Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Little league star on bike shot dead on way to convenience store; Who killed Chuckie Mauk?

Episode Date: May 28, 2018

Three decades have passed since 13-year-old Chuckie Mauk was shot dead during a bike ride to a Georgia candy store. But the search for the killer has not ended. Nancy Grace visits with Chuckie's mom to discuss the case and the painful loss of her son in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. you may need Truthfinder. Truthfinder may reveal court records, bankruptcies, contact information, social, dating profiles, assets, and a lot more. You get it all in one easy to read report. Why fork out thousands of dollars to a private eye when you can do the job yourself? Go to truthfinder.com slash Nancy and enter any name to get started. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. 30 years ago, a killer rocked the Warner Robins community after a 13-year-old boy was murdered. Chuckie Mock's life ends at just 13, but his case, unsolved. He'd ride his bike to a nearby convenience store all the time to buy candy. Someone heard a loud pop.

Witnesses say they saw him talking to someone in a light-colored car. They see a vehicle speeding away. But who would shoot a 13-year-old boy? Who killed Chuckie Mock? There is still no suspect. There are people in this community that were in this community at that time that know what happened to Chuckie Moth. There was a knock at the door and then nothing was ever the same. There was a knock at the door and then nothing was ever the same. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories and I want to use and do to solve a cold case.

A cold case that means a great deal to me personally. Chucky Mock, a little boy boy a beautiful little boy i always think of chucky and his little league his little league outfit and when i say that i think of him with the hat on and the golden brown hair coming out from under it and the little jersey so proud so proud in that picture I mean he's just a handsome little boy too and it always it gets blurred every time I think about Chucky I blur in my son John David and I think about him in his soccer uniform when he stands there for the picture and when he gets a trophy or those horrible little medals they hand out instead of trophies now. And I have to think about the happiest years of my life because of him and Lucy. And then Chucky comes back into my mind's eye. You hear somebody

in the background? That's Chucky's mom. It's Kathy Miller. Kathy, I almost stopped the call calling you to join me today because, you know, sometimes, for me anyway, it's easier for me to get through the day without thinking about violent crime, without thinking about the moment Keith was murdered, not wondering what was the last thing he saw. Did he think about me? Why wasn't I there? Did he suffer? Was he knocked out immediately? What happened? What did he go through? Why did this happen? It's just easier to wake up in the morning, have a cup of tea, and get busy.

Because, you know, go ahead. I understand that, Nancy. I understand that feeling. Why is that? I don't know. But, you know, I wish I could go a day, you know, pretending that it didn't happen. But I live with this empty hole in my heart every day. And to not talk about it is just not to be who I am because I live with that every day.

I live with it every day that he's gone, that I don't. I think the same thing as you, you know. Why wasn't I there? Was he scared? Did he need me? And I'm his mother, and I couldn't protect him. You know, you watch your children all their lives, you know, to try to keep them safe. And just a moment in time, he left me and I wasn't there.

I guess I don't pretend it didn't happen. I just don't want to think about it because it's so painful. It's so painful. You just don't want that pain to kind of enter your day or to start your day. But it's there. No matter what we do to think that it wasn't, it's there. It's always underlying. You know, it's that current, that low current in our lives. You know, another thing that I really, I don't hate it that much, but I do hate,

is that people act like if you're connected to a murder, if somebody in your family or your friend was murdered, then you're somehow, I don't know. Let's see. How can I put this? They look at you different. You're kind of a trashy person. You're like, I don't know.

People don't get it. It happens to everybody. They do. You know, no one's ever understood that, about that, that people look at you different. They will treat you different as soon as you say your child was murdered. It's like, oh, yeah, I guess I could know what he was doing, you know. And he becomes a victim again. And he didn't do anything wrong yeah just

let's put it out there at the very beginning chucky mott was a little boy he asked his mom if he could you know what why am i telling you i've got his mother with me kathy kathy miller is joining me who i now consider to be a friend. And we're going to get into how I met Kathy, which is the craziest thing. How we ever got connected is fortuitous. It was meant to be. But I want to go back to that day, the day 8 p.m. Just start with that day, Kathy. Okay.m just just start with that day Kathy okay it was Memorial Day and um Chucky would always go to this little market little grocery store just around the corner

from our house and buy candy for school the next day and he asked me if he could go he was just going to be gone a second and he went to the store to buy candy. Around the corner. It's literally around the corner. Around the corner. I mean, yes. It's just like not even a block, maybe. As the crow flies, it's probably not even a block because this is how it is.

