Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Missing Carlee Russell: 'I Lied!'

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

Carlee Russell calls 911, telling the operator that she sees a toddler walking down the side of an Alabama freeway.  When police arrive, there's no toddler and  Russell is gone. Her car, however, is still parked along the highway. The door is open and the car is running. Forty-nine hours later, Russell returns home, telling investigators in a brief interview that she was abducted by a man with orange hair and a woman.   As the investigation continued, police find some “really strange” internet searches in the hours before she vanished, such as the cutoff age for an AMBER Alert.   Now Russell admits via a statement from her lawyer that there was no toddler or abduction.  Joining Nancy Grace today: James Shelnutt – Attorney – The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; 27-year Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective and Former S.W.A.T. Officer; Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm Caryn Stark – Psychologist- Trauma and Crime Expert; Twitter: @carnpsych Sheryl McCollum – Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder; Host of new podcast, “Zone 7;” Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Lee Reiber – Mobile Device Forensic Expert, COO: Oxygen Forensics, Inc., Author: “Mobile Forensic Investigations: A Guide to Evidence Collection, Analysis, and Presentation” Mike Hadsell – President and Founder of Peace River K9 Search and Rescue; Twitter: @K9River Savannah Sapp – Multimedia Journalist and Reporter for WAFF48 in Alabama; Twitter: @Savannah Sapp/Instagram:@savannahsapp.tv/Facebook:SavannahSappWAFF48  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It's all a lie, a fabrication, as some people call it. It's an outright lie, as many of you legal eagles had already figured out through your sleuthing and just plain common sense. Carly Russell is a big liar. Take a listen to this. But the question is, where was she for those 49 hours? She said she stayed in Hoover the entire time and no one helped her. So where was she for those 49 hours? Where did she sleep?

Where did she stay? How did she leave that area where she abandoned her red Mercedes sedan? Now, a lot of questions left unanswered. We also asked about potential charges, and the chief told us they're looking into that. Prosecutors looking into what charges could be filed against her her and then they'll decide whether those charges will be filed you're hearing our friends at wvtm with me an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now but for those of you just joining us on the story of 25 year old carly russell who says that she is only trying to render a to a tot boy walking along the interstate wearing

nothing but a diaper and a shirt. Then she goes missing for 49 hours, throwing her family and the Hoover PD into chaos as they search for her literally around the clock. People donating nearly $70,000 to help find her. One anonymous donor giving $25,000. They're not getting any of that money back. The boyfriend that defended her to the hilt has now broken up with her and says, quote, I'm disgusted. Well, I second that emotion. Guys, I want you to hear what the chief of the Hoover PD has to say in our cut 54. Mr. Anthony asked that I read the statement in its entirety, which I will do now. My client has given me permission to make the following statement on her behalf. There was no kidnapping on Thursday, July 9th, 13th, 2023.

My client did not see a baby on the side of the road. My client did not leave the Hoover area the side of the road. My client did not leave the Hoover area when she was identified as a missing person. My client did not have any help in this incident, but this was a single act done by herself. My client was not with anyone or any hotel with anyone from the time she was missing. Okay, let me understand that. That is Chief Nick Dervis from the Hoover PD reading a statement of a lawyer who has been given a statement by Curly Russell woman get out there and apologize yourself for Pete's sake but you're hearing from Curly Russell through her lawyer through

the chief but I want you to hear this too now you you hear the chief saying there was no baby. There was no one in danger. I was never missing. Now take a listen to Hour Cut 7, the 911 call. Listen to how rich in detail it is. 442 for a 71. 71 is going to be 459 South, mile marker 10. It's going to be a child walking on the, three or four-year-old child walking on the side of the interstate next to her. RP's going to be close by in a red Mercedes sedan with the hazards on. Child's going to be a white male wearing a white t-shirt and a diaper. 42 copy. From the YMCA. And 4.

4-42. RP's advising there's no cars in the area. Looks like the child has been abandoned on the side of the road. 442 calls. 4-1, you still got a little phone? Negative, but she's saying that she would stand by for police. 442 called. RP back. She's not at their vehicle. Now remember, police

got to the scene in about four minutes after that 911 call. Now let's listen to Carly Russell in her own words. The detail I was mentioning earlier in our cut 13. 911, where's your emergency? Hi, I am on interstate 459 and there is a kid just walking by their self. Oh, hold on, hold on. Where on 459 are you? I'm right next to the exit 10 by the Hoover Met, like to get off by the Hoover Met. Okay, so you're before that exit?

