Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mom and Tot Go Missing on Family Camping Trip

Episode Date: July 12, 2022

Jill Sidebotham and her two-year-old daughter, Lydia, missing after leaving for a camping trip. The invitation to go camping came from Lydia's father, Nicholas Hansen, and Sidebotham's ex. Sidebotham and Hansen planned to return from their trip to Phillips, Maine, on June 30. When they didn't, Sidebotham's family members report her missing. On July 2, Sidebotham, Hansen, and their daughter are seen on video at a Mexico, Maine, Walmart. No one has heard from them since--not even Sidebotham's 10-year-old son Brayden.    TIPLINE: Sanford Police Department [phone] Joining Nancy Grace Today: James Shelnutt - 27 years Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective, Former S.W.A.T. officer, Attorney (Gadsden, AL), The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C., ShelnuttLawFirm.com, Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm,  Dr. Jeff Gardere - Board Certified Clinical Psychologist, Prof of Behavioral Medicine at Touro College of Osteopathic Medicine  www.drjeffgardere.com, Author: 'The Causes of Autism” @drjeffgardere  Greg Smith - Special Deputy Sheriff, Johnson County Sheriff's Office (Kansas),  Executive Director of the Kelsey Smith Foundation, www.kelseysarmy.com  Alexis Tereszcuk - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker, Lead Stories dot Com, Twitter: @swimmie2009  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A young mom and her two-year-old baby girl, both missing. Now, that's very rare. You may hear of a child missing or a mom missing, a guy missing, a single individual, but for both of them to be missing, very unusual. Where is Jill and where is two-year-old Lydia? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at WGME. Sanford police say they're looking for help finding a family that it believes to be missing. They were last seen in the Rumford area Wednesday, June 29th in a silver 2005 VW Jetta.

Their plate number on the screen right here. Police say they could possibly be in the Phillips area camping, but they were due back in the area Thursday. Friends and family say they have not heard from them. If you have information, police are asking you to give them a call. We all go on camping trips, or at least I do. I love taking the twins. We either go camping in a tent, we go in an RV. They're avid scouts that sleep under the stars. My son even camps out in a hammock with a little covering over the top of it. The thought of being out in the woods and then

suddenly disappearing almost seems like it's out of a horror movie. Again, thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation Series XM 111. We've got an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. Joining me, James Shelnut, 27 years, Metro major case, now lawyer at Shelnut Law Firm. Dr. Jeff Gardier, longtime colleague, renowned psychologist joining us, Professor of Behavioral Medicine, Touro College, and Greg Smith, Special Deputy Sheriff joining us out of the Johnson County Sheriffs, and he is the Executive Director of the Kelsey Smith Foundation.

But first, to Alexis Tereschuk, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Alexis, tell me, first of all, about where this mom and daughter live and where they were going camping. She is from Sanford, Connecticut. She was going camping in Phillips, which is about two hours away. So a bit of a drive to go camping. Two and a half hours away. You know, I'm curious. Greg Smith joining me, Special Deputy Sheriff and Director of the Kelsey Smith Foundation.

Greg, when you take a child anywhere, there's a lot of accoutrement. I remember when the children were little and we would just pack them up to go visit my parents two hours away. The entire back of the minivan would be full. You've got sleeping stuff, bottles, formula, bottle heaters, bottle cleaners. I mean, everything to take a two year old camping. Now, let's just say that's courageous, right? Well, yeah, you're going to have a lot of stuff. I mean, I can I can speak from experience.

Just a couple of weekends ago, I took four of my grandchildren camping in our camper. The youngest one was three and it's a 22 foot camper and it was stuff full of all kinds of things. So, yeah, you're going to have a whole lot of stuff. And the reason I'm asking that is, I mean, maybe in the past, Jeff Gardere, you've got six children. Okay. That's a handful. Jeff Gardere, when you go camping to start with, you know, you got to be ready for every contingency. But before you have children, I mean, you knew me before I had the twins. If I got an offer to go on a diving trip halfway around the world, I'm gone that weekend. Bye.

