Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mica Miller's Pastor Husband Facing New Allegations of Sexual Assault

Episode Date: March 9, 2025

John-Paul and Mica Miller marry in 2017, and at just 23, Mica becomes stepmom to John-Paul Miller's 5 children.  At first, outside the home everybody seems happy, but inside the home, not so much. Mica Miller has decided she has had enough of Pastor John-Paul Miller and files for divorce.   Four months after filing for divorce, Mica Miller pulls back the divorce papers, only to file again weeks later. After filing for divorce the second time, Mica Miller says she feels like she is being stalked. Her tires are slashed twice. Police discover a tire deflator has been used on the tires. Taking her car in for service, a mechanic finds a tracking device in Mica Miller's car. Mica Miller tells police she is afraid for her life. She knows who the suspect is, but the police tell her there isn't much they can do. A report is filed, but no charges. Weeks later, Pastor John-Paul Miller announces during church service that he got a call telling him his wife is dead. Mica commits suicide, according to police.  Separate memorial events spring up for Mica Miller, one for her husband at Solid Rock and one for her family and friends held beachside. Days after the service, Pastor John-Paul Miller is relieved of his duties at the church. Then police arrested Pastor John-Paul Miller on assault charges unrelated to his wife’s suicide. An FBI raid of Pastor John-Paul Miller's  home followed. The FBI declined to specify what they were searching for. Now,  Miller facing new lawsuits alleging he sexually assaulting a teen girl  more than 20 years ago.   Joining Nancy Grace today:   Regina Ward –  Attorney for Sierra Francis; Regina Ward Law Firm Barry Hutchison Sr. – Former Law Enforcement, Owner & Chief Investigator for Barry & Associates Investigative Services LLC Dr. Marlena Ryba  – Forensic Psychologist and Research Consultant at Dr. Long and Associates; LINKEDIN: marlenamryba; Melissa Pfeiffer  - Filmed John Paul Miller's Alleged Assault on Protester Dr. Jan Gorniak – Medical Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner (Las Vegas, NV), Board Certified Forensic Pathologist Lauren Conlin – Investigative Journalist, Host of The Outlier Podcast, and also Host of “Corruption: What Happened to Grant Solomon; X- @Conlin_Lauren/ Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin/YouTube- @LaurenConlin4  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Does it never end with this guy? I'm talking about Micah Miller allegedly committed suicide after alleged mental, verbal, and emotional abuse on her from Pastor husband John Paul Miller. In the last days, we learn he is accused of raping a 15-year-old girl. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. The pastor-husband of Micah Miller allegedly raped a 15-year-old girl and continued a pattern of predatory conduct for years, according to a new civil lawsuit. Miller, 44, accused in a bombshell lawsuit in the attack, the girl known only as Jane Doe. The attack allegedly occurred in 1998 while at his father's church. It's a 43-page complaint, and it's filed in Horry County Circuit Court.

The unidentified woman accusing Miller of raping her and inappropriately touching her. This dredging up the gunshot death of his beautiful young wife, Micah. Questions still swirling about that. God hates divorce, but why? According to everybody I've asked and the scriptures that I've found, it's because it hurts people. But does abuse hurt people? How do you think God feels about that? Robinson County 911, what's the address of your emergency? I have my location on, I think, on my phone. I just want my family to know where to find me. You f***ing wrecked me! Don't f***ing touch me, you psychopath!

Don't you touch me! You are in my personal... You f***ing wrecked me! Don't you f***ing touch me, you psychopath! Don't you touch meing touch me, you psychopath! Don't you touch me! You touch me! Don't touch me, f***ing f***! You're cracking, JP. FBI's coming.

We told you. FBI's coming. Stand up for the FBI. We told you. What is a pastor doing getting into a brawl in the parking lot? According to reports, you just saw footage from our friend and guest Melissa Pfeiffer joining us. And you saw footage from at the Robbie Harvey at the Robbie Harvey joining me in all-star panel to make sense of what we are learning right now. This pastor comes to the forefront of our national conscious after his wife commits suicide. Now, many people do not believe that she did commit suicide. And there he is in all of his splendor and glory, John Paul Miller.

