Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Lori Vallow Murder Trial Round 2?

Episode Date: December 14, 2024

Lori Vallow Daybell, convicted in the deaths of her children, JJ and Tylee, as well as conspiracy in the death of Tammy Daybell, now faces trial in Arizona for the shooting death of her husband Charles Vallow. Ahead of that trial, Vallow asked for a competency hearing, which was granted. Two doctors concluded that Vallow was competent, and a judge ruled Vallow will stand trial for conspiring in the fatal shooting of fourth husband, Charles, and the attempted murder of her niece's ex-husband, Brandon Boudreaux. After the competency hearing, Vallow tells the judge she will represent herself, saying she has been studying law.  Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Mark Tate -Trial Lawyer at TateLawGroup   Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA; Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women  Chris McDonough - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, & Host of YouTube channel- ‘The Interview Room’  Lauren Matthias - Journalist and Host of ‘Hidden True Crime’ Podcast and YouTube Channel; @HiddenTrueCrime on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Already convicted in the murder of her two children, cult mom Lori Vallow makes headlines yet again, just in time for her second murder-related trial. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. That's right. We haven't heard the last of cult mom Lori Vallow. In the last days, an Arizona judge grants the convicted killer mom Lori Vallow's request for a mental competency evaluation before her second criminal trial. Remember, son J.J. was found in pristine condition, dead, buried in a pet cemetery on her then, I guess, fifth husband's property, the prophet Chad Daybell, while her

daughter Tylee's body was found rendered down to basically nothing but fat in a bucket also buried in the pet cemetery on Chad Daybell's property. Vallow, along with the prophet husband, Chad Daybell's property. Vallow, along with the prophet husband, Chad Daybell, convicted and sentenced to life behind bars in Idaho just last year, now set to stand trial in Arizona for allegedly conspiring to kill her fourth husband, Charles Vallow, and her niece's ex-husband. I mean, she's murderous.

Of course, Lori Vallow, cult mom, pleads not guilty to the crimes. For those of you that need it, let's jog our memories, refresh our recollections, as we say. What exactly did cult mom Lori Vallow do back home in Idaho? It all started, it's amazing. I was looking at my notes way back when, when I was writing about, as I called her then, doomsday cult mom, now cult mom, Lori Vallow and brand new husband, Chad Daybell. And the very first thing I wrote was have till Thursday to produce their children. That's how it all started. When these two children seemingly vanish into thin air, they go missing. Then we found out about this twisted cult that Lori Vallow had become enmeshed in and her prophet lover turned husband, Chad Daybell.

That's how it all started. When we couldn't find those children, then the search was on. And we speculated. Are they being hidden away with some of the cult followers? Are they in some cave somewhere or some obscure home with the windows boarded up? And why? And actually, that's what we hoped. We hoped that as bizarre as it was, these children were somehow spirited away and were being kept by cult members.

As horrible as that would have been. And then as the days, the weeks, the months passed, we realized they weren't being hidden, that somewhere, somehow, they were dead. All this happened while cult mom Lori Vallow and her new, I believe, fourth, fifth, confusing husband, the prophet, as he calls himself, Chad Daybell, had gone to Hawaii and had literally danced on the beach after their wedding ceremony, taking wedding photos. You know how when you get married, a lot of people go stage photos on the beach. They actually did that. Now, it probably was normal to the people standing around them and watching them.

But what those people didn't know is that back home, J.J. entirely had been brutally murdered and buried on the prophet Chad Daybell's property, actually at his pet cemetery. That's where the children were. Then we began to speculate and wonder and investigate, well what about Tammy Daybell? She conveniently died right before their Hawaii wedding. Then the evidence began to unfold, including cult mom Lori Vallow going on Amazon and buying a beach B-E-A-C-H wedding dress and rings before Tammy Daybell died. I mean, I'm sure when the jury heard that, their heads were just spinning. Long story short, it proceeded from there to an indictment

for the both of them. Court wrangling, their trials were severed under the law, which means they were tried separately. The first to go to trial, cult mom, Lori Vallow, soon to follow the prophet, Chad DeBell. I'm looking back at these notes, when we were still looking for J.J. entirely. Believe it or not, we've gone through investigation, indictment,

and now sentencing after a very long and torturous jury trial. So many people have been affected by what cult mom Lori Vallow and her husband, the prophet Chad Daybell, have done. There are dead bodies connected to these two. We still don't know the answer to those. But right now, with me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now, Mark Tate is joining me from the Tate Law Group. Mark has tried many, many cases, including homicides, sadly, on the other side of the fence.

Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist, joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Chris McDonough is joining us, director of the Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective with nearly 300 homicides under his belt. Those investigations, many of which ended in a guilty verdict. I found him at the interview room on YouTube and you can find him at coldcasefoundation.org. But first I want to go to a very well-respected journalist, host of Hidden True Crime podcast and YouTube channel, Lauren Mathias. What can you tell me about the prophet? Oh, I can tell you a lot about

the prophet Chad Daybell. You know, I'm actually in Rexburg right now, Nancy, and we have been to his house. Hey, hold on right there, Lauren. I'm going to, I'm going to come right back to you, but Dr. Angie, I want you to listen especially to what lauren matthias is saying because cult mom and all of her kooky beliefs was still harmless until she got with chad daybell then people started dying okay so that that singali effect he had on her is something i'd like you dr angie to analyze mark tate i want you to think about co-defendants under the law. And Chris McDonough, we've seen a lot of murders where usually the man masterminds it and the woman goes along with it. What, she can't call 911? Jump in, McDonough. Yeah, you know, in this saga here, Nancy, as you've been talking about it from day one,

this is a situation where the two personalities come together. And quite frankly, she seems to be the more dominant one over this, you know, false prophet, Chad. And it's really been interesting to see that he's been just kind of, you know, tagging along. But he has a tremendous amount of influence. But what? Okay. Can I say something, Nancy? Back on his satellite.

Yes, please do. So I actually think it was Chad's belief system. Chad was a doomsday author. Chad had a scale where he rated people light to dark. Chad would decide if somebody was a zombie. And he is the one who labeled Tylee, 16 year old Tylee Ryan, Lori's daughter, a zombie calling her dark, calling her evil. Chad was the one setting the stage with his belief system, with his books. He was the speaker

at these conferences, these preparing a people conferences, where he would talk about the end of the world and how we would have white tents and we would have to shoot the zombies that came. And so these two, what they have done is horrendous. You know, I'm hearing Laura Mathai speaking, who was there in town. I guess that's Mark Tate. Go ahead, Mark. Yeah, I was going to just jump in for a moment. You had mentioned something about a Svengali effect that this Chad Daybell had. And I think it really is interesting because, you know, we just saw one of Charles Manson's followers paroled. And I think that, you know, these types of cult leaders are known to be very charismatic. And they make the people who are working with them believe they're

doing what they're doing voluntarily in support. And so it really is a control situation. And we have layered on top of that with Chad Daybell, this underpinning of his religious beliefs. And of course, everything he was saying. Can you please stop Mark Tate right there? Yeah. Tate, Tate, yes, no. Yes or no. Have you ever given birth, Mark Tate? No, but it's starting to feel like it in this interview. Okay, no, no. That was a one, that was just a one-word answer.

Because I don't give a flying fig who Svengali is. But when you are a mother and you would go along with somebody's idea for you to kill your children, you can go straight to H-E-double-L. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It was proven in court that cult mom Lori Vallow and the prophet husband Chad Daybell murdered two of Vallow's children, 7-year-old JJ and 16-year-old Tylee, as well as Chad Daybell's first wife, Tammy Daybell.

Does it never end with these two? Now, while J.J. and Tylee were still reported as missing, and directly after Tammy Daybell's murder, Valo and Daybell married in Hawaii that very same year. Tammy died in October, and these two murderers fly to Hawaii for a beachside wedding the next month. That's not fishy at all, right? J.J. and Tylee were discovered in shallow graves on Chad Daybell's rural property in Rexburg months after they disappeared from home. The 16-year-old Tylee remains were burned, 7-year-old JJ's body bound in duct tape. Now, after the murder trial in Idaho, Vallow spent several months in an Idaho mental hospital. And following those months, let's see, who was the judge?