Yes. Okay, and were you headed southbound or northbound? Like toward Tuscaloosa or toward 280? Toward Tuscaloosa. Okay, and was the child on the left or right side? On the right side. Were they walking northbound or southbound? They're walking towards Tuscaloosabound or southbound um they're walking

towards tuscaloosa walking southbound did you hear that detail oh there's more listen to cup 14 or how old do they look um like a toddler like maybe like three or four did you pull over with them are you still with them yes okay you're are you with the child right now no i'm not i didn't get out of the car. I can see them, though. Do you mind staying and keeping an eye on them until we get there? Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah. Okay, what kind of car are you in?

I'm in a red Mercedes Benz. Is that a sedan or SUV? SUV. I mean, it's a sedan, sorry. Can you put your hazards on for me? Yeah, they're on. Okay, did you talk to the child at all, or did me? Yeah, they're on. Okay. Did you talk to the child at all or did you say anything to them? No. Okay. No. Do they look like they're injured? No, they don't. I love listening to this 911 call because I know every word she says is a big fat

lie. And can you imagine her in her red Mercedes at night conjuring up this lie in its intricate detail. Listen to more. Cut 15. shirt and it doesn't look like he has any pants on it looks like a diaper you don't see any cars anywhere no no cars anywhere okay all right what's your name my name is carly russell and you don't see any injuries on the child from where you're at correct no no but i can't really see them that good okay try to keep an eye on them for the best we can because i don't want you to lose track of them and do they have shoes on no not that i can see i can't really see that what all right i've got them on the way okay just try to stay keep an eye on them but officers are on the way okay okay thanks man she's such a good samaritan a good samaritan that cost the taxpayers that's us about five hundred thousand dollars and cost well-wishers and those who want to help nearly $70,000 in donations. They're not going to get back.

With me, an all-star panel, but can I first go to Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, star of Zone 7, a hit new podcast. And you can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. Cheryl, really? He's wearing nothing but a diaper, and I can't tell if he has on any shoes and he's a white male about three or four years old and I'm so worried. I'm so worried that I'm not getting out of my car, of course, but I am worried and I'm going to follow him for 600 yards in my car, that six football fields, as I track. Boy, that little tot should be in the Olympics if it can go that fast

in nothing but a diaper and barefoot. I mean, the story reeked on day one. That's why I didn't cover it exactly on day one, because it was a lie. It was obviously a lie. And we have actual people that are really missing being raped, being sex trafficked, being killed. And here's this girl making up a whole big deal because what? I just want somebody to love me. Really? Get online, woman. There are millions of people out there that will love you.

But why do this? What about this statement on 911? You make excellent points. But let's talk for a second about what we don't hear her say. We don't hear her say, please hurry. We don't hear her say, please hurry. We don't hear her say, help. We don't hear her say, I'm going to go out and try to save him so that he doesn't get into the expressway. She's just in her car chilling, and she's only answering questions.

She didn't offer the description. She didn't offer that he wasn't hurt. She didn't offer she description. She didn't offer that he wasn't hurt. She didn't offer. She was asked those things. The only truthful statement she says in the whole thing is when she says, yeah, I can't really see. That's the truth. Yeah. Well, now we're just trying to figure out what really happened during those days. And I've got a pretty good idea that she was holed up in something akin to a red roof inn. And I'll tell you why. Guys, take a listen to Hour Cut 16.

754, unclassified complaint, 1466 Montgomery Highway at the red roof inn. The front office, her caller, family members at this location saying they received a call from the female that's missing, Carly Russell. 754, family members are saying they received a call from the female saying she was at this location. 754 and around. Six of the responding units just spoke with the front desk load. They said that the family is not being hostile or anything like that, but that there was about six car loads of people that have just shown up over there. Five-four copy.

Did the front desk have anybody checked in under that name? Negative. And according to the front desk, the message that the family got did not state which Red Roof Inn. Well, I know this. This is 1466 Montgomery Highway at the Red Roof Inn. That's where the family went. And nobody was checked in under that name, which gives me a very strong indication that she was checked in there. What, ordering room service and watching pay-per-view under the name?

