Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Middle school girl lured online raped, choked-collared. Cyber Crimes: 'Don't Be A Victim'

Episode Date: September 23, 2020

Alicia Kozakiewicz, 13, enjoyed chatting online, but on January 1, 2002, her life was changed forever. The teen boy she thought she was talking to turned out to be a 38-year-old child molester. He lured Alicia out of her home and into hell. She was held captive in his basement dungeon, chained by the neck, sexually assaulted, and her torture was live-streamed.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Alicia Kozakiewicz - Motivational Speaker, Victim, Missing Persons Advocate, Internet Safety Expert, & Abduction Survivor Titania Jordan - BARK CMO Chief Marketing Office/Chief Parenting Office  Ashley Willcott - Judge and trial attorney, Anchor on Court TV, (www.ashleywillcott.com) Dr Daniel Bober - Forensic Psychiatrist, (follow on Instagram at drdanielbober) Detective Rich Wistocki - (WWW.CYBERPARENTING-101.COM) Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet" featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network Sierra Gillespie - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter TIPLINE: www.aliciaproject.org Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know when your child is on a playground or a ball field or a park, you can watch them. If some perv comes up to them, you can totally tackle them at the knees and take them down. Right? But the new playground, the new ball field, the new park is online. And it's not so easy. Don't be a victim. Fighting back against America's crime wave.

It took me over two years to research and write this book for you, for you and your children. My proceeds are going to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. And that's not what this book is about. This book is to help you to arm you with knowledge to save your life or your children's lives. I go straight into cyber threats to protect your children. First of all, take a listen to this. On New Year's Day 2002, between dinner and dessert, I walked outside to meet this person who I thought was my friend. Just thinking of him for a couple minutes. I really think I

just wanted to see him. Will he show up? Say hi, driving through town. What she does remember is slipping out her front door into the bitter cold January night. My intuition had said, Alicia, you need to go home. This is really dangerous. What are you doing? And I went to turn around, and I heard my name being called. The next thing I knew, I was in a car. And this man was squeezing my hand so tightly. He was barking commands at me.

Be good. Be quiet. The trunk's cleaned out for you. He drove me about five hours from my pittsburgh home to his house in virginia where i was held captive in his basement dungeon he kept me chained to the floor by a locking dog collar and i was raped and beaten and tortured. I wasn't fed, and he also broke my nose. At the time, Alicia was just a little girl, but she survived, and she is joining us today.

She was targeted by a cyber child predator. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. How can you keep your children safe from a threat you can't even see? With me, Alicia Kozakiewicz. You can find her at aliciakozak.com. Titania Jordan. She is the CMO, Chief Marketing Officer of BARC, which we use in our home. Ashley Wilcott, Judge, Trial Lawyer, Juvenile Expert, Anchor Court TV at ashleywilcott.com. Detective Rich Wistocki. His new website, cyberparenting-cott.com. Detective Rich Wistocki, his new website, CyberParenting-101.com.

Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a brand new series, Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network. And with me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Sierra Gillespie. But first, to Alicia Kozikevitz. Alicia, I can't thank you enough for joining us because I know how painful. Actually, I don't know. I don't want to know, but I can imagine how painful it is for you to talk about Scott Tyree and what happened to you. And I know the only reason you do it is to save other children's lives.

How did Tyree worm into your world as a little girl? Well, this was back in 2001, 2002, and the internet was really quite new in people's homes. And because of that, my parents didn't know the dangers. They talked to me about stranger danger, but that didn't work in the online world because that's where I was talking to all of my friends from school who would introduce me to their friends and then their friends. And we spent an amount of time in chat rooms. And soon I was talking to people I didn't really know all that well, but it could all be traced back. So it felt connected and I felt safe. I was in my home and nothing and no one had ever hurt me there before. And in this chat room, somebody messaged me who I thought was a boy around my own age. And I had believed because I was who I said I was, that this person would be who they said they were. And that is naive. Yes. But kids are naive. Yes, but kids are naive. Kids believe. And I grew up in a bubble. A lot of people have this

idea that bad things only happen to kids from broken families or troubled families or troubled children. And I grew up in this fantasy bubble. We had our issues as a family, but a really typical average family in most people's minds. And what a predator is looking for is a vulnerability. And it may seem what vulnerability would I have? I had a happy childhood. Well, all children are vulnerable. Kids can be one day on top of the world and so excited, and then the next day they get a bad grade or their crush has no interest in them or they get in a fight with their friends,

and now they feel awful. And what a predator does is they wash over those insecurities and make a child feel beautiful and important and special and unique. And that's what this person did to me. They groomed me. Well, you know what? It's called grooming, as Alicia Kozikevich is just pointing out. She survived being kidnapped and tortured.

