Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Missing Maura Murray: Lance & Tim search for answers

Episode Date: February 2, 2017

Maura Murray was a 21-year-old college student in February 2004 when she was last seen after crashing her car on a winding road in New Hampshire’s White Mountains. Lance Reenstierna and Tim Pilleri began exploring her unsolved disappearance in 2015, sharing what they’re finding on the "Missing Maura Murray" podcast. Their journey can seem as challenging as the hairpin curve where Murray’s car ran off the road. Tim and Lance are guest on for Thursday’s episode of “Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.” Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. On February 9th in 2004, Maura Murray left her dorm in Massachusetts and drove some 130 miles into New Hampshire. Her car hit a tree. It's cold. It's desolate. It's barren. And it's very dark. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A person came along. He was driving a bus. It was a neighbor. He asked her if she needed help. She refused. My immediate reaction when I found out that my daughter was missing

was right at the edge of panic. She found a car. She was in an accident. She's not there. Where is she? Where is the search now? How far have you looked now? As it turns out, there was no search. The initial conclusions at the scene was that Mara had probably left on her own free will. Imagine this, a cold February evening, very close to Valentine's Day, and you have a fender bender.

But your family says, you're never seen again. I cannot even imagine what it would be like to race to the scene of a fender bender of my sister, my mom, my husband. And the car's there, all their stuff's inside, but they're gone. I just held that thought for a moment. Hello, everybody.

It's Nancy Grace with Crime Stories. And I'm talking about, of course, Maura Murray. And joining me along with the Duke, Alhamduke investigative reporter today, two special guests, Tim and Lance. They have made it their mission to find out what happened to missing Maura Murray. I want to thank someone for being with us today. It is Simply Safe. Simply Safe Home Protection and Alarm System. You know, thousands of people across America every day want a security system, but they think they cannot afford it. I have a security system. Got a security system for my mom.

This is called Simply Safe Safe and I love it. As a matter of fact, a lady in our neighborhood, Miss Shirley, her husband passed away recently. He was a World War II vet like my father. She's all alone and she's been very concerned because somebody will come and ring her doorbell at like three o'clock in the morning and the other morning she woke up around three o'clock in the morning and she could hear someone outside whistling whistling and it scared her so much well she got a simply safe it's $14.99 a month and this is one of my mom's best friends I feel so much better knowing she has it the The thing about it is you can afford it. It doesn't have any contracts.

It's 24-7, 365 protection. There are security professionals watching, and they react instantly and send the police. And you can get 10% off by going to simplisafe.com slash Nancy. simplisafe.com slash nancy simplysafe.com slash nancy and i certainly would not have suggested this to my mom or her friends if i did not believe that home alarm systems stop crime like simply safe that's what i think, this is what we know. February 9, 2004, Haverhill, New Hampshire. Lovely area. Rural.

Not too far from a town. Murray, a nursing student at University of Massachusetts, never disappeared before. But that afternoon, Feb 9, before she leaves campus, she emailed her teachers and her work manager that she was taking a week off. Now, she said it was because of a death in the family, but no one can confirm that. At first, I almost hate to say this, It sounds like a bad echo. Police treat it as a missing person case. That was because of her alleged travel preps. No sign of foul play. She's never been seen again.

This is Feb 9, 2004. What, she's still on vacation? I don't buy it. And I'm also suspicious as to who or why those messages were sent to a work supervisor and professors at school. Let's bring in now Tim and Lance. Guys, thank you so much for being with us. Tim, I've never believed this was a voluntary missing case. Never. Yeah. Thank you very much for having us on, Nancy. Yeah, it's definitely a confusing case,

to say the least. I don't like that. I don't like confusing. And I'll tell you why. Because to me, it's very clear. I'm not confused. I mean, honestly, are you confused? You think she just went on vacation vacation never showed back up just left her nursing studies left her family left her job everything and went to hay with it i'm just gonna leave and leave my car and everything else you really think that's what happened 13 years have gone by i think it's very very difficult to uh to believe that she's still out there. I'm not confused at all. She was taken and she was killed. Tim and Lance joining me from their Missing Maura Murray podcast.

