Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Man and girlfriend file teeth to a point, worship Satan, DEAD bodies in the backyard.

Episode Date: October 2, 2019

A man and his girlfriend worship Satan. Police enter the filty home and find two bodies buried in the backyard. Joining Nancy Grace today to discuss this case: Ken Belkin, NY criminal defense attorney; Dr. Kendall Crowns,  Pathologist, Deputy ME Travis County Texas;Steven Lampley, Former Detective;Dr. Caryn Stark, Psychologist; and reporter Levi Page. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She made it so exciting, you know, hey, I'm going to come pick you up, we're going to come up here and I want you to meet Pazuzu, I want your opinion on him. I said, okay, well, that's cool. We get up there and everything was fine until I walked onto the front porch.

The stench just, it was like a smack to the face. It was so strong. First thing I ever said to Pazuzu when I met him was, dude, your house smells like death. And he kind of laughed. Oh, yeah, it's just the bodies in the basement. Okay, I can imagine that laugh. You know, once you smell a dead body, a human body, you never forget it. And nobody really has to tell you what it is. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us. You were just hearing our friends at The Devil You Know on Viceland. Wow. Could they not have described it any better? What happened? What happened in Clemens, North Carolina? Kendall Crowns joining us, pathologist, deputy medical examiner in Travis County, Texas. That's in Austin. Doctor, thank you so much for being with us.

I'm sure you perform more autopsies than you can even remember, but nobody has to tell you when you smell a dead body. Oh, yes, that's very true, Nancy. It has a very distinct odor. You know, you can be driving down the road and smell a horrible smell and know that an animal has been run over. You know, it's interesting to Dr. Karen Stark, psychologist joining me from Manhattan. Karen, on TV, it's also slick and airbrushed and edited when you see these crime stories on TV. It's not like that at all in real life.

It's amazing to me sometimes that people are so fascinated with murder. I guess it's because they're not seeing the real thing because it's something you probably never want to see again. You never want to be exposed to it, Nancy. And I think that watching it on TV sometimes, it coats over the fact that it's as horrific as it really is because you don't smell it and you're not there to get the details that you're describing. Levi Page, who was it that walked up to this front porch so unknowingly and smelled the

smell of death? Who was that? Nancy, it was neighbors and people that had been there. He had a lot of parties and some of his friends had also smelled the smell of death. And while they were there, Nancy, this guy bragged about killing people, but he was so bizarre that people brushed it off and just thought that he was kind of crazy. You know, how often is that true? Joining me, Steve Lampley, detective. Steve Lampley, people joke about bodies in the basement. I mean, at Halloween, I put an arm on the back of the minivan and we decorate the house. Most people wouldn't think anything of it when someone says,

those are just the dead bodies in the basement. But for a detective like yourself, that's a real giveaway. Nancy, everything's taken seriously, of course. But people do. People do joke with police officers. You know, well, I did this and I did that. But oftentimes, as in this case, it's not a joke. And it has to be taken seriously,

and especially if you're talking about somebody comes up to you and says, hey, he needs to be looked into. You heard speaking a woman named Katie Wagner Davis, Especially if you're talking about somebody comes up to you and says, hey, he needs to be looked into. You heard speaking a woman named Katie Wagner Davis, and she's a friend of a woman named Amber. She wanted Katie to come to Pazuzu's parties. Let's just clear up the record here. Amber is a woman around 28, 29 years old,

and that is Pazuzu's girlfriend. And isn't it odd to Ken Belkin joining us today, renowned criminal defense attorney in the New York jurisdiction. Ken, why is it? You may give me a different answer from what I'm thinking, but women are so blind to what's wrong with their mate. I mean, in nearly every child molestation I have ever prosecuted, and this is a sorry story, the women side with the man, even in the face of overwhelming evidence of molestation of their own biological children. It's very hard for women when they have this picture in their mind of the perfect relationship to see what's wrong with the guy. Hello, his house smells like a dead body. There's

something wrong. But here she is saying, hey, I got a guy I want you to meet. It's my boyfriend, Pazuzu Algarad. I mean, have you ever had a client, Ken Belkin, that was blinded by love? Well, look, everyone's capacity for self-delusion is limited when it comes to the significant other that they love the most. Take my girlfriend, for example. She has to overlook the fact that I have a cat. Now, that's not, you know, that doesn't relate to the situation here. But, you know, people will overlook these things. They will delude themselves.

