Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 'Missing' Carlee Russell Leaves Trail of Lost TP, Cheez-It, Trail Mix, and Orange-headed Perp

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

Carlee Russell calls 911, telling the operator that she sees a toddler walking down the side of an Alabama freeway. When police arrive, there's no toddler and  Russell is gone. Her car, however,  is still parked along the highway. The door is open and the car is running. Forty hours later, Russell returns home, telling investigators in a brief interview that she was abducted by a man with orange hair and a woman.   As the investigation continued, police find some “really strange” internet searches in the hours before she vanished, such as the cutoff age for an AMBER Alert.   Joining Nancy Grace Today: James Shelnutt – Attorney – The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; 27-year Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective and Former S.W.A.T. Officer; Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm  Dr. Shari Schwartz – Forensic Psychologist (specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy); Twitter: @TrialDoc; Author: “Criminal Behavior” and “Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology”  Sheryl McCollum – Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder; Host of the new podcast, “Zone 7;” Twitter: @ColdCaseTips  Mike Hadsell - President and Founder of Peace River K9 Search and Rescue,  Lee Reiber – Mobile Device Forensic Expert, CEO: Oxygen Forensics, Inc., Author: “Mobile Forensic Investigations: A Guide to Evidence Collection, Analysis, and Presentation;” Podcast: “Forensic Happy Hour” Savannah Sapp - Multimedia Journalist and Reporter for WAFF48 in Alabama; Twitter: @Savannah Sapp/Instagram:@savannahsapp.tv/Facebook:SavannahSappWAFF48  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. An orange-haired man with a bald spot. Cheez-Its. Toilet paper? The Red Roof Inn? What happened in the case of Carly

Russell? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Let's start at the get-go with the 911 call. Take a listen to our cut seven. 442 for 71.

42. 71 is going to be 459 South, mile marker 10. It's going to be a child walking on the, three or four-year-old child walking on the side of the interstate next to her. RP is going to be close by in a red Mercedes sedan with the hazards on. Child is going to be a white male wearing a white t-shirt and a diaper. 42 copy from the YMCA. And 4. 442. RV's advising there's no cars in the area. Looks like the child's been abandoned on the side of the road. 42 copy. 4-1, you still

got a little phone. Negative, but she's saying that she would stand by for police 42 call rp back she's not at their vehicle if you're willing to take the time and the energy and you dissect 911 calls you learn so much take a listen to the rest of that call 10-4 cla red in color to nicole russell out of birmingham 10-11 i'm around on 71 as-4, we're not getting a female to answer. 42, I copy. 10-4, that's the RP. We're trying to call her back. She's not answering. I'm proud to intercept as well. You can't give me a description on the child.

Was they southbound, walking southbound? 10-4, southbound, walking southbound. It was a toddler, 3-4 year old, wearing a white t-shirt and a diaper. RP arrived in a red Mercedescedes and on with the rp description is going to be copy thank you 42 just be advised her vehicle is unlocked running all her personal belongings except for her phone all personal belongings except for the phone in the

car the car unlocked and still running that is what police confronted when they go to answer a 911 call made by carly russell reporting a toddler walking unattended alone along the side of a freeway listen our friends abc 3340 police need help finding a missing 25-year-old woman. Carlithia Russell, who goes by Carly, police say around 9 30 Thursday night, Russell called 911 stating she saw a toddler walking along I-459. Then after calling 911, Russell stopped to check on the child and called a family member to report the same details. The family member lost contact with her. Officers found Russell's vehicle and some of her belongings but were unable to find her or a child. Joining me in the all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now but first to Savannah Sapp, multimedia

journalist, reporter, WAFF48 Alabama. Savannah, thank you for being with us and not only did she make a 911 call she also contacted her family telling them she had seen this toddler walking along the side of a freeway and then you hear a commotion shuffling on the other end of the phone and she screams and that's the end of the call do I have that right yes that's that's pretty much what has been reported by her family and as well as the Hoover Police Department. Now explain to me, Hoover is a little bit outside of Birmingham, is that correct? Yes, it's very close to the Birmingham metropolitan area. Very close to the Birmingham metropolitan area. And what can you tell me about this stretch of road where Carly Russell says she sees a tot boy walking along in a t-shirt and a dipe? Well, first thing I can tell you is that Birmingham, much like where I live in Huntsville, is mostly interstate roads.

