Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - LISTEN: JEFFREY EPSTEIN PAL PRINCE ANDREW DENIES REPEATED UNDERAGE SEX WITH U.S. GIRL. IS HE LYING?

Episode Date: November 19, 2019

Prince Andrew of Great Britain speaks publicly for the first time since sex abuse allegations have been made against him. Prince Andrew stands accused by at least one teen victim of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged sex trafficking ring. In his interview with the BBC, he denied having sex with the girl and also denies knowing her.Joining Nancy Grace today to discuss: Cloyd Steiger - 36 years Seattle Police Department, 22 years Homicide detective, Author "Seattles Forgotten Serial Killer-Gary Gene Grant"  Dr Caryn Stark - Psychologist  Joseph Scott Morgan  Forensics Expert, Professor of Forensics, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet"  Levi Page - Investigative reporter Crime Online  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Do you have a daughter? I do. She just turned 12 along with her twin, my son, John David. Can you imagine just a few short years after that, your daughter is sex trafficked? Because I lay awake at night thinking about crime victims that we speak to, that we cover, that we try to find and try to help. And this drama unfolding right now, going all the way to the highest echelons of our world society, all the way to Prince Andrew in Great Britain, is making me ill, sick to my stomach. His denials in his recent BBC interview,

ever knowing one of the underage victims, it's so obvious he's lying. It's all connected to the billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, mysteriously found dead in his cell. But what is the truth? Join us as we listen to Prince Andrew trying to squirm his way out of underage sex allegations. And P.S. Underage sex is a euphemism. That's putting perfume on the pig. It's statutory rape. This is Crime Stories. I'm Nancy Grace.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You don't remember meeting her? No. The prince categorically denying he ever had sex with Giuffre. As for this now infamous picture of the two together, the prince says he doesn't remember it being taken and says it could be a fake. From the investigations that we've done, you can't prove whether or not that photograph is faked or not

because it is a photograph of a photograph of a photograph. So it's very difficult to be able to prove it. But I don't remember that photograph ever being taken. Andrew claims that on the date of one of their alleged encounters, he was with his daughter. On that particular day, I was at home. I was with his daughter. On that particular day, I was at home. I was with the children. I'd taken Beatrice to a Pizza Express in Woking for a party. Why would you remember that so specifically?

Why would you remember a Pizza Express birthday and being at home? Because going to Pizza Express in Woking is an unusual thing for me to do. Well, I'm sure the Pizza Express in Woking isn't very happy about that. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Well, you know what? Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

I can't take credit for that. That's from Shakespeare. Sounds to me like Prince Andrew is spinning quite the tangled web. But it's a very, very complicated scenario. And it ends with allegations of underage sex. You know what that is? Statutory rape. It all goes back to Epstein.

Jeffrey Epstein, the multimillionaire, now dead, many believe, killed behind bars because he could name so many high-powered and influential men that he hooked up with teen girls. Will we ever know the truth? I've got a funny feeling we will. Thanks for being with us again. This is Nancy Grace, Crime Stories. Prince Andrew speaks in a toe-curling interview. Probably now wishing he hadn't done it with me. An all-star lineup to try to determine the truth. First of all, Cloyd Steiger, 36 years Seattle PD, 22 years homicide author of Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer, Gary Jane Grant.

Dr. Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, joining us out of Manhattan. You can find her at karenstark.com. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet. But right now, to crimeOnline.com investigative reporter Levi Page. Levi, let's just start at the beginning. I know Prince Andrew gave this horrible, horrible interview. I don't know who told him to do that. Don't they know anything about the Fifth Amendment? Why talk if you don't have to? I always had a phrase, and the rest of you will laugh because you've all been in and out of the trials. Better to remain silent and let the jury think you're an ass than speak and confirm their suspicions.

