Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Missing Mom Debbie Collier Found Stripped, Dead & Charred After Bizarre Text

Episode Date: September 22, 2022

A Georgia mom goes missing after sending a bizarre text to her daughter. Debbie Collier sends her daughter, Amanda Bearden, $2,385 using Venmo and included a message that read, “They are not going to let me go love you there is a key to the house in the blue flower pot by the door.”  After receiving the message, Collier’s daughter tried to call her mom but could not get through. Collier was found the next day in a ravine, naked, her body burned.  Police tracked a rental vehicle Collier was using to a wooded area 60 miles away from the family’s Athens home.  Collier's husband told police that he last saw his wife at about 9 p.m. on Friday, September 9, as he was going to bed. The husband went to work on Saturday morning and told investigators that his wife’s vehicle was still in the driveway at that time.  The New York Post reports that the couple’s neighbor said they heard some sort of commotion going on at Collier’s home the night before she vanished. Anyone with information on the case should contact Habersham Sheriff’s Investigators Cale Garrison at 706-839-0559 or George Cason at 706-839-0560. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Renee Rockwell - Criminal Defense Attorney, Facebook: "Renee.Rockwell" Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, CarynStark.com, Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark" Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Cody Alcorn - Reporter, 11Alive WXIA (Atlanta, GA), Facebook.com/CodyAlcornNews  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A mom goes missing, then sends a bizarre text to her grown daughter stating, they're not gonna let me go. I love you, and the key to the house is under the flower pot. Her body discovered about 60 miles away from home, naked down the side of a ravine, clutching a tree, burned. What happened to Deborah Collier, a.k.a. Debbie? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Take a listen to our friends at WXIA 11. This morning, 11 Alive obtained a police report offering new details showing Athens-Clarke County Police working with Habersham County investigators on September 11th to find Collier's rented minivan, which had been pinged using satellite radio. The report says the vehicle was unlocked and no one was inside. A police officer stated he saw the same vehicle there the day before around 5 p.m. I've got an all-star panel to introduce to you but first let me go to

special guest Cody Alcorn, reporter 11 Alive WXIA. He's been on the scene from the beginning. Now we just heard your colleague Joe Joe Ripley, state that a cop stated he saw the rental vehicle, I believe it was a black Chrysler Pacifica, there before 5 p.m. the next day. I believe it was around 3.17. It was first spotted the next day. I'm only asking because I want to narrow the timeline. That's right. Yeah. The deputy said that he saw that same vehicle parked right there in that rural area of Northeast Georgia the day before September 10th, the same day she was reported missing. He saw that vehicle there about 5 p.m. And he also noted, though, he didn't think that was suspicious at the time

because he says a lot of people in that area do pull off this is a rural area uh toluva falls is in that area right it's a pull-off for a logging road sydney didn't one of the cops or another witness state they saw the vehicle there september 10 the day she was reported missing at 3 17 p.m okay that's when the text message came through. You're both right. So spotted around 5 o'clock, September 10. So that is the end of my timeline that we knew of for sure. Although I believe when she sent that bizarre text message, she was already kidnapped or dead because I don't think she sent that text message. Guys, we're talking about mother Debbie Collier,

her body found charred, but not totally, down the side of a ravine, along with a black tarp, a blue tarp, a red tote bag, and near her rented vehicle. But where did it really all start? Take a listen to our friend Dave Mack at CrimeOnline.com. On Saturday, September 10th at 3.17 p.m., Amanda Bearden got an unexpected surprise from her mother, Debbie Collier. Without any warning, Debbie used Venmo and digitally transferred $2,385 to her daughter, Amanda.