We've been given one name. I don't know if it's correct or not. Shankwilla Bronx. Is that real? Is that what she was doing while people were scouring the highways and the woods and the ravines for her and some tot boy? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Savannah Sapp, multimedia journalist, reporter, WAFF48 in Bama. You can find her on Twitter at Savannah Sapp, S-A-P-P. Savannah, what in the hay?

If this girl is snugged up in a king-size bed with A.C. on low, ordering room service and watching pay-per-view while everyone is tearing their hair out trying to find her. I'm going to do a backflip. A backflip, Savannah Sapp. What do we know? It's honestly confusing, to say the least. You know, her statement that was written to an attorney and given to police through the attorney claims that she was not at a hotel but you have all of these people who are commenting against that and you have screenshots of you know family members and friends of hers texting each other saying yes she was absolutely at a red roof in um you know it's again it's confusing to say the least. And if she was holed up at a Red Roof Inn while, you know, hundreds of thousands of people are wondering where she is, if she's even alive. I think that says a lot about the testament of her character.

Well, of course, you can't go to jail for telling a lie unless you're under oath. And I was just pointing out this morning, about 30 minutes ago. Correct me if I'm wrong. Shellnut with me. James Shellnut, high profile lawyer out of this jurisdiction in Alabama with the Shellnut law firm. But listen to this. Twenty seven years. Metro major case as a cop, including SWAT.

That's not easy. Former prosecutor, he actually prosecuted false report cases. You know what? I had so many felonies coming out of my ears. I didn't even bother with the lies and the false reports, Shelnut, but I'm glad to know that I've got an expert that did do it. You know what that reminds me of, Shalna? DUI cases. I never handled straight out DUI cases. By the time I got them, somebody was dead. It was a habitual violator where you have five or more DUIs. There had been a vehicular homicide. That's when I would get a DUI. I wouldn't get a flat out plain old misdemeanor DUI. And you know what? There's an art to proving a DUI. You've got to know all the ins and outs of blood alcohol, the rights, whether you take a breathalyzer or don't

take a breathalyzer. I mean, it's actually very complicated to get all those hoops. And defendants can win if the prosecutor doesn't know all the ins and outs of prosecuting a DUI. Same thing with a false report. Isn't it true, Shelnut, that at the bottom of every police report, there are words to the effect, I swear and attest under penalty of perjury, that all the information that I have given is true. Isn't that at the bottom of every police report form? Oh, it absolutely is. And it's because you are about to alert law enforcement to a situation that you know that they are going to spend time and resources investigating. And it gives you an opportunity to think twice about what you just said. It's perjury. Perjury is a crime. Now, I want to point out that Carly Russell is being handled with kid gloves.

Other people in her situation have gone to jail for this. Think about Jussie Smollett, Sherry Papini, Jennifer Wilbanks, the so-called runaway bride, Chloe Stein. But, you know, another thing when it comes to those cases, those people always had a culprit. Carly Russell has a white guy with orange hair and a bald spot and a woman she never saw and a baby crying in the background that fed her cheese its and played with her hair. The woman said that she said about the woman. That's part of her story. Smollett blamed, didn't he say white guys wearing MAGA hats?

Okay, well, it turned out to be the two Osindoro brothers, his friends. Let's see. Sherry Papini blamed two unidentified Hispanic women, and she proceeded to starve and brand herself and beat herself up and snug up with her boyfriend for, I forgot how many weeks, and showed up, much like Carly Russell, on foot on Thanksgiving Day. Let's see, where am I? There's some, Will Banks, Jennifer Will Banks, the runaway bride. She blamed, I guess, basically a group of Hispanic males that kidnapped her, assaulted her on the eve of her wedding. And then we've got Chloe Stein. She didn't want her

family to know she wasn't going to graduate from college, so she faked an abduction. Who did she blame, Sidney? You've got to blame somebody, the evil person that is responsible for your dilemma. And in this case, Carly Russell is blaming, again, a white guy with orange hair. So let me understand this. To Mike Hadsall joining us, president and founder of Peace River Canine Search and Rescue at prsar.org. How much money would a search like this first describe the search? Because they really pulled out all the stops. What all was done to find Carly Mike Hadsall?

