Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Missing Carlee Russell: I Lied, But I Don't Want to go to Jail

Episode Date: November 25, 2023

Carlee Russell calls 911, telling the operator that she sees a toddler walking down the side of an Alabama freeway.  When police arrive, there's no toddler and  Russell is gone. Her car, however, is still parked along the highway. The door is open and the car is running. Forty-nine hours later, Russell returns home, telling investigators in a brief interview that she was abducted by a man with orange hair and a woman.   As the investigation continues, police find some “really strange” internet searches in the hours before she vanished, such as the cut-off age for an AMBER Alert.   Now Russell admits via a statement from her lawyer that there was no toddler or abduction. The 26-year-old was found guilty of misdemeanor charges of false reporting to law enforcement and falsely reporting an incident. With the conviction,  Russell's attorneys agreed to "stipulate and appeal" the case. This legal move will transfer the case to circuit court the case will tried again. Joining Nancy Grace today: James Shelnutt – Attorney – The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; 27-year Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective and Former S.W.A.T. Officer; Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm Caryn Stark – Psychologist- Trauma and Crime Expert; Twitter: @carnpsych Sheryl McCollum – Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder; Host of new podcast, “Zone 7;” Twitter: @149zone7 Lee Reiber – Mobile Device Forensic Expert, COO: Oxygen Forensics, Inc., Author: “Mobile Forensic Investigations: A Guide to Evidence Collection, Analysis, and Presentation” Mike Hadsell – President and Founder of Peace River K9 Search and Rescue; Twitter: @K9River Savannah Sapp – Multimedia Journalist and Reporter for WAFF48 in Alabama; Twitter: @Savannah Sapp/Instagram:@savannahsapp.tv/Facebook:SavannahSappWAFF48  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Remember the name Carly Russell? Well, I will never forget it. Carly Russell is the beautiful, young, 25-year-old Alabama woman who is the kidnap hoaxer. Yeah. Did you see where I was going with that? Beautiful, young, 25-year-old kidnap hoaxer.

She had it all going for her. And then all of a sudden she fakes her disappearance, claims that she saw a toddler wandering by the side of the interstate and was pulling over to help him. You can hear the 911 call. It's painful to listen to it because for days we thought someone had kidnapped Carly Russell and was attacking her, raping her, killing her. We didn't know what. The whole time it was a big fat hoax. Ugh. Well, listen to this.

Carly Russell found guilty. And now listen to this. She's still walking free. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. The 25-year-old just convicted on two misdemeanor charges of lying to cops after she claims she saw a child, a toddler, on a highway and then claims she's abducted.

Each one of those charges is a Class A misdemeanor and carries up to one year behind bars. But she didn't go behind bars. She is appealing the ruling to a circuit court. Mm-hmm. court. Well, Carly Russell, 25, snagged all the headlines when she went missing, and her 911 call was played over and over and over on every single news outlet you can imagine, and we certainly covered her disappearance on Crime Stories, hoping to find her. She reported seeing this toddler by the side of the road, and you can hear her getting out of the car, and then all of a sudden, she disappears. She also called her

brother's girlfriend, claiming the same story about the toddler, and screamed into the phone. Then she goes missing for two days, in which her family was in excruciating pain, wondering what had happened to her, only to emerge claiming a man with, quote, orange hair kidnapped her, claiming she'd been kidnapped. And she search ensued. Her now ex-boyfriend sharing all their loving photos of them together here and there, begging, begging for help, complaining that the media wasn't covering her disappearance the way he wanted them to. Well, they broke up, and I guess you can see why. How did this whole thing happen? Question is, where was she for those 49 hours? She said she stayed in Hoover the entire time

and no one helped her. So where was she for those 49 hours? Where did she sleep? Where did she stay? How did she leave that area where she abandoned her red Mercedes sedan. You're hearing our friends at WVTM with me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But for those of you just joining us on the story of 25-year-old Carly Russell, who says that she is only trying to render aid to a tot boy walking along the interstate wearing nothing but a diaper and a shirt. Then she goes missing for 49 hours, throwing her family and the Hoover PD into chaos as they search for her literally around the clock. People donating nearly $70,000 to help find her. One anonymous donor giving $25,000.