He should have just stayed shut up. This thing goes all the way back years and years and years. Jeffrey Epstein, multimillionaire, befriending rich and powerful individuals such as Bill Clinton, Donald Trump. This is not political. He befriended every man that basically wanted to have sex. Okay. And I'm not saying Clinton or Trump did anything wrong. I'm just saying that he trafficked young girls in and out of where wealthy men were. This includes a photo of Prince Andrew with a teen girl at a party where people are drinking and carousing. That in itself is a problem. Then Epstein is caught. Epstein, quote, goes to jail. What does

that mean in Florida? That he goes in and out of the jail at will and goes to his office to hook up with young girls. It's allowed in Florida. Finally, the feds jump in. Then he ends up dead behind bars. Now, in the aftermath, all these powerful men are afraid. They're shaking their boots because in the last hours, we learn that many of them are named in explosive pages of new evidence, 3,000 pages detailing further allegations against Epstein, the pedophile, and all of his friends. Okay, Levi Page, with that in the background, let's go up to date with Andrew. Why the interview? Well, Nancy, people were casting suspicions around him because of his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein. He has stayed overnight at Jeffrey Epstein's residence in the Caribbean in Manhattan overseas. He is good friends with Ghislaine Maxwell, the alleged madam that got these young women and directed them to have sex,

basically setting them up to be raped by Christine. They are not young women. They are not young women, Levi. Don't say that. They're girls. They, under the law, are minors. You're correct. They are under the law.

They are minors. Okay? They are not young women. They can't decide if they can be in a sex relationship with a grown man for Pete's sake. You're corrected. Okay, go ahead. One of those underage girls was a woman, a young girl. She was 17 at the time, a teenager, Virginia Jeffrey.

And she claims that she was raped multiple times by Prince Andrew, one in an orgy setting, another in London at Ghislaine Maxwell's residence. She claims that in one encounter that he was sweating profusely all over her. And because of all of these accusations, Prince Andrew has said, I need to get out in the forefront of this. I need to clear my name. Well, it's a little late for that. He's a day late and a dollar short. You know what? I get it. I want you to take a listen to not only Prince Andrew,

but his accuser, the then-teen girl, Virginia Roberts Jeffrey. I want to start by saying it's not how Jeffrey died, but it's how he lived. And we need to get to the bottom of everybody who was involved with that, starting with Ghislaine Maxwell and going along the lines there. I was recruited at a very young age from Mar-a-Lago and entrapped in a world that I didn't understand. And I've been fighting that very world to this day and I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced until these people are brought to justice. So thank you all very much. Appreciate it. What do you make of Prince Andrew's denial? Did you comment on that? You said you won't be silenced. He has been outspoken. He knows what

he's done and he can attest to that. Can you repeat that? He knows exactly what he's done, and I hope he comes clean about it. Thank you. Okay, let's listen to what Prince Andrew has to say to that. I have no recollection of ever meeting this lady. None whatsoever. You don't remember meeting her?

No. She says she met you in 2001. She dined with you. She danced with you. You bought her drinks. You were in Tramp nightclub in London. And she went on to have sex with you in a house in Belgravia belonging to Ghislaine Maxwell. Didn't happen. Do you remember her? No. Okay, you're hearing Prince Andrew giving a voluntary interview to Cloyd Steiger, 36-year Seattle PD, 22 years homicide and author. What do you make of Andrew's interview? Well, first of all, it was brutal to watch.

It was so obvious that he was deceptive. A couple of things stuck out to me regarding the photograph. He didn't say, I wasn't in that photograph. He said, you can't prove one way or the other if I was in that photograph. Well, if you weren't in the photograph, you know you weren't in the photograph. The second is when the interviewer, who a great job by the way asked him if she's lying he's not in a position to say that come on it's either i didn't do it so yes she's lying if he's really innocent you know all the affirmative stuff we've been around those questions what would you say to her if she's listening to this i have nothing to say you an innocent person would say why are you doing this to me you know something, something along those lines, but it's so,

it's painful to watch him wiggle and twist and, you know, not make eye contact during a lot of his long statements. He looks to the left away from the interviewer and then only comes back on eye to eye at the end of the question or into the statement. So it was just brutal. It was, that's actually a great interview for people trying to learn how to interview somebody to watch and see who's being deceptive and how to ask good questions, inching it forward one tiny piece at a time, and then have him make a statement and come back with some evidence opposite of what he's saying. It was just, it was a brutal thing to watch.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Nobody can prove whether or not that photograph has been doctored, but I don't recollect that photograph ever being taken. And you don't recollect having your hand round her waist in Gerlaine Maxwell's house on any occasion, even if it was a different date? I'm terribly sorry, but if I, as a member of the royal family,

and I have a photograph taken, and I take very, but if I, as a member of the Royal Family, and I have a photograph taken, and I take very, very few photographs, I am not one to, as it were, hug, and public displays of affection are not something that I do. So that's the best explanation I can give you. And I'm afraid to say that I don't believe that photograph was taken in the way that has been suggested. Why would people not believe that you were there?

