Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - MOM BEGS FOR HELP TO FIND MISSING JAYDEN, 10, NOW HE'S FOUND IN SHALLOW GRAVE, MOM SUSPECT #1

Episode Date: August 14, 2025

Jayden Spicer, 10,  was last seen at 9pm when he went to bed. He was reported missing the next morning, just over 12 hours later.   Jayden Spicer is 5 feet one inch tall, with blonde hair, blue eyes, and a slim build. He was last seen wearing blue "Sonic the Hedgehog" pajama pants and a matching shirt.   Jayden’s mother, Felicia Gross,  too anxious to speak with the media,  asks police to share a letter with them instead, begging for help. The search for Jayden includes an extensive search of his home and the area surrounding his home. Kentucky State Police using aircraft, drones, k-9, and sonar.  Friends, neighbors, even politicians, help search. As the search grows, two of Jayden's aunts question some of the information they have been given. Again, police were told Jayden went to bed Tuesday night but was missing Wednesday morning.   Chyy Salers and Samantha Bunty say a lot of the info they have been told "doesn't add up".  A week into the search Felicia Gross leads police to the shallow grave where Jayden is buried.  Gross says she gave her son some type of sleeping medication that she says caused a fatal medical emergency.   Gross is arrested.  Joining Nancy Grace today: Ben Powers - Criminal Defense Attorney, Facebook: Legal Powers PLLC, www.legalpowers.com Dr. Sue Cornbluth - Family and Relationship Expert,  Owner of Dr. Sue & You, Author of “Building Self-Esteem in Children and Teens Who Are Adopted or Fostered “, www.DrSueAndYou.com, YouTube: DrSueAndYou Trooper Matt Gayheart - Kentucky State Police Dr. Thomas Coyne - Chief Medical Examiner, District 2 Medical Examiner's Office, State of Florida; Forensic Pathologist, Toxicologist, Neuropathologist; X: @DrTMCoyne Sydney Sumner - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This technology is already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Mommy begs for help, begging the public to help find her missing little boy, Jaden. Now, he's found in a shallow grave, and Mommy is suspect number one. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

I want to thank you for being with us. 10-year-old Jaden Spicer goes missing in the dead of night. No witnesses, no screams, just a child. Gone without a sound. First of all, who exactly is Mommy? I came in like a red tip-ball. I said I get to want it up. I can't live a light running for my life I will always want.

Don't you ever say, I just walked away, I will always want you. And that from our new friend Ariel Hicks' YouTube, and I would like to see Mommy at her finest again. Let's just roll that beautiful footage. I came in like a red tip-ball. I never get to want it up. I came with a light running for my life. I will always want Don't you ever say

I just walked away I will always want you Okay, that is from our new friend Ariel Hicks YouTube Can we get back to the missing child Just 10 years old The world on its ear

Looking for Jaden And this is where it starts Listen A 10 year old boy is missing and the Kentucky State Police is asking for help to find him. Jaden Spicer was last seen Tuesday night at 9 p.m. when he went to bed and reported missing the next morning around 9.23 a.m. in the Pan Bowl Branch Road area. Troopers and local search and rescue teams are asking the public for help.

Jaden's 5 feet 1 inch tall, blonde hair, blue eyes, slim build. Last seen wearing a blue Sonic the Hedgehog pajama pants and a matching shirt. When I think about my twins at age 10, so sweet, so innocent, just scrubbed in sunshine. What a wild goose chase. The pain so many people endured looking for this sweet little boy joining me an all-star panel as suddenly the Kentucky State Police do an about face,

a U-turn coming to a screeching halt when they find this child's body buried in a shallow grave. Joining me first to Trooper Matt Gayhart with Kentucky State Police. The KSP worked this like dogs using every possible means of detection. Trooper, I know you've covered a lot of missing children cases

and you have worked them tirelessly. When you find a child, obviously kill. in a shallow grave, not a child that gets lost in the forest, not a child that falls in the pool by accident or drowns in a river, all an accident,

but buried in a shallow grave, that has got to be excruciating after all the hundreds of man hours you guys put into finding this child. That's correct. You know, anytime you have a missing child, you go into it with the most hope

that you're going to retrieve that child and bring home safely and, To have an end like this is just absolutely tragic. You're seeing shots of 10-year-old Jaden now, and the Internet is saturated with them because seemingly the world joined in in the search for this little boy. This, as Mommy, begs for help. The whole time, she knew where her child was. Listen.

Jaden's mother, Felicia Gross, is too anxious to speak with the media and ask police to share a letter instead. She writes, we love Jaden and we want him safe at home. Please, if anyone sees my son, Jaden Spicer, please report it to the Jackson Police Department. Thank you. We love him very much. Please do the right thing. Call the police.

Please pray for us and my son, Jaden. Thank you. Okay, sometimes even now I'm speechless, pray for us. And the whole time, Mommy, according to police, had just dug a hole to put her, 10-year-old boy in, you know, Trooper Matt Gayhart, did anyone get suspicious when mommy would not give a plea, a public plea for help? You know, as we were searching, you know, the first full day of searching, it takes a little while to get all of your resources mobilized and on scene to start a conducted search.

