Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Molestation, bullying at school. Protect your child, 'Don't Be A Victim'

Episode Date: September 28, 2020

Surveys indicate that a majority of students in 8th through 11th grade report some kind of sexual harassment or molestation in school. What can you do when a teacher is the offender?Joining Nancy Grace today to talk about keeping your children safe at school: Owen Lafave - Ex-husband of teacher convicted of child molestation, Debra LaFave Jason Oshins-New York Defense Attorney  Dr Roy H. Lubit MD PHD child sex abuse expert Robbie Crispin; Private Investigator “Crispin Special Investigations”   Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida website www.pathcaremed.com  Sierra Gillespie - Crime Online Investigative Reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A lot of times when I drop the twins at school and I drive away, I look back at the school and I wonder, what's going on behind those walls? Do I trust them? Some parents have not been as lucky as I have been. Their children molested by school teachers. I want to start by talking to you about a teen boy, his name, Corbin Madison. Listen to this.

Tennille Whitaker, an elementary school teacher at the Wells Elementary School, was arrested on multiple counts of sexual conduct with students. To this point, as a result of the investigation, we found two students that have been involved. We think that there are possibly more. But she was arrested on eight counts, sexual conduct between certain employees of schools and pupils. Her bail is $160,000. Last I checked, she was currently in custody here. So we would ask anybody that has any further information, any other possible victims, or anybody has any information to contact our detective division. You were hearing the undersheriff of Elko County, Nevada, Ron Supp. That was KRNV reporting.

That was just the beginning of the story. Because after the shame and humiliation of being one of the teacher's sex victims, this teen boy with his life in front of him committed suicide. Let that soak in just for a moment. This humiliated teen took his own life after his teacher, his female teacher, now serving 20 years for sex with minors, so embarrassed he took his own life just turning 18. Great grades, football team, happy family. He's dead.

Nothing can change that no matter how many years she does behind bars. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. Joining me from New York, renowned attorney, Jason Oceans, private investigator with Crispin Special Investigations, Robbie Crispin, the founder of the company, the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida, Dr. Tim Gallagher. You can find him at pathcaremed.com, sierragillespie, crimeonline.com investigative reporter, Dr. Roy H. Lubit, psychiatrist joining me out of New York. His specialty is child psychiatry. He has testified in over 300 cases and has served as expert in a number of criminal and civil sex assault cases at RoyLubit.com. But first, I'm going to go to a special guest joining me. His name is Owen LeFevre.

After many, many years, I consider Owen not just a colleague, but a friend. Owen, your wife, Deb LeFevre, absolutely, your former wife, Deb LaFave, absolutely stunning. Just, she almost looked like a painting or a photograph of, touched up. You, her demeanor was so kind and so joyful and bubbly full of life yet she turned out to be a child molester of students and it shocked no one more than it shocked you and what seemed to be a happy marriage my point is you know you know, the other night, Owen, we had open night, open school night, such as it is for the teachers because everybody's on Zoom, you know, and I looked at the teachers, Owen, and they're perfectly wonderful teachers. They

have great experience. They're pretty. They're smart, they're enthusiastic. Every time I look at a teacher, I can't help but think of Deb LaFave. Do you remember when the charges, when the investigation first happened and you first found out about it? I bet you couldn't believe it. No, Nancy, and actually it's hard to believe it's been 15 or 16 years since that point, but it's something that I recall like it was almost yesterday, but truth be told, I knew that something was going on. So I think it's important for everybody, especially as a parent, but in this case, a spouse to really trust your intuition, but never, ever did I think it would have involved a student.

I assume that she was having an affair with another one of our teachers or her colleagues, but in this case, it was one of her students. And, yeah, I think you said it well. I mean, I was just absolutely shocked. And, I mean, Owen, you, as a rule now, never discuss Deb LaFave's case or your life at that time. And I can't tell you how grateful I am for you speaking out

because I was telling you one of the reasons Owen is speaking out today is because of this. Don't be a victim fighting back against America's crime wave. You know, I thought I knew it all, Owen Lefebvre, until I had children, right?

