Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mom & Dad of 5 answer online ad for used car, MURDERED

Episode Date: September 9, 2020

Joseph and Jossline Roland are looking to buy a used car they found on the app, Letgo. When the Rolands meet the seller, Kyree Brown, he allegedly pulls out a gun and shoots them both.Joining Nancy Grace today: Troy Slaten - Criminal Defense Attorney, Los Angeles Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta www.angelaarnoldmd.com Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet," featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network Levi Page - Investigative Reporter CrimeOnline  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. All they wanted to do was buy a car, a used car. Just recently, my husband David and I decided we had to break down and buy a new minivan after 12 years with the Toyota Sienna. And we looked and we looked and we would take the children with us through car dealerships, used, new. Some of them were open. Some of them were closed. I never thought that I would be attacked by a gunman and shot dead looking for a car, leaving my children without a mommy or a daddy. That's what happened.

And I want justice for this family, the Rowland family. Mommy and Daddy Dead, leaving five children left to grow up without their parents. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at KUSA. Police say the Rolands met up with Brown two Fridays ago in Aurora to purchase a vehicle he listed on LetGo,

an online app to buy and sell used things. According to their daughter, Joseph Rowland flipped cars for a living. The affidavit details a police interview with Kyrie Brown, wherein he allegedly admitted to stealing the car and posting it for sale on the app using a fake name. On the night of August 14th, when the Rowlands met up with Brown, the affidavit says he told them he had brought the wrong ownership title and asked them to follow him to his home. According to the details of his interview in the affidavit, that's when Brown got out of his car, pointed a gun at the couple, and demanded the money for the car.

You know, it just breaks my heart to even hear this. Let me introduce an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. Very famous, or should I say infamous, defense lawyer, Troy Slayton, criminal defense attorney, joining us out of L.A., renowned psychiatrist, Dr. Angela Arnold, joining us at the Atlanta jurisdiction at AngelaArnoldMD.com, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Now he's a star of Poisonous Liaisons on True Crime Network, Joseph Scott Morgan. But first to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, joining us with the latest. And if you want to see this family and see the evidence that we've managed to obtain so far, you can find it at crimeonline.com. Levi, explain to me how this family, and I'm not

laying fault on Jocelyn and Joseph Rowland. People answer Craigslist ads, and this is called Let Go. They go online all the time to find stuff. I do it. I go online all the time to seek out things for the twins, find out where I can get it. What is it? How did they end up with this minion from hell? So Nancy, Joseph Roland, he's 39 years old and his wife, Jocelyn Roland, she's 40. They had five kids and Joseph worked at somebody. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Right there. Right there. Joe Scott Morgan, normally right now I go to our shrink, Dr. Angela Arnold, but knowing that you just shipped your son away to join the military, can you imagine five children? That's your life. I've heard you and talked to you all you're going through being away from your son.

Five children. I mean, Joe Scott, we sink our whole lives into our children. Can you imagine them growing up without mommy or daddy? Five children? No, I certainly can't, Nancy. And, you know, my son has just left. He's a grown man now. No, he's my son has just left. He's a grown man now. No, he's not. Quit saying that he's a baby. How old is he exactly?

He's 19. He's 19, but he's done some growing up. Yeah, I know. But these are babies, Nancy. And now they're without a mommy and daddy. They're not going to be there to kiss them. They're not going to be there to take care of them when they're sick. And they're not going to be there to kiss them. They're not going to be there to take care of them when they're sick. And they're not going to be there to bathe them and put them to bed at night. Pray with them. Take care of them like moms and dads should. These kids are left as orphans. You know, I'm looking at a picture of mom and dad of five, Joe and Jocelyn Rowland.

And the children, they are not 19. They're itty-bitty. It looks like they're on a vacation. They've got an ATV behind them. They must be out. Oh, my goodness, and here's a picture of them hugging each other, the mom and the dad. Back to you, Levi Page.

I only broke in because I know you don't have children yet, but when you do, I'll give you plenty of unsolicited advice. Levi, how old are these children? So some of them are teenagers. Others are really young, school-aged kids. I'm looking at one little boy and he looks like he may be five, maybe. And there's a boy and a girl. They look like twins to me. I don't think they are. They remind me of John David and Lucy. Hold on.

