Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - MILLIONAIRE-PARTY-MOM MOWS DOWN 2 BOYS WITH MERCEDES, JURY-RIGS?

Episode Date: May 24, 2024

While Rebecca Grossman awaits sentencing for mowing down Mark and Jacob Iskander while the Iskander family walked through a crosswalk, Grossman has allegedly been misusing her jail phone privileges. Prosecutors say the recorded calls document potential criminal conspiracies, such as requests to disclose protected discovery, discussion of various attempts to interfere with witnesses and their testimony, and attempts to tamper with the jury and influence a judge from behind bars. In one call, Grossman tells her husband to call Scott Erickson, her ex-lover and former major league pitcher, and "tell him to get on a video and that he needs to confess.” In another, Grossman is said to have told her 19-year-old daughter, Alexis, to release the body-camera video footage from the deputy on the scene even though that footage has been sealed. Her daughter responds, "I will." Grossman's private investigator, Paul Stuckey, also allegedly contacted at least two jurors from Grossman's trial. The DA argues that the only way Stuckey could have found out juror names would be to access a pre-dealing jury list, which amounts to both jury tampering and illegally having jurors' personal information. The Iskander family also accuses Grossman of "playing games" in court, by hiring a new defense attorney, James Spertus, currently representing Diana Teran from the Los Angeles District Attorney's office. Teran is charged with 11 felonies for allegedly misusing confidential law enforcement records. Before she was charged, Teran oversaw the prosecutors in Grossman's second-degree murder trial. Because of this, the DA reassigned the prosecutors from the case due to a potential conflict of interest. The DA's office backtracked on the move days later, reinstating the original prosecutors on the case. At a hearing addressing Spertus' conflict of interest, Judge Joseph Brandolino says he sees no sign of conflict and Grossman’s sentencing hearing will go on as scheduled on June 10. Grossman is expected back in court in early June to address Spertus' recent filing for a new trial. Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Matthew Mangino – Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County); Author: “The Executioner’s Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States” Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych/FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice Robin Dreeke – Behavior Expert & Retired FBI Special Agent / Chief of the FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program; Author: “Sizing People Up: A Veteran FBI Agents Manual for Behavior Prediction;” X: @rdreekeke  Dr. Jan Gorniak – Medical Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner (Las Vegas, NV), Board Certified Forensic Pathologist Eamon Murphy - Writer for 'The Acorn' Newspaper in California  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Breaking news tonight, a young mom and dad walking with their children on a stroll in the neighborhood when suddenly out of nowhere, a married millionaire socialite comes flying around the curve after a boozy date with her boyfriend? Drag racing. Yes, drag racing. Mom tries desperately to save all of her children, risking her own life to save them, but she could not reach two of her little boys. Tonight, after mowing down two little boys dead and then fleeing the scene of the crash, only stopping when her airbags deploy on her Mercedes and it literally stopped. Now,

am I actually hearing reports she is tampering with the jury? Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Two SUVs are speeding toward a crosswalk where the Iskander family is crossing. Nancy Iskander says the cars are zigzagging with each other as if they were playing or racing. The drivers don't stop at the intersection, not even when two children are hit. Nancy Iskander says the cars didn't stop, even with her 11-year-old son Mark on the hood of the car. He is found 254 feet away. Her 8-year-old son Jacob is tossed 50 feet and is lying near the curb. You know, I've covered a lot of vehicular homicides.

I have prosecuted vehicular homicides. I have prosecuted vehicular homicides and I don't believe I have ever seen a case where a human was thrown 250 feet, the other child thrown 50 feet. That is nearly the length of a football field. There's been a lot of back and forth about whether she was drag racing or not. Does it matter? After drinking and reportedly using drugs on some boozy date with her boyfriend, this multi-millionaire woman, she's got everything. Why does she have to do this? And then apparently the athlete boyfriend she was canoodling with goes and hides in the bushes and sees. Oh, yeah, him.

