Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Love Rival Pushes Alabama Mom Off Cliff to Her Death: COPS

Episode Date: August 4, 2023

An Alabama mom, missing for months, is found dead in Little River Canyon National Preserve. Mary Elizabeth Isbell, who also went by Beth Wright, hadn’t been seen since October 2021. Her ex-husband reported Isbell as missing after she didn’t call their son at Christmas. A tip led police to the body and a suspect.     Two women have been charged in this case.    Joining Nancy Grace Today: James Shelnutt – Attorney – The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; 27-year Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective and Former S.W.A.T. Officer; Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm Dr. Bethany Marshall – Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills, CA); New Netflix show: ‘Bling Empire’ (Beverly Hills); Twitter: @DrBethanyLive   Christopher Byers – Former Police Chief Johns Creek Georgia, 25 years as Police Officer, now Private Investigator and Polygraph Examiner with Lancaster Information Services in Atlanta Dr. Michelle DuPre – Forensic Pathologist, Medical Examiner and Detective: Lexington County Sheriff’s Department; Author: “Homicide Investigation Field Guide” & “Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide;” Forensic Consultant Savannah Sapp- Multimedia Journalist and Reporter for WAFF48 in Alabama; Twitter: @Savannah Sapp, Instagram: @savannahsapp.tv, Facebook:SavannahSappWAFF48   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young mom suddenly goes missing. Or did she? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at W-A-A-Y.

A mother is desperately searching for her daughter tonight, gone without a trace. She explains the last time anyone saw Mary Isbell and her worst fears about where she might be. Debbie Wood is heartbroken to say the least. Her daughter, Mary Elizabeth Isbell, has been missing since November 23rd. Part of me wants to believe she's still here. The other part says get ready for a funeral. Can you even imagine that as a mother? You think all your love, all your time, all your energy,

all your money, your hard work, literally blood, sweat, and tears into raising your child. And then suddenly you don't know if they're dead or alive where they are seemingly this girl uh mary isbell vanishes into thin air not a trace left behind that's really rare in our world uh first i want to go straight out to James Shelnut, high-profile lawyer joining us from the Shelnut firm. 27 years in Metro Major case and SWAT, and you can find him at ShelnutLawFirm.com. When I say that's really odd because we all leave some sort of a trace. I mean, if you looked at my nav on my minivan, you'd see the triangle, home, school, grocery store, church, home, school, grocery store, just over and over and over again. That leaves a trace. That leaves a trail. Cell phones, social media, you name it. We leave traces as to where we've been, what we're doing.

But seemingly, Mary Ispel just vanished, and the mom has no idea where her daughter is. Can you even imagine that? No, and you're right. I mean, normally there's some evidence. You can find something somewhere. You know, a lot of times there actually is a piece of evidence and some trace, but it just takes a while for law enforcement to locate that.

Yeah, yeah, it takes a minute. I'm looking at a shot of Mary Isbell right now, and I got to tell you, she looks like a beauty queen. I mean, big, beautiful smile, perfect teeth, perfect smile, the long blonde hair, great figure. Joining me right now is Savannah Sapp, multimedia journalist, reporter at WAFF48. Savannah, thanks for being with us. I mean, she looks like the homecoming queen and Miss Sweet Potato wrapped all together in one. What do we know about Mary Ispel?

Well, one thing is for sure that she is a loving mother and a loving sister. Mary Ispel Wright had three older sisters, I believe. And once she was reported missing, from what I've seen on social media, it is amazing how they jumped in together to find her. But she was family-oriented, and like you said, Nancy, beautiful woman and a loving mother as well. Loving mother to a young son. Dr. Bethany Marshall joining me. Renowned psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Hills

at drbethanymarshall.com. Dr. Bethany, thanks for being with us. The not knowing, the not knowing what happened, that is tortuous. And I got to tell you something, Dr. Bethany, I didn't like what I knew about what happened to my fiance, Keith, who was murdered. But I knew. I knew that he was dead. I didn't go to sleep every night wondering, can I help him? Can I find him? Will he be found? Is he

suffering? What is happening to him? Is there any way I can save him? The not knowing has got to be excruciating. Nancy, you've heard me say this over and over again. In the face of the unknown, we read our worst possible fears.

