Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mariah Woods update: Investigators await autopsy report before filing more charges in toddler's death

Episode Date: December 6, 2017

North Carolina investigators are waiting for an autopsy report before deciding who, if anyone, will be charged with murder of little Mariah Woods. Her mom's boyfriend Earl Kimrey is already in jail on charges of dumping the toddler's body in a rural creek. Nancy Grace continues her focus on Mariah's story with lawyer and child advocate Ashley Willcott, investigator Vincent Hill, lawyer and psychologist Dr. Brian Russell -- host of Investigation Discovery's "Fatal Vows" -- and reporter Amanda Thames with Jacksonville's The Daily News. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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CircleWithNancy.com. Offer code NANCY. Thank you, Circle, for protecting our children. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. The search is still on tonight for three-year-old Mariah Woods. The girl was last seen by her mother at her home in Onslow County. The mother tells me she last saw her daughter in the home at around 11 p.m. when she checked on her.

This is my world. This is my angel. She said her boyfriend saw the toddler around midnight when he got up, and she says he told her to go back to bed. Remains believed to be the little girl were discovered along a highway. Now there's an arrest. 32-year-old Earl Kemery, Mariah's mother's boyfriend, no one is charged with causing her death. Kemery's charges only include conce's boyfriend, no one is charged with causing her death. Kemery's

charges only include concealing a death and obstruction of justice. More charges likely to follow and maybe others charged. We are not ruling anything out. The body of a three-year-old little girl has been found face down at the bottom of a creek 25 miles away from her home. And right now, more questions than answers as the family prepares for a funeral. A funeral to be held in the next hours for this beautiful little girl. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and we want answers. Joining me, child advocate Ashley Wilcott. Investigator, former Nashville PD, Vincent Hill,

Dr. Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist, and Amanda Thames, reporter for the Daily News of Jacksonville, North Carolina. Starting with you, Amanda, thank you for being with us. You know, I'm just curious as to what authorities mean when they say they believe more charges are coming. Before you answer that, Amanda, can you take it from the beginning for people just joining us as the story of Mariah Woods unfolds? Amanda, it all started when the mom called 911 around 6 a.m.? Yeah, absolutely. That's when everybody was kind of alerted to the situation.

She called the sheriff's office around 6 a.m. on Monday, November 27th. And the sheriff's office went out there, and a few hours later, the Amber Alert went out, and all of the reporters locally called onto the story, and we started trying to figure out where she was. And the whole thing kind of snowballed from there with new leads coming out, press conferences throughout the week, all of us kind of chasing down where law enforcement was searching for Mariah at.

A huge search party that came out. We had, I believe they had more than 1,000 people show up to try to search the woods to help, and we're only able to have about 700 volunteers just because of the search area that they had already scheduled out for people to go out in. And then everything came to a halt this weekend when, on Friday night late, Earl Kimrey, Mariah's mother's boyfriend, was arrested in connection with her disappearance.

And her remains were found about 25 miles from her house in Pender County. And we learned at a press conference that she had been found on Saturday night. And since then, we've all just been waiting for a murder charge to come out to see if that's going to be something. Yeah, I'm waiting on that, too, because her body is still with a medical examiner right now, and we, as we wait for the funeral for this little child to start, the fact that the funeral is about to happen in the next couple of hours means that the body has been released from the medical examiner, which means, ergo, they have a cause of death or they're stymied and they can't get a cause of death.

Amanda Timms joining us from the Daily News of Jacksonville, North Carolina, to Ashley Wilcott. The words that Amanda, how she described it, is true. The way it all started spinning out. I'm curious as to how they found the body, Ashley Wilcott, 25 miles away. And the fact that they had to bring in the Fayetteville, North Carolina, dive team tells me this was no shallow creek bed. This child was thrown into an expanse of water deep enough to hide her forever. But they found her one way or another by bloodhounds, by scent dogs, by aerial view, which I doubt, by a tip, which is more likely. Ashley, what is the holdup after the explosive documents detailing accusations the live-in had been molesting the little girl with mommy's knowledge, according to the documents? Those are allegations.

What are we waiting on, Ashley? You know, I have to say this. I don't, I'm certain law enforcement is in the know of what the results of the autopsy are and what information is out there about what happened. I suspect that the issue is he's in jail. He's got a million-dollar bond. So the kid's not getting out of jail in a good way, right? So leave him there.

