Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Missing Connecticut Mom of 5 Jennifer Dulos Estranged Hubby new Claim: medical bill proves my wife is alive!

Episode Date: October 18, 2019

Fotis Dulos' attorney says a medical bill dated after the mom of five went missing proves she is alive. Jennifer Dulos' family says it's another attempt to drag the mom's name through the mud. With Nancy Grace today discussing the case: Atlanta trial attorney Penny Douglas-Furr; forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan; Radar Online reporter Alexis Tereszcuk; Crime Online reporter Dave Mack. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Today on Crime Stories, we head to Connecticut. The attorney for estranged husband Fotis Dulos, the husband of missing Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer Dulos, is at it again with another theory to drag the missing victim, the mom, through the mud. Joining Nancy Grace, famed trial attorney Penny Douglas-Furr. Forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan. From Radar Online, Alexis Tereszczuk. Investigative journalist for Crime Online, Dave Mack. And in the Crime Online studios, Jackie Howard.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. An update from New Canaan tonight, where friends and family of a missing New Canaan woman are reacting to the newest claims being made by her estranged husband's attorney. As we reported, Norm Pattis again asked the court for access to Jennifer Dulos' medical records, saying they show she saw a doctor six weeks after she disappeared. A spokesman for the friends and family of Jennifer say the bill is a routine quarterly statement with no connection to in-person visits. The statement goes on to say to allege that Jennifer, together with her family, orchestrated her own disappearance is baseless and cruel. Well, the attorney for estranged husband Fotis Dulos, the husband of missing Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer Dulos, is at it again with another theory to drag the missing victim, the mom, through the mud. Her family speaking out. I don't blame them.

I would be screaming out. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You were just hearing our friends there at News 12 Connecticut. Looks like Jennifer Dulos' estranged husband, Fotis Dulos, and his lawyer. No, no bounds in what they will say to besmirch the name of Jennifer Dulos, a mother of five. In the last hours, the family of missing Connecticut mom Jennifer Dulos slammed a claim

by estranged husband Fotis Dulos that she, Jennifer, got medical treatment after she disappeared. Jennifer Dulos, as you know, has been missing now since the end of May. Her estranged husband, Fotis Dulos, facing charges related to her disappearance, but not kidnapping, not murder, tampering with evidence. He allegedly is caught on video throwing out bloody clothing, bloody sponges. Last time Jennifer was seen, she took her children to school, came home. I don't believe she ever made it out of the family garage because there is blood spatter. There is blood dropping, not only in the family garage, her cell phone stayed in her car. It never made it in the home. And that cell phone that she had with her as she dropped her children off at school that morning

traveled with her car where it was later abandoned in a disley wooded area near a park. That garage, bloody, blood on her car, blood on the other car that had been parked in the garage. But no Jennifer. The husband and his girlfriend allegedly spotted throwing out bloody sponges, bloody cleaning, things like a mop, bloody t-shirts, a Vineyard Vines t-shirt that had belonged to Jennifer, all bloody. Still no murder charge, no kidnapping charge. And it's just crazy how he suddenly turns into a neat neck getting his vehicle belonging to an employee cleaned and detailed and then assisting the employee get rid of the back seat of his own

car why because jennifer's blood was in the back seat of the employee's car that Fotis Dulos, the husband, took without the employee's knowledge. And now, in the last hours, he and his defense attorneys launch another claim that Jennifer's really alive and that she has orchestrated a disappearing act along with her family. Really? What about all those bloody clothes he allegedly was throwing out with his lover? Before we go to our all-star panel, I have a legal expert with me right now. You know her well, Penny Douglas-Furr, who is no stranger to a divorce case. She's handled many, many of them. You know, Penny, I got a problem with this lawyer dragging Jennifer's name through the mud, suggesting that this mom of five, very devoted mom of five, would intentionally pull a disappearing act along with her family and pretend she was murdered when she's got five children looking for her by pulling up some old medical bill that was computer generated. How could this come back and bite the husband in the neck?

