Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mayhem in the Morgue : He’s Alive!

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Starting point is 00:00:28 May I suggest you watch you watch. a movie, maybe something like Frankenstein. Welcome to Mayhem in the morning with your host, Dr. Kendall Crowns. Today's episode, He's Alive. There has been a case that has been recently all over the internet, social media, and of course, multiple news outlets. It's the case of Vincent Lorenzo B. Ordelino. He is an 18-month-old. He is an 18-month-old. toddler that was found alive in a hospital morgue. On today's episode, I'm going to go into his case, discuss the known facts at this time, and also discuss other cases in which someone woke up dead in the morgue, as well as my own experience with this phenomenon, which is known as the Lazarus Effect.

Starting point is 00:01:22 So let's get started. On February 8th of 26, Super Bowl Sunday, the Patriots were playing the Seahawks, and a group of people were having a Super Bowl party at their house in Arizona, as well as thousands of other people across the United States. Sometime during the game, the host of this party's son, 18-month-old Vincent, slipped by everyone and ended up in the backyard swimming pool. The pool's temperature was under 60 degrees, and he was believed to be underwater for approximately five minutes before he was discovered. So let's stop right there.

Starting point is 00:01:59 This is not an uncommon occurrence at parties where there is a pool and a lot of people. The people are talking, loud music is playing, people are focusing on an event like the Super Bowl. There is often alcohol and occasionally drugs, especially marijuana involved. People are distracted and inebriated, and if there are children about, they may not be being watched. For children, ages 1 to 4, drowning is a leading cause of death. Statistics from the Center for Disease Control show most drownings in this age group occur in swimming pools, often because they are unsupervised, and 80% are male.

Starting point is 00:02:39 Another factor is pools with missing or ineffective fences. It has been shown that a child's risk of drowning decreases by 83% when there is proper fencing. I see this every year, especially during summer. The situations change, but the outcome is always the same. No one's paying attention to a child or children, and there's a pool, and they end up drowning. And that's, of course, what occurred in this case. He drowned.

Starting point is 00:03:07 He was again underwater for approximately five minutes. Drowning is a form of asphyxia, and it is defined as a process of experiencing respiratory impairment from submersion or immersion in a liquid. There can be three outcomes associated with drowning. Of course, the main one is death. You can have non-fatal cancer. that have associated impairment or injury, then there can be non-fatal drownings with no consequences at all. I, of course, see the fatalities at the morgue, and I see the non-fatal with associated impairment or injuries, because some of these patients eventually die, especially if they ended up with severe brain injury and being ventilator-dependent.

Starting point is 00:03:49 When a person drowns, there are reportedly five stages, depending on the source, associated with the process. these stages are stage one, which is the struggle to keep the airway clear of water. When people are forcibly submerged, like in a sinking boat or a car that goes off the road into a lake, this phase may be non-existent. It can also be relatively short in individuals who can't swim, lasting 20 to 60 seconds at most. In situations where a person can swim initially, the phase will not start until the fatigue sets in from trying to tread water and the person eventually slips underneath it, and that begins stage two, which is initial submersion and breath holding. Once your head goes underwater, you begin

Starting point is 00:04:36 holding your breath, and how long you can do this depends on you. You may be very athletic and able to hold your breath for a long period of time, or you may be someone who smokes and has COPD and can't hold your breath long at all. But how long stage two lasts is dependent again upon how long you can hold your breath. And typically, most people can last about 45 to 90 seconds. And in warm water, this time frame may be longer, and in cold water, it is shorter. But once you can no longer hold your breath, stage three begins when breath holding ends. And the brain forces you to breathe because of the increasing hypoxia or lack of oxygen to your brain and your body. The brain needs to have oxygen, and it needs to survive. So it forces you to take in air.

Starting point is 00:05:25 even though you're not in an environment that has it. When this occurs, water enters into your mouth. You swallow and gulp it, and you also inhale it into your lungs. This also causes the individual to gag and vomit, throwing up the water that was just inhaled and swallowed, and then breathing it back in and swallowing again. This process continues on until the individual loses consciousness. And that's when stage four begins.

Starting point is 00:05:52 Once there is enough oxygen deprivation, the individual goes unconscious, but they're still alive. They're floating in the water, with the brain still attempting to breathe, but aspirating water. And that's what occurs for the next three to five minutes or so, until the individual dies, which is stage five. After about three to five minutes, the anoxic brain injury becomes irreversible, and breathing and circulation cease, and the person is dead. how long it takes is usually about three to five minutes but it can actually be extended in individuals falling into colder water and they can last a much longer time period this is more likely than not what happened with vincent by the time he was found he was unresponsive face down in the pool nine one one was called law enforcement and paramedics arrived began resuscitation and transported them to a medical center where resuscitation was continued to no avail and he was declared dead by a doctor. It has heard on a police body cam recording, the doctor's stating,