And there's an evolutionary basis for that. When we were developing sort of millennia ago, when we didn't know where the predator was, we had less of a chance of survival. So now in our modern day world, when we don't know what happened, we become more anxious. Now, have you heard families when they have a lost loved one say, I just want them to bring my daughter home, dead or alive, I just want her home. And you think it's so interesting, it's less, I mean, obviously they want their loved one to be alive, but primarily they want to know what happened to that person. If you've got the imaginations run, and I think with everything we know about crime and all the stories that you expose, the worst possible fear is that person is being tortured and kidnapped and held somewhere. And then there's the thought that every second, every second that ticks by

is a precious second. Dr. Bethany, I don't think I've ever told you this, but for a long time after my fiance Keith was murdered, the dreams were not necessarily about his death the dreams were about him still being alive and me trying to find him that in the dream I would know something horrible was happening but he was still alive for instance um I would find out let's just pretend he was at 43 New York City Avenue and I would be looking of let's just pretend he was at 43 New York City Avenue, and I would be looking. Of course, it would always be at night, and there would be streetlights,

and I'd be trudging along this road, and there'd be 41, 42, 44. And I would look. I'd go back to try to find 43, and I could never find, I could hear his voice, and I could hear music, or I could hear conversation and laughter, and I'd be trying to find it. And then I'd wake up thinking he's still alive, jump out of the bed, literally start running toward the door to try to help. And then it would hit me wait wait he's i can't help him there's nothing i can do so that not knowing whether this woman this gorgeous mom mary elizabeth isbell right is dead or alive i can't even imagine that much less for the son. She has a boy. Well, Nancy, you were having trauma dreams, and I'm sure this mother is having nightmares of her own.

And you and I have talked about this so many times that in the face of the unknown, we read our worst possible fears. It's almost better to know if the person's dead or alive than to not know at all. Because if we don't know what's happened to the lost loved one, we imagine them being held. We imagine them being tortured. We imagine minutes and seconds just ticking by and us standing by helpless. So many families say, I just want my, bring my child home. I hope they bring him home or her home. And what they really mean is dead or alive. They want to know what happened. We have a need to know. Nancy, there's a strong evolutionary biological basis for this. Our ancestors had a better chance of survival if they knew where the danger was coming from and they could get away from it.

But if they didn't know, their chances of survival lowered. And I think it's the same with these lost person cases that when we know there's a better chance of survival for the victim. Guys, the search is on for this woman, her mom desperately wanting answers. Take a listen to our friend, Nikkel Williams, W-A-A-Y. Police say they first received reports of Isabel being gone in January. Now we can't find her. Typically, you know, we don't have adults go missing this long or make contact with a family member within two or three months. So this is abnormal.

You know, it's super irritating and sometimes devastating contact with a family member within two or three months. So this is abnormal. You know what's super irritating and sometimes devastating to a missing person case? Have you ever noticed Chris Byers, Christopher Byers, former police chief, Johns Creek, 25 years in LA law enforcement, now private investigator and polygrapher with Lancaster Information Services. Chris, thank you for being with us. When an adult goes missing, I've seen it happen with juveniles as well. When cops say, no offense, she'll turn up. She's just off with her new boyfriend. Well, guess what? Typically, there's not a new boyfriend. And I will never forget when that was said about Stacey Peterson, a mom of, I think, three, who just vanished. Of course,

you got to consider the source in that one, Chris. That was Drew Peterson, her cop husband, saying, oh, she just ran off with her lover. They're having an affair, you know, trying to drag her through the mud. Well, she's dead. Her body has never been found. He just got convicted for the murder of his third wife, Kathleen Savio. Meanwhile, Stacey Peterson, body still missing. But I can tell you that she did not run off with a sex interest. There was no lover. There was no boyfriend. Drew Peterson killed her. And that is one example of the theory, oh, she ran off with fill in the blank.

It's not true. And I'm just wondering how much that played into the missing persons report of Mary Elizabeth Eastbell. Yeah, it definitely is one of the things that I am very critical of my fellow officers in my profession and as a public information officer for about 12 years. It just seems to be that within law enforcement, there is this tendency to downplay these missing person cases on adults. It's definitely a pitfall that law enforcement needs to be aware of. But yes, I agree with you. It is a trend that I see all too often throughout my career, and it is extremely frustrating.

