Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Lady doctor and hubby found dead, execution style, at high class botanical garden.

Episode Date: April 9, 2020

The bodies of Dr. Beth Potter and her husband, Robin Carre, were found in the early morning hour at UW Arboretum. The two had been shot, execution style, in the head. 18-year-old Khari Sanford, is arrested. What is his relationship to the family?Joining Nancy Grace today to discuss: Troy Slaten - Criminal Defense Attorney, Los Angeles California  Bobby Chacon - Former Special Agent FBI, screenwriter "Criminal Minds"   Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet" Dr Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta Ga Sierra Gillespie - WMTV NBC 15 Madison, WI. News Reporter  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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How does a lady doctor and her husband end up executed, targeted, assassinated, lying dead in a ditch. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does that happen? A lady doctor shot dead along with her husband? No sign whatsoever of homicide-suicide packed between them. Who would talk and a husband to shoot them dead on the side of the road, leaving their bodies in a ditch? Take a listen now to WKOW News reporter Andrew Merica. We've learned the victims in yesterday's double homicide were a UW doctor and her husband. The Dane County medical examiner says 52-year-old Dr. Beth Potter and her husband, 57-year-old Robin Carr, both died of homicidal-related trauma. UW-Madison police say

someone jogging through the arboretum around 6 30 yesterday morning saw Potter and Carr lying in a ditch. Carr was pronounced dead at the scene while Potter died at the hospital. Officers have worked around the clock to canvas the neighborhood and track down leads but so far still have no suspect. Officers did confirm to 27 News that the killings were targeted though they're still investigating why. With me, an all-star panel. First of all, renowned lawyer joining me out of the L.A. jurisdiction, Troy Slayton, has tried multiple cases in multiple jurisdictions. Bobby Chacon, former FBI special agent, screenwriter, Criminal Minds, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University,

author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, and renowned psychiatrist joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Dr. Angela Arnold. But first, to special guests joining us from WMTV NBC 15, Madison, Sierra Gillespie. Sierra, thank you so much for being with us. First of all, explain what the lady doc and her husband were doing at an arboretum at that time of day. Hi, Nancy. Yeah, that's something we're still working to find out. I mean, we do know that Dr. Beth Potter was very active, loved to be outside. That's a jogging trail on the campus

of University of Wisconsin-Madison, but we don't know for sure why they were there that morning. Interesting, Sierra Gillespie, WMTV, why were they there? Because if it were their usual jogging track, which I advise against, strongly against, you know, Sierra Gillespie, I was doing a ton of research for a book that's going to come out called Don't Be a Victim Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave. And part of it is about staying safe while you're exercising. Do not use the same route all the time. That is what happened to Vanessa Marquette. That is what happened to so many other people. They use a regular jogging path.

And if you have, somebody has a grudge against you or you're in a regular spot every day, same time, you're a target for a killer. So I'm just trying to figure out if that's what these two were doing there, or if it's something even more clandestine, such as they were lured there. I'm just trying to figure out if that's what these two were doing there or if it's something even more clandestine, such as they were lured there. I'm interested, Sarah, Sierra Gillespie joining me from WMTV, NBC 15 Madison. Sierra, do we know what they were wearing? Were they wearing jogging outfits, running shoes? Any idea?

As of right now, that information has not been released. I've been pushing police on more details but they have been pretty tight-lipped about this so i'm not sure whether they were wearing jogging interesting interesting and there's a reason for that former fbi special agent screenwriter on criminal minds bobby chacon with me bobby it's very important that for a period of time at least, cops keep certain details close to the vest. Why? Explain that.

Why not release what they were wearing? Why not tell the public all the information? Maybe the public could help. There's a reason for it, Bobby Chacon. Sure, Nancy, and I think you hit on it when you said they could have been lured there. I mean, as an investigator, we want to keep everything as close to the vest all the time. The reason we release things to the public is if it aids the investigation. And so when we bring somebody into custody, they have all kinds of stories.

They'll deny what they did. They'll deny where they were. And when we question them, we want to be able to test the veracity of their statements to us. And the more we put out in public, the more they can form their story or their alibi or whatever it is to fit the facts as they know they are based on what's been released to the press. So we try to keep very early on an investigation even before we have somebody to talk to to question about it as close to the vest so that when they start trying to explain their whereabouts or explain their behavior they're not doing it to try to conform to what they know we already know.