I still have the burning question. What is a pastor doing in a brawl in the parking lot? With me in the parking lot. With me and all of our panel, first I want to go to a special guest joining us, Melissa Pfeiffer, who filmed Miller's alleged assault. Melissa, thank you for being with us. What happened? We were there and we were on the side of the sidewalk that aligns the church and we were just protesting.

At the time, there was a neighbor that was out there that was talking to us and we were distracted and our backs were turned towards the college. And one of the young girls that was with us turned around and said, that's JP. And when we turned around, we saw him over there and it looked to be like he was recording us. And at that point, when I turned my camera to him, he took off in the other direction. And so one of the fellow protesters, you know, she ran across the street because that's where

our cars are parked. We didn't know what he was doing. We had no idea why he was creeping up behind us or anything. So when we went over there, as you can see in the video like he was running away he stopped turn around or charged at her and you can hear her in the video saying you're in my personal space and that's when he he said what are you gonna do and he hit the brim of her hat twice with his phone while he was saying what are you gonna do and that's when you see her, you know, go in on him. Wait, let me understand something. I'm going to have to get you to tell your story again because I'm, oh, wait, there he is getting it. Oh, wait. Is that him? Did I see him? Jackie, was that him touching her hat? I want to hear the whole thing again, Melissa, because you were talking so quickly. I'm afraid I missed something, But very quickly, I want to go to high profile.

No, no, no, no. You were perfect. I just don't want to miss anything. Regina Ward is joining us, high profile lawyer, and she is representing Micah Miller's family law firm of Regina B. Ward. Regina, I remember 1L, first year of law school. We were talking about torts. And one of the cases we studied, it's a seminal case in U.S. law. This had to do with a racist.

There was a black male, I believe with his wife, at some luncheon, like, you know, Kiwanis or Rotary or something like that. And there was a buffet as there is because, you know, they meet at lunchtime and the victim had picked up a plate to go through the buffet. And another guy that did not want the victim there went up and grabbed the plate out of his hand. And that was deemed a battery. Because if you touch something that is touching another person like the plate or like this woman's hat, that is considered a battery. Regina. Yes, it is. And him charging her is an assault. A lot of people think that an assault and battery kind of go together.

Well, you can have an assault without a battery. I always say that, you know, the definition of assault is like when he charged, putting a fear into somebody and then raising your hand is an assault. That unwanted touch, even if it doesn't cause a bruise or scratch or anything, is an unwanted touch and that's illegal. It's what we call a simple battery. Now, if it escalates or if a weapon is used, you point a gun at someone, you don't shoot them, but you point the gun at them, that is an aggravated assault. As Regina just stated correctly, putting someone in fear of immediate bodily harm is an assault. If it's with a weapon, even your fists, it's an aggravated assault. You can get 20 years to life on that. In this case,

it would be a simple assault, putting the woman in fear, or a simple battery, you know, grabbing her hat. Okay, back to Melissa Pfeiffer, who filmed the incident. And if I could get the control room to please run it again as Melissa's talking. Melissa, there's been a lot of confusion about what happened. You're an eyewitness. Tell me from the beginning. So we were there and we were on the side of the sidewalk that that aligns with the church we were protesting and um one of the neighbors had walked up to us and was talking to us so our backs were turned towards the college we couldn't see

behind us obviously um and then one of the girls that was with us had turned around and said, that's JP. And so when we all turned around, we saw him and he was like on the sidewalk part across the street at the school. And it looked to be like, he was possibly recording us. I don't know exactly what he was trying to do, nor do I know how long he was back there for. When we turned around and pointed our cameras at him he he went to run off um towards where his truck was and that's when the other protester who he assaulted was across uh she went