I recall it was Judge Boyce ruled she was, quote, returned to competency and fit to proceed in her first trial. Idaho prosecutors claimed during Vallow's and Daybell's trial, the pair had extreme, I say extremely bizarre, religious beliefs, including the theory that people have dark souls while others have light souls. They claimed dark spirits could be so dark that they were zombies, and Vallow and Daybell had to kill them. They had no other choice, right, than to kill children. Well, it ain't over yet. She is now facing charges, murder-related charges, in the death of husband Charles Vallow and her niece's ex-husband. What exactly happened?

I want you to hear this. Rick Leventhal joining us from Fox. Take a listen to our cut to. Still more questions than answers in the disappearance of an Idaho brother and sister. Seven-year-old Joshua and 17-year-old Ty Lee haven't been seen since September. The kid's mother, Lori Vallow, and her new husband left for Hawaii about three months ago. Vallow and her new husband are members of a religious group preparing for the biblical end of times, and they've been surrounded by sudden deaths. Her brother killed her estranged husband last July, then he died in December.

And her new husband's former wife died in October. Authorities served a search warrant on Daybell's home Tuesday, leading to the discovery of what now police confirm is two sets of human remains in the backyard. New developments and somber news coming out of the Lori Vallow case. Relatives of the Vallow family say that the human remains found at the Idaho home of Vallow's husband, Chad Daybell, are in fact Vallow's children, J.J. Vallow and Tylee Ryan. You know, it's really hard if you're trying to parse words and split hairs who is the mastermind between these two, but burying the children's remains in Chad Daybell's backyard. I don't know what kind of mastermind devised that, but it wasn't that difficult for their remains to be found. We had to get enough PC probable cause to search his property. As the prosecutor described the way that Tylee was murdered, especially the part when he pointed out yet again, which is already in autopsy reports, that there were stab marks in Tyle girl, who was a mommy's girl, was stabbed dead.

She was stabbed prior to dismemberment. When Kay Woodcock began speaking, she listed out a series of numbers, which I didn't really know what she was talking about, but only she would know what those numbers were. 1,400 days since I haven't seen JJ this day, that she had all measured out, basically dissecting and chronologizing the time since the children first went missing. And they were missing for several months before they were ever reported missing because cult mom Lori Vallow kept lying about where they were.

With me, all-star panel Chris McDonough is joining us, director of Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, and star of the interview room on YouTube. Chris, thank you for being with us. What they endured. Little JJ, seven, Tylee, a teen girl, 16 at the time of their deaths. And that literally made me want to strangle cult mom, Lori Vallon, who by the way, sat there and hid behind her lawyers and looked completely

disinterested. One time, one time, Chris McDonough, I saw her very briefly wipe her face with a tissue. What did you make of what these two young people went through? One thing we don't need to forget is she is a serial killer. When we think about the horror that these children had to endure, the, you know, the child that's, you know, cut apart, put into a plastic container and then buried. This poor little autistic child, this little boy whose last photograph is taken at Old Faithful. She is evil to the core. I agree with you a thousand percent. You know, when you said that, that last picture at Yellowstone, those moments that she had with her children, knowing full well that she planned to murder them. And Dr. Angela Arnold, while she's there, Angela, Dr. Angie is a renowned psychiatrist. I call her Dr. Angie, but Dr. Angie, the thought that you were taking that picture.

I mean, I've got all ours framed all over the house of us at Yellowstone. She knew at that time with that picture, she was going to kill them. She knew what was going to happen to JJ and Tylee. You know, Nancy, that's why it's very important for us to realize that she is not capable of being rehabilitated. There is no rehabilitation in this woman's future. The mental health providers that evaluated her couldn't even come up with a diagnosis for her. And we watch a woman who cannot bring any remorse out of herself. No shedding of a tear, nothing. She can't bring any remorse out of herself. And the first step in rehabilitation, Nancy, is to acknowledge

what you've done and to have feelings associated with what you've done. So this woman is completely uncapable of being rehabbed. Lauren Mathias wants in about the autopsy. Jump in, Lauren. Yeah, thanks, Nancy. I saw the autopsy photos. I saw the children on the crime scene or what was left of them, what was left of Tylee's pelvis. I saw it. I saw the stab marks in her pelvis. I saw JJ's face and I saw the duct tape chin to chin covering his mouth. So I assume he couldn't scream and I will never forget it. What happened to those children is beyond imagination. You can hear it over and over and over again. And when you see it, when you see it, the evil knows no bounds.

