Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mom found alone and dead in upscale home, family begs for answers

Episode Date: July 26, 2018

Kay Thomasson was fatally stabbed at her Atlanta suburb home by a killer who took her car and abandoned it at an apartment complex several miles away. Security video shows a man walking near the crime scene and police are offering a $100,000 reward for help finding him. Nancy Grace digs into the case with former federal prosecutor Francey Hakes, forensic psychiatrist Dr. Daniel Bober, prosecutor Kenya Johnson, and reporter John Lemley. Joleen Cummings disappeared over 2 months ago, but a woman who was seen in security video driving her car has been jailed. Grace updates the search for Cummings with forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, psychologist Caryn Stark, lawyer & juvenile judge Ashley Willcott, and CrimeOnline.com reporter Leigh Egan. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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the data together in one report. Members get unlimited searches, so you can also look up those close to you and make sure they're not hiding something. Visit truthfinder.com slash Nancy. Enter your own name. Get started. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph. Right now, police on a manhunt for a suspect who fatally stabs a loving mom dead in the neck. We want justice. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I'm talking about a lovely mom, her family pleading,

pleading with the public to help catch the killer. And this is amazing to me because we've actually got who I believe to be the killer on videotape. Now you'd think, well, there you go. Go ahead and book him. Uh-uh. It ain't that easy. The videotape, and this happened to me once in a bank robbery case, which I may tell later, I will say the bank robber was dyslexic. His bank note said, don't touch the Alram. This is a Robie. Once I got the jury past that, I started making a little headway. But I know what it feels like, as do many people joining me this morning, to have videotape or photographs and they're blurry. You can't make it out. It is the devil is in the details. We've got this guy seemingly coming out of nowhere from a hedge or some bushes at a very unusual hour going toward her home but i can't make him out that well you know what let's go to john lindley

crime stories investigative reporter john take it from the top k Thomason, alone in her upscale Sandy Springs home, according to police, she we know had a blunt force trauma and stabbed in the neck. But let's start at the get-go. Tell me what happened that night. From all accounts, Nancy, Kay Thomason was the perfect mother, grandmother, even neighbors say that she was one of those people that you could always count on. Now, she wasn't what you'd call a social butterfly. She kept to herself. But if someone needed something, there was no one more dependable than Kay Thomason. Now, hold on. Hold on. Wait a minute, John Limley. I don't know what you mean by social butterfly. You know, you know what? Let's go to the other ladies joining me this morning. Francie Hakes, former federal prosecutor. And Francie, you have got such a mouthful of a

title. No offense, but let me think how it went. You were the first federal, okay, you know what you tell me, in charge of child abductions and extradition. This position was actually formed for her by the federal government. Give me your whole title, Francie. Well, Nancy, don't blame me for it. It's Congress. They invented it. It was called the National Coordinator for Child Exploitation Prevention and Interdiction. You said that, not me. Okay. I did not say that. Also with me, in addition to Francie Hakes, is Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist. Dr. Bober, I don't know how you managed to work us in amidst all the insane criminal lunatics you're dealing with every day, but thank you. My pleasure. Okay. I don't know, Alan, if you and Jackie and I fit into that category.

Kenya Jackson with me, veteran Atlanta prosecutor, and, of course, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, John Lindley. You know, John, I take issue with what you just said. Oh, goodness. She's not a social butterfly. You know what? Let me just go out to Francie and Kenya by the time I get up at 4 30 to 5 o'clock every morning and I make the children's breakfast and I

make dinner and set the table and work on serious and work on crime stories and work on a book and work on hallmark then wake up the children and get them to school and then come back home and this and that and that and this and this and that and suddenly it's time to get them and i have a whole night of work you know what uh i don't know what you mean by social butterfly you know i don't know if you know this john limley or not but most women are expected to fully take care of the home. I guess that includes the yard. The children, that includes dressing them, feeding them, keeping them clean in all their crevices, keeping them healthy, feeding them, getting them to school, making sure they have everything that they're supposed to have, making money, and bringing it home, and supporting the family. Okay, so Francie Hakes, I don't know