Him. Goes and hides to see what unfolded. Anybody go out and try to save the boys? Did they even stop? No, they didn't. And now is this real? She's actually trying to get to the judge, trying to get friends to talk the judge into a new trial, trying to reach out to jurors to say what, what, what, trying to get a new trial and even contacting the boy's mother and father?

With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But first, to Eamon Murphy joining us with the Acorn News. Eamon, I'm going to get back to the actual mowing down the two little boys and then continuing to go until your airbags deploy and stop your Mercedes? I'll get back to that. But what can you tell me about this woman who the judge amazingly says, oh, she's just naive. Really? What can you tell me about them trying to reach the mom and dad of the little boy victims? Well, she sent them a letter after she was convicted and they had previously expressed a desire not to be contacted by her. Well, Eamon, you're exactly correct. Listen. Nancy and Kareem Iskender endure the deaths of their two boys hit and killed by

socialite Rebecca Grossman speeding through the streets. Now they claim Grossman is writing them from jail. After receiving a letter from Grossman on March 13th, the Iskanders reach out to the county, asking officials to put a stop to it. You know, I'm very curious. Do we know, Eamon, what she's writing about? Now this is after the victim's parents specifically say, go away, woman, leave us alone. Yet she writes them to say what? She had a chance to apologize already. We're not sure what the letter said.

It hasn't been made public. The judge did order her not to have any more contact. So we don't know at this point what she what she said to to Nancy and Kareem Iskander. Take a listen to how this young mom describes the moment she finds son Jacob. His mother described finding Jacob near the curb. Authorities say he was thrown about 50 feet in the collision. She said it looked like he was sleeping and she put her ear to his chest and heard his heart beating. He was taken to a hospital where he was pronounced dead a few hours later. Mark was 254 feet away, a

distance a deputy who specializes in crash incidents previously testified was the farthest he has known a human to be tossed in a crash. His mother said his body was crumpled and he had blood pouring out of his nose. He was pronounced dead at the scene. Straight back to Eamon Murphy joining us from the Acorn. Tell me about what happened the day that these two little boys were mowed down by socialite Rebecca Grossman. Well, it was September 2020, and the family had gone out to take a walk along the lake in West Lake Village where they lived. It was COVID, so they were out getting some air. Nancy Iskander and her three sons went to cross the street towards the lake. Her husband and their baby daughter had proceeded down the street further, so they were separate at that point. While Nancy and her sons were

crossing the street, Nancy was in front with her youngest boy and the two older boys, Mark and Jacob, were behind them in the crosswalk. As Nancy got towards the curb in the second two lanes of traffic, because it's a four lane divided road, two SUVs came roaring up the road, a black and a white. The black was in front. She said they were zigzagging as if they were playing or racing. She grabbed her youngest boy and dove out of the way of the first car, the black car. And then the white car went through and she turned and saw that Mark and Jacob were gone. And Mark had been struck and was 50 feet forward. And Jacob was sorry, Mark was 250 feet and Jacob was 50 feet. And Jacob died at the hospital and Mark died at the scene.

With us, an all star panel to make sense of what we know right now. To Dr. Jan Gorniak joining us. Dr. Gorniak, board-certified forensic pathologist, renowned medical examiner, former medical examiner, Clark County. That's Vegas. Dr. Gorniak, as always, it's such an honor to have you on with us. Thank you for taking time to be with us and address this case. For a child to be thrown 254 feet through the air, another child 50 feet, one of them was on the hood of the car for a period of time, the internal injuries had to be horrific.

Yes. Just looking at the vehicle, you see how much damage is to the vehicle. And that's from impact to the children, you know, horrifically. So I'd say that Jacob was the one that was close to the curb do I have that correct and so and he was and so he his mom unfortunately oh this is so sad could still hear his his heart beating and was taken to the hospital where he was later pronounced dead so, I'm just looking at the height difference. So I'm like an adult getting hit by a car, right? You think more lower impact to the body. So the height of these kids, you're thinking more chest impact and more head impact. So Jacob, who was close, he probably, you know, didn't fly up onto the hood like Mark did. And that's why he traveled more.