Amanda wasn't expecting any money from her mother mother and it wasn't something she normally did. But it was the text message that accompanied the money that shocked and frightened Amanda. In the text with the money, Debbie Collier wrote, they are not going to let me go. Love you. Joining me is a high-profile criminal defense attorney, Renee Rockwell. You can find her on Facebook at Renee with two E's, Renee.Rockwell. Joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, no stranger to

a courtroom. She has tried well over 100 jury trials and literally thousands of pleas. Renee, thank you for being with us. This smells. You know when you smell old fish, you know immediately don't eat it. I'm not buying this. Something's wrong. Who facing death writes

oh, by the way, the key of the house is under the flower pot. Nobody. You remember Gabby Petito, Renee Rockwell? Remember Gabby Petito? Sure do. And her fiance, Brian Laundrie, who murdered her, was sending fake texts to family members, and they knew because she referred to her grandfather or uncle by his name. That would be like me calling my father Walter Malcolm

Gray Sr. instead of saying daddy. They knew right then that was fake. Who, Renee, would write a text that says, they're not going to let me go. I'm going to die. P.S. the flower pot on the front porch with the keys under it. No. Nancy, what's interesting is that she says they are not going to let me go, comma, love you. Not I love you. The money is interesting. Did she really send the money? Did somebody else that knew how to get into her phone send the money?

Here's the question, Nancy. Where's the telephone? Where's the cell phone? Yeah, I've been wondering that too. I keep saying that the phone needs to be triangulated and tracked and not only to find the cell phone, Renee Rockwell, but to also find out if anyone close to Deborah Collier's phone was traveling with her. Now, why would she leave the house with nothing but a driver's license and a debit card and not her cell phone? That doesn't make sense. Is the cell phone back at the house? Has it been found? But you're facing death and you think to send a Venmo and the amount. Karen

Stark joining me, renowned psychologist joining us out of Manhattan. You can find her on Twitter at Karen Syke and at Karen Stark dot com. That's Karen with a C. Karen, the amount is bizarre. Wasn't it, Cody Alcorn, wasn't it twenty eight thirty five, two thousand eight hundred thirty five dollars? Two thousand three hundred eighty five dollars. You know, you better quit correcting me, young man. OK, what was it? Two thousand three hundred. Two thousand three hundred eighty five. $2,385. You know, you better quit correcting me, young man. Okay, what was it? $2,300.

$2,385. Okay. Odd number, Karen Stark. You know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of the ransom letter. The, excuse me, second ransom letter in the JonBenet Ramsey case. The first, there was a practice ransom letter. I guess it's a kidnapper just kicked back

in the living room of the Ramsey home unafraid of detection in the middle of the night. The second ransom letter stated the kidnapper killer wanted $118,000. Where did you get that number? Where? Okay, Cody, go ahead and tell me. Was that not the right number?

On the missing persons report, it says she sent the text at 317 for $2,385 through Venmo. Right. The number. The number, Cody. Why $2,385? Why not $2,500? Why not $3,000? Why $2,385, Karen Stark, in her moment of death? She's sending punctuated sentences. They're not going to let me go. Comma, I love you. The key

to the house is under the flower pot. And here's $2,385. That doesn't bother anybody. That's not a weird fact. I keep looking over at you, Jackie, but you're showing no emotion. I would not put you on a jury with that poker face. What about it, Karen Stark? There's nothing about this that makes any sense, really. None of it makes sense. No, Karen Stark, no.

I'm not going to let you get away with a generalism today. No. There is no history between the two where this mother has sent her daughter anything through Venmo. And then suddenly she sends her this strange amount of money. And she adds, love you, like, I'll see you soon. And by the way, the key is under the flower pot. That's not the last thing, God help me, that I would say to my son or daughter. Key's under the flower pot. I hope I don't go out like that, Renee Rockwell.

You and I have seen a lot of murder cases. But I don't believe those would be my last words to the loves of my life. Key's under the flower pot. Like she didn't know where the key was, Nancy. She knew where the key, I'm not worried about the 2385. That might've been all she had in the account. You're right.

2385. You're absolutely right. I don't like the way you keep saying that she said, they're not going to let me go, comma, I love you. She didn't even say, I love you. She says, love you. She didn't even say, I love you. She says, love you. She didn't send that, Nancy. I agree.

Whoever knew who had to get on her phone sent that. Okay, let's take a listen to our friend Dave Mack at Crime Online. Listen to what he says about this mysterious text message. Amanda Bearden was so shocked when her mother used Venmo to send nearly $2,400 with a cryptic text message that said, They are not going to let me go. Love you. There's a key to the house in the blue flower pod by the door. Amanda immediately called her mother's cell phone and went to voicemail. She tried it again and again with the same result.