what he means by she's not a social butterfly. The woman has, works rental properties. She has children, three children. She takes care of this home in addition to working rental properties she has children three children she takes care of this home in addition to working rental properties i mean what does john lindley want her to do that's a great point nancy it brings a me to mind of the old commercial remember she can bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan this one was obviously doing all that yeah i mean yeah i don't even know what you're saying john lindley you just better back off on this one okay and quit the giggling it's not attractive now john lindley now that we have appropriately you know flogged you now can we get back to what happened to this

lady certainly now we were talking about how I noticed Alan Duke got really, really quiet. He tiptoed away. He knows better. That's because his wife is nearby and she is not putting up with any of this. OK, back to this lady, because I mean, it's killing me about this woman. And how can they not have any clues when they've got the guy on videotape? OK, again, start at the beginning. Certainly. Now, as we were talking about, this woman was, if anything, dependable. And that dependability was something that actually carried over to her schedule as well. If there was

something on her calendar on a set day, a given day, you better believe she was going to keep that appointment. And that is what first raised an alarm to family members when they found out that she was a no-show, that she had not made an appointment earlier that day. Different family members then tried calling Kay. There was no answer. This went on for a couple of hours. So around 7 o'clock that night, Kay's granddaughter grabbed a couple of friends and went over to the woman's house there in Sandy Springs, just north of Atlanta, to find out what was going on. Oh, my stars. Oh, my stars. Oh, my stars. I'm just thinking Dr. Daniel Bober, psychiatrist, joining us. I've been ribbing John Lindley the last couple of minutes, but just imagine what this does.

I'm thinking of John, David, and Lucy, my children. If they were to find their grandparent dead, that's the kind of thing you never get over, Dr. Daniel Bober. Oh, it's beyond horrific, Nancy. I thought I was going to be your latest victim, but I'm glad you just asked me the question. So I feel better and I'm not shaking anymore. But yes, for sure, that would be a horribly traumatic event. And it's something that stays in a child's mind probably for the rest of their life and keeps, you know, rearing its ugly head.

You know, you think in your own home that you're safe, but not true. With me, Francie Hakes, Dr. Daniel Bober, Kenya Johnson, and John Lindley. Let's take a listen, Alan, to the 911 call and see what we can learn. I'm 911. What's the address of your emergency? 911 call and see what we can learn. Okay, and what's the telephone number you're calling from? My number is... Okay. What? What? Are you okay?

How long ago did you find her? Oh, she's dead. She's dead. We just found her. We just dead. We just found her. We just came. We just got in the door. I don't know how long she's been dead in the bathtub. Oh, my gosh.

Okay, are you with the patient now? Yes. Okay. I'm on the stairway. My friend, her daughter, has her. How old is the patient? How old is she, Katie? Katie, how old is she? 72. Okay. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Okay, hold on one second. We have them started. Is she awake?

No, she's not awake. She's dead. She's very dead. Okay. Do you believe she's beyond help? I don't know. Is she behind that? Is she dead?

Yes, she's very dead. Do you think someone murdered her? You know, to Kenya Johnson, veteran felony prosecutor, I always love playing a 911 call in front of a jury because it takes you back to that particular moment. There's no interpretation. You're hearing it raw as it happens, and you can learn a lot. There you hear the 911 call. But aside from learning about who found Kay Thompson dead and their reaction,

