Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Massachusetts Mom Searches "Ways to Kill," Strangles Her 3 Tots Dead With Exercise Bands

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

When Lindsay Clancy’s third child is born, her recovery seems to be different.   The 32-year-old reaches out to her parents and her in-laws to help her manage the children and things around the home. Her husband, Patrick Clancy sets up a home office in the basement to work remotely, so he can be on hand to help. When Lindsay starts to have thoughts of suicide, and worse, hurting the children, she checks herself into the McLean Psychiatric Hospital,  Five days after checking into a psychiatric hospital Lindsay Clancy is reportedly told she doesn't have postpartum depression. Husband Patrick Clancy tells friends that after her hospital stay, Lindsay seems to be getting better. She is sleeping better, interacting with friends and family, and going out in public without any difficulty. When Patrick Clancy asks his wife if she is having any suicidal thoughts, Lindsay Clancy says "No."    Later on in the year, with his wife having been prescribed at least 13 different medications, Patrick Clancy texts a friend saying he’s concerned that Lindsey has been prescribed too many medications. Patrick allegedly told friends that he worried she was suffering “the worst side effects possible” from one of her prescriptions. He says he thinks she is going through benzodiazepine withdrawal.    On a Tuesday afternoon Lindsay Clancy sends a text to her husband to pick up takeout.  As Patrick Clancy leaves to pick up dinner, Lindsay sends him a text to stop off by the drugstore and pick up some medicine for the children.   Patrick Clancy stops by the drug store to pick up the medication but gets confused as to exactly which medicine to buy. He calls Lindsay Clancy on the phone, but she doesn't answer. She calls back a minute later. Patrick says she sounded like she was in the middle of something. Lindsay answers his question about the medication and Patrick picks it up and heads to the 3V to get their dinner.  When Patrick Clancy comes home, he’s met with silence. He finds his wife in the backyard. She had jumped out of a second-floor window after slitting her wrists. The children are in the basement,  strangled, an exercise band still wound around their necks.   Investigators revealed in court papers that Lindsay Clancy allegedly researched "ways to kill" before the deaths of her three children.  Clancy is in a hospital ward, paralyzed after her second-floor fall, and faces three counts each of murder and strangulation.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Darryl Cohen – Former Assistant District Attorney (Fulton County, Georgia) Former Assistant State Attorney (Florida), and Defense Attorney: Cohen, Cooper, Estep, & Allen, LLC; Facebook: “Darryl B Cohen;” Twitter: @DarrylBCohen Dr. Angela Arnold – Psychiatrist, Atlanta, GA; Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women; Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University; Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital; Voted “My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice of 2022” Brian T. Gill -  Former 30-year Boston Police Detective, Owner of BTG Investigations in Hanover Massachusetts; FB: BTG Investigations, LinkedIn: Brian T Gill   Dr. Michelle Dupre– Forensic Pathologist and former Medical Examiner, Author: “Homicide Investigation Field Guide” & “Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide”, Ret. Police Detective Lexington County Sheriff’s Department Julie Lewis - President & CEO, Digital Mountain, Inc. Flint McColgan - Boston Herald Reporter; Twitter/X: @FlintMcColgan   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young mom strangles all three children dead with exercise bands? Three children ages five, three, and just seven months? How? Why? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and Sirius XM 111. I want answers. I want the right thing. So let's start at the beginning. Listen. The defendant took her five-year-old daughter, Cora, to the pediatricians for an appointment. She interacted with a receptionist, nursing staff, and a doctor. There were apparently no issues with the defendant's demeanor or behavior as she completed

the appointment and was allowed to leave with CORE without any issues or concerns. When she returned home, she went outside with CORE and her three-year-old son Dawson to play in the snow. They built a snowman. The defendant sent photos to her mother and to the defendant, abstract that to her husband. She texted with them. Nothing in the text was out of the ordinary or any sign of any distress or trouble. Okay. She went to the doctor, the pediatrician. The doctor noticed nothing unusual. She left with the baby, Cora, five. She goes home, builds a snowman with the son. Everything's fine.