Reaching out to Debbie's husband of nine years, Steve, he said he hadn't seen Debbie since he went to bed the night before. Frustrated and scared, Amanda and Steve reported Debbie missing around 6 p.m. Less than three hours have passed since the cryptic message. I don't like that either. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cody Alcorn, a special guest joining us, investigative reporter with 11 Alive WXIA Atlanta, who's been on this case from the very beginning, has been knocking on the doors of the neighbors. Would anybody talk to you, Cody? No one's talked to anybody that's went out to that neighborhood. And the only neighbors that have talked have been more to the paper journalist or newspaper saying that they didn't see them.

They really didn't go out and talk to anybody. They kind of just recluse into that home. Cody Alcorn, I don't know if you've seen this before yet, but there is a picture of her, Deborah, Debbie Collier, really beaten up. And the picture is from September 2020. As I recall, the picture was 2020 September. Yeah. And she is really beaten up. Now she says that she fell on pavement and hurt her face, which is entirely possible. It's just something to percolate, to just think about uh it was on her facebook thank you it was on her facebook that's right that's where we found it on her facebook no question that it's her did you know about that i actually saw that this morning uh and someone sent that to me on facebook after uh we did our report last night and again you know that's what people are sending me saying this is questionable you her posting this, saying that she planted her face on a concrete sidewalk.

So I think a lot of people are questioning that as well. And the other thing, too, a lot of people are questioning, and we did as well, is if you send your daughter a text saying you've been kidnapped at three, typically most, I know if my mom sent me that, I would call 911 immediately. But it was until three hours later they filed a missing persons report. Yeah, well, let's examine that. So the text came in 317 p.m. Saturday, September 10. I understand. Well, actually, take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. Family last heard from Debbie Collier at 3.17 p.m. Saturday, September 10th.

Less than three hours later, Debbie's husband, Steve, and daughter, Amanda, report Debbie missing. Steve tells police he last saw Debbie the night before when he went to bed. Police are skeptical until they hear that Steve and Debbie sleep in separate rooms due to Steve snoring. Steve says Debbie's rented Chrysler SUV was in the driveway when he left for work that morning. Amanda tells police Debbie left the house with nothing except her driver's license and debit card. Renee Rockwell, they sleep in separate rooms because he snores. Renee Rockwell, is there a man on this planet that does not snore? Nancy, that does not bother me at all,

the sleeping in a separate bedroom. What's disturbing is you laughing. Well, apparently nothing bothers you. What's taking so long to call the cops when she sends the message that says they're not going to let me go? I agree. Unless there's some monsters in her head that are rolling around that the daughter

is not concerned about. No, the daughter has made it very clear that mother had no, Debbie had no mental or emotional defects or instabilities. There is no way that this is suicide due to the way the body is found. I'm going to tell you about that. I'm going to let Cody Alcorn tell you about that. But this is a curiosity. Joe Scott, I'm getting to you. Hold on, man. Jody Alcorn joining us, WXIA 11 Alive. September 11 is a Sunday, right?

Yes. Okay, so where does the husband work that he gets up? He says he sees her at 9 p.m. the night before, which would be Friday night, September 9th. He goes to bed at 9 o'clock. My goodness, he must be an early riser to go to bed at 9 o'clock. He says the next morning he wakes up. He goes to work on Saturday morning, and he sees her car of her rental car she's been in a fender bender it is a black pacifica in the driveway which indicates that

she's there he didn't see her he says and he went to work then no word from her until she sends this mysterious bizarre text to her daughter and transfers her her $23.85 via Venmo. Where does he work on a Saturday morning? What does he do for a living, Cody Alcorn? That's what we've been trying to figure out, and I have not been able to figure that out personally, and I have not seen anyone with those details. I've got one thing for you that we found on LinkedIn.

