Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Missing Girl Audrii, 11, Fished From River: Nazi Sex Perv Suspect

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

Audrii Cunningham's body has been found along the Trinity River after water levels were lowered, allowing detectives access.   Don Steven McDougal, 42, led investigators to the location earlier in the investigation. McDougal has now been charged with capital murder.   Don Steven McDougal has been a person of interest since the first 24 hours of Audrii Cunningham's disappearance. He was arrested on an unrelated charge. In 2010, Don Steven McDougal was working in a local garage with Elic Bryan III. Bryan says McDougal seemed like an OK guy, until one night when McDougal had too much to drink and Bryan had to kick him out of his house. McDougal left, briefly, and came back with a knife, slashing tires and trying to stab Bryan.  Bryan had to get his gun to try to run a drunk McDougal off his property, but it took police with police dogs coming out to track him down and take McDougal to jail. Don Steven McDougal admits he was supposed to take Audrii Cunningham to the bus stop but he has yet to tell investigators if she made it to the bus stop or not.  Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Elic Bryan III - Assaulted by Don Steven McDougal in 2010  Lana Shadwick – Attorney, Former Harris County Judge and Prosecutor; Legal Analyst for Breitbart, Texas; Facebook: @TXBoots Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych/FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice Chris McDonough – Director at the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective; Host of YouTube channel: “The Interview Room” Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth) and Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School  Mark Klaas - Founder, Klaas Kids Foundation Bob Price - Associate Editor and Sr. News Contributor for Breitbart Texas; Twitter: @BobPriceBBTX /FB: Bob.Price.Texas See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I Heart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, the body of a beautiful little girl, Audrey, just 11 years old, has been pulled out from under a bridge in a Texas river. Heads are gonna roll. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to this. At this time, I sadly announced that Audrey's body was located at the Trinity River on the U.S. Highway 59. As a result of today's developments, I will discontinue the Amber Alert for Audrey, and I want to thank DPS, Department of Public Safety, for all their help in this alert.

The information that we have gathered in this criminal investigation is substantial. My heart aches with this news, and I express with my deepest sympathies and condolences to everyone who knew, who cared for and loved Audrey. The Sheriff's Office, we will continue to process the evidence that has been gathered to ensure that the justice for Audrey. And you can hear the Polk County Sheriff Byron Lyons voice cracking after he and his whole team, volunteers, you name it, tried to find Audrey alive. That did not happen. Take a listen to what else Sheriff Byron Lyons has to say. Thank you to Trinity River Authority for lowering the water levels so that the divers could

reach the area, could reach areas of interest. Due to the lowering, we were able to contact TRA, Trinity River Authority. They slowed down the outflow from the reservoir and it allowed the water to go down and her body was discovered there in the water. But I'm not going to say whether it was Harris County or Montgomery County or Echo Search, it was a conglomeration of a lot of love and law enforcement networking together that helped discover her. I've done a lot of dive searches, but never have I seen the water actually lowered in a body of water in order to find a body. For those of you just joining us, the body of an 11-year-old girl, Audrey Cunningham, has been found.

Joining me in all-star panel to make sense of what we know now, including a man that predicted the defendant would attack again after the defendant attacked him. Did he go to jail? Hell no. That's why he was out to murder Audrey. Yeah, that victim joining us. But first, to Bob Price joining us, associate editor, senior news contributor. You can find him at Breitbart.com.

Bob, thank you for being with us. Tell me about the discovery of this child. Well, Nancy, thank you for having me on to discuss this horrific situation. So Sheriff Lyons announced yesterday that they had recovered the body of this 11-year-old innocent little girl. Just an absolutely tragic event. Yesterday on your show, you discussed that the sheriff had taken Mr. McDougal around various places he had been that day. One of the places that he took the sheriff's department to was that bridge where they found Audrey's body near one of the bridge pillars underneath the bridge. Stop right there, Bob Price. Number one, you think I believe one thing that P-O-C says, technical

legal term, piece of crap. One thing he says, he's going to twist this every way he can to his benefit. Hey, Bob Price, when he was driving the police around, did he say, oh yeah, that's where I put her body? So what the sheriff explained is that he just took them to places that he said he had been that day, kind of accounting for your time, so to speak. Bob, is it true this guy backed into a tree and left an identifying mark from his bumper on the tree when he was disposing of an 11-year-old girl's body. I think that's how they figured it out. They find the backpack. They see that Mark on a tree and they know. Well, this is the place where the body was found.