And you lose such valuable time while the missing person is, quote, off with a new boyfriend. I don't like it, especially when you have a child involved. I mean, there is no way, just let me put it on the record, I would ever willingly, no way in H-E-Louble-L, willingly leave my twins. Ever. No matter what. I don't need me time. I don't need to go sit in a mud bath somewhere.

I don't need those hot rocks put on my back. I don't need a girls weekend. Don't. I don't need to go check in to some hotel and read and watch movies. I'm fine. And I believe that's how most mothers feel regarding, they may need some time out, but leaving your children, that's not going to happen. Nancy, if I could jump in about that. Could I stop you?

Could I stop you? Go ahead. Guys, you're hearing Dr. Bethany Marshall. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Michelle Dupree is with us, who is uncharacteristically quiet right now. She shot to the front of public consciousness during the Alex Murdoch double murder trial. Dr. Dupree, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former detective and author of, literally wrote the book, Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Dr. Dupree, jump in.

Okay, Dr. Bethany, what? Well, if a mother is going to abandon a child, which is very rare, chances are she abandoned the child from birth or she has a history of not being bonded. Oh, you mean like a cat, how they have a litter out under the deck of the back of the house and then they just disappear and you find the cats and have to take care of them? That's it.

Yeah, okay. What do you call that? I'm sure you have a very fancy psychoanalyst term for acting like a cat. Well, it's pretty simple. We say lack of maternal bonding. I like acting like a cat better, but, you know, you say tomato, I say tomato. So here, there was not that at all no lack of bonding with the sun that's right so guys how did the whole thing go down when do we

realize that mary eastbell is missing take a listen to nick brown chief investigator out of alabama mary was reported reported missing by her ex-husband to Hartsville Police Department, and that was December 27th. They started working the case, and they determined through phone records that Mary was living in our area, in DeKalb County at the time, on Lookout Mountain.

And we picked up the case I received the phone call from one of the lead investigators at Hartsell. Wood says she stopped by the house that day. I called my husband Danny at work and they left Hartsell and headed home. He called police because we really didn't know at the time who it was and by the time he got there the police because we really didn't know at the time who it was. And by the time he got there, the police was gone, but they were up the road and no more sign of Bea. So let me understand what happened. First of all, we know that this is Lookout Mountain area in Alabama, DeKalb County, Alabama. Savannah Sapp is with us, WAFF48.

Tell me about the area. Let's just start with that. Well, Nancy, the area of DeKalb County is filled with beautiful mountains, but it's pretty much, for the most part, rural. You have areas like Fort Payne, Henniger, you know, all of the surrounding areas, including Lookout Mountain, are pretty quiet, pretty serene.

And it's interesting to note that Mary Elizabeth Isbell was reported missing in Hartville, but was found to be living in DeKalb County, which is about, I would say, around two hours east of Hartville. So it was kind of jarring for all of us to learn that she was in DeKalb County or supposedly in DeKalb County this entire time or was living there for a short period of time. Where in Alabama is DeKalb County? And look at Mountain. Where is that exactly? If you're looking at Huntsville, the Tennessee Valley area, Fort Payne in DeKalb County is going to be the northeastern

side of Alabama, right under the Tennessee state line. Now in the Lookout Mountain area in Alabama, population is about 2,000. Very similar to where I grew up in rural Bibb County in Georgia. And I can tell you about this area specifically. I've been there many, many times because in Huntsville, not that far away, there is a huge scout center, a national Boy Scout Center. I believe, isn't it, James Shelnut joining us, isn't there also a NASA structure there as well, a NASA center? Yeah, there's a NASA center in Huntsville and not in Little River Canyon. So she said that she mentioned the Huntsville area, it's very, very mountainous. And every road is very circuitous. It's hard to really get anywhere. And that adds to the difficulty of the search in this case. So where is Elizabeth Beth Isbell seemingly vanishing into thin air. Take a listen again to Nick Brown, Chief Investigator.

Parcel PD had began working. They put her in DeKalb County by phone records. Through those phone records, we determined some of the people that she was speaking with at the time of her disappearance. We were pretty sure that it happened between October and November of 2021. Through those phone records, we were able to track down a few people and talk to them and determine where she was living. We recovered physical evidence from her home that showed signs of a struggle. And we knew that at that time that it was a crime scene. Wow. That progressed pretty quickly. So they did all this. The investigators here who are keeping everything very close to the vest, they find where she was living through phone records. They then analyze the phone records and determine to whom she is speaking the most.