Let's go through the facts. You start, Tim. Okay, well, she got into a single car accident at about 7.30 p.m. Oh, back it up. Back it up, Mr. Man. Single car accident. You sound like a cop, for Pete's, back it up. Back it up, Mr. Man. Single car accident. You sound like a cop, for Pete's sake. I'm glad that you started, Tim.

You're next, little boy. When you say single car accident, let's talk about what happened. Okay? What happened? What do you mean by single car accident? I'll never forget when I was a brand new prosecutor. And I was trying to draw up indictments for the grand jury, which basically means you're stuck with reading a big, huge file and then you boil it down.

You figure out what counts should this person be charged with, if any, and then you ferret through all the information and come up with the correct felony counts. And I was reading a police report and it said we secreted ourselves. I'm like, what? You secreted yourselves? I figured out that's cop talk for we went and hid. Okay. Now, single car accident brings back secreted memories. And what that means is they hid themselves to spy on somebody.

So when you say single car accident, this is important, Tim and Lance. What did she hit? My point is, was it staged? What did she hit? My point is, was it staged? What did she hit? Well, there are some out there. There's a school of thought out there that the accident was not, it didn't appear to be a normal misinterpretation of a curve. Route 112 was extremely windy, and it was dark, and there could have been a situation where she might have hit some black ice and overcorrected um but the damage on her car was not really consistent with the

damage um that it do we know what she hit it was a guard i'll just tell you it was a guard rail for pete's sake a guard rail on route nine in hadley um now wait a minute no that was a different father's car that's right that was her dad's car. Yeah, she had an accident two days beforehand with her father's car right outside of UMass. So what do we know about her fender bender? It was the police report says she hit a tree, but we don't believe that's true. We think it was a snowbank. Right. You really couldn't be going that fast on that road to hit a tree. If she was going that fast to go through the snowbank to hit the tree, the damage would have been very obvious and the car would have been in a different spot. Let me ask you a question. What I'm getting at and why I find this significant is really

no detail is insignificant in any criminal case, especially if it catches your interest if you find something unusual about it you need to at least investigate it my point is i don't really care she hit a stop sign a tree or a snow bank but what i'm wondering is was it staged did somebody else do that to her car or was she in the car struggling for the wheel and it went off the road? How do I know she was driving the car or even in the car? So let's start with A before we get to Z. A, do we have any indication whatsoever that she was driving the car? Yes. So a neighbor, Butch Atwood, he lived about 100 yards away from the accident scene, was driving his bus. He was a bus driver. He was driving his bus home that night and came upon the scene probably about a minute later and spoke to Maura, told her that if she wanted, she could go back to his house and get warm. She said, it's okay. I already called AAA. She told him not to call the police. He said he was going to call the police. She said, no, I already called AAA. Okay, hold on right there.

Unless I was freezing to death, I would not go in an unknown man's house. No. And he was a very intimidating looking man. He was over 300 pounds, grizzled, grizzled man. So I don't find that unusual. Now, some people would say, oh, she didn't want to go in there because she had another plan. She was going to take off with so-and-so. I wouldn't go in there either.

So she had a cell phone, correct? Yeah, that's correct. Did she call AAA? Is that real? No. If you go there today, like today, you can't get cell phone reception in that area. And he knew that too. But do we know of a cell phone record where she tried to call AAA?

No, it does not exist. There was no activity on her phone. Okay, that's legitimate. To say she didn't have cell reception, I don't know that. But I do know cell phone records don't lie. So she didn't call, she didn't call, and she lied to the guy. Now, do I hold that against her? No, because I might make something up in order to get away from some dude trying to get me to get into his house, too.

Yeah, I wouldn't get into his house. Okay, so, no. So what happens then? She doesn't go to the house. What happens? Well, then another neighbor pretty much directly across the street at 727 calls 911 and speaks to a 911 operator and explains the scenario outside of her window and describes a flurry of activity at the trunk and between does she see does she see maura at the trunk she sees a woman a Yep. Well, I still think that was Maura.

