Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Manhunt for Gabby Petito Boyfriend Brian Laundrie, as His Parents Visit Public Library

Episode Date: September 27, 2021

Brian Laundrie has been missing since at least September 14. The person of interest in Gabby Petito's death told his parents that he intended to hike in the Carlton Reserve, but he has not returned. Three days before he left, Laundrie’s girlfriend Gabby Petito was reported missing by her family. Those knowledgeable with the rough terrain point out it would be difficult to survive in that area, which is now mostly underwater, for an extended period of time. There is no potable water and little dry ground to camp. Meanwhile, Laundrie's parents were followed by federal agents to a public library, where they hung out for a period of time, before heading to a meeting with an attorney.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego, Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA www.angelaarnoldmd.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Angenette Levy - Emmy-nominated Reporter & Anchor, Twitter: @Angenette5 Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. The search is on for Gabby Petito's so-called boyfriend, Brian Laundrie, but is the FBI taking a pivot and looking in a different direction. This as Gabby's memorial occurred in the last hours where her family urged everyone to be inspired by Gabby. And you know what? They're right. I will be inspired. I plan to be inspired by Gabby Petito after we find Brian Laundrie. First of all, let's kick it off with TikTok user CW Lynn. I am a flight attendant and I'm overnighting in Toronto and I was picking up a DoorDash outside and I noticed this guy was getting flustered walking out of a hotel. He got back into his car and drove off with another

guy and I went downstairs to let the hotel know and they said that he didn't know where he was going and he had the wrong hotel and I'm just trying to figure out if this looks like him or if I just fell too far down the rabbit hole. I mean, you can see the dip in his mustache, like right here where it is on the left side. And then like the ears, like the ears like bent down on this side. But my, I mean, my ear gets bent down when I put my mask on, but it's better to be safe than sorry. So let me know what you think. C.W. Lin on TikTok, I'm on your side. Do I think that's him? No.

You know why? Because I think that he, by now, has drastically changed his appearance. Do I think he's in Carlton Reserve? No. He is not out in 25,000 acres of swampland with the gators and the rattlers and the moccasins where there is no fresh water source. You can't drink the water. It's totally contaminated. I mean, just on instinct, I just took the twins, my children, on a swamp expedition not far from Carleton Reserve. Gator spotting. Yes, I did. Judge me if you wish. And we had a great time, but there is no way we would have even had a tiny sip of that black water. That's not happening. So with no water, no water filtration system that we know of since he left with nothing but a backpack. Cadaver dogs can't find him.

Scent dogs can't find him. Drones can't find him. Cops can't find him. Buzzards can't find him. I'd be willing to bet it's because he's not there. And the single most important indicator, which I'm pretty sure one of my guests, Cheryl McCollum, agrees with, she's been screaming it. No need to preach to the choir, Cheryl.

Where's mommy? Mommy's not out there on a skiff screaming out, Brian, where are you? Mommy's in her air-conditioned Dodge Ram with her husband going to visit their lawyer. They're going to the grocery store. They're cutting the grass. They're not worried he's out there committing suicide. Uh-uh. Look at mommy. They're not worried at all. Somebody's breaking in. I knew that would happen. Go on, Cheryl. Have at it. You're absolutely right. And I have been saying this from day one because I'm taking my cues from her. She ain't worried

about him being hurt. She's not worried about him having some type of accident and falling. She's not worried about the snakes and the gators and nothing else. She certainly is not entertaining suicide. She's at Starbucks. She's at, you know, the store. They're cutting grass. They're carrying on. His sister ain't out there looking at him, you know, looking for him. They're not out there looking for him. Again, she hasn't called friends and family to help search. She ain't called the priest. I want everybody within our earshot right now to think or blurt it out, Jackie. I know you will. Medea, Karen, we have an all-girl team here in the studio. Go ahead. What would you be doing if you thought one of your children was alone out in that swamp contemplating suicide? What would you do?

What wouldn't you do? You'd hear me in Canada. Yeah. No way is he in that swamp considering suicide. Okay, let's just kick it off with there. But you know what? I give all the credit to TikTok Deezer. I think her real name is Ciara.