They're not getting any of that money back. The boyfriend that defended her to the hilt has now broken up with her and says, quote, I'm disgusted. Well, I second that emotion. Guys, I want you to hear what the chief of the Hoover PD has to say in our Cut 54. Mr. Anthony asked that I read the statement in its entirety, which I will do now. My client has given me permission to make the following statement on her behalf. There was no kidnapping on Thursday, July 9th, 13th, 2023.

My client did not see a baby on the side of the road. My client did not leave the Hoover area when she was identified as a missing person. My client did not have any help in this incident, but this was a single act done by herself. My client was not with anyone or any hotel with anyone from the time she was missing. Okay, let me understand that. That is Chief Nick Dervis from the Hoover PD reading a statement of a lawyer who has been given a statement by Curly Russell. Woman, get out there and apologize yourself for Pete's sake. But you're hearing from Curly Russell through her lawyer, through the chief. But I want you to hear this too. Now you hear the chief saying there was no baby.

There was no one in danger. I was never missing. Now, take a listen to HourCut 7, the 911 on. Child's going to be a white male wearing a white t-shirt and a diaper. 4-2-Copy from the YMCA. 4-4-4-2. RP's advising there's no cars in the area. Looks like the child's been abandoned on the side of the road. 4-2-Copy.

4-1, you still got him on the phone? Negative, but she's saying that she would stand by for police. 42 called our feedback. She's not at their vehicle. Now, remember, police got to the scene in about four minutes after that 911 call. Now, let's listen to Carly Russell in her own words. The detail I was mentioning earlier in our cut 13. 911, where's your emergency? Hi I am on

interstate 459 and there is a kid just walking by their self. Oh hold on hold on where where on 459 are you? Um um I'm right next to the exit exit 10 by the Hoover Met like to get off by the Hoover Met. Okay so you're before that exit? Yes. Okay, and were you headed southbound or northbound? Like toward Tuscaloosa or toward 280? Toward Tuscaloosa. Okay, and was the child on the left or right side? On the right side.

Were they walking northbound or southbound? They're walking towards Tuscaloosa. Walking southbound? Did you hear that detail? Oh, there's more. Listen to Cut 14. How old do they look? Like a toddler.

Maybe like three or four. Did you pull over with them? Are you still with them? Yes. Okay. Are you with the child right now? No, I'm not. I didn't get out of the car.

I can see them, though. Do you mind staying and keeping an eye on them until we get there? Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah. Okay, what kind of car are you in? I'm in a red Mercedes Benz. Is that a sedan or SUV? SUV. I mean, it's a sedan, sorry. Can you put your hazards on for me?

Yeah, they're on. Okay, did you talk to the child at all or did you say anything to them? No. Okay. No. Do they look like they're injured? No, they don't. I love listening to this 911 call because I know every word she says is a big, fat lie.

And can you imagine her in her red Mercedes at night conjuring up this lie in its intricate detail? Listen to more. Cut 15. Are they white, black, Hispanic, or Asian? They're white. Okay. Is it male or female? I think it's a boy, a little boy. White male? Okay. Is he wearing clothes? Yes. Okay. What is he wearing? It's a white t-shirt and it doesn't look like he has any pants on. It looks like a diaper. You don't see any cars anywhere? No, no cars anywhere. Okay. All right. What's your name?

My name is Carly Russell. And you don't see any injuries on the child from where you're at, correct? No, no. But I can't really see them that good. Okay. Try to keep an eye on them for the best that you can because I don't want you to lose track of them. And do they have shoes on? No.

No shoes? Not that I can see. I can't really see that well. All right. I've got them on the way, okay? Just try to stay, keep an eye on them, but officers are on the way, okay? Okay, thanks. Man, she's such a good Samaritan, a good Samaritan that costs the taxpayers, that's us, about $500,000

and costs well-wishers and those who want to help nearly $70,000 in donations. They're not going to get back. With me, an all-star panel. But can I first go to Cheryl McCollum, founder, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, star of Zone 7, a hit new podcast. And you can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. Cheryl, really? He's wearing nothing but a diaper.