Listen to this. When she was only 13, she was groomed, lured, and abducted by an internet predator, Scott Tyree. Who kidnapped me and held me captive in his basement dungeon, and he was going to kill me. Her disappearance setting off a massive four-day nationwide search, while Tyree kept Alicia chained to the floor at his home in Virginia. He had been live streaming what he was doing to me online. And I turned on the computer and there I was on the screen with my hands bound above my head, crying, bleeding, begging, bruised.

In between the beatings and the raping, he will hang you by your arms. In 2008, she testified in Congress in support of legislation intended to prevent cyber crimes against children and the increasing amount of photos and videos of child abuse. Support the children. Save us from pedophiles, the pornographers, the monsters. The bill passed in the House and the Senate. Guys, you were hearing John Crisos at KGME 13. Alicia lived to tell her story. And you know, it's got to be bad when the kidnapper sends her photo to another pedophile and he feels so bad

about it, he calls the FBI. But listen to Alicia with Sarah Dannett, KIMT3. There's no words to describe the the tear and the pain and the loss of self and hopelessness that you can feel in that situation. On the fourth day, Tyree told her they would be taking a ride later and left for work. Little did Alicia know the FBI was at work looking for her. Later that day agents finally found her chained up in her abductor's bedroom. All these agents rushed in and they cut that collar from around my neck and they set me free. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Guys, we are talking about how you can keep your children safe. Don't be a victim fighting back against America's crime wave. To Alicia Kozikewicz, who is with us now. Alicia, you were lulled into a seeming friendship with a guy who purported to be your age and be your friend. And when you stepped out, as you have said so poignantly, between dinner and dessert, he kidnapped you. You thought you were meeting a little boy your age. It was a grown man. And not only that, isn't it true, Alicia, that he had been released from prison on parole without his other victim knowing.

Yes, I was not made aware until I received a message from a reporter in Pittsburgh who had basically said, Are you aware that so-and-so, I don't ever say his name, it's too painful, but was released from prison and is now living in Pittsburgh in a halfway house. Incredible. Just four miles from your parents' house. Incredible that that would happen. Join me to Detective Rich Wistocki at cyberparenting-101.com. Weigh in. So, Nancy, it's so incredible these days, especially with online learning, that parents need to understand in the days of kids having their own devices now,

not just a computer in the family room. The biggest mistake parents make right now is allowing their children to have their devices in their rooms at night. When you allow your child to have their device in their rooms at night, they feel empowered, much like Alicia did. They feel that nothing could happen to them, that predator stuff happened somewhere else. The feel that nothing could happen to them, that predator stuff happens somewhere else. The next premise that parents have to understand is that there's no such thing

as privacy for children, that they buy their kid the device. They are the ones that provide the service. And if they're not monitoring remotely, like having things like bark on the device, it's not that we have bad kids, but it's these outside influences that can get to your child late at night when their inhibitions are lowered and they feel empowered. And that's how our kids get victimized. But it starts with the parents and having great technology talks with our children. A predator will hang out in chat rooms where children of the age he is targeting also hang out like Just Talk, House Party, Kik, any number of chat apps. He will pretend to be a child similar age to your child.

He will take on a believable child identity complete with a name, description, school, family, likes and dislikes. Create a rapport with your child. He will like what she likes. He will be involved in what she is involved. Maybe it's American Girl, makeovers, Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft, or soccer. He suddenly is interested in what your child is interested in, and then they have a commonality. I mean, you know, I'm going to go to our friend from Bark, but first to Ashley Wilcott. Not only is she a judge, a trial lawyer, and anchor at Court TV, she has a daughter.

