Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - MEMPHIS: THREE CHILDREN'S SKELETONS UNEARTHED, DIG RESUMES

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

Memphis Police  investigating the discovery of skeletal remains  of three children, aged 3 to 7.  The remains where found a dog walker who initially found a  skull. Days later police recover an 14 additional bones from a drainage pipe.  Police believe the remains may have been in the area for several years. Investigators used cameras, and cadaver dogs conducting  intense searches of drainage systems The investigation is ongoing with no suspect. Memphis officials  urge anyone with information to contact Crime Stoppers at 901-528-CASH.   Joining Nancy Grace Today: Dr. Bethany Marshall  - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away,” She is also featured on Peacock and Bravo, www.drbethanymarshall.com , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive  Dave Moyer  - Georgia K9 Tracker, Master Trainer K9 Tracker, Former Deputy K9 With San Bernardino Sheriff Dept, Former Navy bomb disposal master technician  Joseph Scott Morgan  - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", Instagram @JoScottForensic Melissa Andrews  - Crime and Investigative Anchor  WTOL 11  Ohio, website: www.wtol.com  Insta: immelandrews FB: Mel Andrews Tik Tok: MelAndrewsTV  Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Live to Memphis, three children's skeletons, ages three to seven, we believe, unearthed. The Dig resumes. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

A dog walker discovers a human skull in a wooded area of Memphis, Tennessee. As police begins to... searching the scene, they uncovered two additional sets of remains believed to belong to children. In a stunning and grim discovery, three children's bodies have been found. The dig goes on in a remote area of Memphis. Listen, human remains were found in a heavily vegetated area near Ridgeway and Ridge Meadow Parkway. It's very close in proximity to where we are right now. At this time, there is no indication of any active threat to our public. This search operation involves approximately 170 personnel led by the Memphis Police Department's homicide unit

and is being conducted in collaboration with the Medical Examiner's Office with assistance from our federal, state, and local partners. Those agencies include the FBI, the Tennessee Bureau of Investigations, the Memphis Fire Department, the Shelby County Sheriff's Office, search and rescue, and the Shelby County Homeland Security Emergency Management. Straight out to Joe Scott Morgan, joining us just like Idaho, why did they always say initially there's no threat to the community? They don't know that? No, they don't. And I think that the big thing here, reason she might be saying that is that these are skeletal remains. If these were what we would refer to as the fresh dead, potentially. But here's my big question, Nancy, and I think that it's on everybody's mind right now.

Is this, in fact, a dumping ground? Or is this the deposition of three individual children that have been there for quite some time? Or is there more to this? So I think that as you pull back from this and you look at the bigger picture, you have to keep all possibilities on the table here. Let's start at the beginning. When officers responded to a suspicious person called in the 34 100 block of Ridge Meadow Parkway. An anonymous caller reported a possible human skull near a wooded area. Responding officers located what appeared to be a human skull at the edge of the woods. Well, actually, an individual in the community was just taking a walk. They were having a walk with their dog and they stumble upon what they thought could have been human remains or remains of an animal and just called the police.

the police and after further investigation, it was determined that what they found was human remains. Investigators, along with the medical examiner's office and Shelby County search and rescue, conducted a more thorough canvas of the area. During that search, cadaver canine units alerted to a nearby drainage pipe, indicating the possible presence of additional human remains. A drainage pipe, and that opens up a whole Pandora's box of not only evidentiary possibilities, what can be found as to who committed these three murders that we know of, but also the psychological aspect of putting a child's remains in a drainage pipe straight out to Melissa Andrews joining us, Crime Investigative Anchor, W-T-O-L-11. Melissa, thank you for being with us tonight. A drainage pipe. How did the whole thing start?

Well, it started when this woman who was walking her dog came upon this skull. And she immediately called the police. She said that she was very scared because it's not known to be a good area. She called the police. They got those cadaver dogs out. They found another skull. Those cadaver dogs hit on this drainage pipe. And that is where they found the other skull.

and then 14 other human bones. And they believe these are children's bones between the ages of three and seven, but they have no ID, no cause of death or sex. The woman also said that there was no tissue, no hair, or any visible wounds on that skull. Okay. Did you say, Melissa Andrews,

that the woman said that or authority said that? I believe that the woman was able to identify that there were no visible wounds to the skull no hair and no skin on that skull. Guys, the video that we are showing you now is from our friends at ABC. This is a shocking discovery in Memphis. There are over 200 bones in a human body. Melissa Andrews, how many bones did you say have been recovered so far?