Because you know why? Statistically, a woman is not going to kidnap another woman out on an ice bank. Okay, that's not going to happen. So let's go with that's Maura for right now. Now, I'm trying to time it. How close was that call to police actually getting there? One of the police officers, Cecil Smith, was dispatched at 729. At 740, the Atwood residence spoke to 911. Wait, give me those times again.

I'm sorry, 740? At 740, the Atwood residence called 911. 911 was busy. They got a call back from dispatch at 742. The first witness call was at 727. And so the first officer arrived on the scene at 746. So there were two 911 calls. So you've got 19 minutes between them seeing her at the trunk and the cop getting there. 19 minutes. Is that right? Yes.

Now, the first time they called 911, it was busy. Is that when they saw her? That was a few minutes later. Right. That was a few minutes later. Butch Atwood went back to his house, told his wife to call. He went back to his bus and couldn't quite see the accident scene, but saw cars going by. Right. In the meantime, Faith Westman, the first witness

across the street called, and that's when police were dispatched. And that was at 26 or 27? 727? 727 was the first call. Yep. And 729 was when police, Cecil Smith was dispatched to the scene. And he got there 19 minutes later, correct? At 7.46. What I'm trying to figure out is how much time elapsed between someone actually seeing her at the trunk and the cop getting there. As long as Faith Westman kept her eyes on the car the entire time, we don't really know. We don't know when Faith Westman hung up the phone and why she hung up the phone. So the last time we know someone saw her was Butch Atwood at between 725 and 730.

Because there's nothing, there's no timestamp on when he saw her. We just know that during Faith Westman's call, he at one point arrived and spoke to Maura. Okay, so tell me the next sequence of what happens next in the sequence of events. Well, she was gone by the time Cecil Smith arrived at 746. And you're saying someone spoke to her other than Butch Adams? Butch was the only person that we know of to speak to her at the scene. Actually speak to her. Okay. You know what's interesting? I wonder if police know of any passersby that saw her that morning. I'm just trying to pinpoint that timeline. No, no. Did anybody come forward and say they saw her?

No one came forward immediately. There was another neighbor who came forward and said that he saw somebody who might have matched her description a few miles up the street, like up on a... Walking. matched her description a few miles up the street, like up on a walking, kind of kind of running and ducking into the woods. But we have suspicions about that individual. That doesn't make sense that you'd be ducking in the woods. I would be waiting for a lady to come along in a car that would give me a ride. Okay, so we've got about a 19 minute lapse there. What could have happened? We know it was her. We know she was in the car.

We know there was some sort of single car accident, staged or not staged. And we know she left the car. And it was at night, so nobody could really see exactly what was going on. Yeah, very dark at the scene. Okay. At some point, we have a witness who pretty much right at the time of the accident, right around that time frame within a few weeks,

she reported to the police that she did see the police SUV with 001 parked nose-to-nose with Moore's car somewhere in that 15 to 19 minute timeframe. We can pretty much narrow it down to about four minutes, four to six minutes, where she left work, was driving to her home. There's a dead zone of cell phone reception, so she called before she left work, and she called when she got back into cell phone reception. In the meantime, she passed by the scene and saw police SUV

001 parked nose-to-nose with Maura's car. However, she didn't see anybody inside the car, figured that it was probably in the process of maybe she was in the SUV with the police officer. It was dark. She couldn't see any particular person. Who was the police officer that answered the call?

Well, Cecil Smith is the first person on paper to have arrived there. But the SUV that we're talking about wasn't actually on any police report. And they say that that police SUV was in the shop at that time. How could that be? I don't know. Either the witness is wrong or they're wrong. Exactly. Who would have been in that SUV?

What cop was attached to that SUV? The only person who was allowed to drive that SUV, 001, is the chief of police. And the chief of police at the time was Jeff Williams. And where was he at that time? Has he been accounted for? I don't know. As far as we know, he might have been drunk. What?