It's about five miles down the river from where the backpack was found. But yes, he reportedly did strike a tree with his Suburban, and they were able to match both what I've been told, tire tracks and his bumper marks to that location where the backpack was found. And then the body was found lower down the river, and the current's moving very swiftly there. This is just below the Lake Livingston Dam, and the water is high in the Lake Livingston dam and the water is

high in the debt in the lake right now and so they've been releasing a lot of water the currents been flowing rapidly and that's why they were able to lower the level of the lake as you mentioned River in order to slow the currents down enough that the divers could get in to where they suspected her body would be and sure enough they found it there. I asked Sheriff Lyons yesterday if there was any evidence that the body had been weighted down or in any other way rigged to where it would stay underwater. And he declined to answer that comment.

He did not say no, which I would think he would say no if that wasn't the case. But he declined to answer that. Can I ask you something, Bob Price? What is so unique about his bumper? Does he have a hitch on it? That they could identify the mark on the tree and match it to his bumper. I'm not sure exactly how they matched that. It could be that there was maybe evidence of the tree on the bumper, something like that.

I'm looking at it right now. There's got to be something unique about that bumper. Maybe there's some paint on the tree that will match up. I mean, you know, you can forensically identify a type of paint from a car and trace it to the year, the find, if you take the time, forensic evidence of tree residue on the bumper. That said, joining me now, in addition to Bob Price, associate editor, senior news contributor, Breitbart, longtime friend and colleague, the gold standard, Mark Klass is joining me. Mark Klass, founder of Class Kids Foundation at classkids.org, has devoted his life to finding missing children after his

beautiful daughter Polly was kidnapped and murdered. May that perp rot in hell. Mark Klass, just so many thoughts colliding in my head right now because when Bob Price, our investigative reporter, is speaking, he's talking about the currents and the cold water and her body under a bridge. All I can think about is this little girl's body going along with the current, dead, probably face down in that cold, cold water till it lodged under a bridge. An 11 year old girl marked class. Let it rip. Well, listen, Nancy, before he lowered her body or tossed her body

into the river, he exposed this child to the worst possible nightmare that anyone could even envision. I mean, she was taken to this place. She was murdered by this guy. She was most likely sexually assaulted by this guy. And he went on with his day after this. This is a guy that has a criminal history, somebody that is known to have caused harm, yet he was given access to this child. I don't understand this dynamic at all. I don't understand what the priorities were with this little girl's family, that this guy could even have access to then commit the horrendous and dastardly deeds that he did. It's absolutely obscene. Hey, who's this speaking?

It is obscene. That was Bob, sorry. Hey, Bob. Bob Price, I was just about to go to you. Bob Price, investigative reporter, joining us from Breitbart. Bob, something, and I want to go back to Mark Klaas on this, but Bob Price, yes, no. Isn't it true that the defendant in this case, Don Stephen McDougal, age 42, was spotted at a gas station around 9 a.m. And at that time, he did not have Audrey with him. Is that correct?

Yes, video evidence has proven that to be true according to what we've heard. It's just absolutely obscene that this man was within a thousand yards of this little girl at any time. This father is very evident.

The man is covered with neo-Nazi tattoos, Aryan Brotherhood tattoos, SS. A Nazi swastika for Pete's sake. Yes, all of these kinds of things. And in pictures, he's doing the 1-2, A-B, Aryan Brotherhood. I mean, it's like, does a piano have to fall on your head to know this guy is bad? Stay away from him. And I'm following up, Bob Price.

Thank you for confirming that. Mark Klass, you said this and chills, arms and legs. He just went on about his day like nothing had happened. There he is filling up with gas after he's been driving around and around and around with this girl's body, probably in the car to find a place to dump her body. And look, he's a sex offender. He's already pled guilty to trying to have sex, taking the underwear and the PJs off

a little girl, getting in bed with her. How did he get access to another little girl? Nancy, he showed up at a donut shop across from the courthouse, which is a mile from the jail the next morning. Talk about nonchalant. Yes. Mark Klass, what you said just before Lana jumped in. Guys, Lana Shadwick, high profile lawyer out of Texas who has made her way out of the courtroom to join us. Former Harris County judge and prosecutor atlantashadwick.com also added, and she's right, Mark Klass, the guy didn't just go for gas.