Busy, busy roads. Thousands of cars on it every single day. So the idea of her pulling over on the shoulder of the interstate to check on a toddler is strange and wild to everyone. Because you think of interstate, you think of busy stretch of highway where most accidents tend to happen. So you think of a toddler on the side of the road, most people would be worried and concerned as well. I don't know if everyone would stop to check, especially at night like that, but most people would be concerned.

Joining me from Alabama is James Shelnut, high-profile lawyer, former SWAT officer, and with Metro Major Case. He's at shellnutlawfirm.com. James, this is your neck of the woods. You know, I can't go anywhere without a camera watching me and that's fine with me. Fine. Look, I'd be mad if you didn't. But wouldn't cameras have revealed a toddler walking along the side of the road? Well know they would possibly have you know these cameras um only have a certain amount of resolution this was at night there was a lot of other things moving so what they reveal more than anything is the actual roadway itself which is what their intended purpose is so there's not always the best of views off the roadway but if that toddler was

close to the roadway then yeah you would think that that toddler would be on the video. You know what? We're so used to a murder occurring, the investigation occurring, and the jury verdict in one hour on TV. That's what people think really happens. It's not like that. Yeah, there may be video, but you may not be able to see a thing. If it's raining or it's bad weather it's not like on tv and in the movies hey guys i want you to now hear

front in her own words carly russell calling 9-1-1 an hour cut 10 9-1-1 where's your emergency? Hi, I am on Interstate 459, and there is a kid just walking by their cell. Oh, hold on, hold on. Where on 459 are you? I'm right next to the exit 10 by the Hoover Met, like to get off by the Hoover Met. Okay, so you're before that exit? Yes. Okay, and were you headed southbound or northbound? Like toward Tuscaloosa or toward 280? Toward Tuscaloosa. Okay, and was the child on the left or right side? On the right side.

Were they walking northbound or southbound? They're walking towards Tuscaloosa. Walking southbound? Okay, Cheryl McCollum joining me, founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, star of a hit series, Zone 7, and forensics expert. She's clearly in her right mind. She's giving very specific location information regarding the 459. Very clear.

She starts with a salutation. Hi. There's no fear. There's no urgency. There's no concern. she's not getting to the baby first most people when there's a bad accident or a fire something they're going to run to to go help they holler to somebody else to call 9-1-1 she's literally supposedly watching a baby walk down an expressway at any any minute, he could be hit by a

car, he could fall off into a ravine, and she's just sitting in her car, chilling, talking to 911, waiting for them to ask her the next question, and not saying, y'all need to get out here, I've got to get out of the car and go get this child. Take a listen to more of that 911 call. How old did they look? Like a toddler. Like, maybe like three or four. Did you pull over with them? Are you still with them? Yes. Okay, are you with the child right now?

No, I'm not. I didn't get out of the car. I'm just, I can see them though. Can you, do you mind staying and keeping an eye on them until we get there? Yeah. Yeah, sure, yeah. Okay, what kind of car are you in? I'm in a red Mercedes-Benz.

Is that a sedan or SUV? SUV. I mean, it's a sedan, sorry. Can you put your hazards on for me? Yeah, they're on. Okay. Did you talk to the child at all, or did you say anything to them? No.

Okay. No. Do they look like they're injured? No, they don't. Okay, she is clearly in her right mind and coherent and more listen to carly russell in her own words are they white black hispanic or asian they're white okay is the male or female i think it's a boy a little boy right now okay is he wearing clothes yes okay what is he wearing um it's a white t-shirt and it doesn't look like he has any pants on it looks like a diaper and you don't see any cars anywhere no no cars anywhere okay all right what's your name my name is carly russell

and you don't see any injuries on the child from where you're at correct no no but i can't really see them that good okay try to keep an eye on them for the best we can because i don't want you to lose track of them and do they have shoes on no not that i can see i can't because I don't want you to lose track of them. And do they have shoes on? No. Not that I can see. I can't really see that. All right. I've got them on the way. Okay. Just try to stay, keep an eye on them, but the officers are on the way. Okay. Okay. Thanks. crime stories with nancy grace all right what's your name my name is carly russell and you don't see any injuries on the child from where you're at correct no no but i can't really see them that good okay try to keep an eye on them for the best we can because i don't want you to lose track of them and do they have shoes on no not that I can