So he probably got more, depending on what part of the SUV hit him, he could have been tossed by like the front corner panel and tossed. Meanwhile, Mark got up on the hood and you can actually see the indentation on the hood and then was carried by the speed. And then when he was tossed off, he went that far. So I'm surmising head trauma, definitely chest trauma, internal injuries, fractures, multiple, multiple injuries. And unfortunately, obviously, this is the story that we're talking about today. Taking a look at these two little boys out walking with their mom and dad and sibling in their neighborhood, and they never make it back home. Why? Because Rebecca Grossman, a wealthy socialite, plows them down with her Mercedes, playing some kind of a drag racing

game with her boyfriend. Where was her husband? Long story short, what happens next? Listen. Deputies reportedly catch up with the white Mercedes with significant front end damage, a third of a mile from the scene. Behind the wheel is Rebecca Grossman. A deputy describes finding the vehicle stopped at the curb and Grossman saying she didn't know why her airbag had been triggered. As Grossman speaks to a 911 operator, she's asked if she hit someone. Grossman can be heard saying, I don't know what I hit. But isn't it true to Eamon Murphy joining us from the Acorn? She actually, a trial, tried to blame the boyfriend.

And why was he hiding in the bushes watching everything? That was the whole defense was that the boyfriend's car, the boyfriend being Scott Erickson, a former major league baseball pitcher, that it was in fact his car that hit the boys first. Question. Yes. You think I care he was with the MLB? I don't care. I don't care who he is. I don't care if he's Elvis Presley come back from the dead. OK, he's hiding in the bushes. Why? Why do people hide, Eamon? Because they're afraid. OK, why is he afraid? Because he knows they've done something wrong. That's actually that was part of the defense, the hiding in the bushes bit. And it was Rebecca Grossman's daughter

who testified to that. Alexis Grossman said she saw Scott Erickson hiding in the bushes. The prosecution disputed this, challenged her account of that evening. And the hiding in the bushes was no deputy reported or anybody reported seeing anyone hiding in the bushes throughout the whole investigation. But as part of the story that that cast suspicion on Scott Erickson, it was said by Rebecca Grossman's lawyers that he hid in the bushes to watch the investigation and also went back to confront Alexis Grossman saying, you know, don't tell anybody about this, you know, threatening her and so on. That was all part of the defense. OK, well, let me ask you a couple of more questions regarding the boyfriend. Now, is the boyfriend also married like Rebecca Grossman is? I believe he's divorced.

OK, so then no. I don't care who's cheating on who, who's sleeping with who, who's getting drunk at lunch. I don't care what they're doing in their spare time. That's between her and her husband. But when it comes to what happened after that, I care. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So that night, that night, tell me, Eamon, the cops come to her car, which is now disabled because the airbag went off. And what does she say? I didn't do it with the whole front end of the car bashed in? Well, she said that her airbag, she came around the corner and the airbag went off

and that she didn't know what she hit. So that was her position immediately afterwards. And the deputies had indicated to her that there was an accident. There were perhaps children involved. And she, you know, it was her position that she hadn't seen, you know, what she had in the road and that she didn't know why the airbag went off. Straight out to Matthew Mangino, joining us, high profile lawyer, former prosecutor, author of The Executioner's Toll. Get this, crimes, arrests, trials, appeals, last meals, and final words of the executions of 46 people in the U S okay.

You had me at last meals. The rest of that was just fluff. That said, Matthew Mangino, what is this woman thinking? You know, first of all, 0.08 is typically the legal limit throughout across our country. 0.08. Now, this woman had Valium and booze in her system. I'm going to go back to Dr. Gorniak in just a moment on this. But Mangino, why don't we just mix those two together?

Shouldn't the blood alcohol be enhanced when you're also popping pills? I mean, I don't get it. This woman has everything. She and her husband created this wonderful burn clinic that's done so much good. She's like the nonprofit queen of California. She's got it all. Designer this designer, that you name it. Why does she have to get drunk and high on Valium at lunch with her boyfriend and do this?