Someone with his name in his area, and it's a very small population, is a loan specialist at a bank. We saw that, but a photo's not attached to it. So I'm not totally sure that's him. And I can tell you this, banks are not open on Saturday. They're barely open at 3 p.m. on Friday. All right. So I know they're not open on Saturdays. Forget that. So where is he going on Saturday morning and he doesn't talk to his wife all day long? I mean, maybe it's just me, Renee Rockwell, but I'm constantly just for the fun of it, of course, looking up David,

my husband on Life 360. You know, he says he's at work, is he? Actually, yes, he's always where he says he's going to be. And he's always doing what he says he's doing. So far, I've caught him many times being good. So where did he go? Cody? He could have gone to work on Saturday. You're Renee Rockwell piping in. Go ahead. Yeah, he could have, I guess. It's not illegal to go to work on Saturday. You're Renee Rockwell piping in. Go ahead. Yeah, he could have, I guess. It's not illegal to go to work on Saturday. I think he worked every Saturday and every Sunday when you were a prosecutor. Well, you're right about that. Hey, you know what? These are in my notes and Sidney is waving a sign at me. I just want credit that I thought of this first because it's in my type notes that I made this morning about her cell phone. I'm curious if she didn't take her cell phone with her,

from where did she send the Venmo and send the text at 3 17 p.m.? Where was she? Do we have any evidence she was forcibly taken from the home but you know what i'm burying the lead listen to this take a listen to joe ripley 11 alive the report states soon after the van was found collier's daughter later showed up to the scene emotional begging for answers in her mother's disappearance according According to the report, she told investigators her mother did not have any history of mental health issues and denied any suicidal tendencies. She also stated that her mom had a bad back and couldn't have walked far. Bad back, couldn't walk far.

Who did this to this mom? This loving mother. And more from Joe Ripley. Listen. The report indicates investigators saw a red tote bag near an uprooted tree in the woods off Georgia Highway 15, along with what they believe were the remains of a fire. They also discovered a burnt blue tarp and a naked woman's body. She was lying on her back and her abdomen appeared to be charred. That woman was later identified as Collier. To Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensic Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet

on Amazon, host of a new hit series on iHeart and at CrimeOnline.com, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. You know, the more you stay just saying the easier it is to get caught. Here's my theory. Obviously, where her body was found partially charred near a fire near a partially burned blue tarp and a red tote bag where she was grasping at a little sapling on the side of that ravine. That is not the primary crime scene. That's where she was dumped. It could be the secondary or tertiary crime scene. She was not killed there.

So where was she when she sent that text? And I think she was wrapped in that blue tarp and transported there somebody tried to burn the evidence and in their uh amateurish attempt they did not realize it's hard to burn a body to the point where it's just ashes yeah you're right right. What occurs here is that you have to literally tend the fire for a protracted period of time. Like Stephen Avery killed Teresa Hallback in Making a Murderer, him? Yeah. And you have to go on fire watches essentially what it comes down to and sit there and turn the fire,

turn the coals, continue to add fuel. You make it sound like a barbecue and I don't like it. Well, that's the reality of it. And that's what you, you got to be fully committed. This, to say the very least, is a half-hearted attempt to get rid of a body. Remember what they're saying here is that she had severe burns on her abdomen. Well, you know, when you say that, you're not talking about something that involves the entire remain. And I'm glad you brought up

the word ravine, Nancy. And this is why, because that I think is kind of being lost here. That's a big indicator to me. That means that whoever went to this, had familiarity with this area, I think, personally. And they went down into this ravine with the body to hide it, essentially. And a very half-hearted attempt. They want to get it out of sight. You know, the car is up on the road. But wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm with you and I agree with everything that you just said. But how did she get to that sapling and pull it if she were already dead when her body was disposed in the blue tarp?

Yeah, I'm not buying that she actively pulled it. Because lots of times when you, and remember, it sounds as though, and they haven't released a lot of information. It sounds as though the tarp was down there. The body may have rolled out and lots of times you can't predict what a body is going to do when you're rolling it down.

But the fire was there too. Right, it was. And Cody Alcorn, wasn't the fire there and was a fresh fire? You could tell it had been recently probably put out. Yeah, in the police report

from those responding to Louisville's police officers and the Habersham County deputies, the officer makes the note in his remarks that it was a fresh fire. It appeared that the fire was fresh. So somebody didn't just dump her down the ravine. Did you hear that? Just got Morgan what Cody Alcorn said. Nobody just threw her down the ravine.