I did learn a lot about what happened to her. But it's still of value, Kenya. Absolutely. That is a devastating 911 call. You can feel the pain and the panic in the caller's voice. And I wanted to make a point about how reliable and how consistent the victim was in her life. That helps investigators be able to track back the events that occurred because they know where she should have been or where she was planning to go. And so that really assists with the timeline when you have a victim that is so reliable and consistent and so scheduled, it helps the investigation. And Nancy, I also want to

mention your arm robbery case. This is an Alram that is fodder for legend. And it's actually a big poster on the wall in the Fulton County District Attorney's Office. So that's just one of your claims to fame. Whoa, whoa. Are you serious? Yes, it sure is. Are you serious? That's still up in the DA's office? It sure is. You know, I have it framed in my office at Crime Online. That's hilarious. And there's so much more to the story, which, you know, when you have an hour and a cup of tea, Kenya, I'll be happy to tell you. You know, I mean, I just, anyway, off Al Ram and Roby and back to this one. Kenya, you're right. And I want to talk about, you know, back to you, Lindley.

You know, social butterfly. You would never have said that about a back to you, Lindley. You know, social butterfly. You would never have said that about a man. Oh, he's not much of a social butterfly. You know, I'm just sitting here stealing as I'm listening to that 9-1. No, you would not. I've never heard you say it before. And not only that, let me correct you. She worked charity at St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital,

the Ronald McDonald House charity, and many other charities. So I don't know what you want her to do, what gallivant around at night to hot spots and discos and bars. I don't even want to talk about it. I want to talk about what happened to this woman. What do we know about the injuries and what, if anything, does that tell us? First part, what are her injuries, John Limley? Her granddaughter and her two friends find Kay with a stab wound to the back of the neck. A stab wound to the back of the neck and not only that, she had blunt force trauma to the head. Francie Hakes, what does that tell you? Well, Nancy, what it tells me is that it's almost a personal crime.

It's certainly a very violent crime. It's also kind of unusual. I'm not sure I've ever seen a case where the cause of death is a stab wound to the back of the neck. It doesn't seem to me that she would have been all that hard to subdue. So I find it very violent sounding. You know, another thing, it makes me wonder, Francie, about where she was and what we know about the attack. For instance, was she in bed? If she was in bed, we don't have any evidence of a sex attack,

no evidence that anything stolen from the home, such as credit cards or ATMs, were ever used. So what's the point? Do we know, John Limley, whether there was damage in the home? Was it ransacked? What do we know? What we do know is that when Kay's granddaughter and her friends arrived at the home there on Woodbine Road, the first thing they noticed was that Kay's car, a black Kia Sorento, was not in the driveway. So they had no reason to believe when they entered the home that Kay was even there. That's when they began searching the home, and it was not long before they came upon that horrific scene. So what is that? That's an SUV, correct? Correct. We also know that that SUV was found almost immediately after.

So let's think this thing through. Dr. Daniel Bober, you're the forensic psychiatrist. Somebody breaks into this woman's home. There's no sex attack. There's no theft of any merit. The SUV was taken and then left immediately after. So what's the point, Dr. Daniel Bober? I actually agree with your previous guest, Nancy.

I mean, if you're a contract killer, you kill someone with a rifle 100 yards away. This is the kind of attack that's up close and personal. So it sounds like the attacker had a personal gripe with the victim. To me, it feels very personal. It feels very close. Take a listen to her daughter. We know that there's a community that takes care of their neighbors. We're asking you now to help take care of one that mattered greatly to us. Oh, God. She would have done anything for anybody. I'm so pleased if you know anything.

Come forward. Anything that you might know. You are hearing the daughter of Kay Thomason tearfully breaking down, begging for help to find the killer of her own mother. There is now a $100,000 reward. Repeat, $100,000 reward. Tip line 770-551-6937. This woman, a beautiful woman, a mother in her home minding her own business.