But when you have children, it's a whole nother ballgame. The planning. It takes a lot to take a kid anywhere, much less camping, right? Absolutely. And there has to be full responsibility. You have to train the children. You have to have a plan in place. You have to have contingencies. And certainly you have to know each and every person coming in and out of contact with you wherever you may be on that camping trip. You know where I'm going with this, James Shelnut. You leave a trail. When you've got a child with you, you're going to leave a trail if you're a responsible parent. And she, by all accounts, very, very loving mom, very responsible.

She's got another child that's 10 years old. All about her children. So when you disappear with a child, you leave a trail. You have to stop at a gas station. You have to run into the mini mart. You've got to drive through a McDonald's and get a Happy Meal. I mean, something. There's got to be a trail. It's what I'm getting at, James Shell. Not for Pete's sake.

27 years on Metro Major Case. former SWAT, on and on. James, help me out here. Why can't we find this woman? I think they can't find this woman because I believe that she is involuntarily missing right now. That's why I believe they can't find her. You're right. We've got five kids. All of them at some point were two years old. When you go camping with a two-year-old, that's a pretty brave experience.

They need clothes. They need possibly diapers if they're not potty trained. And at some point, you run out of supplies and you need to go restock. You need to wash those clothes. You need to go get more food. You know, this is something where there should be a trail of them popping back up on the radar. Somewhere. Somewhere. something where there should be a trail of them popping back up on the radar somewhere somewhere um alexis cherez chuck crime online.com investigative reporter i think you will recall

the case and maybe you dr jeff gardier we covered of katherine hoggle she had her children and um okay they've disappeared and they've never been seen since. My point is they were spotted on video at a Chick-fil-A. That's exactly what Shelnut is saying. You've got to stop. You've got to restock. You just can't go on a trip with a child and not stop for a potty break at the very least. I mean, we can't get 15 minutes before my son wants a milkshake. So that's the way that unfolds. That's why I find this so unusual. They go to, it's Phillips, Maine,

the White Mountain National Forest. They're leaving from Sanford. It's about a two and a half hour drive and there's no indication of them stopping the whole way. Now, two and a half hours, I can imagine making it that far. But at some point, you're going to leave a trail. Take a listen to our friends at WCSH. I'm not sure if maybe, like, we misunderstood something when she said she'd be back at that time. But I don't think that she would pull this. Rita Lyman is the oldest of three siblings.

Her youngest sister Jill Seidbotham from Sanford is missing. Rita says her family hasn't spoken to her in seven days. And I'm supposed to be the oldest, you know? I'm supposed to be the one that looks out for them. And I'm supposed to be the oldest, you know, I'm supposed to be the one that's that looks out for them. And I can't. I don't I don't know where to go. Can we talk one moment about behavioral evidence? It's called routine evidence.

It's not routine or ordinary. It's evidence of your daily routine. Because, you know, Greg Smith, Special Deputy Sheriff, Johnson County. Greg, let's talk about your daughter, Kelsey. For Kelsey, when she went to the, I think it was a Target, when she went to buy a gift at Target, she was on the phone with your wife, her mother, trying to pick out the gift. They were in constant contact. I'm in constant contact with my twins. And when you suddenly break that chain, it's unusual. My husband travels a lot. He works really hard. His day is bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.

And I don't expect to talk on the phone, have a big, long conversation. But if we went a whole, let's just say day without texting, I would think something was really wrong. That's what routine evidence is, behavioral evidence. And here you hear her sister in anguish because she knows something is really wrong. She hasn't heard from her sister. Yeah, I mean, those patterns of life are extremely important in a case like this. When you expect contact and you're not getting it. I mean, that was really the key thing that started the whole search for Kelsey is she was such a responsible

person and and always kept in touch with us and if she was going to be late she let us know and none of that happened so you've got a similar situation here so yeah those are indicators for that family that hey something something's gone wrong here um you know and is it serious? You know, we hope not. But they're overdue by quite a bit of time now. So it would definitely be something I'd be worried about. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Dr. Jeff Gardere, renowned psychologist, professor of behavioral medicine, and author of The Causes of Autism. Dr. Jeff, you and I covered the Nicole Brown murder,