But it's C-W-L-I-N-N-N-N, I think, who saw this person that she thinks looks like Brian Laundrie and he he does look like Brian Laundrie but there is no way this guy if he is on the lam which I think he is has not changed his appearance getting rid of the mustache getting rid of any visible body piercing hiding tattoos and probably dying his hair do I have to say Scott Peterson? Remember what he looked like by the time he was arrested? Bleached blonde hair. Hadn't he shaved off facial? He did everything he could to change his appearance. Let me introduce you an all-star panel. You've already met Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, death investigator, renowned psychiatrist. Joining me out of the Atlanta Case Research Institute, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, death investigator, renowned psychiatrist,

joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Dr. Angela Arnold at AngelaArnoldMD.com and former medical director of a psych clinic. But I'm sure she'll give you a lot of really long Latin phrases, but it boils down to this. Mama ain't crying. Okay. So we'll get the long Latin terms from Dr. Angela Arnold, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags, which is really important here. Were there red flags about Brian Laundrie's behavior? Today with Dr. Wendy KCBQ and at WendyPatrickPhD and WendyPatrickPhD.com. But first, let's go out to special guest joining us, investigative reporter Michael Ruiz,

joining us from North Port, Florida. Michael, have you seen that swamp? Don't put a toe in because it's likely to get bitten off by a gator. But have you seen that swamp and what's happening with the search? And why were the feds back at the laundry home this weekend the same day as Gabby's funeral? Just start wherever you want, Michael. Okay, there's a lot to unpack there. But yes, I've seen the swamp. And, you know, for someone to be living in there for more than a week seems very far-fetched with the high water that we have,

with the gators, with the snakes. There's also bears and pumas. And the insects are, they bite a lot and it stings. I'm not worried about a mosquito bite. Okay. Can I just ask you, Michael, where are you from? I'm from Long Island, New York. So I am actually from very close to where Gabby and Brian grew up.

So I don't think you guys have mosquitoes in Long Island, but do you have no see-ums? The little thingies that bite, but you can't see them? We do. We do have those. They're horrible. But down in the swamp area, there are going to be a lot of mosquitoes. I'm not worried about bug bites for Brian Laundrie. I'm more worried about is he dead or alive and where is he? But the likelihood of living in those conditions, Michael Ruiz, you said with the water conditions, let's break it down. What do you mean by that?

So it's the rainy season right now. So I think three quarters of this this preserve are underwater uh and it's deep and it it kind of forces the animals onto whatever few places of dry land there are which is also where if someone was hiding in there they would have to be so everything would be kind of squeezed into a little space and that would make it very uncomfortable with you know 13 foot gators and coyotes and wild boar and water moccasins and whatever else he has to be camping around them. Plus, police searched this area extensively. And because of the water, the area where they have to search if he's alive

is very small compared to what it would be if it were dry out there. So they have kind of a focus on where they could have found him, and they haven't found him. And basically every expert and every local I've talked to about this said that they don't think he's in there. If he was ever in there, he's gone. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're taking it one thing at a time.

We're going to move to the FBI on the screen porch of Mr. and Ms. Laundrie this weekend in the last 24 hours. Coincidentally, same day as Gabby's memorial where her family calls for us to be inspired. And it kind of makes me feel bad because they're so good and magnanimous and sending out love. And all I want to do is find Brian Laundrie and bring him to justice. But let's focus first on what Michael Ruiz just told us, investigative reporter from Fox joining us from Northport, Florida. To you, Joe Scott Morgan.

Before I get to the feds on the laundry's back doorstep, let's talk about the living conditions in the swamp. Oh, it's horrible. Oh, let me tell you one more thing. Unless you're a gator. Let me tell you one more thing about this guy. Everybody, you know, I keep hearing these. No offense, Michael. I've heard a lot of journos that have been going on about that.

This guy is almost like a modern day Daniel Boone. You know, he spent time on the Appalachian Trail and all these other things. Haven't we all? Let me tell you something. This guy, this guy is a gutless coward. This guy is a man that will beat up 95 pound girls in the middle of the street. He is not surviving. In the middle of the street?

Yep. The middle of the street. He hit her in the face in the street. Hold on. Wait a minute. You did this to me. I didn't do this to myself. I'm taking a turn.