14 at last check and also two skulls. I will never forget Melissa Andrews. when the body of little Kelly Anthony was found, and searchers worked into the night, through the night, over 24 straight hours trying to assemble all 200-plus bones of Kelly's body, including each little part of her fingers, her hands, all of the delicate little bones in her body, trying to put this child back together again.

It was excruciating. Those teams working through the night with spotlights on the earth trying to put Kelly back together again. And now it's times three that we know of. Dogs have been brought in. Joining us right now, Dave Moyer, Georgia Canine Tracker, master trainer of canines, former deputy canine handler with San Bernardino's Sheriff's Department

and former Navy Bomb Disposal Master Technician. Dave, thanks for being with us. Tell me from the very beginning, when you prep the dogs to take them to a scene like this, what do you do? Before you even let them out? Yes, the canines are highly trained and they're trained on a lot of very small items. So knowing that the state of decomposition for these remains, most of your handlers are going to go ahead and preface some of these searches by training up real fast on similar items that they have in their training library. That's other human remains that are in a similar state. So that's going to prime the dog to look for a very specific odor in regards to the decomposition level.

When you mean a very specific training for odor of decomp. These dogs are unlike scent dogs that are tracker dogs. What type of tissue do they hit on? Yes, ma'am, they are very similar to tracking dogs in that regard. Human odor is human odor, whether it's living or dead. These dogs are proofed off of any kind of animal decomposition, and they only alert on human decomposition tissue. Now, the way that I did it on the sheriff's department was I had three various levels.

I had what would be referred to as the fresh dead, also an advanced state of decomposition, and also the antiquated or skeletonized bone. So between those three subsections, it gives you a very good variety of the kind of human remains that you might be encountering. And training the dog on all three is critical. for the antiquated bone, it is much more difficult canines to find because there's more, I'm sorry, I misspoke, there's less decomposition odor with skeletonized remains than there is in a more advanced decomposition state. So that's why it's important to train on all three levels with the fresh, the intermediate, and the advanced or skeletonized tissue.

You're taking a look at an aerial that we have for you. The remains found there. We refer to it as remote. But when you look at it, Dave Matt, Crime Stories, investigative reporter, you see a busy thoroughfare. Do you see that? It looks like an interstate nearby there. What can you tell me about the area? And this is significant as we try to determine who these children are and who left them there. Nancy, Hickory Hill is a neighborhood in southeast Memphis.

It is south of Highway 385. And it sits between Riverdale Road and Mendenhall Road. Directly across the street from where the bones were found sits an elementary school and a church. So we've got a lot of areas for young people to be around on a regular basis. And an area that has had a lot of traffic from people, I mean, you know, not just cars. We're talking about a lot of people in and around this area for a long time. Guys, this aerial is telling me a lot. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Straight back out to you, Joe Scott Morgan, joining us, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Fe on Amazon, and Star of a Hit podcast series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, if you take a look, let's see it one more time, please, the aerial. very often when you are looking at the location, you get an idea, an idea, an educated guess, where the children came from and who may have left them there. If you look, you see that it's in a little community and it's being referred to as a remote area, but I guess they're saying that because it's in the midst of a group of trees, a grouping of trees where there's little foot traffic. but if you look all around, you see a lot, a lot more structures

where you see parking areas. This means this could be someone with knowledge of this area or, and this isn't helpful, I know it's not helpful, it could be someone that takes this route or knows of this route, doesn't live anywhere near it,

but thought, hey, that's a great spot to dump these bodies. And my initial question, which I'll sort of, back to Joe Scott, as we were discussing off air, I wonder, were the three children put there at once? Are they members of a family? Are they members of some group? Why haven't they been reported missing? Or have they been reported missing? If they have not been reported missing, that would suggest that a parent or a family member is involved. Yes.

Another thing where they put there all at once, or is this simply a burial ground where one child after the The next is killed and then separately disposed of there. You know, I got to tell you, Nancy, just looking at the aerial that we had there, you see those opportunities for access there. Just that roadway itself, Nancy, you see how it kind of curves out. You can pull over on the side of the road right there. Do you see that big, grassy area? And you could easily walk into that area.