And I just I just wanted to jump in and say that I will never forget seeing JJ and Tylee ever and what happened to them. You know, Lauren Mathias, there were many, many times. And this exact moment right now is bringing it back that would be in front of a jury showing them crime scene photos couldn't show typically couldn't show autopsy photos of people including children's bodies and describing it for them and eliciting testimony and I would have to steal myself not to just break down and cry at the evil that can be committed on other people, much less children. Now, I'm thinking about Tylee and the stab wounds into her pelvis.

She was largely skeletonized. There was some tissue left but that means that those stab wounds likely went through all the way to her bone. And the way that she was disposed of, I've seen the bucket, a photo of it, a bucket full of, basically, these children were rendered. Have you ever heard that phrase, Mark Tate? Mark Tate, veteran trial lawyer, joining us from the Tate Law Group out of Savannah. Rendering, rendering. That's what people do in slaughterhouses to animals.

And they tear apart the body and try to get rid of it. No, you're exactly right. We hear right up here, the world capital of fruitcakes is Claxton, and they have lots of chicken-rendering plants there as well. And you're right, it's absolute destruction of the entire body. And so not only did you have here this unbelievably vile, hateful, terrifying thing that's based on some kind of cult preaching or teaching. But you have this effort to try to, I guess, encourage more rapid decomposition of the body.

So, you know, folks have talked about whether this person is going to be rehabilitated. That's clearly ludicrous. That can never happen. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cult mom Lori Vallow in the headlines again. Granted a mental health exam as she heads into her second murder-related trial. Nancy Lori Vallow was granted a competency hearing relating to the additional charges filed against her. Once again, court-appointed doctors deemed Lori Vallow Daybell fit to face charges,

this time for conspiring to kill her estranged husband, Charles Vallow, and her niece's ex-spouse. Now, Lori Vallow's fourth husband, Charles Vallow, was shot and killed by Vallow Daybell's brother, Alex. He told police he acted in self-defense and he was never charged. Alex later died himself. So now, Lori Vallow moves forward to her Arizona trial. It never ends with this woman. What exactly happened? You know, when I first heard about the indictment to Chris McDonough, I was less than impressed by a grand theft charge being thrown in because I was concerned about the actual murders. But they were right. They were right. Because greed, greed, taking part in conspiring to murder Tammy Daybell, completely innocent woman. But when I was looking at those pictures of Tylee, just, you know, starting her life as a young teen and brother and sister.

So in love with each other. Having so much fun. All their lives ahead of them. Having their own families and get-togethers and happy moments. Just look at little JJ's little snaggledy-tooth teeth. All they had to look forward to. It's so young. And then the pictures of Tammy Daybell working as a librarian, working with underprivileged children, coming home from a long day, thinking she was going to get a good night's sleep and never waking up after her body was dug up, exhumed, we find out she was asphyxiated, smothered, dead.

And for what? For life insurance proceeds, 400 something thousand dollars and continued social security benefits for these two? It was all about greed, which takes me back to that grand theft charge. It's just overwhelming. I mean, Chris McDonough, you've processed, investigated, handled over 300 homicides. To think of money as motive, how much more cold-blooded could she be? You know, she is so past feeling, Nancy, to your point that, you know, the seven deadly sins, right?

Greed being one of them. This she literally, while preaching a spiritual persona, had made a deal with the devil. And he came collecting after he required a prerequisite of those children's lives. And this is what makes her so, I think, challenging to understand, because there she is dancing on the beach in Hawaii with her ukulele and the legs and all the stuff that comes along with that. And yet with inside of her mind and the individual with her, she knows that her child, both of her children have been one of them at least dismembered and buried and yet she's just in this other place and it is driven by this unbelievable sense of i want more it's hard to understand it certainly i want more everything chris i want more men i want more sex i want more power i more money. I want a different lifestyle without these children.

And when Kay Woodcock described the way that cult mom Lori Vallow talked about little JJ as a, quote, demon. I mean, his little face just illuminated from inside. That was such a happy, happy child. I want you to hear Kay speaking in our cut nine. Listen. She should have answered my calls. She should have spoken to me. I would have given her the money. She could have let JJ entirely live and had a million dollars.