That's how they find her friends, people she's talking to all the time. And isn't this right? James Shelnut, high profile lawyer joining us out of this jurisdiction. You can also ping the phone. You can determine how long conversations last, but you look for recurring numbers, who the individual is speaking with the most, how often those calls were made. But you have to go through a subpoena. The phone company is not the friend of police or prosecutors.

You have to go through, jump a lot of hurdles to get these phone records. And then what do you do with those phone records and the information you get from them? Well, you're 100% correct. They're not the friend of law enforcement a lot of the times. You do have to force them to turn that information over. Of course, there's a lot of privacy laws, but once you get those phone records, you essentially develop what's more or less a spreadsheet and determine how often, like you said, they've called these people, what type of contact they've had, how frequent it is. And that's so important because in a missing person's case or

some other type of case like that, where you're looking for someone, you want to start with the people closest to them and speak with those people first, the people who they've had the most recent contact with, that they've had the most contact with, including family and friends, and then work your way further out of that circle. Yeah. So often we say, what's taking so long? Well, this is what's taking so long. Somebody vanishes into thin air and you have to subpoena their phone documents and then start structuring what was happening around the last time they were seen. Now, we know that the mother goes to where her daughter's living.

Nobody there. She calls police. But the woman, Beth Elizabeth Eastbelt, is first reported by her ex, reported missing. And frankly, Dr. Bethany Marshall, when you have someone report the individual missing, that tends to indicate they didn't have anything to do with it. Oh, Nancy, you're absolutely right. But occasionally, there's the husband or the boyfriend who once they find out their partner's missing, and they failed to report, they're the ones that go out and hand out the flyers, walk around the neighborhood crying, they go on air and say, Oh, I'm trying to find, I'm trying to find Mary or Elizabeth or whoever, and they're the ones who did it.

So if it's the perpetrator, they tend to jump in after the fact in a very dramatic way. If it's somebody who's really innocent and has nothing to do with the crime, they are the first ones to go forward. And they're usually the first ones to notice because in this case, this was her former husband. This was the father of that teenager whose mother didn't call on Christmas, on his birthday. They said she always called during very important holidays and seasons. And she was remarkably absent during those important times. So they felt the absence there. That says that this man is not the perpetrator, clearly. And of course, Dr. Michelle Dupree, you've seen a lot of dead bodies going to many,

many homicide scenes and conducting literally thousands of autopsies. I, and this is not based on statistics, this is anecdotal. I often see the husband or the boyfriend calling when they, quote, find the body. Not when the person is missing and nobody's found the body yet, but when they find the body. Let's just talk about Murdoch again. He's the one that called 911 when he, quote, found Maggie and his son Paul dead. Of course, he killed them. But when they find the body or ostensibly find the body, they call. When the person is just missing, I don't see those calls coming from the love interest as much. Nancy, I think you're absolutely right. And, you know, anytime there is a suspicion of foul play, the husband or the wife or the boyfriend or girlfriend is always

one of the first suspects. And whoever finds that person is always one of the first suspects as well, because that's a way to keep themselves involved in the investigation and try to throw off law enforcement. Big red flag. When they get to Elizabeth's home, they find signs of a struggle. Listen to our friends at WHNT. Investigators gave us a good bit of insight today into how they got to this point in the case. It's brutal. It's a lot of evil. From the beginning, Chief Investigator Nick Brown says they felt something was wrong in the missing persons case of Mary Elizabeth Isbell. We recovered physical evidence from her home that showed signs of a struggle. And we knew at that time that it was a crime scene. Wow, you know it's a crime scene, you find signs of a struggle, but what did they find?

Take a listen to our friend Nikkel Williams. And if I had to get her body back, I'd rather have her alive. But my fear is she's not this anymore. Debbie Woods says police checked out DeKalb County where Isabel lived.

They found her driver's license and her social security card, but not her. If you know anything about where she might be, call authorities. So where are you going to go in life as an adult without your driver's license or your social security card? That's what they found, leading them to believe she went nowhere willingly plus they say they found evidence of a crime savannah sap joining us waff 48 do we know what suggested a crime had been committed what did they find in her home well nancy to my understanding um just from the times that i've spoken to investigators they investigated her residence where she was said to have been living at the time, and as well as the vehicle she was driving.

