Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Missing Nursing Student Mackenzie Lueck: Foul stench leads to burned human remains & torture chamber plans?

Episode Date: July 1, 2019

Mackenzie Lueck's remains are found in a burn pit behind a home near the park where she disappears. The man who lives there denies knowing the college student. Nancy Grace and her panel of experts look at how complaints of a foul odor by neighbors and cell phone data lead to the discovery. On the panel today: telecommunications expert Ben Levitan, Forensics Professor Joseph Scott Morgan, Psychologist Caryn Stark, Prosecutor Wendy Patrick, Search and Rescue expert Toney Wade, and reporter Dave Mack. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Last Monday, Mackenzie Lewick's family says she landed at the Salt Lake City International Airport after attending her grandmother's funeral in California. She took a lift from the airport to an address in North Salt Lake. Her family and friends say since then, the 23-year-old hasn't been seen or heard from. I've never met a person that doesn't like Mackenzie. She is the sweetest and most genuine. Juliana Cauley says she has felt lost ever since her best friend Mackenzie Lewick disappeared.

The pair met in college at the University of Utah, where Lewick is studying kinesiology. Cauley says they hit it off from the start. It's not like her to go off the grid and if she did then she would tell me. Lewick was last heard from around 1 a.m. on June 17th when she texted her mom to say her flight landed safely at Salt Lake International Airport. From there police say she ordered a lift to an address in North Salt Lake. But Cauley says Lewick didn't live in North Salt Lake and she doesn't know why she went there. Her parents reported her missing three days later. Our friend from CBS, David Benode, the mystery surrounding the disappearance of a gorgeous young co-ed, Mackenzie Luke. In the last hours, a major break in the case. Mackenzie was met at Hatch Park by an individual in a vehicle.

Police believe she met with the person at the park willingly. The make and the model of the car has not been determined. From here, Mackenzie disappeared. Does Mackenzie have an alternate phone that she has used or is using? Who did Mackenzie meet in North Salt Lake City? THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. THE POLICE DEPARTMENT DEPARTMENT SAID THEY WERE TRYING TO FIND THE WOMAN. BUT WHEN THEY GOT TO THE HOSPITAL, MACKENZIE DISAPPEARED. DOES MACKENZIE HAVE AN ALTERNATE PHONE THAT SHE HAS

USED OR IS USING? WHO DID MACKENZIE MEET IN NORTH SALT LAKE CITY? DOES MACKENZIE HAVE ANY SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT? ONE MORE QUESTION POLICE ARE TRYING TO ANSWER.

DOES SHE WANT TO BE FOUND? SHE HAS NO OBLIGATION TO CALL THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OR ANYONE ELSE AND SAY HERE'S WHERE I WENT. CHRIS BURBANK IS A FORMER SALT LAKE CITY POLICE CHIEF. department or anyone else and say, here's where I went. Chris Burbank is a former Salt Lake City police chief. He says police are doing the right thing, calling Lewick missing, but not necessarily in danger. In this circumstance, it would certainly be tragic if this young woman is in fact in danger and we didn't do enough. Our friend at Fox 13, Mac McDonald, this young student, just 23 years old, a nursing student, goes missing. And it seemed totally out of character because this young girl, Mackenzie Luke, even texts her mom when she touches down at the airport. Video surveillance from the airport showing her after she's off her plane getting her luggage leaving the airport and she's texting somebody

very very significant then the next player in this scenario is a lift driver at the get-go this all seemed very unusual to me the lift driver divulges he takes her to a park at three o'clock in the morning. Her flight got in super late. By the time she gets her luggage, it's way past one o'clock. But why drop her off at a park? Joining me right now, an all-star panel telecommunications expert, Ben Levitan at benlevitan.com. Forensics expert, Joseph Scott Morgan. New York psychologist at karenstark.com. Karen Stark, trial lawyer, author of Red Flags on Amazon, Wendy Patrick. Commander of the Cajun Coast Research and Rescue, Tony Wade.