You know, Ashley, does your daughter stiffen up when you look at her phone? Oh, my gosh. Stiffen up. You and i know there was a recent incident with her phone that i can share with all your listeners and let me just say this stiffen up she hates it and guess what we don't care duke and i both look at her phone see what she's doing see who she's texting and let me tell you this she's a pretty good kid but she's 12 she's already made some bad she's great she's made some bad decisions. She's great. She's made some bad decisions, though, Nancy. Why? Because their brains and people out there who will take advantage are a very bad combination and can make them a potential target. Well, are you going to tell what happened?

Nancy Grace. Okay, now wait a minute. Let's just be real. You've got the Kardashians shooting birds. Wasn't it Bella Hadid the other day was shooting a bird at the cops in her two thousand dollar designer outfit you know that is part of the problem a little unnamed girl maybe took a shot of herself shooting a bird and i feel really bad because as i was snooping through my daughter's phone and she she gets all like, why are you looking at my phone, Mom?

And I'm like, because I pay for it. It's really my phone. It just happens to be in your hands most of the time. I tell it, I actually saw the picture. But let me say this. Because my daughter is in the picture, and she's doing the double P sign. And I saw the B-I-R-D, or is it b-y-r-d anyway i'm like you know what i'm sure ashley has this totally under control so i'm not getting up all in in this

little did i find out like a month later lucy's all sulky i'm like what happened she goes um well my friend got her phone taken away i'm like let me guess it's ashley wilcox little girl so happily i did not inject myself into that but ashley that is such a minor little thing i'm saving my fights for uh tattoos drugs and alcohol all right i'm saving those fights but you know what nancy okay Okay. It's all parenting, right? But let me just say that the point is it can get away from you so quickly. They can, in the flash of an eye, meet somebody, start texting somebody, post things. So you just have to be vigilant and look at it every single day. Like with Alicia and the parents, Alicia's parents, didn't they tell you stay away

from strangers, do this, do that, do that, do this. They had no idea the little boy you were chatting with was a grown man convicted of child porn. Absolutely. It happened right under their noses and they had no idea. And I hate to come down to your parents because your parents love you so much and when you describe i think it was a christmas dinner or some kind of festive holiday dinner that you guys were all at when you disappeared i can just imagine their their wild anxiety when you had disappeared to to t Jordan, Bark CMO. You know, Titania, I got Bark before I knew you, and I love it because everything, like I told you this example, John David plays soccer,

and he dove through the net trying to save a goal, and he got a big bruise on his arm. He took a picture of the bruise to show it off to his friends. Long story short, Bark notified me. It said self-harm. I'm like, oh, dear Lord in heaven, John David, self-harm. I looked up, and it was him showing off his bruise. It's highly sensitive. What is the purpose of Bark, B-A-R-K?

Well, Nancy, thank you for asking and for sharing your personal story there. BARC is technology that keeps children safer online, and because of that, in real life. It's going to scan your children's text messages, emails, social media accounts, all kinds of things that you might not even know you need to look for in your children's devices and accounts, and it will flag the most concerning content like cyberbullying, online predators, thoughts of suicide and depression, potential drug use, and yes, even the bird. You know, here's a thing that I'm curious about, because they will go on sites like Just Talk or House Party,

and it doesn't, you, I cannot look at their texts and see what they're saying. So how do you protect against bad influences on those apps, Titania? Well, it first starts with ongoing and engaged conversations with your children. You have to have the tough conversations with them before you think they're ready, honestly. If your children are 9, 10, 11, and you haven't had a conversation about pornography, chances are they've probably already encountered it. They might not know what it is or what it's called, but they've encountered it. Same thing with mental health and even, you know, with online predators. You don't have to call them that. You can just start with the concept of tricky people,

how there are some people online who might seem like your best friend, but they do not have good intentions. And you can never be afraid to surface it to mommy, daddy, caregiver, because we don't want, you know, a cyber crime to turn into a real life crime. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we were talking about don't be a victim, fighting back against America's crime wave. Now, you know that I have Alicia Kozikevich with me. Now, her true life story of meeting a pedophile online and being abducted, being saved literally on the day Scott Tyree was set to kill her to get rid of evidence by the feds. Well, let me tell you the story of Nicole Lovell, who did not live to

