Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Killers Amongst Us: (Part 2) Gorgeous Queens jogger Karina Vetrano murdered the one day dad stays behind.

Episode Date: March 24, 2020

The father of murdered New York jogger Karina Vetrano says he lives every day seeking justice for his daughter. Today, Phil Vetrano shares with Nancy Grace emotional details of the day of his daughter’s death and how a memorial he creates for her helps him cope. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. Welcome back to Killers Amongst Us, a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. What happened to Karina Vetrano? Absolutely stunning. The jogger who goes for a jog this one day without her dad, firefighter Phil Vetrano, and tragedy befalls her. Nancy Grace, killers amongst us.

Right now, more questions than answers. Her dad, a sense of foreboding coming over him, literally thinks he hears Karina calling out for dad, daddy, goes looking for her. And of all the cops, the helicopters, the dogs, it's her dad, Phil Vetrano, that finds Karina's body. Joining me right now, Karina's father, Phil Vetrano. Also with me, Tony DiStefano, reporter with Newsday. Phil, you were just describing how you want to explain what you found. And, you know, at first, I, Jackie and I called Tony DiStefano with Newsday and said, listen, we're going to have you describe the condition of Karina's body because

I don't want to put Phil through that. And then he'll join us. We told Phil and he said, no, I want to be there. I want to hear this. Then you went on to tell me something incredible, Phil, that you actually go to this location every day. You know, it's really moving me to tears because as I've told you in the past, to this day, I have not gone back to where my fiance was murdered. I don't even know if I could find it now, out in the middle of nowhere. But you go every day. Phil Vetrano, explain that to me. Well, I built a memorial for my daughter.

I built it out of cobblestone and bluestone. Everything that I built it out of was found on the trail that she ran. I dug it up out of the ground myself and we made a memorial and I planted sunflowers and rose bushes and daffodils and butterfly bushes. And I go there and I have bird feeders and I sit there and I listen to nature and I watch the cardinals and the birds and I feel at peace. And if you would ask me, how could that be? Maybe because that's the only place that I feel like I have any control. You know, I'm just sitting there and I'm communicating with my daughter. I'm communicating with Karina.

And that is the place where I get thoughts in my head to do things. I'm not going to say messages from Karina, but they kind of are messages from Karina. And I feel obligated to visit there every single day. You know, you are making me feel like a big loser. Because I've never read the trial transcript. I've never read the appeal. I did not want to hear about the sentencing, nothing after I testified because it would literally just tear me in two.

And you're so brave. I just know. No, everybody deals with tragedy in their own way. Nobody's right and nobody's wrong. You know, you deal with a tragic situation the way your body will let you survive. And that's how you have to deal with it. And that's how I deal with it.

Everybody deals with it differently. There is no right and there is no wrong. You know, with me is, of course, Phil Vetrano, and also with me, reporter from Newsday, Tony DiStefano. Tony, how did you first become involved in Karina's disappearance? Well, it was the night of the murder. It was August 2nd, and we started to get reports from the police that there had been somebody found dead in Spring Creek Park. And this was late. This was evolving late. And, of course, I got a call from the news desk, and they asked me to find out what I could.

So I called one of my sources in the police department, the then spokesman, Steve Davis, and he gave me a basic rundown because at that point we didn't know very much. We knew Karina's name, of course, because the family had been notified, and we knew where, but there wasn't much because the investigation was in the very early stages, and this is late August 2nd of 2016. That's how I first became aware of it, and I did file some material that night, and I did make it into the paper, but these were short, relatively short, perfunctory stories.

The next day, it was sort of off to the races, and all the papers were, and media outlets were jumping on the story, and descending on Howard Beach. I didn't, because I had other things I had to deal with at police headquarters. And we started to put the story together. And we found out, of course, it was very disturbing about a young woman jogging close to her home and meeting her demise so close to her home and her family. And that's how I got into it, and I didn't lose, I didn't shake the case since that time,

since August 2nd of 2016. And I had to nail down the police investigation end, and that's where I got deeply involved in this. This is where I got to know the Vetrano family, Phil and Kathy, and all the rest of the family. And that's how I got into it. And it's one of those things you just stay with. to phil vitrano i'm just taking in what you've told me and it's amazing even just then phil and tony de stefano with newsday was talking and he said the word murder and as we're talking i am looking right at a picture of karina, looking right at it right now.

And to hear the word murder in the magnitude of what had happened. Because from the minute it happened, we were involved. I was involved with the police investigation. I was involved with the familiar DNA searching. It never went away. So we were always involved with something to do with the case. And now I have, my mind has shifted. It has gone from a place of total rage and anger to peace, not peace, peace.