She lives alone. How many of us? i lived alone for years well ever since my fiance was murdered until really the time i i married had a couple of roommates but essentially lived alone this woman living alone she in a home. Her children live away from her in different cities. Divorced husband is a lawyer and a very well-known lawyer in another town. So how can you be, you're not safe in your own home, minding your own business. This is a very upscale area. Did she have a burglar alarm i can't believe that she would go to bed without locking the doors and turning on her alarm plus there's video of this guy take a listen to what cops say about the reward a hundred thousand dollars that's being put forth i think indicates

to the public how serious we are about solving this case. We hope that someone will look at the subject in that video, see how perhaps that person walks, see what that person was maybe wearing the night of the homicide. I am looking at the video right now. It's clearly her surveillance video in her home. I'm guaranteeing you she had a burglar alarm. She's got cameras. This guy comes out of nowhere. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, Alan Duke, have you viewed this video?

It's not like he's wandering down the street. Oh no. He comes out apparently right at her home where it looks like he's been hiding behind trees and undergrowth. He just comes out right at the entrance to her home, it looks like. Looks around. It's not like, wow, where am I going to go? What am I going to do? He turns and heads straight to her door I mean Alan this looks so planned to me well he could have been watching this house for a while he looks kind of like a vagrant to me the kind of person we have a lot of in

in Los Angeles but in the grainy photo at night you can't really tell he doesn't look like a vagrant to me I don't know how he can even possibly say he looks like a vagrant why does he vagrant are his pants torn i don't see his pants torn they look baggy okay well it's baggy all right a vagrant that knows how to beat an alarm system and get in murder this woman stabbing her bludgeoning her getting away in her suv stealing nothing else not leaving fingerprints or anything behind wow that's some vagrant it doesn't fit the profile of a vagrant as alan duke could have me believe francy hakes i agree with you nancy this seems very personal and very personable that That is personal to the victim. It looks like he was stalking her. It looked like when he got into her house,

he murdered her in a very personal, very violent way. Interesting. If this were a personal and violent attack, that there is no sex attack. What about it, Dr. Daniel Bober? How does that fit into this scenario? No credit cards have been used. No ATM has been used. It was almost as if the SUV theft was an afterthought. It was taken and dumped immediately. I agree with you, Nancy. Maybe the motive was revenge. It just seems like pure rage the way she was murdered. Just feels very cold, very personal, and very calculated. We know that the vehicle was discarded, was abandoned in an apartment complex in Chamblee. I would say that's about 10 miles from the murder scene.

Kenya Johnson, what can you glean from the fact it was abandoned in an apartment complex? Well, usually people dump items that they've stolen near their last location. So I would imagine that this is an area that the suspect frequented he was familiar with and not far away from where he ultimately ended up the night. And I agree that this crime doesn't seem like from a vagrant because those are more random crimes, crimes of opportunity. But this particular suspect knew that the victim would be alone, knew that the victim was of means. And this sort of seems like a very calculated type of crime, although vicious, but very calculated and not random at all. But I would say based on the location where the car was dropped, if you hang out in that area,

I think pretty soon he'll either show up again in that area or there's some connection to where he lives or Frecklin. Kenya Johnson, exactly. And I always use Scott Peterson as an example, but there's many, many, many examples. You know what? He's the big fisherman. What did he do? Kill Lacey and dump her body. Scott Peterson is an example, but there's many, many, many examples. You know what? He's the big fisherman. What did he do? Kill Lacey and dump her body where he went fishing.

That does not call for a brainiac, okay? People go where they're comfortable, all right, a place you've been before, your grandmother's property, where you grew up as a kid look at tot mom casey anthony dumping little kelly's body behind a school she used to attend to where she go out and sneak and smoke in the back of the school that area i mean it's a place that you're familiar with so that's where he goes to dump the suv k thomason's black SUV. Now, is there surveillance video there? That's my next question. If so, where is it? Why haven't I seen it?

If not, why haven't they gotten it? You know in an apartment complex there's going to be surveillance video. That's one thought. Next thought to Francie Hakes. If this woman has video cameras on her property, you know she had a burglar alarm. Second thought. Third thought, Francie. The vehicle was parked in the house.