to run across the street um to see what was going on because we didn't know why he was over there and that's where we parked and you'll see in the video she she's running at him but she stops at the cars she stops with well within a healthy distance away from him um and then he stops in the track turns around and charges at her and you see her put her hands behind her back and she stands there and you hear her on the video say you're in my personal space and he was in her face saying what are you gonna do what are you gonna do and then he hit the brim of her hat with his phone two times and then he went to walk off and she that's when she ran behind him telling him he didn't get to touch her. Wow. Okay. Jackie here in the studio has a legal question, Regina Ward, and it's a good one. She wants to know if an assault or battery charge on Miller is appropriate if the victim was following him? And my answer would be yes.

I mean, let's just take a street in Manhattan, for instance. People are this close together walking. I mean, it's really packed. It's not a crime or any sort of a tort to be walking closely behind someone. Also, she stopped walking behind him and he got a distance away and then he turned around and charged at her. We just saw that on the video.

Yes. In fact, because he was so far away, he had an opportunity to leave the scene altogether and avoid any confrontation. He took it upon himself. Of course, he responded, probably from an emotional standpoint, turned around and came back towards the woman. So when he was on the other side of the parking lot,

he had what we call an opportunity to leave, you know, don't go back into a dangerous situation. You walk away. I'm not saying that was a dangerous situation in this case. But when you have, you know, the opportunity to leave and avoid that confrontation, he certainly had the ability to do that, seemed and appeared to already be doing that. But at some point, he got emotional and turned around and came back and wanted to confront or talk about whatever it was he thought that upset him that he heard someone say. Well, of course, John Paul Miller's attorney, Russell Long, is calling his arrest, quote, outrageous. Listen, Miller's attorney, Russell Long, is calling Miller's arrest outrageous

and alleges that the women recording Miller make taunting comments in attempts to bait and coerce Miller. Long claims the city of Myrtle Beach has failed Miller and Solid Rock Church by allowing protesters to stalk and harass Miller and his churchgoers, effectively killing the church. Long says Miller's arrest will only provide protesters with more bait and purpose and worries that they will not stop. I don't think the protesters are what is killing the church. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last days, Micah Miller's pastor husband, John Paul Miller,

accused of raping a 15-year-old little girl in a civil suit. The woman we know only as Jane Doe claims this occurred in 1998. And all that we are learning is in a 43-page complaint filed in Horry County Circuit Court. Now, we learn, according to her, the last incident occurred as recently as 2023, according to the alleged victim, with John Paul Miller allegedly grabbing her genitals in public that then triggered repressed memories. Those repressed memories are alleged to be an assault by Miller back in 1998 when she was 15 and he was 19. Now, as you know, the so-called Pastor Miller under heavy scrutiny ever since his wife Micah was found dead in the Lumbee River State Park last April from, according to authorities, a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Lauren Conlon joining us, investigative reporter and co-host of Primetime Crime on YouTube. You can find her at Pop Crime TV.

Lauren, thank you for being with us. I don't know if you're familiar with this, but sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me. So let me understand this. His lawyer is claiming that women protesting taunted him with comments and that they're the bad guys. Yes. Apparently the women that are protesting for Micah are the bad guys in this situation. He said they baited him. John Paul Miller is supposed to be a figure in the community. He is a pastor. He is not supposed to be baited. And look, I understand that he is a human being, but I did find it so interesting, Nancy, when Russ Long said that

the community of Myrtle Beach was failing John Paul Miller and failing his church members. Well, Nancy, what church are we talking about here? Are we talking about Solid Rock? Because as of last week, there is no longer a Solid Rock website. There's no social media. So who has who have these protesters failed exactly? Back to Melissa Pfeiffer joining us to video this, the alleged assault on a protester. Melissa, again, thank you for being with us. You hear that his lawyer is claiming that you and the other protesters are the problem, that you are harassing J.P. Miller and that you are harassing the church members and that you have, quote, killed the church.