And then why, hours later, this? Listen. knife is or whatever she used to slit her. She's in the, looks like they're hanging around the back. We'll get that info now. She did use a knife at first. I don't know where that is at this time. All we're hearing about is her. Where are the children? Listen.

I'm on the way. We're with the county. All three children are dead. That's what that means. Why is she at the doctor seemingly normal building a snowman and then the next thing we know all three children are dead. How did police end up at the scene? Joining me in all-Star Panel to make sense of what we know right now, we're talking about mom, Lindsay Clancy, who strangles all three children dead with exercise bands. Joining me again, All-Star Panel, but first to Flint McGulkin, Boston Herald reporter. You can find him at bostonherald.com. Flint, tell me about police arriving on the scene and what they saw when they first get there. So when police arrived,

they've been called by Patrick Clancy, Lindsay's husband, and they find Lindsay in the backyard underneath the master bedroom window about 20 feet down. And while Patrick said that she was probably not currently breathing at the time, she was covered in blood. She was clearly injured, but she was conscious and she was alive. But there was clearly, she would later, it would be determined that she had spinal injuries, that she had some severe injuries and had tried to kill herself. So there was blood in front of the mirror in the bedroom. But she lived. But she did live. Yes.

And what about the children? The children. So Patrick said that he. Lindsay, where are the children? Because, uh, he came home to an empty, a quiet home and she said in the basement and he went down there and, uh, as can be heard in some emergency communications, he starts screaming because he goes down to the basement, which is a finished basement, it's where he does his work. He works from home in the basement and, uh his children all, you know, purple and blue with exercise bands around their necks. So the two older children would be pronounced dead that night. And little Callan,

who would turn eight months with it before dying a few days later. I want you to hear more of what we now know leads up to a triple homicide of little children. Listen. The defendant searched on her phone, kids Miralax. She then searched at takeout 3V via her cell phone at 4.13 p.m. Immediately after doing that, she used Apple Maps on her phone to determine how long it would take someone to drive from her home in Duxbury to 3V Restaurant in Plymouth. So she would know how long someone would be gone if they were in that errand. She next went on the CVS website at 4.47 p.m. and then called CVS on Summer Street in Kingston.

She spoke to the manager of CVS and asked if they had the kids' Marilax. The manager told her no, but they had other similar medications. According to the manager of CVS, her voice did not sound slurred or impaired in any way. She had no trouble understanding the defendant, and it was a perfectly normal conversation. Okay, let's analyze what we're hearing right now. Joining me, Flint McGulkin, Boston Herald reporter, along with an all-star panel, Dr. Angela Arnold, a renowned psychiatrist joining us, and Daryl Cohen, high-profile lawyer, former prosecutor. You can find him at Daryl B. Cohen on Facebook. Daryl, thank you for being with us. I'm sure you just heard, as I did, a tiny bit of the information

of what led up to the murders of three children. Daryl, you have children, as do I. Five-year-old Cora strangled dead. Three-year-old Dawson strangled dead. Three-year-old Dawson strangled dead. Seven-month-old Callan strangled dead with mommy's exercise bands. But leading up to the murders where the children were brought systematically down to the basement reminded me a great deal of Andrea Yates, who systematically, one by one, brought her children to the bathtub and drowned them, starting with the most powerful child and then going down because she didn't want to be stopped by the powerful child, the little boy, including a month's old baby. As I recall,

her name was Mary. And even Mary was covered in bruises as she struggled against her mother who was holding her under the water. Andrea Yates also made sure her husband was gone before she committed multiple murders. Waiting for him to go to work, watching him leave, locking all the doors so she could not be disturbed, then murdering them and lying them all out on the bed to be found soaking wet and dead. Did you hear Daryl Cohen that she did a search on her phone for kids Miralax? She called the pharmacy asking about it. Then she even planned takeout at Upscale 3V restaurant. Perfectly sane, Daryl. Nancy, what appears to be perfectly sane, obviously was not. This woman, whatever happened, whether it was planned in her mind,

days, weeks, hours, minutes before, committed one of the most heinous acts I have ever heard. And I've heard a lot. Can I just quickly remind you of what you learned in your first year of law school and which you argued to many, many juries before you became a defense lawyer. All right. And then suddenly you forgot the law because the law says you must not know right from wrong at the time of the incident to be insane. This woman researched ways to kill.