They're going to pull every resource they can get on the resource list in the area into that into that search they can get because this is a high probability search meaning when you have an abduction or you have a predatory abduction and that person is missing or there's a child involved the survivability rate of the victim is less than six hours so we have a time clock where we're trying to get the victim before the perpetrator either traffics them out of the area or kills them. And so all hands are on deck at this point. Everybody's coming in. So minimum cost on this is going to start at a half a million dollars and go up because of all the resources that are there. When I was watching the video on TV, I saw this line of

law enforcement vehicles that just went on and on and on. And you've got helicopters overhead. You've got people coming in on overtime. They're calling everybody in that's off. And they're pounding the ground. They're going to all the hotels in the area, all the stores in the area. They're canvassing the entire area. That takes law enforcement personnel. And everybody's there. Everybody's out. And so it's very, very expensive for these types of searches. Guys, we're talking about Carly Russell, who, as it turns out, is a pretty good liar.

Karen Stark joining me, renowned psychologist out of Manhattan, trauma and crimes expert. You can find her at KarenStark.com. That's Karen with a C. Karen, thank you for being with us. You know, many people are saying, oh, we should feel sorry for her. I do, that she would have to go to this length to try to get attention. And if she is having some sort of dilemma or depression or sadness, that is not a legal defense. And I want to point out to you, Karen Stark, before you answer, she may be crazy like a fox because she outwitted everybody, her family, her boyfriend that stuck by her, police, searchers, people that donated nearly 70 grand to help find her. So I wouldn't call that crazy, Karen Stark.

Well, it's not legally crazy like you said, Nancy, because she does know the difference between right and wrong. That seems really clear to me because she was able to plot everything out, come up with this elaborate story, then show up. I mean, she really, when you listen to her, though, you can see that there's something wrong. She does have some kind of psychopathology because she's making this elaborate story up. And it's really so rich in detail. She's a victim.

And the thing about being a victim, I mean, when you look at her texts from before and the things that she said, they were inconsistent. They were really very self-pitying. And here she is now coming up with a story where everyone is going to look first for a baby and then for her. So there is pathology there. But does she know the difference between right and wrong? Should we hold her responsible? That part, I think, legally, yes, absolutely. Guys, take a listen to our cut to our friends at Fox 10.

What happened to Carly Russell? Hoover PD says on Thursday, Russell called 911, claiming she saw a little boy walking on the side of I-459 in a diaper. It was a toddler, three, four year old wearing a white t-shirt and a diaper. According to police, Carly then called a relative to tell them she was going to get out and check on the baby. The relative says she heard Carly scream and then nothing but sounds from the interstate. So I want you to take into account the level of detail in her 911 call, but also she said the same lie to her own family. Let's cut three, Fox 10.

Just be advised, her vehicle is unlocked, running. All her personal belongings you can set for her phone. When police got there there carly was gone her mercedes still running friends family and strangers on the internet did their part to find her and then perhaps a clue saturday night montgomery highway at the red roof and family members at this location saying they received a call from the female that's missing carly russell family members say they showed up to knock on doors and find her, but she wasn't there. Police have used every synonym for a lie.

They're saying things like, we can't corroborate, we can't confirm, no evidence of, so forth and so on, ad nauseum. But what it boils down to is this woman lied, sent police and volunteers on a wild goose chase to the tune of at least a quarter of a million dollars while we think she was shacked up somewhere enjoying the attention vicariously that she was receiving. With me again, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. With me, Lee Reber, mobile device forensic expert, CEO of Oxygen Forensics, Inc., and author of Mobile Forensics Investigations. Also host of podcast, Forensic Happy Hour. Lee, I believe, since her cell phone was left behind, she may have had another phone. So how do we go about tracking what she was doing in order to make a case of perjury? Well, you know, it always comes down to, right, is your digital life.

If you look at all the cases where it turns out that they have been lying, it comes down to, you know, law enforcement just looking at that digital life. And the interesting thing about this is in Hoover, Alabama, is NCFI, which is the National Computer Forensic Institute, one of the best places to go to learn how to collect digital data. So it's probably the wrong place if you're going to be lying over your social media, if you're going to be utilizing your phone or if you have another phone, because quite honestly, they're going to be able to review your digital life.

They're going to find and locate you if you're using another device, if you're just in the area. So again, trying to utilize social media, even prior to this, they had a timeline. Once they had that timeline, I'm sure that they, as soon as that came out, they had the information that she was not telling the truth. Not telling the truth. I guess that's one way of putting it. Guys, it's happened many times before, but I believe in this case, we may actually see charges. Take a listen to our friends at WVTM and Cut59B Brother.