Oldest is 17. They look like twins, like John David and Lucy. He's so much taller than her. The little boy looks just like the little sister. And they look to be maybe nine, eight or nine years old. And the little boy looks like he's five. Then I see two other girls. One looks like she may be 14, 15, and the other one I guess is a 17-year-old.

How in the hay did they get hooked up with Beelzebub straight out of Hell's Gates, Kyrie Brown? So Joseph Rolland worked as someone that would flip cars. You know how people flip houses. They take a house that may be in distress, a little older. They fix it up. They sell it, and they make a profit. He would do the same thing with vehicles.

So he was going to purchase this 2017 Toyota RAV4 on the Let Go app. Okay, wait, wait, wait. Stop right there. Stop right there. Troy Slayton, you know, my new book's coming out in September, end of September. I dedicated a whole chapter in Don't Be a Victim, Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave. You know why, Troy Slayton?

Because people like your clients use Craigslist and let go and they lure innocent, unsuspecting victims to their death. I mean, do you remember the Craigslist killer, Troy Slayton? He would answer people online and then would kill them. Remember that? Absolutely. There's a lot of crime. There's a lot of crime associated with it. Most of the time it's financial crime, bad checks. Oh, really? Tell that to the Craigslist killer victims' families. And here, Joe and Jocelyn look like they did everything that you would advise someone to do.

They went to an open place. They went to a mall. They didn't want to meet the person in a secluded place. They did what you would advise someone to do. And the killer tried to lure them back to his apartment, and they weren't willing to go with him. But what I would do here, if I were to be the defense attorney on this case, is I would get a forensic psychologist like Angela immediately on the case because I want to find mitigating circumstances. Oh, Lord, here we go. Hold on.

Hold on. Wait until you hear the whole thing before you jump up and start talking about mitigation. crime stories with nancy grace guys uh the victims in this case use something called let go and i'm about to tell you all about it but first take a listen to this on the night of august 14th when the rollins met up with brown the affidavit says he told them he had brought the wrong ownership title and asked them to follow him to his home according to the details of his interview in the affidavit that's when brown got out of his car pointed a gun at the couple and demanded the money for the car brown then alleges that joseph roland grabbed his arm according to the affidavit that's when brown admits to police that he intentionally shot jose Joseph and accidentally shot Jocelyn in their car.

The court record then says Brown told the investigators he drove the stolen car to an area near Havana Street and East Colfax Avenue in Aurora, where he then set it on fire. Let Go is an app that pulls right up on your phone. It's not just about cars. It's anything you want to buy or sell. It's the new genre of Craigslist. You were just hearing our friends at KUSA reporting on this. A mom and dad go to buy a used Toyota RAV4.

They're both shot dead. And I make it very, very clear in the pages and pages of tips to keep you safe insist on meeting in a public place you just heard that from Troy Slayton never go to the other party's home don't follow them if they show up without the documents or whatever it is they need at the meeting don't follow them anywhere and don't for them anywhere. And don't, for Pete's sake, invite them to your home. Take your cell phone with you. Take someone with you. Let others know where you are going. I mean, it goes on and on. Exercise extreme caution,

buying and selling. I mean, there's so many things that really are just common sense, but actually the Rolands followed many of those tips, and they're still dead. Back to you, Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. I now know what Let Go is. It's the new generation of Craigslist. So they find this guy, Kyrie Brown, on Let Go. Then what happens? So they met him in a mall. Like you say, that's where people want to meet, where people they're buying from out in public.

And Kyrie Brown says, I got my paperwork mixed up. I got the wrong paperwork. Can you follow me back to my apartment? Stop right there, Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Right there, Angela. Knowing what I know, having worked in the crime arena for so many years, I would say no, absolutely not. But why should they suspect anything nefarious? Well, I don't know. With the way everything goes on in this world today, I would always have my feelers up for something nefarious. Although I do feel like they probably, apparently this couple does this a lot.