And I can't tell if he has on any shoes. And he's a white male, about three or four years old. And I'm so worried. I'm so worried that I'm not getting out of my car, of course. But I am worried. And I'm going to follow him for 600 yards in my car, that six football fields, as I track. Boy, that little tot should be in the Olympics if it can go that fast in nothing but a diaper and barefoot. I mean, the story reeked on day one. That's why I didn't cover it exactly on day one, because it was a lie. It was obviously

a lie. And we have actual people that are really missing being raped, being sex trafficked, being killed. And here's this girl making up a whole big deal because what? I just want somebody to love me? Really? Get online, woman. There are millions of people out there that will love you. But why do this? What about this statement on 911? You make excellent points. But let's talk for a second about what we don't hear her say. We don't hear her say, please hurry. We don't hear her say, help. We don't hear her say, I'm going to go out and try to save him so that he doesn't get into the expressway. She's just in her car chilling and she's only answering questions. She didn't offer the description. She didn't offer that he wasn't hurt. She didn't offer. She was asked those things. The only truthful statement she says in the whole thing is when she

says, yeah, I can't really see. That's the truth. Yeah. Well, now we're just trying to figure out what really happened during those days. And I've got a pretty good idea that she was holed up in something akin to a red roof. And I'll tell you why. why guys take a listen to our cut 16 754 unclassified complaint 1466 montgomery highway at the red roof in the front office per caller family members at this location saying they received a call from the female that's missing carly russell 754 family members are saying they received a call from the female saying she was at this location. 754 and Route. Six of the responding units just spoke with the front desk load.

They said that the family is not being hostile or anything like that, but that there was about six carloads of people that have just shown up over there. Five-four copy. Did the front desk have anybody checked in under that name? Negative. And according to the front desk, the message that the family got did not state which Red Roof Inn. Well, I know this. This is 1466 Montgomery Highway at the Red Roof Inn. That's where the family went. And nobody was checked in under that name, which gives me a very strong indication that she was checked in there. What? Ordering room service and watching pay-per-view under the name? We've been given one name. I don't know if it's correct or not. Shankwilla Bronx. Is that real? Is that what she was doing while people were scouring the highways and the woods and the ravines for her and some tot boy.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome back. I'm Nancy Grace. Carly Russell, the kidnapped faker. She's right up there with Jesse Smollett. Remember Smollett claiming he was attacked? The star of Empire making all that money. Young, attractive, star, a TV star.

Still wasn't happy. Now, this woman makes the same headlines. She was working at a very upscale spa. As a matter of fact, I went to that location to examine where she had been working and where she claimed she saw the tot, the whole thing. short, Hoover Police has revealed the spa therapist incriminating Google search history including things like do you have to pay for an Amber Alert? And research on the movie Taken. Mm-hmm. The way

this whole thing happened. Savannah Sapp, multimedia journalist, reporter, WAFF48 in Bama. You can find her on Twitter at Savannah Sapp, S-A-P-P. Savannah, what in the hay? If this girl is snugged up in a king-size bed with A.C. on low, ordering room service, and watching pay-per-view while everyone is tearing their hair out trying to find her,

I'm going to do a backflip. A backflip, Savannah Sapp. What do we know? It's honestly confusing, to say the least. You know, her statement that was written to an attorney and given to police through the attorney claims that she was not at a hotel. But you have all of these people who are commenting against that. And you have screenshots of, you know, family members and friends of hers texting each other saying, yes, she was absolutely at a Red Roof Inn. You know, it's, again, it's confusing to say the least.

And if she was holed up at a Red Roof Inn while, you know, hundreds of thousands of people are wondering where she is, if she's even alive. I think that says a lot about the testament of her character. Well, of course, you can't go to jail for telling a lie unless you're under oath. And I was just pointing out this morning, about 30 minutes ago, correct me if I'm wrong, Shelnut, with me, James Shelnut, high profile lawyer out of this jurisdiction in Alabama with the Shelnut. With me, James Shelnut, high profile lawyer out of this jurisdiction in Alabama with the Shelnut Law Firm. But listen to this. 27 years, Metro, major case as a cop, including SWAT. That's not easy. Former prosecutor. He actually prosecuted false report