Not forgiveness for the murderer that killed my daughter, but I am no longer angry at the world. And I'm accepting what had happened as fate. I have become very spiritual since, as Camila was. And maybe I'm fooling myself, or maybe I'm just protecting my mind from exploding, but I believe it was kismet. I believe that there is a time and a place that everyone is going to go.

And no matter what you do, you're not going to alter that. So by me accepting that, yeah, this is what was going to happen from the minute she was conceived, it protects me. It helps me. So that's how I deal with that. Phil tells us that he called Karina multiple times and didn't get an answer. Then, he goes looking for her. Listen to our friend

at ABC, Tim Fleish. Heart-wrenching. Absolutely heart-wrenching. The testimony of this father as he describes finding his daughter's body. After calling three times, he went to Spring Creek Park to search for her. He called a friend in the NYPD who then sent officers to search. After finding her cell phone, they honed in on an area thick with weeds and cattails. Fighting back tears, Phil Vetrano showed the jury how he found a matted down area off the trail. She was there. I found her.

He described how she was on her stomach, her right arm under her, her left arm next to her. Her legs were in a running position. Her head tilted back to the side. Sobbing, he said, I let out a sound like I've never heard before, a wail. I screamed, my baby, my baby. I grabbed her and pulled her up to me. His wife, Kathy, holding a crucifix, along with other family members, crying in the gallery. He told the jury, I knew she was dead.

Police pulled him from the crime scene as he told them he had to take her home. He went to tell his wife, I didn't have to say a thing, he said. She knew. Shown heart-wrenching pictures of his daughter. Filvatrono sobbed and said, this is how he found his daughter. Filvatrono, that moment that you found Karina, I know is in your mind forever. You are part of law enforcement. What was the condition of Corita's body when you discovered her?

You know, what I remember and what was actually there are two different things. You know, my mind just turned to mush at that instant. After the scream and after I picked her up, I saw her, but I saw that she was beaten I saw her neck was all swollen you know being a fireman I was an EMT so

I've seen dead bodies before and I picked her up and her back was cool and her chest was a little warm because it was on the ground. It was a warm day. And from that moment, my mind went blank. I don't know how I got out of the weeds. I don't know if I was dragged out. I don't know if I walked out. I don't know if they pulled me off of her. I don't know.

I don't remember any of that. I don't remember any of that. I don't remember any of that. You know, like, uh, the condition of her clothing. Uh, I, my mind went blank from that moment. I don't know how I got on the trail from when I had her to 30 feet. It complete blank to this day. Don't know what happened, but I, the way I describe it is the way I saw it. And I didn't see the extent of the damages to her face, to her teeth, to, you know, but I did see her neck was swollen and I knew. I knew she was dead. I mean, I'm a first responder. My first thought was, okay, CPR. But then you realize almost immediately that, no, no, she's gone.

She's just gone. Karina Vetrano, the beautiful jogger, was beaten so hard by her attacker, her teeth actually broke. And I'm thinking of my children right now. They've already had one set of braces and they're going to have another set of braces. And I remember having braces as a little girl, all three of us did. It cost my family so much, they actually had a coupon book. Like, you used to have car payments, and every month they would pay for our teeth getting straightened. And I'm looking at her gorgeous, perfect smile. We learned that her teeth were actually broken.

She was beaten so badly. We know that she clawed at her attacker's face as he beat her over and over, knocking her unconscious, strangling her. To Tony DiStefano, reporter with Newsday, what do we know about the injuries to Karina Vetrano? Well, they were, as you just even described, severe. Her face was heavily bruised and bashed. She had the cracked front tooth.

She had extensive internal injuries to her private areas. And there were abrasions and cuts, actually. They were quite deep within, and I was a little surprised when I saw some of the photos at trial as to how far in they were. I didn't get a sense initially how badly she had been injured. She had abrasions on her arms and the upper neck area, and it was just a terrible thing to see. Just before she went out on her jog, you know, you have this pretty Italian-American girl, dark hair, looking at you, taking a selfie of herself, you know, fine face and complexion. And then you look at those pictures and you say, boy, this was some brutal attack. This was not just a glancing blow.

This was really really hard beating. I mean, that's not the only way to put it. I mean, it was like she went through 10 rounds with somebody. With me now, the medical examiner for the state of Florida, Dr. Tim Gallagher, a renowned medical examiner. Dr. Gallagher, thank you for spending time with us. You know, I recall many times that Phil Vetrano has stated that his daughter Karina's smile was, quote, perfect. He said that many, many times, perfect. And when I look at photos of Karina, he's right. I don't know if her teeth were naturally that way but just beautiful white bright white teeth and perfect and then to think that her teeth were broken the beating was so severe how much force would it take to actually punch somebody's teeth out of their mouth or crack their teeth?