And now the thought of just handing them over to a teacher that can molest them, it's just, I don't have words for it. And I go through many scenarios of cases I investigated, tried, and covered in the book and tell parents what I think they need to know, tips to help them keep their children safe at school and many other circumstances. But what always was so amazing to me with Deb LaFave, your then wife, was how she had everybody hoodwinked. I mean, I'm looking at a picture of her right now. She still looks like a cover girl. What was her

personality? You know, very much like you described earlier. I mean, she was very jovial, very pleasant, um, um, very well liked, uh liked by both her colleagues and her students and within the community. And so oftentimes you will find, and as you were mentioning, as you look at people, unfortunately, sometimes there is the wolf in sheep's clothing, if you will. These people are, when I say these people, excuse me, but, you know, predators have the appearance of being outstanding citizens or giving. They're altruistic. They're very generous. They have positions of trust. And sometimes they get in those positions of trust to have access to children and future victims. And sometimes they're just optimistic, but they're opportunistic rather.

But, yeah, they develop trust and power and you never really know people's true intentions, which is why we just need to be diligent as parents. You know, what's amazing, Owen, is that as well as you thought you knew your wife, Deb LaFave, you had no idea the possibility that she could be molesting a student. Take a listen to our friends at NBC. She's a top contender for the title of America's most notorious school teacher. In 2004, Deborah Beasley LeFevre was arrested at the home of a middle school student accused of having sex with him at her apartment, in her car, in her classroom. She was 23. He was 14.

And now to a shocking story. A Florida teacher is facing possible prison time. She wasn't the first teacher or the last to be busted for a liaison with an underage student, but her case created an international sensation. You know, the reality of this, I mean, it's a big news story when it happened, and cases like this happen all the time, I'm sad to report. But today we're talking about a young boy, Corbin Madison, who was so embarrassed and humiliated after it became public that his female teacher, Tennille Whitaker, 30 years older than him, was having sex with him. He hung himself. The boy is dead because of a teacher's molestation.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about how to keep your child safe in all situations, even at school. Two years of research, investigation, and writing went into Don't Be a Victim, fighting back against America's crime wave. My proceeds going to National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. I immediately, in the book, tackle your child safe at school. And joining me is a special guest who I now consider to be a friend, Owen LeFevre. Married to, wouldn't you say, Owen, that this case of your then wife, Deb Lefebvre,

was really one of the first cases like this to hit the media? I mean, it had been happening before, but this case saturated the media and people became aware that teachers were molesting students. I guess nobody really wanted to think about it before Deb LaFave happened. Yeah, I think. And so you mentioned earlier, Nancy, this is something that I chose to, because it's been so long and I've been remarried and have a high profile professional career in the finance industry. It's something that I wanted to shy away from. But your book has really inspired me. And the story of Corbin Madison also inspired me to speak out. And, you know, I think And the story of Corbin Madison also inspired me to to speak out.

And, you know, I think at the time of my personal situation, it was really when the 24 hour media had taken place. And she's very attractive. And I think it was very polarizing because people often don't in our culture don't believe boys are victims. And, you know, I think in this instance, you could see that that's absolutely the case and they are victims. And maybe some of the responses are a little different than female victims, but it has long term consequences. And in this case, a lot of shame and guilt. Unfortunately, we lost a special boy. And it's, you know, the reason I'm speaking out is to just further support you and hoping to prevent something like that from happening to someone else. You know, Owen, for you to deviate from your rule now that you never speak about the Dev LaFave case and you are actually coming forward and rehashing all the H-E-L-L you went through at the time, the blaming, the shaming. I'm so grateful.