He was propped up at a donut shop. This is after he has disposed of an 11 year old girl's body in that cold watermark class. Well, this man has absolutely no value for any life other than his own, or he wouldn't have been able to do that. His conscience would have stopped him. He has no conscience. He's just a killing machine who, for some inexplicable reason, was out and about with an 11-year-old girl.

I don't know what anybody was actually expecting the results of this union to be, but my God, I'm my, my God, if you could only turn back time and talk about detached, he goes to a donut shop, which is right across from the courthouse. You can throw a ball and hit the judge's window. I mean, it's down the street from the jail. What kind of narcissist or detached individual is this? You're going to go downtown where the cops are?

Okay, I just violated every rule to be a good trial lawyer. I placed myself in this by thinking in my own children, Mark Glass. I really don't know how you even move forward. All I can think about is my girl. I mean, a convicted sex offender who was allowed to plead down his case where he attacked another little girl in her bed. He had access to her home, too. Let's think about these similarities.

It's like a fingerprint. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In addition to attacking Alec Bryan, who was with us, Alec Bryan III, I believe with a knife. Now this. Yes, ma'am. Why was he allowed to be around 11 year old Audrey and he's out having a donut mark class, a donut. He's pumping his gas after driving. Don't you know, he went in all these circuitous routes trying to figure out where to hide

this girl's body, this little 11-year-old girl with that big smile, and now he's got to fill up his gas tank and get a donut? Really? Well, I don't know what even to say about something like this, Nancy. I mean, one has to look back at this guy's criminal history and to see how he's been in his medical history and to see how he's been in his medical history and to see how he's been diagnosed. I've spent my life trying to keep people like this away from little children.

You put out the information, you educate people, you raise awareness, you get laws passed, but still there are families that are willing to allow something like this, allow a known monster to have access, unfettered access, apparently, to their little children. I don't know what anybody expects the outcomes of these kinds of situations to be. It's just, it's unbelievable. It's uncivilized. It's nightmarish. It's spawned from the devil himself. Have you looked at this guy's tattoos? I'm not trashing tattoos. Don't care. You want to ink up your body? Have at it. But when you

put swastikas and Aryan Brotherhood tattoos all over your body, you're like a walking billboard. You might as well walk down 3rd Avenue in New York city with a sign that says, I am a piece of crap. Stay away from me. I mean, who puts a Nazi swastika on their arm in plain view and then assist on wearing the sleeveless wife beater t-shirts.

He's proud of it. Jump in. He's walking billboard for the penitentiary system. If we, you know, to your point, and I think Mark is an absolute warrior for children around this country. He speaks with authenticity. And when we think about this guy being out on the streets, it's just horrendous that he would have had access to this small child. Guess what I'm holding in my hand right now, guys? A rap sheet. It goes all the way back to 2001, possession of pot, Cleveland, 2002, assault of a public servant. Don't know what that was. 2003, drugs, 2003, assault, 2003, more marijuana, 2005, evading arrest, 2006, theft, keeps on

going, and meth. Now he's on to meth. And they say pot's not a gateway drug. Okay, whatever. 2007, enticing child. There you go. There you go. That should have been a child molestation charge felony. More aggravated assault, unauthorized use of vehicle. That I guarantee you that was pled down from a theft by receiving stolen property being a car. 2014

theft of property, reckless driving, assault for bodily injury, harassment, 2023, resisting arrest. You know, hold on just a moment. Why am I reading the rap sheet? I have a victim with me right now. Alec Bryan III, who was assaulted by this perv, Don Stephen McDougal, in 2010. Alec Bryan III, what happened? Well, he started working at the place I was at.

Which was where? We worked at an oil change place in Crosby, Texas. Yep. And some friends brought him over to my house, and he got a little belligerent when he was drunk and started making comments and actions towards one of their wives. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Alec Bryan III, what kind of comment did he make to a woman? Oh, he was basically he was grabbing her and hitting on her like he was trying to do inappropriate things with her.

Have sex with her? Pretty much, yes, ma'am. Did he touch any of her private parts, grab her rear end, touch her breasts? What was he saying? He was just talking, I don't know where he touched her because I wasn't that part of it, but she had come out and said that he was groping her and that he was saying lewd things about her and how he wanted to have sex with her. I'm sure he didn't say, I want to have sex with you.

Yes, ma'am. I'm sure he said something along the lines of, I want to F you. I gave up cursing, so sorry about that. Alec Bryant III, and this is in a public place with a group of women and men around? Yeah, this was at my house.