the Ron Goldman murders at the hands of Simpson. And many people started that timeline with the sound of their dog, Nicole's dog wailing in the background. And that was good enough for the prosecutors. And I agree with them because the neighbors had never heard that before. I think that in this case, when the family says this has never happened before, that that should not be discounted and that should be the beginning of the timeline. Absolutely. And as I was thinking about this, I'm also wondering when was the absolute last time they had heard from Jill while she was on that trip. Did she call to say we arrived wherever we were supposed to go, that, you know, Lydia is doing okay, you know, this is what's happening here, because the family was concerned about her leaving. So yes, absolutely, we have to pay a lot of attention to something that is different

from her usual psychological functioning, sociological functioning. Or at least send pics because you've got your two-year-old girl with you and you know she's doing all sorts of cute things. I would believe that the mom would be taking pics and sending them, texting them. And then we get a break in the case.

Take a listen to Our Cut 7, our friends at WABI. The search for a missing Sanford family continues after authorities say they were spotted over the weekend. The Sanford Police Department has been searching for Jill Sidebottom, Nicholas Hansen, and their two-year-old Lydia Hansen since late June. Authorities say the family who was going camping in the Phillips area was last seen by additional family on June 27th. Authorities say they have not been heard from since. Officials say the family was spotted in the state on Saturday evening at a Walmart in Mexico. Sanford officials say they are still working through tips and sightings and ask for the public's help locating them.

So they're actually spotted at a Walmart in Mexico, Maine. Let's take a look at what that means. Number one, we know they're still alive July 2. Okay, so we've had June 27, 28, 29, 30. Now we're on July 2. They're alive then. They've made it that far. They're at a Walmart. You know what's interesting? It even matters what they were buying. It matters. If they're restocking for more camping or if they're getting snacks and gas to hit the road and go back home, all of that matters. What about it, Shelnut? I agree with you 100%. Matter of fact, that's one of the things that came to mind when I was making some notes on this this morning is that it would be nice to know, you know, did they buy

those diapers? Did they buy additional food to continue this camping trip? Because if they didn't, then that's even more concerning. You know, let's talk about Phillips, Maine. The population at the time right now is only 898 people. 898 people. Now, this is in the White Mountain National Forest. Alexis Tereschuk joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Alexis, what can you tell me about the White Mountain National Forest? How big is it? And the reason I ask, we have just come off the Gabby Petito Brian Laundrie case. They were camping to start with and dispersed camping, which means you're not near an electrical hookup, a water hookup. You're really out in the middle of the wild with the wild animals. You got to be a really good camper to do something like that. And then we dealt with the Carleton Reserve.

The Carleton Reserve in Florida, 25,000 acres of natural forest and swampland. And that is where Laundrie holed up and we think shot himself out of guilt of murdering Gabby Petito. The terrain and all the facts surrounding that reserve, as well as where they were camping, became big factors in the search and the possibilities as to what happened. So now we're talking about the White Mountain National Forest. What do we know about that, Alexis? Well, here's one thing I think that's really important. The White Mountain National Forest has a rule that you may not stay overnight in your car. So the thing is, they were seen, you know, in the car.

There was a silver car that they put out, you know, an alert if you see this car but you cannot stay in your car in this park so if their car was somewhere in this park overnight since they've been gone for so many days somebody would have noticed it wait a minute it says you can't stay in your car but can you park your car and go and stay in a tent yes but you can't stay in the park. So that could be one thing that would be something. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're saying you can't stay overnight camping in the park? You can't drive your car and like sleep in your car. You have to have a tent. There was no mention, nobody ever said, you know, they packed up their camping gear or anything like that. They just drove away in a car. Okay, this place is huge.

It's 750,852 acres. It's wildly popular and we know that there are very tall mountain peaks there. Now, do I think they took the baby up a mountain peak? No. I'm just curious if we can figure out, Greg Smith, did they ever actually go camping? Let me just put this in your mind, everybody. We all remember the story and we're waiting on the trial of cult mom Lori Vallow. Remember that last fateful photo of them at Yellowstone? Now, they were just apparently going for a day trip, but I would expect there to be some indication of what their plan was. That changes the whole search. Were they camping?