You pull back from this and you look at the broader aerial shot on the opposite side, almost the same distance. If you split the difference from between that curve and the road, there's another structure that's over there. There's a large area where, you know, we're talking, Nancy, what they say, three to seven years old? It would be very easy to literally walk body in there. So I'm with you.

Here's the thing about it. When I first came across this case and I began to hear it, I'm thinking, okay, you know, everybody missing three children, raise your hand. And it's just so bizarre because of all the cases that we've covered, I don't remember covering a case like this. We've had the fresh dead with children. However, we're talking about skeletal remains. And Nancy, just as kind of a preview, they're not saying that these are recent. They're saying they could have been there for years.

That's what the media is actually reporting right now relative to what the police have said. So I'm thinking, how in the world did they wind up there? And to that point, how did anybody not notice it before now? Well, we know that the person, the individual that raised the alarm, first stumbled upon a skull, which tells me that there has been animal activity. In other words, they've been tearing apart the bodies. Melissa Andrews, isn't that correct? Yeah, Memphis Police have also said that they have looked through missing persons reports in that area. and there are no missing persons reports for children of that age.

So we don't believe that these are children from the Memphis area. And in fact, I looked on the National Missing Persons Database, and there are hundreds of missing children. 584 boys and girls missing in the U.S. ages three to nine. And your other guests mention three missing children. We have three missing children going back years here in our area. And I looked up some data. There are three siblings, boys.

And when you look at that National Missing Persons Database, there are 161 white boys, ages three to nine, missing, including five sets of brothers. And in that group is those brothers. And they are the Skelton brothers missing from Marence, Michigan. Interesting. Many people immediately suspected these are the Skelton Brothers remains. That has been ruled out. Is that correct, Dave Mack? It is, Nancy.

You know, the immediate jump to the Skelton brothers out of Michigan was shut down by police very, very quickly. Michigan State Police said they're not the children we're looking for. And you have to remember that the ages of those boys is 5, 7 and 9, whereas in this case, they're talking about the ages of 3 to 7. So back to you, Dave Moyer, when you bring the dogs out, what's the first thing you do? because I'm very suspicious that there may be more remains. Yes, ma'am. First thing you'd want to do in a situation like this is get well outside of the area

that's contaminated with all the other investigators that have been there. Taking a look at your weather conditions, I would work from the downwind side into that area and allow the dog to use its nose to maximum advantage. They're going to lead you to any kind of human decomposition that is in that area. Now, with all of these remains, in the same location, it's going to be heavily, heavily saturated with decomposition odor. So finding the tiny little pieces will be very difficult because of that heavy saturation. With time and with less contamination with all the investigators and people in the area,

they'll eventually be found, but this is going to require multiple teams of dogs coming in at multiple times to continue to search that area over and over again. What do you mean multiple teams of dogs to search the area over and over again? Why? Because of that heavy saturation of decomposition odor in the area. Once the larger pieces are removed to the more obvious pieces, you'll want to search again for increasingly smaller pieces and smaller items that are decomposing. It's just so saturated with that odor, the dog may not be able to differentiate between a large piece where it was sitting and a small piece that is still in place. I'm hoping that makes sense.

Do you have to bring in multiple teams of dogs? Like after X number of hours, do they get exhausted? I know this sounds like a rudimentary question, but how much can their noses take for how many hours? Do they become immune to the smell? Do you have to bring in new dogs for that reason? Not immune to the smell, but yes, ma'am, they do get exhausted and they will go,

what you would refer to as nose death and humans. it's just because of that heavy saturation in the area. And different dogs have different skill levels and slightly different specialties. One may be far better at decomposition tissue or fluids, and another may be really, really good at decomposing bone or older bone, antiquated bone. So just to have that investigative integrity, I would use multiple teams with multiple specialties just to make sure they recover as much evidence as possible. When I've had cases where a second team of dogs had to be brought in, this is how I explained it to the jury, because I did not want the defense suggesting something was off or wrong with the first set of dogs.