They will tell lies to themselves. And the longer they tell these lies to themselves, they will believe them. Well, it wasn't just the girlfriend that was looking through rose-tinted glasses. Take a listen to our friends at WXII 12. This is news reporter Talitha Vickers. I spoke with a resident who passes this home every single day on his morning walk. He says that both suspects really kept to themselves and finding out about the buried bodies in his neighborhood is alarming. THE SUSPECT WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL.

HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL.

HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL.

HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. HE WAS ALSO IN THE HOSPITAL. Good, sir. Now, the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office did receive a search warrant to not only search the backyard, but also the inside of this home here. And they tell us that they are continuing to piece together evidence that they found inside and outside of the home. Again, not releasing what led them here. You know it's bad when you've got cops digging through your trash in your backyard. When you look out your kitchen window and you see the cops back there, something is very, very wrong.

It's not like when you pull up Ken Belkin, New York criminal defense attorney, to a red light and you see a cop over in the corner arresting somebody for speeding or didn't put on their blinker. When you see a cop peeking through your backyard, you better get on the phone and call Ken Belkin. You know, that's absolutely correct. And more frequently than not, a lot of people will call me because if you're at that stage of an investigation where cops are in your backyard going through your trash, more than likely an arrest, a search warrant was ordered by a judge. So that means detectives had to go in

front of a judge with a prosecutor, lay out the probable cause for the search warrant, and get a judge to sign off on it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. My name is Katie Wagner-Davis, and I met Amber in high school. We were the best friends in no time. I saw my best friend do a complete and total 180. One day she's star bubbles, the next day she's not showering and shaving all of her eyebrows off and filing her teeth down to points so that she could bite into these animals and I just, no. No.

Whenever I first really started hearing about Pazuzu, we got a few phone calls from her telling me that, you know, she really likes this guy. He's really cool. He's a Satanist. She would talk about these rituals, I guess. Pazuzu would kill an animal and drink the blood. I know that they would cut each other open and drink each other's blood. Okay, if I even heard that, I would turn and run for the hills as if I had seen a monster. What? Why did she stick with him? That's my big question right now. You are hearing our friends over at Vice on The Devil You Know

describing this cute little girl in high school that suddenly shaves off her eyebrows, files her teeth down to a point, and talks about drinking blood. Okay, right at the quit showering. She had my attention right there. You know, as much as I love you, Dr. Crown and Ken Belkin, Steve Lampley, Levi Page, Dr. Karen Stark, I need to shrink and I need it fast. How does somebody go from to such an extreme from zero to 180 MPH seemingly overnight? Nancy, there's something that happens when you meet somebody who's exciting, even if

it's horrific to us and we don't understand it. He's appealing to a young girl. It's very cult-like. Think about Nancy, right? She sees him as being powerful, exciting, extraordinary, satanic. And for whatever is going on in her life, we don't know her background, but there's something about him that draws her to him. Okay, stop right there. Dr. Karen, stop. Karen, Karen, Karen, wait a minute.

Now, if I were to see something dangerous, I'd say, you know what? See ya and be gone. But I guess at a certain age in your life, you're more drawn to excitement. But biting the head off an animal and drinking the blood, I don't know that I would call that excitement. I would call that gruesome. I mean, even a 15- or 16-year-old girl should know that. Not necessarily.

Not when somebody's won you over. This is really, it's cult-like, so it's blind attraction. It's just whatever this guy is telling her, whatever is supposed to be happening as a result of drinking the blood, it becomes a part of something that she sees as fine, not horrific anymore, and exciting. Shaving the eyebrows, the filing the teeth to points, the drinking animal blood.

I mean, Ken Belkin, New York criminal defense attorney, isn't killing an animal and drinking its blood, isn't there a crime? Isn't that, there a law against that? Oh, yeah. You could definitely be prosecuted for cruelty to animals. And believe me, I've seen, you would think it's not as common as it is. It does get prosecuted. Good grief.

Okay, listen to this. She wasn't the only one that witnesses his peculiarities. Because we learn about this, quote, troubled. That is defense talk. Defense talk troubled. That means doing wild crazy usually illegal things that's what troubled means troubled high school dropout who changes his name to pazuzu from john to pazuzu making his middle name algarad his surname and adopting as his middle name, Algarad, his surname, and adopting as his first name that of the main demon in The Exorcist,

in case you're wondering who's Pazuzu, then brought Satanism to the suburbs. Yeah, that's who this guy is. Now, Jackie Howard is wildly waving a note to me. She's not concerned about the drinking the animal blood. She's concerned that he had three girlfriends. Now, Jackie, I don't know, but you may be projecting something that's happened in your past. I'm not sure about that, but you seem to think that's much worse than filing your teeth to points, shaving off your eyebrows and drinking animal blood. She's like, but he's got three girlfriends and he's

calling them all his fiance. All right. You know what that says to me? That says a cult because you have multiple people following along with you. It was basically like a Charles Manson of Clemens. I'm Sylvia Lebeau. I'm related to the situation just by being at the wrong place at the wrong time. He had this thing called fiancés. He had several women followers. Dixie, Crystal, Amber. And he called them his fiancés. That term has always stuck with me, fiancés.

