Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Killers Amongst Us: Petite genius disappears before Sunday wedding. What happened to Annie Le? (episode 3)

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

Researcher Annie Le walks from Sterling Hall to another campus building at 10 Amistad Street, That's where her research laboratory is located. She is caught on video entering the building. There is a fire alarm that day, but Annie is not seen on video again. The search begins but is this a missing person case or a murder case? Investigators are following every lead they can find. The difference though between the two investigations could hinder its progress, and does this mean valuable clues are lost? Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. Welcome back to Killers Amongst Us, a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. Every day on our way to the grocery store, out jogging to pick up your children from school, en route to work, and back on the elevator? Do we ever take time to look around? I try not to, because I know the statistics that a large percentage of people around me

are convicted felons, they're on probation, they're on parole, or waiting to commit their very first crime crime or at least first time they get caught every day killers amongst us it is a very grim reality grim but true i'm nancy grace thanks for being with us here at KAU Killers. Amongst us, Annie Lay. Beautiful, brilliant, missing. What clues, if any, are left behind? Take a listen to our friend Sharon Alfonsi at ABC. Lee was last seen Tuesday at 10 in the morning.

A surveillance camera captured this picture of her entering the Yale lab where she worked. But so far, there are no pictures of Lee leaving. She left her pocketbook, her cell phone, everything in the lab. Dogs searched the building, and investigators sorted through dumpsters. Lee's picture was posted along Connecticut's highways. Late Friday, investigators went through the lab building again, this time with blueprints in hand. Sources say they were focusing on the basement area looking for clues. Whatever it is I just hope that she's found safely and brought home. And investigators are reviewing the surveillance tapes of more than 70 cameras in the area. They're going

through each of those frame by frame. But so far, one university official says there's been no signs of foul play. We've gone over and over. Was it cold feet? No one in her family, none of her friends heard from her. Nothing. The fiancee distraught just days before their wedding. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of it all, Daryl Cohen, former felony prosecutor now defense attorney named partner with cohen cooper estep and allen at ccealaw.com we're now psychiatrists joining me out of the atlanta jurisdiction dr angela arnold catch this not only a psychiatrist, an MD, but with a master's in cell and molecular biology. Wow. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Former police lieutenant in Haven Police Department, director of the Center

for Advanced Policing at University of New Haven's Forensic Science Department, who worked this case, Lisa Daddio joining us. Death investigator, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. You can see him starring on Poisonous Liaisons on True Crime Network, Joseph Scott Morgan. But first, to investigative reporter with Newsday. You can find him on Twitter at C-H-A-Y-E-S Chase Matthew. Matthew, thank you for being with us. First of all, cell phone and purse left behind. That tells me a lot. But hey, Matthew, take a listen to our friends at ABC. But on the Yale campus, as the days pass, concern deepens.

I just want her to be okay. If she was taking in the middle of the day, we could be too. Now a professor who Annie was supposed to actually attend a class about the time that she went missing, canceled that class and that professor was questioned. But we are told by law enforcement sources that that professor had a rock solid alibi and is not considered a suspect. Huh. Another quote, rock solid alibi. Matthew Chase, again with us, Newsday. You can find him at Twitter at Chase Matthew.

Matthew, let's talk about the fact that the professor canceled the class and that's where she was supposed to be. Who is this professor? Why was he deemed to have a rock solid alibi just like the fiance? So early on, I believe it was Friday, we had heard that he had been there had been a professor who had been questioned. But it came some some outlets went with that story. We did not because we had heard that he did have this alibi um and you know it just just like other things in this case it was a coincidence there was the smoke alarm uh it just coincidentally went off uh her wedding

day was a couple of days away um you know there's this idea that maybe she's a one runaway bride but both of those you know wind up just not panning out not panning out at the get-go you know why is it daryl cohen that's so often when somebody is a suspect police say there are no suspects nancy it's a magician you don't see what I'm looking for because I tell you I am not. Therefore, there's no suspects. Therefore, the suspect or suspect hopefully let their guard down just a little bit, tell you one little piece of information that they might not have otherwise told you had their guard been up. Simple.

Been there forever. It'll stay there forever. Joseph Scott Morgan, you certainly know your way around an investigation. The minute cops say to me, they're not a suspect, I start looking at them. Why are they even bringing them up? Yeah, exactly. Why, you know, why do they bring them up? Because I can tell you, even though the authorities are going to say that they are not a suspect, keep in mind, all of the criminal investigation

division that is involved, directly involved in the case, are still at least peripherally going to keep their eyes on this person. Because for one thing, when you make a public statement like that, you can allow individuals to let their guard down. And then they start doing stupid stuff. And generally, it's the stupid stuff that gets criminals caught. In this particular case, they would say that. Oh, man, Joe Scott, you're so right.