Starting point is 00:06:59 No objections, I'd like to call time of death. And then he declares Vincent dead at 6.20 p.m. But before this declaration, the parents, officers, and nurses pointed out signs of life in the child to the doctor. And at 6.26 p.m., six minutes after the declaration of death, The mother is heard saying, he's breathing, is that normal? And a nurse is heard stating, I have a pulse. And an officer noted that toddler was still possibly breathing because he could see the chest and stomach area rising and falling. The doctor told one officer he was the doctor. He has the medical degree. He went to medical school for a reason and to let him do his thing. He, or possibly a nurse, described the breathing being seen as agonal breathing. Agnal breathing is an automatic reflex from the brainstem. Normally, your brain tells your body to breathe automatically. But when a major medical event happens, like drowning, the lack of oxygen to the brain causes anoxic damage. And as a last-ditch effort to survive, the brainstem triggers a desperate reflexive gasp. Unfortunately, because the heart isn't pumping blood, these gasps do not bring enough oxygen into the body. It often looks like gasping or gulping that looks like a fish out of water that results in strange noises like snoring, snorting, or gurgling, and slow irregular movements where the person seems to struggle to catch their breath. It's the body's last attempt to survive, and it can last a few seconds to minutes, but it cannot sustain life and often perceives complete respiratory rest and death.

Starting point is 00:08:45 Vincent was eventually taken to the hospital morgue and placed in the cooler. He was made a medical examiner case probably due to the circumstances surrounding his death and, of course, the drowning. The medical examiner transporter that takes the body from the hospital to the medical examiner's office showed up around 1152 p.m. 5 hours and 32 minutes after the doctor had pronounced Vincent dead. They found him alive and breathing, and he had a pulse. The transporter from the medical examiner's office immediately alerted medical staff and Vincent was transferred out of the moor and airlifted to a children's hospital in critical condition, where he spent several days in an ICU. Following intensive treatment, he was ultimately discharged to his family. An initial MRI showed potential brain damage, but later testing confirmed he avoided any permanent brain damage.

Starting point is 00:09:43 and at this time he continues to receive extensive therapy and breathes with the assistance of a ventilator and requires ongoing medical monitoring. The family is reportedly planning legal accident against the attending physician and the initial medical center, and we'll see what happens with this case as it continues on. Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month, price guaranteed for two years, on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. There is a term for what happened with Vincent in the medical literature, and this term is the Lazarus Effect, also known as auto-resuscitation. It's named for an individual

Starting point is 00:10:37 in the Bible named Lazarus of Bethany, who is a close friend of Jesus Christ. He is famous for the miraculous event where Jesus resurrected him from the dead after he had been in a tomb for four days. It has been reported that from 1982 to 2022, there has been 76 cases of the Lazarus effect worldwide. I was able to find a few of these on the internet, so let's discuss a couple of them. The first occurred in Iowa in 2023, where its 66-year-old woman was in an Alzheimer's Heimer Special Care Center since 2021, and then transferred to a hospice care facility in December of 2022. Her health was diminishing, and she was dying. And on January 3rd, around 6 a.m., she was pronounced dead when staff members noticed her mouth was open,

Starting point is 00:11:33 her eyes were fixed, and there was no breath sounds. The staff member could no longer feel the woman's pulse, and she was not breathing at that time. This staff member alerted a nurse practitioner who made the death declaration. The funeral home was then called, and when the funeral home director arrived, a licensed nurse practitioner placed the woman's body inside a body bag and zipped it shut. They both said, quote, there were no signs of life at that time. Two and a half hours later, at the funeral home, a worker unzipped the body bag and saw the woman's chest moving.

Starting point is 00:12:11 She then gasped for air. The worker called 911, and paramedics arrived, and when first responders arrived, they were able to record a pulse and breathing. The patient was then returned to the care facility in which she initially was declared dead. She survived for another two days, and then died with her family by her side. The next case occurred in August of 2020. This one was a 20-year-old woman in Detroit, Michigan with cerebral palsy. She was mistakenly pronounced dead by paramedic. after her family had called 911 because she was in respiratory distress. She was in her own home,

Starting point is 00:12:51 and despite her family trying to convince the paramedics that she was alive, they declared her dead, placed her in a body bag, and sent her to a funeral home. At the funeral home, another funeral worker unzipped the body bag and was preparing the decedent for embalming when she gasped for error, opened her eyes, and her chest started moving. The work, worker called 911, paramedics arrived, and the patient was rushed to the hospital. But the damage had already been done. She had suffered severe brain injury from lack of oxygen and died two months later. So how does the Lazarus effect occur? To start, let's go into how a person is declared dead. By the time the decedent gets to the medical examiner's office or funeral home,

Starting point is 00:13:38 they have been evaluated by a medical professional, sometimes more than one, and declared dead. First, the person who determines it is a legally authorized professional, usually a physician, credentialed nurse, or a physician assistant. They assess the following things, the absence of pulse, usually by checking the pulse by palpation for a central pulse at the carotid or femoral artery, or they listen with a stethoscope for heart sounds over the chest. Next is breathing. They watch the chest and use a stethoscope to listen for spontaneous breath sounds for one to two full minutes. And finally, they check the eyes to ensure the pupils are fixed and dilated and show no response to a light reflex.