I'm sorry, why would...? I'm just trying to understand. There's a photo inside Ghislaine Maxwell's house. Ghislaine herself is in the background. Why would people not believe that you were there with her that night? They might well wish to believe it, but

the photograph is taken upstairs, and I don't think I ever went upstairs in Ghislaine's house. Wow you know when you hear him speak there are so many evasive maneuvers. I'm Nancy Grace this is Crime Stories thank you for being with us. This is not a let's get Prince Andrew that's not what this is about. This is about what really happened and And did he and other high powered, wealthy and influential men have sex with minors that were handed over to them like a pizza

delivery by Jeffrey Epstein? And another thing, where is Ghislaine Maxwell? Why isn't she being questioned right now? Why are we having to figure this out? Why isn't she being brought in by the feds and questioned? What, just because Epstein got killed behind bars? The whole case is over? Oh, oh no, no, no, no. If he was the devil, then she is Beelzebub, according to these girls. According to them, she found them. She sought them out. She recruited them. She explained to them what various men would want in bed. And they did it over and over and over.

And if that's true, she needs to go to jail. Maybe she has the key to whether Andrew or others were involved. With me, Cloyd Steiger, Dr. Karen Stark, Joseph Scott Morgan, and Levi Page. Karen Stark, psychologist joining us out of Manhattan. Karen, what do you make? If it sounds to you like he's telling the truth, tell me. If not, explain. No, Nancy, he's not telling the truth. It's so clear that he's dissembling. I mean, there's just, he's so evasive. He just doesn't come out even and say, how could that be?

There's no way. I know that I'm not in that photograph. I don't know what they did, but that's not me. No, he says, I don't know what they did, but that's not me. No, he says, I don't recall. He doesn't recall. All of a sudden, he can recall when know, you're looking at a narcissistic personality. He's staying at the house because it was convenient. He says he's a member of the royal family. He has to stay at Jeffrey Epstein's house. It's convenient.

That makes no sense. And then he says, well, his judgment was probably colored because he was too honorable. That's just the way it is. So it has nothing to do with, oh, you know, I made a mistake, because he's not supposed to admit that he made a mistake. He has to say he was just too honorable a person, although I don't understand how that fits in there. Take a listen to our friend at BBC, Emily Maitlis, with Prince Andrew. He was released in July. Within months, by December of 2010, you went to stay with him at his New York mansion. Why? Why were you staying with a convicted sex offender? Right. I have always, ever since this has happened, and since this has become, as it were, public knowledge that I was there,

I've questioned myself as to why did I go, what was I doing, and was it the right thing to do? Now, I went there with the sole purpose of saying to him that because he had been convicted, it was inappropriate for us to be seen together. And I had a number of people counsel me in both directions, either to go and see him or not to go and see him. And I took the judgement call that because this was serious, and I felt that doing it over the telephone was the chicken's way of doing it. Was that visit, December of 2010, the only time you saw him after he was convicted? Yes. Did you see him or speak to him again?

No, that was that. 2010 was it. That was it, because I went... Well, first of all, I wanted to make sure that if I was going to go and see him, I had to make sure that there was enough time between his release, because it wasn't something that I was going into in a hurry, but I had to go and see him but I had to go and see him. I had to go and see him. I had to tell him.

And stay with him and stay in the house... I could easily have gone and stayed somewhere else, but sheer convenience of being able to get a hold of the man was... I mean, he was in and out all over the place, so getting him in one place for a period of time to actually have a long enough conversation to say, look, these are the reasons why I'm not going to. And that happened on the walk. I'm not buying it to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert. And yes, I know your expertise is forensics. You're a death investigator, but you prove cases,

you go to crime scenes and you talk to so many witnesses and have watched and taken part in so many trials. Just think about it. So you go and stay in a pedophile's mansion. So for an extended period of time, spending the night, several nights, so you can break the news to him that you're not going to stay there anymore. It sounds like a breakup. Why do you go out to dinner and go for a romantic weekend to say I'm breaking up? No. At most, you might see the person in a public place at lunch and say, look, it's not working out. It's

over. It's me, not you. You don't go stay with him. You should just do a call. Or for Pete's sake, he's the Prince of England. He can have one of his flunkies do it. That is just not appropriate for him to be there anymore. So right there, that smells like a lie. Yeah, it does to me too, Nancy. And this visit that he had at Epstein's place in New York, it wasn't just an overnight. Uh, he was there multiple nights apparently. And, uh, you know, the, you're telling me that the Prince, that a