So Alec, if he would do that in front of grown men and women, grope a woman, what would he do with an 11-year-old little girl all alone in his SUV? Or all alone in her home? And they couldn't defend herself. She couldn't defend herself. And in her mind, And they can't defend herself. She couldn't defend herself. And in her mind, this is daddy's friend. You know how hard it is to get child molestation victims to speak out.

They don't even understand what's happened to them. And this is daddy's friend. What's she going to do? She probably thinks, well, daddy knows. They went on vacations together. Okay. What? How do you know this? Please tell me what you know, Alec Bryan III. There is a Facebook page called Justice for Audrey Cunningham, and there are pictures on there of them in a vehicle, Don and Audrey and a group of family members going on vacation to Florida. Back to you getting attacked. So the woman comes out and says, this guy is groping me.

Then what happens? Well, her husband tries to fight him and I stop him and we just throw him out of the house. You darn right. The husband better try to fight him. If David Lynch didn't punch the daylights out of him, if it were me, we'd be looking at a divorce lawyer right now. So the husband goes in. He tries to take a swing at McDougal. You break it up. And then what happens? We basically just, uh, I just forced him out of

the house, told him he's got to go. Okay. And you know, he's being belligerent with me at this time. And, uh, I push him out the door and then a little time goes by and I hear somebody beating on the door. It's him. He has a knife and he stabbed it at my door trying to get back in the house. Then what happened? I grabbed my shotgun and I opened up the front door and he comes at me with the knife and I hit him in the face with the gun, with the barrel of the gun and get him back out the door and we call the cops. He came at you with a knife?

Yes, ma'am. Then what happened? Like I said, I hit him in the face with the barrel of the gun and pushed him out and slammed the door and called the cops. Well, so far, you're the only one that has gotten justice with this guy, Don Stephen McDougal. And it seems like even the barrel end of a gun didn't teach him a lesson because here he is with this 11-year-old girl. Dr. Kendall Crowns, help me out, guys. With me, renowned chief medical examiner, Tarrant County, lecturer, Texas Christian University Medical School, has performed literally thousands of autopsies.

Dr. Crowns, thank you for being with us. Please give me some good news, if there is any good news right now. Forensically, did the cold water help us in any way to determine COD cause of death? So the cold water will slow down the decompositional process, so it will preserve injuries better. Instead of the injuries being obscured by the body decomposing, they'll be kept intact. So in that manner, it'll aid the investigators with the case because there'll be less decomposition. Dr. Kendall Crowns, you've performed so many autopsies.

When you see a child like Audrey laying there on your autopsy table, I don't know. Are you like me? Sometimes I don't know whether to cry or be angry or just throw up, just vomit. How do you do it? There's always an emotional component with children, but you have to always say to yourself, you're here to get the answers. You're here to catch those people that have caused this death or for that

matter to exonerate people that have been blamed for it. But you're there to get answers and you can't let your emotions cloud your judgment or make you biased. Alec Bryan III, who was assaulted by this same guy, Don Stephen McDougal, now person of interest, suspect in the brutal murder, and I guarantee you the rape of an 11-year-old little girl, defenseless, my guess is alone in the car with this guy who was living in a camper in Daddy's backyard. You are quoted saying that he came back to your house and started stabbing the door and the tires of the cars. He pulled the knife on you and came at you. Most important, you're not surprised to hear he's involved in Audrey's disappearance.

Why do you say that? Not at all, because it was just a couple years ago I saw it on Facebook where somebody was looking for information on him because he was sending lewd pictures to their little girl. Dear Lord in heaven, slow it down, EB III. What did you just say? Somebody had posted on Facebook about him,

a picture of him and his name, saying that he was sending lewd pictures to their daughters. To their daughters. Mark Klass, does it never end with this guy? Well, I think that that's an important point. I mean, this guy is a habitual criminal. This guy has been doing dastardly, horrible things his entire life. And exactly where does the prosecutor get off thinking that being light on this guy

is somehow going to change it and make it better for the next individual that has to face him? Obviously, this guy has done how many years? Over 20 years of criminal activity, nonstop criminal activity, assault, going after little girls, doing all of these horrible things, yet here he is on the street in a car with a little girl, and who is he? He's daddy's friend. You know what, Nancy? He's daddy's friend until he isn't daddy's friend.

