Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Lori Vallow terrifies Hubby Charles with an "Angel waiting to Destroy you," then he's shot dead!

Episode Date: July 8, 2020

Chad and Lori Vallow Daybell facing two new felony counts of conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence in the deaths of her two children, JJ and Tylee. Today Nancy Grace talks with deceased husband Charles Vallow's lawyer who says his client told him, if anything every happened to him that Lori Vallow and her brother Alex Cox would be responsible. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. J.J. Vallow and Tylee Ryan are dead. We may have thought so all along, but now we know. We know that their remains were destroyed and buried in the backyard of cult mom Lori Vallow's new husband's home. What now? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining us right now is a very special guest. It is the practicing lawyer that represented Charles Vallow, now dead, in his divorce case against cult mom Lori Vallow. Taylor Larson. I guess this is one divorce you'll never forget, although you might want to. You say that Charles Vallow's death was not an accident and was not self-defense. Why? No, ma'am. No, ma'am. It was not self-defense. In my opinion, it was pre-planned, an ambush that took place on that fateful day in July.

Mostly because, you know, when I first met Charles and he first came into our office to discuss divorce, filing divorce from Lori, he predicted his murder and he predicted who would do it. He was very fearful of his life when he first met with us and frankly told us if anything was to happen to me, it was Lori and her brother Alex that did it. And he was very, very serious and scared for his life and scared for JJ and Tylee's lives as well. And this was back in on February 1st was the first time he came into our office. So we're talking, you know, five plus months before his demise, he predicted it in our office. And, you know, we even put that into the divorce documents, you know, and predicted

sadly the tragedy that has become to be known as this case. With me is Taylor Lawson, who represented Charles Vallow, a dad who was desperately trying to get his son, J.J., away from cult mom Lori Vallow, and he ended up shot dead doing it. I'm very curious about when you first met Charles Vallow and thereon, what he was saying about Lori Vallow. Why was he convinced she and her brother Alex were trying to kill him? She threatened his life two times over the phone, including one time telling him that she had an angel at the house waiting to dispose of his body if he came home this is while he was on a business trip in Texas trying to you know provide for the family and run the business that that they owned together and so I mean it it doesn't get any more shocking than that

when the client comes in and says hey my wife told me she's going to kill me and she also says I have an angel here to dispose of your body listen they murder me kill me she threatened to murder you yes how did she do that my bishop right there's in the car he was on the phone with me today when she said I will have you destroyed that's what she said there I can murder you now with my powers what What business did he do? I believe it had to do with financial services, such as life insurance.

And he did most of his business in California and Texas. And so during this business trip, where she called and told him that she was going to kill him and that he was Nick Schneider. He was in Texas, which was, you know, the usual and very regular for him to be there to do business during the week in Texas. She, Lori Vallow, claimed that Charles Vallow was cheating on her. Is that true? I can tell you that Charles was very, very serious about that. And he loved Lori more than anything at the time. And he denied, vehemently denied those allegations and wanted to even take a polygraph test to prove to Lori that he had not cheated on her. And he even

messaged her family members about that because he was worried that Lori was spreading these lies about him and damaging his reputation because he was always seen as such a great family man who loved Lori and loved his children and would never, ever step out of the bonds of marriage. And so he was very serious, and he wanted to take a polygraph test to try to prove it. Wow. You know, I'm sure in your business handling a lot of divorces, when a man is accused of cheating, I've never seen one accused of

cheating step up and say, hey, I'll take a polygraph. Wow. Yeah. That impresses me a lot. Yeah. And, you know, Arizona is a no-fault state, meaning that, you know, affairs don't have any relevance in the court case, in the divorce case. So there wasn't much that we could plead for in the, in the documents, uh, to state that he denied any allegations of cheating. Um, but you know, he, he said he would put his money where his mouth does. I mean, he even said that not only would he take a polygraph test, but he would put money up that if he failed it, he would give her straight money in cash. Wow. And that's how strongly he felt about those allegations and was, you know, I am not a cheater is what he would say.