A burglar? They're going to rob? No, they're not going to go in when you see the person parked in the driveway for Pete's sake. Not only that, it was the early, early morning hours. This means between midnight and 6 a.m. What does that mean? Why is he out and about at this time of night? Let's address those three things, Francie.

Well, first, the time frame, Nancy. You're so right. Only bad things happen between midnight and 6 a.m. Tell it. There's no doubt about it. Also, I don't think I've seen anywhere her surveillance video picking him up leaving the house. Is he sophisticated enough to have disabled the cameras? That's what I would like to know.

And you're right about the apartment complex and the area where he dumped her SUV. I doubt he lives there. He seems to me to be smarter than that. So did he do that in order to draw police's attention away from where he actually lives? That would be one of the questions I have. Well, and another thing, think about it. Think about it, John Limley.

The route, and Alan, you're familiar with the area that he would have likely taken to get from the home the murder scene to Shambly I mean if that uh SUV has any type of tracking navigational tracking in it you can determine which route he took and then you go along that route and you get surveillance video where's the surveillance video from the apartment? And then again, did this woman have a burglar alarm system? It seems fantastical to me that she would not if she has cameras. What about it, Alan? Well, there are several routes. You know, I used to be a traffic reporter in Atlanta many years ago, and I can tell you there are a lot of roads that he could have taken byways but if he had taken the free the

interstate ultimately there would be no cameras there but plenty of businesses have cameras around shamley gotta get to the interstate alan right but around shamley there are tons of security cameras because the there's a lot of stuff that goes on in shamley and you would think that they would see maybe even at the apartment complex so I would think he knows somebody there he used to live there he lives nearby or has worked there um have you ever heard Francie of people dumping cars say in a mall parking lot way out at the end of the airport parking lot or some vast parking lot, some area where they think it will get lost in the sauce and nobody will notice it like an apartment complex. Absolutely, Nancy. It's really, if you think about it, a forensic countermeasure. He's taken that

vehicle and dumped it somewhere, almost like to lead the police on a wild goose chase. This does not seem like a vagrant or a random crime at all to me another issue she's stabbed in the neck man that's cold stabbing somebody in the neck but what about the murder weapon did he leave it there are there prints was the murder weapon from the home or did he bring the murder weapon in also which would have shown some forethought also bludgeoned with what i mean i'm not i'm not getting enough facts john limley crimeonline.com investigative reporter what more do we know why are police planning it so close to the vest and why are they searching her phone records? Did the perp call her? If so,

how does he know her cell number? And why would he be calling her? That does make it personal. Let's start with the murder weapon, John and Emily. As with so many murder cases, police are sort of keeping a lot of these facts to themselves because as they interview They interview potential witnesses or suspects. They don't want to already have planted any information in these people's heads. So I want to analyze what we know, but let's listen right now to more of that 911 call. Do you think someone murdered her? What makes you think that? Okay, what makes you think that?

Because I don't think she's been murdered. Why do you think she's been murdered? Is there a gunshot wound or a stab wound? There is. There's blood all over the place. There's like sharp chains. There's a broken mirror, broken keys. Okay. Someone broke into this house. Okay. Hold on one second. Let me call the police. Oh my gosh. Her car is gone. Katie, her car is gone, right?

Someone stole her car. Oh my gosh. That is the 911 call in this case where the witness finds Kay Thomason's dead body stabbed and bludgeoned in her home. Another issue we touched on before to Dr. Daniel Bober, I mentioned that her three children lived in different cities, not near her. We also know that the husband, they've been divorced, and he is a lawyer in another city. She ran rental properties throughout the city of Atlanta, some in fancy areas, some in high-crime areas. Dr. Daniel Bober, what does that mean to you, if anything?

It means that your suspect list is increased significantly because you have to think about any of these people that she may have come into contact with and may have had some gripe or some issue with her, and they are all potential suspects. As of this hour, a $100,000 reward, the highest reward ever in Sandy Springs history. Tip line 770-551-6937. Listen to her children as they beg for your help. She would have done anything for anybody. I'm so pleased if you know anything. Come forward. Anything that you might know.