She knew she knew right from wrong. If she didn't know right from wrong, she wouldn't have been as meticulously planning it as she apparently was. And I know this sounds harsh. I know this sounds harsh. I understand that. I understand she jumped from a second floor bedroom. Yeah. I get it. And she may immediately regret the deed. But the law is the law. And if she knew right from wrong at the time she murdered three children, then she is responsible. Did she have postpartum psychosis? She may have.

But does that make her insane? You can all hate me as much as you want, but someone has to do the right thing for these three children. Nancy, I don't hate you. I agree with you. And it's hard for me to agree with you sometimes, but I'll be honest with you. She knew right from wrong. There is no insanity here. There may have been moments of lucidity problems. There may have been moments of insanity, but this was an overall planned evil attack on three innocent young, basically babies. They had no chance to live. And this woman was not insane. This woman needs to be punished under every possible way the law can do it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Brian Gill is joining me, a former 30-year Boston police detective. This happened in Duxbury, Massachusetts near Boston. Owner of BTG Investigations and you can find it at btginvestigations.com. Brian, how many thousands of times in your career did you realize there's no good answer? There's no answer that you like. I mean, I really learned it in my first violent felony prosecution. Not my first prosecution, because that was an attempt at shoplifting, but my first violent felony. Because, yeah, the jury handed down a guilty verdict, but nobody was happy. The victim's family was devastated. The victim murdered. The defendant, of course, was miserable because he's going away for life.

There is no good answer. There is no good answer for mom, Lindsay Clancy. Do I feel heartbroken for her? Her children are dead and she did it. That's pure hell right there. But I have to look at this through the eyes of a lawyer. And we have to do our duty, which is sometimes very hard to do. I agree, Nancy, 100% with what you're saying.

It is. It's unimaginable. I don't think there's anything that we could do that would really make it worse on Lindsay, what she's going to have to live with. I agree with what people have been saying so far today, too. I look at it, and all the planning that went in in and we see the searches, how to kill and sending the husband on the ride. But then I think one of the things that really jumps out at me is when she's in the hospital and it's prior to the arraignment and on her whiteboard she writes, do I need an attorney?

Okay, whoa, wait, wait, wait. Brian Gill. I researched this heavily. I didn't know that. Could you slow it down? And could you tell me that one more time? What? Yes, if you watch the arraignment, that's one of the things the district attorney says, is that on the whiteboard in her hospital room,

a nurse alerts the police and says that she wrote on the whiteboard, do I need an attorney? So that to me shows the knowledge of what happened. This is, you know, this is actually after the fact a few days later when she's being arraigned, but still to write that down is a clear indication that you know what you've done, but we just discussed right and wrong. Do I need an attorney? You don't ask that question unless you know that you've done something wrong. As a matter of fact, Brian Gill, okay, number one, you've seen it all. I always think I've seen it all. All the years I prosecuted and covered cases from all around the world, Daryl has seen it all. As a prosecutor and a very well-known prosecutor, I might add, I

got to the district attorney's office on the tail end of his tenure there and highly, highly respected. Dr. Angie Arnold, renowned psychiatrist. Dr. Michelle Dupree is joining us, who shot to fame during the, dare I say his name, Alex Murdoch case. It's a leading pathologist in our country. Julie Lewis is joining us. We need her to talk about digital evidence. She's the president and CEO of Digital Mountain, Inc. Of course, Flint McGulkin joining us with all the facts and brian gill but brian that is a fact i cannot ignore i cannot ignore it when you are faced with the life and death of your children i've actually believe it or not got jumped in front of them when a car veered off the curb, a big truck actually speeding near our church where we were out