Does anybody beside me remember when Lacey Peterson went missing and somebody wisely stuck a tracker on husband Scott Peterson's car, and he kept going over and over and over to the San Francisco Bay, thinking he was all alone and unseen, and stopping, getting out of the car and looking out on the bay, all the time knowing his wife and unborn baby were at the bottom of the bay, weighted down by cement blocks, just hoping against hope they wouldn't pop up. Guess what? They did. Took a minute, but they did. That's the kind of behavior I'm talking about. What is it, Dr. Angela Arnold? Why do criminals always, not always, but a sense of guilt and some sort of remorse, possibly. And also, I believe that they're going back because they want to make sure that nothing has floated up. I'm not going to say that. I was going to say they're in an altered state of mind when they do this.

I think they know exactly what they're doing. I think that they're going back to make sure that they're not going to get caught. See if any evidence has turned up. Lisa Daddio with me who works the case of missing brainiac. Oh, she's so pretty. Annie Lay. Lisa, if you tell me you're the foreign police lieutenant in the Haven Police Department, if you tell me the professor didn't have some kind of crush on Annie Lay and he had an airtight alibi and the fiance has an airtight alibi, I'll believe it. Yes or no? Yes. Believe it or not.

So, I mean, a lot of the things and everyone kind of brought it up a little bit that was problematic in this case. Everybody was running some different angle and everybody wanted to kind of be the first to break the case. And we had lots of leaks in the investigation because we were dealing with a multitude of agencies working together. So things that we would never typically had put out regarding the investigation were getting put out. Literally almost every movie made was being announced throughout the media. And there were hundreds and hundreds of reporters camped out from the considered a person of interest would never have been out in the media. Everything in this case kept getting magnified. So it was really causing some issues for us.

Her professor that had canceled the class, her fiance, Jonathan, were knocked out of being suspects like immediately. That's how tight their alibis were. Okay. So coming from you, Lisa Daddio, former police Lieutenant right there in the jurisdiction who worked this case, I believe it. So I've got to take away, I've got to rule out my two first persons of interest. And that would be the fiance who statistically you look at and the professor who suddenly canceled his class. I'm sure investigators thought, wow, he's so distraught.

He's canceling his class. Why is he so distraught? But he's ruled out. He's got an alibi. It's not him. Where is Annie Lay? Joseph Scott Morgan, you just heard Lisa Daddio state everybody wanted to crack the case first. You know what that tells me? That tells me contaminated crime scene. Explain. Yeah, everybody, when you involve yourself, I hate the word first when it comes to an investigation, because when you're moving forward on an investigation, if everybody's sitting on the balls of their feet, ready to pounce on everything, that means that you run the risk of not being able

to take your time and methodically work through it. And listen, this is a passion-driven event. And I'm talking about from the perspective of her family and friends. People want to find this young woman. They desperately want to find her because they love her. They care about her. They're worried. But while you're searching, you're searching and people with all the good intentions in the world can dig through things that can move things. They can touch things that can trample things and grind it into the ground. And evidence, particularly in the realm in which we live today, is so very tiny. It's so very fragile. The slightest thing for us as investigators and professionals like Lisa, you know, it can actually turn the tide of the case in one millisecond. But if you have somebody

that puts their foot in the wrong place or picks something up or destroys it it's gone it's gone forever you're actually giving me a chill because you know the other day i guess it was who was it john david or lucy they were going out the door and i saw long a long blonde hair on the back of their fleece. And I, you know, pulled it off and dropped it. One hair, one hair proved that I had been in contact with that fleece. Think back to the Wayne Williams case in Atlanta. Multiple young boys and men go missing. They're dead.

A fiber. A fiber. And this was brand new technology at that time. It had never been used in the United States before. The guy who introduced it at trial helped hire me. Brilliant, brilliant appellant lawyer. One fiber was the first one found under a microscope. They're like, what is this? Guess what it was? Carpet fiber out of the trunk of Wayne Williams' car. Then they started looking for more fiber, found fiber exactly matching the carpet in Wayne Williams' home. And it was a unique carpet. It wasn't made anymore. I want to think it was something like orange shag. It was.

Just let's say so. Oh, my goodness. I can't believe I remember that. And you don't find orange shag just everywhere. No. They had a specific run of that carpet. They have a specific run of that carpet that was unique. And it was it was a very small run when they were manufacturing. But one way and I'll shut my mouth after this, but I have to. Please don't. Please do not. And I very rarely say that to anybody.