see I can't really see that one all right I've got them on the way okay just try to stay keep an eye on them but the officers are on the way okay okay thanks straight back out to Savannah Sapp joining us WAFF48 in Bama Savannah again thank you for being with us. Police get there really quickly, but when they get there, they see Carly's red Mercedes, but they don't. That's Carly Russell. They don't see Carly, and the vehicle is still running. No sign of the toddler. What do police find when they get there, Savannah? Well, they find um her purse it had been left in the passenger seat along with

the wig that she had either had on that day or just had with her she planned to wear um everything that you know what it was expected to be on her person except for her phone was found in that red mercedes on the side of the road. Everything except the phone is found. Guys, we're talking about a woman who calls reporting a toddler on the side of the road, but when police get there, there's nothing there. Police immediately begin the search. Could you tell me, let me go to go to mike hatsell joining us president and founder

of peace river canine search and rescue you can find him at psar.org mike given that situation what do police or what should police do immediately to find not only this woman carly russell but the baby well once they get there and they arrive of course they're going to get as many officers as immediately to find not only this woman, Carly Russell, but the baby. Well, once they get there and they arrive, of course, they're going to get as many officers as they can. This is a high priority call when it comes in like this. We have children in danger. We have a woman that's calling. They're by the side of the road. Every law enforcement officer in that area is going to take that call and be there as quickly as they can. They're going to start from the off ramp and work their way back up.

They're going to try to find the kids and they're going to try to find her. And then they're going to bring in all the resources they can at this point because the phone is outside and she's not with the phone. And there's no one to be found. Of course, the air assets will come in the helicopters and then the canine units will come in and they'll start tracking to see if they can locate anything in that area. Mike Hassell joining us from Peace River Canine and Search and Rescue. Well, Mike, you're exactly correct. Take a listen to our cut 26. This is Chief Dervis with the Hoover PD. Hoover Police deployed all available assets from the point in the search for Carly. Additional resources were called in to include our own drone unit, crime scene investigators, numerous police deployed all available assets from the point in search for Carly. Additional resources were called in to include our own drone unit, crime scene investigators, numerous detectives

responded to the scene. Throughout the day Friday, officers from surrounded local and federal agencies assisted Hoover police in the search for Carly Russell. Officers returned to the scene on 4-59 to conduct a thorough line search for evidence. K-9 teams from the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department responded to check for any sign of Carly, the child that she claimed to see, and anything else that could be considered evidence in this case. Those searches all turned up empty. Also, we learn that the police immediately call,

get in touch with T-Mobile to ping the phone in real time. Joining me, Lee Reber, mobile device forensic expert, CEO, Oxygen Forensics, Inc., author of Mobile Forensic Investigations and host of, I love this name, Forensic Happy Hour. Lee, thanks for being with us. So, we're hearing that LA law enforcement got an immediate ping on Carly Russell's phone, or at least tried to. How does that work? Yeah, sure. Generally, the telco company is going to send a signal to the device itself with a response.

And so with the phones now with either GPS enables or just a standard cell signal. If it's just a cell signal, they can utilize it to triangulate. But with a GPS, nowadays they can get within a meter with a precise location for that device. Guys, the

Hoover PD and beyond pulling out all the stops, but then they do something that I do all the time. Take a listen to our cut 24. Data from Carly's phone, including her Life360 app, shows that she traveled approximately 600 yards in her vehicle while she was on the phone with 911, stating that she was following a child. 600 yards. That is six football fields

straight. 600 yards. Okay, how many times during the day and the night is my family subjected to the ding, ding, ding, ding, where I'm looking for the iPad or the cell phone? Any way I can find it and that's what they did here Cheryl McCollum Life360 can find you if you're in another country they can find you of course if you're in another state but they do it here and they see that it goes 600 yards six football fields straight what does that tell you Cheryl McCollum there was no way a three or four year old is walking 600 yards. They're not going to walk 600 football fields while you're just, again, following behind them in a car, not showing care and concern. The other thing that stuck out for law enforcement, because it did for me me day one she's the only person on this highway

