Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mom fights back, beats up man trying to carjack minivan and kids

Episode Date: November 19, 2018

What would you do if a man suddenly jumped up from the back of your minivan and tried to hijack your car -- with your children inside? Texas mom Dorothy Baker did not hesitate to fight back when it happened to her. Baker was so fierce the man eventually fled from the vehicle, but she wasn't finished with him. She ran over the attacker and held him until police arrived to arrest him. Nancy Grace talks to Baker about her determination to protect her family in the face of danger. They are joined by forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, lawyer and psychologist Dr. Brian Russell , juvenile judge and lawyer Ashley Willcott, and reporter Nicole Partin. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'd rather have that any day of the week than a plastic toy or, God forbid, a toy gun. Join Justice Nation. Go to crimestopshere.com. The mother walked out of CVS with her two kids. She put them in the back seat of the vehicle. Even though her locks didn't always work, she never even imagined that somebody could be hiding in the back. You don't come after people with kids. And I told him that he messed with the wrong witch. That wrong witch is named Dorothy Baker because of her quick thinking. Two-year-old Jaden and five-year-old Xavier are safe tonight. They were all shopping at CVS when police say 54-year-old Ismael Martinez hid in their unlocked van. He popped up out of the back seat and said that if I didn't want my kids to get hurt, that I would do exactly what he said. Don't mess with Texas, or at least a Texas mommy.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I am writing a book, a nonfiction about how to stop crime. And I've been poring over facts and statistics, and this name popped up, Dorothy Baker. And when I read her story, I have to share it with you. It could just save your life. How many times have I walked into the Eckerd's, as I call every single drugstore I go into, whether it's Rite Aid or Walgreens or CVS, I call it all the Eckerd's. We were going into

Eckerd's. We came out and I realized I had not locked my car and I couldn't believe that I had done that. How many times, moms, have you done that, dads? Well, Dorothy Baker came out of the CVS, took off with her two little boys, and was attacked by a man in the way back, the far back seat, and with me right now to tell the story herself. She lived to tell the tale. The mom who not only fought back against a carjacker, she put him in the hospital. I could not be happier. Dorothy Baker, welcome. Thank you for being with us. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Dorothy Baker, I appreciate your long pause when you said he messed with the wrong witch. But I want to hear the whole story from the very beginning. First of all, you're going to the CVS. Was it in broad daylight? It was, yes. It was broad daylight. What time of the day was it? It was towards the morning. It was probably around 10 o'clock that morning. Dang. I mean, also joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Nicole Parton, juvenile judge and lawyer, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com, Ashley Wilcott, hit show host, investigation discovery, fatal vows, Dr. Brian Russell, and forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan,

author of Blood Beneath My Feet, forensics professor, Jacksonville State University. It's hard to believe, Ashley Wilcott, first thing in the morning coming out of the CVS, you got to be ready for a perv in the backseat of your car. That's kind of hard to take in. Can you imagine, and you have a two-year-old and a five-year-old, which of us wouldn't freak out? And you don't imagine that. You'd think that would never happen to you. And, you know, here she gets in the car and look who's hidden in the car. Well, don't mess with Texas. I just can't say it enough. Baytown mom, Dorothy Baker, takes two of her six children, you a medal lady with her to cvs when she got back in the car with her children a perv is hiding inside with a knife so dorothy you go into

the cvs and you come back you've got your two little boys what What happened then? I got them in the car. We went through the driver's side front seat, and I had them climb over the seat. My 5-year-old was buckling up my 2-year-old, and we take off. What kind of car is it? It was a Dodge Grand Caravan. It was a minivan. So you have a minivan like me okay um as i always say lucy asked me the other day dorothy mom are we ever getting a new car i said no never this is our car for the rest of our life we call it the war wagon um so you're

getting into a van and you all get in on the driver's side. Now, does it have one of those instant door openers where you just push the button and it opens? No, it, it, it didn't have that. Um, but my key fob, um, I guess there, there was some kind of factory default or something like that or defect. And when you would press the key fob to lock the doors the doors looked locked but they didn't always lock and i wasn't i yeah i wasn't aware of

that jackie howard here in the studio saying that happened to her so you all get in we do that too i like everybody to get in on one side because i try to park on the side where there's not the traffic so we get in on the side without traffic so we also all get in on one side so they get in Dodge Caravan on your side the driver's side and I'm pretty sure that you did not go and search the far back and you get in they put on their seat belts and then what happened um i i drive away and um my son my my oldest boy decided that he was gonna um unbuckle his seat belt to try to get the donut and i told him to to sit down Wait a minute. How do donuts get into this? Where were the donuts? We had actually saw the man at Kroger's right across the street. I went to Kroger's first.