And he said that to me numerous times. When you're in the middle of a divorce, the other side, even though Arizona is no fault, which means if you want a divorce, you're going to get a divorce. It doesn't matter who cheated, who got drunk and wrecked the car. It doesn't matter. You want a divorce? You got it. So claims of cheating are irrelevant to a divorce in that jurisdiction. But when somebody claims infidelity,

don't you know that the other side is going to dig and dig and dig until they find that mistress. And as of right now, no mistress has ever been found. Right. Absolutely. I haven't, I've just seen some of the accusations and allegations you know that laurie has thrown through her family members to the media but again where's these text

messages where's these money trails you know where's the emails because we certainly have lots of emails and things in writing from Lori to Chad, but I haven't seen anything from Charles to anybody. And you know that Lori had all access to Charles's accounts. You know, she used his Amazon account to buy the wedding ring for her and Chad. Uh, so she had access to all those emails. So I would believe that, you know, in my opinion, that would come out here, uh, you know, kind of prove it here. Yeah, I mean, emails, texts, money trail, buying flowers, buying jewelry, all that. We have none of that. And no woman has come forward and said, hey, I'm the, I'm the mistress. And at this juncture,

I really believe somebody would have ratted her out if she existed. So he comes in and tells you he's afraid he's going to get killed by Lori Vallow and Alex Cox, her brother. And you know, Alex Cox has a history. He attacked her last husband, Joe Ryan. Remember that? With a taser. Absolutely. And did jail time for it. And in that case, Alex Cox told Joseph Ryan, I'm going to kill you. And he attacked him with a taser. In this case, your client ends up dead. What was your client, Charles Vallow's concern about the children being with Lori Vallow, cult mom? The main concern was that she was mentally unstable, not able to make clear decisions for the children. Not only had he been threatened by her over the phone, but she had also told him that he could have the kids, that she didn't want anything to do with them because she had a more important mission to carry out. And the kids were seen as a burden to

her. It didn't allow her, especially, you know, JJ, who was special needs and you know required more attention than you know someone who doesn't have special needs a child and especially at his age you know a younger child too so Charles was very worried because she just wanted to toss the kids by the wayside so to speak you know I I didn't realize she actually said that that she wanted to give him the children because she didn't want to be bothered with them anymore that they got in the way of her mission isn't it true that on one occasion your client, Charles Vallow, told you that she went to Hawaii and was gone for weeks on end and never texted or called or even checked on the children? Yes. Yes, we, during the divorce, we could not get a hold of Lori because, you know, as you know, Nancy, to initiate the divorce, you have to serve her with, number one, the divorce petition,

but also, number two, the order of protection that we advised Charles to go and obtain to try to afford him some protection from her. He obtained an order of protection, and we tried to serve her numerous times throughout the entire time that we represented Charles but we couldn't find her we tried at Alex's house we tried at her parents house we tried at some of her friends house houses here in the Phoenix area we even sent a process server up to Boise Idaho because we thought that she would be appearing at one of these, uh, a vow preparing a people conferences with, uh, that where there were going

to be scheduled speakers there. And she ended up not even being there, even though she made hotel reservations under Charles's name in Boise. And now we know we now know after all this has happened just in the last few months and, you know, the timelines kind of unfolded that she was in Hawaii with Tylee. But at the time, we had no idea where she was. And we were trying to find her just to be able to serve her so that the divorce could go through, number one, and number two, that the odor protection would be put in place and valid. Where was JJ at that time?

JJ was with Charles. When Charles got home from Texas, I believe the body cam footage just came out that showed when he got there how Lori had changed the locks on the house, had taken everything in the house, including Charles' underwear and his clothes. His laptop had taken JJ and Bailey, the service dog for JJ, and was not communicating with Charles until a few days later she said, come get JJ. Or what she said was, I'm going to drop JJ off at school tomorrow. You can pick him up. I don't want anything to do with him. He tried to put JJ on the order of protection as a protected person, meaning that, you know, the order of protection as a protected person, meaning that the order of protection