Starting point is 00:14:26 They also assess responsiveness by observing any reaction to painful or verbal stimuli. Once these criteria are met, the patient is pronounced dead. Brain death is another form of death, and determine it it is a little different. If a patient is on mechanical life support, pronouncement is based on the irreversible cessation of all brain function. This requires a special neurological examination to confirm coma, absent brainstem reflexes, and a positive apnea test, while ruling out confounding factors like severe hypothermia or drug intoxication. Of course, these methods are used in the hospital under controlled circumstances. Sometimes the decedents are pronounced dead at the scene, and this can be done, using the same criteria, absence of pulse or breast sounds, unreactive pupils, or no response to stimuli.

Starting point is 00:15:25 Also, if the individual is obviously dead, as in their heads exploded, or they're ripped to shreds with their body parts all over the street or train tracks, They can be pronounced dead right there at the scene, and this can be done by, of course, physicians, coroners, or medical examiners, as well as paramedics and EMTs. With all these criteria and steps in place, things can still occur, the results and the Lazarus effect. Usually what occurs is someone has been declared dead, meeting all the criteria that I just discussed, and in the patient suddenly shows signs of life, usually within 10 minutes of CPR. ending, and this makes it seem like they've come back to life, but the truth is their heart in circulation has not actually ever permanently stopped. The Lazarus effect may show up as a return of a palpable pulse or a heart rhythm on an EKG, or even an approved color of the body. Occasionally there may appear to be limited, purposeful movement. In most cases, the patient doesn't

Starting point is 00:16:32 survive very long. This rare occurrence usually happens after. after CPR has ended. But there have also been reports of it occurring in people who didn't have CPR performed on them at all. Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. There are a few theories of why the Lazarus effect occurs, and I'm going to discuss two of the main ones. The first one is that CPR may cause a lot of air to enter your lungs, causing hyperinflation of the lungs, meaning they're largely expanded, pressing on the heart, making it impossible for the heart

Starting point is 00:17:21 to beat or to circulate blood. And once CPR is stopped, this hyper-expansion of the lungs decreases and allows blood to flow back into the heart, and it can cause circulation throughout the body to resume, resulting in the person coming back to life. Another theory involves the medications giving during CPR, like epinephrine or atropine, things like that. Again, when CPR is stopped, the lungs decrease in expansion, and blood flow returns, suddenly these drugs that were administered intravenously can flow to the heart, kick-starting the heart and making it beat again. Hospitals actually have criteria to prevent the Lazarus effect from occurring, and these are performing CPR for at least 20 minutes, during CPR, taking steps to avoid hyperfinflation of the lungs, and then after CPR ceases,

Starting point is 00:18:18 monitoring the patient non-stop for at least 10 minutes before declaring the patient dead. I have never experienced a case or seen an individual in which the Lazarus effect has occurred. One of my coworkers was so worried about this occurring. She actually had a stethoscope with her in the morgue. And with every case, just to make sure they were dead, she would listen to their chest for several minutes, checking for a heartbeat or breathing. I get asked the question, how do you know they're dead at autopsy often? And it usually occurs during career days. One time, I gave a very creative answer. I responded by saying, we've started. each autopsy by pinching the nose-clothes and covering the mouth and counting to 200. The audience was a group of seventh graders, and when I said this, there was an audible gasp.

Starting point is 00:19:14 The teacher quickly said, the doctor is kidding, kids. Isn't that right, Dr. Crowns? To which I said, yes, that is correct. I'm only kidding. I'm sure a few of these kids are still wondering if I was, and of course I was only kidding. Supposedly. Actually, at autopsy, I don't necessarily check for signs of life when I get started. When the body bag's unzipped, I document clothes, medical intervention, the clothing is then removed, and then I document the external surfaces of the body. And during this time, if an individual was breathing, I would notice their chest rising or their abdomen rising and falling. I also thoroughly check the eyes, and if there was a pupillary reflex to light, I would spot it thin.

Starting point is 00:20:03 And finally, when I start the internal examination when the first incision is made, if the individual was still alive, there would be active bleeding, and if this occurred, we would immediately stop and contact 911. So there are a number of things that could be seen during the autopsy to make us aware the individual was still alive. Finally, my grandmother used to tell me a story when I was a small child about how her father feared being buried alive, and it was her job to make sure that didn't happen.

Starting point is 00:20:38 I asked, how would she do this? And she said her plan was to stick a needle in his eye, because if you weren't dead, that would make you jump. She didn't get to test this theory, to my knowledge, because my great-grandfather died at a hospital and was declared dead by doctors. I do know she was the one that determined that her mother-in-law, my great-grandmother, was dead.

Starting point is 00:21:03 Everybody was so afraid of her that no one would go into her room when she finally passed away except my grandmother, who went in there, shut the door, and determined that she was dead. How she did this, no one has ever known, and my grandmother never told me. But I am sure there was a needle involved. And that brings us to the end of the episode. As always, I'd like to thank Car 55 for providing music for this show.

Starting point is 00:21:29 and Max Lodeen, the technical and audio editor for the show. And of course, my wife, Beth, for all her help with the audio and video portions of Mayhem and the Morg. I hope you learn something. And I hope you were entertained. Until the next time. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mayhem in the Morgue : He’s Alive!

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