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It's never been so easy to find the truth. Go to truthfinder.com slash Nancy and enter any name to get started. A gorgeous young woman goes missing. A landfill searched connected to the disappearance of Jolene Cummins, a gorgeous young mom who worked as a salon stylist. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

What do we know? Joining me right now, Ashley Wilcott, judge, lawyer, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com, New York psychologist Karen Stark, forensics expert, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet, Joseph Scott Morgan. But right now to CrimeOnline.com, investigative reporter Lee Egan. Before I go into how Jolene goes missing, to start with, what can you tell me about the search of a landfill? Well, they're searching the Cheshire Island landfill. That's in Folkston, Georgia. And right now they're saying they have several pieces of items of interest. They're not telling what it is, but they're saying it could possibly lead to more information that will lead to finding Jolene. Let's talk about how she goes missing. Start at the beginning, Lee Egan. She was working at a Tangles Hair Salon, San Bernardino, Beach, Florida. They leave for the night and nobody hears from her since. Police searching the salon where the mother of three, just 34 years old, was last seen before she goes missing.

Her family posting desperate and emotional messages on Facebook, begging for her return. Well, we hear her family and we are trying our best to help solve the mystery of the disappearance of Jolene Cummings, a mother of three. As a matter of fact, take a listen to Jolene's mother. It motivates me that the community just loves my daughter and that they care about each other. We're a small-knit community, but it's impacted by everybody. I mean, from one parent to another, can you imagine the imaginable? You know, just the smallest closure would be having a home. And that's the hardest part.

Just not having her home. To Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, professor of forensics and author, they turned the salon upside down. I'm looking at a picture of her right now. She looks kind of like a cross of Carrie Underwood and Ariana Grande. That's what she looks like to me. This beautiful young woman, Jolene Cummings, working at a Tangles Hair Salon to support her three children, works that evening. It's a small area, Fernandina Beach near Jacksonville. Joe Scott, what can you tell me?

Like she said, it's a close-knit community. And I'm curious to know how many eyes were on this area. How many eyes were on this area watching what was going on in this particular area? And I'm not just talking about people, but I'm talking about things like CCTV footage here. And who would be motivated to just kind of extricate this woman from this environment in which you stated she's trying to take care of her family working in the salon. Her family desperately asking for help. And we know in the last hours a search of a landfill has been going on to Lee Egan, investigative reporter with CrimeOnline.com, about how far away is this landfill from where she went missing? It's not that far away, Nancy. It's close to the Georgia-Florida line.

This is just to the west of Brunswick, Nancy, Charton County. It's about an hour away from the last place she was seen. An hour away across the state line. Now, I understand from what you're saying, Lee Egan, that items of interest have been found in the Jolene Cummings disappearance. Do we have any idea what the items might be? The sheriff did say that they had found items such as envelopes, mail, and different things that put them into an area because it's a huge landfill. So they had to kind of go piece by piece until they got to the area they needed to be in.

And they did say they found some mail and envelopes around that area, but he wouldn't specify if that was what they were looking for in regards to this case. Something led them there, and the search of a landfill is a very, very difficult thing to do. You have to grid the landfill off. I wonder what led them an hour away to this remote landfill. To Joseph Scott Morgan, I'm going to get back to the grid search, but I want you to take a listen to what the sheriff had to say. Can you say if they're more consistent with maybe a murder weapon or something that would be Kessler's prints or any suspect's prints, or are they more consistent with remains? I'm not going to get into what we found. They have to be tested at the lab first. We'll continue to follow any leads,

credible leads that we receive. We have not received any credible in a while. So we'll continue with our criminal case, criminal investigation there to put a rock solid case together to make sure that this will never happen again. After battling horrific temperatures a solid week in search for evidence in the disappearance of Jolene Cummins, investigators announced at this landfill they have found evidence of interest. They sifted through 3,300 tons of trash. And we hear this from Nassau County Sheriff Bill Leaper. Now, what does that mean? Joe Scott Morgan, how did they come out of over 3,000 tons of trash. How do you come up with envelopes connected to Jolene? It is a tedious process, Nancy. I've been involved in several of these landfill searches, you know, over the course of my career.