He's daddy's friend until he takes her out of the car and starts doing whatever the hell it is that he did to her that made him believe he had to throw her dead body into a river. It's just pure evil. Why is this guy even existing? Why is this guy even on the face of the earth? Certainly, why is this guy in society? I'm about to go to our shrink, Karen L. Stark, joining us out of New York. We're now TV radio trauma expert and consultant, but Lana Shadwick set it up for me. Here is a guy with this long record. You were a prosecutor. You're a judge. Now you're a high profile lawyer in this jurisdiction, Livingston, Texas. You know what? Every time I would get a case, it could be a car theft. It could be a nickel bag. It could be a car theft. It could be a nickel bag. It could be any number of things.

And if I saw the defendant had a gun, all I could think about was my fiance, Keith, getting murdered. And I would insist on jail time every time I could get it. Why? In the H-E-double-L? When this guy crawled into a little girl's bed and wrestled off her pajamas and her underwear, why did he get a cheap plea and walk out free? Walk out free! I don't know what they do in Brazoria County, but that won't fly in Polk County, East Texas.

Just telling you right now. And another thing, there he is. I have to find out from Alec Bryan III that this guy is in sending lewd, which means his penis, that's what that means, pictures to her daughters on Facebook. He's not even trying to hide it for Pete's sake. That was never prosecuted. I'm just hearing about that the first time right now, Lana. Well, and not only that, there was a stabbing in August that he was being held on since, I guess, Friday with regard to an aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. That's a clue in Texas. That's what we call a clue. That's what I call a similar

transaction. David Stanley. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, Karen Stark, I've set it up for you. With me is psychologist Karen Stark at KarenStark.com. That's Karen with a C in case you need her. Karen, number one, who is this guy, except I hope, about to enter death row? But who are these people that kept letting him off over and over and over? It's impossible to understand how he was able to get away with this. It just doesn't make any sense. He is a psychopath. There's no surprise at all that he was out there and committing these crimes and after young girls.

And he's a walking advertisement with those tattoos. He's telling you who he is. Okay, I know all that. No offense, Karen Stark. I know all that. I can see all that. I'm asking you, what is he psychologically? Who is he and

how has he managed to charm people to let him into their lives? Nancy, a textbook case of a psychopath. He has no conscience. He could be out there eating a whole meal after he killed her. And yes, you're right. There's no doubt in my mind that he sexually assaulted her, that he probably raped this little 11-year-old. And he does not have a conscience, just like Mark said. So it doesn't mean a thing to him. He could be out there and then do it again and again and again. And it just is shocking. I don't have an answer for why he kept getting off and being allowed to be out there.

In addition to which, why was he living on the property? How could somebody not see with the way that he presented himself that he was a danger to this little girl and should never have been around her? Bob Price joining me, associate editor, senior news contributor, Breitbart. You can find him at Breitbart. You can find him at breitbart.com. Bob Price, again, thank you for being with us. I understand that Audrey's body was lodged on something underneath a bridge. Is that correct? Yes. Yesterday I was down there by the river and I noticed a large number of uniformed tactical police officers in the area.

There were boats in the area, probably 30 to 40 people right in that one area where the body was found. And that is unusual based on what the previous day's activity had been at those locations. So clearly, sometimes Sunday night or excuse me, not Sunday night. These days are running together now. Tuesday night, Monday night, excuse me, the Equus Herge people, we believe, discovered using their sonar, discovered that her body was lodged down there. The currents were too strong at that point in time to get her out. And so the police were there to secure that area. Later on Tuesday, they declared it to be a crime scene. As of this morning, we have an update that District Attorney Shelley Sitton has now

filed the capital murder charges against Don Stephen McDougal. And this is not the only child he was hanging around with in recent months. There's another little girl who's a friend of Audrey's. Audrey went to her birthday party, and Stephen McDougal thinks that going to 11-year-old girls' birthday parties is a cool thing to do. And these parents, who obviously know who this guy is, think it's okay for this neo-Nazi Aryan Nation hate group wearing tattoos. I can't even describe all this stuff.

You know, for them to bring this thug, this animal, to their children's birthday party. You know, I'm thinking back. Lana Shadwick, I want to hear your thoughts on this. I remember when the twins were born, they were very premature. And we have a relative who's perfectly nice, but he smokes. I wouldn't even let him come in and visit the twins because he smoked. And I didn't want, you know, nicotine can trigger sudden infant death syndrome. And it hurt me to do it. I love him, but he couldn't come in. So how in the hell do you let a Nazi Aryan brother around your children? Well, there's two theories to that.