You know, they described that they had found physical evidence. They would never, you know, disclose what that physical evidence was, but they did enter it into a database, came up with no matches. But from what investigators saw at her residence and in her vehicle, there were signs of a struggle, quoting Chief Investigator Nick Brown. Signs of a struggle. But then, as we were talking earlier about the ex-husband, the father of the teen boy, reporting Elizabeth missing. Then all eyes began to focus on the new boyfriend.

Take a listen to our friends at WAAY 31. Her mother says she was in a new but troubled relationship. They were always fighting. And then it's like, poof, he's gone. Don't know where he's at. I finally get to talk to him, and he said, he didn't know she was missing. Now her only wish is that someone who knows anything will just come forward. I need my baby girl.

Okay, that's not good. When your boyfriend disappears right after you disappear, how many times, Christopher Byers, former police chief, Johns Creek, have we seen that happen? The boyfriend just disappears. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It happens more times than not. And even the FBI would call that a clue that you need to start to circle in. Even the FBI.

Even the FBI would call that a clue. So, yeah, it's time to start looking hard at him. But then, amazingly, he takes the call from Mary Elizabeth Isbell's mother and tells her how what? She's missing? Okay, I don't believe that either. How could he not know the girlfriend is missing? But he did take the call, so he is reachable. But then out of the blue, a turn in the case. Listen to Emily Forrester,

WHNT. For a year and a half, they tracked down leads, but nothing came to fruition. Investigators say they got a new credible tip last Tuesday that matched some of their early findings. The tip that came in was some of the names I was looking at at that time. So that kind of re-sparked an interest in those certain people. Well, right there, that tells me that the tip that they get a year, over a year after Elizabeth East Bell goes missing, matches up. He says people that they were looking at earlier. Does that mean somebody on that call list from her cell phone? Okay, take a listen again to WHNT.

Once was very cooperative and helped us to lead to Mary's remains where we recovered them Wednesday. They were actually confirmed today to be Mary Elizabeth. And it's no better day for it than on her birthday. Brown says it appears Isabel died from being thrown off a cliff in Little River Canyon National Park. Thrown off a cliff. Beth Isbell is not missing. She's dead. Thrown off a cliff.

You know, Dr. Bethany Marshall's psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills, I've seen a lot of homicides. But it takes a certain, let me just say mindset, to push somebody off a cliff? Nancy, this is so cruel and heinous. I can't even find the words. I'm just imagining whoever the perpetrator or perpetrators are apprehending this poor woman, kidnapping her, clutching her, picking picking her up throwing her off the cliff the rage that went into this you know we cover homicides where there are you know multiple stabbings where there are you know where women are are raped choked beaten but thrown off a cliff takes a unique type of rage towards the victim exactly n, Nancy. Wait, who is this? Dr. Michelle Dupree? Yes. Can you imagine her last moments? I cannot. And this is something

very personal, Nancy. You have to touch that person. And you have to know that you are up close and personal. It's not like shooting a gun from a distance. This was very personal to push or shove someone off a cliff. I wonder if she was lured there, if she was forced there. How did she get to the top of a cliff to be shoved off? And how do we know she didn't slip and fall? Guys, now take a listen to this. Investigators made the first arrest in the case Sunday and announced the second suspect Friday. One of the co-defendants was very cooperative and helped us to lead to Mary's remains where we recovered them Wednesday. Several factors led them to charge the suspects with capital murder.

This case meets the criteria not only by kidnapping but by multiple other statutes that bring in the Capitol. So it's very unhuman, very unhuman and brutal what these ladies done to Mary. What these ladies, what these ladies did to Mary? What ladies? Listen to Mary? What ladies? Listen to our friends, WHNT. A mother and daughter now facing capital murder charges and the death of a woman investigators believe was pushed off a cliff.