Troy Slayton don't you just love it when your client is being questioned by police of course before you get there to make them be quiet and And they blurt out something like, I didn't know they were going to be jogging that day when that hasn't been released. And only the killer would know that detail. Doesn't that just strike a chord in you, Troy Slate, when you see that in the transcript of what your client has said? Well, that's why I always tell my clients that nothing good comes from talking to the police.

And even in the situation where my client has done nothing wrong. Oh, that's every time because you've never had a guilty client, have you? Well, most of the time, no, Nancy. But even innocent people can sometimes get themselves embroiled in something by speaking to the police because the police, not good investigators like Bobby Chacon, but others can take innocent stories and twist them to match the facts of a case. You know, it's interesting, Troy Slayton. I used to tell my juries when I would do closing statements, not openings, because those are limited to the facts. But in argument at closing, for instance, if I would have a defendant run, I would very clearly say to the jury, you know, when you see a state trooper come up behind you on the interstate,

what do you do? Hit the pedal to the metal and take off at 100 mph? No, because you don't need to flee. So why did this guy, the minute he sees the cops, take off at 100 mph? No, because you don't need to flee. So why did this guy, the minute he sees the cops, take off running? Nothing but tail hole and elbows. That's all they could see is he ran off in the distance.

Why? Why run? So it's what you're saying. Bobby Chacon, did you hear that? Nothing good comes out of talking to police. I talk to police. I don't take off at 100 MPH. So right there. You know, Troy does an excellent job for his clients, but, you know, that's the problem that we have is that.

You're a problem, Troy. You're a problem. Yeah, you know, we need early investigation. We need everybody to be as honest and open as we can. And, you know, I think that personally in my career, many, many good things have happened to people because they've talked to the police and talked to me. And you know what, Bobby Chacon, I will never forget when you and I first talked in depth,

you were in charge of a rescue, well, a recovery mission of a young girl that had been kidnapped from a coffee stand. She had been raped. She had been murdered. You were trying to find her body. You ended up deep diving in sub-zero water to pull up body parts and plastic bags. You know what you're talking about, as do you, Troy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Guys, for those of you just joining us, we are talking about Dr. Beth Potter and her husband, Robin, apparently targeted for assassination in a ditch. As a matter of fact, take a listen to what friends say about these two. Who would want them assassinated? Think about your favorite neighbor. And then you find out they've been shot dead, targeted in a ditch. This is WMTV NBC 15, our friend Sierra Gillespie.

The scene of the UW Arboretum is quiet today, but just two days ago, the bodies of Robin Kari and his wife, Dr. Beth Potter, were found in the Arboretum ditch. Friends we spoke to say they're still coming to terms with this loss. There are no words. Family friends call the loss devastating, saying 52-year-old Dr. Beth Potter and 57-year-old Robin Curry were staples of the community. Potter worked as a doctor with UW Health, recently taking the lead on COVID-19 care for employee health. Friends say social distancing makes news of their deaths harder to cope with.

I would say it's devastating because everybody wants to get together and celebrate his life and support one another in these tough times. The pair had three children and spent many hours supporting their love of soccer. Kari even acting as coach. He had a love and enthusiasm about the game with everything he did, all the people he knew. You know, I immediately thought Sierra Gillespie joining me, special guest WMTV NBC 15 there in Madison. I immediately thought of my son's basketball coach and he's been his coach now for years and his soccer coach and my daughter's volleyball coaches. I love them.

And you've got a special place in heaven to be a coach to, for instance, Little League. And I'm thinking about these two. I mean, who could be more scrubbed in sunshine than a doctor fighting COVID-19 and a soccer coach for Pete's sake. What do we know about these two? And Sierra Gillespie, I'm asking because very often you identify a killer based on the circle of associates of the victim. You start with the family, then you start moving out. So what do we really know, Sierra Gillespie? I mean, I just covered a case where this local DJ, April Kaufman, I think was her name, was married to an upstanding doctor,

had his own clinic, worked at the hospital. How did we know he was selling Oxy to Hell's Angels and he had a drug ring going? Nobody knew. so what can you tell me about these victims only thing i hear about them it's all wonderful yeah actually some of the friends that i spoke with you heard him in that story i asked him what do you want them to be remembered for and he said honestly it would be very difficult for you to find somebody who could say something bad about them they were just really good people i mean for 20 years, Robin Kari was coaching soccer in the Madison area. He has three kids, and that's from when they were about five or six until, I mean, graduating high school. Thousands of kids he was coaching and working with their parents. And honestly,