They flip cars. And so they had a sense of calm about this, it sounds like. They had developed a sense of trust with the people that they were working with. And unfortunately, this was not a person that they could trust. From what I understand, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University and author, now the star of Poisonous Liaisons. Joe Scott, from what I am understanding from the police records we've been able to obtain, the mom and the dad died just five minutes apart. Now, that doesn't fit with Kyrie Brown, the shooter's scenario,

that he is floating out to see if cops will buy it. Number one, according to police documents that we've obtained, he confesses to killing the dad, shooting him dead. And Joseph Rowland was unarmed. But then he says he shot the mom by accident in her car. Yet they die five minutes apart. What can we learn about what really happened? Because you know I don't believe the defendant. From the forensics, Joe Scott, help me. I think range of fire is going to be critical here, Nancy, and this is why. Remember what you just said.

Talk regular people, talk police. You've already started off with range of fire. Well, what we're going to talk about is the fact that this, the shooter, their relationship to the victims is probably going to be relatively close. Remember what you said. Both of these people, these poor mom and dad, both died within five minutes of each other at the hospital. So that means that they were shot in a very critical area in their bodies. Maybe they were hit in the head. Maybe they were hit in the hospital. So that means that they were shot in a very critical area in their bodies. Maybe they were hitting the head, maybe they were hitting the chest. And that gives us an idea that if you're firing from a particular position, say right outside their window, remember he said,

I grabbed Joseph's arm. He grabbed the dad's arm as he began to move away and he fires. So we have to think that he's right outside his window and then he accidentally shoots the mama i find that very hard to believe but what we can learn is the fact that he was very very close to these people when he fired and so he's right there right there you seemingly for some unknown reason inexplicable joseph scott morgan you seem to be taking the defendant's word for what happened can we move back into your arena okay you're not a lie detector we don't know if he's telling the truth well actually i can tell you he's lying but let's talk about range of fire how we know from gsr gunshot residue exactly how close defendant was when he unloaded. Yeah, this is the point, Nancy. From the end of the weapon, which is called the end of the muzzle, that means where the projectile comes

out, it's going to spray out. It will literally spray out gunshot residue. Okay, so we're talking about things like unburned powder and any other debris that's in the barrel in addition to the projectile. And it will literally tattoo onto the body. And the closer the concentration of that debris that's coming out of the end of that barrel, the higher the likelihood that the individual is close. So the further we move away, like a water hose, the further we move away, the broader that stream is going to be. In this particular instance, it would not surprise me to find that the range of fire is probably within about 18 inches of Joseph's body, sir. I bet you something

else. I bet you with the husband who is maybe driving the vehicle, his car, I bet you it's point blank or enough to cause stippling, which means that the end of the muzzle, the circular end of the gun, is so close to the skin, maybe even a contact wound, that it looks like a tattoo mark of burning where the gunshot residue, the gunpowder, comes out of the gun. Now, typically, generally speaking, gunshot residue can go about 36 inches more or less. And as Joe Scott just told you, the more you have, the closer you are to the gun itself. Like he said, a water hose. You know, to you, Troy Slayton, you as a good defense attorney, can quash any, almost any, gunshot residue test in many different ways. I mean, think about the Robert Blake case.

What is the defense argument to gunshot residue evidence? Well, in this case, it may be that there was problems with the forensic collection. I know Joseph Scott Morgan isn't going to like it when I say that occasionally the people that are collecting evidence just don't do it the right way. And they may end up transferring gunshot residue when they're investigating the case themselves. And the technicians that are coming out and supposed to be collecting evidence are sometimes just doing stuff with simple things like paintbrushes and brown paper bags and don't properly preserve the evidence with plastic over hands and with other techniques on the body. I knew that you would find a way to blame the crime scene techs or the cops.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about a mom and dad who go to buy a used Toyota RAV4. They show up. They found it on an app called Let Go. It's like a modern-day Craigslist. Five children that look to be as young as seven or eight years old. Mommy and daddy are gunned down. Why?