Eric Guster says he worries this case could affect future missing persons cases. It's going to be much more difficult for African-American women to be believed. And it may actually decrease the number of actual reports of things because people are already afraid that they won't be believed. Augusta says the police chief outlined three crimes that they believe Carly has committed. That's theft, lying to authorities and filing a false police report. He says he is shocked that Carly has not been arrested on those charges. I'm stunned. We all remember the case of Jesse Smollett. Take a listen to this.

He is like a star. He works on the show. Police body camera video shows the moment officers first arrived at Jesse Smollett's apartment after the actor claimed he'd been attacked. Smollett still has what appears to be a noose around his neck. Do you want to take it off or anything? I do. I just want to talk to the scene. Smollett told police he was assaulted by two masked men, yelling racist and homophobic slurs.

Police, please, you want me? Report, please, you want me? For more than three weeks, at least 24 detectives searched for the two men and investigated Smollett's claims. Guys, we're talking about Jussie Smollett. He ended up paying about $120,000 of restitution. He got 150 days behind bars for filing a false report.

To Cheryl McCollum, what exactly went into the search for Carly Russell? They had air, helicopter, land. They had people on foot. They had canines. They had, you know, her cell phone being looked at. They were interviewing family, friends, and coworkers. They pulled everybody off, you you know having days off this was a full court press every available person including citizens that came to volunteer nancy she had the fbi

the secret service hoover police alabama state police she had you and Crime Online. She had the Today Show. Think of the resources that were given to her and every homicide, true missing person, child molestation, aggravated assault, domestic violence. They were all put on hold to search for her because they believed time was of the essence. But I want to say something very clearly she didn't fool everybody because you and I were talking Saturday and Sunday we knew it was bogus on day one because it didn't add up I mean the story didn't make any sense how many times did you and I look at that video scouring it blowing it up playing it in slow-mo. There was no boy walking along the side of the interstate.

That was all a big lie. And let me tell you what Judge Smollett got. Take a listen to our Cut 44 from the Today Show. Judge James Lynn sentencing Smollett to 30 months felony probation, including that jail time, ordering he pay more than $120, dollars in restitution to the city of Chicago and pay the maximum fine twenty five thousand dollars you've turned your life upside down by your misconduct and shenanigans you've destroyed your life as you knew it as a defiant Smollett was taken into custody last night his family

blasting the judge's decision. He's the reason why folks aren't gonna report hate crimes. They're the reason why folks aren't gonna report hate crimes. No Smollett, you're the problem, not everybody else. And the same thing here. People giving time, energy, blood, sweat and tears to find Carly Russell, when she's obviously propped up somewhere having takeout, watching the news about her own disappearance

and then of course there's Jennifer Wilbanks the so-called runaway bride now this wedding was a big shindig in high society Atlanta I mean a lot of money tens of thousands of dollars shelled out for a big wedding and poof, the bride disappears. She gets, quote, kidnapped. Take a listen to our cut 47, her 911 call. I don't know. What color of hair did he have? Black. Was it long or short? Short. Did he have any facial hair? No. What color shirt did I get with you when I saw him? He had on a maroon jacket and I don't know what color shirt under it.

What color were his pants? Blue jeans. And what kind of vehicle was he driving? It was a blue van, like a work van. Was it a conversion van or a small minivan? It wasn't a minivan, it was like a painter work van. Was it a conversion van or a small minivan? It wasn't a minivan. It was like a painter work van. What direction did they leave in?

I have no idea. I don't even know where I am. Dear Lord in heaven, Shelnut, do you hear that? It sounds like Carly Russell and her elaborate lie about this little barefoot boy wearing a diaper that she's trying desperately to

save yet not getting out of her car. Did you hear that? Hispanic males, short hair, no facial hair, a maroon jacket, blue jeans, a blue van, but no, not a conversion or minivan. It was a paintwork van. I mean, this woman had so many details i mean was she just running this like a movie in her head yeah i don't know you know when you start looking at the stories that people tell about what happened to them one of the things that you focus on is their ability to recall selective details details that benefit them but they don't recall details that may put a hole in their story or that may bring things into question. And that's exactly what you have here. It's what you have in Carly

Russell's case. And, you know, that's a major tip off for investigators. You know, Cheryl, I'm surprised you could keep all those facts straight, but she did. The level of detail is rich. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now, I know that you, Cheryl, and everyone on our panel has heard the name Jussie Smollett. You've heard about Jennifer Wilbanks, the so-called runaway bride. But what about Nicholas Rossi and Nicholas Alvedarian? Take a listen to Our Cut 49 WFLA. Nicholas Alvedarian craved fame and founded as a self-proclaimed crusader for children's rights. He's now locked up in a Scottish prison facing extradition on a rape charge 18 years after he claimed he was sexually assaulted in Bradenton. I paid in blood.