Well, Nancy, even with his case, it hurts his case because every time he makes another allegation, it brings all of this up again. Everybody starts talking about the bloody clothes. People who are going to sit on the jury hear about the bloody clothes. And so I really think that to benefit his side of the case, he's better off just saying nothing at all until trial. I mean, Penny Douglas-Furr, you've tried and handled so many cases how you and I met. You're on the other side of a felony case and I was prosecuting it. Long story short, that's why we have the Fifth Amendment. That is why it is part of the Bill of Rights, the first ten amendments to the Constitution. So people will get the hint, shut the hay up. But apparently he's not getting the message because very often he's standing beside his lawyer with a freaky little smirky smile on his face while his lawyer drops another bombshell on Jennifer's family. I mean, there's a chance that these crazy theories, I mean, here's this one. They get a bill for Jennifer's medical treatment, and then they take to the airwaves claiming, oh, this bill was after she goes missing.

So this shows she's alive. The family fights back and says, no, idget. It's a computer- computer generated bill, just like you get an American Express bill or whatever bill in the mail. This is a bill for previous medical treatment, whatever it may have been. But Penny, why would they do this? Well, it makes him look stupid. I don't understand why they're doing this. Talking, period, just doesn't help his side. There's nothing that helps his side. off just letting it go away and letting time pass. Because bringing things up and continuing to talk will hurt him tremendously because these things he's talking about, they could come back up at trial. And when they do, he looks totally crazy. How in the world did we get here and where is

Jennifer Dulos, Connecticut mom of five? Take a listen to our friends at ABC. This is the second time that Fotis Dulos has been arrested in connection with the disappearance of his estranged wife, Jennifer, a mother of five. She's been missing since May 24th. Mr. Dulos taken into custody this afternoon at his home in Farmington and we're told he will be charged with tampering with evidence again. Dulos and his girlfriend Michelle Traconis have been free on a half million dollars bail each since their arrest in early June. At the time they were charged with hindering prosecution and evidence tampering. Dulos has been under GPS monitoring.

He is not allowed to have contact with any of his five children. Meanwhile, no sighting of Jennifer Dulos since her disappearance. State believes a serious assault took place in the Dulos home. They found blood splatters and stains, along with evidence of an attempted cleanup. A man resembling Mr. Dulos was last seen on surveillance cameras dumping garbage bags in various spots in Hartford.

Dulos has denied any wrongdoing, but again, he is under arrest again and again charged with evidence tampering. And still the big mystery, what happened to Jennifer Dulos and those five children without their mom and in a very real sense now also without their father? What we know right now is he is facing, this allegedly successful real estate developer, facing additional tampering with evidence charges. Now that does not a murder make,

but you've got to ask yourself, why is the estranged husband tampering with evidence? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace bombshell in the last hours the estranged husband of missing connecticut mama five jennifer dulos lawyer says she's not missing she's not dead she's still alive and as a matter of fact has fabricated an intricate plan to stage her own disappearance this after we learned from an extensive affidavit that police are eyeing her husband Fotis Dulos and his lover because they say the two were caught

on video on surveillance video throwing out bloody items and over 20 stops items that are positive for Jennifer Dulos blood right now Jennifer's five children are in the temporary custody of Jennifer's mother husband Fotis Dulos has tried every trick in the book to get a hold of her medical records why this latest allegation that Jennifer Dulos has tried every trick in the book to get a hold of her medical records. Why? This latest allegation that Jennifer Dulos has faked her own disappearance as proven by a computer-generated medical bill that was generated after she goes missing, that is the evidence the defense lawyer is using for this bizarre claim. With me right now, before we go back to our panel, renowned attorney, no stranger to family law courts, Penny Douglas-Furr in the Atlanta

jurisdiction. Penny, this is just one of many, many claims, outlandish claims Fotis Dulos' lawyer has made. First of all, they said that Jennifer Dulos had written a, quote, gone girl novel script and that that script was basically, had, quote, serious psychological problems and was a, quote, hermit for years before he asked her for a divorce. Remember, he's the one that was having an affair. Now, this is despite being banned from speaking about Jennifer by the trial judge. He goes on to speak to Pronto Thema last week. It's a Greek news website trashing his wife. Now, I find that very interesting, Penny Douglas, because the court gave her primary custody. She was the one taking the children back and forth to school. She was the

one carrying on normal relationships with her friends. She was the one that wanted a divorce after he was having an affair with, I guess, his first lover. Probably not. So why would he go to the press after being warned by the trial judge not to do that and trash her? If she had any emotional problems, it's probably because of him. Well, that can easily be turned on him. And divorce cases are hotbeds for this kind of nastiness going back and forth between the two of them. However, he would be the first person they look at because if he's losing in the divorce and she's getting custody and she's winning these things, he's going to be hostile, he's going to be angry, and he's going after her. So it's worse for him in this murder case.