Have you, Dave Moyer, ever gone into someone's home and you're like, oh, oh, do they not smell the cat urine? And everybody's acting like it's normal? And you're the only one that just has to leave to go get a breath? Okay. So they're used to it. They're nose deaf. They've been around it for so long. They clean the floor. They sweep. They think everything's fine. But people that walk in that haven't been living there are knocked back. So I try to explain that after X number of hours, you bring in a fresh set of dogs. Does that make sense? Yes, ma'am. It absolutely does. And it comes back to that threshold saturation. And it's like this with any discipline and detection, whether it be explosive detection, narcotics detection, or in this case, human remains, there is a certain threshold.

Most of your cadaver dogs, unfortunately, most folks that run cadaver dogs for the dog's entire career may never find a real skeletonized set of human remains or actual human remains. They train on it all the time and they're very good at it and they certify in it, but they may not actually have a dead body that they locate. An entire dead body, or in this case, three, is a tremendously huge scent pool of decompositional odor. And that can easily throw a dog into what's called threshold where it's just, it's too much odor and they start to shut down. We saw that a lot in Iraq and Afghanistan with bomb detection dogs. when they would, they train on trace amounts of explosive odor, and then suddenly they're confronted with a couple hundred pounds of an improvised explosive device in a culvert.

And the dogs would just, they behave differently and they go into what's called a threshold shutdown. It's just too much. Investigators work with the city of Memphis drain maintenance division to inspect that drainage system. A camera system was used to examine the interior of the pipes based on those prior canine alerts. investigators assessed the drainage system from a nearby location and located what appeared to be an additional skull. Search teams conducted another coordinated canvas of the area, which resulted in the recovery of 14 additional bones consistent with human remains. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I've got so many questions for you, but I want to nail down a lot more facts before we really get into it. Guys, Dr. Bethany is not just a colleague.

She's a friend. She is a renowned psychoanalyst. She's coming, joining us tonight out of the LA jurisdiction. She is the author of Deal Breaker. She's working on her next book right now. You can see her on Peacock and Bravo and find her at Dr. Bethanymartial.com. You know, Dr. Bethany, you and I have covered a lot of cases together. We've gone to crime scenes.

we've. But what I just heard Chief C.J. Davis there at the Memphis PD talking about finding another skull at a certain point in all of our careers, everybody on this panel tonight, you know, many of us, for many of us, this is a mission. It's not a career. It's a mission. To just have it roll off our tongues, another skull was found. See, now the chief of the police Didn't think anything about that. But just think about it. Do you remember when I had the twins? It was just the biggest thing that it ever happened to me in my life before or since.

And when I think of a child's skull being referred to so casually, it's very upsetting. That's when I tried cases. I couldn't think about what really happened to the victims. I thought about putting the evidence in front of the jury, and then on breaks, it would kick in, what I was talking about. But I guess we do it because we've got to keep functioning if we want to achieve our goal. But did you hear what she just said? And of course she's right, but just so casually referring to a child's skull, one as young as three years old.

And I haven't even gotten to the psychological import of sticking a child's dead body in a drain pipe. But just the magnitude of this, and there may be others. They're looking. The dig has resumed as we go to air tonight. You know, Nancy, thinking about the twins, you wanted those babies so badly. And I remember when you told me you were pregnant, we were on court TV and you wrote it on a piece of paper. and shoved it towards me. I'm pregnant, exclamation mark,

because you weren't yet ready to announce it to the world and you knew that the control room could hear. And then later on, when they were four or five, and we were at HLN, I remember they're sitting in the room while you were doing shows playing Angry Birds. Do you remember that? And I could hear the sound go out over the air and I thought this mother loves her children so much.

And in contrast, calling these children like a skull, What I'm really thinking of is what did these children endure before they were secreted in a drainage pipe? If these are children who are not reported missing, likely they were in abusive environments where their parents kept them off the grid. And what I mean by that is children who are abused, especially abused through neglect, are often held back from school, medical treatment, friends, play dates in the neighborhood. because the parents are trying to hide the abuse. So when the child goes missing, nobody notices. You and I have covered so many cases like that. But what's hopeful about this, Nancy?

Most kids who are the victims of homicides, the predominance of them, are murdered by their parents. And usually the bodies are secreted within a quarter mile of the family home. So I would start with a very small area and then move outward in terms of searching people in the community. And Nancy, what this POI said about the community is not at risk, I strongly disagree because there are witnesses out there. And those people are probably quite frightened tonight about discovery and what would happen if they came forward and worried about being victimized by the perpetrators. I'm just thinking about whether they are, in fact, siblings, and that will be determined through a DNA test. But I want to go back to, I'm going to need to circle back to that, because just as we've seen cases, for instance, the Golden State Killer, Joseph DeAngelo, that's a perfect case, where years and years and years later, this former cop is identified as the Golden State Killer, Joseph DeAngelo.