Somebody went down there, started a fire, tried to burn her. The tarp was partially burned. There was a tote bag there. I would be about three inches of every tailpipe of Lowe's, Home Depot, Walmart, Kmart, Feed and Seed, Landscape, you name it, to get video or recollection of who bought a blue tarp. And gas cans. And that's another thing you have to think about because whoever did this would have had to have applied some kind of accelerant in order just to initiate. Bodies don't just spontaneously burn. A great shot. You can't strike a match.

They didn't rub two sticks together. No, no, they didn't. Any word on that, Cody Alcorn? Could you detect the smell of gasoline? Because if gasoline or some other exolant is used, you'll most likely be able to still smell it. If they did, they did not write it in the incident report. But I also wanted to point out, too, about the distance into this wooded area, because, again, the vehicle was parked right off Highway 15, a very rural area where people go. But they took and walked in about 50 yards.

And then the Habersham County deputy didn't see anything. So he called in a canine. They went another fourth of a mile into the woods. Oh, so it was really back in the woods yeah yeah they waited about nancy and and wait didn't she have a back problem yes good point karen stark i guarantee you she didn't walk back there on a nature hike all of her clothes are missing no remnant of her clothing is found in the fire pit that we know of, nor in her car. I was distracted by a very odd question. Could you put that up, Sydney? Okay, who should I blame that question on,

Jackie or Sydney? What's the question again? The sapling that was on her chest, was it being held like death flowers? Okay, I hate to even repeat that, but just for the sake of, you know, you trying. Was the sapling held on her chest like death flowers? I thought she was gripping a sapling, Jody Alcorn. So on all of these reports, there's three reports from those officers. And they are quoted saying grasping a small tree with her right hand. Right hand. And the other one says grasping a small tree with her right hand. So all three officers say grasping with her right hand. Right hand. The other one says grasping a small tree with her right hand. So all three officers

say grasping with her right hand. I don't know where you got a wreath on her chest like death flowers. I've never even heard the phrase death flowers. Is that something you came up with? No. Because I'm going to see that over your head every time I look at her. Look at you. Cody Alcorn

joining us from 11 Alive. Joe Scott, you were jumping in. Hey, Joe Scott, take a listen to this. Our cut 11. Why would Debbie Collier have left her home in Athens? Why would she have gone to Habersham County 60 miles from home? Debbie Collier had worked for years for a realty business in Athens-Clarke County. She was the front office manager. No one there was available to speak about her. So far, Debbie Collier's family members have declined to respond to interview requests about her. As investigators work to uncover who might have been

threatening her, why she ended up here, and who killed her, and why. Who was threatening her? She's a front office receptionist. I don't think she has any mob or gang ties. What threat, Cody? Okay, Karen, jump in.

I have a question for Joe Scott. I don't understand, if she were already dead, how she could clasp in her right hand. Exactly. Is that possible? Yeah, I'm right here. I don't know that she could. That's one of my points. If people are in a fevered pitch in order to get rid of a body, put as much distance as they can.

They're going to dump the body wherever they possibly can. And sometimes they will roll them. You'll have bodies that will get hung up and brush. Maybe they started the fire right there the problem is this at this point in time we don't know where this burn mark is on the ground in relation to the body and also in relation to to the tarp itself there's a spatial relationship that's going on here i think what he's trying to say in regular people talk is where was the dead body in relation to the fire in relation to everything yeah but we know the tarp and the body were partially burned. Here's another thing. Renee Rockwell joining me, high-profile defense attorney in the Atlanta jurisdiction.

Renee, clearly, this is not just a dump site because somebody took her all the way there. You know she couldn't walk that far because of a back ailment. All her clothes are missing, but we have no indication of a rape, which means somebody stripped her but didn't rape her. We don't know that yet, Nancy. Unless they're keeping that to their vest. Exactly. We don't know that yet. But somebody took her all the way back.

How far back in the woods was it, Cody Alcorn? More than a fourth of a mile. That's a long way to drag a body. With a body. All the way back there to burn her. They weren't just going to dump her. They were going to get rid of the evidence, Renee. I don't think that it was just a dump.