Well, Nancy, she's obviously a very selfish person as well. Um, you know, she's going to use alcohol and Valium. She's going to drive through a residential area at a high rate of speed, maybe drag racing with her lover as she goes to her home. Man, Gino, what do you mean? Maybe drag racing? Just say it, man. The witnesses say she's weaving back and forth. The boyfriend, the one they call him hid in the bushes after the crash, he's weaving back and forth. Two cars weaving back and forth in a residential area. Her speed, 73 mph.

I call that drag racing. That's what I call that. And that's against the law. So why are you so timid about it? Say it, man. Speak the truth. I'm sorry, Nancy timid about it? Say it, man. Speak the truth. I'm sorry, Nancy. Oh, now you're still apologizing.

Don't. This woman killed two boys. Yes, she did. Think about your child at age eight, at age 11. I mean, no shame. No shame, Mangino. Why couldn't we merge the alcohol with the Valium? Well, I don't know why there couldn't be a relation back test. So we know three hours later she's at.08.

That means that if she hasn't had any alcohol, which I would assume she wouldn't, you could relate back, you know, with a toxicologist to show what her alcohol level might have been at the time of the accident. And you mix that with Valium, at least in Pennsylvania, where I practice, any drug in your system that could impair you could result in a DUI because there's no way of measuring the level of value or the level of marijuana to determine whether or not that you are under the influence. So just any trace of it in your blood is enough to charge somebody with driving under the influence. Hey, Matthew, you're a veteran trial lawyer. And I say that with a great deal of respect because, you know, there's a lot of lawyers that claim they're trial lawyers because they send interrogatories like written questions to the other side and then they write their answers and then they

send them back and they go back. I mean you've been in the courtroom duking it out, getting hot, sweaty, dirty, bloody in the courtroom trying a case on both sides. You know what it's like. This is what I've learned from my vehicular homicides. 0.08 typically put a male at four drinks. Okay. 0.08 equals four drinks for an adult. So she's's had four alcoholic drinks, and I don't mean a beer, I mean hard liquor, plus the Valium, she's out of her gourd and trying to drive in her big fat Mercedes at 73 miles an hour. You know what?

She probably didn't know what she hit. Matthew? Well, yeah, she may not have. I mean, she is impaired and she's driving through a residential neighborhood at a high rate of speed, drag racing. But ultimately, you know, that, you know, defense that, oh, I don't know what I hit in my airbag deployed. And I continue driving and I never went back to see what I hit. You know, all adds up to someone who does know that they did something terribly wrong and doesn't want to face that. In the hours before the crash, Grossman is seen drinking margaritas with former Mets and Yankees pitcher Scott Erickson.

Grossman and Erickson were reportedly driving from Julio's restaurant in separate SUVs. Police say the two sped closely together through the crosswalk with Erickson in the lead racing. Erickson is charged with misdemeanor. A judge orders him to make a public service announcement about the importance of safe driving with a teenage audience in mind. His case wrapped in 2022. Still, Erickson's attorney maintains he wasn't racing or driving recklessly and had no involvement in the hit and run that killed the boys. Erickson's SUV shows no sign of damage. Okay, his SUV shows no sign of damage to the boyfriend. Hers is bashed in in the front, yet she says she didn't do it and tries to blame the boyfriend.

Guys, the antics don't stop there. The dirty tactics of killer socialite Rebecca Grossman all to try and get a new trial. Go on. She mowed down two little boys while drunk and on. There they are. And on Valium. And as far as drag racing or not drag racing, listen. Two cars were racing.

We believe speed is a factor. Alcohol is a factor. You are hearing right there Captain Salvador Buqueira from the L.A. County Sheriff's Department. That's one of our friends at NBC LA4. A grown woman, a millionaire, drag racing, drunk, her Mercedes. Joining me in addition to Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, is Robin Dreek, behavior expert, former FBI special agent, and author of Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior prediction. Also, it's not all about me. You've got a ton of awesome books. Wow. Okay. I've only got time to put out two of them. Robin Drake. What is a grown woman married? And I'm not