And joining me right now, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Dave Mack. Dave, explain to me about the Lyft driver, because he says that he drops her off basically in an open field at 3 o'clock in the morning, Dave. The Lyft driver takes her to the park and says that she got out of his car and that she was greeted by another person. She didn't seem to be stressed out in any way. Didn't seem to be concerned about anything. They greeted one another as if they knew one another. And she got in the car and left. Okay, now right there at the get-go, it defies common sense to me that anybody wants to be let off at a park at 3 o'clock in the morning. Joining me right now out of Raleigh, telecommunications expert, renowned expert, Ben Levitan at benlevitan.com. Ben, how can we track whether the Lyft driver was telling the truth?

Well, this is easy because your phone and the Lyft driver's phone both have GPS in it. When you order a Lyft, your locations get stored at the Lyft server in San Francisco, and that's the way Lyft can assure that their drivers are picking up people, that their software allows the driver to be located. So we have confidence that if we go to Lyft, who's independent in this, and talk to them, they can give us a track of both these people until she was dropped off. Probably within 30 feet, Nancy, we know where she was dropped off. Okay, Ben Levitan, let me understand this.

Every time I order a Lyft or an Uber, what I write into the two boxes, A, my pickup, B, where I want to get dropped off. That's being stored somewhere out there in the cloud? Yeah. That's what lifts businesses. They have a server in San Francisco, and when you put in your pickup location, it knows automatically the exact location of every one of its drivers.

And the driver that's closest to you will come pick you up. Now, for business, you know, the way this works, Lyft will know exactly where you are when you're picked up, and they'll know where you dropped. They kept a record of where she was until they dropped her off uh in hatch park and they probably know where they dropped her off within 30 feet nancy within 30 feet and here's another thing with me telecommunications expert out of raleigh ben levitan ben how quickly and we're not dealing with the phone company that drags it out forever. You've got to go with a subpoena.

They've got to process it. It's got to go through corporate, blah, blah, blah. When you're talking about Lyft or Uber or another ride service, how long does it take to get that info? And one more thing, while I'm thinking about it, you say they know where their driver is at all times. What is it, like a video game? They can see the movement of the driver? Just about. That's how video games work. Basically, your phone

is a tracking device and as long as you're feeding information back to Lyft as to your location, which they are doing when they're being picked up and dropped off, yes, you can sit at Lyft's location or Uber's location just like a big video game.

That's exactly how it works, Nancy. Because Wendy Patrick, a trial lawyer joining me out of California and author of Red Flags, you can find it on Amazon. Wendy Patrick, when we're dealing with a phone company like, hey, let's triangulate their cell phone. Let's find out where they were last on the phone, like we're doing in Kelsey Barrett's case. You know, Patrick Frazee, the killer fiancé, allegedly, were trying to find out where her phone went, and it took forever. Wendy Patrick, why could they get this out of lift

within 72 hours, and it takes days and days and days to get it from the phone company, Wendy. Isn't that a great question, Nancy? That's the bane of our existence as prosecutors, is trying to figure out how we can get the forensic evidence we need the quickest. You know, Nancy, you and I remember back in the day when we didn't have this type of technology, and it was virtually impossible to track people to the extent that we can today. But that's the age-old question. Why does cooperation seem to be so easy, or I should say easier in some instances than others? I don't know, but that's

one of the questions that I'm sure is going to be answered along with so many others that are outstanding about this case. Well, another thing that you're talking about, Wendy Patrick, you know, to hay with the prosecutor, I'm talking about maybe saving somebody's life, because by the time the prosecutor's typically talking about maybe saving somebody's life because by the time the prosecutor's typically on it it's already been investigated indicted and it's going to a jury or at least a grand jury and i'm talking about saving the girl's life we need the information right now so okay to you uh joining me uh renowned guest, the commander of the Cajun Coast Research and Rescue, Tony Wade, you've been on so many searches, I can't even count them. We are talking

about this young girl, Mackenzie Luke, and I would never have thought it, but apparently, it doesn't make sense to me. You want to get dropped off in an open park at 3 a.m. But he's telling the truth. So then what do you do? You go to the park. And what do you do? Well, you know, the first thing we want to do is clear that park to make sure that she is not in the surrounding miles.

You know, he's saying that another vehicle picked her up. So in a search standpoint, that kind of throws a lot of problems because now we have information that she probably left the park. Where do you go next to even attempt to search for her? There's a whole lot of holes in the story that's coming out almost daily right now. As far as a search standpoint, you have, you just don't have any idea of where to even start at. Dang. Okay. Now, when Tony Wade, the commander of the Cajun Coast Research and Rescue, says you don't know where to start, that's the truth. You don't know where to start.