You saw him at Kroger. Yeah. And I was walking into Kroger's because I was going to grab a few items and then turn in a Redbox DVD. Did you say Kroger's with an S on the end? Yes. See, okay, I thought nobody did that, but everyone in my hometown of Macon, Georgia, either says Kroger's or the Kroger's, okay?

So I say it too. I have been corrected all right so you see this guy in Kroger all right then what happened um well when when I first saw him I had to pass by him I thought maybe he might have been a worker but um like the the feeling that I got when I saw him, my whole body just kind of moved away from him. Like I don't need to be around him. He had a very bad vibe. If you can believe that. Hold on right there. I hate to keep interrupting you, Dorothy Baker, but you're just giving me so much information. I'm like drinking from a fire hydrant. Hold on.

Hold on. Dr. Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist, and you in all your degrees, very often I think you poo-poo me when I say people have a gut reaction. And I say that, quote, hunch is bred, born of thousands of years of evolution, things that you notice that you may not even realize you notice. I mean, we're not at the top of the food chain for nothing, Dr. Brian. Okay. So there's something about this guy that rubs her the wrong way that she just physically wanted to get away from him. And as she says, Kroger's. What about

that, Dr. Bryan? I don't disagree with anything that you just said. I don't poo-poo that at all. And I love this woman. I love this woman. I think she's a hero. And I think, you know, anybody who thinks that there's anything wrong with this or God forbid, as we've seen in a couple of similar cases where people think, oh, well, we can't have vigilanteism. We have to file some charges against this woman. Come on. The law should be, it should be that you try to carjack a woman and her kids, she gets to run you down. Hey, long story short, this is self-defense as far as I'm concerned. Take a listen to this.

She says Martinez waved around a large knife. He directed her through nearby neighborhoods, demanding she stop at an ATM. Baker kept driving, but used one hand to try to call 911. He climbed over the seat on top of me me and he was trying to get my phone. When Baker refused, she says Martinez got violent, slashing her chest and biting her hand. I took my fist and I hit him in the face and I told him to get out of my car. Once he got out, this mother revved her engine. Before she knew it, her would-be attacker was screaming from underneath her car. I didn't mean to run him over. I was just trying to stop him so he

didn't hurt anybody else. He's my hero. Take her anywhere. I'll take her anywhere twice on Sunday. Martinez was lifelighted to Memorial Hermann Hospital with serious injuries. We're safe, and that's what matters. You are hearing KTRK-TV's Pooja Lodia talking about superstar Dorothy Baker, who saved her two little boys, two of six, I might add. She needs a medal for that. You are just hearing Charles Flusjans talking right now with us. Dorothy Baker. Dorothy goes into CVS with two of her little boys, ages two and five, I believe,

comes out, gets in the car. She thought her Dodge Caravan was locked. It wasn't. They all get in. They drive off. And suddenly this perv that she had just spotted in Kroger, emerges from the backseat. That's what I want to talk about. Dorothy, again, thank you for being with us. How did you first realize this freak was in your car?

When I told my five-year-old son at the time, he got up to get some donuts, and I told him to sit down. Well, when he went to sit back down, he actually saw the guy, and he said, hey, who are you? Oh, my stars. And I looked in my rearview mirror, and that's when he grabbed my son and put the knife to my son's throat. Dorothy, right now I have got chills on both of my arms and legs. I remember one time John David had had a blow to the head on a basketball court, a really bad one.

He was in the hospital for four days. And we thought he was okay. Then about two or three weeks later, I was putting Lucy to bed, and he went, I see two mommies. And I'll never forget that feeling because I thought, oh, my stars. He's got a slow bleed to his brain. Luckily, that is not what happened. But that moment you hear that sentence and it sticks with you forever.