In the meantime, it means that law enforcement, DA, can be very deliberate to ensure that they charge him with every single crime that applies. And so we're not looking only, in my opinion, at potential murder charges. I'm sure, given the disclosure that this man has been sexually abusing and torturing a three-year-old, there are going to be many charges. So good for law enforcement for being deliberate, and the district attorney and everyone else who's likely involved to say, hey, what do we need to charge him with? He's not going anywhere, Nancy. Thank God he's in jail. He's not getting out of jail. So let them take their time. Having said that, I suspect we're going to get charges very soon.

Let me go to Vincent Hill, investigator, former Nashville PD. Vincent, I've got a question for you. Let's talk about what Ashley Wilcott just said, that they're taking their time. These allegations, Vincent Hill, if you look at the Child Protective Service documents, I believe were brought by the father, whom I have spoken with many times, Alex Woods. Now, right now, what cops could be doing, her siblings are in protective service custody. They could be interviewing the boys, the siblings, to find out if they knew of any molestation in the home. And if they can give any eyewitness account, and if they can, that would be the grounds for a child molestation charge. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. I'm sure investigators are interviewing those two siblings, I believe ages five and nine or ten, to find out exactly what

happened in that home. And as we said on our previous show this past Monday, as I said, you know, the fact that little Mariah was dumped into a bed of water, it always told me that there was possibly some attempt to wash away any DNA evidence to cover up any sexual molestation. And now there's that claim, that allegation. So I think the puzzle is put together of what happened inside that home. And to Ashley's point, he's not going anywhere. So investigators can take their time, be very meticulous. So when they charge him, it definitely sticks. I want to go to Dr. Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist, author, and host of Investigation Discoveries, Fatal Vows.

Dr. Russell, thank you for being with us. I always try not to put children on the stand if I don't have to, but in this case, if the state wants to prove these molestation charges against the live-in, Earl Kimrey, her body may not yield any DNA evidence, such as sperm or saliva. It's been in a river bank. That will leave us with eyewitness testimony, possible outcry made at the time. Maybe she told somebody, probably not. So how do you go about talking to these two little boys? Remember, Earl Kimmery behind bars right now on a million-dollar bond. I'm going to go back to Ashley on that, about how he could possibly make bond.

But, Dr. Bryan, first of all, how do you unlock the secrets these two sibling brothers may know about what happened to Mariah? Remember, they were there that night. They may be witness to a lot more than molestation. Well, yes, I shudder to think what those kids probably saw in that house because I can't imagine that what happened to little Mariah is the first horrific thing that occurred in that house. Having said that, I think there's kind of a presumption that many people make that taking a child into a police interview or into court and having them talk about horrific things like that has got to be traumatic and additionally damaging to the child. And I think I can understand why people think that and there's merit to that.

But I also think that there is some case by case basis that has to be taken into account because I think there are cases in which it has actually been quite helpful to people, even quite young people, to be part of the justice, to be part of seeing that the world does care about horrific things happening to children and does want to do something to the perpetrator and to make it right. So I wouldn't necessarily say for sure that it would be detrimental to the kids to have to talk to the cops and potentially even testify in court. But like you, my preference would certainly be that we don't have to talk to the cops and potentially even testify in court. But like you, my preference would certainly be that we don't have to risk it because there's just such overwhelming evidence or we ultimately get a guilty plea or something like that.

Well, I can tell you this, Dr. Brian Russell. I agree and disagree. I'll tell you why. I was a witness in a murder trial when my fiance was murdered, and I still remember it to this day. It's one of the few things, it's a blur. I can't remember a whole lot during that time, but I do remember taking the stand, and what happened to me on the stand and in that courtroom really changed the course of my life. So when you're a child, I don't think it would be a good thing for you to have that memory in your head that you testified in your little sister's murder trial and had to detail her molestation in front of a group of strangers.

On the other hand, Dr. Russell, I'm glad I testified. And I know a lot of crime victims, and these boys are victims if they live in an abusive home. Because I know i did what i could do to fight that crime to fight back against what happened to keith i went to court i waited day after day after day and i went in and went through the drama and the trauma of testifying about his murder and and I will never forget it. Did I like it? No. Would I do it again? Yes.