What's your response? I think the FBI raiding JP's house is what took down his church. What do you mean by that? We're not harassing. I mean, they. I just it's not a good look to have your pastor be raided by the FBI. What have you done? I mean, it's a concerning statement that he lawyer claiming that you are and the others,

other protesters are harassing the church members. Yeah, they've been saying that since the beginning that we are harassing the church members. And I guess that they think that because we chant, that means we're harassing the church members. I'm not harassing anybody. I'm exercising my First Amendment rights and I am protesting. Um, there's never been.

Violence from our side. Um, there's never been any, any charges on any of the protesters. There's never been any violence from our side. But what there has been is violence from his church members and violence from him. I've got a question, Melissa Pfeiffer. Why are you protesting you and the others? What do you hope to achieve? For me, we all have our reasons for being out there. One form or another of Micah's story

has touched us each. We've all been through things and I protest because something is not right and I want the truth to come out and I need for justice for Micah to be served.

And I need him to be held accountable for whatever it is he is guilty of. Whatever he has done that can be proven, he needs to be held accountable for that. And Micah deserves justice. I just want to let you know that I'm alive and well. And I'm going through a lot and it's hard. Micah Miller files for divorce after discovering multiple affairs by her pastor husband. Micah says in the divorce filing that she was a faithful and dutiful wife and that she was, quote, devoted to their church and marriage. It's been kind of crazy the couple past weeks, months, years. At Miller's arraignment, the victim's attorney asks the judge for a no-contact order, but the request is denied.

Miller's attorney, Russell Long, insists Miller did not assault the protester and renews his call for help to stop the harassment and stalking of Miller and his parishioners. John Paul Miller secures a $776 bond for the misdemeanor assault charge and is released after spending the night in jail. Miller is due back in court on the charges next month. I find it very interesting that the alleged victim in this case wanted a no contact order and didn't get one. Her tires were flatted. A tracking device was placed on her vehicle. I know this because J.P. Miller apologized reportedly for doing that. Her semi-nude shot was taken without her knowledge and posted on some fetish website by J.P. Miller. I don't know if he took the photo, if she knew he took

the photo, but she certainly did not know he was posting it on a fetish website. And he also apologized for that. None of these were ever prosecuted. So now you have one of the protesters, the alleged victim asking for a no contact order to be put on the Reverend J.P. Miller, but the judge refuses. He's also been released on $776 bond. I mean, Lauren Conlon, they might as well have just given him no bond for Pete's sake. Just let him walk out ROR, released on own recognizance. Yes. I meant to point out earlier, Nancy, that this is not his first mugshot. He was arrested back in 1998 for assault and battery. It was later dismissed and he got community service. And then he was arrested again for driving with a suspended license. And I believe he spent 60 days in jail.

You know, with the wife dead and a previous wife claiming that she was abused in various manners. I don't know why the judge didn't give this alleged victim a no contact order. But that said, we now know more about the FBI raid on Miller's home. Pastor John Paul Miller isn't home when the FBI evidence response team shows up to raid his South Carolina home. The FBI won't say what they're looking for and FBI spokesman Kevin Wheeler tells USA Today the FBI is conducting court-authorized

law enforcement activity and due to the ongoing nature of the investigation will be providing no further comments on the matter. The lawyer for Pastor John Paul Miller, Russell Long, claims the FBI is on a fishing expedition. There was no affidavit attached to the search warrant. Therefore, I have no idea what it's in relation to. All day long, members of the FBI's evidence response team go in and out of the home carrying paper bags and other items from the home.

Is the church alive and well? Seemingly not. Joining me, Dr. Marlena Ryba, a forensic psychologist who actually lives down the street from the church. What's happening at that church now, doctor? At this time, it looks like the church is pretty much vacant. I believe it was the last weekend or maybe two weekends ago, it appeared that they were moving a lot of the belongings out of the church. So it looks like they are sort of packing up and maybe going to a different locations. There's also rumors that they may be changing to a virtual sort of platform. So beyond that, I can't really speculate.