As that time, through this first full day of searching, we started to think that maybe he's not out there where we're looking. Let me see the letter, please. I want to see the letter that Mommy put up. This is a letter. Mommy refused to speak publicly and issue a plea for help. This is the letter she had police read. To Sidney Sumner joining us, Crime Stories Investigative Reporter, what exactly happened right there?

The media was contacting Ms. Felicia Gross, wanting her to come out and speak with them about her missing son, Jaden. and she didn't want to go on TV. So instead, she wrote this letter asking for help. She couldn't bring herself to be on TV because she had too much of a guilty conscience because we know she wasn't camera shy. We watched the other video. She clearly is pretty confident in herself.

So I'm thinking it was that guilty conscience knowing that she falsely reported her son missing and had people looking for him, she wasn't looking for him herself. And we know that Jaden has siblings, but Ms. Felicia Gross wasn't out there looking for her own child. So I think that's why she may have been a little bit too nervous to go on TV. Okay, you know what? I didn't know that.

That's a new fact for me. Trooper Matt Gayhart joining us helping to lead an exhaustive search for this child. Is that true? is that true that not only did she not speak publicly asking people to help find her child or encouraging all of the volunteers out there she also did not search herself i did not in the search in the immediate area at all okay ben powers get ready i hope you're ready for round one powers uh veteran criminal defense attorney and you can find him at legal powers dot com ben you know what uh you need to go ahead and finish that first book about how not to be

when you've done something horrible. And one of those, it reminds me of Scott Peterson, that's like eating a dirt sandwich, who wouldn't make a public plea for his wife's return and who also wouldn't go search for her. I mean, rule number one, at least pretend to search, at least pretend. Well, so, Nancy, it's a stressful situation

and you don't know how you're going to react in that type of situation. And so to read into all these things that, oh, this must mean that because she acted this way, or it must mean this one specific thing because she didn't do a certain thing. I mean, that's a lot of speculation, and that's a very specific conclusion that you're trying to reach on nothing other than your own opinion for the conclusion you already want to go to. Second verse, same as the first. So do you have children? Are you blessed enough to have children been powers? I do. Okay. And are you actually telling me,

if your child went missing, you would sit on your C-A-N, watching E. ESPN while other people are out looking for your child? Is that what you're trying to say? I would think that I would go out. But what I would say also is I've seen a lot of different cases with a lot of different stressful, shocking panic situations. And you never know how someone's going to react. Sometimes they react the way you expect. Sometimes they don't. But you can't read into that a very specific conclusion either way. It's just human nature is you never know how you're going to react to stressful situations to shocking situations. I mean, I can't read anything into her reaction other than that's how she reacted.

And you can't say how what the right reaction is or what the wrong reaction is. The reaction is just to react. And there's not much more to do it. Okay, Ben Powers. You save that for a jury. Okay, because that's where this is headed. Right now, after begging the public, begging the public in a written plea to help find her child, hundreds of volunteers out there, the Kentucky State Police sweating bullets trying to find this child.

Let's take a look. Oh, there's the letter. Please. Show me. Show me, Jaden. Wait till you hear what she now says happened to her little boy and to Dr. Sue Cornbluth, joining us. Family expert, owner of Dr. Sue and you, and author of Building Self-Eesteem in Children and Teens, adopted or fostered. and you can find her at Dr. Sue and you.com. Amazing site, by the way. Dr. Sue, thank you for being with us. I'm just a trial lawyer. I'm just a JD. You are the veteran shrink.

So maybe this is wrong to project. But don't you know, every juror that may end up hearing this case is going to do the same thing. I wouldn't sit on my rear end watching HGT. while one of my twins were out there, Godda only knows where. No, no, no. And I can project a memory when my son, my daughter and I, there were about two or three, went to a big, huge Babies or Us super store looking for organic suntan lotion because I got shamed at the community pool for using regular suntan lotion.

And I looked up and Lucy was standing there, but there was no John David. I picked her up like a football, like a star quarterback, and started running through this big warehouse, screaming, my baby is missing, locked the doors, everybody helped me, screaming his name. I felt like electricity had run through me. Little did I know he was playing a game with Mommy and hiding on a row a few up, but I ran the other way, right? I ran toward the door thinking if somebody had him, they would leave. when he had was hiding the other way. So I'm projecting what I went through in those moments. Don't you think a jury would do the same thing?