They're left there at that park. But in the last hours, a stunning break in the case. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Investigations confirmed that on June 17th, McKenzie departed a plane at the Salt Lake City Airport at approximately 2 a.m. the airport. On June 17 McKinsey departed a plane at the salt lake city airport at approximately 2 a.m. McKinsey obtained a ride via transport services to the

destination of hatch park located in north salt lake city. McKinsey was dropped off by the transport services at the hatch Park where another individual met with her. McKenzie left the park with this individual at approximately 3 a.m. on June 17th. Investigations were conducted on McKenzie's phone records, social media, and other communications, which showed that all communications ceased from McKenzie at 3 a.m. on June 17th. Joining me right now, forensics expert, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan.

In the last hours, a major break in the case in the search for a beautiful young nursing student, McKenzie Luke. Joseph Scott Morgan, what does this mean to you as a forensics expert that all communication ceases at 3 a.m.? It gives us an indication, Nancy, that this young woman, for whatever reason, has gone completely silent. And what would be the need for that? It's a scary proposition in this day and age, particularly with cell phone devices, where you completely just fall off of the grid at that point in time. Was the phone shut off? Was the phone destroyed? And it gives us an indication that there might be something malicious going on here. Well, also, to telecommunications expert joining me out of Raleigh, you can find him at BenLevitant.com.

Ben, you also have to look at the target's pattern. I try to go long stretches of time when I'm around the twins without getting on my cell phone or consulting it or looking at it. And I do that on purpose so they're not exposed to mommy constantly putting the cell phone before them. So other people don't have that concern and they're on the phone all the time. What do I, explain why someone's patterns are important. Well, that's really good, Nancy. By the way, Lyft has an exigent situation platform set up. If you have an emergency, Lyft will assist law enforcement immediately.

You guys were asking, why is it so hard? Every cell phone company has a place where you can go if there's a true emergency. But what your point is, we want to look at her history and say, find out, has she been to this park before? Is this a regular meeting place? If it is, that gives us a good possibility that other people know where she is or have met her at the park or there are other witnesses. I was thinking along the lines of the fact that all, I mean, typically with me anyway, at 3 a.m., all my communications have ceased, okay, because I am asleep, I hope. I'm hearing a lot of echo. you have got to mute everybody because it is really messing us up mute everything while i'm talking because i'm hearing myself in my ear talking back i'm going to say that again well another issue and what i was driving at is at

3 a.m you would expect most people's communications online to have ceased. So what's interesting to me, when they say all her social media ended at 3 a.m., it means it didn't pick up the next morning. I mean, it's very clear. If this was a young woman that stayed on her phone all the time, which I think she did, and then suddenly nothing, it's very, very telling. A couple of days go by and then this. So far, missing Mackenzie Lewis' cell phone has not been recovered. Rather eerie, her Instagram account suddenly showed activity. Her account started following another one. And as we see so

often in these cases nowadays, a missing person's digital footprint becomes so critical. Okay, to Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. So she goes missing days pass and then suddenly she starts following another account. In other words, her account becomes active even though she's missing. What did that mean to police Dave Mack? You know Nancy it meant that either somebody had her phone and was using it or she was not missing as much as they thought. You know in early on they said look she's an adult she can go away without people being you know being told where she is. It's just out of character. So her family

and friends got real excited when that Instagram thing popped up. They're like, hey, wait a minute. Who's got the phone? Where is she? You know, in her social media accounts, certainly there is an indication there as to who picked her up. We've established the Lyft driver was telling the truth. Karen Stark joining me, New York psychologist. You can find her at karenstark.com. It all seemed out of the ordinary to me because this is a girl that actually texted her mother when she landed late at night on a late night flight. And it just seemed inconsistent to me that this girl would then go and get out of a Lyft car at a public park and jump in the car with somebody else.

It does. That sounds inconsistent. It doesn't fit her personality at all, Nancy. She doesn't sound like she's very impressionable that all of a sudden she would meet somebody and say, why don't you meet me at this place? Back to Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert out of Raleigh. Ben, as much as we know about the Lyft procedure, you know where you get picked up, you know where you get dropped off. They can follow the Lyft driver's car like it's a video game. What about social media?