Okay, there's the street. There's more of a main thoroughfare closer to where the store is. Then you pull off, and you go into a residential suburb. And it's tree-lined, and it's nice, and there's no crime there. It's just a regular American suburban neighborhood. It's pretty. Right next to a little bowling alley yeah yeah around the corner it's just like a little dream of what america's suburban life

would be and what he would do is get on his bike and cut through the neighborhood and go up to the main street which was not like some busy eight line it just happened to be where a little convenience store thing was and i mean people don't get it in that part of the country i remember when we were little oh my mother would have had a heart attack because for us to go get gum or candy we would have to get on our bikes and ride our bikes for like i don't know 20 25 minutes through woods and dirt roads and then we'd come up behind what was called the pep station right right and all we could get in there was like gum or a couple of right and then we'd get on our bikes and drive all the way back home you know really you know it's just a small little country, you know, little southern town.

And that's just what the kids do. So that night, where were you? Describe the scene for me. I was at home. Yeah. Okay. We had just finished supper. Yeah.

And the knock came on the, you know, to my door. But when he left, when he left, you were washing the dishes and you had your back turned. And you went, okay, go, but come straight back. What happened? I just, you know, I didn't even look at him because it wasn't unusual for Chuck. He was always in and out the house, you know, with all the kids. And he just said, Mom, I'm going to run to the store and get some candy for school. And I said, you know, come back, you know, don't be gone long. And he said, I won't.

And, you know, out the door in two seconds. And I didn't look at him before he left. He just was out the door. You know, it's funny that you remember that funny odd, because I remember the last time I saw Keith and he his family lived in Athens and he was working over the summer and he would come down to visit me and my family in Macon. And he had come for the weekend and stayed the weekend and set Sunday night. Oh, I didn't want him to go back. And so he said, okay, I'll stay. So he stayed Sunday night and we got up super early Monday morning to drive I guess like two hours back and I remember standing outside it was chilly because it was so early in the morning and he went down the driveway turned right and drove off to the

horn and stuck his hand up his arm above the window to wave over the... Yeah. And I remember that moment, like right now, like it just happened yesterday. It's funny how that works, that you remember that moment. It is. It's just as clear. It's just so clear. You know, how many times do you replay that in your mind, you know? And I remember thinking as he went out of sight, there's a superstition that says, don't watch the person until they're out of sight because it's bad luck.

And I remember just before his car went out of sight, I kept waving, but I closed my eyes because I didn't want to wish any bad luck. Okay. I remember that like yesterday. So you go, sure, go. Okay. Then what happened happens so you're washing dishes i'm washing dishes and then there's a knock at the door and i go to answer it and it's one of his little friends that lives down the street and she said i see chucky and it looks like he's fallen off his bike and hurt himself you know and i'm thinking oh no, you know, he's broke his arm. He's broke his leg. So me and my husband and we grab our other child, Greg, who's like in the first, second grade at that time. And we just run down, you know, to see Chucky. And as we're running, I see that it is so much more than that, you know.

And it's just, then it's just, it's just it's like slow motion it's I don't like my feet are made of lead and I just can't get there you know I'm just it's just I can't hardly explain how I was feeling I just knew I knew and then that's when we find him, and he's laying there, and they think at first that he is a hit and run, and they roll him over, and the bullet went through the back of his neck and came out his face, and he's dead,

and that was the moment and he's dead. And that was the moment that I kind of went away and everything changed my whole life. And that's the last time I saw him. To hear you say that moment when you thought he had fallen off his bike. You know, I thought I would find him sitting there, you know, just with his arm or his leg broke, you know,

and I'm thinking, oh, my God, that's the worst thing. And it's so not even that. When you saw him, what did you see exactly you know my mind sort of won't let me think about what I saw I know that sounds crazy but it just I get there and it kind of flashes away

I just saw so much blood because his blonde hair was all red from the blood and everyone my husband grabbed me and kind of took me to this fence so I wouldn't see anything and the police were there by that time and they didn't want me near anything to this uh disturb the scene and by that then there's just this huge crowd and I'm just like hysterical I'm just hysterical, hysterical. I'm just hysterical. And they're trying to get people to calm me down. And it's just something like you see in the movies.