In the middle of the street, Cheryl McCollum, if he will beat her in the face in the middle of the street, taking her phone, trying to get in the van and leave her, what will he do out in a remote wilderness when they're by themselves and she says, I want to break up? What do you think happened, Cheryl? Nancy, I cannot tell you enough. Not only in the middle of the street, in broad daylight, repeatedly in front of witnesses. So what will he do in a remote location? Kill her. That's exactly what

Dr. Angie Arnold, your specialty is dealing with women. Dr. Angie Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us out of Atlanta. Now I'm just an amateur compared to you on this. I worked about nine years volunteering at the Battered Women's Center and I learned a lot because they put us through a lot of training in order to do that. And then I saw it over and over as I was prosecuting. I was just telling this story this morning where I remember seeing this beautiful, sweet little girl, very slight, literally dragging into court. Cheryl, I remember telling you this at the time. Her leg was in a cast up to the hip. She's coming in and behind her was an even scrawnier looking guy and he had broken her leg broken it i don't mean

a boot i don't mean one of those little pushy things where your leg you're bent at the knee and you're going around and one leg is up on a cushion full-on cast hard cast from the hip down. And guess what she wanted, Dr. Angie? To drop charges. And I can't believe I had the idea to do this at that time, as young as I was. I said, no, she's not prosecuting, so don't go home and beat her up. Hey, you ought to be in jail. Somehow you got out on bond. But I'm prosecuting you, not her. And she can beg and plead and carry on, which she did all she wants to. But I'm getting you and you're going to jail. And guess what he did? What I'm saying is what this guy would do behind closed doors and think he could get away with it, Dr. Angie. Well, and the first thing he did, Nancy,

was he iced her family and he worked on her for two years while she lived in that home with him and his two parents who are now protecting him. Then he takes her out on a road trip. I really do believe the girl looked gaunt but unfortunately she was very protective of him because he had made her believe that he was somehow her savior that she wasn't good enough

that no one else wanted to care for her that's what he's been working on for the last two years he has brainwashed this poor little girl to a point of no return. And here's the tricky part, Wendy Patrick, and I agree with everything Dr. Angie Arnold just said. Here's the tricky part. It's like the jackal that sneaks up on the gazelle at the watering hole. It doesn't think, okay, I'm going to isolate the little skinny one and the others will run because that's the one I think I

can eat for lunch. They don't think about it. I don't think Brian Laundrie had a plan, a master plan. Oh, first I'll isolate Gabby. I'll get her to move in with me and my parents who are always on my side. And then slowly I'll condition her to take the blame whenever I'm a class A, a-hole, okay? So I don't think he thought it through, Wendy. I think that is his nature. And that's the scariest part of this, Nancy, is when we look back through the chronology of how that relationship developed, the fact that she was isolated, was living with he and his family, not the other way around, and along with the nature of the trip they took.

This wasn't a, you know, five-star resort tripping. This was road tripping, some level of at least some kind of survivalist instinct where she'd have to depend on him, which is why the information about him taking her phone, threatening to strand her, all of this is that coercive control that we see in these types of domestic violence cases and that we see developing as the foundation of what their relationship was really like. As a matter of fact, take a listen to our cut 168. This is the Moab PD dispatch. 1063 attempt to locate. Continuing attempt to locate time lapse of about 40 seconds, RP states a male hit a female domestic.

He got into a white Ford Transit van, has a black ladder on the back, Florida plate of Quebec Fox Tango Golf 03. The van turned right onto Main Street from Moonflower Market and headed north onto Main Street. 1638. TTA, is that Moonflower? 1641. That's TTA. Do you have a phone number for the RPA? Maybe you're still landline and location of where our victim's at? Phone number is... I'm not sure where he's at.

But the female who got hit, they both, the male and the female, both got into the van and headed north. Significance of that is, contrary to what I originally thought, how polite and civil the Moab police were being on their body cam to Gabby and Laundrie. They knew or should have known he just hit her right on the face on the sidewalk, as Cheryl McCollum has pointed out, in broad daylight, and she's going to love this, on Main Street. On Main Street.

Right there. Broad daylight, on the sidewalk, turn on to Main Street. I mean, how could the cops not know about it? But I'm getting sidetracked off that major blunder. I want to get back to the conditions in the swamp. Nancy, think about something. What? Jump in. And is he something? What? Jump in.