that saw this child that's the only 9-1-1 call they got yeah you know Cheryl McCollum I'm I call I'm a frequent 9-1-1 caller and very often the dispatch will say we've already got a car on the way we've gotten another call 50 people had to pass that child during that 600 yard stroll. Nobody else called, especially, then here's the other thing. She's already, she stated she already had her hazards on. There is no way in the dark, going 70 miles an hour, that you saw a baby up ahead with enough time to stop and pull over behind that child. Yeah, I don't know about that, but everything else you said I agree with. And the moment we heard that, everybody skidded to an abrupt halt. But I could rationalize and explain it, but here's one thing I can't explain away.

The Cheez-Its. Take a listen to our cut for ABC 3340. Hoover Police's new information is raising serious questions about the details of Carly Russell's disappearance. Police now say that they have not found any evidence of a toddler walking down the interstate, as we are told Carly reported in her 911 call and subsequent call to a family member. Police also tell us that Carly bought snacks at the Target on Highway 280 after leaving work. That food wasn't found in her car or with her cell phone and wig, which bought snacks at the Target on Highway 280 after leaving work. That food wasn't

found in her car or with her cell phone and wig, which were discovered at the scene. Okay, let's just get right down to it. Savannah Sapp, one question. What snacks? I want to know what snacks she got at Target that she took with her chasing this tot. What were the snacks? According to police, she had bought granola bars and cheese crackers or Cheez-Its. Okay, so what happened to them? Where are the snacks she just bought? Now, we also know that after her job, where does she work, Savannah Sapp? Police reports are saying she worked at some spa at the Summit. I'm forgetting the name of it.

What is the summit the summit is a kind of an upscale shopping center in that area lots of different stores high traffic area but she had been working at a spa um in that location i went to go take a look at the summit. It's Woodhouse Day Spa. I wanted to go look at the summit and walked around. There's every posh outlet. It's not outlet. There's stores that you can think of. Little artisan bakeries where like a cupcake will cost seven or eight dollars. That kind of place. That's what we're talking about um it's not like she is walking through a high crime area she works there leaving there goes to a taziki restaurant gets food we think to take home that food is still in the vehicle but the target snacks are not. What else do we know about what she may have had with her?

Take a listen to our Cut 12. On July 13th, at approximately 8.20 p.m., Carly left work from a business at the Summit. Surveillance video from her place of employment shows Carly concealed a dark-colored bathrobe, a roll of toilet paper, and other items belonging to the business prior to her departure.

She ordered food from Tzatziki's at the Colonnade and traveled there. She then traveled to Target on 280, where she purchased some granola bars and Cheez-Its. From there, she remained in the parking lot at that shopping center until 921 p.m. when she drove to I-459. carly communicated on her cell phone with individuals known to her while in her path of travel up to the point of calling 9-1-1 at 9 34 p.m now right there you're hearing again the hoover pd chief nick dervis trying to make sense of what happened to some of the evidence curious dr sherry schwartz joining us forensic psychologist specializing in capital mitigation at panther mitigation.com literally wrote the book of criminal behavior

and where law and psychology intersect dr sherry schwartz why why hoard tp toilet paper, right before you go missing. Well, it sounds to me like you are planning to be away for a while and not near a bathroom that has toilet paper. That is a really strange thing to take with you unless you think you're going to need it because you're going somewhere where there may not be toilet paper. Guys, I'm trying to figure out what other evidence we're going to uncover. I want to talk about clues left behind. Savannah Sapp, what can you tell me about computer searches we believe were made by Carly Russell? This is something that I believe shocked everyone around this case when we heard it from Hoover

PD yesterday during this press conference when they looked at carly's phone records she had made some really questionable google searches she had looked up the movie taken with leah mason she had searched quote do you have to pay for an Amber Alert? She had also searched what the maximum age is for an Amber Alert. All of these searches raise eyebrows and a lot of suspicion for those who have covered the case and those who have, you know, put a lot of effort into trying to find her. Okay, take a listen to our cut 32, the Hoover PD chief. Part of what data includes several Internet searches, and the days leading up to her disappearance that I think are very relevant to this case.