I mean, can't they figure out, couldn't they figure out who she was meeting in that part? I mean, she had to do, make a cell phone call, a text, an email, something to get picked up there. Well, actually, Nancy, it could be even easier than that. It's 3 in the morning, like you said. The cell phone company can actually do a cell power dump of the tower that covers Hatch Park. That would give you a list of every phone number that was connected to that cell tower in that park. And during the morning, Nancy, there couldn't be that many. Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Tell me again, cell tower dump. What is it? Slow down for me. Okay, so when you are using your cell phone, you are connected to the closest cell count at all times. And the phone company knows, has a list of every cell power that is connected to it at any given time. Of course, because if they want to send you a call, they have to know where you are. So at 3 in the morning, how many people could possibly be connected to the cell tower in Hatch Park? Very few.

If the police go request a cell tower dump, in other words, please dump for me a list of all the phones that were connected to this cell tower between, say, 2 and 4 in the morning, you'd probably get a list of two dozen people, and you'd have an automatic list of suspects and an automatic list of possible witnesses. You know, I've been talking about doing that in the Missy Beavers. Mom murdered inside a church in Midlothian, Texas, forever. And I've got a funny feeling they have not done it. A cell tower dump Ben Levitan's talking about.

And then out of the blue, take a listen to our friends at Fox 13. City police did a lot of digging in that backyard. There were canines that were brought in. We're not sure if those were cadaver dogs or not or whether they hit on anything. Chief wouldn't say, but we do know there was a lot of digging. And then this morning, we actually witnessed a vehicle that belongs to the state medical examiner that was at the home and then left about 5 a.m. Typically, those are not called to a scene unless there is evidence of a body there

or some sort of human remains, but they were there. The chief would not confirm whether or not anything of that nature was found at the home. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The local contractor has come forward, claiming Ajahi asked him in April to build a soundproof hidden room behind a secret door at the house. Never. I've never, ever had anybody ask me anything like this. After he turned down the job, Ajahi persisted, making repeated requests through texts. He was adamant about getting it done really fast, and money was no object, and he just needed to get it done before his girlfriend came into town.

Police say Mackenzie Lewick met Ajahi at a local Salt Lake City park at 3 a.m. June 17th. From there, police believe Ajahi then took her to his home. The next day, neighbors reported a large fire coming from the backyard. Wow. Literally overnight, this happens. I've got to tell you something. Asking for a soundproof room to be built behind a secret door. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

In the last hour, stunning developments rapidly unfold in the case of a missing nursing student, Mackenzie Luke. Last seen at an open park around 3 a.m. in the morning when a Lyft driver drops her off, and that has been confirmed, and she gets into the car of another person. The search is on, and then suddenly we hear about a contractor describing a soundproof room behind a secret door that he, by the way, refused to build. To Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, the secret soundproof room, what were the specifications for that? What did the guy want in the room? You know, the guy that he called was actually just a drywall contractor for the most part. He actually wanted it to be built in such a way that it was about four foot by eight foot and just a little bit bigger than a walk-in closet. But he wanted there to be a special

entry where you had to use like your thumb imprint to enter. So the only person that could open that door would be the POI and he could use it. Then inside the room, he wanted soundproofing. And when the contractor said, dude, why do you want it like this? It's awful small. He said, well, I'm going to put wine racks. So he wanted these big hooks, big, nasty hooks to be put up about eight feet up off the ground. And he's like, why do you want hooks up that high? And he said, oh, I'm going to hang, I'm going to hang wine racks. And he goes, why do you need it to be soundproof? He said, I'm going to listen to my music down here really loud. Okay. You know, maybe I've been in the business too long, but to Wendy Patrick, renowned trial attorney out of California, author of Red Flags on Amazon. Wendy, I mean,

I could hear somebody like defense attorney Mark Geragos or some other famed lawyer saying, hey, to each his own. What do we care if he has a soundproof room with hooks across the top? Yeah, I disagree, and I think a jury would, too. Yeah, Nancy, we do need to talk about red flags. Well, I suppose this is one of them. It's kind of like the case where you have somebody going to a hardware store and buying duct tape and wire and types of things that could be used in a murder, but could also be used.