This is Dr. Arnold. Nancy, that that made her feel even more small for him to think that he could slap her in broad daylight. Not only is it so aggressive on his part, but it was so down putting to her. So that's why she later on in the video from the Moab police is apologizing and saying, well, I have OCD and I haven't been taking my medicine. That's what he's done to her. She says she was sorry she was, quote, putting off a bad vibe. I guess I'd be putting off a bad vibe if David had slapped me in the face and got away with it. What about it, Cheryl? What happened in that instant, Dr. Angie's absolutely right, but there's a flip side to this, and that's what happened to Brian Laundrie.

Law enforcement, in that failure to act, naming her as the aggressor, saying they could arrest her, putting him in the hotel and making her go back to the desert, they made him bulletproof. What do you mean by that, Cheryl? He felt untouchable. I guarantee you they got back together and he told her, see, nobody's ever going to believe you. I kept you from going to jail. I should have let them arrest you. He gave her that entire diabetribe, and that is domestic violence 101, sugar.

Listen, relative to this, and let me tell you why this is critical relative to the death investigation. If the ME or the coroner was not aware of the fact that there was previous abuse in this case, this is something, given the state of her body, this is something they may have missed at autopsy. If there was an ongoing domestic violence situation that preceded her death, and I'm talking about things like being slapped, hit. And again, I go back to this idea of deprivation of things like water, food. They've been on the road together for a long time. And because her body was decomposing, I'm sorry to say that the reality is this. They may not have picked up on this. That's a key piece of evidence relative to the narrative when you're talking about their relationship. Well, let's just say in the famous words, it ain't over yet. They still haven't

released the true cause of death. Just the manner of death is homicide. So if we know, certainly they know by now about the prior beating. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we've got Michael Ruiz standing by right now, probably sweating bullets outside of the Carlton Reserve. Hey, Michael Ruiz, investigative reporter joining us from Fox News Digital. Michael, take a listen to our cut 156. This is a Florida swamper. Alan McKeown, listen.

This is what you would find in that 25,000 acres of the Carlton Reserve, except for a few high spots where the power lines are and a couple roads they have in there. And even the couple roads they have in there are massively underwet, just totally underwater. There's no surviving out here. I don't know how to say. I ride ranches. I'm out on horses all day with the dogs and we're working saddlebags and all but we're out here out there riding for 12 13 hours a day starting at daylight time we get in at night I don't see anybody can make it out here for 10 days five days there's no water supply there's no fresh springs there's no stores available you know unless you go 12 miles either direction. There's just no possible way. No possible way. The mosquitoes would carry you off in the first night. Literally blood-sucking

mosquitoes. Take a listen to more from our new friend, Swampster, Alan McEwencoat157. This terrain here is 90% underwater. There's no place habitable. I mean, you know, if he packed a backpack for a couple days, yeah. But, you know, unless he's got hide like a gator, there's no, and nobody's going to survive with the mosquitoes and the bugs and this and that. And then we have the theory of people saying, oh, the gators have eaten him or something like that. You know, again, gators out here are more afraid of you than you are of them. You walk up on a gator 90% of the time, boom, they tell it to go

the other way. Anything dead you find in the woods, you're going to look up, you're going to see buzzards flying like crazy. I've been on a horse, I've been in a car and have seen buzzards down the road, 50 to 100 of them pull up on them and it's nothing but a squirrel. So, you know, you have a dead body out here. Yeah, that is decomposing everything and rigor mortis set in. You are going to see buzzards on it. You are going to see buzzards on it. And Michael Ruiz joining us from Northport, Florida, where, as you know, by now there is the from North Port, Florida, where as you know by now, there is the Carleton Reserve, 25,000 acres of swampland. He's right, Michael. I'm telling you,

having done several swamp expeditions on my own and having taken my children out two months ago, when you come up every gator to a fault, and we saw probably about 80 gators, everyone, large and small, would see us and go underwater and go away. Now, did I get in the water? No. I didn't want to tempt the gator. But long story short, he's totally right. So granted that the conditions are inhabitable in Carleton Reserve, let's just assume that's a big lie.

I know Wendy Patrick's going to want to jump in. If the parents knowingly, if the parents knowingly lied to police about their son's whereabouts, could they face charges? But back to you, Michael Ruiz. I want to find out. The FBI shows up at the screened porch of Brian Laundrie's parents' home. They, the parents, had left something for the FBI. The FBI came and got it. What was it?