On July 11th at 7.30 a.m., the term, you have to pay for an Amber Alert research. On July 13th at 1.03 103 a.m the day of her disappearance the term how to take money from a register without being caught was searched and that's not all take a listen to more from chief dervis and cut 33. on july 13th at 2 a.m., the day of her disappearance, the term Birmingham Bus Station was searched. On July 13, 2.35 a.m., a search for a one-way bus ticket from Birmingham to Nashville was conducted with a departure date of July 13th at 1210 p.m., a search for the movie Taken, a film about a production, was conducted. There were two searches related to Amber Alerts on a computer at Carly's place of employment, including one regarding the maximum age of an Amber Alert. Okie dokie to Lee Reber and Mike Hadsall. First to Mike Hadsall, president, founder, Peace

River Canine Search and Rescue. Really? Do you have to pay for an AMBER alert? Well, the taxpayers pay for the AMBER alert. Yeah, taxpayers pay for that. That's me. That's us. How much did this search? Do you believe? Just give me a rough estimate. You got drones. You got, of course, there's volunteers out there. The family adamant, screaming at the top of their lungs that the media is not covering her disappearance as much as other disappearances. I mean, it goes on and on. The police are being pilloried. But how much money? Just give me a ballpark with the drones, the searches, the additional man hours, the investigation.

What are we talking about here? Somewhere between $250,000 and $500,000 is my rough guess. Okay, I'm sorry. Could you just slow down and say that? I need to let that just sink in. $250,000 probably minimum to somewhere around half a million dollars. Why?

What possibly could cost $250,000? Well, you've got air assets that are running anywhere from $2,000 to $5,000 an hour to operate. That's their burden rate and what their fixed costs are. And then on top of that, you've got the officers are there, you've got overtime, you've got hazard pay. So they're not only just making their normal salary,

but they're getting extra money as well for the hard work that they're putting in. And then of course, you've got all the other detectives, you've got the state police involved, you've got the FBI involved. There's a lot going on here on this case because according to the situation that we have now, we have two missing kids and a missing girl. So you have three people missing at this point that the state believes are something's happened. And so you've got everybody possible out there. Hey, Ananthius, this is James. It's not just the monetary cost.

I agree with everything he just said, and that's probably a realistic estimate, if not conservative. But there's also other costs. The other costs are collateral damages that are hard to quantify from a money standpoint, which is there are other people out there who have been victims of crime, that these resources have been diverted off of their cases. There is the cost to a community, placing this community in fear. And those are costs that can't be quantified, but they sure do exist. Well, not only that, whenever a jury hears a true scenario, a true crime where someone has been kidnapped, can't you just see some, let me just put it out there,

a-hole defense attorney, technical legal term, arguing, oh, this is just another gone girl. This is just another take and it's all BS. Don't convict my client. I can see it happening. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Cheryl McCollum, are you sitting down? You may need to lay down. The plot of Taken. Liam Neeson, a former government operative, of course, is trying to reconnect with his daughter. His worst fears come true when sex slavers abduct the daughter and her friend after they arrive in Paris for a vacation with just four days until his daughter will be auctioned off into sex slavery,

Liam Neeson must call on every skill he has ever learned in black ops to rescue her. What's gonna come next? Did she watch Gone Girl on Netflix before she disappeared? did she potentially look at the case of Chloe Stein ringing a bell? Take a listen to our Cut 35 KDKA. State police are investigating this young woman, Chloe Stein, who has been missing since last night, 11 p.m. And I just talked to her mother. As you can imagine, she is just distraught, breaking down, just telling me she just wants answers. And right now, state police are trying to do that. They say they got a call this morning from Chloe's boyfriend, who said that he had communicated with her around 11 p.m. last

night, saying that she was being pulled over. Her mom said something was wrong with her headlight. And at that point, the family never heard from her again. Okay, I'm literally jumping out of my skin right there. Couldn't you fast forward that just a tiny bit, Jackie? For Pete's sake, the woman pretended she was kidnapped so she wouldn't have to admit she wasn't going to graduate. She played around, didn't get her hours. Isn't that Chloe? She didn't want her family to know she wasn't going to graduate.