But I can tell you that every Sunday, there are barricades around the church. Part of that is because of the Justice for Micah protesters and the police is out there. So, you know, it's also kind of interesting to me that the allegations from J.P. Miller would be that the city of Myrtle Beach isn't doing enough to kind of stop the harassment. It appears to me that, you know, they're actually out there every weekend making sure that the tensions don't escalate. And as he's proven to us, you know, just with this recent arrest, we now know that he's capable of sort of escalating things potentially to a physical level when challenged or questioned. You know, I find all of this extremely probative, Dr. Ryba, because many

people do not believe that Micah committed suicide. Others believe that she was driven to suicide by her husband, the Reverend J.P. Miller. And there is precedent in our country for prosecuting someone who drives another to suicide. In this brand new civil lawsuit, claims are made that the trauma of an earlier alleged sex assault was, quote, deeply buried, and that Jane Doe had no conscious recollection of the assault. All this coming out after Micah Miller found dead by gunshot wound after serving husband John Paul Miller with divorce papers. Police have ruled her death a suicide, but many do not accept that ruling. You know, we were talking briefly about the FBI raid, and that would have been on Miller's home. It's never a good thing, as I like to say, when you look out your kitchen window and you see the FBI coming through your trash, yeah, you're in trouble. They did a full on raid on his home. Regina Ward, the attorney

for Micah's family, saw part of that raid. What were they taking out, Regina? Oh yeah, I was there and they took out lots of different things in terms of, but mostly it was packaged, sealed, covered in bags, small bags, big bags. There were boxes that came out as well. I saw them take out one thing that was not covered was an all-in-one computer and put that in the evidence truck. There were multiple things that they brought out. At some point, they closed the garage door, too. So they must have been filtering through that and taking out other evidence from there. happened to be the seventh year anniversary, their wedding anniversary. So I thought to myself, my, what a wonderful gift he gave her walking out of there with his mugshot all over the world. I've had a lot of women that have reached out to me about situations of abuse. And I just want to tell you

what a lot of people have told me lately and reminded me because I think I forgot. I knew, but I pushed it in the back of my head just because of my situation. But you are the bride of Christ. God hates divorce. But why? According to everybody I've asked and the scriptures that I've found, it's because it hurts people.

But does abuse hurt people? How do you think God feels about that? Micah Miller is born in Wichita, Kansas, and grows up as an adventurous, energetic, and giving person. Always a hard worker, she gets to know her future husband when she is just 15 years old and he is her church youth leader. Privately, she tells her sister she is afraid of John Paul Miller, going so far as to tell her sister, Sierra Francis, if I end up with a bullet in my head, it was JP. Attorney Regina Ward is also revealing that she received a subpoena for a grand jury investigating John Paul Miller months before the raid. Ward claims the documents she provided helped the FBI obtain the search warrant for John Paul Miller's home. Ward is confident an

indictment is coming and reports that a new potential witness has stepped forward as a result of the search. Agents overseeing the investigation are asking for any potential witnesses and victims to come forward. Anyone with information is asked to call the FBI Myrtle Beach at 843-626-7476 or use the FBI's online tip form. All right, here we go. A grand jury meeting calling witnesses regarding an investigation of the Reverend J.P. Miller. This after the suicide of his wife, Micah. And joining me, Regina Ward, Micah Miller's family lawyer. What's it all about? What are they investigating, Regina? Well, the grand jury subpoena that I received asking for me to appear, I wanted to make this clear. They were asking, it's a subpoena, do just take them, which says that they want my documents and the things that I have in my possession. On page two, it lists multiple

things that they wanted me to produce relevant to certain situations. And what I would say, certain types of crimes in my observation of it. However, those are things that I will not and cannot reveal. I don't want to, you know, interfere or jeopardize an investigation whatsoever. But they, you know, came and took all of my entire file, everything that Micah gave me and everything else that I had put together, even myself. I also wanted to point out, you've asked, you know, we've talked about his adultery. It is a crime in South Carolina to commit adultery. It's actually a statute that carries up to one year in jail, which is pretty interesting. But also the other thing is we talked about the dissemination of the photograph.