So the FBI was looking for DNA evidence. They were looking for materials from the home that could be used to match Brian's DNA for whatever investigative reasons that they have. And that was the exchange there. They only stayed for about three minutes and then they were on their way. So do you believe, Michael Ruiz, that the feds are now and locals are shifting focus away from Carleton Reserve? I do because I can tell you the police presence at the reserve is way down from what it was just a couple of days ago. The search is kind of more compact in a tighter area and less manpower there. And the experts all say that they don't think he's in there.

So, you know, where's the next step of the investigation? I think the FBI is ahead of us on that and they're looking somewhere else. I think you're absolutely right. So next focus is if he's not there, where is he? I got to hand it to our TikToker that we played earlier today because people are looking for him. No doubt in my mind, Wendy Patrick, this guy is altering his appearance. Yeah, and you know, the reason we think that and the evidence that leads to that is we often say inaction speaks louder than words. And the parents' inaction by not going out to the swamp, yelling for their son, all the things that you would do if the twins were missing and all of us would do if our kids were missing, really is indicative of them knowing he went in the opposite direction. He got however many days lead time this is. But that's what anybody would assume looking at their behavior.

So, yes, maybe they're looking in the swamp for evidence, but that's not where they're going to find Brian Laundrie. And I'm going to circle back with you, Wendy, about could the parents be held liable if they knowingly misled police. So let's go out to our experts, Cheryl McCollum and Joe Scott Morgan. If he's not in there, where is he? Well, there's something I want to say before I get to that. The FBI came for DNA evidence, not scent evidence. Hey, you know what? Wait a minute. Why do we keep focusing on laundry as it relates to the search in Carleton Reserve?

A lot of people thought, oh, DNA, have they found a body? Have they found evidence that they want to match it up? What about getting his DNA to make an accurate comparison to DNA found on Gabby's body so he can be charged with murder? Oh, I'm sure you were. You were just about to say what I said. That's what I was waiting to do. They want DNA evidence, not scent evidence, because it's not about the search for him.

It's about something they found at that scene. Maybe he bled at that scene. Maybe his blood is at the murder scene as well. We don't know. But to me, that is critical that they want DNA and not sent evidence. Well, I agree. I agree. Scott, it could be blood evidence.

It could be epithelial evidence, which is skin tissue. It could be sperm. Saliva? Yes. Thank you. I thought of saliva. It could be any number of things.

And Mac, do me a favor. Next time you get a chance, take a look at the video from them on that screen porch. I urge everybody to do this. That was provided by Fox. One of those agents, it looks as though he's actually swabbing what appears to be like a doorbell or something. You get a quick glimpse of it right there in that frame. So what they're doing, I think relative to the DNA of the parents, they're trying to separate them. They're trying to vet all of this stuff relative to DNA. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, hold on. What?

Yeah. Cross-contamination of anything that's in there. They want to separate out the parental DNA relative to this evidence. Remember, they were taking stuff out of that van and bringing it into the house. Do you recall that? They talked about this early on where the van had been unloaded, it was reloaded, and then all of a sudden the FBI now has the van, which is significant compared to the Mustang. They still are still in possession of this van. That means that there's something critical inside of that fan. And I still hold, I still hold that I think that if any, that the fatal event, there's a high likelihood that the fatal event probably took, this thing is secure. You're not going to be able to see anything, even though they're out in the wilderness, Nancy. It's private. You can do whatever you want to in there.

And by God, he was doing it out on the street, wasn't he? He was doing whatever he wanted to out there. And by God, he was doing it out on the street, wasn't he? He was doing whatever he wanted to out there. How much more would he have done in that van? Although I believe, Cheryl McCollum, that he had more swing room to launch an attack, to hit her in the head with a rock, to strangle her. I mean, to me, it's six and one half dozen the other. Did he murder in the van or did he murder outdoors where her body was found? Right.

More than likely, he killed her inside that van and it was quick and it was probably strangulation. What they're going to focus on are the things like the makeshift fire pit. What was he burning? Was he burning her journal?