I mean, like you were talking about with your kids, these people are angels to work with young children and to form them and to learn all the rules and regulations. I mean, you learn a lot out of sports more than just the actual game. So that was Robin Kari and his wife, Dr. Beth Potter. I mean, we touched on it there, too. Just days before her murder, she was working on COVID-19 research. I mean, she really cares about the community. She was a prominent professor here at UW-19 research. I mean, she really cares about the community. She was a prominent professor here at UW-Madison. And another thing that friends were telling me too, these people

were pillars of the community. They were a big deal here and they really cared about the Madison area. You know what, Sierra Gillespie, I'm sure you didn't mean to, but you're really hurting me and I'll tell you why. Dr. Angela Arnold is a renowned psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction. Dr. Angela, I had to wrestle with this for the first time as really a young girl when my fiance was murdered. Keith was like a ray of sunshine. Couldn't be more good-natured, smart, handsome, on baseball scholarship. I mean, you couldn't ask for anyone sweeter or better heart than him, and then he's murdered by somebody that worked on a construction crew, got fired the week before Keith started his job.

And we always hear that question, Dr. Angela, why do bad things happen to good people? I still don't understand it. I mean, I accept it, but I don't understand it, Dr. Angela. And this left this community struggling with these two murders. Well, I don't think we're ever going to completely understand it, Nancy, but if the killers were, and I don't know, but if the killers were trying to make some sort of statement, then who better to kill than the killers of the society? That's a heck of a statement. What statement? I've just got to think to Joe Scott Morgan, following up on what Dr. Angela Arnold just said, this is more than just some statement. It's not about COVID-19. It's not about soccer. So when you are presented, Joe Scott

Morgan, with an outdoor crime scene, that's a whole different animal than a contained crime scene such as in somebody's basement or their garage or their car. When you've got two dead bodies in a ditch, you've got a serious crime scene challenge, Joseph Scott Morgan. Yeah, it's important. You've mentioned the word ditch several times. That goes to my thought that there was a potential attempt at least superficially to conceal what had been done. They're put into, they're referring to a ditch. I don't know if it's actually a ditch as we think about it. It might be a depressed area, but my suspicion is it's running along the side of one of these walking

trails. Now from an evidentiary standpoint, let's say for instance they were walked out there. They were just taken to that isolated location. Why so close to the road? You know, why would you do it there? Or were the individuals laying in wait for these individuals? Say, for instance, the people or persons that might have targeted them, and that's another word that keeps coming up over and over and over again. If they were waiting out there, we're gonna have evidence, say for instance, like footprints,

because this is a nature area. We're talking about soft, kind of malleable dirt. It's an arboretum. And for anybody that doesn't know, arboretum is like a botanical garden that's specifically devoted to trees. That's my understanding of what an arboretum is. Go ahead. Yeah. And so the soil is going to be very kind of loamy and soft and that

sort of thing. And if you have, say, for instance, a couple of people or one person that's waiting behind a tree in an area of concealment, if you can identify that area, you can go and look and see if there are footprints, say, that have been left behind or other items, say they were smoking a cigarette and they dropped it there while they were waiting. How long had they been waiting there and why go to the trouble of placing these individuals, these victims in a ditch? Those are two big questions that come up with me. Bobby Chacon, couldn't you tell from the crime scene whether they had been killed elsewhere and disposed of in the ditch or whether they were killed in the ditch? And unlike in a contained crime scene, such as in a bedroom or in a car or in the basement, you're not going to be able to get, for instance, blood spatter versus blood drops, which are a big difference evidentiary-wise.

It's going to be a more difficult feat to figure out what exactly happened when you're out in nature. The blood seeps into the ground. It's harder to find. The wind blows. The soil is disturbed. How can you tell if they were killed there or they were deposited there? Well, you're exactly right nancy it will be more difficult and it will be more difficult depending on the weather and how long they were there but there are some telltale signs that will um will take place like you said did they have um their jogging clothes on were they out there you'll look at their clothes

we'll examine their clothes what they had on them. We will be able to tell hopefully where they came from in the immediate preceding hours, again, depending on how long they were there and the weather that existed while they were there. But there are certain things you will tell, you will not be able to tell as much, obviously as an indoor crime scene that was static and that was preserved.