was between Laurie and Charles and that Laurie could not contact Charles or come in the vicinity of Charles. He tried to put JJ on that order of protection as a protected person so that Laurie could not come and get JJ if she changed her mind or you know went to the school and picked him up and absconded with him. Charles was very fearful that Lori was going to take JJ and run and so unfortunately the court did not allow JJ to stay on the order of protection as a protected person and only had Charles on there.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm going to kill you or anything like that. She didn't say she was going to kill herself or anything like that. No. Just some of her... The rational statements about calling him a different name and saying he was a different person, there was a level of disconnect from reality that was a bit disturbing. But that was, again, but that was again that was just that's

just my impression joining us right now is a very special guest it is the practicing lawyer that represented charles vallow now dead in his divorce case against cult mom lori vallow taylor larson Valerie Vallow Taylor Larson did Charles Vallow know that Lori Vallow was cheating on him with Chad Daybell he definitely had some suspicions that she was cheating he never told me who he suspected but he did send me some communications between chad and lori that he had found and i believe that was when he started to try to put the puzzle together he did tell me that this all started you know years prior when l Lori had a near-death experience when they were living in Hawaii, and she became fascinated. And if you read, you know, some of the divorce pleadings that we put in there, she became infatuated and at times obsessive over some of those near-death experiences and was listening to podcasts about other members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who had near-death experiences and had, you know, allegedly

had visions of the spirit world and could communicate with those on the other side of the veil. Charles told me that she would read books over and over about it. She would listen to podcasts nonstop. And she just was gravitating towards these type of people and these groups. And that's how she found Chad Daybell, because most of his books are about that. You're talking about her getting, let me just say, becoming enthralled with her cult, as it turned out to be. But it started with a near-death experience. What was the near-death experience? What happened? Charles just told me that she had a near-death experience in Hawaii when they were living there.

And ever since then, she became a different person. He, you know, it wasn't like an overnight type of deal. It was over a period of time that he could see that the, the woman that he was married to, uh, was changing and becoming a different person. And I will tell you that throughout the entirety of the divorce proceedings he just thought that this was just a bad dream and that he would wake up one day and you know the lori that he knew and loved and married 13 years prior would just be there again and you know he he really thought that she was having some mental distress and that she just needed some medication and some help throughout

the entire time that I communicated with him he was always very emotional about it and just wanted this to wanted it to be back to the to what it was before this all started earlier you stated that the divorce was dismissed we never were able to serve lori we we were we did ask the court to allow us to serve her through an alternative means, meaning through email or mailing it to her last known address. But we never got an answer from the court before we dismissed the case. Charles asked to dismiss the case because he just couldn't get over the fact that she had abandoned him and JJ and he still loved her. And he held hope that that someday she would wake up from this and come back to him. I mean, he he just really loved her and the family.

And he couldn't he couldn't go through with the divorce anymore, mostly because she had become, you know, she had, she was gone. We didn't know where she was. She was not communicating with him. And so he thought, why am I getting a divorce if she's already just leaving me alone? And, you know, I want to hold out hope for the future that we can be still become a family again. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining us right now is a very special guest. It is the practicing lawyer that represented

Charles Vallow now dead in his divorce case against cult mom Lori Vallow Taylor Larson if the divorce had proceeded what would have happened to JJ entirely the court here in Arizona did not have jurisdiction over Tylee in our divorce proceeding because Tylee was not common to the parties, meaning that Charles had not adopted Tylee and that her bio father, Joseph, you know, I know he was passed. But because Charles was not Tylee's legal guardian or father, the court had no jurisdiction over her. But for JJ, we asked that the court gave Charles sole legal decision making. We were hopeful. And with all of these salacious allegations, I felt very strongly that the court would grant that.

Why do you think Lori Vallow would have wanted Charles Vallow, your client, dead? There was a million reasons why she wanted Charles Vallow dead. Because there was a life insurance policy on Charles' life for a million dollars that she knew about and that she thought she was the beneficiary of. And after Charles was killed by her brother, Alex, she found out she was not the beneficiary. Can you describe what you know of that? While we were talking to Charles at the beginning of our representation during the divorce, he was very, very scared for his life and believed that Lori was up to something with her brother Alex and that he was close to having to deal with Alex showing up to try to kill him. And so when that happens in a divorce,