That's a perfect case. Where years and years and years later, this former cop is identified as the Golden State killer. He went on a rampage, and it lasted over two decades of raping and murdering people. He moved jurisdictions, so the jurisdictions were not coordinating their searches. They didn't know to. It's not their fault. So every time he would move, he would just start all over again, undetected, and there, in each new place, they couldn't detect a pattern.

But there was definitely a pattern. Just as genetic genealogy cracked that case, where you, you take DNA from the scene and you go back and back and back to the Mayflower for Pete's sake and you do a flow chart all the way down until you finally reach the present day and you find out who if any one matching that DNA is in that area at that time. That's how it works. The same way that worked with Joseph DiAngelo, it can work with these children's DNA. and there will be DNA even though they are skeletonized.

There will be DNA. I mean, I'm curious, were there any clothes? It would be great if there were because that could be an identifier. But if not, there will be DNA in the bones. So are these three dead children siblings? Are they not connected? It's hard for me to believe they didn't come from the same area. same neighborhood, possibly the same home. But we're going to learn a lot once DNA testing is done

to determine are they siblings? And then we'll do genetic genealogy to go all the way back and find out who their parents are. But to the drainage pipe aspect, the cadaver dogs, certainly that hinders their search. If these three are in a drainage pipe, what does that mean if there are other bodies. Where are they? So Melissa Andrews, were they all in a drainage pipe or were any of them in graves? Shallow graves, for instance?

My understanding, Nancy, is that that first initial skull was found by the woman and her dog as they were walking. And you can see in some of those areas on the map that you showed, there would be maybe some places that people would be walking dogs. it appears to me that she was just walking through there and the dog, her dog, actually hit on this skull. And then when the authorities were called out there, their cadaver dogs alerted them to this drainage pipe. And then a few days later, they were able to use a camera to search in this drainage system where they found the second skull. And then in that general area found 14 more human bones.

So Dave Moyer, you're the K-9 expert. How do you go about using the dogs in a confined space like a drainage pipe and explain how did that work? What Melissa Andrews joining us from WTOL-11, how did that go down? Well, I'm glad you asked that. And you mentioned that the initial reporting party, her dog had been drawn to the decomposition order to the skull. Remember, dogs are not just predators in their natural environment. They're also scavengers. So dogs are naturally drawn to decompositional odor.

This lady's dog, for instance, had no idea that it was human decomposition. But just like your dog will drag you into the bushes if he smells a dead squirrel or a deer that might have been hit by a car or something like that, because they want to investigate. It's part of the dog's instinct to be drawn to that kind of decomposition. Now, how you're going to search an enclosed environment, like that, I would absolutely access all of the county and state records for that area. I would be looking for what structures or what businesses used to be in that area. You mentioned there was a church nearby. Is there a cemetery nearby? Could this be something with the groundwater that there's someplace these skeletons or these remains were

deposited that somehow ended up in the drain pipe, not just for instance stuffed in there to to hide the bodies. And I really like the idea of the potential shallow graves in the area. There could be shallow graves. There could be some kind of reservoir that this drain pipe is draining. And that's how the remains ended up there in the first place. So again, I'm sure the investigators have gone to great lengths to cover all those bases. But it is things to rule out and things to think about. The dogs, unfortunately, you can't, most dogs aren't really going to be too comfortable being stuffed into a pipe. And I would never be comfortable with my dog in a pipe that I couldn't fit in and be immediately there in case the dog runs into

trouble. So there's going to be a very large excavation of this entire drain pipe system just to search the area a little bit more. Dave, it's got to be big enough for a human because an adult put them in there and no, they didn't just float over there from a nearby cemetery, that that did not happen. And no bodies mysteriously went from a casket into a drain pipe and then go down a drain pipe to another drain pipe. So, you know, you're a great K-9 handler, but you need to stop that right there, that line of inquiry and suggestion. These children were killed, and they were put there.