So as the years roll on, Ashley Wilcox, you're the child advocate. While it may be a horrible experience, you know you did the right thing. You didn't sit back and refuse to testify or not show up. You went in and did what you could do for Mariah, your sister. So in that way, it could be good for them. Now, of course, there's new, well, not really new. There is Supreme Court law that they could testify in a different room and not have to see the jury and the jury would see them in real time on video. I doubt that would happen. Ashley, what about the possibility of other suspects? In this particular case, let's talk specifically about mother. And she knew she had to have known there's no possible way in the small home in which they lived, with all of the

circumstances we've now learned about with the child, with the disclosures by someone in the home that this mother did not know. So I think she too is a suspect. And I would have to submit that I think law enforcement must be pretty confident as to her current whereabouts, because I think, again, they're being deliberate in taking their time to do this right which they've done since the beginning of this case to ensure that they know exactly what happened so they can make all the charges against her and that they can ensure those charges stick. On the scene is Amanda Timms reporter with the Daily News of Jacksonville, North Carolina. Before I go to her for the possibility of other suspects being involved, take a listen to this.

Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that has saved a wretch like me. That is sound from vigils. Two vigils already planned to honor Mariah's short life brought so brutally to an end. The funeral happening in just hours. We are investigating every possibility in this case and right now we are focusing on the cause of death. What will it reveal? Also, will it point to a particular event? Will it point us to in the right direction as to how she died? Not just where she was disposed of like trash? Will it implicate another suspect?

Did someone aid in a bet? What do we know, and will her tiny body reveal clues that we can use forensically as we wait for additional charges and possibly another suspect to be named? As we investigate, I want to thank our partner making this possible. Circle with Disney is making our program possible today. We all know the internet offers so much for our children, a world we didn't have when we were growing up. But there are corners of the internet. I don't want my children there. I don't want them there. It's dangerous. And it's hard to monitor what my twins are

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and I can do my work. I don't want them researching missing and murdered children. I don't want them seeing my research about crime and knowing what this world can be. I want them looking at funny cat videos and Roblox and Minecraft. That's what I want them to be doing. This way, they're safe from scary parts of the Internet, but Mom and Dad can still use the Internet to get their work done. Use this offer code NANCY at circlewithnancy.com. That way, you get $10 off your Circle and free shipping. Again, circlewithnancy.com. All. Again, CircleWithNancy.com.

All one word, CircleWithNancy.com. Offer code Nancy. CircleWithNancy.com. Offer code Nancy. $10 off your Circle and free shipping. I want to thank you, Circle, for making my home safer, for this offer, for money off for other people, and for being our partner today. To Amanda Thames joining us along with Dr. Brian Russell from Investigation Discoveries,

Fatal Vows, Vincent Hill, investigator from Nashville PD, and Ashley Wilcott, a very well-known child advocate and lawyer. Amanda, they keep saying that they're waiting to name other suspects, potentially. What's going on with the investigation? What do people expect? And where is mom during all this? I know yesterday mom was with Alex Woods, the father. They were at the funeral home planning Mariah's funeral. Most of the services are kept private, but they do have the one public visitation this evening. And besides that, the only other place that we have actually spotted her was when she was escorted by a deputy back to the trailer. And this was when they were taking

the crime scene tape down. We had a reporter out there at the scene, Mike McHugh, and he went over to try to ask her questions, but she declined to speak with us. But besides that, I spoke with Sheriff Hans Miller yesterday. He said that there is a lot of information that they're gathering right now, but they're not releasing it at this time. I asked him if he felt that there would be additional charges this week, like potentially a murder charge in connection with her disappearance. And he said at this time that it's too early for him to go into details with it, and that he wants to keep his investigators investigators eyes and ears open for any possibilities. To Ashley Wilcott, child advocate and veteran lawyer, Ashley, I thought about a lot of

permutations under which the mother could be charged and again she is not a person of interest, she is not a suspect. For all I know she had no idea what was allegedly going on in the home. But according to these documents, Ashley, she did know. It specifically says in one of the paragraphs, the mom knew what was going on in the home. I'm referring to the molestation. How would you or would you pursue a felony murder charge against a mother if she knew about molestation in the home? Well, as we know, so a murder charge, a felony murder is if the murder results of the commission of a felony. And so in this particular case, the child molestation itself and failure to protect could rise to the level of a felony. So certainly I think there'd be sufficient evidence to say it's