tell the story. Take a listen to our friend Eva Pilgrim at ABC. The police say she snuck away to meet this man. And why wouldn't she have trusted him? David Eisenhower was a track star, good looking, successful. I realize in the moment that I'm doing things that other people wish they could be doing. He'd even been on television. And yet I still have goals for myself because there are people who are better than me. And I will personally not stop until I reach my peak performance. But Nicole never came back. Soon almost a thousand volunteers were searching and authorities scoured for leads until they

were able to track the last messages from Nicole's phone leading them to Eisenhower. When the investigation led us to 18 year old David E. Eisenhower, a Virginia Tech student. With Eisenhower in custody, authorities soon locate Nicole's body 80 miles away in North Carolina. It's about two miles from a home owned by his extended family. I'm sure that something that Nicole's family would like to know is why did she have to end up here, left in this condition, and discarded in the manner she was. Little Nicole was found completely naked, wiped down with bleach and wet wipes so there would be no evidence on her body.

She thought and had told her little friends who were at the mall that day looking for necklaces and bracelets that she had found a boyfriend and that he wanted to get married and start a family. She's barely past 12 years old. Get married? Have a family? Translation? Have underage sex. How were they communicating? Take a listen to our friends at ABC. Nicole was using a messaging app called Kik to communicate with Eisenhower, raising questions about possibly dangerous encounters. Well, I'm willing to say Kik is the devil

for young children, because it's like a free ability to text anything you want, and parents can't see the phone numbers that are coming in and out. Experts say many of these anonymous apps are popular with teens and predators. You can sign up as anybody you want to be. It really becomes a private hunting preserve for some of these pedophiles. Here's how Kik works. Download the app for free,

add any name and any photo, then you can send messages, photos, and videos, and you don't even need texting service. Parents sometimes take away these data plans, thinking that, well, the child has abused it, but they only need a Wi-Fi signal to be able to communicate. To Detective Rich Wistocki joining us, his new website, cyberparenting-101.com, I can look at the children's text messages, but how does a parent guard against things like Kik and WhatsApp, House Party, where the texts are not readily visible? So what I do is when I go through with schools throughout the country, we have to train our children. There's two points that I bring out and red flags to the kids that I teach and the parents is that if someone takes you off your gaming platform

or your social media to go to private chat, they are not who they say they are. Because if you really wanted to talk to me, why not just say it on the app or on the game? Why do I have to go over here? Well, that's because a lot of social media has programs that monitor grooming and pictures and videos that are talked to with juvenile accounts. So when the first red flag that I teach kids is that if someone takes you off to your gaming platform or private chat or your gaming or your social media to go to private chat, they are not who they say they are. Let's say they went there. And I have arrested over 100 sextortionists in my career, Nancy.

And so when they go over to that private chat, we've been friends for so long playing Roblox, probably just two months. We've been friends for so long. Do you want to see what I really look like? And if we're not having these tech conversations with our children, your kid says, sure. And then they send them the predator who they think it's their age. We'll send them an inappropriate picture or video. And then the common denominator in every sextortion case is after I send this to you, now you owe me one pick. When I go to schools and I ask the kids, sixth, seventh, eighth grade, how many of you guys have ever received the text? You owe me one pick. Half the room raises their hand. So if we're not talking to our kids our kids think that oh

there must be some internet law that i have to reciprocate the same type of picture and then they would take the same type of picture showing their you know their boobs or their butts or whatever and then they send it to the to the person they thought they've known for two months three days later that person they've been gaming with for the last two months says, hey, how do you like your new Instagram account with your booty shot on it? I'm going to send this to all your friends, your family, your church, your team, if you don't make new videos every week. Now the kid is extorted. So our parents, and I want to open your eyes to a new feature film, a documentary that we were involved in called Childhood 2.0. It's on YouTube.

Childhood 2.0 will give you the current most realistic disposition of our kids today on technology, and it's very well done. That's Detective Rich Wistocki. You can find him at cyberparenting-101.com. One thing I always do to Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, professor of forensics, and it's not just blood and fingerprints. It's computer cyber forensics as well. When I hear him, what he does is set up all of his little friends from school or on a group call as they're playing a game together. I always go in the room and say, hey, who are you playing with? As if I'm innocently interested.