Well, it's like you can't be quiet. This interview that he gave this Greek news outlet was very lengthy and included claims that he was the one who wanted a divorce in 2016 and 18, but the reality is she's the one that filed for divorce in 2017. This was published on September 27, weeks after the judge gave a gag order banning him and his lawyers from speaking out about Jennifer's character in any way that could impact the jury's opinion. And now they've done it again. What about the five children? They're going to hear all this. What about that, Penny?

Well, he sounds like an arrogant sociopath. An arrogant sociopath. Well, that's one way of putting it. I look from where I come from, Penny, we call it a horse's rear end, aka jackass. They're not concerned about their children. They care about one person themselves. And he's showing he doesn't care about his children by exactly what he's doing now. And I don't understand why the judge is not holding him in contempt. I don't understand it either. Now, the reality is that time after time after time, he, Fotis Dulos, through his lawyer,

is violating the judge's gag order and dragging his, I believe, dead wife through the mud while he and his girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, walk free. Where is Jennifer Dulos? Well, better put, where is her body? To syndicated talk show host Dave Mack. Dave, I want to start at the beginning. Where did she go missing? When did she go missing? She dropped her children off at 8 a.m. The next thing we know is that she missed an 11 a.m. appointment. At 12 noon, the cleaning lady came by and there was nobody home. So the police have

tightened the timeline down to the last time she was seen. one of the most expensive areas outside of 90210. It's around the New Canaan area of Connecticut. And I learned living in New York that all the rich people would leave after work and take a train to New Canaan. I mean, they're really, really wealthy people. So I can't identify where the woman was living. The husband was living in a $4.3 million mansion, but they had split up. Long story short, this is where I'm going with this, Dave Mack, 8 a.m. to 11 a.m. With me, Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host. Joe Scott Morgan, I need you on this one. You know, when I'm up making a cup of hot tea first thing in the morning at about 5 a.m., I do not expect a kidnap to go down. What I'm saying is I've been prosecuting for many, many years, and it's much more unlikely for violent crime to occur first thing in the morning. Now, this is just anecdotal for me, but it's rare when you see a kidnap or a murderer

or a violent crime occur first thing in the morning. What is that? I always say I felt perfectly, perfectly safe going out and hand delivering subpoenas first thing in the morning because all the dopers would still be asleep like vampires. So what is it? The crimes do happen, but it's a very rare first thing in the morning. Yeah, you're right, Nancy. I mean, even SWAT teams and drug task force, like you had stated, they will go and serve warrants at these violent offenders' homes, generally at that period of time, because you know these people are not going to be out of the bed by that time.

Oh, oh, H-E-double-L. No, because they've been up all night long breaking the law, selling dope, driving around town trying to steal things and arm rob. Mm-mm. You can set up a whole battering ram outside a doper's door at 6 a.m. They won't know anything's going on. They're dead to the world until about 3 p.m. So can I just get a yes-no on that, Joe Scott?

Yes. So, Dave, Matt, you, no on that, Joe Scott? Yes. So, Dave, Matt, you're telling me she goes missing between 8 and 11? She either wanted to disappear and get away from her life mighty early in the morning, and we don't have any signs of her clothes being packed or a bus ticket, a plane ticket, nothing like that, do we, Dave? When the police actually went to her rented home in New Canaan, they found traces of blood and obvious signs that it had been cleaned up so that the maid could not realize what had happened. So I'm assuming they used luminol or something along

those lines to determine that it was enough blood. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Who is they? Who used luminol? I'm sorry, the police. The police all converged on her home to try to find her. And again, we've got an 8 a.m. dropping off at school. By 11 a.m., she misses an appointment. And by 12 noon, the maid says there's nobody here. When the police show up to investigate, they find traces of blood at such a level that they believe it had been cleaned up in an effort to conceal it from the maid when she arrived at noon. Her family says she was, quote, afraid for her life. That's what we're learning, that she was a, quote, nervous wreck after filing for a divorce from husband Fotis Dulos, her husband of 13 years. Now, according to police, over 30 items of clothing and sponges bloodied have been found on a four-mile stretch in Connecticut.