He had this sense of power. You know what? Shaving your eyebrows and filing your teeth to a point is not against the law. You can deface yourself pretty much any way you want to, but this is where I have a problem. The Forsyth County Medical Examiner's Office has identified the skeletal remains that were found buried at this Clemens home on Knob Hill Drive. The first victim has been identified as Tommy Dean Welch, born in 1978. The second victim has been identified as Joshua Frederick Wetzler. Wetzler was reported missing by his son's mother, Stacy Carter. Carter says she had known Wetzler for a decade before his disappearance. They had met in Washington and moved to North Carolina, planning to open a horse business.

Their son was born in 2004. Carter and Wetzler eventually broke up. She tells me the last time she saw Josh was in July 2009 and that he was a very loving, caring father. So when he stopped calling his son, she knew something was up. It did become unusual when he didn't call his mother on his birthday and he didn't contact his son because he's a very loving father. He put family first and his son first. Carter says she never heard of or met Zuzu Algarod, Amber Birch or Crystal Matlock. All three have been charged in connection with the case. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

Investigators say that the two people who actually live at this home are suspected of burying the bodies in shallow graves. We're approaching the 24-hour mark. Crime scene tape is up and investigators remain on the scene. But 35-year-old Pazuzu Aljarad and 24-year-old Amber Burch are now locked up facing charges in connection to the unidentified human remains. AND THE SUSPECT WAS FOUND IN THE BACK OF THE HOME. THE SUSPECT WAS FOUND IN THE BACK OF THE HOME. THE SUSPECT AND THE 24-YEAR-OLD

ARE NOW LOCKED UP FACING CHARGES IN CONNECTION TO THE UNIDENTIFIED HUMAN REMAINS. BOTH SUSPECTS LIVE AT 2749 NOB HILL DRIVE IN CLEMONS WHERE THE SKELETAL REMAINS WERE FOUND IN SHALLOW GRAVES AT THE BACK OF THIS HOME.

NO WORD YET WHAT LED INVESTIGATORS TO SEARCH THE PROPERTY YESTERDAY BUT THE property yesterday, but the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office, along with the State Bureau of Investigation, could be seen throughout the night securing the scene and collecting evidence. You are hearing from our friends at WXII 12 News. That was Talitha Vickers on the scene. Why? You know, the state never has to prove motive to a jury, but why did these two guys go missing? And are they in fact in this guy, Pazuzu Algarod, a.k.a. John Algarod Lawson's backyard? And also, why did the girlfriend, as a matter of fact, not one, two, but three girlfriends, stand by? Did they know what was happening? Take a listen to our friend Talitha at WXH 12. When I spoke with investigators with the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office, they told me that they could not release yet what led them to this home.

However, they are confident that they have the people involved with murdering and burying the two victims here at this home. THE FAMILY. THE FAMILY WAS IN THE HOME WHEN THE VICTIM WAS TAKEN. THE 25-YEAR-OLD AND 24-YEAR- OLD AMBER BIRCH REMAIN LOCKED UP THIS MORNING CHARGED WITH ONE COUNT OF MURDER AND ONE COUNT OF ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT TO MURDER. INVESTIGATORS BELIEVE THE TWO

ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR KILLING AND BURYING TWO VICTIMS IN SHALLOW GRAVES BEHIND THE HOME WHERE THEY LIVE. INVESTIGATORS DUG UP THE GRAVES SUNDAY AND TRANSPORTED THE REMAINS TO WAKE FOREST FAPTIST MEDICAL CENTER FOR POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION. Sunday and transported the remains to Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center for positive identification. You can see photos of this guy, Pazuzu Elah Algarad, born John Lawson at CrimeOnline.com. And when you see the dramatic transformation in his appearance, have you guys ever seen those