He tells me, and I say hello to all the little friends. If I find him playing quietly, I say, who's that? And he goes, it's just somebody that wants to play Fortnite. I'm like, you didn't give him your name, did you? Or your school or where you live or the city or anything like that or your phone number for Pete's sake. He goes, no, no, no, Mom, I would never do that. Joe Scott Morgan, how can you trace, for instance, these apps? I always say to John David, you don't know who that is. He says his name is Derek and he's 12 years old.

That's probably a 65-year-old bald guy, you know, hiding in his apartment where he lives alone with a bunch of cats acting like a little boy he's probably going to try to get a picture of you in your underwear hang get off i think i scared him enough with that but uh how do you i mean the pervs get the children into chat rooms joe scott you know nancy this is the interesting thing is that there's a principle in forensic science that's called the cards exchange principle. And that means that every contact leaves a trace. It's not just, you know, you mentioned fingerprints and blood, and you and I talk about that a lot and we have for years now. But in this context, every individual that is operating an electronic device leaves behind a specific signature that can tie them back.

And that's what is done in order to trace them back and connect them to these cases. You're right. Here are more of the tips. And I've got pages and pages of them for you to keep your child safer cyber predators for instance signs of predators targeting your child and Alicia Tatiana to Tanya excuse me Ashley rich Joe Scott Sierra jump in if you can think of another your child spends more time online they start going online late at night. They get calls from people you don't know.

Your child gets a gift in the mail from someone you don't know. When you walk in the room, your child suddenly stops playing or they change a screen or hang up the phone. Your child starts distancing themselves from family life and no longer seems interested in things they used to love. They don't want to talk about what they're doing online. It goes on and on and on. Tips how to protect your child. crime stories with nancy grace guys we are talking about don't be a victim fighting back against america's crime wave which i wrote for you it is based on literally thousands of cases I personally investigated, prosecuted, and covered. Not to just rehash the details, but to learn to cull something good to help other people.

That means you. To Sierra Gillespie, does the name Michelle Carter ring a bell to you? What happened to Michelle Carter's extremely young and very sensitive boyfriend, Conrad Roy? Yeah, Nancy, Michelle Carter is almost an infamous name at this point. A lot of us have heard of this case. Conrad Roy was only 18 years old, and he had actually met Michelle in real life a few times. They met while on vacation in Florida visiting family, but they both live relatively close in the Boston area. And so they just texted. I mean, like any normal child would do, you're just texting your boyfriend or your friend.

They actually knew each other. So it wasn't going to be, you know, a cyber bullying situation, but it eventually came that way. Conrad confided in Michelle about he had some suicidal ideations, he was struggling with depression, and eventually she seemingly persuaded him to take his own life, which is what he did. Take a listen now to our longtime friend Aaron Moriarty. Right away, we heard from investigators that medical examiner found that it was a suicide. It wasn't until they started looking at his phone that they found that it was a suicide it wasn't until they started

looking at his phone that they realized that there was something else going on here because on that phone were hundreds and hundreds of texts from michelle carter conrad roy urging him to end his life you can't think about it you just have to do it you said you were gonna do it like I don't get why you aren't. And Michelle Carter admittedly said, do it. She was kind of making fun of him for not taking his own life. I thought you really wanted to die, but apparently you don't. I feel played and just stupid. You're going to have to prove me wrong because I just don't think you really want this. And she kept pressuring him to

do it. You're ready and prepared. All you have to do is turn the generator on and you'll be free and happy. No more pushing it off. No more waiting. There was one point where he actually got out of the truck and changed his mind. Yeah, he was scared. And she told him to go back in the truck. Yes. You know, to you, Alicia Kozikewicz, teens, especially sensitive teens, as his first girlfriend, are very susceptible and very malleable. This boy committed suicide after literally thousands,

literally thousands of communications from his so-called girlfriend, such as, do you have a generator? Not yet. Well, when are you going to get it? So are you sure you don't want to kill yourself tonight? What do you mean, am I sure? Like, are you going to get it? So are you sure you don't want to kill yourself tonight? What do you mean, am I sure?