Nicholas Alaverdean talked in dramatic terms with me a decade ago about this federal lawsuit that named several defendants, including the Florida Agency for Healthcare Administration. In 2004, a teenaged Alaverdean was placed in a Bradenton Children's Psychiatric Hospital by Rhode Island's version of DCF. He alleged he was assaulted within the first two weeks of the placement in Florida and abused in other facilities in other states, according to the lawsuit that ended with an undisclosed settlement. He not only faked sex assaults, he faked his disappearance and did a really good job at it as well. And then, of course, we've got the queen of fake disappearances, Sherry Papini. Take a listen to our friend Matt Gutman in our cut 38 from GMA. In November of 2016, Sherry Papini vanished for 22 days. Then on Thanksgiving

morning, she materialized on a highway nearly 150 miles from home. A trucker stopping and calling 911 for her. That call heard for the first time this morning. Hey, what's hurting? You're chained up. She's chained up? Yes, she said she was chained up, beaten, branded, like you see on TV, branding cattle. And it turns out she was holed up with her boyfriend the whole time and actually tortured herself. Hard to believe, but it happened. Karen Stark, that was a lot to swallow, that she would brand herself, break her own tooth, beat herself. But she did, but she did and

she admitted to it. Nancy, think about the amount of attention she was able to get and how exciting that must have been for her. I mean, here she is, she's with her boyfriend and able to get everybody hysterical about what happened to her. And that's narcissism to the highest degree that you could think of. Whoa, slow down. Narcissism. Explain. Well, I mean, that's somebody who is so involved with themselves, so much above the law that they could go to that kind of extent to make sure that

people see them as a victim and worry about them. And that attention just feeds on what's going on. It makes them really feel loved and wanted. What I'm trying to figure out is why there hasn't been an arrest. Savannah Sapp joining us from WAFF 48, Alabama. They are handling her with kid gloves. And I understand sympathy or empathy for her, wondering what drove her to do this. But the reality is, is regardless of her depression or sadness or desire for attention, whatever it may be, she lied in a police report, lied to detectives, and obstructed justice. Those are three charges that have yet to be leveled against her.

What is happening, Savannah? Well, you know, I would certainly, you know, believe that that is under discussion amongst the district attorney's office and her attorneys. You know, just with this statement, quote unquote statement from Carly through her attorney coming through, you know, I think that was an effort to try and alleviate any sort of accusations or charges coming Carly's way. And I also just very quickly, I want to kind of parrot what Cheryl said earlier. You know, she not only took a lot of time from investigators,

but you also have to look at it from a media standpoint. We had all hands on deck sharing Carly's story from all over the state. The whole state of Alabama was sharing her story as well as national headlines. So not that she would be responsible for our coverage, but that's just something else to think of when you're talking about all of the resources that were...

I mean, the moment I heard the story, heard about her disappearance, we immediately put it as the lead at CrimeOnline.com and put it out on social media over and over and over to get attention and get the tip line out there for people to help find Carly. We contacted people in Alabama involved in the search to try to find out what was happening and how we could help. All the while, Cheryl McCollum, there are real victims of real crimes that need our help. I'm not as worried about the media, but I'm more worried about people.

I remember working long nights, weekends, on Easter, on Thanksgiving, on my so-called vacation with my family. Working cases, working, working, working. If I found out later that the victim was lying, I would be so deflated. Nancy, again, the resources that she took from actual victims is astonishing. But I tell you what they need to be concerned about, who's next? If you do not send a message

that we are not going to put up with hoaxes and lies and outright premeditated crime then what are we doing in the DA's office you know I'm just want people to understand what a search like this entails mud rain rain, dirt, long hours, 24-7, looking, worried, dealing with the victim's family who are all distraught. I mean, can you imagine if you thought your child was missing? Mike Hadsall, you've been through it all. Mike Hadsall, president and founder of Peace River Canine Search and Rescue. Explain the blood, sweat, and tears that goes into a search like this. Well, the one factor nobody's talking about is the incredible heat that we're dealing with this year.