playing when they were little. You don't think about you. You think about them. I mean, and there's so many examples of moms that have lifted cars, that have taken a bullet, that have fought off, you know, a pit bull to save their child. And this woman is in the hospital writing, do I need an attorney? While her children, it's two days after the murders, they're dead. And she's thinking about herself. As a matter of fact, take a listen to our cut one. You're hearing Jennifer Sprague. On Friday, January 27th, 2023, using an erasable whiteboard because she was still temporarily intubated, one of the first questions that Lindsay Clancy asked was, do I need an attorney?

She knew that she had murdered her children and she had the clarity, focus and mental acumen to focus on protecting her own rights and interests. OK, everybody buckle up. Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. And she not only is a professor of psychiatry, her specialty is dealing with one of her specialties, dealing with postpartum. Now, also, she was just named as my Buckhead's best psychiatric practice of 2023. And I got to tell you, Buckhead, Georgia, where all the rich people live, it is dripping with psychiatrists. Those rich people got a lot of problems.

So she has been voted the best psychiatric practice of all of those shrinks. So Dr. Angie Arnold, I don't know what that really means, but I guess that makes you the queen of the shrinks. But that said. You're just like you're the queen of crime, honey. Yes, right. I don't know about that. But, Dr. Angie, I think I know what you're about to say.

I'm pretty sure I'm not going to like it, but go ahead. Hit me. Go ahead. Nancy, every time we hear one of these stories. It's not a story, number one. It's not a story. Case. Cora not a story. Case. Cora, five, is real.

Dawson, three, is real. Callen, seven months, is real. They're in caskets. They're under the ground with snow on them. And every time one of these things happens, everyone gets as enraged as you are. And I see that what we're talking about today is, the only thing we've talked about is the incident forward. The incident forward, okay? I want to look at what led up to this.

I just told you what led up to this. You heard Sprague tell, you know what? I'm glad you said that. I'm so happy you said that. Listen to this. I'll cut four. The defendant texted her husband who was working in his home office in their basement. She texted any chance you want to do takeout from 3V. I didn't cook anything. It's been a long day. This was an unusual request as when the family ordered takeout, they'd usually go somewhere closer to home but it was a place that they had been in the past. Patrick Clancy texted back yes and then the defendant asked him to check the menu. At 5 o 6 p.m. the husband texted the defendant asking what she was going

to get. She responded, a Mediterranean Power Bowl. She spelled it correctly, and it was something that was on the menu. He then told her that he wanted the scallop and pork belly risotto. At 5.10 p.m., the defendant called 3V Restaurant to place the order. She got the order correct. She gave the correct name for pickup, Patrick. The hostess who took the call said there was nothing out of the ordinary about this call. She was able to understand the defendant, that her voice was not slurred or impaired in any way.

Yeah, she even knew enough to order one of her favorite meals from this Tony Upskill restaurant, a Mediterranean Power Bowl. And, you know, if I asked my husband, let's do takeout. There's no way. And this, he graduated from Wharton with an MBA, please. But he cannot do a drive-thru. They're like, what did you just say? Much less order. I mean, off a menu. No, I have to do that. Long story short, she got this order, scallop and pork belly risotto, Mediterranean power. She got it all right and spelled it correctly. What about that, Dr. Angie? She was just getting him out of the house. He was there working in his at-home office. Please leave so I can murder the children. That's right. And he did. Had to go all

the way across town for her so she could murder the children. Thoughts? Nancy, when people come to, when they have decided that they are going to do a plan like that, they're very calm. They know what they're going to do. But I still want to talk about what came before this. I want to discuss how many times she went to the doctor because of how she was feeling, the medication she was on, what led up to this. I am not asking for anyone to say she was insane, but this woman was sick. She may be sick, but that doesn't mean she's not guilty. I'm looking for my, oh my goodness, I just found it. Her list of medications. Joining me, I want to follow up on what you're talking about because I cannot ignore those facts, Dr. Angie.