It's just like you see in the movies. I'm just hysterical, and I can't get to him, and I can't help him. You know, I just, when you said that moment, you rarely think of it. Mm-hmm. I remember that when I went to Keith's funeral, I just couldn't stand the thought of seeing him in a casket. And I walked in, and the overwhelming smell of carnations, which to this day makes me sick. I can't stand it.

I almost feel like I'm going to vomit just talking about it. It's almost like when you smell a lot of gas fumes at the gas station. The thought of smelling those carnations is just, oh. Oh, the florist. I'll go into a florist. Oh, I never go in a florist. I can't stand that smell. I can't either.

Me neither. I went in, and I remember I just instinctively glanced into some kind of ante room. I glanced off to the right, and I saw his casket. And I saw just above the edge, the top of his profile, and I passed out. I passed out. Oh, I just know how you felt. I can't really even remember past that. All of a sudden, we were out at the funeral.

I can remember the pastor, God help him, poor thing, kept calling me Mary. Oh, no. I don't really care. It's okay. I get it. But I just remember that, and it was so unreal. And I've told you this before off mic that for about a year or two before Keith's murder, and I don't know how long after his murder.

I have huge chunks of time. I can't remember. People will come up and go, hey, do you remember something? I'm like, no, I don't remember. Tell me what happened. I've done the same thing. That's happened to me too and when at chucky's funeral my husband and um they decided you know to have a closed casket because they didn't want me to they just you know they just couldn't make chucky

look like chucky used to and um so it was closed and we just had his picture on the coffin, and that was it. You know what? I'm trying to figure out. I never saw him again. I'm trying to, not that it matters, but I'm trying to figure out what is the worst thing. when you find out the person is gone or that horrible time after where you're practically disabled and there's nothing you can do like those days and those nights and those hours that turn into weeks that turn into months and you're just completely disabled with pain and there's nothing nobody can help you you can't get away from it you wake up in the morning and for just about maybe two seconds you

it seems normal and then you remember and there's no way around it you no pill. There is no short, no pill. There's no shortcut, no pill, no medicine, no shrink, no nothing. It's no words, no person, no nothing. You are engulfed and wrapped around and cocooned in a pain that is indescribable. And there's, you wake up you every breath is so hard i just wanted to die i just wanted to die i'm just imagining you in that heat and you've dragged your little child along behind you running and then everybody is at around chucky and you're kind of off to the side by that fence. What in the world was happening in your mind? But then there's the funeral. When did you realize Chucky was not hit by a car?

Chucky didn't fall off his bike. He didn't hit his head. Somebody shot him. Somebody shot him and killed your child. And it brought daylight. At close range. I mean, you know, people were saying, well, maybe a stray bullet. Well, no, it wasn't a stray bullet. Somebody put a gun to the back of his head and shot him. And that is the fact. That is the only thing that truly I know. And I just, you know, and as soon as we went back to the house

after we left the scene, you know, and all the police and the sheriff and, you know, everyone's just bombarding you with, you know, questions, you know. And I'm just trying to say he was shot. You know, I'm just, I can't even go there it's just I can't go there it was just it's so overwhelming I can't even hardly put into words how overwhelmed all of this is at that moment in time and then I just like my hands start shaking and then

my legs start shaking and my whole body's shaking and then I start going into shock and so they have to take me to the emergency room and I'm you know it's just it's just this nightmare of things that are happening and so much is happening in that short period of time like from eight to midnight with me it's just trying to know that he's not coming back and somebody killed him somebody wanted him dead and I can't fathom it who would want him dead. Did you know about a recent law that could leave your personal data exposed online for anybody to find? If you've turned on the news lately, you know the internet has created a dangerous new world. Data breaches expose private information. There's a new cyber security

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If your personal info appears for sale on the dark web, you'll be the first to know. Visit truthfinder.com slash Nancy. Enter your own name. Get started. I can just try to get this picture in my head at a distance. Kathy sees her son sprawled out on the pavement of a convenience store parking lot, bleeding near his bike. They shot him while he's still on his bike or standing beside his bike. And in his little hand. He tried to get back on it. And in his little hand was still a pack of bubble gum.