Okay, wait, wait, wait. Wendy, Wendy, please. Let's complete the list. Duct tape, wire, a tarp, you know, cleaning supplies. You know, you've got to have all that to complete your murder. And it never fails that they go straight to Home Depot or Lowe's and they get caught on video camera buying it all with their credit card. Okay, go ahead.

Well, here's what else is similar, Nancy. Not only do you have the complete murder shopping list at Home Depot, okay, I'll give you that, but you also have the fact that, like you say, a defense attorney could come back and say, hey, look, there could be an innocent explanation for all of these incriminating looking items because they only look incriminating in retrospect. Nonetheless, the fact that, and you wonder whether there's more to the story, but the fact that this contractor refused to participate in the building and construction of that room, that in and of itself is incredibly telling. Back to Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

Did I just hear about a fire pit in the backyard? I mean, I haven't heard that since Stephen Avery murdered Teresa Hall back and then became a media darling with Netflix making a murderer. Unbelievable. You're right, Nancy. And actually, it was interesting in that the investigation turned on this. You know, we didn't even hear about the police and a search warrant until after neighbors came forward to journalists and said, hey, we had a neighbor over here burning something in the middle of the night. And it was really the stench was horrible. It was a description that could only be met with, well, it's got to be a body of some type. And then the neighbor said that he used gasoline.

And we all know you don't use a bunch of gasoline to light a fire in the backyard of your cook and barbecue. But if you want to destroy evidence, well, you do that. So he actually had been burning this in the middle of the night. And it was so bad that neighbors actually contacted journalists. To forensics expert, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan. Joseph Scott, what do you make of the gasoline and the stench? Well, if you're attempting to get rid of something, many people labor under the illusion that you can burn it up with gasoline, get rid of it. In this case, maybe we might be thinking of a body of some type. It takes a lot more than just gasoline. And it's going to smell, to be perfectly blunt

with you, like a barbecue gone bad. It'll create a huge stench in a particular area. Keep in mind, this is something that would have been completely foreign to all of the neighbors that they're smelling the smell so yeah it would really grab uh grab uh the people in the neighborhood it would grab their attention very very quickly well let me be more specific joe scott um when i was in new york on 9-1-1 september 11 there was not only the smell of something burning, but it was a weird, to my untrained senses, electrical smell. That's the only way I could describe it. It smelled like somebody was burning wires and electronics. So if you burn a human body, what do you smell?

The body, a body will, just like if you're thinking of any other type of tissue that we might barbecue, for instance, it's going to give off that smell. Okay, I was just waiting for you to bring in the idea of a backyard barbecue. I knew it was going to happen. I was hoping it wouldn't, but you did it. Okay, go ahead. And after this is exposed for a protracted period of time where the fire has continued to build, it will give that charred, horrible smell that we smell just like with any other severely burned piece of tissue. Tony Wade with me, commander of the Cajun Coast Research and Rescue. You've seen it all.

Do you agree or disagree with Joe Scott Morgan, who's describing the stench the neighbors must have smelled if that backyard fire had anything to do with Mackenzie Luke? Yeah, I mean, it's going to create a smell that's going to get everybody's attention, whether they know what it is or not. I mean, it's just going to be, it's a unique smell, you know, different than any other animal. Human remains have a smell that is just all of its own. So it's going to create some issues, and somebody's going to question it because it's going to smell strange. It's going to smell bad.

You know, and on the opposite side of that, even if you burn the body, you can't burn it enough to where dogs, in our situation, canines, can't pick it up. I mean, we're going to pick it up. We do it all the time in house fires. We go into search, and the dogs still can identify that source. But it's going to create a stench that all the neighbors are going to know.