And it's stunning to me that this boy, Corbin Madison, took his life in humiliation, being ribbed about it every day, jokes about having sex with teacher. He just couldn't take it anymore. His parents did not see it coming. I want to go to Dr. Roy H. Lubbitt, psychiatrist joining us out of New York. You can find him at roylubit.com. Dr. Lubbitt, Owen LeFevre hit on an incredible point that very often people don't see boys as victims, but they are. What effect does a molestation by a teacher have on a child,

a person that everybody seems to like and look up to and trust, and there's the child knowing what's happening? There's a power differential between a teacher and a student. And the child is going to be under pressure and going to be controlled in a way that prevents an equal relationship. And that has a negative effect at the moment and it has a negative effect in terms of future relationships um in the midst of such a relationship you know children adolescents begin to hide much of their life from their friends from their parents and that isolates them from their community and cuts them off and that has a big impact on them emotionally. And there's a very high incidence of problems with anxiety.

You know, you said that things that happen amongst their peers, their friends at school, end up sadly defining them for the rest of their lives. It shapes the way they see the world. This young boy, Corbin Madison, committed suicide after his female teacher molested him. With me now, in addition to Dr. Lubit, is another expert who learned from the School of Hard Knocks. It's the school of hard knocks it's the husband of deb lafave her case made the headlines and brought the teacher sex crime to the forefront take a listen to this they've been married less than a year but in june of 2004 owen lafave began to have a terrible suspicion about his lovely wife, Debra. He said something along the lines of, I think Debbie's having an affair to my mom. And he thought it was with one of my fellow teachers.

He never dreamed it was with one of your students. Never. But that's exactly what happened. Debra Lefebvre, a 23-year-old reading teacher, was having an affair with a 14-year-old student at her middle school in a suburb of Tampa. She'd already performed oral sex on him. Now, 10 days later, June 14th, she invited him to help her clean her classroom and crossed yet another line.

And that was the first time. You had intercourse with him at school? Yes. School was out, and Deborah grew even more reckless. The next day, she drove the student to Ocala, 100 miles north, to visit his 15-year-old cousin. They picked up the cousin at his home. Deborah gave him the car keys. Then she climbed in back and had sex with the 14-year-old.

You know, to Owen LeFevre, I know. I don't know, maybe it doesn't hurt you this many years later. But at the time, it had to be heart-rending. And people even blaming you because you didn't know what was happening. But my point is, when you look at Deborah LeFevreave or you look at Tennille Whitaker or you look at Tad Cummings, a male teacher that actually kidnapped his child sex victim, a student, they seem so friendly, so gregarious, so upbeat. You would never suspect.

And then, oh, and when you hear stories about, for instance, Corbin Madison, the teen boy that committed suicide after his teacher molested him, the implications are so widespread, Owen. Was there any way do you look back and think, wow, here's a red flag, there's a red flag, or did she have you fooled too? You know, Nancy, it happened so suddenly, and it really did. But no, there were red flags. But like I said, and like actually she said in the interview, really had no idea. It just wasn't fathomable. You know, especially maybe a little more unusual at the time anyway,

it seemed, with a woman predator and a boy victim in her case. But it really was out of the blue. And like you said, it was really amazing how the – I will say the media largely, but wants to point blame at either me for not being a good husband or me for not knowing sooner and being able to notify somebody. But it's oftentimes the people that are closest to us are the ones that we truly don't know what's going on in their lives. Well, you know what? I want to follow up on that, Owen LeFevre, to Robbie Crispin, former police officer, now private investigator with Crispin Special Investigations at CrispinInvestigations.com. You do a ton of private eye work on all sorts of cases, but also in domestic disputes. In other words, this was divorcing that one,

and they start having them followed, or you're asked to dig up information. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're covering this book, which took two years in the making, for you to help protect yourself and your children. Don't be a victim fighting back against America's crime wave. To Robbie Crispin, we're talking about teachers molesting their students, and it happens every day. You just heard Owen LeFevre, whose wife, Deb LeFevre, was one of the first bombshell cases of teacher molesting student. Robbie, you heard him say, it's the ones closest to you.

And your line of work, Robbie Crispin, isn't it true that spouses, they don't want to know. You know what? My husband, uh, night before last, uh, you know how I remember what night it was because last night we had fish sticks. Okay. And it was the night before that. So Rob, Robbie, he says, Hey, I'm meeting Gary for dinner and you know, I'll be home right after that. I'm meeting Gary for dinner and, you know, I'll be home right after that. I'm like, great, go, goodbye. And I never thought twice about it. And you know what, Robbie? I don't want to think twice about it.

I don't want to have to say, wow, I wonder if he's really having dinner. I wonder if he's really having nachos somewhere. You don't want to know, so you don't bother to find out. And you intentionally choose to see the world with rose-colored glasses. You don't want to know, so you don't bother to find out. And you intentionally choose to see the world with rose-colored glasses. I do. When it comes to my children and my marriage, I think they're all perfect. You know, the sad part about all this is, Nancy, is a lot of people don't want to upset the apple cart.

They're living a great life. They don't want to know. They don't want to know the truth. And in each one of these cases that you're talking about, had somebody stepped forward, put surveillance on somebody, in each one of these, every single step along the way in that investigation, some type of a surveillance would have caught Debbie LaFave driving a 14-year-old 100 miles away. Someone would have caught the sex in the car. Well, hold on just a moment. Earlier, someone referred to this as an affair with a student. To Jason Oceans, a veteran defense attorney, this is not an affair. That's not what this is. These students are protected because, you know, under the law, Jason Oceans is a child this age. And I call him a child because under the

law they are, they can't buy a house, they can't buy a car, they can't buy liquor or tobacco because they don't have the mental capacity to do that. So if I hear you say affair with a teacher again, you know what? I've never threatened you with physical force, but I can do a knuckle sandwich, no mayo. And you know I mean it, Oceans, because this is not an affair. This is sexual station. I object to the use of that term. It's a crime with a real victim and real consequences. So there are, you know, I think Mr. Owen referred to it earlier, you know, with the cachet, you know the first time being a younger woman and boys. Those are boys. And this is not.

This is predatory opportunists relative to your book, opportunists taking the opportunity to do something. Crimes of opportunity. Not everything is planned specifically, but reacting to an opportunity. And what can we as parents do about it? I mean, Jason Oceans, you've just gotten your second to college, but you were on them like a cheap suit the whole way. I remember from pre-K to 12. Listen to this, Oceans. Drop in unannounced.

When the teachers see my beat-up minivan coming into that parking lot, they know there's going to be a spot check. Drop in unannounced. Know your teachers. Check out them online. Their Insta or Facebook may just surprise you. And that is not a violation of their right to privacy, is it, Jason Oceans? I can look them up. No, not at all. It's all public information, and I support that.

I mean, you know, you can't be an ostrich with your head in the sand. You've got to be alert. You You got to be a hawk. You know, quick glances behind you all the time. No different than those same type of furtive glances when you're walking to make sure that you're safe to the insides of what's, you know, all around you. Your students, their teachers, your children, be alert. Always be alert. Don't be paranoid. Just be alert. I'm going to go with paranoid. Thank you very much. Guys, we're talking about don't be a victim, fighting back against America's crime wave. Joining me, special guest Owen LaFayette. Here is another idea. If your child is singled out for special treatment or asked to stay after school,

taken on a private trip, or given a gift by the teacher, that's a bad sign. I bring out my son had an awesome teacher who gave him extra books. He loved it. He even has a keychain of a lighthouse that she gave him about one of the books. Lucy had a teacher who took extra time to rehearse piano with her in overtime, in their private time. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about like Deb LaFave driving the student, you know, an hour away and seeing them outside of school. That's a bad sign, Owen.

That is a bad sign, Nancy. But in my defense, you know, at the time, I thought she was working and, you know, not driving across the great state of Florida. And, you know, in other things and events, when, you know, she was out supporting her students, the, you know, the story and the narrative all made sense. But, you know, and for that reason, I would just warn everybody, you know, if anything seems suspicious, especially when it comes to your child, you need the question. You need to follow up.

You need to be diligent. I love the ostrich and hawk analogy. I mean, that's exactly as apparent what you need to do. Well put. Guys, it goes from, and it's so mischaracterized that this is every schoolboy's dream to have sex with the teacher. It's not. It's not at all. Take a listen to our friends. This is Jeff Zander, the Elko County School Superintendent. Did anybody in the school district know about this, Jeff, these allegations? Well, from the district standpoint, we were notified back in October of some allegations.

And so that being said, we've actually completed three different investigations on this situation in Wells over the past, you know, nine months. That being said, as Ron stated earlier, nobody was really willing to testify or give a statement that said, yes, this happened, okay? And so, no doubt the Sheriff's Office has been on a full investigation that we've participated or tried to help facilitate with the Sheriff's Office. I want to go to Sierra Gillespie, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. That was the Elko County school superintendent describing resistance met by witnesses they tried to speak to there at Wells Elementary. No one seemingly wanted to testify. Sierra Gillespie, how did that molestation occur?

What was the MO of the teacher? Nancy, so what happened, this teacher was an elementary school teacher, and she was abusing students who were at a nearby high school. So basically they would come and be like aides for her classroom, helping around with like, maybe like reading buddies or things like that so that they could get extra credit. And so how it happened was she had this special like reading corner in her classroom that you could not see from the door, like in the hallway, and you couldn't see from the windows looking outside. So she had something called her quote-unquote special hour, and that is when these situations would happen. Actually, one of the students, there were four in total who were abused, but one of the students initially resisted her, and she threatened to mark him absent, say that he

did not show up. You're not going to get credit for this course if you don't engage in these sexual acts with me. How was it finally uncovered, Sierra Gillespie? So actually there are several situations that happened. Actually, the nearby high school principal, where these students were from, the older students who were being abused, he had six reports on this. Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Six reports? Listen to this. We started getting reports from people quite some time ago. A lot of them were very reluctant to come forward for a variety of different reasons. So we did some unconventional investigation. We did a lot of surveillance and some things like that. Was able to gather a lot of information which then

led us to circle around and finally we got down to the arrest yesterday. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Don't be a victim fighting back against America's crime wave. Protect your children at school. With me, an all-star panel with PhDs and from the School of Hard Knocks, protecting your child at school, for instance. And there you just heard all these complaints were happening, but nothing was being done. The molestation continued, and the boy committed suicide.

When people started mocking him and making fun of him, the parents couldn't save him. I mentioned drop in unannounced. I've used examples like, oh, I've got to give John David a baby aspirin or, oh, Lucy forgot her hoodie to get in. Be involved. You don't have to be the president of the PTO for Pete's sake, but be involved. Be on the scene. I went so far as to be a volunteer in the library. Do you know how many thousands of books I shelved just so I could walk by and see John David and Lucy when they were on snack time? Yes. I hope the school's not listening. I did have an ulterior motive. But you know what? Back to you, Owen LeFevre. I don't know how parents can look at a teacher like Deb LeFevre and think, wow, she's going to molest my child.

What tips do you have for parents, Owen? You know, I think it really all starts with having a relationship with your child so they feel comfortable talking to you and sharing things with you. And like I said earlier, if anything seems suspicious or your child says something, you need to follow up on that, knowing who your child is spending time with, being diligent in checking their phones and emails, and even to the extent of maybe being a big brother on a life tracker app, so you know where you're at. When it came to, you know, my former wife, unfortunately, that technology wasn't around back then, but maybe

that could have helped, you know, the boy in this instance. And just understanding that just because someone belongs to a reputable organization or seems to be a reputable person in the community, oftentimes they are the predators and follow your intuition and pop in. I love that story, Nancy. I think that's a great idea. And all the books I shelved. Oh, that's the tip of the iceberg. If you had any idea, I picked the twins up and they go, mom, we saw you at recess. I'm like, so? And I wasn't trying to hide, John David. I don't care if you saw me. And