I absolutely do, Nancy. And what you said is a normal reaction to how a mother would feel if her child was missing. So, you know, I don't know what this woman was feeling or wasn't feeling. But that note that she wrote says that she missed. him and wanted everybody to go search for him. So with that in mind, maybe the jury will actually think she had some remorse. But we'll have to find out and see what happens there. Okay, let me ask Trooper Matt Gayhart. Trooper, again, thank you for being with us. What was the reaction amongst your people, Trooper Gayhart? When it was discovered that Jane,

And I haven't really let myself think about it because as a mom, you tend to put yourself in those shoes and the thought of one of my children being in a shallow grave is just too much. But I'm wondering about the troopers and the volunteers that find him, that find his little body. it had to be like a gut punch, a kick to the teeth after all you guys had been through. I mean, you did it all. The drones, the dogs, the bodies of water, the shoulder to shoulder searches for him. And then it comes to this. What was the reaction amongst the troopers? Nancy, the only way that I can describe it is just pure, just...

gut-rich and devastation. Like I said, you know, we keep so much hope alive in the search and we're doing all these things trying to bring him home safely. And when you see the ending, it's just absolutely tragic. And as a father of young children, and majority of our guys have young children, it's just such a hard situation to do. But you have to put that aside and try to maintain professionalism and make sure that we do a thorough investigation that may make sure that we make sure that we're.

we bring justice to Jaden. You know, another thing powers the defense attorney, such as yourself, is going to have to deal with is the fact of how many days, how many hours, you know, I would break it down to days, to hours, to minutes. How long mommy sat on her rear end when she wasn't singing, I came in like a wrecking ball on video, how long she sat still and said nothing? and I'm going to put it to you like it is, Powers, and let her child's body decompose in the dirt. How long she sat there?

What, did she have coffee in the morning? Did she watch the morning shows? Did she kick back and watch a little real housewives? I would really be interested. She rented a movie. While everybody else, that's a fun thing for you to do, Trooper, is to find out, what she was doing while everyone else was searching for her child. Did she order Uber Eats or DoorDash? Did she online shop? What was she doing? While you, Trooper, were out looking for her child and more so

knowing that with each minute that passed, her baby's body was decomposing in the dirt, unprotected from the elements. You ever thought about that? Have you ever thought about tracing her activities while you were out sweating bullets away from your family looking for him, this sweet little boy? Yeah, all that stuff has been taken into consideration. And, you know, her movements were being washed and tracked and tracked. And that's all part of the investigation. And we hope to be able to answer that in the future. Guys, in the last hours, we learned that after begging, begging the public to help find her child.

Mommy sat in her house as her child decomposed, knowing he was buried in a shallow grave. And if you can imagine it, it gets worse. We are now hearing allegations she coached her other children to lie about what happened. But when police arrive at the scene, they immediately start the search. Listen. Upon rival of units on scene, they immediately began a search of the immediate area, followed by a larger scale search that's been followed out in conjunction with Breath County Emergency Management, along with multiple search and rescue teams. From Fox 56. As detectives search the woods and fields around his home, Jaden's mother issues a public statement, begging for her son's safe return while hiding a secret she thought would never be uncovered. In the last hours, we're learning a lot. As we go to air tonight, tell me, Sidney Sumner, was mommy spotted at McDonald's? According to Facebook posts from some very angry locals who spent their time volunteering, who are familiar with this family, she was spotted at McDonald's grabbing food while others were out in the heat, in the wilderness, dealing with the bugs, going through.

very thick wooded areas looking for any sign of Jaden. I mean, people were looking through piles of garbage for any clue, any sign of this missing little boy. And she's stuffing her face with a burger. Okay. You know what that's bringing up the horrible specter? He's raising his head like a monster. Scott Peterson, remember? Remember this? Sidney Sumner, you and I covered this together. We about fell out when a detective told us, and this was recent because it did not come in at Lacey's murder trial, Lacey and Connors. We were talking to, I think it was Brokini, you and I, and he said that when Scott Peterson was told, we just got the DNA results from the two bodies that washed up on San Francisco Bay, and it is Lacey and Connor.

Within five minutes, within five minutes, Scott Peterson asked if he could stop it in and out for a double, double with cheese, a large fry, and some kind of a frosty drink. He just got told your wife and child are dead. Those are their bodies, and he wanted to double double, whatever that is. So, obviously, it did not affect mommy's appetite. Another thing, Sidney Sumner, and again, I'm projecting, and Dr. Sue Cornblumbley's going to have a field day with this. After my fiancé was murdered, I remember losing down to 89 pounds.

The thought of food nauseated me. And I can still remember the first thing I consumed. I was staying at my mom and dad, Sid, and went to the fridge and drank some orange juice. I remember that moment that I finally wanted to drink something. Now, tell me again, how did we find out, you actually found out, how did you find out mommy is chowling down at McDonald's while her son is missing and she knows he's in a shallow grave decomposing? Jackson locals who know this family, who are familiar with Jaden from school, who have seen

Felicia Gross around town are angry. They are up and they are posting about all of the things that she did and didn't do during the search for her missing son. So someone said, oh, I saw her at McDonald's getting food while other people are out looking for her kid. So people are not happy about this situation and that she blatantly lied and led people to believe there was hope to bring Jaden home safely. Well, another thing, taking Gayhart and all of his people away from their families

to look for her son through the night, through the elements, walking shoulder to shoulder coming up with everything they could while she's at McDonald's Ben Powers. Now, what were you saying about how people react? There's no playbook for grief. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now mommy's spotted with a big Mac chowing down. I mean. Yeah, I mean, that's still, you got to eat.

She can't just stop eating completely. So, I mean, I can see how that can be funny. Oh, my stars. But, I mean, there are people that do stress eat. I mean, the name is true. I mean, you have to eat. I mean, she's got to keep living. You're amazing.