In South Carolina, we're the only state that doesn't have a law against that. Now, we do have a law against disseminating obscene photos and things like that. And it does have a penalty, but it's really geared toward the person receiving it did not want to receive it. The law that we have doesn't necessarily address where the photograph came from. It only addresses really like the recipient, someone who sees it if they're offended by it. So I don't want to pry into what was the target of a subpoena ducus tecum, which is, you know, typically we hear about subpoenas for you to show up to court. A ducus tecum is to bring documents or objects. But let me ask you this. In which direction do you believe the grand jury is going? Are they looking for some type of fraud?

Are they looking for transporting minors across state lines for the purposes of sex? Are they looking for underage sex activity? Where do you think they're headed? And is it a federal grand jury or a local grand jury? It was a federal grand jury, and it was a subpoena to appear with an alternate to bring documents. So I want to make that clear. And I was able to, they provide you with a waiver so you don't have to appear before the grand jury. I just submit all of my documents and the investigator, or excuse me, the agent that's assigned to it and the prosecutor. They're the ones that present it to the grand jury in order to

get the search warrant. Okay, guys, in the midst of all of this, we are learning that J.P. Miller reportedly already has a girlfriend. Listen. Myrtle Beach, South Carolina is buzzing with rumors that Pastor John Paul Miller is dating again and has possibly even remarried. Miller was previously seen out to dinner with a member of his congregation just four days after Micah Miller's suicide. Less than 24 hours after his home is raided by the FBI, Miller is seen with the same woman having lunch at McAllister's Deli. This time, the pair kept their distance and appeared tense when entering and leaving the restaurant. Claiming he's still wearing the ring he wed Micah with. Miller laughed off reporters' questions about his love life, saying he's, quote, still dealing with Micah.

Still dealing with Micah? His wife is dead and he refers to that as still dealing with Micah. You know, joining me is a well-known, a veteran law enforcement detective, owner and chief investigator for Barry and Associates Investigation Services. Barry Hutchinson is joining us. You can find him online at P.I. Barry, Barry, this thing stinks to high heaven. I mean, Barry, this guy, Pastor Miller, immediately has a girlfriend after Micah's apparent suicide. And when asked about it, he says, I'm still dealing with Micah. That's not a good look. No, it's not a crime, but it sure doesn't look good when you're in the middle of a grand jury probe. You know, you made the comment of jumping out of a frying pan into the fire. I want to add something to that. You're not only are you doing that, but you're doing it in gas soaked underwear. You know, this this guy, he's you know, he's as dirty as they can get.

They I agree with you. That's a percent. The guy said he's dirty. I mean, there's something wrong with this entire situation. I can't say what I actually want to say about him, but it's not a good situation. I'll just leave it at that. Straight back out to Lauren Conlon joining us. Lauren, the woman at issue, okay, the one that he's having lunch with, he's been spotted around

town with her very soon after Micah's suicide. Now, question, where exactly were they seen most recently? It was at a restaurant a few days after Micah's death that they were first seen by the public. And then the day that JP's house got raided by the FBI, they were seen having lunch. Let me be clear. We cannot prove in any way that these two are having an affair. For all I know, they're bonding over their respective spouses committing suicide. We don't know that. But what I do know is that Solid Rock Church appears to be over. Listen. It appears Pastor John Paul Miller and other staff members are emptying Solid Rock Church, likely due to the scrutiny the organization is under while Miller faces accusations that he drove his wife, Micah, to suicide.