It looks to me like the scene was staged if they put a sapling in her hand. Good job. Nancy, one other thing about this area where she is in Habersham County, this ain't flat land. This is rolling. You're talking, you're literally in the foothills of Appalachia right there. Well, that's the beginning of the Appalachian Trail. Yeah, it is. They talk about this area in the Georgia State Anthem, up in the hills of Habersham, down to the valleys of Glen, Habersham, I mean the state poem. Habersham is where the Appalachian Mountains begin.

So you're right. And your point is? My point is, is that whoever did this is strong and robust. You're not going to have some kind of diminutive person that's going to take this woman. And I don't care about her size. All right. Because you've also got to take all of the other items out there to this location as well. You're talking about tarps, all these other things. And we're supposing that there is some type of accelerant that's being toted along this trail as well. Had to be at night. Don't you as well. Had to be at night.

Don't you agree it had to be at night? I would think so. Because who's going to make multiple trips back and forth to the SUV, which is pristine, by the way, nothing in the car, probative unless we're going to get something from the processing of the scene. Somebody would have to go back and forth with the body, the gas, everything they need to make a fire, the tote bag, the tarp. I mean, I would not risk hauling that out of the back of an SUV.

Would you? No. And that brings me to my next point. There's probably obviously more than one vehicle involved in this as well. Well, I don't know about that. And I think that that's, that well, you know, if they don't have any other kind of evidence that they're, I don't think they're giving us everything at this point.

There's going to be trace evidence in that van, and it's going to be linked back to somebody. Was somebody wearing gloves in the van? Was somebody absent any kind of touch DNA that they might have dropped off of the body relative to skin cells? I don't think that they fully processed it at this point. There were either two occupants in that van, possibly even three, or there was an additional vehicle going out there.

Okay, so you want me to think, Joe Scott, that up to three people kidnapped this lady from her home, kill her for what? And there's no burglary. There's no robbery. So far we know of no rape, take her body, strip her down. I wonder if they stripped her down because they didn't want her clothing to identify her and then try to burn her body and fail miserably.

All she's got is a char mark on her abdomen. That's a really bad job. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Back to Cody Alcorn joining us. Let's throw another wrench in the works. Jody Alcorn, 11 and alive. The husband says he saw her the night before at 9 p.m. when he goes to sleep. Her SUV, rented SUV, was in the driveway the next morning when he went to work on Saturday,

but he didn't see her. Doesn't that directly conflict with what the neighbors say about hearing an argument? That's true. There is a New York Post article that says that they heard that night yelling from that home. A female voice, right? Yes, correct. They also said that they heard yelling on weekends and on evenings when visitors would be there and that it was a young woman's voice i don't know how they could differentiate between that but that's what they're saying in any event we have no reason to suspect the neighbors of lying

so that doesn't really jive with what the husband is saying. Is that correct, Cody? According to this missing persons report, I mean, those are conflicting because it does say that, you know, he went to bed around nine. They slept in different bedrooms at the last time he saw her. He didn't check on her the next day. Okay, guys, we know that the location of the vehicle was found because the Sirius XM in the rental car can be traced. Little known fact. Take a listen to our cut eight, our friend Jennifer Bellamy. Right now, investigators are trying to figure out what happened after a woman was found dead near Tallulah Falls in North Georgia. On Sunday, a Sirius XM representative called Habersham County authorities about a vehicle

belonging to a missing person pinging its location in Clarksville. Habersham County authorities about a vehicle belonging to a missing person pinging its location in Clarksville. Habersham County deputies and canines started searching for the driver. They found a red tote bag and a partially burned blue tarp before finding the woman's body down an embankment. In the last couple of hours, authorities have confirmed the victim is Deborah Collier from Athens. Anyone with information is asked to please contact police. I want to talk about the fact that the husband didn't see her the morning he left, and more important, the fact that police and sheriffs in that jurisdiction are saying that they do not suspect a kidnap or a suicide. Well, obviously, it's not a suicide.