But, I mean, that doesn't mean, that doesn't mean anything. He just took that nasty wet hay. And you spun it out into gold, Rumble Stiltskin. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA.

Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught, and I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors,

and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases, to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Sue Cornbluth, we clearly need a shrink, okay? If Mommy has taken to her bed and can't even get out of bed because of grief, I can understand that. but mommy chowing down at McDonald's on a mac mill what that ain't going to play with a jury doctor

this is infuriating okay she's out having a big mac or whatever while her child is missing you know Nancy this is screaming to me liar liar and I don't know what is going on here if it's mental illness or what but I'm thinking about Anthony right now and not in a great way that some of the same stuff is going on here. You know, to me, Nancy, it seems like it's a mother that doesn't want her child. Oh, you just said something really, really smart, Dr. Sue, you just touched, you just stepped on a landmine because I've got some news for you. But I want to first, hold on before I lose this thought, Trooper Matt Gayhart joining us, Trooper, I'm sure you love it when people give you suggestions for your investigation. why don't you? And then they, you know, fill in the blank, see a psychit, consult tarot cards, blah, blah, like it goes on forever. But I'm going to do it. I'm going to go out on a limb. I wish you guys would pull the McDonald's video and just watch her demeanor. Maybe at the drive-thru. Was she happy and cheery? What did she order? Did she start eating right then when she got the food before she could even get on the street? Did she go in? I hope she goes in so I could watch in detail.

Mommy Chowing Down while you're out looking for her son, which she knows his remains are in a shallow gray. So we've got the McDonald's videotape. I'm happy to get it for you. I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I bet I could. And her HBO, Showtime, Netflix, Amazon usage while you're out searching. You know she was holed up in her room with A.C. on Chowin Down on McDonald's watching pay-per-view. And I want to find out every single thing she watched. Just a thought.

I got some more news for you. Sidney Sumner, Dr. Sue Cornbluth just said something really interesting. She didn't want a child, okay? Can you enlighten us about what you found out about who was raising him up until three months ago? Well, we don't know much, but we do know that Jaden's grandmother was really his primary caretaker. And we don't know much else about the home situation. Felicia Gross is married to Josh Gross, and that is Jaden's stepdad. We don't know much about Jaden's biological father, but it seems that his grandmother was his primary

caretaker. And there's also siblings in this family, maybe half siblings, maybe full siblings. So it's unclear if Jaden ever really saw his mom on a regular basis before his grandmother. passed away. Now, isn't that quite the coincidence trooper Gayhart? Another brick in the wall. I'd be on that like white on rice. So grandma is raising the boy, just 10 years old. He's still a baby. Mommy gets him. And three months later, he's in a shallow grave dead. So obviously, she did not want him. She gets him back, and then bam, he's dead. Sid, did the grandma pass away?

Actually, just recently. And Felicia Gross also two years in jail. So two years of Jaden's life, she was actually behind bars on different charges, a child endangerment, and then later, drug and weapon charges. Trooper Matt Gayhart. I mean, the grandma is clear. in failing health. And she gives Jaden back to mom, and within three months, he's dead. I mean, can you imagine the life he led before grandma took him? I mean, my grandmother, Lucy, who I

would name my daughter after, helped raise us while my parents worked, and those were, it was amazing. I mean, dirt poor, but so much love. And that's what he had with his grandma. Then she starts going downhill and dies, but she gives the boy to mommy, and now he's dead. I mean, just the heartbreak of that. I mean, do you ever just sit in your car and cry and just like, how it could have been so easily avoidable? But it wasn't? I hate to sit and think about just such a senseless killing and such an innocent child losing his life for no reason at all other than the fact that you don't want to take responsibility and raise your child.

Day two of the search for 10-year-old Jada includes an extensive search of his home and the area surrounding his home. Kentucky State Police using aircraft, drones, canines, and sonar. The area of searched is in the eastern part of Kentucky, about an hour and a half south. southeast of Lexington in the community of Jackson in Brethett County. So we've utilized resources from KSP aircraft. We've used drones from multiple different sources. We've also used canines and people walking on foot through the hills, search for any type of clues or evidence where somebody may have been.

We've also used sonar to check waterways in close proximity to that residence as well. We've also used Fleer, which is a great technology search for missing people. From our friends at WKYT. The area surrounding the home and areas he is most familiar, searched by the best resources available. Now the family of Jaden's raising money for a reward to help bring the boy home. Jaden's aunt Samantha Bunti launched a GoFundMe campaign to raise for cash reward. Priest Father Jim Sitchco is also offering a reward for the safe return of Jaden. Unfortunately, we've not been able to locate a lot of evidence suggesting that he would be close by.

So unfortunately, we're kind of at the same spot we were when we started the search. From our friends, Fox 56, and joining us is that trooper help leading the search trooper Matt Gayhart. I'm going to go to Dr. Thomas Coyne in just a moment. But first, Trooper Gayhart, what? Raising money to find Jaden? and mommy just sits on our thumb while money is being raised to help find Jaden. And you've even got the priest, Father Jim, offering his own money as a reward for information. And mommy sits there, much in a burger, seriously?