a felony murder. The other thing I just have to add, Nancy, when you ask me about suspects, listen, I think we all can assume someone knew where the body was dumped. Someone had to have known that. And who was it? Was it the mother? Was there a friend? Was there somebody that, you know, dad or the boyfriend was buying his drugs from? Who knows who knew but someone had to have known where that body was and there had to have been a tip in order for law enforcement to actually locate that body so

there may be a whole host of suspects if the mother didn't know anything and wasn't aware of that i suspect that there was somebody else who knew who told law enforcement so i think we're looking potentially really at a bevy of suspects. You know you're right and as long as people are talking that means that information is flowing which is going to add to search warrants and affidavits and probable cause. Ashley do you expect for murder charges to be added this week? I do and well this week I'm not certain on piece, but I absolutely believe they're going to result. And again, I have to reiterate a million dollar bond. I am so proud of the court that heard the evidence to say a million dollar bond, because in effect for most Americans, that means he's not going to be able to get out of jail because that's a huge bond amount. So I think the reality is because he is in jail

and we know he cannot commit any additional alleged offenses against anyone else during this time period, then they have the luxury, my word, not theirs, the luxury of doing a super thorough investigation before additional charges are pressed. But I think eventually we're absolutely looking at murder charges. Amanda Timms, reporter of Daily News, Jacksonville, North Carolina. Kimmery, the live-in, was also charged with larceny, stealing something. How or does it relate to the murder? That's one thing that we're all wondering right now. He allegedly went down the road to an abandoned house and stole two dressers.

We don't know where those dressers are or what connection it has, except that the alleged larceny was on the same night that Mariah disappeared. That's the only connection we've been able to make so far. To Vincent Hill, investigator and former Nashville police officer, Vincent, let's talk about a hypothetical mom, not this mom. If a mom knows that child molestation is going on in the home, and then a child dies, in my mind, that sets them up for a felony murder charge. A death occurs during the commission of a felony. What about this theory? I'm thinking about charging alternatives, Vincent.

If drugs were being used in the home and a death occurs, would that qualify under the law for a felony murder, especially if the perp was using drugs at the time the child dies? Yeah, Nancy, I would say it definitely would. I mean, first of all, in North Carolina, it's illegal not to report child abuse. So if the mother didn't know, then absolutely, she's at fault. But of course, if there was drug use in the home and you're putting that child in danger, that's aggravated child endangerment. And if something occurred during the use of those

drugs that led to the child's death, then absolutely, I think you definitely have a felony murder case here. I do want to touch on something that we just discussed about the larceny charge. Now, a lot of times what investigators will do, because I've done it myself, if I don't have enough evidence to present to a district attorney to get a certain charge, I can charge that suspect with what I know will stick to make sure he stays behind bars. And given his criminal history from the past, he has other larceny charges and a few other charges. You know, investigators probably wanted to make these charges, present these charges, so that they can at least hold them until they can build that solid case for what we know will eventually become the murder case for Mariah Woods. You know, too, Dr. Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist,

host of Investigation Discovery's Fatal Vows. Dr. Russell, I want to talk about the possibility the mom, in this case, is going to be charged. Right now, again, let me give this disclaimer. She is not a person of interest. She has not been named a suspect. We're going on the facts that we know that we have learned from Child Protective Services formal documents and court documents. When a mom knows, a hypothetical mom, knows that crimes are being committed in the home and then a child turns up dead. That's devastating, Brian.