Was it a day trip? Were they staying in a nearby hotel or a motel and just going there during the day? We have no indication they actually ever went camping. Or do we, Alexis Reschuk? No, we don't. We don't have any proof of that at all. None. And she hasn't spoken to her family in days. So she left on the 27th. The last time they heard from her was the 28th of June, just the very next day. So maybe she forgot her phone charger or the car charger wasn't working. But they were in a Walmart. They could have bought a new phone charger. They could have said, I think Walmart will let you do almost anything.

You can sit down and plug in your phone. But nothing, no communication whatsoever. That's what her sister is saying. Maybe I misunderstood what she said, but I talked to her and then she's just done. And so they have no communication and no way to even ping the phone. It's interesting on that count to Dr. Jeff Gardier. If I suggest the twins go anywhere without their phones, it's like all hell broke loose. This woman's phone has been turned off since June 28. Now, they were spotted

at that Walmart in Mexico, Maine. And again, Alexis, how far? We know she comes from Sanford, two and a half hours to Phillips, Maine, the White Mountain National Forest. Then they're spotted a day or two later at this Walmart in Mexico, Maine. How far is Mexico, Maine from Phillips, Maine, where they were camping? It's about 30 miles north. Okay. And I have confirmed, Dr. Jeff Gardier, that they were buying food, although I don't know what kind of food, if it's food to cook over a campfire versus snacks to go back home. We don't know the answer to that. But what do you make of her phone being cut off? Isn't that odd to you? That's very alarming and so interesting you should say that. I'm scheduling patients this morning to be seen and one of those people, her phone just stops

working. Now, of course, I'm not considering any foul play, but it's concerning to me because the person knows that they have a therapy session. They have not reached out to me. They haven't said anything. So I'm thinking maybe their phone is cut off, but it may mean that they may not have the money. Again, I'm not concerned about foul play, but I'm concerned. So in this particular situation with what we're talking about with Jill and the rest of the family, for her phone to be cut off in that way on a trip with her daughter, no one is communicating. And now you add on that the phone is cut off to me is very, very concerning. And one last thing, Nancy, I would also be very interested as to what they look like physically when they were spotted

and what kind of behavior they were exhibiting. Oh, good thought. Has anybody thought that there's not a signal up in White Mountain National Forest? Has that dawned on anybody that maybe that's why you can't get in touch with them? Which could indicate that's where they've gone missing or met with foul play, or was the phone intentionally cut off? Take a listen now to our friend Mal Meyer at WGME. The Sanford police have been looking far and wide

for this family family which includes a two-year-old child. Authorities now say that the family was spotted buying food at a Walmart on Friday. Where they went after that is still unknown. Police are trying to find Jill Seidbotham, two-year-old Lydia Hansen and Nicholas Hansen. The group was last known to be headed to the Phillips area for camping, which is about two and a half hours north of Sanford. They were due back in southern Maine last Thursday, but police say family members grew worried after not hearing from them, which is how law enforcement got involved. After a few days without any confirmed sightings, the group was last seen on surveillance video at an undisclosed Walmart.

Now let's throw a wrench in the works. Take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. Our cut to, this is Dave Mack. Corey Alexander says he and Jill Seidbotham have been in a relationship for three years and are engaged to be married. Alexander says Jill is a devoted mom. She was supposed to see her son on June 30th, the day she was due back from her camping trip with her ex. Her son was planning to stay for the weekend. Jill's father, Ron, says Jill worships her son, and it's not like her to not show up, especially without mentioning anything to anyone. Corey Alexander says,

we had plans for the weekend. We were going to do stuff with the kids for the 4th of July, and we were just going to have a nice long weekend together. And then Friday came around, and I realized she wasn't answering me. I knew something was wrong. Something in my gut was just telling me that this isn't right. He said he's never before known Seidbotham not to respond to a text or a voicemail. When Jill and Lydia did not return from camping on June 30th, the family grew concerned. On July 2nd, two days after they were expected home, Sidebotham's family reported them missing to the Sanford police.