It's just not going to smell good at all. You know, it's funny, as in odd or uncanny. For instance, when I was telling the story about the smell after the attack on the Twin Towers, I didn't know why it smelled that way. I could only describe it as something electrical. I want you to take a listen to Police Chief Mike Brown. Neighbors informed detectives that they observed him burning something in his backyard with the use of gasoline on the dates of June 17th and June 18th. The search warrant resulted in the findings of a fresh dig area on his property. A forensic excavation of the burn area was conducted which resulted in the finding of

several charred items that were consistent with personal items of McKenzie-Lueck. Other charred material was located, which has now been forensically determined to be female human tissue. A DNA profile of that human tissue was obtained during forensic testing by the Utah State Lab. That DNA profile was compared and is consistent with the DNA profile obtained through further forensic testing of personal items of Mackenzie Lueck. Investigations into Mackenzie's phone showed that the communications and data ceased at the time of June 17th, at approximately 3 a.m.,

investigation of McKenzie's phone records show that her last communications were with the interview with him. He admitted to having text conversations with McKenzie on June 16th at approximately 6 p.m., but nothing after that time. That he did not know what McKenzie looked like and denied having seen a photo or online profile of McKenzie, despite having several photos of her and the profile photo. The person denied any personal contact with McKenzie or meeting with her at any time. So he denies any personal contact or meeting with McKenzie at any time. You were just hearing the Salt Lake City Police Chief Mike Brown, the guy they're looking at says he had no idea what McKenzie even looks like.

But then police find pictures of McKenzie on his cell phone. It all comes to a boiling point. It's with heavy heart that I address you today. After an exhaustive week of investigation, we are filing charges of aggravated murder, aggravated kidnapping, obstruction of justice, and desecration of a body in the homicide of Mackenzie Lewick. The man charged with these horrific and tragic crimes is the person of interest.

Ayola Adisei Ajaya. I will not be saying the killer's name again. Ayola Adisei Ajaya, the man now arrested in the murder of this gorgeous young nursing student, a 31-year-old former Army IT specialist, and author of a self-published book titled Forge Identity. Let me understand this. To Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, is it true that in his self-published book, Forge Identity, victims suffer in a shockingly similar way to McKenzie Luke about gruesome murders and the victims being burned alive?

That's what even makes it worse, Nancy. As we heard the evidence that was coming out, you know, they found in the backyard. And yet you're looking at this book where he's actually talking about the ultimate torture of two 15-year-olds and then burning them alive. Not killing them and burning the remains. We're talking about killing somebody by burning them. What do we know about this guy? You know, my nephew is an IT troubleshooter. talking about killing somebody by burning them. What do we know about this guy? You know, my nephew is an IT troubleshooter. Yeah, he's brilliant when it comes to all of that.

I never know what he's even talking about. This 31-year-old is a former Army IT specialist. I mean, hold on. Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert. What does that mean, an IT specialist? Well, it could mean a wide variety of things, but he hooks up computers and loads programs and that sort of stuff, probably for military applications. In the Army, he was probably trained to do so. That would probably be transferable to the civil world. Wow. Okay. Let me understand something else to Karen Stark. And boy, do I need a shrink.

Karen Stark joining us from Manhattan, a well-known psychologist. You can find her at karenstark.com. Karen, to write a book about it, I mean, you know, other than my non-fictions regarding the crime and the criminal justice system, I write murder mysteries. I try my best to turn them into movies for Hallmark. Long story short, I doubt seriously if I'm ever going to use any of my made-up imaginary plots on real people,

although my husband did get a little nervous when we were at Gatorland with the children. But what does it mean that it's in the book and then police believe he kills Mackenzie Luke the same way as Forge Identity? It means he's a psychopath, Nancy, which says that unlike you or anyone else who would write a murder mystery,

this is a fantasy that was inside this guy's head. If you look in that book and you read about anything gruesome or torturous, he's been dreaming about it, fantasizing about it, and then he finally gets this opportunity, unfortunately, to do it with Mackenzie. So he's enacting something that he's been wanting to do for a very long time. It gives him pleasure. I mean, good grief. He's got one is a soundproof room with hooks at the top that he could only get in with his fingerprint, fingerprint identification to open the door. He's writing books, publishing them. That's pretty bold about murder the same way we believe mckenzie was murdered to tony way commander of the cajun coast research and rescue team tony you mentioned that

your dogs could find a body even if it had been burned let me me ask you this. If he burned her body in the backyard and they have found female human tissue in the burn pit, what do you expect to find back there, Tony Wade? And what have you found in the past when victims have been burned? Well, you know, a lot of times we're going to find some parts of flesh. The bones are not going to burn. We're going to find, you know find skeletal remains of that sort. Does somebody understand that you have to have an extremely high degree of temperature to