They did not float over from another cemetery. You have just started wild conspiracy theories that are going to go on, and you may have even given some zany defense attorney an excuse at trial. So thank you very much for that, Dave Moyer. I want to get back to the bodies. Joe Scott Morgan. I cannot believe they came out and said there's no threat to the community. Really?

Well, remember when one sex worker goes missing in Long Island? No threat to the community. Now there's eight that we know of. And you and I both know that the nearby butcher is Long Island serial killer. We've established. that through many hours of arguing. So we don't know how many more bodies we can attribute to Rex Heerman, may he rot in hell, because it happened over a period of years and years and years.

So how do I know whoever killed these children aren't still killing children? Remember, I'm coming from the Atlanta jurisdiction, where we had the Atlanta child murders, and I still don't believe we found all those dead bodies. No, I don't think that they found them all in that case. However, let me give you a number here. Just so that folks understand the scope of this, folks don't realize that when we're born, we're born actually with 270 bones in our body. That reduces as we get older to when we hit maturity, we have 206. Nancy, if you look at that number, you're well up into an area. If you have mature bones, all right, you're talking about 600 plus bones that you're looking at. Right now, they have a total. They found 14.

We know that we've got two skulls. So there's a huge piece of this that's missing. And a lot of those bones are going to potentially contain information. To Dave's point, just a moment ago, I don't, you know, I think that there is a potential. you're talking about floating. No, they probably didn't float her from graveyard. However, we're in a drainage pipe, Nancy. And they say that they have inspected this area.

I want to know how thorough the inspection is because whatever happened happened upstream from this if they did wash down the pipe. And that is possible. There's another place I'm going to be looking because I've had cases like this. Every area that is adjacent to this, I'm popping covers off of manholes as well.

because those classically, there have been body depositions in manholes. Somebody that wants to hide bodies, maybe they want to get into the drainage system, this sorts of things, points of access. And you really have to exhaust every inch of this, all right? And I'm not talking about putting damn cameras in areas. I'm talking about on your hands and knees crawling through it. I've done it. A lot of other people have done it.

And yeah, it's tough work, but you have to get in there and really dig in. This is not, in my opinion, what we refer to in body recovery as a surface deposition. I don't think there's a shallow grave here. I think that this is something that's coming out of this pipe. Now, whether or not the individual decided to put a body in a pipe or they're putting them in some other location where it's making it down the pipe, that's what we're looking at. So how many points of access do you have? And who's familiar with this environment? Stretching out this entire area.

You know, Dr. Bethany mentioned this just a few moments ago. You're starting concentricly and you're working your way out when you begin to think about suspects, but also points of access along here. And you've got to do the dirty work here because we're talking about three kids, Nancy. Three kids, three kids. This is so bizarre and so abnormal in our wacky world that we talk about crime in. This even in that context, this makes this really bizarre. So we'll see what happens. What's the big key here, though, is getting them identified.

Was there anything else with the seat, clothing, shoes, stuff like that, either? We have not discovered any other elements, only bone fragments at this time. What you're seeing today is a continuation of those efforts. Our goal today is to conduct a thorough and methodical search of the area for an additional, for additional evidence. that will assist in identifying the deceased. This coordinated search is focused on a defined area along Ridge Metal Parkway between Ridgeway Road and Winchester Road, where investigators are conducting a systematic grid search.

The size of this response reflects the scope of the search area and our commitment to being thorough and not the presence of any immediate danger. This remains an active and ongoing investigation. We are following the end up. evidence whatever it leads and will continue to work closely with our partners throughout this entire process. The dig is going on, including with fresh cadaver dogs. The search is expanding. Melissa Andrews, what can you tell us about the ongoing search? Well, Nancy, it's not just digging and it's not just cadaver dogs. You know, authorities are going to have to do forensic testing on these remains.

And, you know, we talked about the scouten boys earlier. That's just one example. of some missing children in the United States. I told you that there are 584 missing boys and girls between the ages of three and nine. When I talked to the Michigan State Police, they said, yes, we don't believe that these are our boys based on the timeline, but we are going to be sending dental records.