cases. You know what? I had so many felonies coming on my ears. I didn't even bother with the lies and the false reports, Shelnut, but I'm glad to know that I've got an expert that did do it. You know what that reminds me of, Shelnut? DUI cases. I never handled straight out DUI cases. By the time I got them, somebody was dead. It was a habitual violator where you have five or more DUIs. There had been a vehicular homicide. That's when I would get a DUI. I wouldn't get a flat out, plain old misdemeanor DUI. And you know what? There's an art to proving a DUI. You've got to know all the ins and outs of blood alcohol, the rights, whether you take a breathalyzer or don't take a breathalyzer. I mean,

it's actually very complicated to get all those hoops and defendants can win if the prosecutor doesn't know all the ins and outs of prosecuting a DUI. Same thing with a false report. Isn't it true, Shelnut, that at the bottom of every police report, there are words to the effect, I swear and attest, under penalty of perjury, that all the information that I have given is true. Isn't that at the bottom of every police report form? Oh, it absolutely is. And it's because you are about to alert law enforcement to a situation that you know that they are going to spend time and resources investigating. And it gives you an opportunity to think twice about what you just said. It's perjury.

Perjury is a crime. Now, I want to point out that Carly Russell is being handled with kid gloves. Other people in her situation have gone to jail for this. Think about Jussie Smollett, Sherry Papini, Jennifer Wilbanks, a so-called runaway bride, Chloe Stein. But, you know, another thing when it comes to those cases, those people always had a culprit. Carly Russell has a white guy with orange hair and a bald spot and a woman she never saw and a baby crying in the background that fed her cheese it's and played with her hair. The woman said that she said about the woman. That's part of her story. Smollett blamed.

Didn't he say white guys wearing MAGA hats? Okay. Well, it turned out to be the two Osindoro brothers, his friends. Let's see. Sherry Papini blamed two unidentified Hispanic women. And she proceeded to starve and brand herself and beat herself up and snug up with her boyfriend for, I forgot many weeks and showed up much like Carly Russell on foot on Thanksgiving Day. Let's see, where am I? There's some Will Banks, Jennifer Will Banks, the runaway bride. She blamed, I guess, basically a group of Hispanic males that kidnapped her,

assaulted her on the eve of her wedding. And then we've got Chloe Stein. She didn't want her family to know she wasn't going to graduate from college. So she faked an abduction. Who did she blame, Sidney? You got to blame somebody, the evil person that is responsible for your dilemma. And in this case, Carly Russell is blaming, again, a white guy with orange hair. So let me understand this. To Mike Hadsall joining us, president and founder of Peace River Canine Search and Rescue at PRSAR.org. How much money would a search like this first describe the search? Because they really pulled out all the stops.

What all was done to find Carly Mike Hadsall? They're going to pull every resource they can get on the resource list in the area into that into that search they can get because this is a high probability search meaning when you have an abduction or you have a predatory abduction and that person is missing or there's a child involved, the survivability rate of the victim is less than six hours. So we have a time clock where we're trying to get to the victim before the perpetrator either traffics them out of the area or kills them. And so all hands are on deck at this point. Everybody's coming in. So minimum cost on this is going to start at a half a million dollars and go up because of all the resources that are there.

When I was watching the video on TV, I saw this line of law enforcement vehicles that just went on and on and on. And you've got helicopters overhead. You've got people coming in on overtime. They're calling everybody in that's off and they're pounding the ground. They're going to all the hotels in the area, all the stores in the area. They're canvassing the entire area. That takes law enforcement personnel and everybody's there. Everybody's out. And so it's very, very expensive for these types of searches. It looks like the kidnapped faker from Alabama, Carly Russell, just a beautiful young girl. Oh, my goodness.

Claims she disappears and was abducted after seeing a tot alongside of the I-459 South area near Hoover High School. Now, this woman, she had everything going for her. Just stunning, vivacious, loving family, this Carly Russell. And then she's thrown it all away by this big hoax. Karen Stark joining me, renowned psychologist out of Manhattan, trauma and crimes expert. You can find her at karenstark.com. That's Karen with a C. Karen, thank you for being with us. You know, many people are saying, oh, we should feel sorry for her.

I do, that she would have to go to this length to try to get attention. And if she is having some sort of a dilemma or depression or sadness, that is not a legal defense. And I want to point out to you, Karen Stark, before you answer, she may be crazy like a fox because she outwitted everybody, her family, her boyfriend that stuck by her, police, searchers, people that donated nearly 70 grand to help find her. So I wouldn't call that crazy, Karen Stark. Well, it's not legally crazy like you said, Nancy, because she does know the difference between right and wrong.