And I just came off a search where we were out last night, and the heat injuries were unreal. We lose four or five people going down from heat exhaustion and heat stroke. And the dogs are crapping out after 30 minutes because they're just cooked. And there's a lot of resources that go into having to keep the people up you can get a searcher out there that can work for an hour maybe maybe an hour and a half if you're lucky but then they're down for two hours because they got to cool off and get ready same thing with the dogs you can get them for 20 minutes and then the dog has to rest for 50 minutes because he's got to cool down before he can go

back out so um there's a lot of injuries involved here, snakes and vines and, you know, all kinds of stuff that goes on, and especially for volunteers because, you know, we volunteer, we go out, we help law enforcement on these searches, but we have to cover our own expenses and we have to cover our own health insurance. So if we get injured, it's on us. Then there is chloe stein and i bring her up because she's about the same age as carly russell she faked in her own abduction who did she blame a fake cop i guess she was running out of people to blame i want you to

listen our cut 37 our friends from wtae regarding chloe ste. State police say she created an entire scenario to make people think she had been abducted by someone posing as a police officer on her way home from work Monday night. That set off a massive search effort yesterday afternoon. Police estimated the entire ordeal costing thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars. Stein was found not far from her home yesterday evening.

Police say at first she told them she was abducted, held at gunpoint, and then released. Eventually, court documents say Klein admitted to never being in danger and making the whole thing up. I don't think I really did Sherry Papini justice. Take a listen to Cut 27 GMA. In November of 2016, Sherry Papini vanished for 22 days. Then, on Thanksgiving morning, she materialized on a highway nearly 150 miles from home, a trucker stopping and calling 911 for her. That call heard for the first time this morning. Hey, what's hurting? You're chained up.

She's chained up? I really don't know how Matt Gutman, our friend from ABC, kept a straight face on this. Take a listen to Cut 40. It wasn't until more than three years later that trace DNA found on Papini led to this mystery man, ex-boyfriend James Reyes, who admitted he helped Papini inflict those injuries on herself.

So there's a brand on her. Yeah. There's significant bruising. She did a lot of that while she was here. I mean, she just hit herself with something. I helped her. I mean, I didn't punch her or anything. I just helped her.

She just shot a bug off her leg. The extremes that Papini went to to fake her abduction. But how are we going to figure out the truth here? How are we going to determine what happened to Carly Russell during those days that she was missing and we were all doing somersaults to help find her? You know, to you, Lee Reber, what's the best way of finding out where Carly Russell was during those 49 hours? You know, I think the important thing, if you look at the Patini case, they got a lot of leads from call records, right? They found out that she was calling some friends or some boyfriends. And I think in this

case, too, it might come down to that. I'm sure that they're still going over phone records. We have this whole Red Roof Inn. Who did she call? Did she call someone? Was there additional people? They're going to look at maybe the phones of the family members, the boyfriends. Look at those records to see if any phone numbers from a Red Roof Inn or unknown number had come in. So I think there's still going to be some investigation into that.

And I believe, you know, I would think that they're going to bring someone else in that had knowledge of her disappearance. You know, another issue, Cheryl McCollum joining us from Zone 7 podcast. Cheryl, there have been allegations that she had sent messages while she was missing to the boyfriend. I'm not sure that I believe that because the boyfriend was so distraught. And I think he was genuine trying to find her. If he was getting messages from her, that would indicate he knew she was alive. I don't think that. But we've seen very often people use cell phones as if there's someone else texting,

like potentially her abductor texting family or friends, taunting them about what could happen to her. I think we're going to find a digital trail. I think we're going to find a food trail. I think we're going to find eyewitnesses. I don't think the police are done with anybody. I think they're going to keep interviewingewitnesses. I don't think the police are done with anybody. I think they're going to keep interviewing people. He keeps putting statements out.

The first statement that he ever put out seemed a little self-serving. It was more about him than it was her. Again, I don't think he showed any real fear. He was thanking teammates and telling everybody he's doing this for her and she would do the same. He's put out another statement where he's using words like us, we, and with. So again, the police are going to keep talking to people, whether it's her cousins, her good friends, or her ex-boyfriend. Did she have any help and did anybody know that this was a hoax before she came clean? We wait as justice unfolds. If you have information or think you have information, dial 205-822-5300.

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