There are a few things that are vital that you might be able to tell and might be able to determine, and that is, were they jogging? Were they in a car recently? Were they outdoors for an extended period of time? So there are things, and all of those pieces will be gathered as much as they can and to build the story of what happened in the preceding hours, you know, before their deaths. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, how does a college professor doing COVID-19 research

and her husband, soccer coach, for years, end up executed in a ditch at an arboretum, a botanical garden? Nobody saw anything. Nobody knows anything. Take a listen now to our friends at WISC Channel 3, Madeline O'Neill. UW police tell me they have no update today as they continue the search for a suspect or suspects in the deaths of Beth Potter and Robin Kari here at the Arboretum. A double homicide they say was targeted. People I spoke with today close to the two say the husband and wife were amazing parents of three,

and the loss of them is leaving a really big hole. He was definitely missed when he wasn't here. Robin Kari was always around at Training for Warriors, a fitness program referred to as a dojo in Middleton, something fellow gym goers took to heart. He just always, always, always had something positive to say. And no matter what was going on in his life, he always was something positive. And it just, it was, it was addicting to be around him. We have a swear jar and it's a dollar for the word can't. And he would put a dollar in and say, because he didn't want to do chin upsups that's a tiny peek into the psyches of these two murder

victims they a lot of people have a swear jar in their home if you say an ugly word you have to put in a dollar their swear word was can't i can't and one of them put in $10 ahead of time in case he said can't. We are trying to unravel the mystery of a college professor and her husband found dead in a ditch. And I think of my sister, who was a college professor, a real brainiac, with her nose in a book, constantly researching and writing and teaching classes who in the world would want to gun down a college professor and her soccer coach husband who who would do something like that we are left with trying to analyze the clues left in a ditch a ditch police being extremely close to the vest in the case. But when you look at

the personalities of Dr. Beth Potter and her husband, Robin Carey, who in the world would have targeted them? Now, I'm sure you all remember the case of Tara Grinstead, the beauty queen, high school teacher, working on her master's degree degree who goes missing and is never seen alive again after a school barbecue. Years passed before the killer was traced back to being one of her students years before she was killed. So to Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining me from the Atlanta area, Dr. Arnold, you never know in that case. Tara Grinstead's killer was one of her students years before. Now we have Dr. Beth Potter, a professor there in Wisconsin. I think the reason they're saying they're targeted Dr. Angela Arnold is because there's no rape.

There's no sex attack and apparently no robbery. So with no robbery and no rape, no sex attack, what's the potential motive to kill somebody out in the open and leave their bodies hidden in a ditch? You never know who you're teaching, who you're working with. That may be murderous, Dr. Angela Arnold. It's very scary, isn't it? And Nancy, one of the questions that's just going through my mind is, could this have been some sort of gang-related activity? Could this have been a gang initiation? I find it really hard to believe, Bobby Chacon, that gang members are

hanging out at an arboretum, the Botanical Gardens. Yeah, having worked gangs in New York City in the 80s, it doesn't seem to me like it would be the type of gang initiations when they do try to initiate members by pulling off a violent crime. It's usually a violent crime that's consistent with other activities of the gang. It'll be a robbery or drug robbery or something like that along those lines. It will also be a victim, unfortunately, that benefits the gang to be killed. It'll be a rival gang member or it'll be a store owner that hasn't paid extortion money or something like that. It'll be something at least peripherally related to the gang activities. Guys, we were talking about the shocking murders of a college professor fighting COVID-19 through research, and her husband both

found dead, slain, shot dead in a ditch. And then a stunning turn in the case. Take a listen to our friends at Madison PD. This is Chief Kristen Roman. Understandably, a violent crime such as this creates significant concern and fear throughout the community. To this, I offer that the suspect is known to the family. We believe that this was not a random act. It was calculated, cold-blooded, and senseless. And we will continue to do all we can to bring justice to Robin and Beth, their family, and their loved ones. While this arrest is a significant development, no criminal investigation ends at the point of an arrest.

This remains a very active police investigation and I encourage anyone who may yet have information about this case to contact us. A sudden and unexpected arrest goes down in the case, but what do we know? Jackie, let's go to cut seven. This is NBC 15 news reporter, our friend joining us today, Sierra Gillespie, 18 year old Kari Sanford. What we do know, he was a senior here at Madison West High School and personally knew Robin Kari and Dr. Beth Potter's family. It was calculated, cold blooded and senseless. Police say Sanford specifically targeted Kari and Potter. What we don't know is why. A jogger found the couple in a ditch early Tuesday morning.