It's graduation day, Saturday. And so she goes missing. Okay. And of course, you know, here's the poster child for fake kidnappings. Sherry Papini, cut 38, our friend, Matt Gutman, GMA. In November of 2016, Sherry Papini, cut 38, our friend Matt Gutman, GMA. In November of 2016, Sherry Papini vanished for 22 days. Then on Thanksgiving morning, she materialized on a highway nearly 150 miles from home, a trucker stopping and calling 911 for her. That call morning. The woman just goes AWOL, leaving her husband and children behind to try to figure out where's mommy and shacks up with her old boyfriend and then actually brands herself, you know, like a cattle, to claim

two Hispanic females. Her words, not mine, abducted her, I guess, to ultimately sell her into sex slavery. Well, that didn't happen. She turned up for turkey lunch on Thanksgiving. Okay, let's go back to our case in chief. I want you to take a listen of what Carly Russell has to say in our cut 28. That poor chief, Nick Dervis, man, he gave it all, spent so much money, and this is what happens. Listen.

Detectives were able to obtain a brief statement from her prior to being treated and released. During the statement, she told detectives that while traveling down the interstate, she saw a baby walking down the side of the road and called 911. She started when she got out of her vehicle to check on the child. A man came out of the trees and mumbled that he was checking on the baby. She claimed that the man then picked her up and she screamed. She stated he then made her go over a fence. She claims he then forced her into a car and the next thing she remembers is being in the

trailer of an 18-wheeler. Okay, I've got to play some more. You have to hear this. Aren't you a little bit curious about a guy with orange hair and a big bald spot? Take a listen to our cut 29. She stated that the male was with a female. However, she never saw the female, only hearing her voice. Take a listen to our cut 29. And more from Chief Jervis. She stated the next day she woke up and was fed cheese crackers by the female. She said the woman also played with her hair but could not remember anything else. At some point,

she was put back in a vehicle she claims was able to escape while it was in the West Hoover area. She told detectives she ran through lots of woods until she came out near her residence. During this interview, detectives noted that Carly had a small injury to her lip and she claimed that her head was hurting. She also had a tear on her shirt. Detectives also noted that she had $107 cash in her right sock. Again, echoes of Sherry Papini, who never saw her two female Hispanic abductors, but only heard their voices. That's convenient when it's time for police to draw a composite picture.

Cheryl McCollum, Cold Case Research Institute director and founder. There are so many holes in that story. I could drive a Mack truck through them. Oh, my Lord. First of all, she never mentions a weapon. She's able to escape multiple times. She says the assailant grabbed her but she never says he also grabbed the baby if he's grabbing her with one arm and the baby with

the other to get somebody over the fence how in the world could she not escape then how in the world does nobody on this highway see any of this happening no scuffle no fight no nothing she again can remember being fed cheese crackers but not whether or not she was sexually assaulted she's able to escape multiple times only to be captured again somehow and she goes from a vehicle to a tractor trailer to some house so when they finally you know don't capture her again for the fourth time lo and behold she's in her own freaking neighborhood it is amazing that she remembers the cheese crackers but not her sex attack but now the family is angry claiming that curly russell is having to deal with quote trauma of people quote just making completely false allegations about her they're angry they're angry i wonder how wonder how the Hoover PD feels. Straight to Dr. Sherry

Schwartz, forensic psychologist. What is happening, Dr. Sherry? Well, I think for the family, you know, they need to believe that this happens because the alternative is they have to believe that Carly just basically had a complete lack of concern or any regret or remorse about their distress, how this would create distress for them. So I think for them, they're invested in, they want to be supportive, they are needing to believe this story. And so it does feel like a personal attack that their daughter, their loved one is being attacked. Savannah Sapp in the midst of all their pain. This woman is safe and sound at home with her family. Go ahead, dear. They, you know, since Carly's return, they have been eerily quiet and not allowing investigators to talk further

with Carly. Guys, take a listen to our cut 19. This is from NBC. She's having to deal with the trauma of people just making completely false allegations about her. Her family now urging the public to let the investigation play out, but mentioning an abductor. Her mother asking to read a brief message to the public. Carly has given detectives her statement

so that they can continue to pursue her abductor. Do you believe that there's an abductor still out there? Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, you've got to hand it to the mother. There's no love like a mother's love. If you have information, dial 205-822-5300. Goodbye, friend.