Prince, a member of the Royal family can't get his hands on Epstein because he's moving about. So therefore the Prince who could be staying at the plaza or any number of other places in New York is going to choose to stay in this guy's place. He could have this guy brought to him. He could, you know, like you said, he could have one of his people reach out to him. He chose not to do that. He stayed there multiple nights during this quote-unquote breakup. It stinks. It stinks badly.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She described dancing with you and you profusely sweating and that she went on to have baths possibly. There's a slight problem with with with with the sweating um because uh i i have a peculiar medical condition which is that i don't sweat um or i didn't sweat at the time and that was oh is yes, I didn't sweat at the time because I had suffered what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands War when I was shot at,

and I simply, it was almost impossible for me to sweat. And it's only because I have done a number of things in the recent past that I'm starting to be able to do that again. So I'm afraid to say that there's a medical condition that says that I didn't do it. You know what? This sounds like a whole bunch of hogwash to me, a medical condition that doesn't allow him to sweat. I mean, again, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert. After he said that, then all of these photos have been brought out and printed of him sweating up a storm. And it looks like nightclubs or parties. And this whole thing about

no PDAs, public displays of affection. There's one of a woman licking his face. You know, it just, really, he just should. I keep saying he should never have done this interview, but the fact is that everything he's saying is being disproven. And you know the law, Joe Scott. If this were in front of a jury, the judge would charge the jury that if you believe any witness has lied, you, the jury, that's us, are entitled to discard any portion or all of the testimony. It's about credibility. And photos have already been brought out of him sweating. I mean, his hair is all wet.

He's sweating so much. I mean, that sounds bogus. I got shot at. I had a dose of adrenaline and I couldn't sweat for a period of time, but now I can? Oh, man, what I love to cross-examine this guy. Yeah, a load of hogwash. A lot of those photos actually originated out of the south of France. He was on holiday multiple times down on the Riviera. And so, you know, he's at these parties. He's at these clubs. He's got these young women hanging all over him.

He's sweating like a hog. There is a hog. There is a condition. Gee, I haven't heard that in a long time. Oh, there's a condition that's called anhidrosis. And it's, it is a real medical condition, but it's rare. Here's another one you haven't heard in a while. It's rare is hen's teeth. You don't, you don't see it very often. And it is not something. Have you ever tried to feed chickens? That is one scary thing. They all come rushing at you and start pecking. But I get it. Anhydrosis, yeah, the inability to sweat normally. When you don't perspire, your body cannot cool itself and you overheat. Sometimes it

can even be fatal. But Andrew says he had it around the time of the photo, but then I guess he got well. Karen Stark, it just gets, it gets murkier and murkier. It's very, very strange that he thought this was going to make any sense to give this interview and that somehow people would listen to this and think that he was innocent because if he i think it was mentioned earlier but i have to really agree if you look at his non-verbal behavior as well he's just he can't make eye contact and we all know you know when someone's not making eye contact that the first thing you think of is that they're not telling the truth. You can't make eye contact. And he's not definitive. He doesn't say absolutely not. I get into this. Yeah, you know, the fact that he keeps saying, especially about that picture of DeCloyde's tiger, homicide detective and author, we have to

weigh credibility all the time. And after you put three,000 witnesses on the stand, like you and I have, you start picking up on who's lying and who's not lying. When you're confronted with a photo, and instead of saying, that's not me, or I didn't do that, you say you can't prove it. Yeah, that's a big red flag for me. is ridiculous but one thing i want to add he was certainly sweating during that interview i guarantee you because he was so uncomfortable but you're right all these little uh i can't tell i don't remember uh it may have been i've never my one of the ones that i might have misunderstood but he said that picture was taken upstairs i've never been upstairs at her house well then how the heck do you know that picture was taken upstairs i've never been upstairs at her house

well then how the heck do you know the picture was taken upstairs right uh and and it just you could sit and write entire pages of the deceptions that this guy is showing in this interview this is actually a dream interview for anybody doing it because you just blow them out of the water. I mean, here we are, thousands of miles away, and we can pick apart the whole thing. Well, speaking of the picture, listen to Prince Andrew. I don't remember that photograph ever being taken. I don't remember going upstairs in the house because that photograph is taken upstairs.