ads on TV about what happens to you when you use meth, about your methamphetamine, how your face totally changes. You suddenly look, you can be 19 years old and you look like you're 55 and you've been run over. That's the transformation you see. As a matter of fact, Steve Lampley, detective joining us, you know, people, when you're walking down the street, you just see them and some type of instinct takes over and you go to the other side of the street. That's this guy. If you take a look at him, that's him. Jackie, have you seen his picture? I mean, you would totally, I would pull the twins away and go, okay, get in the car, lock the door, get in the car, lock the door. Yeah, Nancy. Well, that's what he wanted. Apparently

from the articles and information that I have. He wanted to create that environment. He wanted to create that alarm. He wanted to bring Satanism to that small community. So that was right down his alley for people to do that. He wanted the shock factor, from what I understand. And you know, too, Dr. Karen Stark, psychologist, I always refer to hunches and gut feelings, and I do not think that they are taken seriously enough because I believe that hunches are born over thousands of years of evolution. I think your body is like a giant computer beyond any AI yet created where you smell something, you sense something, you hear something, you feel a shift in the wind. Your body is beyond any radar or sonar yet created. And when you have a hunch, you should follow it because your body, your mind, your senses that you can't even

identify are telling you something. Your instincts are correct, Nancy. That's what a hunch is. A hunch is about an instinctive feeling that something is wrong. And we're picking up on all kinds of information inside of our brains that we're not aware of. And you should pay attention. And what's fascinating is there were no hunches when it came to these fiances because they found him intriguing. This was a cult. So they were able to be under his spell. But what's interesting is that people around him were ignoring what was happening despite their hunches. Guys, the one thing

Pazuzu feared was going to jail because he was afraid he couldn't do his blood rituals every month on the dark moon. Talk about cruel and unusual punishment. To Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us, Deputy M.E. in Travis County, Texas. He is a pathologist. Dr. Crowns, how do you determine cause of death when a body has been buried, time has gone by, the body has decomposed, how do you manage to ferret out the truth? So depending on how much decomposition has occurred, if you still have organs left, you can still, even though they've decomposed quite a bit, you can still find injuries in the

organs that can help you determine cause of death and even natural disease processes. Now, if they've decomposed so much that they've become skeletons and there's no tissue left whatsoever, we can still look at the bones and find injuries on the bones like fractures and traumatic injuries like stab wounds and gunshot wounds, things of that nature, where we can still make the determination that this person did indeed die of trauma. And of course, with a bullet wound, you look for entry. If there's not an exit, you may very well find the bullet in the body. Dr. Grounds, have you ever had to work on a body that had already begun to decompose? Yes, I've had to do autopsies on decomposed cases thousands of times and skeleton cases for that matter.

Now, when you say skeleton cases, what do you mean by that? Dr. Crowns, I could listen to you talk about medical examination all day long. Now you've got me interested about how you perform an autopsy on a skeletonized body. How do you do that? So when the remains are brought in, what we'll do is we'll do an x-ray or a CT scan where we'll look for any lead or anything like that from a bullet or a knife that's still in the bony remains. Then we'll take the remains out of the bag and we'll sort through them and we'll arrange them anatomically and determine how many bones we have, if there's any missing, etc. And then we start looking for

injuries. Wait a minute, Dr. Crown's question. Can you, and don't be modest, can you look at a bone and just looking at it know where it goes on the body? Yes, there's certain marks on the bone that you can determine if it's right or left. Okay, we're all extremely impressed here in the studio. This may be child's play to you, but the thought that you could look at a bone and know exactly where it goes on the human body. I've always been really curious. I was thinking about, I can't remember what case it was. It may have been Kelly Anthony, top mom's daughter, where the cops and the medical examiner investigators were out late into the night trying to find all of her over 200 bones so the medical examiner could put them together. I guess to you, it's like, you know, a lot of people baking a cake.

You put in the flour, you put in the sugar, blah, blah, then you have a cake. You can look at a bone and tell where it goes in a body. Another question, Dr. Kendall Crowns, and believe it or not, after all the years I have prosecuted homicides and covered them, I've never asked this. Dr. Crowns, when you have a case where the body has begun to decompose and like the visitor said, the stench was unbearable, how do you perform the autopsy with the smell of decomposition? How do you do that? Basically, what we always tell people is you breathe through your mouth,

not your nose, and you don't smell the smell as much. And then if you don't leave the room, you become basically nose blind to it over time. For myself in particular, my older brother knocked me around a few times, and I've had head trauma, and I have never really been able to smell all that well. So I was uniquely suited for this line of work because of that. Okay, I'm totally stealing your life from my next murder mystery novel, because, Jackie, please write this down. I've never heard of that before. A perfect job for you. I was just wondering if medical examiners use some type of a