I think most people listening to us who have children can't imagine, can't even conceive of knowing that their children were being abused physically, sexually, emotionally, whatever, and standing by and enabling it, doing nothing to protect those children. But unfortunately, I have to tell you, it happens all the time. And I'm going to show you here what a bad example I am of a Christian because I hope there is a special place in hell for parents who stand by and because they're interested in maintaining own, maintaining their own relationships, their own romantic life, sex life, whatever, they stand by and let their children be victimized. Having said that, I don't think there is a good enough special place in jail oftentimes for those

people because you charge them with something like, even if it's aggravated, child endangerment. A lot of times that's not the kind of, if it's a felony at all, it's not the kind of felony that can precipitate a felony murder charge. So I'm hoping that at the very least in this case, if it turns out that this mother knew, and if I had to bet, I would bet that the answer to that is yes, I can't imagine that horrific abuse was going on under that tiny roof without her knowledge, that there's at least some kind of an obstruction felony that can be charged, you know, having to do with the way that she, you know, appeared, presented herself as not knowing anything about what might have happened to Mariah

during the initial stages of the investigation, because at least that kind of a conviction would keep her out of the lives of those other kids until they're adults. You know, I want to go to Amanda Timms, reporter with the Daily News of Jacksonville, North Carolina. I've been doing a lot of research on where her body was found. I think it was Holly's Shelter Creek where Mariah's body was found. You know, just recently, the North Carolina government, the NCWRC, was seeking input on an alligator management plan. I don't know if you're familiar with that, but that just went down because alligators had attacked pets around Lake Waccamaw State Park. And I'm wondering about the lake itself.

It's Holly Shelter Lake. And it's easy enough to do. You go online and you see all sorts of images of Holly Shelter Lake, excuse me, Holly Shelter Creek, and it looks straight out of one of those movies where you would expect to see alligators because some of the shots are lined with tall trees, swampy areas, there's trees out in the middle of the water. I'm just wondering, based on what I know about the area and about, it was just this summer that NCWRC was asking people for input on an alligator plan. Was the intent to have this child's body totally disposed of, with the body going down to the bottom of the river and an alligator getting it? I mean, what can you tell me, if anything, Amanda, about the alligator plan or alligators in that area?

We definitely have alligators in the area. We've had multiple spottings of them around the area since I started at the Daily News a couple of years ago, including some walking past the Holly Ridge Police Station. We've had one that was a very small one that was sitting outside Jacksonville City Hall, and we've had multiple sightings in Snead's Ferry as well. So I can't speak to whether that was the intention of having her body in the creek, but I can say that we definitely have alligators here. Well, you know, I can't tell you how many times, Dr. Brian Russell, you're the host of Fatal Vows. I don't know if you read my last book, but I was inspired by a threat I put on my husband all the time that I'm going to stuff his pockets full of hot dogs

and take him for a tour of Okefenokee, which which is teeming with alligators and in my last book somebody actually did die being pushed into a gator at a gator farm pushed into the water and i've actually had cases brian where victims post-mortem have been disposed of in swamps with the hope that an alligator would destroy the evidence. Yeah, I actually talked to some TV people in the past year about potentially doing a show where we would test some of these kinds of things, kind of in a Mythbusters type of a way about, you know, could that work? Could it work with an adult? Maybe it could work not with an adult, but with a child, and all kinds of various theories and ways that

people have come up with. It's crazy when you look at all of the different ways that people have come up with over human history to try to dispose of bodies. But it's just so, again, additionally disturbing to think about how a human being could look at another human being as such a disposable object as to be able to think about, well, maybe if I threw this body into some water where there were alligators, maybe I'll get lucky and it'll be eaten up by the alligators and then there won't be any evidence for anybody to come after me. Just that thought process alone is probably inconceivable to those who are listening right now who are just driving around in their car or sitting at home going about their day at

their office. And I want to tell all of you that that's a good thing. If you could relate to that kind of thinking, I would be concerned about you. You know, Dr. Russell, I don't know how people like Ashley Wilcott, Vincent Hill, me, you, Amanda, and so many others we have here in our program do it. When I was prosecuting Dr. Brian Russell, there were times when I left the courthouse, I'd actually have to pull off the road and cry. And the only way I could get through a trial, talking about the unspeakable cruelty people inflict on each other. I guess I learned to compartmentalize because in my mind I had to get through the trial.

I couldn't dare let a jury see my eyes tear up, you know, because then I would be weak compared to the fleet of defense attorneys on the other side of the room. It's hard, but when you actually think about it, Dr. Russell, as you were saying about this little three-year-old girl, and I will forever remember her in her pink outfits with her tiara and her big one. It looked like she had an actual bow you put on a gift, like a big pink gift bow, the kind with all the little curly ends coming out, stuck on her head. It's just so beautiful and precious and innocent.