Okay, let me understand something. So 28-year-old Jill is engaged to be married to Corey Alexander. They've got a wedding date. Everything's set. But she goes camping with her ex and their daughter. She has baby Lydia with the ex, right? Nicholas Hansen. So she and the bio dad take their daughter camping.

Do I have that right, Alexis Ter tereschuk yes you do nicholas hansen is her ex and he is the father of her daughter lydia so he came over to the house she actually lydia lives with i'm sorry not lydia jill well jill and lydia live with jill's parents and nicholas came over to the house and said, let's go camping together. And she agreed to go with him. Okay. To take the baby. Okay. To Dr.

Jeff Gardier. I'm all about co-parenting. If this is their bio child, baby Lydia, they have together fine. But what do you make of it? Well, you know,

she is engaged to Corey Alexander, but yet she goes on a camping trip with Nicholas Hansen, her supposed ex. So to me, that is very disturbing as to why there is that sort of situation going on, number one. And number two, her 10-year-old son. I mean, this, from what we know, is a devoted two, her 10-year-old son. I mean, this, from what we know, is a devoted mother to her two-year-old. I don't see any reason why she wouldn't be just as devoted to the child who's been around even longer, her 10-year-old son. And so she hasn't reached out to them from what we know, reached out to that boy. So all of that just makes it a just a very, very disconcerting situation and tells me, and I'm just guessing here, but I think everyone agrees that there is something

going on and it is not good. Take a listen to our cut nine from our friends at WGMA. At this point, it's not considered necessarily suspicious. It's just unusual. It's unusual. And yeah, and it's just, you know, concerning for the family. And if they're concerned, then we want to pay attention to that. Also adding to this, that a child is involved. But at this point, authorities still have no reason to believe foul play is involved or that this is a criminal matter. There's a lot of unknowns, including if the group is intentionally or unintentionally avoiding contact. Greg Smith, you're the special deputy sheriff. Why does law enforcement always say that they don't expect foul play?

The woman has crapped out on her son, her fiance, her family, if she's doing this on purpose. And I don't believe that she is. Why do they always say we don't suspect foul play? Everybody knows she's in constant touch with her family. Law enforcement is limited, Nancy, because of the environment today. All they can go on is what they see. Apparently from that video, it looked like nobody was under duress in the store. They went in, they bought food, according to the stories that we have. Yes, it's unusual that there hasn't been any cell phone contact. There haven't been any texts, those types of things, but they can't definitively say that there's been some kind of foul play. And in today's society where

everybody sues everybody for saying anything, law enforcement has become somewhat cautious in what they're going to put out there publicly. Well put, Greg Smith. Nancy, this is James. Jump in, Chalnut. Hey, look, at what point do you become concerned? Listen, let's size this up for just a second. This lady and her two-year-old daughter went camping with an ex who Jill had a toxic relationship with.

They have not been seen or heard of in 10 days. She has a 10 year old son at home wondering where his mother is at, is completely out of character for her to not contact this family. At what point does the Sanford Police Department get concerned? To me, this is outrageous that they have not taken a more aggressive approach and saying, hey, we are worried about this lady. We hope she turns up safe tomorrow. But for right now, there is absolutely cause for concern. Let me go to Dr. Jeff Gardere, jumping off of what Shelnut and Smith just said. Dr. Jeff Gardere, not just a renowned clinical psychologist and professor,

also author of, I believe, one of your books is called Love Prescription. Remember that? Because I haven't forgotten it. What hold do certain guys have over certain women and vice versa? Okay, wait, before you answer that, take a listen to our cut one. This is Dave Mack, our friend, at CrimeOnline.com. Jill's father, Ron, says on June 27th, Nicholas Hansen showed up unexpectedly at their house and asked Jill to go on a camping trip with him and to bring Lydia. Jill's mother urged her not to go, but Jill said it would be fine. Jill's father, Ron, says he was concerned as soon as he heard about the impromptu camping trip, saying he doesn't trust Nicholas Hansen,