The DeKalb County Sheriff's Office says Mary Elizabeth Isbell has been missing since late 2021. Her remains were found two days ago in Little River Canyon National Park and identified today on what would have been her 39th birthday. Two women are charged with capital murder in her death now, Loretta Carr and Carr's daughter, Jessie Eden Kelly. They are all acquaintances, mainly to a boyfriend. So I can't give too much details on that right now, but they all do come back to one

specific person. Okay. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Please tell me, Savannah Sapp, WAFF48, that these two women, a mother and a daughter, did not push Elizabeth Isbell off a cliff over a man. According to investigators, Nancy, they did. And it's interesting to me that, you know, one of the defendants is basically being very, very cooperative with investigators, while the other is filing motions in court saying there's not enough evidence to charge her. It's very interesting, you know, that there's kind of two sides to this. They're both kind of pitted against each other. So you've got one ratting out the other, and the two co-defendants are mother and daughter. I mean, I've seen a lot. But to murder this gorgeous young mom

by throwing her off a cliff over a man, no offense to the men on the panel right now, but I remember my grandmother on my father's side would say, they're all alike. You know, they just look different. Plus, I knew it would come along every 15 minutes like a bus. So they commit murder in a heinous fashion over a man. Now, the man has not been named yet by authorities, but I'm looking at a photo right now posted by the elder Carr, the mother, Loretta Ray Carr, age 43, posing at a National Preserve with her then-fiancee,

Robert Mitchum, not the actor. He appears to be much younger than her, and he has blue hair. Now, is this the guy that they were fighting about? That they throw a young mother off a cliff over him? Is he the one? We don't know yet, but I'm looking at this photo of the mom car with this young guy, big smile, and they're, interestingly, at a national preserve. Then I'm looking at another photo of the mom car wearing the same shirt, which indicates to me the same day, possibly, and lo and behold, Savannah Sapp, it's Loretta K. Carr posting a photo to Facebook. She did this to herself. I didn't go looking for it. It's right there.

And she is at the spot where Elizabeth Eastbell's body was found. Hello? She's posting a shot of herself. It's a selfie. And you can see this deep, deep cliff behind her. And she posted it on Facebook. Help me. Is this true, Savannah Sapp?

Yes, this is absolutely true. And when I stumbled across it doing my own investigative work, I just kind of had a pit in my stomach. because even though these photos were posted in the year 2019, about around two years before Estelle's disappearance, it still gives you an eerie, almost disturbed feeling because it's a selfie, you know, Carr living her everyday life with, you know, beautiful Canyon behind her. But once you know the story and you know what what she is eventually accused of it it leaves a really almost creeped out feeling i got a very creeped out feeling and i'm looking at her and this young fiance and it leads me to think now this is just an educated guess everybody

on the panel i want you to jump in it leads me to think that Loretta Ray Carr is the one involved with a man, and she enlists her daughter, Jessie Eden Kelly, age 21, to kill the, quote, other woman. That other woman would be Mary Elizabeth Isbell Wright. Because we know a mom and daughter duo are now charged with the murder of this young mom. Take a listen to Kayla Smith, WHNT. We are still working to get information

about how investigators tied the suspect to the death of the victim, Mary Elizabeth Isbell. Here's what we know from a criminal complaint filed this week. The document shows Loretta Carr from Fort Payne is charged with capital murder. Jail records reveal Carr was booked into the DeKalb County Jail Sunday night. Carr is accused of abducting Isbell in October of 2021. What exactly would that do to a body, Dr. Dupree, to die by being flung over a cliff. When you're thrown over a cliff, you're going to have a lot of blunt force injuries, things like obviously broken bones, fractures,

all sorts of things like that, pretty much all over your body, of course, depending on how far the drop is. I'm just imagining this beautiful young mom being murdered in this heinous fashion. Guys, we're talking about Mary Elizabeth East Bell Wright. Her mother distraught, trying to find her. Where's my daughter? But the reality is her daughter was long dead. Her crumpled and broken body at the bottom of a cliff and according to police, pushed over the cliff by a mother-daughter tag team, angry that Isabel was dating their love

object, one of their love objects. But it's not the first time, of course, that this has happened. Take a listen to Hour Cut 20. Does the name Lisa Nowak ring a bell? She was with NASA, an astronaut. Listen. Before she drove from Houston to Orlando to intercept me, she hid her intentions and her whereabouts, I believe, for the weekend from her co-workers. She chose to drive the thousand mile distance rather than fly, which ensured no record of her trip. She covered her tracks by traveling under a fake name, wearing a disguise, and making minimal stops and using only cash. She brought with her a myriad of weapons, which one seasoned detective had called a murder kit. Lisa Nowak told police that she planned to use the weapons that she brought with her to force me to sit with her. To sit with her? That's not exactly what NOAC had in mind.