And relative to this, because as new as that technology was back then, back in the early 80s and with Wayne Williams, and of years ago, where he actually was able to look forward in time, and he understood logically his statement in that every contact leaves a trace, so that no matter who you are, you're going to leave something of yourself behind. And that applies not just to bad guys, but that applies to good actors. Can I just make one thing clear, Joe Scott? I hate to interrupt you quoting an old dead guy who happened to be brilliant, I might say. He is. And you're absolutely correct.

I just want to clear one thing up because Jackie's really giving me the hairy eyeball. I was still in undergrad when all that was happening. And I only know about it because I came to the office and read all the appellate files. I just want to be clear about that timing. Okay, now that we've got that out of the way, here's another thing. Let's analyze this. Oh, Daryl Cohen.

You know who I was talking to on the phone last night? The head of indictments that taught me how to go through a file as thick or thin as it may be, pick out the felonies and correctly drop an indictment and take it to a grand jury. Who says, by the way, that you have not called him as I instructed you to do a month ago. That said, I'm thinking about the Wayne Williams case. I'm thinking about fiber. I'm thinking about hair. I'm thinking about what Lisa Daddio said. Everybody wanted to crack the case first, and they were all rushing through the building.

So many odd circumstances converging to make the perfect storm, and somewhere in that storm Annie Lagos missing But another thing about the cell phone And the purse being left behind Hold on Daryl Before I get your conclusion Lisa Daddio You worked the case

Where were her cell and purse? So Annie's cell phone and purse Were found in her actual office that was not housed in 10 Amistad, which is her research lab. She was part of the medical building that was a couple blocks away. And being a research student and, you know, kind of working underneath a full professor at the university, her research professor, she left her items there and just had her lab notebook with her, her key card to get in. And we know this, obviously, because we can see her walking in to 10 Amistad holding her lab book and pretty much nothing else. And then just,

you know, going about her day as she normally would prior to leaving. And, you know, I would do the same thing, Daryl, at our office in the district attorney's office. It's a huge office. It was in the old courthouse. So you were mixed in with floors of courtrooms, the clerk's office, probate and the district attorney's office which how it was housed on three and then four floors being indictments and the elected da mr slayton a few other things and there were a whole level where the appellate lawyers and others were then a whole nother level of the trial lawyers lawyers. I would wander around wherever I had to go with nothing but my key to my office and my, I usually carry my ID, but not always. So I can see her rushing from one building into Amistad with nothing but a lab book and a key card, leaving her cell phone and her purse at her

station in her main building. This is telling me all over again, this is not a runaway bride. What's she going to use, her key card to buy food at McDonald's in Kroger? No, not a runaway, not the fiance, not the professor. And now fear reigns across New Haven. Take a listen to our Cut 18. This is Randall Pinkston with CBS. Four days after Lee's disappearance, the university's police chief sought to reassure the Yale community.

We have many physical security to help us with this investigation, to include over 70 cameras. The concern reaches far beyond the New Haven campus. Parents are like calling in, like checking, you know, are you safe? Today, authorities continue to work in the laboratory where Annie Lee was last seen. Authorities reportedly have discovered bloody clothing in the ceiling of the building.

Published reports say the clothing is not Lee's. Investigators are also pouring through garbage at a Hartford Waste facility looking for clues. Okay, that's enough to throw wrench into the investigation to find clothing that's bloody and everybody's like, wow, we found evidence, but it's not her blood. It's from some other event. They continue working and they're looking and looking and looking as fear blankets the community. They're going through 70 camera security footage. The concern then passes beyond the campus. Parents calling frantically to see if their children are safe. So Daryl Cohen, yeah, I appreciate the fear throughout the community. I get it. I appreciate the parents

calling. But I'm thinking about the investigation. The pressure is mounting. When you're going on four days, you can't find her, you can't find her body. The pressure sets in. At that point, do you believe people begin to get frantic within the investigation and make decisions they wouldn't normally make? I think when your back is against the wall and you don't have enough leads or enough evidence, you're going to start reaching out in every possible direction. And absolutely, Nancy, they're going to be making assumptions, trying to see if this works and travel to the end of this dead end, back up and do it again. They're going to keep looking because it doesn't make sense. Now, leaving your purse as a female,

that's unusual. But leaving your cell phone, that is almost unheard of. Nobody, male or female, young or old, takes two it? Does some of her DNA reach that bloody clothing? Or is it completely a separate incident that has nothing whatsoever to do with her disappearance? Investigators find bloody clothing in the building where missing Yale grad student Annie Lay last seen just before her wedding day. But they say it's not Annie's blood, so therefore it's disconnected. You know, straight back out to you, Matthew Chase, investigative reporter Newsday. You can find him at Twitter at Chase Matthew. Hey, why is your name backwards on Twitter? You know, to be honest, Nancy, having it first name, last name was not available. So