Was he burning her cell phone? Was he burning other things? And again, they have found his DNA on something that didn't belong. So maybe he burning other things? And again, they have found his DNA on something that didn't belong. So maybe he even did things to her, you know, post-injury. They're going to look for that. So if his DNA is on a rock, if his DNA is on something that it should not be, a broken necklace, that's going to be the key. I agree that if the murder took place in the van,

it was suffocation because there's not really room to do a whole lot else. Is that you, Joe Scott? Yeah. And one other thing that I'd like to point out, they were campers, Nancy. All right. And, you know, we've seen the individual little tent that they would set up. What do you need in order to camp? Well, you've camped, I've camped. You're going to need a hammer probably to drive stakes with. You've probably got a saw in there somewhere to cut branches with. You've certainly got a knife, don't you? And so all of those implements that were contained within that van are potentially evidence-rich items that they're trying to compare things with. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Guys, I've got so, so much is happening right now. We've got to get to something. Michael Ruiz, I want you to listen to ARCA 150. This is Amanda McKenzie at Fox 35. Listen, we do know that laundry's parents, they were here in Orlando yesterday. And that's right. Danielle and Amy. Yes. Laundry's parents were here to meet with their attorney. It's not clear what they spoke about or why they met in Orlando. The indictment against their son now labeling him a federal fugitive, only reveals a sliver of information in the case. Okay, Michael Ruiz joining me from Florida. Michael, in the middle of all this, they think their son could be out in Carlton Reserve killing himself. They get in their

Dodge Ram. Isn't it a Dodge Ram? Kind of a burgundy Dodge Ram. And they drive all the way to Orlando, which I think is about an hour and a half away from their home-ish. And en route, they stop at a public library. Of course, they're being told by the Lord only knows who, but certainly the Daily Mail was there. And apparently, they go in the public library and they're, you know, wandering around. And then I think they see a reporter and very quickly after that, they leave. What do you think about this theory that they went to use the computer at the public library, probably under a fake name, to text or email Brian Laundrie on his brand new burner phone.

Think about it, Michael. That's certainly something you could do at a public library and a good way to use the Internet anonymously. So, you know, that's something to take a look at. And for the burner phone, you know, we haven't confirmed that there's a burner phone. But I can tell you this. Brian Laundrie and Gabby petito shared a spotify account and we reported on it a couple days after she was reporting missing and since then that was about two weeks ago the the account has changed and all of the playlists on this account were had names you know and they were it was about mountain climbing and you know isolation and things like that and they had these names that

were relevant i guess to the music in them. And now they're all unnamed. So someone changed that. And we know it wasn't Gabby. So who logged into this Spotify account and changed that is a question that, you know, if the answer to that may be. You're so right. What about it, Cheryl?

Jump in. I mean, I'm just learning that. But I think that is tremendous. And again, I think that's very telling to who would manipulate this whole thing, who would change the music, who would send a bogus text, who would go home on the first and act like nothing's going on for another 11 days. And he doesn't go missing until I believe the attorney says, I've got to meet with him. I've at least got to meet with him over FaceTime, if nothing else. And when they can't produce him, suddenly he's missing. But I'm going to point out again, mama never reported him missing Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,

Thursday, Friday till Friday night. Can I also point out something else, Wendy Patrick? You know how much high profile lawyers charge. The day that the parents leave home and drive to Orlando, it's about 150 miles away from their home in Sarasota County. The lawyer flies, flies from New York to Florida specifically to meet with the parents. Now, when you get a high-priced lawyer on a plane flying from New York to Florida to meet in an obscure location, there's a reason, Wendy. Yeah, there's definitely a reason that's going to be one expensive lawyer. But the reason is to be able to have the kind of advice that it almost seems like they had before in terms of would they be liable personally. Remember, one of the easiest charges to prove in cases like this is lying to authority. These parents refused to speak to investigators in the early days of this

probe, and that would make it hard to use that kind of a charge that is much easier to prove. I've got some new evidence for you. Is everybody sitting down? You may need to lay down for this one. It was undercover agents, believed to be the FBI, followed the laundries into the Orlando Public Library and hovered, perusing 80s dance CDs in a Colombian art installation. Though it's not clear why they were in the library

because they certainly did not check anything out. We can make our own deductions why they were there. Again, if they wanted to kill time, why not just go to the McDonald's drive-thru and get some of the best coffee in the world that doesn't cost $8 a cup? Why not that? Why go and wander around the public library forcing the undercover cops to peruse 80s dance

CDs in the Colombian art installation? I mean, you think they were there for the Colombian art, Cheryl, for the 80s dance CD collection? A lot of parents, when they fear their child has committed suicide or is missing, nothing's going to come for them like some 80s dance music. Okay, what about it, Wendy Patrick? Could the parents, if, big if, if they intentionally misled police trying to find laundry, would they face charges? Yes, in that case. That is exactly what the issue is going to be.