the church lady. If people want to run around, go, go. I'd just be mad if you didn't. But a grown woman with everything she could possibly want ever, a family, a lovely family, a husband, a philanthropist, a mansion, the Mercedes, the clothes, the hair, the this, the that. I mean, what is a grown woman drunk and on Valium flying at 73 MPH through a residential neighborhood and mowing down these two boys? Well, you said she's a grown woman, but she's not. I mean, our first impressions we get when we hear stories like this that fill us with rage is exactly what we saw. We saw a drunk teenager because that's when her development stopped i think and she's chasing happiness through her life and happiness she thinks is through materialism and so she keeps chasing it she's caught up in the cult of more the disease

of comparison and the tragedy came because of her being a drunk teenager it's really plain and simple because all her behaviors from that point are exactly the same. It's me, me, me. Even that letter that she sent to the family that she wasn't supposed to, I guarantee you if we had a copy of that, it would be all about her. Okay. Robin's Rick, I'm totally with you. Except when you say she's a drunk teenager, everybody in this studio went, huh? What? Okay. Because that's kind of letting her off the hook. She's not a teenager. She's a 50 something year old woman. She's gorgeous. She has everything you could possibly want in life. All right. And calling her, even if you

think her development stopped as a teen, it didn't. This woman is at one charity ball after the next in designer clothes. You know, Karen Stark, can you help me? Because I obviously was not clear in my question to Robert Drink, former FBI. I expected something different from him. I'm going to let him think about what he said. Karen Stark, renowned TV radio trauma expert at KarenStark.com. Karen joining us today from Manhattan. Help me, Karen. What is it? What? The more all your dreams come true, the more your prayers are answered, the worse you become. That's completely bass backwards.

And then trying to pin it on the boyfriend. Nancy, she's a narcissist. She's not a teenager. I'm sorry to say, but she really is a narcissist who only thinks about herself. Think about what she said even with the jury they're not a good jury why are they not a good jury because i could already tell they're not going to be on my side and you get that what she wrote to that family which she wasn't supposed to write was all of that how she didn't mean it she couldn't have done it she didn't know and yet

she knew she had something i don't know what I hit, but I hit something. She's totally responsible for what happened. Karen, please come down out of your ivory tower for just one moment. I know she's responsible. I'm saying, why did she do this? What is her behavior? Why? I don't understand it because I have this plaque, I guess you would call it.

It sits on our kitchen island. And you know what it says? It says, I remember when I prayed for the things I have now. My husband, my family, my mom is still with me. You know, health, this incredible job, so many blessings. I see that every single morning. But it seems like some people get all these prayers answered, all these blessings, and they just gobble it up and keep gobbling it up at everyone else's expense. Karen, even now that she's convicted, she's trying to get somebody to get to the judge, to influence the judge in this case,

trying to contact the jurors. And Karen, I learned about this as a prosecutor. The defense will send out their own PI, private investigator, and they won't tell the witness or the juror or the whoever. I work for the defense. They go, hey, I'm a private investigator working on the case of blah. And then they'll try to get information out of the target. A lot of these people said we didn't even know who we were talking to. They didn't identify they were working for her, Rebecca Grossberg. Just explain to me what this behavior is, even now trying to manipulate the system. I know it's hard to believe, Nancy, but she doesn't care about anyone but herself. Yes, she has everything in the world and you're grateful. And I like to think I am really grateful but she

could care less because she believes she's entitled to have what she has and she's entitled to get away with this and say that she's innocent and influence the jurors and have it be all about her not what she did she doesn't care what she did. She's going to make sure that she's going to get off and be OK. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Prosecutors fear Grossman may be using her phone privileges to find someone to get to Judge Joseph Brandolino to convince the judge to give her a new trial. Prosecutors say the recorded calls document potential criminal conspiracies, such as requests to disclose protected discovery, discussions of various attempts to interfere with witnesses and their testimony. In one call, Grossman tells her husband to talk to her ex-lover, former Major League pitcher Scott Erickson. On the recorded call February 25th, Rebecca Grossman tells her husband to quote,