Well, you know, like you said before, Nancy, it's difficult to say what her, if her teeth were natural or if they weren't, you know, I have to believe that they were, and then what type of genetics she has and what type of nutrition she was exposed to. But it is difficult to say exactly how much force it would take. But we do know that the average human fist can generate about 150 pounds of force in a punching situation. So I would estimate that the impact she took to her face was probably at least 150 pounds

if not more you know I would like to make myself feel better and imagine that Karina Vetrano blacked out and had no idea what was being done to her but the reality is I know that's not true because she fought so fiercely. She fought back, which tells me that she was conscious during a lot of this attack on her. I would have to agree as evidenced by the grasp that she had grasped in her hand, you know, when her body was found. So I believe that to be true as well, Nancy. Dr. Gallagher, you've seen literally thousands of autopsies, but if the blows to her face were so severe, it cracked her teeth. Can you imagine what it did to the skin of her face and her lips and her nose?

I mean, her face must have been just mush by the time she was found. Hopefully it was able to be recognized. A lot of the times the swelling and the bruising is so severe that even the victim's parents and siblings are unable to identify them visually. With me, Phil Vetrano and Tony DiStefano, reporter with Newsday. Take a listen to this. And Boyce tells me what they found made even a hardened detective turn away. Give me a sense for the injuries Karina suffered. Facial injuries.

She also had bruising on her body. We believe from being dragged through those weeds. Rough area. So that's what we believe, where that bruising on the body came from. And when you found her, she was still grasping to the weeds? She had the weeds, stems of the weeds in her hands. What does that tell you? She fought

not to go into those weeds. Contrary to several reports, Chief Boyce now confirms to me there was no DNA evidence found at the scene to show that the would-be rapist completed his sexual assault. Karina's dad took me to that jogging trail in Howard Beach where police found his beautiful daughter. I don't know if this person was waiting for her. I don't know if this person was following her. I don't know if this person knew her routine, drove to the other end, and met her head on. You are hearing our friends at Crime Watch daily. What we know, whether the perp was waiting for her or happened to see her, I viewed video of her just before the attack, and I can see her running along. I guess this is from somebody's home surveillance video,

and she has her earbuds in her ear, so on this trail, she would not have heard anyone anyone approaching her. What more can we learn from the scene? Phil Vetrano, according to reports, Karina was still grasping at the grasp. Why? Explain that. Well, my theory, and I relived it many, many times. I've run the trail from my house to get the timeline. So I know exactly what time she got down there, what time she was attacked, what time he left the weeds to go on the Bell Parkway. And she was attacked. Her initial attack, I believe, was 110 feet from where the body was found. And I believe this because that's where her sneaker was found. I think he was waiting for her. The Tuesday before, just a week before, she ran that trail by herself. Now, I was on vacation. I was unaware of this. I didn't think she ever ran by herself.

So I believe he saw her. He ran after her. She ran to get away. She fell down, got the abrasions on her knees. Her sneaker came off, and he dragged her down the trail into the pud where she was found because she had the weeds in her hand. She was trying to stop him to grab onto something to save herself. So that's my theory, and I relived it many times. Karina's body was found off the jogging path. Her running pants pulled down. She had been assaulted, strangled to death in this Howard Beach area. Now, police were convinced at the time she had put up a vicious fight. She fought for her life. Tony DiStefano, Reporter Newsday, why were they convinced she fought so hard?

Well, there were a couple of things. One was, of course, the vegetation in her grasp, in her hands, indicating she fought to prevent the killer from pushing her or taking her into the weeds. under her fingernails, which indicated a struggle, perhaps some scratching. And, you know, the condition of the body where she suffered severe facial trauma and other injuries indicated that there was a fight. And that's all there is to it. I mean, she wasn't like a passive victim here. She was putting up a struggle, and I think she put it up to the very last minute. No, my daughter was a fighter.

She put up a fight. I'm thinking about her, and isn't it true, when she was a little girl, did she have to have surgery, as I recall, maybe on her legs as a child? Is that true, Phil? She had elective surgery. She had surgery done. It's called compartment syndrome. She was so intent on running, but she couldn't train because she would get shin splints. And after every diagnosis and injections and x-rays, we came up with a diagnosis of compartment syndrome. And I actually got in touch with a doctor in Michigan who specializes in compartment syndrome. And what they do is they cut the fascia, the white tissue that surrounds the muscle of your body. You would call it grizzle.

So when the muscle expands, it has more room to expand. And she had that done on both legs just to enable her so she can train and compete. Yes. And she did compete, did she not? She competed all throughout high school. She ran for Manhattan College for a little bit, but she still couldn't train. Even after the surgery, she couldn't train. Maybe it was too soon, but later

on, she was able to run. Years later, I guess after everything healed, she was able to run, but never at the ability that she once was, once had. You know, the location of Karina's body is crucial, and it's even more crucial that that crime scene be processed appropriately. Take a listen to our friends at Crime Watch Daily. She's found here a lot of thick weeds, very thick, six to eight feet tall. So we believe this puddle right here is important because her socks were wet when the body was found. The only way they could have gotten wet is through this puddle, we believe. So she was dragged off this path. Her property, her earbuds, they're thrown over here, which is just north of this path.

The body is dragged into here. Her cell phone is thrown in that direction. And her own sneaker is thrown over here. Pretty good run. Pretty good throw. It's 132 feet. What does this tell you? It tells us that at some point she's dragged off the path. Karina puts up a bow. She's beaten. She does. She's beaten pretty severely. At some point, he drags her in there. There's no way anybody's going to find her in here. The tiny, petite Karina Vetrano suffering multiple abrasions, contusions, which are bruises, cuts, injuries, sexual in nature. But thankfully, Phil Vetrano, her dad, who found her body,

seemingly can't remember much of this. And, you know, Phil, I always uh poo-pooed people that said that they blacked out or they blocked things the truth is I can't remember I can remember hardly a thing for a huge chunk of time following my fiance's murder do you ever try to remember it because for the longest time whenever I would try to remember or I would think about Keith, I would get a splitting headache. And I was very young. Splitting. Until I finally trained myself, the moment I would start thinking about it, I'd stop. I'd leave. I'd go to a different place. I'd do anything just to stop thinking about it, to avoid the pain of that headache. And obviously it was, you know, psychologically triggered. But have you tried to remember what you saw that day? Every day, every day, my baby deserves for me to know, to understand, and, you know, try to experience what she experienced.

She deserves the pain that I feel. And I don't know how to explain that, but that's what I feel. She deserves for me to recognize it and her pain, not to hide it. Agree. One vision I have, a mental vision I have so often of Keith, after being shot five times in the neck, the face, the back. He amazingly was still alive. By the time they got an ambulance out to that rural site where he was working on a construction crew, all the way to a small town hospital, still alive. And I have recurring to this day visions of him on a gurney at a hospital to which I've never been. The things that go through your mind, I have flashes of him being shot about what happened. I wasn't there and I did not hear the evidence.

But it comes to me even to this day quite often and and i i hear what you're saying i do not turn away from it because i guess your words are right he deserves for someone to know for someone to care well someone who loved him which is you. So true. Yes. So true. We know that Karina suffered extensive bruising and scraping to the neck and chin, indicating her killer's hands totally enveloped, surrounded her throat. The ultimate COD, cause of death, is strangulation, not a beating. Strangulation. And I'm thinking about what she went through and her father, Phil, finding her still clutching at the grass with both hands as if she's struggling to get away, to even crawl away from her killer.

Well, Nancy, if I may interject. Please do. Crawl away from her killer. Well, Nancy, if I may interject. Please do. You know, one consolation is that I truly believe Karina never thought she was going to die. She didn't think that because she wasn't shot and she wasn't in an ambulance going to the hospital where you have the opportunity to think, well, what's going to happen to me? She was fighting the entire time. And she never thought she was going to die. And because her airway was cut off and she did pass out and she was murdered while she was unconscious, that is a great consolation to me.

Because she never thought she was going to die. I know that. You know, I can't explain it, but it's a consolation to me, too, that I believe Keith had blacked out or was unconscious at the time he finally passed away. I like to think he never knew what happened. That one moment he was with us, and the next moment he had no understanding of what had happened. Take a listen to what Phil says to our friends at Crime Watch Daily.

You found your daughter. I did. With the help of the PD. As a parent, I have a hard time even getting my arms around that. I think as a parent, you would rather you find your child than someone else. It's the last act of protection you can give your child. To Tony DiStefano, reporter with Newsday, you have been to the scene. What are your recollections? Well, of course, this is sometime after the murder.

It's a place that actually, as Phil described, is peaceful. There have been sunflower seeds, various kinds of plants, butterflies, which happens to be Karina's favorite kind of insect, if you want to call it that. There are cats, as Phil described them. And it's a quiet setting, punctuated only by the sound occasionally of overhead airplanes, airliners landing or taking off from JFK. But it's sunny. It's a sunny spot. It's not shaded by a great many trees. And it's a place where you could go and you could just think about things and think about what had happened and what the possibilities for life could have been.

You feel sad sometimes. I've been there a number of times. In fact, I was there on a birthday quite by chance and happened to run into Phil and Kathy and the daughter, Tana. And it's, you know, to see what they did there with the memorial and with the stones and the yewed kind of memorial that they put together, you know, it was very touching. But it's also, you know, sad. With me, Phil Vetrano and Tony DiStefano, reporter with Newsday. Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.