And I'm not entirely convinced that... I mean, that is what I would describe as me in that picture, but we can't be certain as to whether or not that's my hand on her, whatever it is, left side. You think that... Because I have no recollection of that photograph ever being taken so why would somebody have put in another hand you think it is you next to her in the photo oh it's definitely me I mean that's a picture of me it's not a picture of I don't believe it's a

picture of me in London because when I go out to when I go out in London I wear a suit and a tie that's what I would describe as those are my traveling clothes if I'm going to go When I go out in London, I wear a suit and a tie. That's what I would describe as those are my traveling clothes if I'm going to go, if I'm going overseas. I've got plenty of photographs of me dressed in those sorts of, that sort of kit, but not there. Okay, that's where he's losing everybody once again. Guys, we're listening now to the infamous interview given by Prince Andrew. If you haven't seen it, trying to wiggle out of underage sex with a U.S. girl, man, it is something to behold. It's everything you should not do in an interview. To Dr. Karen Stark, what I'm saying about losing everybody, when you start talking to regular people like us

about your suit versus your traveling clothes, all right, a lot of people can't relate to someone having a set of traveling clothes. And also, Karen, I want you to listen. Before you comment on that, take a listen to more of Prince Andrew's claims, trying to wiggle out of sex with an underage American girl. The other aspect of this is that I live in an institution at Buckingham Palace which has members of staff walking around all the time. And I don't wish to appear grand,

but there were a lot of people who were walking around Jeffrey Epstein's house. As far as I was aware, they were staff, they were people that were working for him, doing things. I, as it were, I interacted with them, if you were ordering to say good morning, good afternoon, but I didn't, if you see what I mean, interact with them in a way that was, you know, what are you doing here, why are you here, what's going on? But you'd notice if there were hundreds of underage girls in Buckingham Palace, wouldn't you?

But sorry, you would notice if there were hundreds of underage girls in Geoffrey's house. Wasn't there. Not when I was there. Now, he may have changed his behaviour patterns in order for um that not to be obvious to me so i don't know i mean i this is you're asking me to speculate on things that i just don't know about so dr karen stark he thought all the underage girls were staff there to wait on him. Well, we know that's ridiculous, Nancy. And the man goes out and he parties and he stayed with Jeffrey. He went, supposedly he went back there because he found out that the guy was in trouble and being with underage girls and was going to not be friends with him. And so what he hid all the underage girls and only this one girl who happened to be in the photograph was the one that was around.

Because he doesn't deny that's him. It's just he didn't have his arm around her. You know, even in that, it's so strange. He doesn't say, there's no way. I never met her. I didn't see her. I didn't get close to her. He says, I didn't have my arm around her.

I don't do her. I didn't get close to her. He says, I didn't have my arm around her. I don't do public displays of the section. Nobody even coached him to say the right thing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I've no recollection of ever meeting her. I'm almost, in fact, I'm convinced that I was never in tramps with her. There are a number of things that are wrong with that story, one of which is that I don't know where the bar is in Tramps. I don't drink.

I don't think I've ever bought a drink in Tramps, whenever I was there. Do you remember dancing at Tramp? No. That couldn't have happened because the date that that's being suggested, I was at home with the children. You are hearing the now infamous interview that Prince Andrew of Wales gave to the BBC, Emily Maitlis. And boy, is it a stinker. In the US, we would have a field day with this and it would be brought in front of a jury with claims of underage sex. That's a felony.

But so far, nothing of the sort has happened. But of course, as great as my panel is today, Cloyd Steiger, Dr. Karen Stark, Joseph Scott Morgan, Levi Page, Prince Andrew is a star. Let's take a listen to Prince Andrew in his own words. There is video footage of Epstein accompanied by young girls and you were there staying in his house catching up with friends. I never I mean if they were then um I wasn't a party to any of that I never saw them I mean you have to you have to understand that that that that his house I I described it more as a as a railway station, if you know what I mean, in the sense that there were people coming in and out of that house all the time. What they were doing and why they were there, I had nothing to do with.