Yeah, you know, we tried literally everything to get information in this investigation. it granted us rather quickly that what we were doing wasn't going to work. So the community together and tried to get some funds together to get somebody to come forward with some information that would lead us to Jaden. I would put my two eyes on that money because if that money goes in mommy's pocket, oh yeah, all HEWL going to break loose in this studio. Guys, listen to the heartbreak that some of the troopers were going through. as stated by our guest listen you think about a 10-year-old child who is if he wanted away from the residence and is just by himself walking through the the forest he's gotten no resources with him so you're racing against the clock as

far as getting him home safely we must continue hope but unfortunately at this point where we're at the investigation we're it's a race against the clock We're essentially, at kind of her last leg, we need to locate him immediately. That's time from our friends at Fox 56. It really struck me as you're out there literally beating the bushes. You used the dogs. You used radar. You did everything you could.

You organized search after search after search. And you were talking at one point how you were thinking about a 10-year-old. child who's wandered away and is alone in this forest. He's got nothing with him, maybe not even shoes, nothing to drink, nothing to eat. Tell me about the terrain you search, Trooper Gayhart. The majority of that area is very steep, very rugged terrain. It's very overgrown with dense vegetation. So for searchers, it was really difficult to try.

that terrain. I can't imagine a 10-year-old being able to just run a muck through it. 10 years old, 10 years old, out in that rough Kentucky terrain. When if at all did it go through your mine trooper that he did not wander away? We started having speculations around the second day of the search, which was the first full day of having all of our search and rescue crews out there. About that time where we wouldn't find any evidence suggesting that anybody was out there. So at that time, we started thinking maybe we're looking at a situation where we're chasing our tails here.

You know, regardless of the mom, there were two aunties that raised the red flag. Listen. There's some stuff that just doesn't add up in this case. And as two aunts and mothers, we've, we've quite. question a lot of the information ourselves. Friends, neighbors, even politicians helping search for 10-year-old Jaden in a nightmare. Two of Jaden's aunts questioning information, police were told Jaden went to bed Tuesday night but was missing Wednesday morning. Ants Chai Sallers and Samantha Bunting say a lot of the info doesn't add up.

Jaden would never venture out in the dark and climb the rugged terrain surrounding his home. Yes, who would? And you know, another thing that's interesting, and we've seen this in other cases, Sidney Sumner. Oh, by the way, that original sound was from our friends at WSN. for Sydney, we've seen this in other cases where children allegedly wandered out at night and all their shoes were still in the home. And the only thing missing would be them and the PJs that they were wearing the night before. So you've got to believe this child would go out in the middle of the night without shoes, not wearing any clothes, and wander so far away from home, didn't wake up any dogs, nothing like that, didn't set off a burglar alarm.

nothing and gets lost in the middle of the night. That's what we were supposed to believe. I mean, that stuck to high heaven at the get-go. It just doesn't make sense. His aunts say that Jaden was terrified of bugs, and bugs are especially worse in the summertime. So for them to say, to be told that Jaden wandered out of the house in the middle of the night in the heat with all of the bugs that he's

terrified of, they immediately knew that something wasn't right. And for Jaden to have not woken any of his siblings, when he left in the overnight hours or in the morning, and this was a long period of time that nobody saw him, 9 o'clock at night to 9 a.m. in the morning, that's a long time for a child his age to sleep uninterrupted without making a keep. So I think people were very suspicious of Mommy's story from the very beginning. You know, to Trooper Matt Gayhart, what was Mommy's story at the get-go? Did she ever mention, you know, I just don't see him going out in that terrain. He hates bugs and mosquitoes.

He wouldn't do it. Did she ever say anything like that? And then the aunties raised the alarm that this was just, it didn't make any sense. What was her original story, Trooper? reported that while they were sleeping, that the whole family went to bed just shortly after 9 p.m. At some point during the night, into the early morning hours, Jaden had left the residence that was now missing. They didn't check on that child until just a little after 9 a.m. the following morning. So you have a 12-hour gap there that we're trying to pin down exactly maybe when this child left the residence.

So her story was he goes to sleep and she wakes him up, goes to wake him up at 9 a.m. He's not in his bed. That's the story, right? That's correct. You know, another fun thing for the troopers to do would be to go in the home and see if any shoes were taken. Actually, you don't need to do that because you know how his body was found. What was he wearing, Trooper, when his body was found?

That information we do not know. Just as part of the investigation, a lot of that stuff it looked into, that's taken to the medical examiner's office for analysis. So that's stuff we'll be able to answer. answer a little further down in the investigation. You know, Dr. Sue, Dr. Sue Cornbluth, joining us, family expert, you can find her at Dr. Sue and you.com. See, that's something a mom would know or should know.