We are going to be sending DNA. So it's likely that all of these 500 for missing children, authorities in those areas where those children are missing will have to also send that information send that information to Memphis because as we know, Memphis police have said they do not believe these children are from that area and they're from somewhere. I find that really interesting, Dr. Bethany Marshall, that they immediately assume these children are not from that area. Maybe they don't want them to be from that area. Just because there's not a missing person's report,

which in many jurisdictions is a felony, not to report your child missing. A lot of that came about after Harmony Montgomery went missing and years passed without schools or family reporting her missing? Because the dad did it, very simply put, after years of torture. No one has reported them missing, but that doesn't mean they're not from that area. That said, why is it that we're so quick to say, oh, there's no threat to the community? Think Long Island serial killer. There was a threat to the community. Or they say, oh, they're not from this area. How do we know that?

We don't know that. Nancy, it sounds a little bit like not in my backyard. This wouldn't happen in this jurisdiction. We could never have children go missing who were unreported or we did not investigate. But Nancy, the likelihood is that they are from that area. You know, stereotypical kidnappings where a child is abducted, taken across state lines, and then murdered represents less than 1% of all kidnapping. So statistically, the chances are very high that these children are from that immediate area.

And Nancy, let's think about the fact if they are siblings, what we commonly see as an abuse pattern in households is that two or three children will be treated with love and care and they might be nurtured and fed well. well, another child is sort of chained in the basement and starved. And I know that sounds crazy, but you and I have seen this again and again. So if these three children are siblings, likely they were raised in a household where other siblings saw what was going on. So I'm hoping that siblings will come forward or they were raised in a household like the turpents. Remember that? They had 13 children that they were starving and tort.

And fortunately, this came to the attention of law enforcement before any of those children died. But what if we have a Turpin household situation where there are multiple children who are being abused, deprived, neglected, starved? And these three kids were just the first to go. And if we see other skeletal remains in that area, and if they are genetically linked to these three skeletons, then you really have to look to a household. in the area where children were being imprisoned, kept against their will, kept out of school, and never coming to the attention of law enforcement, which is, of course, why the sheriff is saying, oh, they're not from our area, because that means something was seriously overlooked. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Straight back out to Dave Moyer, Georgia Canine Tracker, Master Trainer, K9 Tracker. former deputy sheriff, canine handler with San Bernardino Shears Department. Dave, what do we do with the dogs now? And I'm not convinced this is the only burial ground. I would absolutely go back to my previous statement with. I would get some more dog teams out there and I would broaden the search. I would certainly eliminate any possibilities of things being in the area or any additional graves being in the area. You've just got a lot of questions that are unanswered here.

I mean, for instance, if something as simple as the city taking a look and seeing when the last time that drainage pipe might have been serviced, might put a timestamp on when these remains were actually deposited. Hey, Moyer, you know when I told you to leave the investigation to us? Okay, I take erase that because that's a brilliant idea. Will you say that one more time about the drainage pipe? Yes, ma'am. I mean, I would get with the city and state and or county and figure out when the last time. that drainage pipe was actually serviced or even installed, and that puts a timestamp on when these remains might have been deposited in that drain pipe. Yeah, even a rough estimate would help.

And, you know, another, another extrinsic piece of evidence would be, for instance, when you're trying to prove an arson case, Dave, as you well know, you don't look just at the scene of the fire. you look at extrinsic evidence, such as I had a defendant who actually called the weather station to ask what the weather was going to be on a certain date, which was the date his house, happened to catch on fire. He also called his insurance company to find out if they would replace, if they would pay for rental furniture or replacement furniture if there was a fire. And then lo and behold, there was a fire. And his wife, died in the fire with a blow to the head. What a co-intending, right? So all of that is extrinsic

evidence to prove an arson happened. So here timing, the last time the drainage pipe was serviced would be extrinsic evidence. And here's the problem. The dogs or the medical examiner can't date DNA. You can't get a date or a time of death. on DNA. Correct. Correct. There's, again, there's a lot of questions on answer here that the dog simply can't answer for you. There's simply a detection apparatus that are going to lead you to the evidence, and it's up to other forms of investigation to determine the rest of the evidence that we're talking about here. You know, Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned psychoanalyst, how many times have we sat on the sit and go and say the same thing? What is wrong with people?