That DNA apparently matching up to Jennifer Dulos. But according to the husband's lawyers, that the missing mom, Jennifer D writes a 500 page gone girl style script many years ago and he is now claiming she had a quote troubled past and quote struggled with drugs her whole life that's interesting straight out to RadarOnline.com's Alexis Tereszczuk investigative reporter because he's had five children with her. And I don't recall him ever calling defects or causing any disturbance about the mom using drugs or ever having any problem leaving his children alone with her. Nope, none whatsoever. This is, according to her family, this is coming from out of nowhere, that these are

really dirty tactics to blame a victim. And they've never heard of any of this. And this novel that she wrote, she is a New York University NYU graduate in literature, and she loves to write, is what her mom has said. So this is just an old story that she wrote. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome back. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Fotis Dulos, the estranged husband of missing Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer Dulos, lawyer, has stuck his foot in his very big mouth once again, this time claiming that because of a computer-generated medical bill the family says medical services rendered long before Jennifer went missing, that it's proof she's alive and is now perpetrating a fantastical hoax on not only us, the public, the court system, prosecutors, investigators, but on her own five children as well, that she's really gone on her own volition, faked disappearance in order to, quote, get back at him. There have been so many claims. In fact, one of the outlandish claims, Penny Douglas, for with me, a renowned family lawyer in the Atlanta jurisdiction and beyond, is that, catch this, I hope you're sitting through his lawyer, that she wanted to spite him so much that she killed herself just to get back at him.

Yeah, forget about raising her five children. I mean, Penny, I'd kill anybody that tried to separate me from my children. So why did she fight the custody case? Why did she go for custody? Why did she go through all this? Typically, when a sociopath does something, they will blame the other person and claim they did the same thing that the sociopath has done. So anything he's blaming her and saying she did, it's probably exactly what he did. Take a listen to our friends

at CBS. The defense attorney, John Blaue, to lift the veil of privacy and review Jennifer Dulos' medical records. The prosecution objected. This is exactly what this is. It's a fishing accident that's determined for what these records are. Defense attorney Norm Pattis says the records show Jennifer underwent $14,000 in testing in the three months prior to her disappearance, with charges for blood work, diagnostic, and reproductive testing. Pattis says it could help prove the defense theory that Jennifer disappeared on her own accord. The judge denied the request for now. Fotis Doulos is charged with taking bloody

evidence from his wife's home and disposing of it. The two were going through a bitter divorce. Her whereabouts and condition remain a mystery. There are no murder charges in this case. During a fight with prosecutor Richard Colangelo over a proposed gag order, Pattis dropped this piece of news. There's a lot that I could say and haven't said. For example, we're aware that a lot of missing money that was taken from Mr. Dulos' accounts by Jennifer. I haven't gone to the press with that. Colangelo replied that Pattis has given the media incorrect information, such as claiming co-defendant Michelle Traconis, Dulos' former girlfriend,

took and passed the lie detector test. The prosecutor says that, quote, never happened. Does it never end with this guy, Penny Douglas-Ferr? Will it never end the way he's trashing her? First of all, she's dead. And now this, claiming that she stole money from him. Let me tell you something, Penny Douglas-Furr. The grandmother in this case, I'm referring to Jennifer's mother, who is now taking care of her five little children, is now looking for the money Fotis Dulos owes her. Fotis Dulos borrowed over a million dollars from Jennifer's parents to help his failing construction company. He fancied himself as a designer of mansions for wealthy builders

in the New England area, and he borrowed heavily from Jennifer's parents, which he never paid back, I might add. And now, in the most recent development, the grandmother, Jennifer's mother, wants to know why he, Fotis Dulos, is not paying child support. The grandma has all five children. It's hard enough for me to raise the twins at work. Can you imagine a grandmother in Manhattan? You know how hard it is to hail a cab in Manhattan? She's raising these five children in Manhattan and now

claiming he is not paying child support. And now they jump up and claim she, Jennifer, took his money? He's living off her. He's a leech, Penny. Nancy, everything he is claiming that she did is something he did. He's a sociopath.