Listen. She blasted me with what felt like acid. It burned my eyes, my nose, and my mouth, and it sucked the air out of me. I don't know what other weapons she had at the ready because I didn't hang around to find out. I stomped on the gas, and I wondered if there was a gun pointed at my head. My eyes and throat were on fire. My lungs ached for air. I fought the urge to breathe in whatever poison it was that she had sprayed me

with. I thought I had just escaped a carjacking and I was sure that she had just tried to kill me to steal my car. I had no idea that a high-ranking, high-paid military officer had just attacked me. I believe I escaped a horrible death that night. You're hearing the victim in that case, Colleen Shipman, giving her victim impact statement about the attack made by her then boyfriend's former girlfriend, who drives all the way across the country to attack Colleen. But she's certainly not the only one. Does the name Caitlin Armstrong ring a bell? Her victim, Mariah Wilson.

Take a listen to our Cut 23, Fox 7, Austin. Caitlin Armstrong wanted by the U.S. Marshals for the murder of cyclist Mariah Wilson. Wilson was visiting from California and staying with a friend. She was in Austin ahead of a race in Heiko. Court papers say the night of the murder, Wilson went for a swim at Deep Eddy Pool with Colin Strickland, another cyclist. Then they went to Pool Burger before Strickland dropped her off at her friend's house. Documents say Strickland and Armstrong were in a relationship before briefly ending it for a couple of weeks last year. At the time, he was involved with Wilson.

So now Mariah Wilson is dead world champ cyclist. In her 20s, her life, and in front in front of her of course she's not the only one take a listen now we're cutting 19 fox to detroit 26 year old shantanya williamson saw her baby's father in a car with another woman he also got pregnant again the two women according to authorities are pregnant at the same time by the same man. Her boyfriend or ex, the relationship status is somewhat unclear, gets out of the vehicle and is arguing with Williamson and that's when she allegedly fires into the other car hitting the other pregnant woman in the leg. But we're told that woman is going to be okay. She drove herself to the hospital. You know, Dr. Bethany Marshall and anybody on the panel, please jump in.

The mode, first of all, murder. But the mode of murder. Pushing Isabel, Elizabeth Isabel, off a cliff to her death. Did they lure her there? Did they force her there? I don't know the answer to that. But over a man, number one. A cheating man, apparently. Because because seems like he was having a

relationship with two women at once but who cares i'm not the church lady i don't care who's sleeping with who but not only to do it but to enlist your daughter or your mom to commit murder and that person going along with it who are these two minions from hell? You know, Nancy, when I first read or heard that it was a mother-daughter duo, I thought this has to be over a man. It has to be over jealousy of some sort. And I would imagine this mother-daughter duo had a long history of plotting and planning against anybody who interfered with their feelings of importance in the world. Wasn't there another case where a girl failed to become a cheerleader and they went after the coach, a mother's daughter team did? I'm trying to remember that story.

But right, that was a well-known one made into a film. But jealousy and envy are the strongest emotions and often negative emotions that a person can face. They come from very early in life. They're very infantile. And most most crimes are motivated by jealousy or envy. Envy. You have something I want. so i'm going to take it from you that's theft jealousy somebody i want is interested in you rather than me so i'm just going to snuff you out and the way that this mother-daughter duo threw beth over the cliff i mean the terror she felt as she was falling to her death and that selfie that the perpetrator took. I mean, I want the listeners to try to look it up and see it. Go on the Crime Online website because it's not just a selfie.

She has her head cocked back so that what's in the back of the selfie is the precipitous decline of the cliff. You can see where Beth fell to her death. I mean, she's really triumphing over the victim there. Who is the man they were fighting about? Don't know. Were people sleeping around? Don't know. But I can tell you this much. If my husband, David Lynch, cheats, she can have him. I'll send him to you. COD, cash on delivery. You're paying the freight lady. I don't want him back.

I'll find somebody that can be true. So far, there's been no hint of cheating, but I can tell you this much. Don't commit murder over a man or a woman. All their lives are altered forever. Over what? An Alabama woman suspected of pushing a missing mom off a cliff

to her death and enlisting her daughter as a henchperson? We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend.