Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - MISSING MOM'S SHOES, SOCKS, JACKET FOUND: WHERE'S FLORENCE? | Featuring "Up and Vanished" Host Payne Lindsey

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

"Up and Vanished" host Payne Lindsey joins the program to discuss the focus of "Up and Vanished: In The Midnight Sun" - The Disappearance of Florence Okpealuk.  Thirty-three-year-old Florence Okpealuk was last seen on West Beach in Nome, Alaska. When Blaire could not reach her sister, she posted on Facebook, asking if anyone had seen Florence, and began searching around town. Florence had not been to work or the grocery store, and neither her ex nor her friends had seen or heard from her. Blaire felt she had exhausted all leads when Naomi, a bartender at Board and Trade, messaged her. Naomi said she last saw Florence on her birthday, but a man at the bar claimed he saw Florence on West Beach with a miner the night she did not come home. Blaire and several family members canvassed West Beach, asking anyone willing to talk if they had seen Florence. Eventually, a man told Blaire he saw Florence leaving a nearby tent around 4 p.m. He asked Blaire to wait while he rummaged inside his tent, then returned with Florence’s socks, shoes, and jacket. Bewildered, Blaire asked where Florence was and why he had her belongings. The man became quiet but insisted he did not bring Florence to West Beach and claimed he found her belongings outside his tent. An older man in the neighboring tent offered a different account. He said he saw Florence with his neighbor the night before, riding down the beach on an ATV. The ATV did not return until the next morning, but his neighbor was the only rider. Blaire reported Florence missing at 6:15 p.m. that evening, two days after she last saw her sister. Payne Lindsey, host of the "Up and Vanished" podcast, traveled to Nome to investigate Florence’s disappearance. Lindsey contacted Naomi, the bartender from Board and Trade, who received a tip from a patron that Florence was last seen on West Beach. Naomi said the man who reportedly saw Florence worked as a freelance gold miner and also drove a taxi for Checkers Cabs. He lived in a tent on West Beach and was known locally as “Oregon John. Joining Nancy Grace today: Deilah Johnson -  friend of Florence, Tribal Resources Director for the Village of Solomon, author of “One of Our Own” available at www.villageofsolomon.org; Facebook: Deilahrj; IG: @deilah_rex; TikTok: @deilahsolomonenwi Randolph Rice - Former Prosecutor and Current Criminal Defense & Civil Attorney at Rice, Murtha, Psoras, website: ricelawmd.com, IG, FB, X: @ricelawmd  Angela Arnold  - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA, AngelaArnoldMD.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital, Voted My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice of  2022, 2023 and 2024 Chris McDonough - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective,  Worked over 300 Homicides in 25 year career, Trained the first Native American Homicide Task Force; & Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room." Website: www.coldcasefoundation.org/chris-mcdonough  Payne Lindsey  - Podcast Host & Executive Producer of “Up and Vanished,” a true crime podcast about missing persons. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A missing mom's shoes, socks, and jacket found. But where's Florence? Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Missing in Alaska, a young mom vanishes in the middle of the day, her family on a restless quest for answers. Where is missing mom

of Florence? Her disappearance haunting locals. Listen, we load ourselves aboard and take off. Nome is one of those unforgettable spots in history it sits along the beach of the bering sea just under the arctic circle there's a lot of red flags waving and they're not choosing to recognize that red flags waving is certainly an understatement that That's where our friend Payne Lindsay's podcast Up and Vanish the Midnight Sun. How did the whole thing start? Listen. Just a few days after her 33rd birthday, Florence goes to see her sister Blair at work. It isn't unusual that Flo ignores Blair for a few hours after their conversation, but concern grows when Blair learns Florence didn't come home that night. Over the next two days, Blair texts and calls Florence dozens of times, but all of them go unanswered.

Joining me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know regarding Florence's disappearance. But first, straight out to our friend Payne Lindsey, executive producer of Up and Vanished. I've got a question. Okay. When Florence first goes missing, the sister is the one that raised the alarm. She said it was very uncommon for Florence to ignore her calls and texts. Is that true?

That's very true. Yeah, she just fell off the map completely, and that was odd. Joining us is D'Isla Johnson, a very close friend of Florence's. When the sister says how unusual it was for Florence to ignore calls and texts, did you find that to be true as well? Initially, not entirely. I kind of thought maybe her phone had died. But, you know, after several days, then it was a deep, true concern. D'Ila Johnson joining us, a very close friend of Florence. D'Ila, I'm trying to get a handle on Florence's personality. Now she's a mother. Would she often just vanish for days on end? I mean, so often, uh, D'Ila, I have heard police tell anguished family and friends, Oh, she's out

with her boyfriend or her new boyfriend. There's not one, or she just wants some alone time away from her children. From what I know of Florence, I find that very hard to believe. Was that her pattern? Would she go off for alone time? No. But growing up in the Nome geographic location, I would say that, you know, sometimes people will go out camping and you don't have reliable connection to communicate with people that maybe haven't heard from you in a day.

It's not uncommon for people to maybe kind of be off grid, especially during that time of year. It's kind of like the end of the summer. So people want to try to get out of town as much as they can. So at first it wasn't super alarming, but I know that a lot of people, mostly the police department, would want to just kind of brush it off like it's no big deal. So, Diala, have you ever known Florence to go camping or hiking ever and leave her children behind where nobody knew how to reach her? No. I mean, she would have given someone a heads up.

This isn't routine for her to just disappear the way that this had occurred. So, DeIsla, when you state that it wouldn't be uncommon for people to go hiking or camping, actually, it would be uncommon for Florence to go hiking or camping without her children or leave at the very least, leaving them with no idea where their mother was. How old are the children? May I ask, Deilah? She has one daughter who is about to be 11. So, Deilah, you're referring to her daughter, Alethea.

Did you ever know of a single time, even once, when Florence left Alethea without knowing where she was, not there to take care of her, and people had to come over and get the daughter? No. Never. of her and people had to come over and get the daughter. No, never. So Payne Lindsey joining me, the star of Up and Vanished. Payne, I'm trying to get a handle on the beginning of the timeline, because as you know, I like to start all investigations with that. It could be from

the last time a text was received, if that's truly a text from the victim. Or in the O.J. Simpson case, it could be where the neighbors hear the dog wailing in the middle of the night when Nicole Brown was murdered. So timelines are very tricky. But it seems like all we've got to go on here, Payne, is when the sister realized after a period of time that Florence wasn't responding. Would you agree that's where we start the timeline? Yeah, the timeline is muddy because it took several days to realize that she's not responding. And then days have gone by from likely the moment that she went missing. Joining me is the director of the Cold Case Foundation and more importantly, former homicide detective who has worked over 300 homicides.

By the way, he trained the very first Native American Homicide Task Force. He is the star of the YouTube channel, The Interview Room. Chris McDonough, thank you for being with us. Explain in simple terms why establishing the inception of the timeline is so important in cracking a missing person or homicide case. You know, Nancy, so what we would call that is an initial victimology. So what we want to do is kind of create this fact

pattern in relationship to her life. And we know for a fact that she has a daughter at the time who is very young. And we can take a look at that timeline of how she handled that child and if there were any anomalies while raising the girl. And then we get to that muddy timeline that you're talking about. Chris McDonough, I said in simple terms, no offense. I mean, we got to get out of inside ball and focus on why the timeline is so important. I see it like this. And tell me if I'm wrong. If I could place her alive on a certain day, then I'm not looking at who she was with the day before or the week before. I need to know where she was last seen, who she was with, where she was going. I need to find

pings on her phone starting then. That's where you start the investigation. Who was she with? What was she doing? Was she in her car, somebody else's car? You can't spin your wheels in the wrong timeline. Do you agree with that much? Oh, yeah, I agree 100% with everything you just said, because that's the starting point that you can move forward. And quite frankly, you can go backwards as well. Take a listen to Crime Online investigator Sydney Sumner. Unable to get in touch with their sister, Blair posts to Facebook asking if anyone's seen Florence and starts looking around town. Florence hasn't been to work or the grocery store and neither Alethea's father or her friends have seen or heard from her. Blair feels like she's exhausted all of her leads when Naomi, a bartender

at Borden Trade, messages Blair. Naomi says she last saw Florence on her birthday, but that a man in the bar says he saw Florence on West Beach with a minor the night she didn't come home. Let's talk about the bar. Joining me, and you know him well, our friend Payne Lindsey, star of Up and Vanished, who has focused on the disappearance of Florence. Tell me about the bar. Why do so many of our cases start at a bar, Payne? It sure does seem like it.

In Nome, this is one of the few gathering places. Nome is not a huge place, but this bar is super old. It's been there a long time and it's right there on Front Street, right near the water, right downtown, a popular spot for locals to go and even tourists to go. And she was seen there. And we know that because I went myself with my team and I talked to patrons. I also talked to the bartender who works there. And she recalls seeing her and people have multiple witnesses have placed her having been there before leaving. That night, can you tell me, Payne, was she there to meet a friend? Was she there with girlfriends? So many things can go wrong at a bar. What do we know about what occurred at the bar? Did anyone notice anything at all

out of the ordinary? Having talked to Florence's sister, it seemed like during the time of her disappearance, when she would have been at this bar, she was kind of going through her own personal life struggles and was, you know, expressing that to other people around her friends, family. And she was there by herself. But we know that she was also surrounded by other individuals, all men who are gold miners, who are essentially traveling through and they go in and they go out and aren't from Nome, but are there for. Oh, no, Payne. You're telling me they're transients?

Absolutely. Okay. You're giving me a chill down my spine yet again, Payne. You're famous for giving people chills down their spines. Because I'm thinking of a case that you and I have both covered out of Florida. Jennifer Kessie. Because Kessie goes missing. You go into her place. The parents go into her place the next day when she doesn't answer calls,

just like in this case, they find where her clothes are laid out to go to work the following morning. The shower's actually still damp. No sign of Jennifer. Where do transients fit into this? You know where? Because surrounding her condo was a lot of development down in Florida and a lot of transients building the condos. I mean, when they're gone, they're gone. Nobody has their name, their LKA, last known address. It's just bye. Could they be witnesses? Could they be perpetrators? They could be either of those. So you're telling me many people in the bar that night are a male and don't fight with me about this pain. We all know that the perp, if there is one, is likely a male statistically.

Don't start with women can kidnap and murder too. I know that, but I'm telling you that's not what happened. So she's at a bar pain. According to you, you've been to the bar that night. She's surrounded by a lot of guys and many of them are transient minors. Is that right? That's a recipe for disaster pain, Lindsay. That's absolutely correct. And it was a recipe for disaster because that's the last known place. Hey, Payne, when you went in the bar, tell me about the bar. What's it like? I mean, honestly, it's a super small place. It's old. It's dusty. You got you have some locals in there who seem like they spend, you know, half their days in there.

You have a couple random people who are visiting and it seems like a consistent bar clientele that circles in and out. I like that part because, yeah, that means if you see the same people like Cheers, right? Yes. You know, everybody and they would know her and they could give me some leads, right? You'd think so, yeah. Unless that person was harboring a secret. You know, Payne, I've come to be very suspicious when you say things like you'd think so. Okay. Who is Florence?

Let's look at that. Who is Florence? Can looking at her and her standard routine, her personality even, give me a clue? Listen. Florence Flo Akpialuk is the youngest of seven siblings raised in the small village of Wales, Alaska. Florence learns to practice subsistence just as her Inupiat ancestors lived off the land. But when Florence learns she is expecting a baby girl, she decides to move about 100 miles south to the larger city of Nome so her daughter has better access to health care and education. Her daughter, her whole world, she's even willing to move 100 miles away for a better life for her daughter. What more do we know? Florence gets a job working in the hospital with

Norton Sound Health Corporation and is a wonderful mother to Alithea, now six years old. Florence is well-known and well-liked in Nome and becomes close with siblings that live in Nome, a brother and a sister, Blair, who is now expecting a baby of her own. Florence has plenty of friends to celebrate with her for her birthday, stopping in at Board of Trade, one of the oldest bars in town. Authorities on a desperate mission to find a missing Alaskan mom as the FBI joins the search. Blair reports Florence missing at 6.15 p.m. that evening, two days after she last saw her sister.

Two days after the report, searches begin for the young mom. Nome PD and dozens of volunteers go up and down West Beach searching for any sign of Florence. FBI agents and canine units eventually join the search, and one more piece of Florence's clothing is discovered, but there's no other leads on Florence Okpialuk. Socks and shoes left behind of a missing mom, but where is Florence? You may be sitting down, but you may need to lay down for what you're about to hear, the working theory of the local PD. Brace yourself. Listen. While there are many theories on what happened to Florence Akpialuk, known PD has released very few details on their investigation. Their only official theory is a bear attack and they simply haven't found the body.

The public has very little trust in the department, which struggles to remain staffed. Chief William Crockett agrees to an interview with Payne Lindsey, but isn't in the office at the agreed upon time, then fails to return any calls afterwards. The FBI assisted with searches shortly after Florence's disappearance, but agents now direct anyone looking for information on her case Okay, let me understand this.

The working theory is that Florence died of a bear attack? Well, let me go straight out to a veteran trial lawyer. Randolph Rice joining us, former prosecutor, current criminal defense attorney, no stranger to a courtroom. And what that means is he knows evidence. Really, Randolph? So you're going to defend a case like this. And the theory is what? That mommy took off her socks before the bear ate her. Yeah, this looks like the known police department's attempt to sort of push this under the rug

because they can't seem to put together the evidence that they need to ultimately say what happened to Florence. You know, nobody leaves the scene with their socks and their shoes and their clothes. It just doesn't make sense, which leans to the probability that this was foul play. And therefore, the known police department needs to follow that foul play trail of evidence. Somebody needs to put a fire under their rear end. Angela Arnold, excuse me, Dr. Angela Arnold joining us. Renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction whose expertise is focusing on the mental and emotional welfare of women. Dr. Arnold, do you ever get tired of police investigators, Ellie in general, law enforcement, and I am former law enforcement.

Okay. So this is a bitter pill for me to swallow. When a woman goes missing, they say, oh, she's having alone time. She's with her whoever. You can fill in the blank. Ex, boyfriend, lover. What? Hold up in some hotel having a great time while her daughter's sitting at home trying to find something to eat.

But here, they really take the cake, Dr. Angela. They say a bear ate her. I mean, if I were her family, I would want to go burn down the police department. A bear? Yeah. And, you know, Nancy, in their wasting time, and everybody knows how important those first minutes and days are in finding someone that has gone missing. Why don't they, if that's all they have to offer to the situation, then they just need to keep their mouth shut. Because, Nancy, that is the least helpful thing that anyone could have said in this. Okay?

So now this poor woman has been missing. Any kind of evidence is gone. And all the police can come up with. By the minute. Yes. The evidence is evaporating. Payne Lindsay, you heard what Dr. Angela Arnold had to say. Payne, is this really a working theory?

No wonder the sheriff hid. What was he under his desk when you went to interview him? He was back there hiding somewhere. I mean, I just wish that they would shoot me straight. The job of just talking about this case with a journalist isn't that complicated. But they made it complicated because I think that they're embarrassed. So Payne, guys, if you don't know Payne Lindsey, you've got to listen to his podcast, Up and Vanished. He was incredible on the Tara Grinstead case.

And here's his new one, In the Midnight Sun, referring to, of course, this case in Nome. Payne, how can they say with a straight face? A bear did it. Well, they don't say it with a straight face. They hide their face, actually. If you try to ask them that question in person, they'll say, yeah, I'll meet you tomorrow. And then they'll dodge you. I don't know how anyone could say that with a straight

face. Bears don't eat jeans and shoes and cell phones and stuff like that. That's ridiculous. Payne, I'm sorry I have to correct you on air, but this was a very picky bear. He took off her shoes and socks. He didn't eat them. Right. I mean, how they can say this with a straight face, of course, as Payne Lindsay accurately points out, they don't say it with a straight face. They hide when they say things like a bear ate her. D'Ila Johnson joining us, a very dear friend of Florence's. D'Ila, did you hear this wacky, zany theory that a bear ate her? Unfortunately, I hear that as a resolution to several missing people because it seems as though that's a really easy way to put a resolution on any missing person in our

area. Well, Deilah Johnson is exactly correct. A bear ate fill in the blank seems to be the go-to for local law enforcement. This would be laughable if a mother wasn't missing. And I suspect very strongly that she has been murdered. does the name Joseph Balderas ring a bell? If not, it will now. Listen. Joseph Balderas works in Nome as a law clerk and is an avid outdoorsman who loves hiking, running, and fishing out in the country.

Joseph always responds to his fiancée Megan's texts as quickly as possible, but Saturday morning, Joseph stops answering her. When Joseph doesn't show up for work Monday morning, his family knows something is seriously wrong. That afternoon, Joseph's truck is found backed into a pullout 44 miles from town. Searches turn up nothing, and Joseph's roommate is caught lying to police about his whereabouts Friday and Saturday night, but authorities chalk his disappearance up to a bear attack. Okay, apparently the bear can drive because the bear backed the victim's vehicle into a pullout.

And there's more. Take a listen to our friends at KTVF. A search dog unit alerted to Balderas sent about a mile down the road from his truck, but lost the trail soon after. Search pilots reported a noticeable amount of bear activity in the area, but his family has suggested that they suspect foul play. Payne, help me. How can this stand? How can one case after the next be attributed to, quote, bear activity. There's no evidence. You recall, you and I have discussed many, many times the case of Suzanne Morphew, where it's claimed that a wild animal dragged her off. There's no sign of animal activity. There's no blood. There's no drag marks, which you would find if this had happened.

There's no half-eaten carcass. There are no bones. There's no other clothing. Nothing to suggest that happened in any of the three cases we're talking about right now, specifically with Florence. It's just the easy cop-out response. I mean, the thing is, like you said, if this is their theory, usually a theory is backed by some sort of information that supports that. I would entertain the bear theory if there was any evidence at all that suggested that, but there isn't. There's nothing. So that's just a blanket excuse answer for basically, in other words, I don't know or we screwed up.

Florence Akpialuk last seen leaving a tent on Alaska's West Beach, her family desperate for answers. Leaving a tent on the beach. Well, that's odd because witnesses say she was last seen at a bar or was she with a bear? Listen. Payne Lindsey, host of the Up and Vanish podcast, travels to Nome to investigate Florence's disappearance. Lindsey gets in contact with Naomi, the bartender from Board and Trade, who got the tip from a patron that Florence was last seen on West Beach. Naomi says the man came to Nome as a freelance gold miner, but also drove a taxi in town for Checkers Cabs. The man resided in a tent on West Beach. Naomi only knew him as Oregon

John. To a very dear friend of Florence's, D'Ila Johnson, author of One on One. D'Ila, is that common that the transient miners that come to Nome live in tent villages? Yes, the entire summer. The population of Nome, Alaska fluctuates probably 2,000 during the summer so that people think that they're going to Nome to get rich. Okay, that's not helpful at all. D'Ila, I'm not saying it's not true. to know him to get rich. Okay. That's not helpful at all. D.I. Law, I'm not saying it's not true. I know it to be true, what you just said. But to Chris McDonough, joining me, veteran homicide detective, not helpful at all that

there is an entire transient village and that's not the first place police went or sheriffs went. And everyone else in that bar, according to Payne Lindsay, is likely a local except for the transients. OK, so when you throw into a situation, Chris McDonough, one variable and that being transients at the bar that night, that's where you go. The rest of the world doesn't understand that this is normal for no and other mining areas. People flood in for a mining season and then they disappear. Just like transients disappeared from the Jennifer Kessie scene. They're there for the work and then

they leave. And once they leave, you'll never find them again. Yeah, absolutely. And that point of contact, i.e. where these old transients go, i.e. the bar potentially. But more importantly, one of the things I want to point out, Nancy, that you mentioned is there's a witness that says, you know, well, she was last seen on the beach with a with a minor coming out of a tent. Well, that individual just put themselves at the beach watching her come out of a tent. So that's a huge red flag. If it's the same guy, there you go. Let's start from there. Man, you are so right. Payne Lindsey joining me,

host of Up and Vanished, who has been investigating Florence's disappearance, even traveling to Nome to find out what he could and trying to confront local LA who basically hid from him. So the bartender, the female bartender, Naomi, at the board and trade gets a tip that Florence last seen on West Beach. What else did she learn, Payne? She learned that she was with a specific individual who she knew by a nickname, a pseudonym, Oregon John was his name. What can you tell me about clothing, about Florence's clothing being found? So Oregon John was a miner, like several others who were camped out on this area of West Beach. And at nighttime, they would kind of have parties and stuff there. And they were all transient

people. Flo's items, her personal items, her clothing was found outside of this man's tent. And when someone goes missing and you have her things in your possession, it would be common sense to ask this person what the hell happened. But that was never done in an official capacity in this case. Payne, when you say her items, are you talking about the socks and shoes we've heard about? Are you talking about her bra and underwear? What was found? There's mixed conflicting reports of that because initially it was Flo's family who was out there searching. And they're the ones who discovered that any of her items at all were in this man's

possession but he willingly gave it over to the police and to the family the fact that he has anything of hers at all is strange because that's the last place she was why would she not leave with her clothes on bla Blair and several family members canvass West Beach, asking anyone who will talk to them about Florence. Eventually, a man says he saw Florence leaving a nearby tent around 4 p.m. The man asks Blair to wait a moment and rummages around inside his tent. He returns with Florence's socks, shoes, and jacket. Bewildered, Blair asks where Florence is and why he has her things. The man seems to clam up, but insists he did not bring Florence to West Beach,

and he found her belongings outside his tent. Where is Florence Akpialuk, the mom last seen leaving a gold miner's tent before vanishing into the Alaskan wilderness. At the bar, on the beach, in a tent, then we hear disturbing reports about a very eerie phone call made by Florence that night. Listen. Nome PD also follows up with the man who gave Blair some of Florence's clothing. The man gives cops the same story of finding her belongings outside his tent and turns over one more item, Florence's cell phone. Law enforcement never publicly divulges if anything found on the phone provided new leads, but according to a local with friends on the search and rescue team, Florence made a

troubling call to a friend that night, saying, quote, I'm in the bushes with some people. They're passing something around and I don't feel safe. With me, close friend of Florence's, her confidant, Deilah Johnson, author of One of Our Own. Deilah, thank you for being with us. What do you know about this phone call made by Florence? That it's terrifying, that it does kind of provide more than just speculation on what maybe had occurred that evening. To Payne Lindsey, who has been investigating Florence's disappearance. Payne, what do we know about the call? Who did she call and how do you decipher what she said? She was clearly scared. She was in a state of distress and she names being with multiple individuals.

Now, I know these people's names. I have not publicly stated all of them because some of them I'm still talking to, but collectively here, you have a group of men who were the last people to see Florence alive, and then she simply vanishes. These people need to be questioned by law enforcement. The fact that they haven't been is ridiculous. It's like the Tara Grinstead case all over again. What can you tell me about another conflicting story, Payne? A story that another witness states that Florence was with his neighbor the night before, driving on the beach on an ATV, all-terrain vehicle. And then the witness sees the neighbor returning and Florence wasn't there.

It was just the neighbor. Bottom line is you can sit here and look at all the different conflicting stories and theories. When you whittle it all down, which I've done my best to do here, what stays true is that she was at the bar, then she left and went to West Beach, no matter how she got there. And she has never been seen since then. Do you believe those witnesses, Payne? I believe that the timing of everything may not be perfect, right? I think that the bottom line is she was there. There's physical evidence that she was there.

Her stuff is there. So we know for a fact that she was there. There's physical evidence that she was there. Her stuff is there. So we know for a fact that she was there and people saw her. Correct. And it was outside of a specific tent, not just any tent. We know whose tent it was. Why do you have her stuff? I don't have any missing person's stuff outside of my tent. To make matters even more heartbreaking,

in addition to what Payne Lindsey accurately points out, that none of these witnesses have been questioned, much less under oath, many of them gone, dispersed at the end of the season, the family, they're the ones that are out searching for Florence. Listen. After two weeks with no leads from West Beach,

law enforcement agencies suspend their searches. Florence's family returns to beach every day for eight months, refusing to give up on Florence, but felt that someone didn't want them searching there. Family members have several videos of two men in a black truck following them as they search along the beach. In one incident, the passenger sticks a gun out of the window and fires shots in the air. Known PD seems to brush off their concerns and ask the family to back off and let them do their job.

Payne Lindsey, in addition to the time that the local LE, I guess the sheriff, didn't show up for an interview, it's an eerie reminder for me. The Natalie Holloway case, Beth Twitty and I went back, as you know, to Aruba to try to scare up some more leads. And it was there. We drove by a structure pane and she said, yeah, I sat in there for five hours waiting to speak to the chief of police. They told me he was at the barbershop. They told me this. They told me that after five hours, he walks out, not realizing she's still sitting there rubbing his stomach because they had just brought him food. So he wouldn't have to see her. He ate in his office and then ran into her. I mean, that sounds like

what is what's happening now with them ducking you. As a matter of fact, you're not the only one he's ducking. Listen, Payne. Months into the search for Florence Okpialuk, her best friend Da'ilah and sister Blair hold a march for missing and murdered indigenous people through downtown Nome, ending in a local gymnasium for several speakers to highlight their loved ones. While Blair speaks, expressing concern for the lack of police investigation through heart-wrenching sobs, the Nome PD chief makes an appearance, shocking the crowd. But the chief isn't there for the event. He calmly walks past the crowd to the gym equipment for his workout. Deanna Johnson, tell me what happened.

That was a, I mean, when we gather to support and honor any MMIWG or MMIP individual as native, you know, we, it's a, it's already a challenging time because we are having to honor those that aren't with us anymore. And a lot of the time there's a lot of systemic injustice. But when we were specifically honoring Jane Florence Akpialik, and then we also noticed that the chief is there for a workout, that was also just heart-wrenching for us because we would love to have the entire community, all law enforcement search and rescue, all community leaders, all people within the community come together because we all it's an isolated area. support one another, I think there would be better relationships and the lack of trust probably wouldn't be such a stain on the community members. I'm just having a horrible time understanding the sheriff while family and friends are out there bringing awareness to Florence's disappearance.

He walks up like he's going to the vigil and then just keeps walking and goes to the gym to work out. I mean, come on, bro. Even if giving him the benefit of the doubt, that is just the biggest lack of awareness I've ever seen. Clearly, you do not care about this case. Clearly, if you didn't know this was happening, you're not actively investigating it. All that tells me is that hand over the damn case file then, because you're not doing anything about it. And you're comfortable being rude in public and sending this strange message to people who are fighting for justice right here out in the open in your own town. Take a listen to Up and Vanished, The Midnight Sun.

There we go. You took a beautiful person from this earth. Hope you feel horrible and you feel guilty. I love you. It's okay. There's actual facts that need to be run to ground, that need to be looked into because they're very suspicious. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Who is this so-called Oregon John, his moniker, that was last seen with Florence? Well, this is what we've learned about him. It turns out Oregon John has 93 arrests in Nome. The charges include everything from disorderly conduct, criminal trespass, harassment, probation violation, and cruelty to animals, to thefts, assaults, and to rapes. Oregon John appears to be very dangerous, and with John having Florence's socks, shoes, jacket, and cell phone, he may very well be the last person to see her. Payne Lindsey joining us, who has spent so many months investigating Florence's disappearance. Where is he now?