And you heard your little boy say, hey, who are you? And then what happened? Well, I was kind of shocked i i gasped and um the first thought in my head i mean he's got a knife to your son's throat first thought in my head was don't panic um because i knew if i if I panicked, none of us were getting out of there alive at all. There was no way. My second thought was, he really messed up. You don't mess with my kids at all.

But at that point, you are you actually you're driving yes i'm still and he's in the back or the middle seat with a knife to your son's throat yeah he's he's in the third what did he say i asked him i said what do you want and he said um you're going to do what I tell you to do or your kids are going to get hurt. And I said, so what do you want? He said, I need some money. And I said, I don't have any cash on me. He said, well, you're going to figure out how to get it or your kids are going to get hurt.

And I said, okay. Okay. At this point, were you in the parking lot or were you on the highway? No, I was actually driving through the neighborhood almost to my house. Almost stars. Thank goodness you didn't get all the way to your house and he gets in your house. So then what happens? No, I turned away and my first thought was to go back to Kroger's because it's a populated area.

I knew I needed to get around more people because I'd have a better chance and my kids would have a better chance at surviving the situation. But then he told me not to go back to Kroger's. So he figured out what you were doing. I mean, Joe Scott Morgangan you're the forensics expert she's driving she's got another child and he's got a knife to the little boy's throat i mean

what could she do at that point she's driving i mean if she tried to jump out of the car he could kill the boy or the car could be you know just take on a life of its own and kill everybody in it. And yeah, you're kind of in a lose-lose situation here. I am absolutely amazed by this woman's bravery and just how cool she is in this moment in time. But I think that that cool that you hear is kind of a steely vengeance that's about to be visited upon this guy. To CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Nicole Parton, and all of this started at the local CVS across the street from Kroger. Right, something that most of us as moms do weekly.

We go out to a local area, we think we're safe, we think we're shopping, we think everything's going to be okay. We go out and we're suddenly attacked. It can happen to any of us at any time, unfortunately. What's so amazing is A, she lived, but B, when she first saw this guy in Kroger, she knew. She felt physically moved to just get away from him so Dorothy here you are you're back in your neighborhood he's got a knife to your son's throat he tells you don't go back to Kroger what do you do um I keep him talking I keep looking in my rearview mirror as I'm driving um I slow down my speed um I mean it's only 20 miles an hour through the neighborhood but I I slow down my speed. I mean, it's only 20 miles an hour through the neighborhood, but I slow down

significantly. I'm creeping probably going about 10, maybe 15 miles an hour because I need as much time as possible to assess how I'm going to get him away from my kids and up into the front seat with me. That's my only objective at this particular time. I need him away from my kids. And he's giving me directions. Oh, he's giving you directions. You know, another thing, Dorothy Baker, Texas mom, you only saw him because your son said, hey, who are you? He was back there, I guarantee you, trying to get to your home.

And the Lord only knows what would have been unleashed if this guy had gotten into your home with you and your children and gotten you in there. Take a listen to this. The man in her van, police say, was Ismael Martinez. He threatened Baker and her kids with a knife. He was looking for $200. I told him I didn't have any cash. Martinez. He threatened Baker and her kids with a knife. He was looking for 200 bucks. I told him I didn't have any cash and he said I better figure out a way to get some or he was gonna hurt my kids. Baker knew she had to act fast. Martinez, she said, climbed into the front seat and was standing in the middle attacking her while she drove. That's KPRC TV's Jennifer

Bauer. How did he get from the back up to the front seat, Dorothy? When he was giving me directions, he asked me to take a left on a street on East James. And that left turn would have more than likely ended our lives. And I know this. he wanted me to go to an atm at a gas station that was very rarely ever used there wouldn't have been any way for me to get help it's it's mostly abandoned during the day except for the cashier i didn't even know if the cameras worked and all i thought was i'm not leaving you in the kids in the car with my kids you're not going to get out and follow me into the into the um gas station so this is not going to work so instead of making that left I made a right and he got mad asked me if I was

crazy he said lady are you crazy you're trying to get your kids hurt? Well, as he's saying that, he's climbing over the seats and into the front seat with me. And that was all that mattered to me at the time. Why was that all that mattered to you? Because he was away from my kids. I can't do anything. I can't help my kids if he's right there by my kids. I can help my kids better if he's away from me. So that lands him right beside you in the front seat with a knife. Yes, ma'am. window treatments is one of those terms for something necessary but boring your blinds you don't even think about them unless you move or they break well when they're right everything in