call Scott Erickson and tell him to get on a video and that he needs to confess. Eamon Murphy, investigative reporter, writer for The Acorn News. Eamon, again, thank you for being with us. What did I just hear? She actually is trying to suborn perjury and nobody's doing anything. Trying to get the boyfriend to make a video or what, catch him on video or record him on the phone, trying to get him to claim he's the one that mowed down the little boys. That's suborning perjury. Well, the judge addressed that in court. His position was they weren't asking Scott Erickson to do anything that they didn't think was true. That's what the judge said.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, Eamon. I'm having a hard time ingesting what you're just saying. Is this the same judge that sat through the jury trial? Yes, same judge. Okay, so he knows that it was Rebecca Grossman that mowed down the two little boys. Yes, no. Well, he knows that that was what the jury found. He didn't see that picture that I just saw of the front end of her white Mercedes bashed in

from a little boy getting run down. He didn't see that. He saw that and more. He heard from experts talking about how the impact matched the position of the boys, even how the pattern on the grill matched wounds on one of the boys. So judge knows what the jury said, but this judge actually stated with a straight face, well, trying to get her boyfriend to say he really ran the boys down. That's not really suborning perjury because she thinks they think it's true. It's not true. It is suborning perjury. Why is this judge bending over backwards, contorting the facts and the law in Rebecca Grossman's favor? Why, Eamon? I mean, I can't speculate about, you know, what's even handed in the sense of ensuring a process that is totally fair and, you know, would hold up on appeal to be really frank, because now we do have a motion

for a new trial, which is not an appeal, but it is an attempt to question the process that led to the conviction. And all of it is being questioned by her new lawyers. So the judge, I think, wanted to make sure all the boxes were checked, you know, all the I's dotted, all the T's crossed. Well, is it true also, Eamon Murphy from the Acorn, that he kind of wrote off all of her behavior? And this is not just her. Somebody's on the other end of

that phone, that jail phone that is recording, FYI. Somebody's going along with it, aiding, abetting, encouraging her, responding to her. That is what we call under the law, Matthew Mangino, a conspiracy to commit a crime. When you have someone colluding and aiding and abetting, encouraging, that's conspiring to do a bad thing. This woman's convicted of a double vehicular homicide and now she's trying to get her ex-lover to go on video and say, okay I did it. That is suborning perjury, Mangino. Why is a judge dancing around it like a ballet artist? Well, the first thing that's most appalling is that she was able to contact the victims in this

case. Normally after conviction, and even when you're on bail, there's a no contact order. You can't reach out and contact the victims as a defendant directly. The issue with regard to talking to jurors, that's common. Private investigators going to talk to jurors. Unless they're trying to get them to claim misdoing like an Alex Murdoch and try to get a new trial. You think that's okay? No, it's not okay, but it's not necessarily inappropriate to reach out to jurors after a case. But what is inappropriate and illegal is to try to influence the outcome of your appeal by, number one, trying to seek someone to talk to the judge. Number two, by trying to influence witnesses in some way and trying to have someone confess that you know is not guilty.

Have that person confess to the crime. I think it's a wild idea and no one's going to do it. Still suborning perjury. Can you just say yes, no, Matthew Mangino? I don't know why everybody's saying inappropriate. It's more than inappropriate. It's suborning perjury. You're trying to get someone to lie about what happened and submit it, show it to the court. Matthew Mangino, the jury has spoken. The judge knows what happened.

And now this woman is trying to get a new trial based on perjured testimony. Is that not suborning perjury, Matthew? Well, it would be. But Nancy, the idea here, and this is where I think the judge is talking maybe about being naive. Do you think someone is going to come forward and confess to killing two children because your husband? No, I don't. You know what I think? I think that some people for the right amount of money, a million dollars, and knowing that they would be acquitted at trial. If the boyfriend went on trial, let's get real. What about a drink? If the boyfriend goes on trial, if the boyfriend does this video that she's asking him to do and he goes on trial, okay, or her case gets reversed because of it, new evidence, he's going to get acquitted

because all his lawyers got to do is say, hey, they already convicted her. It's not him. And they'll let him go too. Under those circumstances, he might do it. Yeah, maybe. And I don't like any of this having to do with the judge. I don't like any of it having to do with the fact that how come it took him three hours for law enforcement to give her the blood alcohol test? I just don't like the look of all the confirmation bias in her favor going on here.