head covering or a mask or something so the decomp doesn't just overwhelm them. I've seen cops, and I actually am writing about this in my next fiction book, where a rookie cop goes to a crime scene, there's decomp, and he actually just starts vomiting because the smell is so overwhelming. You know who's getting lost in the sauce right now and it's my fault? Joshua Retzler and Tommy Welch, who for no known reason lose their life to a man who says his goal in life is to be a demon. crime stories with nancy grace amber birch's involvement in the murders and the proper burials of two men at this clements home began in july of 2009 detectives say the first victim was joshua wetzler he'd been living in the home of devil worshiper presuzu algarod Clements' home began in July of 2009. Detectives say the first victim was Joshua Wetzler. He'd been living in the home of devil worshiper Prezuzu Algarod

until Algarod shot and killed him and hid his body in the basement. Algarod called Birch, his girlfriend, and she came up from South Carolina to help bury Wetzler. When Josh and Tommy were discovered, the DA met with the families and they told us they were going to fill us in on everything that was going to happen at the trial. And it's been two and a half years since they found Josh. And all this time, you know, we kept asking when is there going to be an indictment?

When is there going to be a trial? And we never were contacted with any information. Finally, two years after the bodies were found in the backyard at Nob Hill, Amber Birch takes a plea deal and finally appears in court to answer for what she's done. You're hearing our friends at Viceland and the devil you know, and they are talking about a guy whose lifelong goal, it wasn't to win the Olympics, it wasn't to be president of the bank, it was to be a demon. And he named himself after a demon in The Exorcist.

Pazuzu Algarod, born John Lawson, charged in the murders of Joshua Retzler and Tommy Welch. But what about Amanda Birch and Crystal Matlock? Are they both his, quote, fiancés? To Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, who are these women, Amanda Birch and Crystal Matlock, and what, if anything, do theyés to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Who are these women, Amanda Birch and Crystal Matlock, and what, if anything, do they have to do with the murders? Amber Birch was his girlfriend, Nancy, and this guy wanted to emulate Charles Manson, so he collected women to join this cult, and that's what they did. And they were his accessories.

His other fiancée that he called her, 28-year-old Crystal Matlock, she was accused of helping him and Birch bury the bodies, and she was charged as an accessory after the fact. Wow. You know you would think that there were plenty of red flags with a guy whose apparently lifelong dream is to be a demon? Well, guess what? There were. Al Jarrod was arrested

in 2010 and charged with accessory after the fact in the murder of Joseph Chandler, a legally blind man from Clemens whose body was found at Donna Park in Yadkin County, June 7, 2010. Four years later, Al Jarad here is apparently back behind bars along with Birch at the Forsyth County Detention Center. Both are charged with one count of murder and one count of accessory after the fact to murder. They're also being held without bond. The skeletal remains have been taken to Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center for positive identification and further examination. You were hearing our friend again, Talitha Vickers there at WXII to Ken Belkin, New York criminal defense attorney. Ken, what is accessory after the fact? Accessory after the fact

is when you take part in the cover-up in the crime, usually. Or, you know, you undertake some sort of efforts to assist in the person who committed the crime, sort of evading detection, evading consequences. You know, it's curious to me, Steve Lampley, detective joining us today, that no motive has ever been revealed. And again, as Ken Belkin will back me up on this, the state's never required to prove motive in any case, but for practical reasons. The jury wants to hear why. They want to make it all fit together.

Levi Page, was there any motive that we could discern? There was no motive, Nancy, other than this guy was just dark. That's the best way that I can describe him. That's the most polite way. I guess it would be for the same reason that he killed animals and drank their blood. Why? I guess the answer to that is why ask why? To Levi Page, investigative reporter, I'm just very curious as to with all of these red flags, including being connected to a prior death of a blind man, how is a self-proclaimed demon worshiper, Pazuzu Algarret, able to get away with all of

these crimes for so long? And were there tips to police about the bodies or anything else? Well, this is what happened, Nancy. He was arrested in 2010. He was charged with accessory after the fact for the shooting death of Joseph Chandler, that blind person, he let the killer of that man stay in his home where these wild, disgusting parties were going on. And he pled guilty and was sentenced to probation. And he went back to the home. And in 2010, his home was actually searched. And they discovered this huge mess, you know, animal defecation, human defecation. People would relieve themselves all over the place. It was trashed.