I had to do it reverse. Well, hey, it works. Necessity, the mother of invention. So, Matthew, there's just too many coincidences piling up for me. You the fire drill the unexpected fire drill which lisa daddio says she explained away you've got just before her wedding you've got a boyfriend with an airtight alibi so say police you've got this professor who suddenly cancels classes he's so upset with an airtight alibi or so he says now there's bloody clothes in the ceiling why are there bloody clothes in the ceiling and cops say it's not her blood did you just like stop in your tracks at the time matthew chase when you heard bloody clothes were in the ceiling but i think this is where the you know the coincidences and um the the bloody clothing it's in a drop ceiling it's not uh annie lay's

clothing you just correct me matthew hayes from newsday and thank you they. It's not Annie Lay's clothing. Wait, wait. You just corrected me, Matthew Hayes, from Newsday, and thank you. They said it's not Annie's clothes. Not that it's not her blood. Is that what you just said, Matthew Chase? It's not her clothes, right. Not her clothes. That's a big difference. I thought they said it's not her blood. So it'd be totally disconnected, potentially. But you're just saying it's not her clothes as opposed to not her blood. That's a subtle but important distinction. Straight to really renowned in her field, Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant, New Haven Police. On this case, now the director of the Center for Advanced Policing at University of New Haven's Forensic Science Department. Lisa Daddio, I don't want to fact check Matthew Chase right in front of him, but is that correct?

I thought it was not her blood, but he's saying, no, it's not her clothing. Is that correct? Yes, Matthew actually is correct on that. It's one of many things that we started finding, but yeah, it wasn't. He's right. Not her clothing. See, that changes everything because that coincidence is just, you know, it's like taking out a billboard on Third Avenue. You're standing on a crime scene to suddenly find bloody clothes, even though they're not hers, stuffed up in the ceiling. And Lisa Daddio, was it the ceiling of where she was last known to be or some other ceiling?

No. So it was actually the drop ceiling of the lower level. It was not in her lab room where her key card had left, key card at her entry. So it was somebody else's clothes covered in blood. Lisa, was the blood dried? Yes, it was. It was actually absorbed on the articles of clothing that were found. If it had even been the least bit damp, we would definitely know it had to be connected. But the blood is dried. So is it another red herring or is it for real?

Matthew Chase, what's a drop ceiling? Yeah, you know, in older buildings, they'll look up and you'll see a ceiling, but in some buildings there is a tile that you can lift up and you can access electrical materials, electrical wires. And, you know, in this case, someone apparently lifted up the ceiling and put in the clothes that we're just talking about. And how were those found, Matthew Chase? Why would you think in a place unrelated to any lay within the building to look in the ceiling? The police, the FBI, actually multiple police agencies were on this case and they were looking everywhere. So I, of course, was not in the basement, but I assume that they were looking with the schematics. They're looking in the ceiling. They're looking in every closet. They're looking everywhere.

And they make this discovery. Yeah, you're right, Matthew Chase. yet again, investigative reporter in Newsday. Now I get the investigative part of that. Lisa Daddio, I know they came in with the blueprints for the building, but what led them to search an unrelated drop ceiling? basically any crime scene that investigators are processing or trying to look for evidence, you're going to look for, look in areas where anything can be hidden or discarded. So it's not unusual for them to look in ceilings, look behind things, look under things, you know, because we know that, I mean, one thing that's really important, Nancy, to realize, this is originally considered a missing person case. So the lab, for a couple days after Annie went missing, was still open and operating under normal circumstances.

Contamination. Oh, yeah. And so, you know, again, the first, I'd say probably close to 48 hours or so-ish, you know, it was being treated as a missing person case, possibly a runaway bride case. So there was no reason to lock the building down and, you know, like on that day three-ish mark, that it expanded their search to look where evidence could be concealed. And so, you know, the drop ceiling in the lab, all the different boxes that were in there that had contained discarded gloves and lab clothes, like biohazard, you know, obviously boxes, and just looking everywhere for where some type of evidence to make a link, to make a connection, can be found. And then a break in the case.

Take a listen to Randall Pinkston, CBS. It was the discovery that everyone dreaded after an exhaustive search using sniffer dogs and high-tech equipment. Last night, authorities announced they had found remains. And even before they had made positive identification, they say they believe it is indeed the body of 24-year-old Annie Lay. Five days after Annie Lay vanished, state police found a body in the building where she was last seen alive. Shortly after police made the announcement, Yale's president offered his condolences. Our hearts go out to the family of Annie Lee, to her fiancé, to her friends. The family and fiancé and friends now must suffer the additional ordeal of waiting for the body to be positively identified.

Who murdered Annie Lay? As the family waits for a positive identification, knowing in their hearts who else could it be? Nancy Grace, Killers Amongst Us, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.