What? Okay, what? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is a whole new monkey wrench you've thrown into this. So another witness states that she sees a police SUV parked nose to nose like you're going to jump off the car and doesn't see anybody in Maura's car and assumes the person, Maura, is in the SUV. The police force says that SUV was in the shop and that SUV is attached to the chief of police. This is before Officer Cecil X Smith gets there.

Huh. See, I don't actually, as much as I'd love to believe the conspiracy theory that the chief of police is involved, the timeline really doesn't fit to me. Because you've only got 19 minutes for chief is the chief of police is involved the timeline really doesn't fit to me no you've only got 19 minutes for what the chief of police to show up kidnap her and make off with her and come up with a cover that doesn't make sense to me and and and faith westman never says in her phone call to uh to 9-1-1 that the police have arrived, which would be something I would think if I was looking at an

accident and I was on the phone with the police and I saw the police arrive, I would say, oh, the police have arrived. That's how I would end the call. Can I ask you another question? Yes, please. That really precedes this moment. What about her statements to or messages to her boss and her professors that she was leaving due to a death in the family? Are we for sure that she is the one that sent those messages or made those statements? The statements about there being a death in the family and that is why she needed to take some some time off uh have been proven to be false according to the email it did come from her email address well that doesn't mean anything to me the fact that it came from her email address i mean i could hack into your email address on my

cell phone right now probably what is it your dob i mean come on or your child's dob or your phone number or your social i mean someone that knew her ie. a boyfriend or an ex-boyfriend, could guess her passcode and send those emails. Sure. Yeah. I'm just not in the – I've given up speculating on this a long time ago. What we know is that an email was sent from her email address. On the other hand, think of how far-fetched that would be. An ex hacking into your email, how far-fetched that would be. An ex hacking into your email,

not far-fetched, but an ex hacking into your email, plus you happen to have a fender bender, plus in 19 minutes you disappear, all that together, to me, doesn't add up. Yeah, it definitely doesn't add up. What the school of thought that Tim and I go on at this point is that with the accident she got into with her father's car, which was a total, she gets into that accident. She allegedly had

boyfriend problems. He was away. He was at West Point. Or he was in Oklahoma at Fort Sill. She was going through a bad stretch, and it seemed like she needed to get away. And if she were to email and lie about a death in the family to get some time off, to get a little extra time off just to clear her head, that's what it seems like happened. Well, would she have gone to visit the boyfriend at West Point? No. Why? I think...

He wasn't at West Point at that time. I think she wanted to take some time to herself. I don't think it was. She had just seen him over Christmas break. I think she needed some time to be alone. Why? Everything she took. Because every time I hear of a woman that says she wants to be alone and goes missing, a guy killed her. Okay? So let's think about this. So just because you saw him at Christmas break, this is February. If they were having problems, would she have gone there to try to work them out?

You're saying he's not at West Point, so where was he? He was at Fort Sill in Oklahoma. So the boyfriend's at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. How far of a drive would that have been? And why would she have ditched her car to do it? It's like a 20-hour drive or something like that. Oh. So what do we know about him?

Has he been investigated? Yeah, he has. He was cleared a long time ago by police. So it sounds like, all conspiracy theories aside, she does have a fender bender and somebody picks her up. Is that what you think? Yeah, I think we both agree that that's what happened. So let's talk about her activity. Didn't she go on Google Map, MapQu quest or something the night before what do we know

about that yeah she uh she called for she called to potentially rent a condo in bartlett new hampshire but she also had directions to burlington vermont in her car that ski season i, did she take ski gear with her? What was in the car? She had basically like a backpack of sort of an overnight bag. Maybe a few, it seemed like she was probably going away for a few nights based on her clothes. Her cell phone, her keys, and her wallet have never been recovered. Cell phone, keys, and wallet. But was backpack still in the car? Yes. Yeah, it was sort of a duffel bag, I think, with a lot of her belongings. And some alcohol as well was in the car still.