And to think that someone could throw her in gator-infested waters, it's just really more, when you think about the reality of what has happened to this child, I don't know why people don't revolt and march on the courthouse demanding justice, because I can hardly talk about it, but I feel it's my duty, because that's the only way we're going to get justice, is if we confront what happened. And hold, I've got to thank my partner. I have to. I want to. Because they are making our search for justice possible. And one of our partners that I just love is Super Beats. When my son first heard I was involved with Super Beats, he went, Mom, those are too costy. They're $400. He thought I was talking about this really expensive set of earphones. He's all about

earphones. Super Beats, B-E-A-T-S. I'm like, no, my love. No. Super Beats, B-E-E-T-S. You know, speaking of the twins, wouldn't it be great to have all the energy you wanted all day long so I could, you know, run with them all day. But fatigue gets in the way even for everyday activities. I mean, if you're up at 5.30 every morning like I am by about 4 o'clock, you're dragging. It seems to get worse every year. And this is why when you're 20, your body has a natural ability to maintain healthy circulation. By age 40, now don't blow it, Dr. Brian Russell, but the twins think I'm 11 and a half. Don't mess it up. By the time you're 40, that ability has decreased by half and it leaves

you feeling tired. What can you do to get that circulation back and fight fatigue? Drink Super Beats. Listen, Super Beats promotes the body's own natural ability to produce healthy circulation, increase energy and stamina all day long. And only Super Beats is made from beets grown to very exacting standards and then concentrated into superfood crystals for us. So if you want to increase your own natural energy, call 800-516-0683 or go to nancysbeats.com. N-A-N-C-Y-S-B-E-E-T-S, nancysbeats.com. Catch this. With a first order, you get another free, free 30-day supply of Super Beats, plus these indicator strips to see how Super Beats are working for you, plus free shipping. You're not going to get that at the pharmacy. You're not going to get that at

your health food store. No. 800-516-0683 or go to nancysbeats.com today. In fact, I need to drink about a gallon right now because I need energy to get me through what I'm doing. And what I'm doing is talking about a beautiful girl, Alan Duke with me, Jackie here in the studio with me. You guys can remember my twins at age three. You both have children. At age three, they are completely defenseless, completely defenseless. And I want to go back to Dr. Brian Russell. You're not only a lawyer and a psychologist, a host on investigation discovery of fatal vows, but Dr. Russell, I mean, my natural instinct is to take care of the twins. To think that someone knew or anyone knew this child was being molested.

Now, you've got to take the allegations with a box of salt because they're coming from a dad that desperately wanted custody. But these documents are formal Child Protective Service documents. How can a mom or anybody for that matter stand by and let that happen, Dr. Bryan? Well, I imagine if she ends up on trial for something, the defense will say, oh, you know, she was very frightened. She didn't know that the guy was capable of this kind of behavior until he was already under the roof, and he had her constantly in fear for her own life. I don't buy that for a second. I

think that most, virtually every mother who had the instinct that you have and that normal mothers have to protect their kids above themselves would have done what it took to get their kids to safety in that situation. And I think that it probably indicates what I see most of the time in situations like that, which is, it's just, if you think about it, it's the height of narcissism to think about putting my own relationship, my own romantic life, my own sex life, whatever needs this person is meeting for me ahead of my children. Let me just quickly explain something to people. If you are a single parent and you are thinking about getting married again or bringing somebody else under your roof to be a partner with you, the chances of that working out are statistically awful. And we're not even talking

about crime here. We're just talking about the relationship working out much worse than the average chance of a relationship working out. When one or both partners comes into it with kids, there are all kinds of additional complications. Being a step-parent or step-parent figure is one of the most difficult roles a human being can play. And it is not a very far trip from the unhappy marriage divorce place to the fatal vows place. It really isn't in these kinds of cases. You just can't be too careful about who you bring into the lives of your kids. And what I would say to you is you've got to think about how is having this person in our lives good for my kids. And if, and just imagine coming before judge, judge, Dr. Brian Russell, and having to make that case. And if you can't make a great case for how this

person is good, not for you, I really don't care how good they are for you, for your kids, then you probably ought to think about focusing on the kids and doing your dating and resuming your romantic life after the kids are no longer minors would be my advice. You know, I want to go into, well, point well taken. I want to go to Vincent Hill, investigator, former Nashville PD. Vincent, how do police or sheriffs coordinate with the DA as we wait for Mariah's funeral to begin? That signals to me the medical examiner has released her body and should know