She could have been free to be Chad's mistress and foot the bill with the money from spilled blood. JJ and Tylee could have been with us living happy lives. Instead, she took all that away, all because she is a money-hungry, power-mongering monster. And I will only have the precious memories to cling to. Now memories are how I feel the love I so desperately miss due to the heinous acts of his mother, the deplorable woman that chose to be his mother, the woman that five years earlier made the conscious decision to stand in front of a judge

and to support and provide for, care, love, and protect him. You know, to Lauren Mathias, who has been covering this case since it started, I try not to say story because these are real people and real pain and real suffering. You know, when I'm listening to Kay Woodcock describing the children and how precious they were, everybody that spoke tried to describe how disinterested Colt Montmorey Valley was

during the proceedings, how she acted like she was not you know, not even there, had such contempt for what was happening. That is who she is. How would she react during trial when the description was being given of how her children were murdered? She actually fought to not be in court. She didn't think it was fair that she had to sit there. That, you know, maybe she was embarrassed.

I don't know. We had to do a sidebar that lasted forever because she didn't want to sit through listening to her children's autopsy reports. She just didn't think that she needed to be there for that. And then when she came back out, yes, that is how she sat. She looked down and she sulked the rest of the time. There were some tears, but you have to wonder what were they for? Were they for herself because she had to sit there and couldn't get away? Or were they for the children she brutally murdered? I have a feeling it wasn't that. Could you tell us again, Lauren, what you saw of the crime scene photos of the children?

Yeah, I'll never forget it. You know, there are things in your life that you'll never unsee. And this is one of them. But I've been covering this case for three and a half years. I had heard what the children had gone through. I had heard some insider information and nothing could prepare me for what I saw JJ bound with duct tape. And like I said, I'll bring it back. Like his, his, the duct tape around his mouth was the most upsetting to me because there's only one reason for that. There's only one reason. And it's to make sure he can't scream, you know, that, that to keep him quiet,

that he knew what was going on, that he suffered, that they tortured him. That's the only reason for duct tape on the mouth. And I will never not see his little seven-year-old face there. And to think who did it to him, the people that were supposed to protect him, you know, Tylee's pelvis was the most intact thing of her entire body. And you could see what they call chop wounds and stab wounds in her pelvis. And an anthropologist had to come into it. An anthropologist that does remains for, for ancient burial sites that had to be the person that came in and testified about what Tylee Ryan went through 16 year old Tylee Ryan. And then they referred to finding her necklace that she was wearing that day and the chop wounds and stab wounds in her pelvis that had nothing to

do with dismembering her or getting rid of her. Why they were there, what they did to her, we'll never know. But that's just a hint of what she went through. Nancy, let me jump in here. Lori Vallow Daybell did indeed address the court during her sentencing. Let's listen. I'd like to start by quoting John from the New Testament in the Bible. In John chapter eight, verse seven, Jesus says, he that is without sin among you, let him cast first cast a stone at her. Then in verse 15, Jesus says, ye judge after the flesh.

I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true. Jesus knows me. And Jesus understands me. I mourn with all of you who mourn. My children and Tammy. Jesus Christ knows the truth of what happened here. Jesus Christ knows that no one was murdered in this case.

Accidental deaths happen. Suicides happen. Fatal side effects from medications happen. I have a different perspective in life because in 2002, when I was pregnant with Tylee, I died in the hospital while in labor with her. They tried to stop my labor. They put me on the table and they put something in my IV and I felt my spirit falling to the floor. I was standing near my pregnant body, watching the doctors try to revive me, which took them a few minutes. In that time, my sister Stacy was standing to my left. I turned to hug her and was surprised that her spirit was as tangible as a physical body

because I knew I was in spirit and she was in spirit. She said she needed to show me some things and we went to heaven. I later returned to my body. Because of this experience, I have access to heaven and the spirit world. Since then, I have had many communications from people now living in heaven, including my children, Tylee Ashland and Joshua Jackson, my sisters, Stacy and Lolly, my aunts and my uncles and my grandparents. I have had many communications with Jesus Christ, the savior of this world and our heavenly parents. I've had many angelic visitors have come and communicated with me and even manifested themselves to me because of these communications. I know for a fact that my children are happy and busy in the spirit world.