So didn't she just go to the liquor store? Yes. She went to the liquor store before she left. So sounds to me like she was going away for a weekend, two or three days somewhere. But was she going to meet somebody? The condo she called had two bedrooms, the condo she attempted to rent. So there's been lots of speculation of that over the years, but no one's ever come out and said they were supposed to be with her. Well, what about her cell phone?

Were there any cell phone calls or emails or texts to suggest she was meeting someone? There was just a mysterious ping, which could have been from her cell phone or to her cell phone off of the Londonderry, New Hampshire tower, which is, I think, about an hour away from where her car was found. But there's nothing. After that, there's been no activity on her phone.

Why do you say it was a mystery ping? It's just tough to get the cell phone records from, I think it was Sprint, back in 2004 for what could have been her checking her voicemail, maybe. There's just been, there's very little information. But I mean, if it pinged off that tower, that means the cell phone was near that tower. Within what it would determine. Well, yeah, that's also strange.

That's also strange because it doesn't make sense with the route she would have taken. From UMass. That tower in the town where it pinged is off of a different highway than the one that she would have taken from western Massachusetts. But doesn't it make sense if someone got her in the car? I mean, she's alone on the side of the road at night.

So she's gone about a mile, according to one motorist, if they're to be believed. And she definitely leaves the scene. So she's either picked up in a car at the scene of her crash, or she starts walking because she doesn't want to go into the home with this butch guy and gets picked up there. So she got picked up by somebody either on foot or at the scene. Why wouldn't it make sense for her, if she's taken involuntarily, why wouldn't it make sense for them to go a

direction of the ping well the the ping came before the accident that came about probably yeah that was the route from um from massachusetts to new hampshire yeah and like tim said it's on it's on a different highway if you were to leave uh umass amherst and go to new hampshire you'd be taking a certain highway this was pinged off of another major highway going to New Hampshire. Who, if anyone, did she know in the Berkshires, Burlington? Because around midnight the night before, I mean, that night, it was midnight, she goes missing that day, Feb 9. She uses her personal computer, her PC, to search MapQuest

to get to the Berkshires or to Burlington, Vermont, both ski areas. So did she know anyone in those areas? Not that we know of. We know her sister and brother-in-law lived in Vermont, but they have not come out and said that she was planning to meet them or anything like that. She's brushing off her boyfriend because at 1 o'clock that afternoon, she disappears that night about six and a half hours later. She writes in an email, I got your messages, but honestly I don't feel like talking to much of anyone. I promised to call today, though.

Did she call him? I don't believe that they actually spoke on the phone. I know that there were calls that were back and forth with checking voicemails, and she didn't actually talk to him on the phone, right, Tim? I don't believe that's in the phone. I know that there were calls that were back and forth with checking voicemails, and she didn't actually talk to him on the phone, right, Tim? I don't believe that's in the phone record. I think she called him, and then he called her back pretty much immediately. She didn't reach him, and then he started calling her friends as well. It seems she was intent on going to a hotel because she called around 2.05

after she calls or emails the boyfriend that afternoon at 1. She calls a number that gives you recorded information about booking hotels in Stowe, Vermont. 2.18, she calls the BF again and leaves a message saying they'll talk later. That was just a message saying they'll talk later. That was just a message. In her car, clothing, textbooks, toiletries. Her room was searched later, and campus police found most of her belongings packed in boxes and art removed from the walls.

There's, yeah, they had, there was a spring break that they had just come back from, so a lot of people have told us that it's not uncommon for everything to still be packed at that time. Huh. Their semester starts later at UMass. It starts at the end of January. So that doesn't mean she was packing up to leave. Right. It could have been she just arrived a few days earlier and didn't unpack.