Since that time, we have worked tirelessly to investigate this heinous crime and find those responsible. NBC 15 has confirmed Sanford played football at Madison West High School, where the couple's daughter Mimi goes to school. Court records show officers arrested Sanford last year on a Class A misdemeanor account of auto theft. We will continue to do all we can to bring justice to Robin and Beth, their family and their loved ones. Wow. Okay. An unexpected arrest of a young man, a teen.

And this is what we know to Sierra Gillespie special guest joining us from WMTV NBC 15 Madison so the killer went to school with the victim's daughter went to high school with Mimi the daughter yeah so what we know is he went to Madison West High School, and Mimi is still a student there right now. We also know that Robin Kari helped coach with the Madison West Soccer Club. So we know that they were both very involved with the area, and this 18-year-old Kari Sanford had to have known the family. We also do know from his Facebook, he was friends with Mimi, the daughter, and they had had a couple of comments back and forth together. So we knew that they definitely had a relation together. OK, hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Sierra Gillespie, as this is unfolding, the only connection we really see is that the alleged trigger man, 18 year old, went to school with the victim's daughter, Mimi. And I understand that the dad coached some at that school, but he coached soccer and this guy, the trigger man was a football player. So he would not have coached him. So the connection is the teen daughter, Mimi. Right. that's exactly right. Let me understand, you know, I guess Facebook comments back and forth between Mimi and the alleged trigger man. What kind of comments?

So some of his Facebook is kind of blocked off, but from what I found before it was deactivated, she had commented on one of his posts, BAE, like the abbreviation for before anyone else. And it had a little emoji with a heart. So we know that they clearly were familiar with each other. Were they dating? That we don't know for sure as of yet. But I mean, I don't call my friends BAE. Wow, this is a wrinkle in the case. No one expected and opens up a host of possibilities. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

For those of you just joining us, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation as well as Sirius XM 111. The circumstances surrounding the death of a college professor and her husband have been murky. They are beginning to clear up. You know, to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State, this was an illustration I almost always used with juries. I started the case with a giant jar of water and it had silt at the bottom.

And as I began opening statements, I would shake it in front of the jury and it would become muddy. Sit it on my table and the case would start. At the end of the case, it would be clear again. And as I argued the facts in closing statement, I would hold it back up and say, see, it's not muddy anymore. It's clear what happened. As we go through this case, we are learning more and more. Joe Scott, what do you make of these online exchanges between the trigger man and the

victim's daughter, Mimi? Not to suggest she's involved in this in any way. Here's my thought, Nancy. If there is connectivity between these two, and like you said, this poor little girl who is now literally an orphan is not, you know, she's not implicated. How old is your son, Joe Scott? Well, he's just turned 18, Nancy. I can't believe it. Mine just turned 12. Can you imagine them growing up without either parent as a young teen? Yeah, it's hard to even comprehend that and this critical point in their life. If an individual had developed an obsession over, say, this young girl, it could go to a motive. I think one of the things we need to keep in mind, Nancy, this is not some kind of passive event, their deaths. They've been charged with first degree homicide. And you have the

attack on two specific people. This is a brutal killing. And so that goes to, you know, why, you know, we keep talking about why in the world would somebody target these two individuals? Well, why would you? You know, it's like going in, you know, and pinching the heads off of roses. You know, why are you going to do that to destroy something that's so beautiful like this? You have to have a specific motivation to just bring down this kind of wrath and violence onto individuals that would end their life. So, you know, one of the things we always look at as investigators, who is in that circle and who are intimates in that environment? And this individual might have perceived himself as being an intimate. Guys, take a listen to our friend Francisco Almenera, WKOW ABC 27 News reporter.

Now with 18-year-old Elijah LaRue in custody in connection with the murder, UW police are now confirming that the couple had in fact been shot. We're to a point where we can confidently start releasing some more information to help our community better understand what happened and that's what we were able to do today. Mark Lovecott with the UWPD says they can't say what the victims were doing in the arboretum that morning, but he did say that is where they were shot and killed. He says investigating the department's first ever double homicide during the pandemic has posed many challenges, but they're making progress. It's been fantastic police work in a really, really tough

time. And our folks are tired, but they're doing really well. and it's been a remarkable week. The bodies of this professor and her husband found in a ditch by a jogger, 6.30 a.m. And remember, as Joe Scott Morgan pointed out, the professor, Dr. Beth Potter, was still alive at some level at that time, so the shootings could not have been much before 6.30 a.m. It was in the UW Arboretum. It's a research popular recreational area with over a thousand acres of forest and prairie. Arboretum is a botanical garden devoted specifically to trees in their natural state. Why? Is some sort of motive beginning to arise?