For instance, mosquitoes never bite my son. They always bite my daughter. Always. And when she goes outside, that's something she and I think about. she would never do this she would never go out that way and get eaten up by mosquitoes I'm just

I'm just thinking why it had to be the aunties that put this out there that the story doesn't add up that he would never do this and not the mom and I know Ben Powers is going to say that's not hard direct evidence such as DNA or fingerprint but it's circumstantial evidence very strong circumstantial evidence to me

to me this is a mom that doesn't know her child at all. Look, Nancy, you know what's screaming at me right now? One, she was in jail for a year for child endangerment. So we cannot just throw that out like that never happened. You know, I don't know what happened, but to me, it seems like she has the possibility of abusing her children. I want to say one thing here that a lot of people don't know this term, but it's called unwanted child filicide. And what that means is that you do. not want your child and you want to go off and have a life of freedom and you see your child as an object, not as a human being. And I'm just thinking to myself, this is probably what is going on

right here. This is a mother that had a lot of problems, probably didn't want to be a parent. He was acting out and she had it. And perhaps she said, I'm just going to discard him now. Then a new lead emerges. Listen. Detectors responded to the location and initiated a search. Shortly thereafter, approximately 3 p.m., the remains of Jaden Spicer were discovered, buried at the scene. The Brether County Corridor's office responded and pronounced the child deceased. The remains will be transported to the medical examiner's office in Frankfurt for an autopsy.

This incident has now transitioned from a missing person investigation into an active and ongoing Cremble investigation is our top priority to protect the integrity of this investigation and seek justice for jaden yes ma'am uh there's a lady you come up got door and uh she's some guy jumped into a red light with her car with her two kids in it and he took off and she got out the car here at Ohio and he's got the kid yes ma'am in her car I don't and she's a real hysterical and I just decided I need to call along get them down here and the car is it we need to know something We're trying to ask her down. A Mazda protege.

What color was it? A burgundy Mazda protege. Get them going, Pam. I got two kids. Okay. To whoever has my children, that they please, I mean, please bring them home to us where they belong. Save it, Susan Smith. Use that in your next appeal to get out.

from behind bars. That's from our friends at WYFF. Wow, an eerie similarity. While that mommy knows her sons are at the bottom of a lake in her car belted in their seatbelts by her. She's begging for the public to help find them and actually blames some mythic guy that comes up and carjacks them. But she's not the only parent who kills their child and then bed. for people like Superman Gayhart to go find them. Listen. Shannon, Bella, Celeste, if you're out there, just come back. Like, if somebody has her, just please bring her back. I need to see everybody. I need to see everybody again. This house is not complete without anybody here.

Please bring her back. My daddy is a hero. He holds me grow up strong. He helped me almost not go true. He reads me books. He tied my shoes. If you're a hero, blue and blue, my daddy, daddy,

I love you. From our friends at Denver 7, of course that is the devil, Chris Watts, and he says, I need to see everybody again. Well, you're not, because they're in heaven, and that is not where you're going, Watts. No, you're going to be literally on the hot seat having supper with Satan. He murdered his wife, Shanan Watts.

He murdered Bella and Celeste, his little children, and forced their bodies into openings in oil tankers at Darko oil fills and the containers were about that wide at the top and he shoved their bodies down ripping the skin off the baby's arms. The wife, Shanan, was pregnant. She was buried in a shallow grave and suffered coffinbirth.

She delivered baby Nico in the grave post mortim. Yeah. Okay. Listen to this. My daughter finally admitted that the baby's in store. I need to find her.

Your daughter admitted that the baby is where? But the baby tender took her month ago that my daughter's been looking for. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can't find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she's been trying to

find her herself. There's something wrong. I found my daughter's car today. And it smells like the been a dead body in the 3 o'clock. Okay, what is the 3-year-old's name? Kaylee, C-A-Y-L-E, Anthony. That, like the current case, was the loving grandmother,

Cindy Anthony, she and husband George had been taking care of Keely all along while Todd Mom, Casey Anthony, sat on the sofa and ate chips watching TV, pretending she had a job, even going so far as to wear the uniform from Universal. I mean, but here is taught mom. on the phone asking for help to find her daughter that prosecutors say she killed. Listen. You last saw her a month ago? 31 days. From 31 days. Who has her? Do you have a name?

Her name is Zenrava Fernandez-Denzuela. Who is that? Babysitter. She's been my nanny for about a year and a half, almost two years. Why are you calling now? Why didn't you she called 31 days ago. I've been looking for her and have gone through other resources to try to find her, which was stupid. No, she wasn't. She was slung up at her boyfriend's place

living with him and his roommates. That's sexy. That said all the while Kelly's body was decomposing, as were Bella and Celeste, as were Susan Smith's little boys. A foot washed up a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was.

Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA, using new scientific, tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny, you might just miss it. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors. And you'll meet the team

behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcasts. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Dr. Thomas Coyne, renowned chief medical examiner, district two medical examiner's office, state of Florida, never a lack of business in Florida, a forensic pathologist, toxicologist, and neuropathologist.

Dr. Coyne, Mommy has said, a trooper What did she say that Jaden died of a, what, a medical emergency? That's correct from some sleeping medication that she had given him. A medical emergency caused by her. Okay, so translation, according to her, she ODed him on some kind of a sleeping formula like Benadryl. I don't know what it is yet. So the medical emergency that we know of right now is mommy in. Indeed, Dr. Thomas Coyne, you know, when children pass out or they are not waking up after

they've had too many meds, typically parents call 911. Okay, we've seen this claim before at trial top mom Casey Anthony claimed that Kelly died in the pool, but instead of calling the ambulance or having a funeral, she was just put in black plastic trash bags and thrown in a swamp. Okay. See, that is just screams lie. Dr. Thomas Coyne, I need you and I need you now. How, since his body has been decomposing, will we be able to get a COD cause of death?