You're right. And if it goes toward proving to me that she was insane, then she should be treated in a mental facility and not go to jail. It's just that simple. I don't want an insane person in jail. I don't want that. But I want a sane person that killed three children behind bars. Flint McGulkin is joining us, a veteran Boston Herald reporter. Flint, these are the meds I've got. I've got their clinical names, but here are their street names. Ambien, Klonopin, Valium, Prozac, Lamictil, what's that? Ativan, Remeron, don't know what that is. Seroquil, don't know what that is.

Trazodone, heard of it, don't know what that is. Are there any more that you know of, Flint McGulkin? I've got the list right in front of me i've got a very similar list it was in a different order so i hope i didn't miss anything just give me your list real quick then we'll ask dr michelle dupree about what they are nancy just fyi i can tell you what each one of those medicines is for and why is your name dr michelle dupree no but this is my special it. No, it's Dr. Angie Arnold. Okay. Okay, well, you just go on, and I'll let you and Dr. Dupree fight out who's more of a special doctor. But, Flint, do you have any other meds?

Just give me your list real quick. Certainly. The one from my coverage that I've taken out here, Clancy, Zoloft, Valium, Trazodone, Ativan, Klonopin, Prozac, and Seroquel. And then I think others that I didn't. Yeah, that's my list. Yeah, I didn't have Zoloft. Dr. Michelle Dupree joining us, forensics pathologist, medical examiner, detective, author of Money, Mischief, and Murder, The Murdoch Saga, the rest of the story. And it ain't over yet.

Dr. Michelle, you may have to do an addendum. I will. But also writing the book, Homicide Investigation Field Guide and a second book, Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide. Dr. Dupree, since Dr. Angie's specialty is psychiatry, let me ask you about your specialty. How did the children, the three little children, die with these exercise bands? Why clinically are they blue when Daddy finds them? Nancy, they were strangled, basically.

That's the term. And the oxygen was cut off to their brains because they were strangled with the exercise bands around their neck. But when you have any lack of oxygen, don't your lips or your fingertips, parts of your body begin to turn blue and why? Yes, they can absolutely do that. And again, it's because that when that blood supply is cut off, your blood carries oxygen to parts of your body. And so because the oxygen is cut off, then you begin to turn blue in those places. What would the children have experienced? It would have been frightening. Not only would it have been frightening because they were being strangled and couldn't breathe, but because they would see their mother doing this. That's the part that just frightens me. The last thing they saw was their mother, someone who was supposed to take care of the children to protect them,

is now killing them. One by one. I guarantee you we're going to learn she brought them down their single file so one could not stop her from killing the other okay dr angie you asked for it you got it you tell me about the drugs because it sounds i don't even know what some of those drugs are they sound terrible so nancy when i looked at when i looked at the drugs and she had been to she had been to a couple of different psychiatrists and it looked like at one point she had even checked herself into a hospital. When you see that many drugs that are trying to treat anxiety and depression and a couple of the drugs, the Seroquel is an antipsychotic. That is usually what we use for anxiety and also if someone is a little bit out of touch with reality and

they're not thinking clearly, we'll use Seroquil in a postpartum mother. And Lamictal is a mood stabilizer. You know what? I'm sorry, Dr. Angie. I got to write this down. It's just too much. I'm just a JD. What's Seroquil? Seroquil is an antipsychotic. Okay. Go ahead, please. And Lamictal. Lamictal is a mood stabilizer. Okay. What's Ativan? Ativan is a benzodiazepine, which is used for anxiety and sleep. Okay.