And they never found those bodies in the backyard until people that partied with him complained to the police and said, this guy has bragged about killing people. It smells of death in the home. And then police went back and then they dug up the bodies of those missing young men in their early 30s. But my question is, all that is accurate, but how did he get away for so long with this type of behavior? I think because he was so crazy, Nancy, that people didn't take him seriously, if that makes sense. There's rantings about killing people. I mean, this guy has even, while in jail, he has said that he killed sex workers, prostitutes,

that he's killed more people than has been attributed to him, that he had been charged with. And I think people chalked it up to this is just the rantings of a madman and did not take it seriously. And then when they did come to search the home, they found nothing. Yes, and I think that that can be chalked up because they didn't do a thorough job of searching the home. How do you miss two dead bodies in the backyard? Cadaver dogs would have found that. You know what? You're right.

But at the time, 2010, did they have reason to bring cadaver dogs? Well, I think that if your home is like this and there's people saying this guy has bragged about killing people, his home smells like death, that could have been probable cause to bring cadaver dogs. Well, I agree. I agree. But in 2010, I don't know that people were saying it smelled like death because when were the two victims, Joshua Retzler and Tommy Welch, murdered?

What date? In 2009 is when they went missing. They were reported missing in 2009, and they were apparently killed inside of his home, according to his co-conspirators. Well, you know what, then? You may be right that cadaver dogs would have found that and that the stench of death was already there.

To Karen Stark, psychologist joining us out of Manhattan, Karen, why do you believe that this guy, a self-professed demon, Pazuzu Algarad, got away with his crimes for so long? I think that what we're talking about is that the police did not do a thorough enough job, Nancy. I don't know, was it that he was so bizarre that they thought that it must be a joke? It doesn't make a lot of sense. There's something that was missing. Because if other people were smelling death and the police show up there, and why didn't they bring the dogs? Why didn't they smell that? How come they didn't do a thorough enough search? Something went wrong with the

justice in this case. I'm thinking to you, Ken Belk, a New York criminal defense attorney, about one of the three fiancés, Amber Birch. She was sentenced to 40 years, up to 40 years, for shooting Joshua Wetzler. Do you see similarities between her case and the Manson murders? I do see similarities between her case and the Manson murders? I do see similarities. You know, this is a young woman who was taken in by a charismatic psycho pair and influenced, arguably, to do something she could have never done otherwise. I couldn't draw a closer line to it than that, except for the fact that, you know, Manson looked slightly more normal than this guy.

Yeah, you know what? You're right. To Levi Page, who do they believe actually pulled the trigger? So he is the one that pulled the triggers. They were actually inside of his home when these murders happened. They were regulars in his home. They partied with him, and he is the one that shot him. And then his girlfriends actually came in after the fact and helped him bury and dispose of these bodies. But here's the thing, Nancy, law enforcement has said that these bodies were inside of his home for weeks before they actually buried them in the backyard. So he was living

inside of this house with dead bodies in there for weeks. That's how demented that he is. You know what? There's how demented that he is. You know what? There's actually no telling what he did to those bodies. To Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us, pathologist, deputy medical examiner, Travis County, Texas. Dr. Crowns, even if a body has been decomposing, would you be able to determine if, for instance, satanic rituals were done on the bodies? Oh, of course. Sometimes when you get mutilation of the bodies for rituals or for whatever, you can still tell even with decompositions. Occasionally the maggots will come in and they'll eat away at the wounds,

but you'll still be able to tell that it's traumatic in nature. Question to you. Levi Page, investigative reporter, what do authorities believe was the motive behind the killings? They actually don't know the motive behind the killings. This guy apparently was so demented, Nancy, and was so attracted to the dark side. I mean, if you've looked at his home, there's trash everywhere. He allowed people to defecate and urinate inside the home and made his dogs clean it up. This home was in such a mess, Nancy, that it had to be demolished. Nobody could live in that home after he and his girlfriends were arrested. They think

that this is just someone that was just absolutely demented for no reason at all. He was just attracted to the dark side. You know, I'm wondering if he believed that in order to truly become a demon, he had to commit a murder. to know that he was so disturbed about not being able to perform his blood rituals behind bars on the, quote, dark moon each month, he committed suicide. He had always promised that he would bite his finger to the bone and then puncture an artery. He actually did bleed out behind bars, we think from a self-inflicted wound. Well, Pazuzu Algarod, aka John Lawson, I don't think you're going to be missed. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. And P.S., I think I know where you are. You wanted to be a demon? Well, right now, you're having dinner with demons.

Goodbye, friends. This is an iHeart Podcast.