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Rules and restrictions do apply. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The man in her van police say was Ismael Martinez. He threatened Baker and her kids with a knife. He was looking for 200 bucks. I told him I didn't have any cash and he said I better figure out a way to get some or he was gonna hurt my kids. Baker knew she had to act fast. Martinez, she said, climbed into the front seat and was standing in the middle, attacking her while she drove. So you managed to get him away from the children when you take that right turn, when he ordered you to take a left to a pretty much, I want to say rural,

but deserted to an ATM where hardly anyone goes at a gas station. You didn't want to do that. I can't believe you had the wherewithal to turn right. And he jumps in the front seat with you and a knife and attacks you. Dorothy Baker, what happened? While I'm, I mean, before that, while I'm driving, I'm trying to dial 911 without him seeing me with my phone. And when he ends up jumping into the, climbing over the seats and into the front seat, he saw me with my phone and he tried to get it. And I, I moved my hand, but I hit my hand on the door and my phone dropped in between the door and the seat. And he's trying to get it.

I'm trying to drive. And when he realized he couldn't get it, that's when he tries to flip my throat and I'm fighting him trying to drive. And my kids are screaming in the backseat. I'm trying to keep the knife away from any part of my body. And I see a telephone pole on the right-hand side of the road. And my first thought is he's not wearing a seatbelt. If I hit that pole, if I go fast enough, he'll go through the windshield. If I don't go fast enough, he'll at least hit his head hard enough to where he may be dazed. And I can fight him off and finish talking to or calling 911, do something. So I swerve up into the grass.

Man, Dorothy, Tom Cruise could use you on Mission Impossible. So you have the wherewithal. I can't believe this. You have the wherewithal. This guy is trying to slit your throat. And as a matter of fact, he slashes you all the way across your chest over your heart. You have the wherewithal to think there's a telephone pole. We all have on our seatbelts.

He doesn't. How did you keep the knife away from your neck um i'm driving with one hand and i'm constantly switching hands depending on on where the knife was i was constantly switching hands keeping my hand one hand on the steering wheel and the other hand fighting really it was my right hand because i'm i'm right-handed. So I was mainly using my right hand to fight him off. And I managed to push him. So he went for your throat? He went for your throat with a knife? He went for my throat first and then tried my side and then my legs. He was trying to do some damage. He was not just messing around. So he slashed you all the way across your

chest at the time when you were slashed with the knife across your chest over your heart. Did you even feel the pain or were you in shock? What happened? I didn't feel anything. But I thought bigger and better than you have tried to end me and it's not going down like this. So when. So you make for the telephone call. I do. And I missed it. I was mad.

But I slammed on the brakes and it kind of gave him gave enough momentum to where I could push him into the passenger seat. And I put it in park and I'm, and I'm now I'm earnestly trying to get his knife away from him. It wasn't just the knife. It wasn't just the knife attack. Listen. She struggled to get the knife away and says Martina's bitter. She has the marks on her hand to prove it. When I managed to push him off, landed with his back against my passenger seat. And that's when I took my fist and I punched him in the face and I told him to get out of my car. Martinez did. And while he ran away, Baker hit him with her car.

That wasn't my intention. I was trying to stop him so he didn't hurt anybody else. And he messed with the wrong woman. And you don't come after a woman with kids. I just can't even take in Ashley Wilcott, everything she's saying. You get in your car from CVS in the middle of the—it's 10 in the morning. And drive off, and only when your son unlocks the seatbelt and tries to get in the back to get the donuts and says, Hey, who are you? Do you find out a perv is in the back with a knife, grabs your son, holds it to his throat, and demands money? It's like a horrible movie, Ashley.