You sure hope so. It depends upon the amount of decomposition. So I'm assuming that since he was identified at the time the body was recovered, that hopefully he has not decomposed enough to still have tissue present, that number one may allow you to see if he had any trauma, you know, if he was asphyxiated or beaten, stabbed, what have you. But more importantly, with regards to toxicology, enough tissue left to test for various substances.

So you can test if there's any blood or bodily fluids. You can certainly use that. But we can also go to tissue. And we certainly have hopefully tissue. present that would allow us to find those answers. Okay, Dr. Coyne, I didn't want to interrupt. I didn't want to miss the words you said, but could you please break it down when you say get tissue? What does that mean? A fingernail? A toenail? Hair. Is it blood? Is it urine? And how do you get it? Is it skin? What do you mean by tissue? Do you go in and suck out a part of the liver

cell? What does that mean? And how do you do it? And you also said, I know this is a compound question, disallowed in court, but I think you can handle it. What do you mean by determining if he was asphyxiated or ligature strangled or bludgeon? How do you look at the body and tell that's what happened? So let's assume this is a normal body who just died recently. So you're going to begin with an external examination looking at their body from head to toe, looking for signs of injury. So bruising, stab marks, lacerations, any particular injury. After the external examination is done, we proceed inward and we look at all of the body cavities, including inside the skull, examine the brain, examine all of the organs internally, the tissues after they're reflected,

and that allows us to see what injuries may be present. So if a person was strangled, you may very well see injuries on the neck, bruising on the outside of the neck, abrasion, scratch marks. As we remove the skin or reflect the skin backwards, you may see hemorrhaging in the neck muscles, fracturing of the cartilage or bones in the neck, things that suggest that there were pressure applied to the neck. You may also see soft signs like patechial hemorrhages in the face. But if a person was beaten, you may see it fractures, bleeding within the head or the brain itself.

So those are the findings we look for to identify injury. When a person is decomposed, it gets much more difficult because as a tissue begins to break down, fluids will travel throughout tissues. It may be hard to identify an injury. Also, the injury may be gone. So the person may have been stabbed, and the area that was stabbed or, person was shot with the gun, let's say, those tissues may be gone simply due to decomposition, but also due to scavenging activity from animals and insects. With regards to toxicology, when we're doing the autopsy, we can actually access the veins on the body using needles,

just like you wouldn't, you know, office setting to obtain blood. But once we open the body, we have access to all of their organs, we have access to the fluid and the eye, we have access to the bile and the gallbladder, and we can actually use their organ tissues themselves. for instance, the liver, the brain, the kidney, to also test for toxicology. So that's what I mean by having access to tissue and access to fluids. There's a lot of potential material there that we can use to hopefully find that cause of death. Wow. Now I know why you're the chief medical examiner in District 2 Medical Examiner's Office, State of Florida.

That was a lot. I was taking notes as quickly as I could. But needless to say, now I know how you get the samples. I know what you mean. And in your experience, isn't it true, Dr. Coyne, that very often, if there is a ligature strangling or even a manual strangulation, you can look at the body with the naked eye and tell that's what happened. You don't have to look at the particular eye in the eye.

Of course, you'd follow up with that to see if it was burst, but you can look and see the damage around the neck. You can see stab wounds. You can see blunt force trauma. I'm just curious, but you did. squirt, a little perfume on the pig there when you said scavenger activity. Break it down. Sure.

So, I mean, the second you die, first of all, we are full of bacteria internally within our sinuses, our mouth, within our gut. So the second you die and your immune system is no longer active, your bacteria will begin to eat you. And if you're outside in the heat, that bacteria will grow exponentially. So that's the first thing. Secondarily, you have insects all around you in the environment, especially blowflies that will land upon deposit eggs. Those eggs will hatch and will consume the bodily tissues and bodily fluids. But also you have other scavengers. And by that I mean birds like vultures or you have rodents. You have other predators that may be in the area that come upon the body, smell the process of decomposition, the volatile organic substances,

even in a shallow grave, they'll go looking for that. And they may actually walk away with portions of the body. Sometimes they walk away with the portion of the body that allows you to determine the cause of death. And so you hope those processes don't occur. And if they do, it may make it difficult for you to determine how that person died. Ben Powers, vultures, rodents, rats, taking parts of this boy's body. If they do not seek the DP, I will do a back. flip. I mean, that's pretty aggressive to go to death penalty based on what we know

before. I mean, what we have is a death that we don't know the cause of death yet. You know, she does have child endangerment in her past. That could be physical abuse, but it could be, but she also has charges in her past for drugs and having him around drugs and using drugs around the child. In this situation, please, are you about to say that she had a drug habit and so I she'd feel sorry for her? No. Well, her explanation so far was that she gave sleeping medicine to her son. He may have gotten into her drugs, or she may have given him a drug she shouldn't have

had, and freaked out and realized that's bad for her. This is a bad situation, and so you're using everything that happened after to try to say, oh, this is premeditated, when really it could just be a panic reaction. Plus, there is the stepfather that we haven't been talking about at all. I mean, I'm hard-pressed to believe this mother alone in the dead of night drove 20 miles to the thick woods, dug a shallow grave, and got home before anyone knew she was gone by herself. I mean, there's a lot more to this story. Well, she did coach the children to lie. Hold on. Sidney Sumner, there may be witnesses. And I'm sure Gayhart doesn't relish the idea of questioning and interrogating little children, but that's his duty, whether he likes it or not. Isn't it true that mommy is also accused of tampering with witnesses, i.e. the siblings telling them to lie about what happened?