I know exactly where he is. I'm not going to say it on live air right now because mostly because you have a lot of listeners and viewers. And so do I. I don't want the good Samaritans to go spook this guy anymore. But I'm in communication with him and I have maintained that he has questions that need need answers. And everything points back to Oregon, John, you can dive down a million rabbit holes, but you must explain why he had her things. And look at who we're talking about here. 93 different offenses, rape, cruelty to animals. These aren't petty offenses. This is a big, this paints a character of somebody who is

dangerous. Between him walking free with 93 offenses and the sheriff hiding under his desk when he tried to interview him, Chris McDonough joining me, veteran homicide detective and star of the interview room on YouTube. Chris, in any other universe other than Nome, Alaska, this guy would be alone in a jail cell under the jail. But instead, he's out free having long chats with Payne Lindsey. Yeah, and he's dangerous. And the fact that this guy's an apex predator is what we'll call him. And I think if they took cadaver dogs within probably 50 yards of that tent, they may really want to focus very clearly in that particular geographic type of profile.

And by the way, he hasn't stopped. Chris, please spare me. Any evidence that would have been near that tent is long gone. It's on the beach, number one. Except for her body. Yes, yes. But I guarantee you the body is... He's not taking her body. Okay, that's a really good point.

And another thing I'd like to point out, this is by far the first time that someone disappears in Nome. And usually they blame it on a bear. But take a listen to this. The Ivanoff case brought a greater accountability to the police department in the city of Nome. They now have a records management system. It'd be a little bit harder for a police officer to do what Owens was able to do to the city of Nome and to the Nome police department. So we thought, hey, I wonder if Owens picked up a gun from the evidence locker.

They could always return it, presumably, so nobody would know. Sent it to Bob Shimm at the crime lab, and like an 80%, 90% match somewhere in there. So we're fairly confident that we had the right gun. So many people missing out of Nome, Alaska, unaccounted for. That's where our friends at Oxygen Payne Lindsey. Is Florence's case going to end up like all the others out of Nome? Nome where there is no resolution and they end up just saying bear attack? No, it's not. Mostly because of people like D'Ila in the community and our team and you keeping this case

alive the bottom line is i tried to talk to local police they didn't want to they're not going to be able to help me anyways i bet you their case file is literally a paragraph on a page they haven't done anything actively we don't need them to help us the bottom line is at this point based on their history i mean a known police officer killed a woman one time they don't have a good track record here someone from the state agency or even the fbi because they do this in small towns like this in alaska needs to step in and look at this objectively and say, hey, let's try to figure this out. There's a lot of red flags waving, but they're doing nothing about it.

If anything, they're hindering journalists like myself from uncovering more truths. You know, you mentioned one of the L.A. there actually being responsible for a disappearance. That was Sonia Ivanov that we were just discussing who vanishes. But pain, there are so many others as you are uncovering. Guys, his podcast, amazing, Up and Vanish. This is the midnight sun. Many people attribute pain to cracking the case of Tara Grinstead. And I pray to God this case will also be cracked. D'Isla Johnson joining us, a very dear friend of Florence's. Her little girl still wanting mommy.

D'Isla, I don't want Florence's case to just be another statistic in Nome, Alaska, where they end up a year from now going, oh, yeah, closed case, bear did it. raise awareness around this case because oftentimes it is not well covered in the news and in any media. So it has been wonderful because I know that law enforcement feels the pressure and there has been a lot of tension within the community based on a lot of the talk around town now. And I think that it has brought a lot of other conversations where previously community members were nervous to speak about this. And now it's becoming more of a comfortable conversation. If you know or think you know anything about the disappearance of Florence or about so-called Oregon John, I beg you, dial 907-443-5262. Repeat, 907-443-5262. If you want to make a change, contact the governor's office in Alaska. Do they not know that Nome law enforcement blame one disappearance after the next on bear attacks? How can that stand?

How can the governor show his face? Number 907-269-5100. Call him by name. Greg Taylor. We wait as justice unfolds, God willing, in the disappearance of Florence. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.