A pack of bubble gum. So he had made it into the store, just like he told Mommy. He got his little bubble gum, and somebody gunned this little boy down. Now, what do we know? What have you been told, Kathy? What have you learned about a potential suspect what i know is he was seen talking to someone in a light-colored car and that's all i know had to be a man okay so it's a man had you had to be a man and their ages i don't know.

I thought it was narrowed down to a white male. Well, yeah, a white male. Most likely to the driver and a passenger is from what I know, kind of an acne-scarred face, rough-looking, you know. Dark hair or light hair? Wasn't it dark hair? Light. Light hair, okay. I think light hair was the passenger. I'm not sure about the driver.

I'm not sure. So the guy with light hair, a white male with light colored hair is he the one that had the acne scars yes yes well somebody had to get uh fairly close to him to know he had acne scars yeah i mean at least 30 40 feet at at the most i'm not sure how they got that. I'm not sure. And any remote idea on the make and model? No.

Just light color is all I know of. What do you think, Kathy, about a potential motive? I've always thought somebody tried to lure him in the car and he wouldn't get in and they shot him because he never got in anybody's car. No, no. And he wasn't, you know, he didn't hang out with any bad kids. You know, he was, he was like into the sports and, you know, he was

very well liked, you know, he never had arguments with anyone that I know of. Kathy, you know what you're doing, don't you? You know what you're doing right now? You're defending him to me. You are defending him to me like you're telling me he didn't do anything wrong. This wasn't his fault. Hey, you don't have to do that to me. But as long as we're on the subject, this boy, this little boy,

had never been in a day's trouble in his life. He made good grades. He was the star of the Little League game, the Little League team. He practiced all the time. He never missed a game. That was his world. That was his world, as it should be. It was mommy, his little brother, coming home, playing little league.

His bicycle. His bicycle. Oh, he loved the bicycle. He loved his bike. That was his little world. And it's not like today. And it's funny. What?

It's funny that you say that about defending him. And I do that, Nancy, to almost everyone I speak to. And after all these years, I still do that. I don't know why I do that. Because, you know what? You know what, people? I don't know why people wrote this. And it was out there.

It's on the Internet that Keith was at a liquor store and got gunned down. And then somebody else wrote that keith was a cop and then somebody else wrote that i made the whole thing up that i don't even know uh doesn't it just see i don't even know what all they've written just horrible horrible things i don't even know why so you know what it's maybe you're not so far off the mark by feeling like you have to be defensive. Because people will say or think. Now, wait a minute. Wasn't there some incident?

Oh, by the way, I recall people, witnesses were questioned. And it is believed the part was driving a white Oldsmobile Cutlass or Buick. Right. Yes, I forgot that. You're right. I did not remember the name. Now, let me ask you this. Tell me about the incident where a woman walked up to you.

Weren't you trying on clothes? Weren't you in a store and made comments to you about Chucky's death? Oh, it was, I worked in a doctor's office. Okay, okay. You know what? You know what I just crossed in my head? Someone who came up to Sharon Rocha, who is Lacey Peterson's mom at some she was trying to get an outfit and someone came up to her to store started asking

her all these questions about Lacey's death and you know people don't get it. I mean, when you can be having a perfectly fine day and suddenly somebody asks you about the murder and it's like getting cold water thrown on your face. And it can just throw me into a depression. It takes me days to get out of it. I can't afford to do that anymore with having two children. They don't need a depressed mommy. They need a mommy who is upbeat and ready to roll with them not somebody you know disabled with so that's what got in my head now what happened this was you worked at a doctor's office what happened right and um the doctor sent me a patient i would pre-op

patients for surgery kind of go over everything with them. And she saw Chuckie's picture on my desk, and, you know, she said, oh, are you Chuck's mother? And I went, yes. And, you know, she kind of looked at his picture, and she knew the history that he was murdered. And she told me, she said, you know, sometimes when parents don't take care of their children. God calls them home. Well, she hit something so deep inside of me that I had felt, you know, like I wasn't a good mother. I let him go. I gave him permission to go, you know. And it just resonated in me.