I hope everybody else saw me too, because I'm watching. To Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the entire state of Florida at pathcaremed.com. Dr. Gallagher, you may be wondering the significance of you and ME being on our program today, and this is why. It's very hard to prove a case like this at trial. There's no forensic evidence left. Isn't it true that, for instance, sperm, it's gone after about 76 hours. It starts decomposing almost immediately. Touch DNA. All of that vanishes in a matter of days. And you heard the school's resistance in prosecuting and investigating Tennille Whitaker. That young man took his life. So you can't count on forensics in cases like this to prove anything. Well, I mean, that can be true, Nancy. I guess it depends on where you look for

the DNA. If you could find a DNA under the fingernails or in other parts of the body that don't degrade as easily, you can find it on the clothing. You can find it on the clothing as well. But I understand that this case was a suicide. And is that what is going to be difficult to prove? Well, I mean, the molestation of the children is very hard to prove forensically because time passes and the evidence decomposes in the body. Well, that's true. Time is of the essence. It is your greatest enemy, and it's best if you have these suspicions to act swiftly and to collect the clothing,

collect any type of item that may have been received from the potential molester, and then sequester that for forensic evidence. Back to Dr. Roy H. Lubbitt joining us from New York, New York psychiatrist. Dr. Lubbitt, in this case, the boy victim, Corbin, felt so much anxiety and embarrassment and lack of self-esteem, the humiliation. He actually moved away from his hometown just days after high school and then couldn't take it anymore and killed himself. Now the parents have to live every day of their life wondering,

what could I have done? What is your advice to parents, Dr. Lubit? Well, it's critical that parents be very available and very supportive of these situations, but it's also critical that schools see to it that other students and teachers understand that the boy was a victim, just as a girl who has sex with a teacher is a victim. And what I've seen happen is that people turn on the male victim, where they complain that the woman was a favorite teacher of theirs, that he must have enjoyed it. He was complicit in it. And this is devastating. Teenagers are particularly vulnerable to humiliation. We all are. But when your entire community turns on you and you're a teenager and teenagers are impulsive, the risk to them

killing themselves is very high. Guys, how can you protect your child no matter what age when they are at school? And it's hard to take in that they even have to be protected from their teacher. You know, when I think of my teachers, I think about Miss Julia, my kindergarten teacher. Her husband was a farmer and she wanted to teach. So he cleared out the barn and I went to kindergarten in a barn. And it was wonderful. My first grade teacher, my second grade teacher, Miss Annabelle, I wrote my first poem for her, and she kept it. All the teachers that were so wonderful that affected my life and changed my life,

and it's hard to take in that there are teachers that molest their students. We've talked about two female teachers that molested their students, one child actually committing suicide over the shame of the sex molestation, but who could ever forget the case of Tad Cummings? Listen to this. But even after Cummings' arrest, Thomas says he tried to maintain control over her. He said not to tell them that we have done anything, that he forced me to go, say that I went willingly, say that he was trying to protect me. As time passes, Thomas slowly coming to terms with the ordeal. I know he's a bad man and I blame

myself a lot, but now I know that he's at fault. He himself made him do it. Other people don't choose your actions, you do. And Tad Cummings pleaded guilty earlier this year to transporting a minor across state lines for sex. What Tad Cummings did was take advantage of a snow day, a day that, or an in-teacher study day. When the dad thought his daughter was going to school, Cummings took off with the daughter. She was found on the other side of the country in a commune with her teacher having sex repeatedly. This little girl, she sounds so grown up. I guess the experience changed her in ways we can never understand. But no one knew what was happening. Her parents, her friends, no one knew. What can you do? Look for signs in your child's behavior. Have their grades drop? Do they have unexplained absences?

As Owen LeFevre pointed out, have the tracker, the device on your child's phone so you know where they are. Research the school history and particular teachers. Look up Facebook, Insta, Twitter, and all social media. Look for your teacher. If you get bad vibes, don't be afraid to ask that your child be transferred to another class. So what? Do your homework. This book has pages and pages of ways for you to protect your child. To all of my guests, thank you for being with us. God bless these children that are trying to put their lives back together and to the parents of Corbin.

Don't be a victim. Don't let your child be a victim. Fight back. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.