Did they know and did they intentionally attempt to prevent the police from finding out the information they need to find Brian? That's the tough thing to prove, but it also would be an explanation for all the conduct we've been explaining, including the foray into the public library where there are options of untraceable communication. So yes, under those facts, they do have something to worry about, and that money spent on that lawyer would be well spent. Of course, maybe they were just hiding out in there waiting for the lawyer to show up, but they waited around 30 minutes, did not look at a single book or display, ignoring requests, of course, from the Daily Mail. Where were you, Michael Ruiz? Were you hung up in the 80s CDs?

So when they were in Orlando, I was actually, I had just got to Northport, and I was kind of getting the lay of the land here. That was sarcastic, Michael. You don't have to tell me where you really were. I know you were not looking at the 80s CDs.. So Michael, Wendy, what was your final answer? Yes, no, could they face charges? The answer is yes, under the fact that you laid out if they knew and they intentionally prevented the police from learning what they need to do to find Brian. And Dr. Angie, do you think they care if they're going to face charges? I don't know. I mean, I don't understand how these people do not see how we see how we see their actions.

I'm wondering, are they just dumb? No, I don't think they're dumb at all. They're they're very successful business people. They're not dumb at all. But, you know, I'm telling you, Michael Ruiz, you're there in Northport. Do they let the shades down where nobody can see what's going on inside the home? Oh, yeah. That home is dark. You know, everything's closed. You don't see them. You don't see any activity. And, you know, they were mowing the lawn at first, but it's starting to get

a little bit tall compared to the neighbor's grass. So they kind of spent a lot of time doing I don't know what in there where we can't see them. Well, really, honestly, do you blame them? I mean, I don't want Michael Ruiz with his long lens at the edge of my lawn looking in at me when I'm walking by in my shorts and t-shirt. Do you blame them for letting the shades down? So yes, it's dark, but you know, they've got to know they're being tailed every time they leave. So, final word, Joe Scott Morgan? You know, I've been thinking about, you know, what are the odds that he actually has a burner from, Nancy? I would say pretty good because they had about a week to get ready.

They knew what had gone down. Yeah, and how did he get it into his hands? Did the, did the attorney facilitate this? You know, did he show up from New York with, I don't know, three burner phones? I think they would have already had them because he went on the run on September 11th. And this is the, this is the interesting thing. Again, I go back to this kind of manly thing that they're talking about where he's,

you know, the modern day Daniel Boone. He's attached to mommy and daddy. He's totally depended upon them. I don't think he's walking around untethered out there. He has to be connected somehow, some way, either through the attorney or through the appearance or maybe vis-a-vis the attorney then to the parents. I have no idea. There's some kind of triangulation thing going on there. But how do we get that with a stingray?

How do we get that? If the parents use a burner to call him or receive his call, the only way to get that, to grab it, is by how, Joe Scott? Yeah, I think that that's going to be. And, you know, the cool thing about it is. Are you saying yes, stingray? Is that what you're saying? I'm saying stingray. I think that that's going to be, and you know, the cool thing about it is. Are you saying yes, Stingray? Is that what you're saying? I'm saying Stingray.

And also, I think that the feds have to be able to zero in on this signal. You know, what's the combination? Are they on these people? Are they watching them, you know, like, you know, gravy on rice? Well, I can tell you the answer to that, Cheryl McCollum, is yes. If they endure the ADCD mix, mix well then they'll do anything go ahead quickly they either knew or should have known the minute he showed back up without her and they sat there for 11 days ignoring her mama's please to please tell me where she is is she okay they knew as soon as Gabby's mama started begging them for information.

They helped him and there's no doubt about it. He can run, but he can't hide. He will be caught. Tip line, there's a $30,000 reward out there. 800-CALL-FBI, 800-225-5324. Laundrie, we're coming after you. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.