Yeah, you can't even imagine the shock that you would experience. But I would say this, a couple things. One of all, first of all, I'm a Texas girl. And I'm so proud of this lady, because this is amazing. Second of all, which of us as parents wouldn't do whatever we had to do to protect our children. I think that's the significant piece here. She had two children in the car, you're going to do whatever it takes as a mama bear to protect your children. And she was brave enough to do it to Brian Russell, Dr. Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, host of ID's Fatal Vows, I mean, you brought up,

some people call this vigilante justice. I say it's self-defense. No jury in there. First of all, any prosecutor that put this lady up to the grand jury to get her indicted for running the guy down, he would be voted, he, she would be voted out of office next term and a jury would laugh the prosecutor out of court.

No way she needs a medal, not a felony charge of running the guy down. I'm glad she ran him down, Brian. I am, too. And I this this is something that, you know, you and I have talked about before. I can't understand how anybody listening to this could see it differently than that. But unfortunately, you know, I'm continually amazed in this country that there are people who will see this and go, well, we can't have that. We're going to have to make a statement here that we're not going after people on our own, taking the lawn to our own hands. Come on, give me a break. This woman's a hero. Give her a medal and be done with it.

What I have to say about that is BS, and that's a very technical legal term, Joseph Scott Morgan. This case would be laughed out of court if somebody tried to put a charge on her. Yeah, and particularly amongst our friends in Texas. I can see them laughing this guy or gal out of the courthouse if they try to bring this poor grand jury for an indictment. Again, I am amazed at what she was doing.

Look, vigilantism to me is like you make a plan, you go out and take revenge. This woman is acting. She is acting. Her heart is pumping. She's thinking about fight and flight. And she's going to do whatever she has to do to protect her babies. And that's what this is all about. Guys, Ismael Martinez gets a knife and gets into Dorothy Baker's backseat and waits. Waits like a wolf, like a fox, like a coyote for her and her little boys to get back in. Well, she turned the tables on him. Dorothy, after this guy bit you, attacked you, hit you,

tried to slice your throat, your legs, slice across your heart and your chest. You punch him in the nose and somehow force him out of the car. Then what happened? Well, he when he bit my hand, he was trying to get me to let go of his knife because I had his knife by then. And I've got the scars on my hand to prove it. Wait, you managed to disarm

Ismael Martinez? You got the knife away from him? Yeah, I got the knife away from him. And that's why he bit my hand. Did you punch him in the face? I did. Did you punch him in the face? Where did it land? I hope in the nose because that really hurts.

I had the knife in my right hand and he bit my hand. And when he realized that I wasn't going to let go, he just kind of looked at me and I switched the knife from my right hand to my left hand and I just hauled off and punched him square in the jaw and he looked at me shocked. Yeah, this whole thing had totally gone sideways for him. Listen. Today, a family is safe because of one mother's brave act. You don't come after people with kids and I told him that he messed with the wrong witch. Dorothy Baker and her two young children were shopping at a CVS in Baytown, Texas,

when police say 54-year-old Ismael Martinez hid in Baker's unlocked van. He popped up out of the back seat and said that if I didn't want my kids to get hurt, that I would do exactly what he said. I didn't mean to run him over. I was just trying to stop him so he didn't hurt anybody else. That's her story, and she is sticking to it. You're hearing KTRK-TV's Pooja Lodia speaking with our superstar Dorothy Baker, who is with us right now, a carjacker, sneaks into Mommy's car. She's in the Eckerds, as I call it, the CVS, with her two little boys, two of six. When they get back in the car, he's hiding in the back seat with a knife.

But not only did Dorothy Baker manage to punch him in the face, she wrestled the knife away from ismael martinez kicks him out of the minivan and then whoopsie runs over him so dorothy baker when all of this is happening and with me right now from baytown texas dorothy baker what are your boys doing during all of this um at some point, uh, my, my youngest at the time, he was, um, he had stopped crying. Um, and my five-year-old, he actually hid. He, he really didn't, um, he didn't do much anything. He was in shock. I mean, when, when the guy grabbed him, I could see my, like all the life go out of my son's face.