They didn't even know this guy, Kyrie Brown. Now, we've been kicking around the forensic evidence at the scene, but I want you to hear what the defendant, Kyrie Brown, actually said. Take a listen to our friends at Fox 31 Denver. Brown admitted to detectives that he stole a RAV4, posted it for sale, and agreed to meet with Joseph Rowland to sell him the car. He told investigators when he got to the meeting spot on August 14th, he told Rowland he accidentally brought the wrong vehicle title

and had Rowland and his wife follow him across town. According to the arrest affidavit, Brown shared that he produced a 9mm He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the

back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in

the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in the back of his car. He was shot in across the victim and took money that was sitting on the center console, which is approximately $3,000. After the homicide, Kyrie Brown stated that he purposely set fire to the stolen car by means of pouring gasoline over the seat and igniting it somewhere near Havana Street and East Colfax Avenue. The victim's 17-year-old stepdaughter told police that her dad was in the business of flipping cars and she was actually supposed to be with her dad that night to help him drive the car

home, but she drove her boyfriend home instead. So Jocelyn went instead. What a travesty. What a series of events that ended up in a double homicide. Now, hold on just a moment. Levi Page, we are hearing the defendant and all he has to say about what happened that night, but not so fast. He didn't go to cops or take these people to the hospital. No. Cops had to find him. How did they find him? So investigators looked on the LetGo app and the account that he used to... Wait a minute. Wait, wait. They looked on the victim's phone. Yes.

Then they found the LetGo app. Then what happened? They were going to purchase a vehicle from Kyrie Brown and they found that his account on that app was deactivated after the shooting, but they found another account and it was trying to sell the same Toyota RAV4 that they were going to buy, the couple that was killed. Okay, stop right there, stop right there, stop, stop. Very important, subtle, but critical detail.

And I'll tell you why it's so important. He took down that listing immediately after he shot Mr. and Ms. Rowland, leaving behind five children orphaned. Then he listed the RAV4, same car, under a fake name. You know what that's called, Troy Slayton, right? It's the equivalent of flight. He knows he did something wrong. You started up our whole program today talking about, not about the two dead victims, the mom and dad, their children raised as orphans now, but about how if it were you, you would use a mental defect because he's already given a confession like what?

Temporary insanity? Compulsion? would use a mental defect because he's already given a confession like what temporary insanity compulsion i don't know what your idea you'd cook up back in your back office uh but you know what i imagine is witches around a witch's brew and you're right in there troy slayton double double toil and trouble cooking up some defense because right here like flight is indicia of guilt i mean why take off and leave if you haven't done anything wrong i mean when i pulled out of the car line this morning a drop off at the school i didn't take off at 90 mph because i hadn't done anything wrong right i just ease out of there so why did he assume a fake name and list the same car idiot on let go that's that's evidence of guilt that he knew what he did was wrong that's true that that could potentially be uh consciousness of guilt flight

is consciousness of guilt um those would be aggravating circumstances and i want to be looking at some of the mitigating circumstances. It sounds to me. Can you just address this instead of your mitigating circumstances? He gave a full confession to the police. I want to know if there was some coercion during that police interrogation. That he had. He's the one selling the car. He's the one taking the fake name. What, you want me to give him a gold star because he confessed to what happened? I think that when somebody gives a statement against penal interest, when they say that he, when he says that he shot the father and he accidentally shot the mother, I believe him.

Because somebody's not going to say something that implicates themselves and then typically lie about another part of it. Unless they're a creek without a paddle and you know what creek I'm talking about. Hey, hey, let's look at the rest of the evidence though. To Dr. Angie Arnold, Joe Scott Morgan, Levi Page, listen to this. Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, Levi, all right. So the police have the dead bodies. They're sent for autopsy. They don't know what happened.

They get Joseph Rowland's cell phone. They find the LetGo app on there. They find the RAV4. There's no longer an account listed to Kyrie Brown. They find the same RAV4 under a fake name, and because of the fake name, they use the mobile number that goes with Kyrie Brown and the RAV4. They find the mobile phone number through the online goods website. Let go. The phone pinged towers near the mall,

the apartment complex where Mr. and Ms. Rowland were gunned down dead, and the location where the car was burned. What car was burned, Levi Page? The Toyota RAV4. Could you tell me something, Levi? I'm looking at the devastated family. Oh, my stars. The little boy is standing there in a full-on suit with a vest and everything.