And what's Remeron? Remeron is another drug that is used for sleep. And Prozac? Prozac is an antidepressant. Valium? And Zoloft is an antidepressant. Valium is a stronger medicine that's used for sleep and anxiety. Wait, what's Klonopin? Klonopin is a long-acting benzodiazepine. Please don't talk that way to me. What does that mean? It means that it lasts longer than Ativan. Ativan will last. What is it? It's for anxiety. It's for anxiety it's for anxiety nancy and ambien ambien is simply for sleep and trazodone sleep

ambien you said is anxiety or sleep sleep and trazodone sleep was she taking all of this flint mcgulkin so these were drugs that she had been prescribed at various times. I think she was prescribed only four of them at the time of the murders. And in fact, blood work showed that several medications were in her system. But Sprague argued that they were in, most of them were in safe therapeutic doses, but that the Seroquel, the antipsychotic, was in a higher dose. All those other drugs she had dabbled in over an eight-month period. Can we also talk about her digital trail? She left tracks a mile wide. Take a listen again to ADA Jennifer Sprague. Patrick Clancy headed out the door to run these errands at the defendant's

request. As he left, she texted him PDLX liquid stool softener. Surveillance footage shows Mr. Clancy at CVS on Summer Street in Kingston at 5.32 p.m. He goes to the medication aisle, the children's medication aisle. Phone records show that he called the defendant at 5.33 p.m. and she did not answer the phone. She then calls him back at 5.34 p.m. and the call lasted 14 seconds. He's there at the store unsure of which medication to get, and she tells him exactly what she wants. He had no issues communicating with her.

It was a completely normal call, although he did mention that she seemed like she was in the middle of something. He is on surveillance footage during this time, exiting that aisle and appeared to be using his phone. He then heads to the register, makes his purchase and leaves the store at 5.37 p.m. Yes, she was busy. She was getting those exercise bands and it leads to this. Listen. When he arrives home, the first thing he noticed was the silence. He did not see or hear the defendant or the children. He actually called her cell phone at 6 or 9 p.m. looking for them, and she did not answer. He went to their bedroom on the second floor, and the door was locked. He was able to open it, and when he looked inside, he saw blood

on the floor in front of a full-length mirror and the window open. He immediately runs downstairs and into the backyard, where he finds the defendant laying on the ground. She appeared to have cuts on her wrists and neck, but he stated to 911 that those wounds were no longer bleeding. She was conscious. He called 911. During this time, he asked the defendant, what did you do? She responded to him, I tried to kill myself and jumped out the window. During the 911 call, Patrick can be heard asking the defendant, where are the kids? He later told police that she replied, in the basement. So immediately after this happened, she knew what she had done and she

knew where the kids were. And more. When EMS arrived, he asked them to stay with her so he could go find his kids. The 911 call kept going. Patrick can be heard on the 911 call entering the home and heading to the basement. At one point, he calls out, guys. He can then be heard screaming in agony and shock as he found his children. His screams seem to get louder and more agonized as the time passes. Cora and Callen were on the floor in the den area of the finished basement, which is to the left when you walk down the stairs. While Dawson was alone on the floor in his father's home office, which is to the right when you go down the stairs. Each child still had the exercise band that was used to strangle them tied around their necks when their father found them.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace when ems arrived he asked them to stay with her so he could go find his kids the 911 call kept going patrick can be heard on the 911 call entering the home and heading to the basement at one point he calls out guys. He can then be heard screaming in agony in shock as he found his children. His screams seem to get louder and more agonized as the time passes. Cora and Callan were on the floor in the den area of the finished basement which is to the left when you walk down the stairs, while Dawson was alone on the floor in his father's home office, which is to the right when you go down the stairs. Each child still had the exercise band that was used to strangle them tied around their necks when their father found them. To Flint McGulgan, describe the scene. Dawson and Callen face down on the floor, Cora on her side,

her torso turned toward the floor, and dad had to remove the exercise bands. Is that correct? Yes, it is. And there were a lot of the police, the first responders there also had to take time off from work because of how horrific the time was, including a children's resource officer that usually works in schools who was taking on a shift that night. But yes, so it was down in the basement. There were the children were on the floor, black, purple and blue, and the older ones would die that night. Julie Lewis is joining me, president, CEO of Digital Mountain Inc. You can find her at digitalmountain.com. Julie, if you were investigating this case, what would you be looking at regarding a digital trail?