To Sierra Gillespie joining us, WMTV, NBC 15, Madison. Sierra, now there is a second perp. Who's the second perp? So we know that the second person arrested in this case is 18-year-old Elijah LaRue. And we also know that he went to UW, not UW-Madison, actually, Madison West High School, I should say. So yesterday I was working to do a little bit more digging about this 18-year-old. And I reached out to Mark Levacott, the police officer. We actually just heard from him.

And he told me all we can say is there were acquaintances. But I mean, for somebody who's going to commit a brutal crime like this, officers are calling it senseless, cold-blooded, heinous. I mean, they have to be more than acquaintances. You know, trying to get into the psyche of what would make you commit such a crime. To Dr. Angela Arnold, help me out. We know that one of the teens, 18 years old, treated as an adult under the law, knew their daughter, who's still in high school. This means he's, you know, at least a couple of years older than her. That's the only real connection we've got.

But according to Sierra Gillespie, the two had exchanged, at least exchanged emails online, but to shoot the parents dead. Wow. I know. And, and in such a calculated, why is it so early in the morning? I mean, I've got so many questions in my head about this. Did he perceive that the parents were somehow standing in his way of going out with their daughter? I don't know. I think there's so much that's going to be found out about this, don't you think? I agree.

Troy Slayton, I once had a murder over $10. $10. $10. A murder over $10. So it could be a perceived slight. It could be any number of things. And of course, Troy Slayton, you're the defense attorney. The state doesn't have to prove motive. But reasonably speaking, when you're arguing something to a jury, if you don't present a motive, you've got a problem

in your case. And Joseph Scott Morgan pointed it out that motive here is just not clear. Why would two young boys murder these two pillars of the community? Something's not making sense. Something doesn't smell good. And just because a young girl is calling somebody bae, look, my 12-year-old daughter writes to her friends online all the time and calls everybody bae so that doesn't mean anything and uh i think that police saying that this is targeted although it is senseless and tragic we don't know that these people were targeted 6 30 in the morning you think two teens are in the arboretum at 6 30 in the morning with guns. They don't rape.

They don't steal. And they shoot these two. And, oh, yeah, they happen to know their daughter, their high school-aged daughter. That's targeted, Troy. How can that not be anything but targeted? Something's not making sense. Yeah, you. You're not making sense to claim this is not targeted.

Uh-oh, I think i hear joe scott mulling in the background or is that bobby chacon weigh in bobby well you know it may not seem to make sense but it certainly makes sense for the police and prosecutor the prosecutor has charged them with first degree murder and this was lightning investigative work the victims were found tuesday morning the first arrest was thursday night the second arrest was saturday morning um so and and they've come out with phrases like targeted. So they obviously know a lot more than we know. So it may not make sense to us, but it looks like it makes perfect sense to the police and the prosecutors in this case. Prosecutors are

very hesitant to file serious charges like this, this quickly, unless they have some pretty damning evidence in their possession. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, I'm hearing in my ear we have an update on the case. Straight out to Dave Matt, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Dave, what happened? had been living with the victims and had been dating their adopted daughter, Miriam, in a relationship that had been going on for a long time. Two weeks before this shooting occurred, Beth Potter moved her daughter and Sanford out of the house because they refused to distance themselves socially.

Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. So you're telling me Dr. Potter moved her daughter, Mimi, Miriam, and I guess they had been letting Carrie Sanford, now charged in their murders, 18-year-old football star Carrie Sanford, who goes to high school with the daughter Mimi, the adopted daughter Mimi. They're letting him live in the home with Mimi. Yes, ma'am. That's correct.