They're at the funeral, and there is a white casket covered in white flowers. I'm assuming that's Jocelyn Rowland. And there is another casket covered by the American flag. And there is a military person, three of them, surrounding the casket. Was he a veteran? I believe that he was. Just to top it all off, Troy Slayton, he kills a vet. Then to just add insult to injury, investigators trace the cell phone to its current location, pinging it, and he gives chase. He actually gives chase. Joseph Scott Morgan, I mean, what else can he do?

He burns the RAV4. He uses a fake name. He chase he hides out what he's not helping the police do anything he's trying to impede the investigation no he's he's like a he's like a fly that's caught on you know fly paper you know the the more he kind of moves around and does these things to deceive, the more stuck he gets, you know, and look, from forensic standpoint, all we have to do is, you know, just look at the arson he initiated with this stolen vehicle. You know, you put that gasoline in his hand, and that's used as an accelerant, which means to start the fire within that vehicle. Well, that gas that he utilized is going to have a very

specific chemical signature that can be tied back to the gas can that he used. That's why we do arson investigation. That puts it in his hand. And then all the deception with the apps as well, and the pinging off the cell towers, all of these are specific forensic, I like to refer to them as tiebacks that go back to one central position, and it turns out to be this guy. Take a listen to our cut three, Katie Johnson, KCNC, CBSN, Denver. 18-year-old Kyrie Brown is now charged with murder, accused of killing a couple who met him to buy a used car. Investigators say Brown admitted to stealing the 2017 Toyota RAV4 and then posting it for sale on the LetGo app.

Then met Joseph and Jocelyn Rawland at the Southlands Mall. He told the couple he accidentally brought the wrong vehicle title with him, asked them to follow him to an apartment. Investigators say that's where Brown admits he pulled a gun, demanded money and shot Joseph when he tried to drive off, then accidentally shot Joslyn. The couple leaves behind five children, and police say after the shooting, Brown posted the car for sale on the app again under a different name. You know, it just keeps getting worse and worse. Levi Page, the children are left without parents.

I understand that there is a fund. Is it a GoFundMe? What is it to help the children? They have no security, nothing. What's going to happen to them? So Nancy, this GoFundMe has actually raised over $200,000 for the family. One of the kids' godparents set up the GoFundMe for them. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about the murders of a young mom and dad leaving five children behind, now raised as orphans. Nothing can ever, ever replace mom and dad, ever. And you know that. There's a GoFundMe, and the way I found it, I just went to GoFundMe and put You can go to gofundme.com slash the-roland-kids.

This is by far not the first time that someone has been murdered and more by answering an ad online. It's so upsetting for innocent people like the Rowlands to be gunned down, leaving all these children without a mom and dad. That's going to change their lives forever. The wake of pain Kyrie Brown has left behind him in his greed will never be known, really. These children will grow up with the shadow of murder hanging over them. How will it change how they raise their children, or if they will even have children after this? There's so many ways to keep safe. Don't be a victim fighting back against America's crime wave.

Proceeds going to National Center for Missing and Exploited Children goes into how to stay safe online. Not to scare you, but to arm you with facts to keep you safe and your children safe. Jackie, this is by far not the first time someone has died answering an online ad. Take a listen to our friends at WGXATV. Bud Runyon was a Vietnam veteran and owned a Ford Mustang back in the 1960s. His daughters previously said that their dad wanted to have a Mustang similar to the one that he had after the war. And after seeing the car on Craigslist, the Runyons drove south in their SUV to meet Ronnie Towns to buy it. When they didn't return to Marietta to babysit their grandchildren the next day,

family members knew something was wrong. Crews searched wooded areas and bodies of water nearby, even using a helicopter to search from the air. The Runyons were later found near the SUV, which was underwater in a lake. They were laid to rest in Mariana. Towns later turned himself in. Now, in a legal twist, the indictment in that case was dismissed. They've just been handed down a new indictment in that case. The Georgia Supreme Court reversed the indictment and it had to be completely redone. Take a listen to WGXA-TV. Telfair County Sheriff Chris Steverson says the Runyon's placed an ad on Craigslist looking for a 1966 Ford Mustang convertible. Sheriff