cause of death. How are police working right now with the DA to figure out what charges and whether they're going to be other suspects. Well, Nancy, clearly they're going off what the medical examiner said was the cause of death, which I would surmise to be homicide. Obviously, Mariah did not walk 25 miles and dive into this bed of water. So, of course, they're going to take that into consideration. They're going to take witness statements from inside the home, which could lead to other charges, you know, the aiding and abetting, failure to protect, failure to report, the aggravated child neglect, the aggravated child endangerment. So it's going to rely a lot on, to your point, the body has been released, so a cause of death has been determined. So that's

what investigators are relaying to the DA right now. We are gathering all the information that we know of, including Child Protective Service documents, search warrants. There's a lot. There's a lot going on. Now, we know that he, the live-in Earl Kimrey, has just appeared in court. We also know, and this is to Amanda Thames, reporter with the Daily News of Jacksonville, North Carolina, that his lawyer is Walter Paramore. Walter Paramore. And Paramore has apparently handled a lot of high-profile cases. What do you know about Walter Paramore? I know that he's great in the courtroom. He's a fantastic defense attorney. I've seen him on numerous, as you said, high-profile cases here in Onslaught County, and he knows what he's doing. Now, when you say he's great in the courtroom and he watched him,

what do you mean by that, that he's great in the courtroom? What I mean by that is that he speaks eloquently. He's very intelligent in the way that he goes about his cases. He knows what he's doing from the defense side. I believe he may have previously worked for the prosecution as well. So he has a background on both sides of the courtroom. And the way that he presents himself and presents the cases is very intelligent in the courtroom. Well, he's handled a number of high-profile cases. This is not his first time at the rodeo.

He knows what he's doing. And I'm curious, Dr. Brian Russell, not only psychologist but lawyer, you know Kimmery cannot afford Paramore. So how is this happening? How is Paramore on this case? Well, as I know you know this, but our viewers may be interested to know that in a lot of jurisdictions, especially if it's a big charge like murder, it's not necessarily the case that an indigent defendant just gets a public defender who is a full-time public defender. Now, and that is not to say that full-time public defenders in many cases are not terrific defense attorneys, because they certainly can be. But in many jurisdictions, attorneys who are in private practice can be appointed by the court, by the state, to take a case that especially is a high-stakes case like this and have their fees be paid by the state.

So think about that, folks in North Carolina, that you are going to be probably paying the bill for this high-priced, high-profile defense attorney. Well, this is what I know. He practices in North Carolina, and it says that he has been practicing criminal law as a specialist since 1995. Now, I don't know what that means as a specialist, because I don't know if that's a self-described specialist. Like, I'm a criminal lawyer, a criminal prosecutor, Dr. Brian Russell. I don't do wills and slip and falls, and I never have. And when you have a civil lawyer,

you don't want your grandma's probate lawyer handling your murder one trial or your drug trial. Uh-uh. No. That would be like asking a foot doctor to come in and perform heart surgery. Explain, Dr. Bryan. Well, that's right. If you think that you might have a heart palpitation or something, the podiatrist is not the person probably to ask about that.

And so you do, just like I always tell people when they're talking about, you know, needing a surgery or something. You know, you want to go to the person who has done that surgery a thousand times, 10,000 times. And so I think the same holds true here. And I think also what I would add to my to my previous answer is that there are cases in which highile defense attorneys we saw this with the Zimmerman case in Florida will come forward and want to take on these cases for a greatly reduced fee or potentially sometimes even a waived fee because of the publicity that it gives to their practice. Back to Amanda Thames reporter with the Daily News with Jacksonville, North Carolina. Amanda has the mom lawyered up yet?

Not as far as we've been able to confirm. Interesting. Back to you, Dr. Brian Russell. The fact that the mom has not gotten a defense lawyer, it looks good for her. She doesn't think she needs a defense lawyer. Well, potentially, or it may just be that she hasn't been charged with anything, and you've got to be charged with something before you can get a public defender appointed. That's true, but I guess there's a whole line of lawyers that would be willing to step in, Brian, to represent the mom just for the notoriety of it. Probably.