Um, so that was, that was not a good, not a good feeling. So, but my kids, they, they were, they were safe and they didn't get hurt. There was no, no cuts on them. No, no, nothing. Well, let me ask you this. One goes into basically shock mode. Which one was in shock and which one was screaming his head off? My two-year-old, he was the one in the car seat screaming. And my older boy, the five-year-old, he was the one that went into shock. To Dorothy Baker joining me now, do you remember the moment you hit the gas and mowed him down? Yeah, I do. I was watching him run away.

And what went through my head was he was at Kroger's. He was close enough to walk there. He didn't have a vehicle he had a knife this time what happens if I see him next time and he has a gun and I have all my kids or what happens if there's a mother who doesn't isn't going to be able to to help her kids and she panics and she's got a baby and he goes after her and I to myself, I'll be darned if I'm going to let that happen and watch him walk away. And my intention was as he was running away was I went after him and I had my door to where I was going to open it and hit him with it. And when we were, when I was driving behind him, he made a swerve,

and I had sped up just right then at, I guess, the perfect time, and I heard him hit my tires. And the only thing I thought after that was, oh, my God, I'm going to jail because I just killed this man. What's going to happen to my kid? Dorothy, at that time, you had no idea that this guy had already done hard jail time on a rape conviction.

No, I didn't know. He was stalking you at the grocery store. Didn't matter that you had two little children. He got in your car with a knife knowing you would get back in. He knew which car you got out of. He watched you

leave Kroger and grow across the street he followed you he got into your car and was waiting on you I think the whole ATM thing was a ruse I think he was after you or your children to Nicole part and joining me crime online comm investigative reporter. Martinez had already done hard jail time for rape. What happened to him after he gets run down by Dorothy? That's true. This guy, obviously no saint, a sexual offender.

He had been jailed on this rape conviction. But thanks to Dorothy, not anymore. He, of course, was injured. He was air flighted to the hospital where he was going to be charged once he was released from the hospital pending the outcome. So this guy was life flighted. Yes, he was in serious condition. For some reason, I'm not crying. Dorothy Baker with us. Dorothy, when you got your children home and they were safe, what did they want to know?

What were their questions? Well, the two that were with me, they didn't really have any. The other ones, they were making sure that we were okay. They saw the cuts and they asked me if I needed to go to the hospital, you know, if I was okay. We just kind of hugged and were happy that everybody was safe. In the weeks and months that followed the incident, how did that affect your boys? They were very reserved. And even to this day, my two-year-old, he's very leery about people. He doesn't like anybody. So if he does, it's almost a miracle. He's very quiet at school. Even my 10-year-old, he's very quiet.

And we just basically stay to ourselves honestly they go to school I go to work they come home and that's that's pretty much the extent of our our lives. Do you feel that it changed your life? Yeah it did I mean, it's not something that you want to ever go through. Lucky for me, I'm a chronic overthinker and overanalyzer. So I put myself in certain scenarios and try to figure out what I would do if this would happen. And mainly the conclusion that I always come to is if I panic, I'm not going to survive any of the situations. And that's one thing that, you know, I want other people to understand is that no matter what happens, if you panic, it's going to make a situation worse. You have to stay calm and clear headed so you can think logically about what's going to happen and what you can do to get out of the situation.

That's the most important thing. I mean, it's not something that you ever think could happen to you. Has it changed the way that you behave or how you travel or how you go around with your children? It is. It always did. I didn't drive my van. I actually got rid of it. I still to this day will not let my kids in the car until I've looked in the car. I am always very observant of my surroundings and the people around me. I watch if they're following me or if they're going in the same direction.

If I feel like someone's following me, I'll make detours to see. Things like that. I mean, it's made me very, very untrusting of people. Just so you know, I have done a little research on Ismael Martinez. The same Ismael Martinez was sentenced to 30 years on aggravated robbery. He also had possession of an illegal substance, arson, burglary in a building, and rape. On the rape charge, he had gotten 40 years, but he was out and about. When you look back on this, Dorothy Baker, what do you think? I think if I would have made that left turn, I think he would have upped it to murder, to be honest with you. I don't think he had any intention of allowing me or my kids to go free. Dorothy Baker saved not only her life, but the lives of her two little boys.

And hopefully her story will save other lives. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.