Like, are you definitely not doing it tonight? Because I'll stay up with you if you want to do it tonight. You can't keep pushing it off. That's what you keep doing. I mean, it goes on and on and on with her pushing him, egging him on, even telling him how to hook up a generator to his car, to his truck, so he can breathe deeply and die. How malleable were you when a child predator was grooming you online, Alicia? Extremely malleable. You're looking for that connection. And when you're young,

even if you do have close friends, even if you do have a loving family, you so often feel that you're on the outside looking in and that nobody really can understand you. And these two were only, and I find this so interesting, that they only lived about an hour or so away from each other, had only seen each other a few times. And if she really wanted to help him, he wasn't far away for her to do so. All she wanted to help him do clearly was to harm himself. She's like a vulture over a body. Take a listen to Erin Moriarty, CBS CBS Carter was on the phone with Roy as he was dying of carbon monoxide poisoning inside his truck in July 2014 she never called for help when Roy apparently changed his mind and got out of his vehicle she even told him to get back inside Roy suffered from depression the hardest thing for me is to be comfortable in my own skin. And before he killed himself, Carter sent the 18-year-old dozens of texts pressuring

him to commit suicide. One read, hang yourself, jump off a building, stab yourself. I don't know. There's a lot of ways. Michelle Carter exploited my son's weaknesses and used him as a pawn. Where was her humanity? Carter, who herself has struggled with anxiety and eating disorders, wept at times during the hearing. This is a tragedy for two families. Judge Lawrence Moniz sentenced her to two and a half years in jail, but he said Carter would only have to spend half of that, 15 months, behind bars.

She also received five years probation. Tips. Watch your child closely. Are they upset after being on their device? Do they seem upset or nervous when their device pings or they get an email, text, or IM instant message? Do they sometimes avoid their device? Avoid talk of their device or online games, tries to keep their online life a secret? Their grades begin to drop. They withdraw

from real life and activities that they love. They have unexplained anger, unusual outbursts, changes in behavior. I mean, there, there's so many, literally hundreds of tips to keep you and your children safe. To you, Joe Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University. What happens when you die of carbon monoxide poisoning like Conrad Roy did. Yeah, it's a miserable way to die, Nancy, and I've worked many cases like this in my life over my course of my career, and it's a replacement. It actually, it's an exclusion of oxygen, and it causes the person to suffocate. But Nancy, on another note, if you don't mind, I've worked actually a case that's very similar to this in Atlanta where there was a group of people sitting around a table and a young man had not gone out to pick up his date for an evening out with all of his friends. and he opened the phone up on the table, put her on speaker and convinced her to actually shoot herself

while they were on the phone together. And it was one of the most horrible, heartbreaking cases that I ever came in contact with. And this is what I would say about this is that there are very fragile people out there and the internet, electronics, they are no respecter of persons because they are so, they're just this conduit for evil to creep into people's lives. In the case of this poor boy who

was just screaming out for help, and he happened to latch onto the wrong person. The case in Atlanta I was just mentioning to you. You know, this girl was longing to be accepted by that group of people. And, you know, the people were sitting there and accepted by that group of people. And, you know, the people were sitting there and they could actually hear the gunshot go off. Nancy, these people are predators and they will take advantage of anybody that's weak. And to you, Sierra Gillespie, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, isn't it true that Michelle Carter has already been released from prison. Yes, Nancy, that's true. Again, we heard she was sentenced to two and a half years in prison, but it was reduced.

So she has already been released. She's going about her life. And Conrad Roy is dead. Alicia Kozikiewicz, your life and your family's life has forever been changed. I know you founded the AliciaProject.org. I know you're a tireless crusader. But what is your single most important piece of advice to parents like me that want to protect their children? Well, I've noticed that parents have gone from clueless to complacent. When I first started speaking out when I was 14 years old all those years ago and nobody

was quite talking about this, people didn't believe me that it was happening. I was called a fear monger and parents downright said things to me like, well, I know my child is not on MySpace, which was popular at the time, because I have the email address for the house. They really believed that they had one email address and that was all you got. And now it seems that parents are knowing that they're knowledgeable of the dangers, but they still turn away and say, well, not my child. That happens to other people and to other families. And you have to look into your own life and to protect your own child and to be a parent and to have those

uncomfortable conversations. Because kids will have to make decisions. It will happen. They will be online and somebody will message them and they will say, send me a picture or meet me, or they will be cyberbullied. Something is likely to happen and they have to have the ability to make the right decisions. And that comes from those sometimes uncomfortable conversations. Please don't be a victim. Fight back and save your child. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.