So I'm afraid I can't make any comment on that because I really don't know. I mean, is it just me? But Chloe Steiger, Seattle PD, homicide detective and author, I'm not going to name her, but I would say one of my very dearest friends has been known to smoke a joint. And the few times that I would be at her place and other people would take out a joint, you know what I do? Leave. Leave. Get up and leave. Can you just even imagine that? On the front of page six, NG lights up. Okay, that's not good. And that's what I've told my

children. You don't have to condemn the people around you. You don't have to judge them. You don't have to comment on it. But when you are around activity, that's wrong. You must leave. You can be polite about it. You can make up an excuse. I advise just don't lie because lies get bigger and bigger and bigger when you have to keep them up. But if he thought anything was amiss, why not leave, especially in his position? Because with great blessings comes great duties. And his only duty, he's not running England. He has no duties other than titular. All he has to do is behave.

That's it. So, Cloyce Tiger, why not, with his upbringing, why doesn't he just get up and leave? Well, you're exactly right. That's what you do. That's what a normal person does. But, you know, he is, I agree with the psychologist, he's narcissistic. He's been raised as a member of the royal family. He thinks differently than everybody

else. You certainly leave and you certainly don't stay for three or four days at the place when you said, yeah, we can't be seen together anymore. What kind of sense does that make? This guy, you just sit back with this guy in an interview and you see handing him rope, handing him rope, and he wraps it around his own neck and hangs himself. This is a, it's just, there's so much deception in this. And it's so obvious that he's just lying. It's just, it's incredible. Well, I mean, U.S. authorities are going to have to decide what they're going to do about it. The statute of limitations is passed in many jurisdictions.

But what about this case? And, you know, Dr. Karen Stark, psychologist joining me from Manhattan. Karen, I really think that most people, when they're in a situation where things are happening around them that are wrong, they just sit there. They're like sheep. You have to have the gumption to leave. And it doesn't matter whose feelings you heard or if it's a social faux pas. None of that matters. It had to have been pounded into him in his upbringing not to be in precarious situations. So I don't believe anything he's saying. And you're right to not believe it, Nancy, because it was pounded into him. The problem is when you're talking about that personality, a narcissistic personality, as we said, and the fact that he's part of the royal

family, he really does believe that he's above everyone else and he can get away with anything. That's been drilled into him. He has to represent them. You know how much I love you, right? Because you and I go way back to like 1997. We do. But as much as I love the sound of your voice you've got to hear this from Andrew another guest was John Brockman uh the literary agent now he described seeing you there getting a foot massage from a young Russian woman did that happen no you're absolutely sure you can't remember? Absolutely sure.

So John Brockman's statement is false? Well, I wouldn't... I don't know Mr Brockman, so I don't know what he's talking about. But that definitely wasn't you getting a foot massage from a Russian girl in Jeffrey Epstein's house? No. It might seem a funny way to break off a friendship, a four-day house party of sorts with a dinner. It's an odd way to break off a friendship, a four-day house party of sorts with a dinner.

It's an odd way to break up a friendship. It's a difficult way of putting it. That's a very stark way of putting it. Yes, you're absolutely right. But actually the truth of it is that I actually only saw him for about, what, the dinner party, the walk in the park, and probably passing in the passage. Okay, well, he brought up the walk in the park himself. I didn't bring it up, so, so far, Virginia Jeffries is lying,

the photo was faked, and now a literary agent is lying about a foot massage from a Russian model. He even says the walk in the park was set up. Listen. We can't find any evidence or my staff and my people and I can't find any evidence to suggest that that was what he was doing. I mean, you can look at it in so many different ways. The fact of the matter is that somebody very cleverly took that photograph. It wasn't, as far as I remember, nor do my security people remember,

anybody being present or close because there were enough security around. I mean, there are even photographs of security people around in the photo. Okay, you know what? I used to love it when defendants would do this. Everybody's lying but me. Everybody. The photo with Jeffries is fake. The walk was set up.

He doesn't say there was no walk. Nothing happened. There was no foot massage. There was no sex. I don't sweat. You know what? He's lying. My big question now, what are we going to do about it? Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.