claiming there have been issues. They went camping in Phillips, about two and a half hours north of Sanford, and were expected to return home on June 30th. Jill Seidbotham's phone stopped working on June 28th, and Hansen's on June 29th. They did not return on June 30th. Okay, Dr. Jeff Gardere, can you imagine if an

old boyfriend showed up on my steps and said, hey, let's go camping. What? Get the hay gone. There's a reason we broke up. Okay. No, I would not go camping with an ex that not that I think that he would go berserk, but that would totally hurt my husband's feelings. I'm not going to leave my son behind and and take my daughter. That's not going to happen. But what is that pull that men, certain men have over certain women and vice versa? Too often what we see in couples and relationships, specifically committed relationships or relationships that were at some point very significant, is that old behavior patterns come in. Someone may say something that sounds alluring. Someone may say something that sounds like it was significant in the past, and then it reignites something in that person's mind.

So let's go camping. Okay, I know that's something I shouldn't do. I shouldn't bring my daughter, but it brings about a sense of excitement I once had. Maybe I'm having an issue with my present relationship with someone else. So then I make perhaps a decision that may not be the safest. But Nancy, one of the things that I've learned for a very long time is when your family says, hold up, wait a minute, alarm bells, don't do this. We have to listen to the family because the family always seems well, for the most part, may be much more clear-eyed about a situation

because they may not be directly involved with an individual, but they're able to see it much more objectively as family. And therefore, when they give a warning, we should listen to that family. We should listen to the parents. We should listen to the siblings. You know, that thing that we all do, we do something, throw caution to the wind and do something, go somewhere.

On an impulse, we've all done it. Why do we do that, Dr. Jeff Gardier, knowing it's going to be nothing but trouble? Again, it's going back to those old behavior patterns that we still have. I don't know what you mean by that. You better dumb me down for me and give me an example. If we're involved in a particular interaction with someone, we still have unresolved feelings, unresolved emotions. We tell ourselves, well, it's over. We say that in a manifest sort of way, a peripheral way, but deep down inside, we've never resolved that psychodynamic or those feelings. Then, you know, all we're doing is putting a bandaid on something that

hasn't completely healed. Trying to figure out what you're saying. Are you trying to say maybe she still had feelings for this guy? Maybe she still loved him, even though she's engaged to somebody else. And he shows up and goes, hey, let's take our baby girl and go camping, OK? Let's just give it a try. I could see a lot of women falling for that. You said it much better than I.

You broke it down. And thank you, Nancy. Absolutely. That is a possibility. But let's look at another possibility. Could it be the individual knows exactly what buttons to push, exactly how to manipulate, which is part of that, and whether there was a fear factor that involved that the parents don't know about. Greg Smith, I got a bad feeling. I've got a bad feeling. I mean, look,

women and men all the time will go off on, let me just say in a nice way, a walkabout. I could see this guy showing up and going, look, we've got a long history. We've got this baby girl between us. Let's just go away for the weekend. Have a good time. Just be together as a family. I could see her going, okay, can you just see that? It's a strange situation. I mean, as I read through different stories about this and I look at some of the dynamics of it, I mean, he's 10 years older than her, which is kind of a strange relationship in and of itself. And then you look at the cell phone data that we've talked about, the fact that the phones were off or they're no longer activated. I mean, cell phones are my thing.

That's my specialty. I'm concerned. I don't understand why there hasn't been more emphasis put on the cell phone. There's a lot of information that can be got from cell phone records, from CSLI, from cell site location information. Granted, that's going to take a warrant to pull that information out, but you can actually figure out where they've been, where, you know, where were they on June 28th? Where were they on June 29th? Where were they after they were past time that they should have been back? Those are things that can be that can be looked at. And I don't see any of that going on, which goes back, I think, to your original question on, you know, the police are treating this as like, well, we don't think we don't have any reason for concern. Okay. We're overdue now by a couple of weeks. I think there's a reason to

be concerned and that they could start looking at that information. I think you're right. I think they need to quit focusing on her phone, which is obviously turned off and start focusing on his. Take a listen to our cut six, our friends at WCSH. Police say Jill and her young daughter, Lydia, along with a man named Nicholas Hansen, were camping in the town of Phillips in Franklin County. Jill's father, Ron, says they were expecting her home on Thursday. We hadn't heard hide nor hair of her. We can't get through to her phone.