Because of my communications with my friend Tammy Daybell, I know that she is also very happy and extremely busy. I have always mourned the loss of my loved ones, and I have lost many in this mortal world. However, I know them more than most people. I know where they are now and what they're doing. I know how wonderful heaven is, and I'm homesick for it every single day. I know we all lived in heaven before we were born on earth, and we were all adult spirits in the heavenly realm. We chose to come to earth as mortals. Heaven is more wonderful than you can possibly imagine. I do not fear death, but I look forward

to it. I did not want to return to my body when I was out of it. Even though my son Colby, who I adored more than anything was only six years old at the time. And I was about to give birth to this new baby girl that I wanted so badly. I was a young mother and you would think I wouldn't want to leave my children. But as I stood in heaven, I did not want to go back. I thought they would be fine without me because I was peaceful and I was happy and I was home. But then I was told by Jesus that I needed to go back and complete things that I had covenanted or promised to do before I was born. This caused me a lot of distress because I knew heaven was my real home and I only wanted to be there.

I was free from pain, emotional and physical. But then I was shown how I would help my children and others in the future. So ultimately, I did agree to go back to my body. Tylee has visited me. She is happy and very busy. Tylee is free now from all the pains of her life. Tylee suffered horrible physical pain her whole life I sat with Tylee in the hospital year after year after year While she screamed in pain when the morphine wasn't even enough to take away the pain of her pancreatitis

I sat there while she cried and I held back her hair while she threw up. And I am the only person on this earth who knows how much Tylee suffered in her life. She had pain every single day. She never felt good. Her body did not work right. And I don't know if that was from complications from me dying while she was being born or something else,

but she had a very difficult life. She was sexually abused by her own biological father since she was three years old. And she was forced by family court to go visit him for 10 years against her will. I fought for her in court. I protected her. I tried to protect her with my whole life. I tried to protect her. I worried about her every single day. Tylee had to get her GED because she couldn't go to school every day because she never felt good.

She felt sick. Nobody knows this because Tylee, like myself, tries to put on a good front, tries to be a happy person, tries to have hope in life, tries to know that she's here for a purpose and that she has an eternal purpose to be on this earth. But I never stopped worrying about her. One of the times that Tylee came to me

as a spirit after she died, she said, she commanded me and she said to me, stop worrying, mom. We are fine. She knows how I worry and how I miss her. The first time JJ visited me after he passed away, he put his arm around me and he said to me, you didn't do anything wrong, mom. I love you. And I know you loved me every minute of my life. JJ, Joshua Jackson was an adult spirit.

And he was very, very tall when he put his arm around me. He is busy. He is engaged. He has jobs that he does there. And he is happy where he is. His life was short, but J's life was meaningful. JJ was a wonderful person and touched the lives of everyone. And I adored him every minute of his life. My eternal friend, Tammy Daybell has visited me on several occasions. She came to bring me peace and comfort. And I know that she is extremely busy helping her family, especially her children and grandchildren.

And I have a great love for Tammy. My beautiful children, Tylee Ashland and Joshua Jackson, rest safely this day in the arms of Jesus. My wonderful friend, Tammy Daybell rests safely this day in the arms of Jesus. And I look forward to the day when we are all reunited and I too will rest with them in the arms of my Jesus. What will be the outcome of her next

murder related trial? I always say, when you don't know a horse, look at her track record. Nancy, I don't think anyone would have seen this coming. A judge has ruled that Lori Vallow Daybell can represent herself at her two upcoming trials in Arizona. The judge's decision came just one day after two doctors agreed that Vallow is mentally fit to stand trial. The judge asked Vallow why she wanted to represent herself. She said, quote, for the past five years that I've been incarcerated, I have taken upon myself to study case law and criminal rules of procedure in the state of Idaho and Arizona, as well as federally. I have real trial experience. I have participated

in three different full trials from beginning to end. She also told the judge that she had studied family law for 10 years before her 2020 arrest. Now, the judge did warn Vallow of the dangers of not having an attorney, but Vallow said she understood and will take the risks. The trial date for the Charles Vallow murder conspiracy case is set for March 31, 2025. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.