So to Amanda Thames, we know that the funeral is happening in the next hours. That means that the natural father, the bio father, Alex Woods, is going to be there with the mom, Christy, who was in the home. Many people believe at the time Mariah was killed because if you look at the search warrant Earl Kimrey is charged with taking the child's body to be disposed of from the home which means you know if you reason it out that she was killed in the home so he's gonna be there in the funeral home with the mom who many people believe were in the home when the daughter was killed Amanda yes ma'am from my understanding they are all going to be in there together for the public visitation this evening they've been working together trying to nail down all of the funeral arrangements together it was a struggle from what Alex was saying yesterday when I spoke with him one-on-one

but it seems that they did come to a resolution on everything yesterday. I'm just thinking about this, Dr. Russell, about what Alex Woods is going through, because in his mind, he makes it very clear in these court documents that the mom knew the baby was being molested and that there are witnesses to it. That is what he says. Again, she's not a person of interest. She's not been named a suspect. But he is there in this setting with this woman. Dr. Russell?

Do we know, Nancy, whether or not he is also the father of the other children in the house? Yes, I think he is, of the two boys. Because one of the things that interests me is that apparently those other children are now in the custody of Child Protective Services, and I just wonder why they are not with him, and maybe there's a great reason for that, but it makes me think that the entire situation is probably complicated. It's probably unfortunate in multiple ways, would be my guess. Having said that, absolutely, I think that there would be tremendous feelings of certainly anger at the mother and the boyfriend who's accused here, potentially also feelings of tremendous guilt for

having not been able to do more to protect this little girl, the deceased Mariah. So yes, I imagine that the father is going through all kinds of hell at this point. The children, the siblings are with the grandmother, so they're not in some foster care situation. And the father can see them. I'd like to find out more about it too. This is what I know. In the last hours, Kimmery, the live-in accused of

disposing of a body and withholding information from North Carolina law enforcement about Mariah's death, said absolutely nothing in court. Now, there was a move afoot to reduce his bond, but the judge maintained 32-year-old Earl Kimrey's bond at $1 million. Now to make bond on that, you have to get a bonding company to help you, and you have to put up at least 10%. That'd be $100,000 he'd have to come up with, either cash or collateral, to get out.

Again, Kimmery officially charged with hiding three-year-old Mariah's body, knowing she did not die of, quote, natural causes, and disposing of it. Right now, prosecutors not releasing any new details, but a high profile lawyer, Walter Paramore, also said nothing. Now, that's hard for a lawyer to do, Brian Russell, to keep his yap shut. I think it speaks to probably the skill and well, and just the experience of that attorney to know that the facts so far as we know them look very bad for the client. And so probably and we don't probably have all of the charges yet that are coming would be my guess. And so that was probably exactly the

thing to do from a defense standpoint. And it's one of those things where I imagine most people listening, if they had to pick a side in this case, would be pro-prosecution. You have to keep in mind that in situations like this, we have to say allegedly, and he's innocent until proven guilty, and he's entitled to a defense and all of that. Right now, we are waiting to discover whether additional suspects are going to be named and additional charges filed. I want you to hear something. I want you to hear as we ponder whether another person will be named as a party to this crime. Take a listen to Mariah's mother. Please bring her back and I love her. I'll do anything

that I can, whatever you want. Just bring her home, please. Safe as sound. She's my baby. She's my everything. What does she mean to you and your family in this community? She's like an angel. I had my tubes tied and burnt on each side. I fell down. I was pregnant with her. So we call her our little angel. She's got the personality of make you laugh. She's goofy, outgoing, talkative. She knows how to make your day brighter.

A lot to this community and people that are here looking for her. Love her to death. What would it mean to you to see her face again? Everything in the world. Just to be able to touch her and hold her and not let her go again. Like if anything. Talk to Onsla County Sheriff Department please and let us know and if whoever has her please I'm begging you bring her home safe. I want to pause and thank our partners making today's program possible. 1-800-DENTIST. If you're like everybody else, you are really overindulging over the holiday with sugary treats, you need to call an awesome dentist

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you are doing, giving people a beautiful smile at an awesome price. And thank you for being our partner today. As we wait for baby Mariah's funeral to commence, we also are waiting for additional charges and suspects potentially to be named. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.