Nobody's been able to get through to her phone since Tuesday. Ron says this is not normal for her to be gone without contacting family. Ron also says the man his daughter was with, Nicholas Hansen, is the father of Lydia and the ex-boyfriend of Jill. Oh, I was worried as soon as my wife told me what they were doing, but I didn't think this would happen. I mean, I just, I hate to say it, but I don't trust the guy. There have been past issues with him. Sanford police say they are not considering their disappearance suspicious at this time. For now, Ron and Jill's sisters are spreading the word of their disappearance on Facebook posts. It's the not knowing what's going on. It just is eating away and eating away at my head and my stomach and my wife's stomach

and her head. crime stories with nancy grace alexis jerez chuck so she goes off with the father of her child. She's been painted as a scarlet woman for basically having two boyfriends. She's not married. She can do what she pleases. And there's nothing wrong with it. And I don't like the fact that she has been judged. Exactly.

She is not married. And they do share a child together. And I know people that are divorced or that maybe had never been married that have children together that do things together. They take their kids to Disneyland or they do go camping or they go to the mall and go to dinner. So maybe she was trying to do something nice for her daughter where the daughter could see that mommy and daddy can get along fine.

And she obviously wasn't afraid to go on the trip, even though her mother, who she lives with, said, please don't go. But she made a decision maybe that was the right thing for what she thought was for her family and for her daughter. You know, even the sister didn't like the ex. The sister, Rita, warned her on Facebook, quote, be careful of Hansen. It seems like the whole family was suspicious of him, but she went anyway. What do we know about where they may be now? Or how can we possibly find them?

Shelnut and Greg Smith have both pointed out the focus on not just her phone, but Nicholas Hanson's phone, the X. What about their vehicle? Take a listen to our cut 10, our friends at WGME. The family was last seen driving a silver 2005 VW Jetta with the main registration plate 1563VJ. It has a black rear bumper. Police say if you can snap a photo or video of a potential sighting that could help with their investigation. A sighting is great but until we can

actually validate that it is them or it is that vehicle you know that's where we can have another jump off point to maybe check you know more detailed area and maybe in those areas. Now the Sanford Police Department is working with a number of other agencies to follow up on tips but again that last confirmed sighting was now nearly a week ago. And as to that sighting we were talking about their behavior Dr. Gardier was we know that according to police who have looked at the video they were buying food items and quote didn't there did not appear to be anything nefarious or criminal according to the sanford police lieutenant matthew gagney um so they seem normal on the 27th and now they've dropped off the face of the earth the family is sick

we know that they were last seen in that 2005 vW Jetta. It's silver. Tag number, main tag number, 1563V Victor. You know, I just keep thinking, as I always tell my girlfriends, there's a reason you broke up? To Dr. Jeff Gardier joining us, author and professor, board certified clinical psychologist, there's a reason they broke up. And that reason is giving me a very bad feeling inside. She broke up with this guy. The whole family says, be careful. She goes on this camping trip. What is it about these toxic relationships that pull people back in? There is what we know, a manipulation that goes in when there may be a situation of some sort of perhaps emotional abuse. It's not just someone acting out and

imposing their will on them, but psychologically manipulating them and making them feel guilty and engaging in activities that they don't want to, lowering their self-esteem so that they may make decisions that puts them in a compromising situation. But as a very famous person once said, who's a dear friend of mine, let's be careful and not victimize the victim here and look at this as a cautionary tale as to what can happen in a situation where someone is being manipulated. That person, by the way, who said that was Nancy Grace. Thanks, Dr. Jeff, as always. Guys, I got a bad feeling about this woman and her two-year-old little girl, Lydia. If you have any information or think you have information, dial 207-324-9170.

Repeat, 207-324-9170. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.