But they don't suspect a kidnap. Do I have that right, Cody Alcorn? That's correct. They came out late yesterday afternoon, and the chief deputy who was over this case put that in black and white writing and said that they do not believe this is related. There's no evidence supporting it was a kidnapping or that this was a suicide. That tells me a lot. If the sheriff is stating that in the legal sense of the word, Renee Rockwell,

that means she was not taken from her home forcibly, right? They're saying that they believe that it did not happen there obviously and they're saying that um they don't think that it had anything to do with somebody transporting her before her death so where does that tell you it happened at the home agree or disagree well that's what it's looking like but you, you know, he's given statements. Her husband has given statements. So the minute that they find any conflicting information, then he's going to, you know, he's going to have a warrant on him. And you know what else is interesting, Nancy? There's two separate spots that this case can be prosecuted, in Habersham and in her own home county.

What about it? Way in, Joe Scott Morgan. The sheriff is saying it wasn't a kidnap. Does that mean she left voluntarily and just, what, fell down the ravine and rolled into a fire? Yeah, that ain't happening. And, you know, when you start to, when an official like this begins to exclude possibilities, that gives you an indication they're kind of showing their cards a little bit that they have some kind of information relative to what they're thinking happened at that particular time because listen she wasn't kidnapped and that means you're

transporting a dead body that's the only that's i don't know for me logically that's that's really the only point you can come to so So you have to determine at what location. And also very important here, and I'd ask Cody to kind of verify this as well. They haven't released the cause of death. The only trauma that we've really heard about thus far is this burning. We don't know cause of death. What about it, Cody Alcorn? That's been an issue with us in the newsroom trying to get that detail.

But in the same sense that they released the details yesterday, they also said the coroner's office did take possession, transported her body to the GBI crime lab, which is our state bureau of investigation. And as of yesterday, 10 days later, no report regarding findings of the autopsy. So I think they're just withholding that information. I think they know they're just not giving it to us. Definitely. We're getting a little more information. Take a listen to our friend Zach Summers, CBS 46. Somebody took my whole world from me. Debbie's daughter, Amanda, and her stepfather, Stephen, reported her mother missing on the

evening of September 10th. Stephen said he'd seen his wife the night before and that her rental was still in the driveway when he left for work that morning. I started going to all the different places that I thought she would go, like Walmart, Ulta. I mean, I drove around for at least two hours. That tells me, Cody Alcorn, that the daughter went looking for the mother and couldn't find her. That's what that appears to be. And again, you know, a lot of people who have reached out to us have said, if someone said, hey, your mom's been kidnapped, you immediately go to police. I did reach out to her this morning for a cameo on this show. And I've not heard back from her because again, there's a lot of questions about that timeline.

Guys, we're hearing more about the evening before, that the daughter had dinner with the mother, that they left in separate cars. You heard our cut 12. Let's take another listen to our cut 14. She was a beautiful, kind, giving giving woman and she didn't deserve any of this. Amanda says the last time she saw her mom was Friday night. They ate dinner, ran some errands and went home separately. She had this message for her mother's killer. I just want them to rot in hell. I do, sir. I mean, it's not going to take my pain away.

I know it's not. But I want justice for my mom. In my mind, that explains the delay that we were discussing earlier. I believe it was you, Karen Stark, why the daughter waited three hours. And Cody Alcorn, was it the daughter or the husband, her stepfather, that reported Deborah missing? On the missing persons report from Athens-Clarke County Police, it lists Stephen as the reporting person and Amanda listed as other. So it appears he is the one. As being there.

Yes. Okay. So she goes looking, Karen Stark, for her mother. She goes looking for her mother. She goes looking for her mother. But, you know, when I think about it, and I think you can relate to this, Nancy, if you get such a strange text message like that, you'd go looking for your mother, you would immediately call the police. I agree. I agree with you, Karen Stark. Renee, quickly.

Too early. We've got to see all the phones. We've got to ping all the phones. And we've got to see if he's committed to any kind of position in the husband. Joe Scott, final thought? Yeah, absolutely. Electronics are going to be the key in this, Nancy. That Venmo deposit, that's going to play really big in this.

I want to know where she was. Was that cell phone in the home when that text was sent? Cody Alcorn with us, keeping us updated on the very latest. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.