Steverson tells us Ronnie Towns Jr. responded to the ad and lured the couple to Telfair County Thursday. Earlier in the investigation, deputies say Towns lied to deputies about contacting the Runyons with a cell phone. He was being held on charges of theft by deception, which were upgraded to robbery and murder Tuesday. I think we've made a huge amount of progress. We continue to investigate. We continue with all of our partner agencies that are involved working arm in arm. Autopsy results show the Runyons were both shot in the head with a small caliber firearm. Their bodies hidden near the lake where the Runyon's vehicle was submerged. All because this Vietnam War veteran who owned a Ford Mustang back in the 60s wanted a similar car now that he could afford one. What we know is the defendant in this case, Jay Towns, fired from his job at a tree removal service, desperate for money.

Instead of getting another job, buys a throwaway cell phone and began contacting people interested in buying cars and other things. And that is how he met up with his two victims. You know, that's just the tip of the iceberg. What happened to the Runyon family? Take a listen to Nina Harrelson, WREG-TV. 22-year-old Cameron Dillard is charged with a specially aggravated robbery after police say he lured another man with a Facebook marketplace ad for a car, but instead pistol whipped, robbed, and shot him. I got a car like somebody had been shot in front of my house, but I tried to pull up on the street and the police had caution tape up and you couldn't get through. It all unfolded Wednesday night. So we could go

on and on with victims killed answering online ads. You know, to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, understand, and I'm reading this verbatim, it's one of the like hundreds of tips, actually thousands of tips that are in the new book, Don't Be a Victim. Understand that you may be dealing with anyone from a little old lady to a violent felon. The internet does not vet who buys and sells online. Now, interesting in the Runyon case where the Vietnam vet was gunned down. In that case, the guy with his throwaway cell phone was caught contacting dozens and dozens of people to lure them to basically steal whatever cash or car that they had. There may be other victims of that guy that we just don't know about and they're assumed to

be missing right now. What do you advise? Yeah, you need to be careful. You know, I think that in this world that we live in with the anonymity of the internet, you know, these apps that are out there, we kind of drop our guard because we live, you know, everybody talks about how we live in this electronic bubble now, and we do. And what folks don't understand is that it is still a damn dangerous world outside of that bubble, and maybe even more dangerous because people are more easily, it would seem at least, victimized. So you have to be careful, Nancy. You don't know who is on the other end of that ad, who's on the other end of that line. And it's so widespread now. It used to

be, you know, you and I both are from small towns in the South. It used to be we knew our neighbors, okay? But now, in this world that we live in, it's so far flung, you could be talking to anybody. As a matter of fact, we learned from the prosecutor in the GBI in the Runyon case, the perp who, by the way, the bodies were found not far from his parents' 300-acre farm. So this guy was not uneducated, illiterate, had no hope of going further in life, desperate. His parents have a 300-acre farm. Long story short, he had been using the same disposable cell phone to call other people looking for antique cars and all sorts of items. And apparently, he had none of those items.

He would just lure them there and then kill them. For all we know, there could be other victims out there that are now simply reported as missing. To Levi Page, I want to circle back to Jocelyn and Joseph Rowland, whose family, their five children now growing up as orphans. What more do we know about the case? Where are the children and is Kyrie Brown facing the death penalty? We don't know if Kyrie Brown is facing the death penalty, Nancy, but just to tell you more about how he was captured when they got his cell phone information and they used it to track down his location, he was in the passenger seat of another vehicle and when used it to track down his location. He was in the passenger seat of

another vehicle. And when police went to approach the vehicle, it sped off and they were apprehended. But they tried to flee from police. So that tells you something right there. They knew that they were in trouble. Yeah. Have fun with that at trial. Troy Slayton, criminal defense attorney, joining me out of L.A. If you have any information that could help the Rowland family, 720-913-STOP. 720-913-7867. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story story signing off goodbye friend this is an iheart podcast