And when they claim that their wife does something, it's exactly what they did. They always pretend the other person did it. And he claims she's on heroin and he makes up all these stories. That means he was using it. That's why he's saying all these things. because these children are going to read all this one day when they get old enough to research about their mom and her disappearance. The suggestion that she took money from him, he owes her and her family so much money according to the grandma.

That's why he couldn't go through the divorce, Nancy, because if they went through the divorce, all these that he's calling loans, it would be he's trying to pretend they were gifts. And so when they came up in the divorce, most likely the judge would have said it's a marital debt and he would have split it and made him pay some and made her pay some. But the bottom line is he would have had to pay those back and he would have had a court order ordering him to pay her family the money back. You know what, Penny? This is the way our system works. The Constitution protects the defendant, the accused, the suspect, okay? Nothing protects the victim, and in this case, nobody is there to protect Jennifer Dulos. As a

matter of fact, as we go to air, we learn even more. The attorney for Jennifer Dulos' mom is renewing a call for information on how this defense lawyer, Norm Pattis, is being paid. The attorney representing the mom, Gloria Farber, in her $2.5 million lawsuit against estranged husband, Fotis Dulos, and his company is asking the judge to reconsider his decision to acquiesce their subpoena issued to the criminal defense lawyer. Now, I can tell you right now, she's not going to get any information out of the defense lawyer because that is protected by the attorney-client privilege, and there is no way they're going to give it up, even who's paying the bill. It's not going to happen. But we also learn in all of these documents that according to

attorney Richard Weinstein, who's representing Jennifer's mom, he's been trying to claim, trying to prove claims that Fotis Doulos transferred a ton of money to Greece from his real estate company, and they're trying to find all that money. Meanwhile, meanwhile, there are claims that he's not paying child support to the grandma. I mean, oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. Nancy, this is typical, especially with builders, because they control their money. I've been on the other side in divorces with builders, and their favorite thing is to take the cash out, move it to another country, and the wife would have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars to track and trace that money. And that's why they do it that way.

I will bet you if there was any money in that business, it's in another country in another person's name. We also know that foreclosure on Fotis Dulo's home is happening right now in their Farmington mansion. This as Fotis Dulos has launched even new claims against his missing wife, Jennifer, claiming A, that she's run away with somebody else, B, that she's fabricated a hoax along with her family to perpetrate her disappearance on her children, three, that she's fabricated a hoax along with her family to perpetrate her disappearance on her children. Three, that she has committed revenge suicide, killing herself just to get back at him. Four,

that she had written a Gone Girl type novel or screenplay, and that this is what her disappearance is all about. Now, he's claiming she's stolen from him, while her mom is having to chase him down, allegedly, for child support and for all the money he borrowed from her, his in-laws. And now, they're claiming that she's really alive based on a medical document. It just never ends. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome back. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories in the last hour. A strange husband, Fotis Doulos, heading to court in a civil matter, heading back to court because his missing wife, mother, is going after him for money millions of dollars she claims he borrowed and for closing on the Farmington mansion that he was living in sounds like his whole business was propped up by

Jennifer Dulos mom and dad meanwhile the five children living with grandma in Manhattan, to Penny Douglas-Furr joining us from the legal angle. Penny, what's their game? What are they doing right now? They're sitting there trying to make up a defense. They're trying to come up with a defense that they can make at least one person on the jury buy so he will not be convicted of killing his wife. But they're apparently violating court orders,

which is going to get them into very difficult water because if the judge is furious with you for violating court orders, that's not the way you want to start any trial. Where is Jennifer Dulos? What happened to this loving, doting mom of five? Fotis Dulos, 51, a real estate developer, seemingly successful, in for about $2 million to Jennifer's parents. We also know that in the last hours, Jennifer's mother has filed motions demanding that the husband, Fotis Dulos, reveal all of his financial records and any alleged sneaky dealings. We understand that he had borrowed heavily from Jennifer's parents to the tune of one or two million dollars to prop up his construction business. Jackie Howard, what can you tell me? Jennifer's mother, Gloria Farber, has been caring for her five grandchildren since Jennifer went missing back on May 24th. Farber filed a motion seeking all of Fotis