Not taking up for him or anything like that, but there's a social media video post of an individual who's had altercations with McDougal. And she said he's charming, he works you, you wouldn't believe anything, and then boom. And she was in the car with him. He took a cell phone away from her. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait. Drink it from the fire hydrant. First, Ellie, Brian III tells me about this guy coming at him with a knife.

Nothing happened. He walked right out of jail. Then I find out he's trying to send, we believe, penis shots to little girls. Now, what happened with the woman in the car? Why did he take away her cell phone? I do not know. She knew she was in trouble, but I don't believe charges were filed. I don't believe she went to the

authorities, but she's talking now. Why would he take away her cell phone? That's not good. So you can't use it. It calls for help. Okay. Just having a hard time taking all of this in. I want to talk about also the brilliance of how they lowered the water and this entire body of water to reach the child. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining me is, he's been very quiet, which is uncharacteristic, Chris McDonough, director of Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, host of a YouTube channel, The Interview Room, where I found him. Chris McDonough, I've done a lot of water searches and diving myself, but I've never seen a body, an entire

body of water lowered, the water level lowered to get to the victim. Tell me how it's done, because you have. You know, that was a great investigative move by law enforcement in this case by working with the trinity river authority engineers and basically as we're aware there's a reservoir above and so what they do is they close the what they're called lock gates which controls the flow of water downstream because everybody knows water goes in one particular direction. And that in of itself, then, you know, opened up an opportunity for the search, uh, forensic diving teams to, maybe they've got dogs, uh, on boats, uh, where sometimes you can get the scent.

And remember everybody dogs can smell your scent, your clothes, a dead body, you name it, even in water. Go ahead, Chris. Yes, ma'am. And so whenever you have a body dumped into water, there are a lot of considerations from an investigative aspect have to be taking place almost immediately. One question I want to know is, was she alive when she went into the water? Oh, dear Lord in heaven. Why don't you make me think about that? I haven't even considered that. Dr. Kendall Crowns, let's follow up on what Chris McDonough just said.

Crowns, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, this jurisdiction, Texas. Dr. Kendall Crowns, in a nutshell, no Latin phrases, no medical terms. How do you determine if this child was alive when she was put in the water? So usually when an individual drowns, there will be changes in the body that you can find, which include fluid on the lungs called pulmonary edema. They will often swallow a lot of water into their stomach. So you'll look for that. Those two are the main criteria for looking for drowning. You're saying, Dr. Kimmel Krause, to tell somebody drowned alive, they were put in the water alive, you'd find pulmonary edema. I thought that was water around the heart. Water around the heart would be in the pericardial sac, which is the sac surrounding the heart.

So you wouldn't see any water in the heart. You'd see water in the lung. Water or fluid? You mean lake water? Lake water. Lake water. Okay, just question. Why did you say she'd have pulmonary edema?

A, what is that? Two, when you could have so easily said she'd have lake water in her lungs. Well, because if you're alive and you're thrown into the water when you're alive, you'll be gasping and inhaling the water. So you would pull that into your lungs and into your stomach or into your airways and into your stomach. You would find that in the autopsy. How do you examine the lungs to determine there's water and how do you, well I mean two and two still equals four, how do you determine that water was from the lake or

do you really even have to? So you can do with the autopsy the lungs will be heavy and full of fluid and then on histology or microscopic examination you can look for debris from the lake water in the ways yes debris from the lake water how do you get the water and any uh debris therein out of the lungs in order to analyze it well you wouldn't get it out you would actually take sections of the lung at autopsy that then would be processed and turned into microscopic sections to look at under the microscope. And that debris would still be there because it would be entrapped in the airway. Bob Price joining me, investigative reporter, associate editor, senior news contributor, Breitbart.

Bob, I know that there was a recreational lake. Is she found in the lake or is she found in the river that feeds into and out of the lake? So Lake Livingston is the second largest lake in Texas, and she was found below theway to the Trinity River about five miles downstream from where the dam is and from where the backpack was found. So it's still unclear at this time if she entered the water or was placed in the water near the dam and floated downstream and became entangled in the bulkhead or in the pilings of the bridge, or if McDougal, because he said he went to that bridge that day, that area, did McDougal place her there and trap her in that area where her body would hopefully on his part never be found? Those are the questions that we still need to get from the district attorney's office as this investigation unfolds. Mark Klass, joining me, founder of Klass Kids Foundation, Klass classkids.org. Mark, let me talk to you about the defendant. You've dealt with so many child killers.