And on top of the boxes, there was a printed email to her boyfriend talking about trouble in their relationship. Why was that printed out? Why would you print out an email? That's a great question. Got us. That's one of the mysteries of it. She was alone that afternoon, close to 4 o'clock, because she was seen on an atm withdrawing about almost 300 bucks she bought about 40 bucks worth of booze bailey's irish cream kalua vodka okay this was she was alone

because that's caught on video and she picked up accident report forms i guess that was for a crash with her dad's car that That's correct. Yep. Then she leaves on Interstate 91. She checks her voicemail at 437, and that's it. That's correct. And the timing of that is pretty accurate as far as when you lose cell phone reception entering into New Hampshire, entering into the White Mountain region. There was a hairpin turn, as Tim and Lance told us. She goes off the road and hits a tree.

At that point, we think, anyway, or a snowbank, somebody comes along, driving a bus, a neighbor, asks if she needs help. She says no. Ten minutes later, or I believe 19 minutes later, police show up. She's gone. That sounds so staged to me, guys.

And? Yeah, it does does it does seem very staged but that means that there's that means that there's somebody else involved that if it's staged do you mean it sounds like she staged the accident yeah kind of it does kind of sound that way yeah but no one has talked about it. Her friends have supposedly talked to police. Her family has supposedly talked to police enough to where they're satisfied they weren't involved in helping her get away. And I just find it really hard to believe that she would pick that area to stage an accident. It is a remote area, but it's not as remote as people think. It's one of the only places on Route 112 that has homes pretty much immediately in the vicinity. She would have staged an accident directly across the street from somebody's home. And if she was planning

on doing a staged accident, I just don't. Yeah, you know what? You're right. Why would she leave all of her stuff, including diamond jewelry, in the vehicle? Right. The things that she took with her are what I've been calling in my own head, just to make sense. Like immediate things. If I think I'm coming back to someplace, if I'm on a trip and I take the things that I need for a few days, but I need to take off real quick and I plan on coming back, I'm taking keys, wallet, and cell phone. And that's what she took. Locked the car, keys, wallet, and cell phone have never been recovered. So it doesn't seem, unless she's a criminal mastermind, it doesn't seem to be that. What about the contractor? 8 to 8.30, a contractor returning home sees, as he said, a young person moving quickly on foot on Route 112. That was

around four to five miles east of where her vehicle was discovered. Now, that person wearing jeans, a coat, and a light-colored hood. What about that? Yeah, do you want to know my real feelings on that? Or maybe I'll let Tim go with it and then I'll jump in. Well, yeah, I think that account is pretty suspicious because he didn't tell that to police. He told that to a neighbor of his, and the neighbor told police. And then he was questioned after that. And his property was searched pretty good after he left. He actually wouldn't allow police on his property was searched uh pretty good well pretty pretty good after he left he actually wouldn't allow police on his property and he was living in his trailer at the time he was building a house on that same property he sold his trailer and as soon as the trailer left his property it

was pulled over by police and searched and as soon as he sold his property, his house, that property was searched by police as well. Right. And to both came up, both searches came up empty. Guys, wait a minute, though. Isn't that what Maura was wearing? A dark coat, jeans? Yeah, but that that information had been out there for a while. He he could have known that by reading the paper. He lived he lived right across from Butch Atwood.

He lived within 100 yards of the accident scene. And where he put Maura is at the area where... But if you think he's lying, why would he lie? I'm not sure if he had something else to hide. I'm not sure why he lied. But then why get involved at all? I think because he lived so close to the scene and he's a peculiar guy. Why do

you say that? Yeah, by all accounts. By all accounts, we've heard from a lot of locals in the area and people that knew him and know him. He's a very, very strange fella. Strange in what way? What do you mean by that? Strange towards women. Just kind of awkward. Can i ask you what man is not

i'd like to think when you say awkward does he have a criminal record that's what i want to know i don't believe so married divorced he was married uh he was divorced at children two daughters yeah he has two kids. Lance, Tim, pause one moment. I don't know if you heard me earlier mention this, but with us today, our sponsor, Simply Safe, we've gotten this for a lady in our neighborhood, Miss Shirley, who has been our lifelong friend, is the age of my mom, is a recent widow. She did not have an alarm system, and she's had some scary incidents just recently. And there have been some break-ins in our neighborhood.