Miller's Faith First School is also cleared, with staff posting online that members of the congregation are welcome to anything they want. Solid Rock's sign has also been taken down. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace In new bombshell papers, the alleged victim in the civil lawsuit says she had been attending Sunday school at Miller's father's church when the now pastor, John Paul Miller, forced her into his father's office, shutting the door behind them and immediately becoming aggressive and overpowering her. She says she struggled and pled with him to stop, but he led her from the office to outside the church that she was forced into his truck and raped. That was years ago, but this 2023 incident, according to her,

sparked the lawsuit, and it involved the pair meeting in Myrtle Beach while she was there with a friend. She says Pastor John Paul Miller leaned in to hug her and shoved his hand down her pants without her consent. Her lawsuit also names All Nations Church, which was led by his father, Reginald Wayne Miller, and against his own church, Cathedral Baptist of the Grand Strand, and Solid Rock Ministries, all named as defendants. All this coming to light after the death of his young wife, Micah Miller. I remember the facts very well. Sarah McDougal says Micah Miller did not kill herself, saying we don't really know who pulled the trigger and conceding that Micah Miller may very well have.

McDougal says even if Micah Miller did technically pull the trigger, Micah Miller may very well have. McDougal says even if Micah Miller did technically pull the trigger, Micah Miller did not kill herself. McDougal says sworn testimony of family and friends confirms her non-suicidal state of mind prior to her death, and the fact that she had recently shipped belongings to Africa to start fresh doing mission service overseas all point to Micah Miller not being suicidal at the time she killed herself. I'm the only one not to blame. I'm the only one who tried to help her keep her alive. With me, she never committed suicide. With me, she's happy, healthy, whole.

That last bit of Miller speaking, claiming he's the only one that kept her alive, that's from our friends at WPDE ABC 15. To Dr. Jan Gorniak joining us, a renowned medical examiner at the Clark County Office of Coroner. That's where she practiced most of her time. That's Vegas. Never a lack of business in the morgue there. Dr. Gorniak, as of now, her death has been ruled a suicide. To prove that, you're going to have to look at a body that had been submerged in water. So how would you find, for instance, stippling gunshot residue burning around the wound or gunshot residue on the hand, how would you determine that's a suicide if all of the gunshot residue is gone, having been submerged in water, Dr. Gorniak? Well, in order to determine manner

of death, and that's what we're talking about when we say suicide, when something's ruled as suicide, we're talking about manner of death. The manner of death comes from the circumstances. So it's not just the body, it's the circumstances that we have to know. So you said that she was in water. Is the gun still there? We also have to look into someone's medical history. Are there any stressors? So, for instance, besides the medical history, when you say medical history, you think about diabetes or high blood pressure, but we also have to talk about mental health history.

And then also, we always have to ask, has there been any suicide ideations, any talk about suicide? Have there been any attempts at suicide, prior attempts? So all of that comes into play. So we can look at the body. Some of this stuff might be washed away, like you said, the soot, but the skin is still going to be burned if it's a close contact wound. Also, we can look at the bone. There might be soot on the bone underneath, and I would say it's a close contact wound also. But in order to call something a suicide, it's more dependent on the circumstances than it is the wound itself.

But, I mean, obviously, we have to make sure the wound matches. Now, we have a gunshot wound that is a distant gunshot wound at the back of the head, most likely not a suicide. So part of our job is to prove or disprove the circumstances. So a gunshot wound, close contact, right to left, left to right, whatever the direction is, that's more consistent with a suicide. But that's in conjunction with the circumstances. Now, interesting that in this case, Dr. Gorniak, her own family says that she feared for her life, that she would never make it through the divorce alive. Those are Micah's words, not mine. We have precedent in the U.S. regarding those individuals that drive someone, obviously, probatively drive someone to suicide like Michelle Carter.

Conrad Roy and Michelle Carter connect over both being diagnosed with depression, and when Roy tells Carter he wants to kill himself, she encourages him to do it. Deciding to use a generator in his truck and die by carbon monoxide, Michelle Carter helps him decide on where to park his truck so he could die. As carbon monoxide begins to fill his truck cabin, Conrad Roy III gets out. Texting Michelle Carter, he'll do it another day. Carter texts to Roy are challenging, telling him he overthinks things. Carter texts Roy, you just said you were going to do it tonight, and now you're saying eventually?