That seems really clear to me because she was able to plot everything out, you know, come up with this elaborate story, then show up. I mean, she really, when you listen to her, though, you can see that there's something wrong. She does have some kind of psychopathology because she's making this elaborate story up. And it's really so rich in detail. She's a victim.

And the thing about being a victim, I mean, when you look at her text from before and the things that she said, they were inconsistent. They were really very self-pitying. And here she is now coming up with a story where everyone is going to look first for a baby and then for her. So there is pathology there. But does she know the difference between right and wrong? Should we hold her responsible? That part, I think, legally, yes, absolutely. Guys, take a listen to our cut to our friends at Fox 10.

What happened to Carly Russell? Hoover PD says on Thursday, Russell called 911 claiming she saw a little boy walking on the side of I-459 in a diaper. It was a toddler, three, four-year-old wearing a white T-shirt and a diaper. According to police, Carly then called a relative to tell them she was going to get out and check on the baby. The relative says she heard Carly scream and then nothing but sounds from the interstate. So I want you to take into account the level of detail in her 911 call, but also she said the same lie to her own family. Let's cut three, Fox 10.

Just be advised, her vehicle is unlocked, running. All her personal belongings you can set for her phone. When police got there, Carly was gone. Her Mercedes still running. Friends, family, and strangers on the internet did their part to find her. And then, perhaps a clue Saturday night. Montgomery Highway at the Red Roots Inn. Family members at this location saying they received a call from the female that's missing, Carly Russell.

Family members say they showed up to knock on doors and find her, but she wasn't there. Police have used every synonym for a lie. They're saying things like, we can't corroborate, we can't confirm, no evidence of, so forth and so on, ad nauseum. But what it boils down to is this woman lied, sent police and volunteers on a wild goose chase to the tune of at least a quarter of a million dollars while we think she was shacked

up somewhere enjoying the attention vicariously that she was receiving. With me again, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. With me, Lee Reber, mobile device forensic expert, CEO of Oxygen Forensics, Inc., and author of Mobile Forensics Investigations. Also host of podcast, Forensic Happy Hour. Lee, I believe, since her cell phone was left behind, she may have had another phone. So how do we go about tracking what she was doing in order to make a case of perjury? Well, you know, what it always comes down to, right, is your digital life. If you look at all the cases where it turns out that they have been lying, it comes down to law enforcement just looking at that digital life.

And the interesting thing about this is in Hoover, Alabama, is NCFI, which is the National Computer Forensic Institute, one of the best places to go to learn how to collect digital data. So it's probably the wrong place. If you're going to be lying over your social media, if you're going to be lying over your social media if you're going to be utilizing your phone or if

you have another phone because quite honestly they're going to be able to review your digital life they're going to find and locate you if you're using another device and you're just in the area again, trying to utilize social media even prior to this, they had that timeline. Once they had that timeline, I'm sure that as soon as that came out, they had the information that she was not telling the truth. Not telling the truth. I guess that's one way of putting it. Guys, it's happened many times before. Take a listen to our friends at WVTM and cut 59B brother. Eric Guster says he worries this case could affect future missing persons cases. It's going to be much more difficult for African-American women to be believed,

and it may actually decrease the number of actual reports of things because people are already afraid that they won't be believed. Augusta says the police chief outlined three crimes that they believe Carly has committed. That's theft, lying to authorities and filing a false police report. We all remember the case of Jesse Smollett. Take a listen to this. Police body camera video shows the moment officers first arrived at Jussie Smollett's apartment after the actor claimed he'd been attacked. Smollett still has what appears to be a noose around his neck. Smollett told police he was assaulted by two masked men yelling racist and homophobic slurs.

For more than three weeks, at least 24 detectives searched for the two men and investigated Smollett's claims. Guys, we're talking about Jussie Smollett. He ended up paying about $120,000 of restitution. He got 150 days behind bars for filing a false report. To Cheryl McCollum, what exactly went into the search for Carly Russell? They had air, helicopter, land. They had people on foot they had canines they had you know her cell phone being looked at they were interviewing family friends and co-workers they pulled everybody off you know having days off this was a full court press every available person including citizens that came to volunteer. Nancy, she had the FBI, the Secret Service, Hoover Police, Alabama State Police.