It's my understanding that the doctor, Dr. Beth Potter, had some immune issue and she could not be close to people. It's my understanding, Dave Mack, she felt that her daughter Mimi and her live-in teen lover were not respecting her and were not keeping the social distance in the time of COVID-19. So she moves them into an Airbnb. She doesn't throw them out on the street. She moves them into an apartment Airbnb, not far from home. Is that right, Dave Mack? Absolutely correct, Nancy. And according to one of the individuals that Beth Potter worked with at the university, LG is how she's labeled in the documents. They had a conversation and Beth said that her daughter, Miriam, that they wouldn't

social distance. They stayed in the room all day, her and Sanford, ordering food, but then they would leave the house and go out and just ramble around and then come back home. And we're just being totally disrespectful of the rules that have been laid down because of, as you mentioned, Beth Potter, Dr. Potter's immune system. Also, we know that her husband, the husband, Robin, had self-quarantined so he would not hurt his wife. So he would not expose her to COVID-19 potentially. And then the daughter, Mimi, allegedly just stays holed up in her bedroom all day with her football star boyfriend ordering takeout and watching TV and whatever else they're doing alone in their bedroom. So she finally gets tired of them breathing all over her, not respecting the rules, and then shells out for them to be in an

Airbnb. She pays for their place. What can you tell me, Dave Mack, about conversations, alleged conversations coming to light about how the daughter, Mimi, was bragging that her parents were rich and they had a lot of bands, which is thousands of dollars? Well, early in the month of March, a friend of theirs, before school was suspended, a friend overheard Miriam and Sanford talking about the need for money. And Miriam flat out said, hey, my folks are rich. They got bands, referring to the thousands of cash. And this was over her bragging about the money they had. And at the time, Sanford had just moved in with Miriam and her folks. So this is a couple of weeks before they were forced to move out. So they were living together in this very wealthy situation.

Yeah, thanks to the mother and the father's hard work, working their fingers to the bone. We are also learning right now, according to an unnamed source, a detective stating that, I almost hate to say it, the husband, Robin, was lying face down with a wound to his head, wearing only his underwear. There were several.357 Sig shell casings in the area around the male victim. The female victim had been located, blood spatter and pooling, indicating the victims had been shot there at the arboretum.

But she had on her PJs and socks. He had on underwear. So it sounds to me that these two teens, one, the teen lover of the dead couple's daughter, had forced him out of their home, I guess, while they were sleeping. Because remember, it's 630 in the morning. I'm also learning, and correct me if I'm wrong, Dave, because there's a lot of information coming out right now that a jogger not only found them, but they heard some shots after 6 a.m. in the morning. Then the bodies were found.

Is that right? Not exactly, Nancy. What we've been told is that they have tracked the cell phone of one of the suspects near the home of Beth Potter on the night on the 30th, okay? Now, at about 11 o'clock, 1102, an ear witness around the Arboretum heard two gunshots at 11.02, and then four more, four to five more gunshots coming immediately after that. A total of six or seven shots fired a little after 11 o'clock at night. Thank you. So the shots were at 11 o'clock the night before.

They must have rousted them out of bed. She's got on her PJs, he has on underwear, and then the bodies are found. Thank you. That's very significant. Very significant. Your correction, Dave Mack, because the shootings were, we think that night around 11. Isn't it true that the boyfriend and his buddy, one of them show up at a friend's house excited and agitated and upset and very concerned that the wife the mom had been rushed to the hospital and was still alive absolutely nancy the word that we've gotten is that when they were agitated and excited and then finding out in the news that Dr. Beth Potter had survived, of course, they weren't named at the time, but that the woman had survived the initial shooting, Sanford apparently was heard saying,

I know I shot him. You know, I know I took him. And, you know, there were two shots in Beth Potter. One in Robin to the just above the ear on the left side of his head. She was shot in the head and in the arm. And she was when they discovered her, she was about 30 degrees. She was wearing pajamas and socks. Her body was down to 30 degrees. Yes. Correct. What about Mimi, Miriam, the daughter? Nancy, this is the part that bothers me. She hasn't been charged yet, but, you know, she actually alibied Sanford. She said, told the police that they were at their Airbnb the entire night of the 30th and the 31st and that they did not leave. Didn't she text somebody about she was, you know, two rooms over from them and they had gotten back?

We know that she was texting Sanford when she told the police that they were together at that Airbnb, you know, and she claimed that they had the text messages back and forth where, you know, she was trying to find out what was going on. And police were like, well, if you guys are both here together at the same time, why are you texting him? So we know that she's texting him while this is going on, while she claims they're in that Airbnb together. We understand that after the two, Sanford and LaRue had come back to the apartment where the daughter, Miriam, known as Mimi, was. She texted an unidentified friend saying, quote, I want to cry, but I'm also in an apartment with them and it's literally two and a half rooms, so that's fun. But they come back. So we know that she alibied him knowing that he was gone.

We know that much right now. As of right now, the daughter, Miriam, has not been charged. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.