actually consume all of the flesh of the human body? It has to be extremely hot. So, you know, we're going to find, you know, it's going to look like ash, but there's going to be portions of flesh there, and then there's going to be skeletal remains. To Joe Scott Morgan, way in, what do you expect to find in a burn pit when a body's been there? The problem with this guy is the way he went about this, apparently, is that he has used an accelerant like gasoline, and it's flashed over very quickly. That means that on her body, if this gas, which I assume that it probably was, was poured directly to it, it would flash over. It would burn intense just for a very short period of time. But as our colleague mentioned, in order to get, he didn't have that here. So she had enough soft tissue, Nancy, that in one source that I'm reading, they were able to

extract DNA from actually the soft tissue. That tells me that you very well might find a cause of death or some indication of the cause of death. For instance, if she had been stabbed, you will still see potentially injuries to the soft tissue with actual wound tracks in this area. And also the underlying bone has not been disturbed and concurrently the organs have not been decimated to the point where you couldn't appreciate the trauma. Take a listen to our friend at Fox 13. This is Lauren Steinbrecher.

What exactly is inside this home? I talked to a woman who was here a couple of months ago saying now that she saw something inside that she hopes will help police. And I saw the images of the house and I was like, wow. THE HOUSE. THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE WAS HERE A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO SAYING NOW THAT SHE SAW SOMETHING INSIDE THAT SHE HOPES WILL HELP POLICE. I SAW THE IMAGES OF THE HOUSE AND I WAS LIKE WOW. TERRA TATTERTON IMMEDIATELY RECOGNIZED THIS

FAIR PARK HOME. SHE CAME TO CLEAN IT BACK IN MARCH. IT'S JUST LIKE BASIC WIPE DOWN OF CLEANING THE HOUSE. I TALKED TO HIM FOR AN HOUR AND A HALF WHILE I WAS CLEANING SO HE WAS REALLY NICE AND FLIGHT.

NOW SHE'S IN SHOCK TO SEE THE HOUSE AND THE OWNER, PART OF AN INVESTIGATION RELATED TO MISSING UNIVERSITY OF UTAH STUDENT MACKENZIE LEWICK. WHEN TATTERTON TALKED TO HER, SHE SAID SHE WAS IN SHOCK. so he was really nice and polite. Now she's in shock to see the house and the owner part of an investigation related to missing University of Utah student Mackenzie Lewick. When Tara cleaned the home she did take note of something that she now hopes could help police. There was cameras everywhere in the house in the master bedroom there was three cameras in there. Okay cameras in your

home it's not unusual especially if you have nanny cams like some people, me. But Joe Scott Morgan, come on. Three cameras in the bedroom. This goes to this fantasy world that Karen was speaking of. He's observing things as they go through. And with psychopaths like this, I've worked a number of cases involving serial killers. They like to relive these fantastical moments over and over and over again. And as sick and twisted as it is, that's the reality that the police are dealing with. And if you heard, if you heard in the presser, that chief of police, when he made this announcement, he said, I'm not even going to say this guy's name again.

I can imagine that they have already witnessed some of these things that he did to this poor woman. Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert out of Raleigh. How do you retrieve that video from security cams placed throughout the home, or can you? Oh, I'm sure that all this video goes back to the server in his own home, and all that will be retrievable, even if you erase it. Forensically, the police have the equipment that would be able to retrieve all this video. And the digital footprint, I'm sure, also includes that he uploaded a lot of this to a cloud as a backup, because that's generally what people do with this kind of technology. To Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, what can you tell me

about the estranged wife of this guy? Well, apparently, Nancy, he married a woman with a number of children back in 2011 in Dallas. She says they never consummated the relationship because she was scared of him. Well, she was pregnant when they got married, and then she was afraid of him after she gave birth to her final little boy. But here's the other catch, Nancy. She claims that he was physically violent with her, that he threatened to beat her, he threatened to kill her with a knife, and they actually got into a fight because he wanted to move back from Dallas to Salt Lake, where he was from.

She said in the last time she saw him that she actually had to escape from him by jumping out a window where she damaged a tendon in her hand that prevents her from being able to work to this day. If you have information regarding the disappearance of McKenzie Luke, please dial 801-799-3000. Repeat 801-799-3000 as investigators bill the case against her alleged killer. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.