She had You and Crime Online. She had the Today Show. Think of the resources that were given to her and every homicide, true missing person, child molestation, aggravated assault, domestic violence, they were all put on hold to search for her because they believed time was of the essence. But I want to say something very clearly. She didn't fool everybody because you and I were talking Saturday and Sunday. We knew it was bogus.

On day one, because it didn't add up. I mean, the story didn't make any sense. How many times did you and I look at that video, scouring it, blowing it up, playing it in slow-mo? There was no boy walking along the side of the interstate. That was all a big lie. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I know Carly Russell's parents must be mortified. They're upstanding. Her mother's a realtor. Her father is a VP at a bank. They live in a nearly million dollar home, both holding down steady jobs. They never miss a day work. Then up jumps this daughter and fakes a kidnapping. The judge ordering restitution for all the man hours she sucked up while we were all looking for her, specifically police forces

and beyond. But so far, she's managed to dodge jail. Why? It's a complicated legal issue, let me tell you. Following her confession through her lawyer, Emory Anthony, many people assume, well, hey, she confessed. I guess she's going to plead guilty. But surprise, she pled not guilty to the two misdemeanor charges about lying to police, about being kidnapped and seeing a child on the interstate. Well, after her not guilty plea, the judge made a procedural decision to find her guilty based on the stipulation for appeal. Now, what does that mean? You cannot appeal a case unless you've been found guilty. If you're found not guilty, then the case is over. So this lawyer, Emory Anthony, announces he's going to appeal the case. So therefore the judge says, okay, I adjudicate you guilty. Have at it. So what the lawyer says is we stipulated an appeal. And the reasoning is that the state's asking for jail time and we disagree with that. So we're going to appeal this to the Bessemer Circuit Court. That is one court higher

than the judge. The judge also recommended Russell spend one year in jail, six months on each charge and pay $1,700 in fines. The city of Hoover also requesting around $18,000 in restitution. Now, the defense lawyer found the fines to be fair, but he drew the line at jail time. He doesn't think that's fair. So they're taking this up on appeal. What does that mean? It looks like there may be a jury trial ahead of us. Karen Stark, narcissism, explain. Well, I mean, that's somebody who is so involved with themselves, so much above the law that they could go to that kind of extent to make sure that people see them as a victim and worry about them. And that attention to speed on what's going on, it makes them really feel loved and wanted. I mean, the moment I heard the story, heard about her disappearance, we immediately put it as the lead at CrimeOnline.com and put it out on social media over and over and over to get attention and get the tip line out

there for people to help find Carly. We contacted people in Alabama involved in the search to try to find out what was happening and how we could help. All the while, Cheryl McCollum, there are real victims of real crimes that need our help. I'm not as worried about the media, but I'm more worried about people. I remember working long nights, weekends, on Easter, on Thanksgiving, on my so-called vacation with my family, working cases, working, working, working. If I found out later that the victim was lying, I would be so deflated. Nancy, again, the resources that she took from actual victims is astonishing. But I tell you what they need to be concerned about. Who's next? If you do not send a message that we are not going to put up with hoaxes and lies and outright premeditated crime,

then what are we doing in the DA's office? You know, I just want people to understand what a search like this entails. Mud, rain, dirt, long hours, 24-7, looking, worried, dealing with the victim's family who are all distraught. I mean, can you imagine if you thought your child was missing? Mike Hadsall, you've been through it all. Mike Hadsall, president, founder of Peace River Canine Search and Rescue. Explain the blood, sweat and tears that goes into a search like this. Well, the one factor nobody's talking about is the incredible heat that we're dealing with this year. And I just came off a search where we were out last night and the heat injuries were unreal we lose four or

five people going down from heat exhaustion and heat stroke and and the dogs are crapping out after 30 minutes because they're just cooked um and there's a lot of resources that go into having to keep the people up you can get a searcher out there that can work for an hour maybe uh maybe an hour and a half if you're lucky but then they're down for two hours because they got to cool off and get ready. Same thing with the dogs. You can get them for 20 minutes and then the dog has to rest for 50 minutes because he's got to cool down before he can go back out. So there's a lot of injuries involved here, snakes and vines and, you know, all kinds

of stuff that goes on that, and especially for volunteers, because, you know, we volunteer, we go out, we help law enforcement on these searches. But we have to cover our own expenses and we have to cover our own health insurance. So if we get injured, it's on us. Then there is Chloe Stein. And I bring her up because she's about the same age as Carly Russell. She faked her own abduction. Who did she blame?