Carter tells Roy to get back in the truck. Authorities discover the body of Conrad Roy III in his pickup truck parked outside a Kmart in Fairhaven, Massachusetts the next day. He was 18. She was prosecuted for driving her very young and inexperienced boyfriend to suicide. If you had seen the text that she sent him, just do it. What are you waiting for? Are you going to do it? Well, he did it and now he's dead and she went to jail. Many argue that Pastor Miller drove his wife to suicide. Listen. Micah Miller's best friend remembers being dragged into one of many marital fights instigated by loving husband, Pastor John Paul Miller. Charlotte Korn finds herself in a group text with the couple after Miller presses Micah on an odd question.

OK, baiting, baiting her. But this is what happened. Talk about a head game. Listen. Miller continues on this tirade, spiraling into a huge fight. Micah leaves to cool off. And that's when Miller threatens to follow Micah to her sister's home while armed and donate all of Micah's belongings if she doesn't return home immediately. Okay, let me understand something, Regina Ward. This is just one of the many mind games Pastor Miller reportedly, I'm sure he would deny all of this if he were to join us, which he declined. Regina Ward baiting her and then he turned it around on her? Yes, that's a classic tactic of a coercive control person. They're always baiting, pushing, pushing, trying to put ideas in your head to make you feel crazy, to get you to come in

and to their little snare so then they can whip it around on you. It's a coercive control tactic used quite frequently. And based on the evidence that I have that Micah left with me and the history of Mr. Miller, this was nothing unusual. It wasn't the first time and probably wasn't the last time. And I wouldn't be surprised if he used the same type of tactics on her on the day that she passed. After Micah's tires have been slashed and a GPS tracker is removed from her car, she gets an apology email from John Paul Miller. In the apology email, Pastor John Paul Miller tells his estranged wife, quote, when someone hurts me, I try to hurt them back rather than forgive. He goes on to say,

quote, instead of forgiving you, I just attack and try to cause pain. A GPS tracker placed on her car, her tires slashed. Was she driven to commit suicide? And that's not all. Listen. Micah contacted police after her estranged husband posted an indecent photo of her on a Facebook group called Big Boobs and Nice Curves. Police told Micah since the photo was posted anonymously, there was nothing they could do. John Paul Miller apologized to Micah via email, telling her, I'm sorry for putting a picture of you on the internet. He added,

I just wanted to try and hurt you. He also included, it was evil of me to do that. Dr. Marlena Ryba is with us, forensic psychologist and research consultant. Dr. Marlena, part of the whole series of assaults in the sense of slashing tires, putting a tracker, posting her semi-nude on some fetish website, is that it's someone that you trust and that you love, which in my mind makes it so much worse. Yeah, you're absolutely correct. And I think when you're thinking about someone with these sort of personality characteristics that do align sort of with narcissism and kind of this very egocentric way of being, right? There's this need of control. They tend to disregard the feelings of others.

They're insensitive to the memory of Micah. And so, you know, even some of the behaviors that we saw in the church, right, a lot of that seems to mimic some of those behaviors. And you're right in that it is so much worse because that person is sort of taking that person's, that individual's vulnerabilities and exploiting them. Melissa Pfeiffer joining us, who has been outside the church protesting. Melissa, what exactly about all of this makes you feel you need to go out and protest? Everything, everything that Micah has said. We, all of us that are out there protesting, we believe Micah. And she's not here anymore.

I believe that if we stay quiet, I believe that this will be washed away. It needs attention. It can't just... We can't play bystander effect. We know that a grand jury is meeting and the target of that grand jury is John Paul Miller.

We also know that Micah's death has been ruled a suicide. We wait as Justice Simpels. remind everyone in our country, you are innocent, absolutely innocent until you are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. As of right now, Miller is innocent in the eyes of the law. Let's just see what happens. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.