For instance, if you know the neighbor's children just disappear and the neighbors are still there, why don't you do something? If you have relatives, like I just mentioned Harmony Montgomery. I just mentioned her. What, did nobody notice she was missing for years? Nobody said anything. So here is the question for the ages. What is wrong with people? Why don't they act? We know, Nancy, children notoriously do not have a voice. As much as we love our babies and our little children in society, they are not advocated for in court systems. They do not have a voice for themselves. So what's wrong with people is that children are devalued, Nancy. And, you know, people who could be witnesses or reporters, they often doubt themselves. They'll say, well, I think I heard through the walls of my apartment building, some guy yelling at it as, you know, people who could be witnesses or reporters, they often doubt themselves. They'll say, well, I think I heard through the walls of my apartment building, some guy yelling at it is. kid and slapping and beating and I don't see the kid anymore, but what if I'm wrong and I get the dad in trouble? So you can see in cases like that, the parent is prioritized over the child. Now, another factor, Nancy, you know, I talked about the turpins and if there were multiple children being neglected in a household. What if we have like more of an Epstein situation where you have a wealthy influential person who is luring children, maybe like allegedly a Michael Jackson, and parents are handing their children over for what they believe is some greater good

for the child. And when the child goes missing, they don't report because the older influential person is targeting parents who are economically deprived, who don't have an eye on the ball, don't really care. So, you know, I think in terms of searching for the purpose, a traitor, they should look at all level of society. And to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, what now, I'm not

convinced these are siblings. That's convenient. Well, I'm not going to take the easier route. What if they aren't siblings? What if they were disposed of on, you know, years apart, weeks apart, months apart? I am not ruling anything out.

That would be easy if they all match DNA. Wouldn't it? That would make it a lot easier to find them. Three missing children, but I'm not convinced that's true. No, not necessarily. It's not. And certainly not. Particularly, we're talking about a predator that is looking for kids in this age range. Okay. But let's go back to this. This is the important thing. There's two types of age of skeletal remains that people think about. How long have the skeletal remains been out there? That's a separate, that's a separate bit of data. And then we have to think about how old were the victims when they died. So two

numbers. That's going to be sussed out by the people at the Forensic Center that services the western part of Tennessee. And these are top, top people here, Nancy. You know, in one of the images that you guys showed, you know who I saw was out at the scene? People from the body farm, Nancy. They're wearing their t-shirts. They're wearing their hats. That is reassuring. Hey, just to let everybody know, Joe Scott, tell everybody what the body farm is. That is reassuring. Yeah, so the body farm is established by Dr. Bill Bass, Professor Emeritus at UT. He established a body farm many, many years ago in order to determine estimation of time since death on skeletal remains.

It's real easy, you know, in my world, in the medical legal world, when I go out and I have fresh remains, you know, and I see them, see them, lying about. There you go. There they are. And, you know, where I still have soft tissue. You get into skeletal remains, it's very, very difficult. So they literally do testing on human remains at UT up in Knoxville to spend around for a long, long time. These people are tops in their fields. So they're physically out there right now assisting with this, including all the other people that are there. But here's the key, Nancy, and we have to keep coming back to this. I teach my students at Jack State and the cops that I teach. The most important element to death investigation is finding out who the victim is.

If you can do that, you can build out their social circle. Right now, we're going to lean heavy into DNA. I'm encouraged that there are two skulls because with the skulls, there might be teeth. We can get a molar and also inside of the skull, we can get from the petros bone, and we can extract DNA from there. You know, interesting to Melissa Andrews, this is a property near an auto parts store. It's been surrounded by crime scene tape. I would start with finding out who works at that auto parts store who's left the area.

And I would go back a good 20 years. I don't know if it was always an auto parts store. But since the bodies are so close to that, that is where I would start. I agree with you, Nancy. And as you pointed out at the top of your show and as you've shown there on the map, This is not really a rural area. So I'll be really interested. I'm sure you will too as to where this goes.

Because as you said, there needs to be a lot more digging in this area. If you know or think you know anything about the bodies of three little children now found, please dial Memphis Homicide, 901, 636, 3,300. You know, in a lot of cases we see, a 250,000. dollar reward, a million dollar reward. There's no reward to help solve this case. No one, no one is speaking out for these children. Please don't sit back and do nothing. If you know or think you know anything about these children, please dial 901 636 3,300. We remember American hero deputy sheriff Logan Fox

with Tuga County Sheriff's North Carolina. Just 25 shot in the line of duty after four years leaving behind a broken hearted fiance and Elise. American hero deputy sheriff Logan Fox.

Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye friend. This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Thank you.