A fake cop. I guess she was running out of people to blame. I want you to take a listen to our cut 37, our friends from WTAE regarding Chloe Stein. State police say she created an entire scenario to make people think she had been abducted by someone posing as a police officer on her way home from work Monday night. That set off a massive search effort yesterday afternoon. Police estimated the entire ordeal costing thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars. Stein was found not far from her home yesterday evening. Police say at first she told them she was abducted, held at gunpoint, and then released.

Eventually, court documents say Klein admitted to never being in danger and making the whole thing up. I don't think I really did Sherry Papini justice. Take a listen to Cut 27 GMA. ever being in danger and making the whole thing up. I don't think I really did Sherry Papini justice. Take a listen to Cut 27 GMA. In November of 2016, Sherry Papini vanished for 22 days. Then on Thanksgiving morning, she materialized on a highway nearly 150 miles from home. A trucker stopping and calling 911 for her. That call heard for the first time this morning. Hey, what's hurting?

You're chained up. She's chained up? I really don't know how Matt Gutman, our friend from ABC, kept a straight face on this. Take a listen to Cut 40. It wasn't until more than three years later that trace DNA found on Papini led to this mystery man, ex-boyfriend James Reyes, who admitted he helped Papini inflict those injuries on herself. So there's a brand on her. Yeah.

There's significant bruising. She did a lot of that while she was here. I mean, she just hit herself with something. I helped her. I mean, I didn't punch her or anything. How'd you help her? She just shot a bug off her leg. The extremes that Papini went to, to fake her abduction. But how are we going to figure out the truth here? How are we going to determine

what happened to Carly Russell during those days that she was missing and we were all doing somersaults to help find her. You know, to you, Lee Reber, what's the best way of finding out where Carly Russell was during those 49 hours? You know, I think the important thing, if you look at the Petini case, they got a lot of the leads from call records. Right. They found out that she was calling some friends or some boyfriends. And I think in this case too, it might come down to this. I'm sure that they're still going over phone records. We have this whole red, red roof in who did she call? You know, did she call someone? Was there additional people?

They're going to look at them, either the phones or the family members or boyfriends. I look at those records to see if any phone numbers from a Red Roof Inn or unknown number had come in. So I think I think there's still going to be some investigation into that. And I believe, you know, I would think that they're going to bring someone else in that had knowledge of her disappearance. You know, another issue, Cheryl McCollum joining us from Zone 7 podcast. Cheryl, there have been allegations that she had sent messages while she was missing to the boyfriend. I'm not sure that I believe that because the boyfriend was so distraught.

And I think he was genuine trying to find her. He was getting messages from her that would indicate he knew she was alive. I don't think that. But we've seen very often people use cell phones. Right. As if there's someone else texting, like potentially her abductor texting family or friends, taunting them about what could happen to her. I think we're going to find a digital trail. I think we're going to find a food trail. And I think we're going to find eyewitnesses. I don't think the police are done with anybody.

I think they're going to keep interviewing people. He keeps putting statements out. The first statement that he ever put out seemed a little self-serving. It was more about him than it was her. Again, I don't think he showed any real fear. He was thanking teammates and telling everybody he's doing this for her and she would do the same. He's put out another statement

where he's using words like us, we, and with. So again, the police are gonna keep talking to people, whether it's her cousins, her good friends, or her ex-boyfriend. Did she have any help? And did anybody know that this was a hoax before she came clean? Carly Russell, the 25-year-old just convicted on two misdemeanor charges of lying to cops after she claims she saw a child, a toddler, on a highway and then claims she's abducted.

She didn't go behind bars. She is appealing the ruling to a circuit court. But for right now, the kidnapped faker is still walking free. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.