Do you think this guy intentionally put her in the river so her body would travel far from the disposal spot? Yeah, I do. I mean, I think he was trying to disappear her. I don't think there's any question about that. But I wonder, listening to this guy's history and listening to what this guy's been allowed to do, if this little girl ever had a chance. I mean, the minute this guy stepped on that property and was allowed to stay on the property,

I think that this child was doomed. And I think that the supervising adults around her should have understood and realized that. And they didn't. They failed their child in the worst possible way. It's absolutely unbelievable. Who lets a neo-Nazi live on your property? A neo-Nazi lets a neo-Nazi live on their property, particularly somebody that's got the uniform, that proudly wears the swastikas, that proudly carries his criminal history, that looks forward to more mayhem and more mayhem. And it's always escalating, Nancy. These things always escalate. And at the end, and we've talked about this hundreds of times, at the end, there's a dead little girl or a dead little boy.

And we all go, well, gee, how could this have happened? Well, sometimes it's inevitable. You know, Mark, you're right. Inevitable. I feel like Audrey never had a chance. I want to go back to Lana Shadwick joining us. Former judge, prosecutor, now lawyer in this jurisdiction, Livingston, Texas. What now, Lana? I mean, will anybody ever fess up? Yeah,

I gave him a cheap deal. Yeah, I didn't prosecute. Yeah, we didn't indict him. I mean, there's one thing after the next, one offense after the next. This guy, for Pete's sake, is using meth. Meth, of all things. Well, the Polk County District him with capital murder because it involves a child 10 years to 15 years old so there's been something done about this now but if he'd been prosecuted for sending penis pictures we think lewd photos to little girls or if his case hadn't been pled down to nothing when he wrestled the underwear and pjs

off another little girl he would have been in jail and audrey would be alive today he would have been in daddy's camper in the backyard for pete's sake if he had been arrested in august for that aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and who who gave the father or the grandmother custody of this child such that they're friends with McDougal? And this is who you're going to let pick up your daughter from the bus stop or take her to the bus stop or take her to school? You know, how do you reconcile yourself, Mark, Chris McDonough, to the fact that the only thing we can do now is get justice for this little girl? That's the only thing left to do. She's not going to go to high school. She's not going to go to

senior prom. She's not going to play basketball or softball for the school. She's not going to be a cheerleader. She's not going to college. She's not going to marry basketball or softball for the school. She's not going to be a cheerleader. She's not going to college. She's not going to marry and have children. It's over. And she died a horrible death and her body is thrown in the cold, cold waters of a running river. And all we're left with are pictures on Facebook and a courtroom.

We got to feel with the jury and get the death penalty. That's what we're going to do. Final thoughts, Mark Klass? Well, yeah, Nancy, the death penalty hopefully ensures that this guy will never get out of prison again. That's why the death penalty needs to exist. There has to be a line drawn in the sand to keep these guys, maybe not into the execution house, but at least out of society and keep them someplace isolated and segregated where they can never touch another innocent human being. It's the only way to create public safety in a situation like this. Absolutely. Death or life without parole.

That's another option. Or life. Not really. No, no, life without parole. That's another option. Or life. Not really. No, no, no, no. Life without parole changes all the time. Laws change all the time. It's a situation in California now where a lot of people that are on death row might be getting resentenced. Yeah, do I have to say Charles Manson?

He got the DP. Remember, Mark? He got the death penalty for how many people did he help kill. And then the law changed and he had the rest of his rotten life to have online friends, women wanting to have sex with him, a website, making money, blah, blah, blah. That's what happens on Life Without Parole. And a disciple that's willing to try to assassinate a president of the United States to impress him. These guys are so dastardly and so awful.

They have to be on death row. They have to be cut off from society. Otherwise, they continue to have an influence. Look, this is what I've got to say, and a lot of people aren't going to like it, but it's on you. Every prosecutor that let him off easy and took a cheap plea so you wouldn't have to go to trial,

everybody who didn't call police, not you, Brian III, because you called police. You tried to do something. It's my fault too, Nancy. I should have pulled the trigger that night. Yeah. You at least got a piece of him with a gun butt, friend. Wow. And you called police.

That's not enough. Everybody that didn't put him in jail, everybody that turned the other way, everybody that exposed this Nazi sex perv freak to their children, it's on you. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an I Heart Podcast.