And I think about her every night. You know, I don't live in Macon anymore. And I think about her being there alone without an alarm. My mom has an alarm. We have an alarm. But we got Simply Safe from Miss Shirley. And even I'm sleeping better, much less, you know, her. You get 10% everybody simply safe.com slash nancy you just can't be safe enough that's what i think okay so tell me this

where does it stand now what does the family think the marty family i think they're not exactly sure what to think, but I think they think that contractor is still a pretty good suspect. And as far as we know, he was, and still is law enforcement's real only person of interest. Now, you know, there's a theory floating around that she took off and is living in Quebec.

Have you heard that theory? Yeah, we went to Quebec. Oh, yeah, we went to Canada. With missing flyers and everything. It's a romantic theory, but the more we looked into it, the more it's just not likely that someone could cross the border. The border restrictions had tightened up since 2001. So to cross the border, everyone uses her good looks.

Are you serious? You don't think you can cross the Canadian border? I don't think you could cross the Canadian border, get a job, and remain under the radar in Canada for 13 years. No, I don't think you could get a job and stay under the radar. I think you can easily get across the border. what uh why was she asked to leave west point she shop she's yeah and she wasn't asked to steal some makeup from from a gift shop guys i'm sorry yeah i know shoplifting is wrong i know that but i'm so used to prosecuting, you know, murders, rapes, aggravated assaults, armed robberies, torture, dope dealers, that a shoplifting, I'm like, eh, I'm not happy about it.

So I know that broke her father's heart by all accounts, correct? Yeah, I think it's safe to say that he wasn't pleased with that. But there are some theories out there that she might have wanted to get caught. She might not have wanted to be there. And that was a way of her rebelling against it and leaving. I know that the father was upset about her crashing the car. Do we know anything else about that? Other than what he said, which is he was upset, but it was the way any

parent would be upset. And they had talked about it the next day and told her that, you know, they discussed getting the proper insurance paperwork, which she had on her, that we know, and they were going to, they were going to take care of it. It really, it really doesn't seem like anything more according to the family, than she got into the accident. The father was upset, but they were figuring out a way to fix it. So they have a big blowout the night before over his crashed car. The next day, she crashes her car and leaves. Never seen again.

We're not entirely sure that they had a big blowout. That's been put online, and that's something that they had like a big blowout. That's that's been put there. That's been put online. And that's that's something that no one can tell us for sure. They probably got an argument, I'm guessing. But that's just I guess I'm just, you know, trying to trying to not make it into something that it probably, you know, might. You might be right. You might be right. But the timing they have the argument over her totaling his car, and the next day she disappears for good.

Is that right? Yes. Yes. Because the accident, that accident happened Saturday into Sunday, you know, early morning. And then Sunday they discussed it, and then, yeah, that's correct. Boy, that cousin really thinks she's living in Quebec and just took off and left and never came back. That she stays, the accident, went down the street, met her boyfriend, and he picked her up, her new boyfriend. That could be the case. But from everything we've looked into on Maura, she wasn't a perfect young woman, but she got along

with her dad. Her dad and her were buddies. They went on camping trips. They hiked. They didn't have, as far as we know, a dysfunctional relationship. And it just doesn't seem like it's in her character from what we've looked into. It doesn't seem like it's in her character to disappear from him for 13 years and put him through this. Well, yeah, that's the confusing thing is what was happening in her life that was so big that would make her want to run away forever. Right, we've never found anything. For 13 plus years. Guys, let's put the tip line out there for anyone having information on Maura Murray. Tim Lance, do you have that number for me? Yes, the New Hampshire State

Police number is 603-223-3860. Yes, that is the best thing to do if you have any information on Maura is to call the state police. I know the first instinct is to contact Tim and I, but we turn around and we contact the proper law enforcement. Guys, the search for Maura Murray goes on. Nancy Grace with Crime Stories signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.