So I don't put it past, I don't think it was naivete at all. I think it was completely her trying to subvert the system for her own benefit. I'll tell you my theory. My theory is, Robin Dreek, that Rebecca Grossman and her husband are wealthy. They're millionaires with high social standing versus the Iskanders who are nowhere, nowhere in money, in power, in prestige that the Grossmans have. And so everybody is bending over backwards to help the Grossmans. She is behind bars trying to get her friends to influence the judge, trying to reach the jurors to do what? Recant? Say that they, that was not a true verdict?

Change their minds post-verdict? Trying to suborn perjury and nothing is happening. In fact, the judge actually calls her, quote, naive. Help me, Drake. This is BS. I totally agree, Nancy. And whenever we see a behavior like this, it's very rarely the first time the behavior has happened. And so I think they just have in this area with that kind of affluence, they probably have a reputation and a lifetime of reps, as I call them, of doing just this kind of thing, having favoritism towards this part of society.

And I think it's incredibly unjust. Two little boys were murdered by her complete narcissistic negligence. When Rebecca Grossman adds defense attorney James Spurtis to her team, the prosecution objects over a possible conflict of interest as Spurtis currently represents Diana Teran from the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office.

Teran is charged with 11 felonies for allegedly misusing confidential law enforcement records. But Tarana is charged with 11 felonies for allegedly misusing confidential law enforcement records, but before she was charged with those crimes, she oversaw the prosecutors in Grossman's second-degree murder trial. Because of this, the DA reassigned the prosecutors from the case due to a potential conflict of interest. Straight out to a special guest joining us, Eamon from Acorn. Eamon Murphy, what exactly is the alleged conflict of interest that could result in a new trial for Rebecca Grossman? Well, it's not that the conflict would result in a new trial. It's more that it could be an issue

on appeal. The conflict is that James Spurtis, her new lawyer, also represents Diana Turan, who was an assistant district attorney supervising the prosecution of Rebecca Grossman. So at first, the prosecutors filed a motion saying this is a potential conflict because he's representing a defendant who was prosecuted by a team that she oversaw. Then they looked into it further and they filed a motion earlier this month saying there's an actual conflict here because when James Spurtis prepares a motion for a new trial, one argument he might make is prosecutorial misconduct. That would require him impugning the work of his other client. So that's a conflict for her, Diana Turan.

And if he doesn't do that on appeal, Rebecca Grossman could claim, well, he didn't do that because he was representing Diana Turan and he didn't want to call her work into question. The judge has just ruled there is no conflict of interest in Grossman's case after she hired a lawyer who also, that lawyer also represents a woman who used to work for the DA's office and that woman oversaw the trial. So there is a lawyer that represents a former prosecutor. That prosecutor has now caught some charges. That prosecutor worked on Grossman's prosecution. Okay.

So Grossman goes and hires the lawyer for the prosecutor. That's her decision. She knows about the conflict and she's waiving the conflict by hiring that lawyer. Correct? The judge didn't find an actual conflict. He did have her waive the potential conflict so that it won't come up as an appeal issue. The charges against Diana Turan were announced about a month after James Spurtis became attorney of record for Rebecca Grossman. So she was not charged at that point when he joined Rebecca Grossman's team. But his firm had represented her in the past in another matter. Judge said, you know, these cases are not related, so we don't have an actual conflict. But out of an abundance of caution, we'll have the defendant waive this as a potential issue so she can't bring it up down the road.

Just more heartache for the victim's parents. We wait as justice unfolds. And we stop to remember American hero Deputy Sheriff David Bozeker, shot and killed in the line of duty. Deputy Bozeker, a U.S. Marine veteran, 21 years in law enforcement, survived by grieving wife Brenda and stepson John. American hero, Deputy Sheriff David Bozeker. Thank you to all of our guests for being with us tonight, but especially to you for joining with us.

Nancy Grace signing off. Good night, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.