usually we wait till towards the end of the divorce where we will advise our client to make sure that they change the beneficiary of any estate planning documents, such as a trust or a will or life insurance. And so when Charles started talking about this with us at the beginning we thought well you need to go change the beneficiary of your life insurance policy right away and he said absolutely

and I want the beneficiary to be Kay Woodcock my sister because I know that if she got the money she would use it to take care of JJ and so a couple days went by and Charles contacts me and says hey I just tried to change the life insurance beneficiary to to Kay and guess what Someone put a password on my account. I've never had a password on my account ever. And the life insurance company said that someone had called and represented themselves as Charles and put a password on the account just days prior to Charles calling and trying to change the beneficiary. And it was a big nightmare and mess for him to try to change that back. And he said in an email to me,

if anything happens to me before the beneficiary is changed and this gets all ironed out with the life insurance company, please know that I want all of the life insurance proceeds to go to Kay Woodcock, my sister. That is damning. If I die before I can change it, you've got to know I want it to go to my sister Kay. So it seems as if the clock was running. How many days after that communication was he killed that communication took place at

the end of february so we're talking four and a half months um for it to happen and i never knew if charles was able to change the beneficiary completely and get that all ironed out with the life insurance policy until after his death when i learned that he had and that k was the beneficiary and that laurie was not very happy with it as you can imagine i'm just thinking back through all the communications that charles told you about with cult mom Lori Vallow I read a lot about it and what parts of the divorce papers that I've been able to read what do you believe Taylor Lawson is the most significant threat or communication Lori Vallow made to Charles the most significant one to me and the one that always stuck out to me and made the hair on the back of my

neck stand up when he told me was when she told him over the phone if you come home I'm going to kill you and I have an angel here to dispose of your body obviously that type of allegation we hear allegations all the time in divorce law right a lot it's a very emotionally driven type of law you know these people are at their worst and there's a lot of hate flowing between each other but never have I ever heard of a threat so clear and so just heinous and the fact that she thought that she could have an angel there at her beckoning call to dispose the body

and presumably dispose of the evidence why do you believe charles valo went over to laur Lori Vallow's that day that he was shot? I believe that Charles did that because he loved JJ more than anything in this world. And I know that at the time, Charles was living in Texas away from JJ while JJ was here in Arizona with Lori. And I know that Charles wanted to spend time with his, with his son. And, you know, I, I've heard that it, that he was intending on taking JJ to breakfast that day before he took him to school. And, you know, unfortunately he, he didn't ever make it to that breakfast. Do you believe or have you been told that police are close to charging Lori Vallow with Charles's

murder? I have not been told anything. I would hope so i i do believe that the the motive is clear that this was an intent to to kill this wasn't an self-defense this was a premeditated plan to Guys, let me pause one moment to thank you for joining us on Crime Stories with Nancy Grace every day. You know, if you ever miss an episode, you can download the program Crime Stories with Nancy Grace as a free podcast on your favorite podcast app. Or you can go to CrimeOnline.com, scroll down and punch the podcast. It's easy and free. If you're listening to your favorite podcast app, you can get not only the latest episode from that very day, you can go back in time and hear all the previous episodes. You can catch up on the most important investigations, dive into cold cases with us, or research a missing person. Go to CrimeOnline.com slash podcast right now and start listening.

Join the investigation. Subscribe to the podcast so new episodes will be delivered right to your phone. That's awesome. And please leave us a review so we know what you think of our program, Crime Stories, and leave us tips, ideas of cases you'd like us to cover. We listen. It's CrimeOnline.com slash podcast. Repeat, CrimeOnline.com slash podcast. Thanks, guys, for joining us. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining us right now is a very special guest it is the practicing lawyer that represented charles

vallow now dead in his divorce case against cult mom lori vallow taylor larson i just don't understand the logistics of what happened because by lori vallow's statement, your client, Charles Vallow, came over, got into an argument with Alex Cox, hit Alex Cox in the back of the head, but your client was shot twice in the chest. Right. And that doesn't fit together for me logistically. How did he get hit in the back of the head and then in self-defense turn around and shoot him twice in the chest? Or if gunshot powder residue tests were taken that day on Lori Vallow and Alex Cox or on your client's chest. Was it a contact wound?