Yes. Yes, she is. She is charged with tampering with witnesses for coaching Jaden's siblings on what to say to police about what happened to him. So we don't know what they saw. We don't know if they were in the car while she made this trip. if Jaden was asleep next to them in bed and didn't wake up. We don't know what these children witnessed and what she told them to not think about or how she explained this away to them. I'm sure it's a nightmare no matter what it was. You say it, Sidney, coaching them, you mean asking them to lie. That would be my argument at trial.

And I want to stress, and I can't stress it enough, she is innocent tonight as we go to air. She is innocent. It is the duty of the state to prove her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, what Ben Powers doesn't want you to hear is the rest of that statement. To prove her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, she is presumed innocent unless and until the state pierces the presumption of innocence with proof. Trooper Gayhart, the thought of this boy, out there in the elements and when I heard Dr. Coyne talk about rodents, rats, vultures, potentially taking pieces of his body, it's, you know, I think I would just go jump off a cliff if I didn't have my twins to live for about the meanness in the world. And, you know, we earlier reported, you got a tip that led you to this location. Who led you to the body?

So information that we received came from mom herself. She gave us the location of where she had taken Jaden and buried him. Okay. Trooper Gayhart is not revealing secret facts. We found that out from other sources. So I'm sure Ben Powers, defense attorney, will want Mommy to get a gold star for leading to the body. Oh, that's not happening. I'm going to use that against her.

How does she know where the body was? I guess you're going to conjure up the stepfather and say she was along for the ride? She may very well have been. I mean, she made the initial report with the public letter asking for help finding him. You know, I know you made a big deal about her going to McDonald's, but she does have the other children. And I mean, if she's coaching them to lie, she's got to feed them in kids like McDonald's, and you want to make a big deal about her, you know, movies that she ran it. Well, if she's renting movies that kids would watch, that shows that she's taking care of the kids that she has with her.

And so then she makes the ultimate report that leads investigators to the exact site of this young boy. And so that certainly has to raise questions of what was her role, who else might be involved, what really happened here? And I think a lot of that might be answered through what I'm sure investigators are doing, which is getting search warrants for phones, for the home, and waiting on the forensics from the autopsy to come back to maybe get a more clear story. And again, I have a hard time believing that she would have done all this by herself without anyone knowing. You know, and so there's a lot more to the story. But she did make the initial report, and she made the ultimate report that found her son.

And it sounds like in between she was taking care of her other. kids. And so I think that certainly colors the picture in a different way than, you know, what you were saying about the death penalty and things like that. I think that's, oh, yeah, she was taking care of her children's been powers. Hey, I'll give you a cheeseburger if you lied of the cops. That works. I guess. Because there's a bigger story to it with others involved. I'm only laughing because my alternative is to cry or just my head blow off right now. We are now learning that earlier today, Mommy makes a first appearance in court. What happened, Sid? Felicia Gross pleaded not guilty to all of the charges against her. So she appeared in court.

She was read her rights and her charges and she said, I did not do this. And this will eventually go to a jury trial. Yes, you're seeing video from our friends at WKYT, Mommy in court saying, what? I'm not guilty. I had nothing to do with it. Oh, you know, I get asked online all the time. How can someone confess and then plead not guilty? You know what? That is the way our system works. That is how Ben Powers wins so many of his cases. The jury may never know that they confessed. They may try to get a plea deal to get the death penalty off the table. there are a million, there is a myriad of legal loopholes. But mommy just in court claiming not guilty. And that's her right, because right now she's innocent. Just wait and find out if a jury agrees

with that. This case is ongoing. The Kentucky State Trooper, Trooper Gayhart and many, many others are still amassing evidence. What happened before, during, and after? What time was this body taken to this remote location? Is there video from door cams, from red lights, from businesses that Mommy may have passed with the body in the car? Did she take her children? What about her car and nav system? What about her cell phone?

What, if anything, did you see here or notice? That tip line, 606-435-6069. Repeat, 606-435-6069. If you want justice for Jaden, let your voice be heard, and we wait as justice unfolds. But now we remember an American hero, Officer Juan Lopez, Pelham PD, Alabama, killed in the line of duty after 15 years in LA law enforcement, leaving behind a grieving wife, Katie, and two children, Abby, and Eli. American hero, Officer Juan Lopez.

Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab, every case has a story to tell, and the DNA holds the truth. He never thought he was going to get caught, and I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology's already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.