I just had to step out of the room. I went to my doctor, and I was hysterical. I was just hysterical. I was hysterical. Hysterical. Okay, all right. You are just making me tell my story more than your story, but I have to tell you what happened. Okay, so this is years after Keith's murder, okay?

I was living. Yes, this is years two, mine too. This, what, how many, many okay so i finished undergrad i went to law school got my law degree started prosecuting um after 10 years my elected da retired and i had originally turned down an offer to go to court tv in New York. I called him back and went, hey, I don't have a job. Here I come. I'm on my way. Yeah. And I had come home for a weekend to Atlanta.

And still at this time, even after all these years, I would hardly ever go out. I just, the sight and the sounds of everybody having a good time, I don't know, just rubbed me the wrong way. After Keith's murder, It just didn't seem right to me. I know that's abnormal, but just the way it was is still. I understand that,

yes. And so, my now husband and my girlfriend, who is a defense lawyer in town, Renee, the three of us went out after my show at night to go get dinner. It was late. It's like 9.30 or 10 o'clock at night because that's what time I would get off work. And we went through

this hole in the wall that had Cajun food. And I'm sitting there and eye of the blue, this has got to be 20, 15 years later. Some guy walked up to me and said, I was one of Keith's good friends, and I can't believe you're out with a guy having a good time. I mean, right now, Kathy, if you were in the studio with me my mouth just fell open I'm like I I didn't even know what to say did you feel like you just been hit in the stomach yes I feel it right now I feel like oh somebody slapped me in the face for you and to my to save my neck well of course it threw me into a depression. It resonated like that's true.

He's right. And, you know, I lived alone in New York and I would come home from work at night and just sit there in this quiet apartment. And just it was like a palpable, tangible presence in the room. The overwhelming grief. And I don't know the guy's name if he bit me in the neck right now i wouldn't know him but i remember that moment and it was awful awful what is wrong with people back i don't i don't know i don't i don't know but it put it takes you back i mean what did you say years of recovery that you've done. I couldn't say anything. I didn't either.

I didn't say anything. Nobody believes it. I just was so. I know. Me too. I said, I was punched in the, I couldn't speak because she had something way deep down inside of me that I believe too you know and I was crushed I was crushed and it that little bit of recovery I had made put me way back you know and like I was starting all over again and it was so hurtful but people say hurtful things to you like you were a bad mother because you let him go get

some bubble gum you know it's nighttime and you let him go okay so the other day but see what people don't get in the summertime in the south 7 38 o'clock it's just like noon outside yeah and outside. Yeah. And it wasn't something new that he did. You know, it wasn't, you know, the other day, Kathy, I was in, where was I? I was in Costco. Okay. Cause the children like a particular type of fish fillet. Okay. So I went in there trying not to get the free samples because they're really good. Anyway, so I go straight, and I left them in the car with my mother, okay? And she is about 86, and she was nodding off when I got out of the car. And they were on their iPads looking up playing Candy Crush or something. Yeah. It hit me while I was in there in the frozen food section

what if somebody grabs that car and takes off my mother couldn't fight them off and here I am in here in the fish division I almost ran out of Costco I mean there's no running out because you have to show your car and this and that and blah, blah. And I thought I would jump out of my skin before I could get, when I got into that parking lot, I had put all, you know, they don't give you a bag. So you have to put everything in a box. I was trotting. If you can see with this big box in my arms, running across the parking lot to get to the car. I mean, it never goes away. This was just last week. This was last week that I thought somebody would get the twins and hurt them. Yeah. Because you know it can happen. I mean, we have experienced it. We know it can happen.

It's not a story someone tells us. And I believe that's why we have this tangible fear with us that it can happen again you know it can happen again I'm gonna put out the tip line again four seven eight five four two two zero eight five four seven eight five four two two zero eight five or four or 478-542-2080. 478-542-2080. Chucky Mock was murdered. This beautiful little boy on his bicycle was murdered many, many years ago. What was the year, Kathy? 1986. Man. 31 years ago. What was the year, Kathy? 1986.

Man. 31 years ago. He would be 45. He just had his birthday. That almost, when you said he just had his birthday, that almost made my stomach did a flip because the twins' birthday is in November. And we were just talking about about what are we going to do

for your birthday what are we going to do because we talk about it all year after you know about two weeks after their birthday okay maybe two days after the birthday party we start talking about what are we going to do next year we're going to have for your birthday next year and when you said he just had his birthday right you know and i'm thinking you know what would he be now and what would he be doing and you know i'd probably have grandchildren and you know but he's only 13 to me and i know what i wanted to ask you nancy how do you what i guess you know after all this time and his murder's not solved, and what if it isn't solved?

