to get because it's still an open investigation. So the civil lawsuit are hoping to get him to talk. Really, the plan was always not to get money from him. The plan was always to find out what happened and to at least let's start the investigation, maybe get some more tips going forward.

That's kind of how it stands right now. There's still an open investigation. Michelle is still important to a lot of people. I've heard from folks here in town after hearing the podcast that they went to school with her or knew her, and they're still praying for her. So it's still out there. The family's not forgotten. The people who love her have not forgotten.

And we haven't forgotten. We're going to continue to work to try to get answers. Yvonne Stewart, what do you think happened? John, am I allowed to be honest, or do I have to cover my butt? I think you can go ahead and be honest is what you know, just to be safe. Okay. I think when she got to his condo that day to drop off the children, he knew that she was going to trade in the Hummer, and that would be his last thumb on her, that he would have no more control. And then, of course, an hour earlier, she said on national TV that their relationship was poison. And all of the things that you just played earlier that were pre-recorded on that people's court.

And I think he lost it. And I think he killed her right then and, on the spot. As of today, there are no official charges in the disappearance or death of Michelle Parker. Yvonne, what can you tell me about her older son? Austin is so quiet now. It has changed his whole demeanor. he he lost his mother his brother his sister his grandma because he had to move away and his uncles and my husband his his pop-pop and his whole life changed and he moved to Pittsburgh and grew up there and And he came and visited every year, sometimes twice a year. And he finally came out on Facebook. I think it was year five after her disappearance. And he

wrote an astounding, heartfelt paragraph about how much he missed his mom. And it was the first time that he had ever related to anybody. He talked to me about it, and he would ask me questions from time to time, and I would tell him straight up, honest, what I think was going to happen. And the main thing that I wanted him to know was that she would never, ever, ever have just disappeared. And he told me when he lived with Dale that Dale would lock him out of the house and he could hear them fighting, and he would be banging on the door and crying, trying to get in for his mother. And he's traumatized. I mean, absolutely something that no child should have to ever live with.

And I know he's not the only child that's ever had to lose their mother. Horrible, horrible. He's bouncing back now. He's been with us for about a year. He's learning how to, you know, fix things like his four-wheeler. He's building an airboat. He's got really good friends. He's got a good head on his shoulder. His dad did a great job raising him. He's never been in trouble. There's no, no, I never seen him like act out in any way. And he graduated from high school. So he's, he's doing very well. Guys, take a listen to our friends at NBC. A spokesman for the Orlando Police Department says the lead suspect in the case is still Dale

Smith, the ex-fiancee, although no charges have been filed and Smith denies any involvement in Parker's disappearance. Police say currently there are no updates in the case, but also say the investigation is still active and that the department will continue to support the family in search efforts in hopes of locating Michelle. But I know it's something that she loved. Lauren Erickson is Parker's sister and keeps a room filled with her sister's belongings. She'll never, you know, get to get dressed up and go out and be with her friends and her family,

which she loved to do. And it just, nothing, nothing will ever make it right. Nothing will ever make it easier. And for the family, the hardest part of all is having to explain the disappearance to Parker's children. Last to Yvonne Stewart, Michelle's mother. What is your most vivid memory of Michelle? Her giggle.

And when she would get, like, she liked to play little practical jokes on people, and was just so so fun and when she got tickled she would literally like tears would come out of her eyes and she would take her hands and she would wipe them away and she would just gut level laugh she was just and she was just such a gift giving person she gave people presents all the time she made sure that everybody you you know, had little things that they liked. She went out of her way to be a good friend to everybody that was her really good friend. The investigation into the disappearance of Michelle, according to police, is ongoing. If you have information, 800-423-8477. Repeat, 800-423-8477. Let Michelle's children finally know the truth.

Know where is mommy. Nancy Grace, Killers Amongst Us, signing off. Goodbye, friend.