Yeah, when looking at this case and reading the case background, you know, this went sometime back to September 2022. And so there would be things that we would look at, for example, the Apple Maps when she went to CVS and she went and picked up dinner. We'd be looking at the computers in the browsers for keyword searches that she was running across the devices. My understanding, there were three devices and we would be analyzing, for example, she was looking at how to murder her children and also to look at a pattern. Was she using social media? Was it text communication, communicating her state of mind? Social media could be a really important part of this and her communications on Instagram

or Facebook or whatever social media platform she was using. I know she used hard copy journals, but there may be some notes in there about her state of mind and in particular different circumstances as well in a digital footprint of that. We'd be looking at the CCTV and video footage, not only at CVS, the restaurant. There may be video footage on Ring that may be relevant for this. But in today's digital world, most of us are communicating all our activity and there could be a lot of information about how she was feeling when. Not only that, the psychiatrist's office, there might, as attorneys, you could subpoena

that information to find out what was known when. Could this be prevented in some way? She was returning to work, so that was happening in September 22, which may have triggered a lot of anxiety, you know, raising three kids. I don't know. I'm a mother. That's a lot to multitask. There's no excuse for what she did, but getting ahead of it to prevent the incident in the first place. But lots of digital evidence to figure out the story of what happened when.

I'm very curious. Speaking of the digital trail, Flint joining us from Boston Herald. What were her searches that are concerning to prosecutors? She had done searches regarding like mental states about how she was feeling about how she felt about her children and the depression she was feeling and something about how to deal with, if you were, I'm trying to think of which word she used. It was like how to deal with being, like she was questioning whether she was becoming a sociopath, but it had to do with, I think she was feeling, she believed that she was feeling postpartum depression and a lot of the searches had to do with that. But she was clearly doing searches based on strange feelings.

She was having a better children. The Massachusetts mom accused of killing her three children checked her Apple Maps app to make sure her husband, whom she sent to pick up dinner and meds, would be away long enough for her to strangle her children before he returned. Other details regarding her searches are very, very disturbing. What do you make of that? She says she, quote, killed the kids because she heard a voice and had a, quote, moment of psychosis. Nancy, what I make of that is that this was a very sick woman and her postpartum depression was not being treated appropriately. I am not blaming anyone for that, but she was ill.

And I don't know what she was on at the time. If she were on a two, I just want everyone to know that if she were on too high of a dose of Seroquel, Seroquel makes people very, very sleepy and it slows them down. I don't believe that that could be blamed for her actions, okay? But Nancy, she was sick, and I know, Nancy, I feel like I have to be the advocate for these women that I take care of that suffer so horribly from postpartum depression. And believe me, Nancy, it scares me every time one of them comes into my office because they're scared to tell me how they really feel, what's really going through their mind, because they're afraid I'm going to throw them in the hospital. But more than that,

they're scared of the thoughts that they're having. And it takes months of intensive psychotherapy and the right types of medication to get them better. Okay. Someone was trying to get her better, but it sounds like she was going to different places to make that happen. And that's typically not a good thing. So she was doctor shopping and getting more meds. Maybe she was feeling so bad that she would go to somebody else. You know what, Dr. Angie, I appreciate everything you just said. But yes, no, Dr. Michelle Dupree, doesn't it take about four minutes to strangle each child? Yes, Nancy, that's about right.

And the thing is, you know, once you're strangling them like this, it's with an object, a ligature, they'll pass out. If you keep strangling them, that's when they'll die. Four minutes per child. So, Dr. Angie, you said you feel it's your duty to represent the moms suffering from postpartum. I feel it's my duty to speak out for the children that were murdered, specifically Cora, Dawson, and Callen. As Brian Gill and I were discussing, there is no good answer, but we have to find the right answer. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.