We don't know what happened. And the physicality, what we're learning from forensics, does not jive with what Alexlex cox and lori vallis said happened i think another important part of that is that alex cox on the body cam footage even says he hit me in the back of the head with a bat then i went into my room he went back into his room to grab the gun and then came back out and shot charles twice in the chest How is that self-defense? Under the law, that turns Alex Cox into the aggressor. But Lori Vallow says she was in the kitchen the whole time, which I find very difficult to believe.

Yeah, I don't believe that for a fact. I think there were two different stories she told police, one where she had already taken JJj one where she was in the kitchen and alex said that same same thing i think he changed his story twice too saying that laurie was home at the beginning and then saying that she was gone also taking jj to school in charles's car no less the car that char drove there, his rental car, drove to Lori's house. She went and got into his car while he was fighting with Alex.

I don't believe that. But then also Tylee states to police that after the shooting is when JJ was taken to school. Yeah, it just, it doesn't make sense to me. It never has. But I will tell you, when I first learned of Charles's murder, it was a few weeks after the shooting. I didn't see it in the news at first.

And then I was contacted by a family member of Charles who told me. And right away, as soon as she told me that Charles had been shot and killed, I said, was it Alex? And she said, yes. And I said, has he been arrested? And she said, no. And I said, has he been arrested? And she said, no. And I said, how is that possible? And she said, well, he's claiming it was self-defense. And I said, there's no way it was self-defense.

It was preplanned. And this was before I knew any of the facts of what happened on that day. I'm wondering if Lori Vallow lured Charles over that day. I've wondered that too, mostly because I don't know why Charles would go into the house to have a discussion with Lori, especially with Alex there. Just a few months beforehand, Charles is telling me, hey, if anything happens to me, it's Alex who killed me. And Lori, you know know is behind that so if he knew that alex and laurie were in the house i don't believe that he would have went in uh and if he was just there to pick up jj why does he need to go into the house you know what kind of a hole did laurie valo have over her brother alex she's referred to him as her hitman he attacked her other husband now Charles Vallow and Vallow is dead many people believe he shot at Brandon Boudreau for Lori Vallow and possibly

shot at Tammy Daybell for Lori Vallow what kind of hold does she have over him? Yeah, it's a very good question. And I don't know if we'll ever get the answer because Alex is dead. But I will tell you that Charles, when he first came into our office, he met with the managing partner of our firm, Steve Ellsworth. And Charles told Steve in the initial consultation that Alex was Lori's destroying angel and that he was there to protect her at all costs. Well, it all fits together for me because Lori Vallow told your client, if you come home, I'm going to kill you. And I've got an angel here to dispose of your body. On a previous incident, she had referred to Alex Cox, her brother, as her, quote, destroying angel. So that's the angel that was going to get rid of his body. I agree 100 percent. We have a man here in Charles who is an ultimate family man who loved his family more than anything and would do anything for them.

And he predicted what would happen to not only himself, but also to the children months prior to it all happening. You know, he was very concerned about Tylee's, her safety, as well as JJ's. It was unfortunate that through the court system here in Arizona we could only try to to protect JJ but I will tell you that Charles was very very fearful of what was going to happen to Tylee as well and he loved Tylee as his own what did he say was going to happen to the children well he didn't specifically ever say that lori would would do anything to harm them just that she had inferred that the children were a burden and that she if anybody got in her way of her mission she would dispose of them and so it was more of a you know if she has the kids

she's number one not going to think of their best interest she's going to be obsessed with with the end of times and preparing the 144,000 over the children and and not care for them and the fact that JJ is special needs and takes you know needs special care she wasn't going to be able to provide that I don't know if Charles ever thought that she would harm the children in a way or, you know, but he was very fearful that if she was going to have the children in her care, that they were not going to be safe. Taylor Larson, associate attorney with Ellsworth Family Law. I've got a feeling you're going to end up as the state's witness at some point.

No attorney wants to ever be a witness at a murder trial for one of their clients. But in this situation, I think that that's as close to justice as we can get for Charles. Thank you so much for being with us, Taylor. This is an iHeart Podcast.