I mean, what do I do? Do I let it go or do I keep trying to put his story out all the time? I mean, what do I do? Do I let it go or I don't know. You know what? I was just sitting here trying to figure out i'm supposed to be the expert and know the answer i'm like oh lord what what what's the right answer for what she just asked me and it came to me i don't think there probably is the right i think i know the answer

i think i do have the answer because i vacillate like for, I almost didn't want to even call you and bring the whole thing up again. But I want the answer. I want the truth about Chucky. And I think that everybody go ahead and mock me if you want to. I really think that the Lord will provide what you need. And what will get you through the day. For instance, I've been so excited about our Sirius radio show, you know, and I thought, oh, I want to talk about Chucky Mock.

I want to do this again. I want the story out there. I want the tip line out there. I want Kathy with me. And I remember after talking about Chucky on Dr. Oz or Wendy Williams, fate has a funny way. It's not fate. It's, it's, it's the Lord has a funny way. It's not fate. It's the Lord has a funny way of working, right? So it's in that vein, you know, as I always say, when you don't know a horse, look at his track record. If you don't know what's going to happen, look at what has happened because that's a blueprint. Please explain how you and I got connected. Wow. Well, like I said, I worked in this doctor's office, and it was around Thanksgiving.

And I was talking to some of my friends saying, you know, I need, I have to, I don't know what to do anymore about Chucky. I need to get his story out. If only I could get in touch with Nancy Grace. Your name. I just had this always, I've got could get in touch with Nancy Grace, your name, I just had this always, I've got to get in touch with you, but I don't know how to get in touch with her. And we had a drug rep that came to see us all the time. I loved him so much. And he, you know, he'd stop and talk to me and, you know, I asked him what he was going to do for the holidays and everything. And he says, well, I'm going to go to New York to see my sister. And I said, well, you know, who's your sister? And he said, Nancy Grace. I thought I

can't breathe. And I said, do you have a moment? I've got to tell you my story. And I told him the story of Chucky. And he said, you get me everything you have. And I'm taking it to Nancy. And I thought, God, you've answered a prayer. I finally, you know, you've answered one of my prayers. I'm going to be able to talk to her. She's going to help me. She is going to help me.

And sure enough, you called me. At Thanksgiving, you called me, and you said you were going to help me. And I've got to tell you something. And you have. My people, no matter where I am, and I thank God for it, to tell you the truth. People ask me, does it ever bother you? People are always coming up to you asking for help and wanting this and that. I'm like, no, no. I welcome it.

I want to hear their stories. And I remember the moment my brother called me. I was coming, I had done Larry King that night. I'd worked all day, stayed at Court TV and gone and done, no, how did it go? Then I went and did HLM across town and I had done a Larry King, which was a real blessing to me. And I was on the way home and Matt, my brother, Matt, Mackie, as I call him, I saw his number pop up and I answered the phone and he started talking. I'm like, okay, here's the story. Here's another story. And somebody wants me to do something. What is it? What can I do? And I was listening and he kept talking and talking and I never said a word. And all of a sudden I come all the way across town

and was at my stop. And we were still talking about Chucky and you, And I'm like, don't say another word. I'm on it. And I hung the phone up and I immediately, it's late by then, called my executive producer, Dean. I'm like, we got to do this. We got to do this. And that was it. Yeah, you did it like right away. I just knew in my soul that if I could get, if there's somehow I could get in touch with you, you would know my story. You would listen. And of all these years that no one has ever helped me, you would. I always believed it. I know you're not going to believe this, Kathy, but I figured something out. And you know what it took for me to figure it out? Many, many years, I was writing my book, 11th Victim.