Dulos' corporate and individual financial records. That's because Dulos is looking to get custody of his kids from Farber. Farber says, though, that Dulos doesn't have the means to support his children, claiming he has no source of income, has defaulted on mortgages, owes her late husband's estate, as you said, more than $1.7 million. Farber also claims there has not been any child support payments in more than two years. In return, his defense team has filed a motion on Jennifer's mother demanding she submit to a mental evaluation. You know what? That's playing

dirty. It is, Nancy, but you know you don't have to worry about Jennifer's mom, Gloria Farber. Take a listen to this from our friends at WTNH. Lawyers for the estranged husband of Jennifer Dulo is now asking for her mother to be evaluated. A legal battle plays out over custody of the couple's children. Laura Engel is following this story for us. Laura. Hi, Sandra. Well, the motion for psychological evaluation was filed early this morning by a lawyer representing Fotis Doulos, the family lawyer for Doulos, asking the court to appoint a psychologist to conduct this evaluation of his children's grandmother, Gloria Farber, saying they have no choice but to make such a request to ensure that his five

children, who she has temporary custody of, are safely cared for. And he claims that Gloria Farber, the mother of his estranged wife Jennifer, has previously been psychiatrically hospitalized and had once threatened to kill herself and her late husband, adding that electric shock therapy was discussed by family members as an option for the treatment at the time. The attorney for Gloria Farber tells us she will be filing a formal written statement in response to all this. Fotis Doulos and his girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, you'll remember, are accused of tampering with evidence and hindering prosecution in the disappearance of his estranged wife, who has been missing since May 24th. Their five children have been staying with their grandmother ever since,

and Fotis Doulos has not been granted access to his kids. THEIR FIVE CHILDREN HAVE BEEN STAYING WITH THEIR GRANDMOTHER EVER SINCE. AND PHOTAS DULOS HAS NOT BEEN GRANTED ACCESS TO HIS KIDS. JENNIFER DULOS, HER MOTHER GLORIA FARBER HAS RESPONDED TO A MOTION FILED ON BEHALF OF HER SON-IN-LAW, PHOTAS DULOS. YOU MAY RECALL THAT HIS DEFENSE ATTORNEY REQUESTED THAT FARBER UNDERGO A PSYCHIATRIC

EVALUATION. FARBER SAYS SHE HAS NO OBJECTION TO THIS, ADDING THAT HER SON-IN-LAW SHOULD BE EVALUATED AS WELL. GOING BACK TO THE LAST QUESTION, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAS NOT RECEIVED A

SIGNIFICANT REQUEST TO RECEIVE A PSYCHIATRIC EVALUATION. FARBER SAYS SHE HAS NO OBJECTION TO THIS, ADDING THAT HER SON-IN-LAW SHOULD BE Farber undergo a psychiatric evaluation. Farber says she has no objection to this, adding that her son-in-law should be evaluated as well. Going on to say that the motion is salacious and demonstrates Fotis Dulos' capacity for cruelty. As you all know, Jennifer filed for divorce in 2017, has been locked in an acrimonious legal battle for custody of their twin boys, another set of twins, boy, girl, and a daughter, all the children, very young, between 8 and 13 years old. Jennifer had written in court documents, I am afraid for my family's safety. Wow. To get an

idea what she looks like, to to me she looks a little bit like jennifer garner um trying to figure this all out alexis what more can you tell us for the last two years jennifer has been fighting for us for custody of her five children in multiple court documents she has claimed that she's afraid for her life she's afraid of him he is somebody that she really feels like could really do harm to her and the children. And she has been begging a judge to give her custody of the children. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.