And the heroine in 11th Victim is Haley Dean. She's a much better person than me, let me tell you that right now. But she loves to solve crimes and she loves to win cases, put the bad guy away. Because Haley, not me, of course, somehow, you know, every time she puts a Band-Aid on somebody else, it's like putting a Band-Aid on her. I mean, I get so much joy. I guess is the only word I know. It's not really joy, but I'm getting to talk to you and talk about Chucky and putting it out there again. It just feels like somehow we're putting it out in the universe and that somehow, some way, somebody knows something and somebody is going to come forward. Everybody, please, if you can hear our voices, please go to CrimeOnline.com. I wrote a story a while back about Chucky.

Alan is going to join me with a story of his own. And you'll see his picture. And you'll see and meet Kathy Miller. Kathy, my brother told me a story that you told him. And this is how it goes. You finally moved out of that house. And you were in your new house. And you were putting all the furniture in.

And you were putting up pictures. That's what you were doing. And you had put up the pictures of Chucky. And I am with you. I have out all my letters from Keith. I have his baseball. And I can walk by and touch him whenever I want to. You were putting up Chucky's pictures. So you got them all up.

You walked out of the room. You hadn't been out of the room 10 minutes. And all of a sudden, crash. You go back in. All the pictures, not one, the pictures of Chucky had all crashed to the floor. And your son

has said he saw Chucky run through the house. Mm-hmm. I know it sounds crazy, but that's so true. I mean... Strange and unusual happenings but that's so true. I mean... Strange and unusual happenings. It's so true. I mean... He is with me.

Tell me that part, please. Tell me that part. I want to hear that so much. That he's with me. Every picture just fell. I mean, all at the same time, not one at a time. They were all at the same time. Just fell.

And Greg just said, Mama, Chuck just ran through here. He just went down the hall. And so he's with me here. He's with me. And that just really happened you know you asked me is should we just let it go i don't know i don't know how to let things go i'm sure a shrink would probably tell you to let it go but i don't know how to do that and it's like if i let it go then what kind of mama am i you know we know the answers our children we were there when we gave birth to them.

We were there when they're hurt. We're there in their good times. Well, I wasn't there when he died. And if I leave him, I leave him. Well, there's your answer right there. You can't let go of this any more than you can forget it. You can't let go. People always say, you know, why are you still doing this?

You know, you've got to let it go. Well, if they would tell me, how do you let your child go? You know, you pick a child and you let them go. You know, you pick your child. Which one would you pick and you let them go? And you're right. That is my answer. I'll never let it go.

I'm his mother, and I need to know how my child died and why. I know everything else. I just got to know why him and why he died. And if he was scared, you know, and was the last thing he thought, maybe, I need my mama. Because little boys always need their moms. Today, Memorial Day, we remember those people, those heroes, who have made the ultimate sacrifice for us. Those fallen in the line of duty, fallen soldiers. First, Army Sergeant First Class Stephen B. Cribben, who served during Operation Freedom Sentinel.

He is from Simi Valley, California. He died far, far away from home in the Logar Province, Afghanistan, because of wounds sustained in combat. He had been assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 10th Special Forces Group. Army First Lieutenant Weston C. Lee, who served in Operation Iraqi Freedom. First Lieutenant Weston C. Lee was just 25 from Bluffton, Georgia. He also died far from home in Mosul, Iraq. He died of injuries, sustained conducting security. He had been assigned to the 1st Battalion, 325th Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division, Fort Bragg.

Army Sergeant First Class Hewton O. Brown. He served during Operation Freedom Sentinel. He was from Brooklyn, New York. He died far away at Camp Beringing Kuwait. After a non-combat related incident, he was assigned to the 306th Engineer Company, the 411th Engineer Brigade, described as a role model and a mentor. We remember Army Chief Warrant Officer Jacob M. Sims. He died serving Operation Freedom Sentinel,

just 36 from Juneau, Alaska. He died far away from friends and family in the Logar Province, Afghanistan. He was in a helicopter crash. He was assigned to the 4th Battalion, the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, and the Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Washington. He lived by a creed that few understand and fewer embody. He will never be forgotten. My dad lied about his age, gave up a basketball scholarship to go and fight for our country. He made it home. These fallen soldiers did not.

Today we remember them. And God bless America. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friends. There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble for people with something to hide. Have you ever had a bad feeling about somebody? Maybe suspected your partner's cheating? Maybe worried about your online reputation? If you answer yes to any of those questions, you may need Truthfinder. Public records are only recently easily available online. Before websites like Truthfinder, you'd most likely have to visit a

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