And just let me set the scene for you very carefully, let you know what these guys are going through and gals are going through out there. They're wearing Tyvek suits, which are those white crime scene suits you see us wearing with the hoods on and all that sort of thing. We're talking about South Georgia, immediately adjacent to Northern Florida. It is blistering hot. Your face is covered. You've got gloves on your hands. It's easy to be distracted. And if you can imagine the world's largest jigsaw puzzle that is the most foulest environment that you can be in, it's just randomly thrown on the ground. You're having to look for just clues in this environment. That's what these people are

having to contend with. The fact that they were able to find anything. I am absolutely amazed. You've got this big equipment that's rolling over everything, that's pressing this stuff down. It's a horrible, horrible environment to have to deal with. Oh, and did I mention the rats? They're everywhere. Now, 200 members of the FBI and the sheriff's office rotated through this massive dump, a landfill. And that's from Jacksonville FBI Special Agent in Charge Charles Spencer. They're wearing those protective suits that Joe Scott Morgan's telling you about,

temperatures that reached up to a heat index of 116 degrees that's 6.5 million pounds on my math whiz here jackie howard figured that out 3 300 tons 6.5 million pounds of trash to find evidence connecting back to the missing hair salon artist, Jolene Cummins, the mother of three. Now we have the issue of surveillance video. To Ashley Wilcott, lawyer, judge, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com. Wait in, Ashley. Well, let me just tell you, I'm so wicked impressed by law enforcement, FBI, because of the search of the dump, because that is such a monumental effort. Here's what they're doing.

They are trying to find anything that might relate to the victim and figure or the victim herself, but also to figure out who was involved or might have been involved in this killing, this murder. And one of the things I want to point out that I really love is the items of interest that they found. They made a statement to say, listen, they may not be significant. They may be significant. But we are going to take those and we are going to have the lab analysis done and we are going to determine how helpful or not it is. So it's a really a monumental effort. And someone knows what happened.

Well, think about it, Ashley Wilcott. Think about it. Trash from Florida sent to a Georgia landfill. OK, now think about what someone even if it's just a bill from the victim's pocketbook that was in her car okay because her car was found had been moved think about someone even if the bill is of no importance maybe it's cable bill i don't know but what i'm saying is the significance to me of that bill may be that whoever did away with Jolene went to that effort to hide it. Then you can find out what else was there, who else had been in that area, who was familiar with that

area. Why would, you know, because criminals always go back to something familiar, like Scott Peterson was a fisherman. So he dumps Lacey and Connor in the San Francisco Bay. Get it, Ashley? I mean, it could reveal a lot, even if the bill means nothing. And there could be DNA on it. Who handled it? So they've sent it to the lab for all that analysis. And I'm going to say what I say in every single case. Somebody knows what happened.

Maybe more than one person knows what happened. And so I believe that they're going to get to the bottom of it. Jolene Cummins reported missing two days after she was last seen leaving her job at a Tangles hair salon, Fernandina Beach. What do we know about the last person to see her alive? Kimberly Kessler, aka Jennifer Seibert, that's what the people at Tangles knew her as because she was using an alias she's had 18 different identities over the past since 1994 now wait a minute clear something up for me lee when you say kimberly kessler has had all these various identities you're kimberly kessler now that's

her co-worker who also works in the salon right right? That's correct. And police say that Kessler has also had numerous different job titles over the years. She was a truck driver at one time, worked in restaurants, different hairstylists at different salons. The thing is, when she had these different jobs, she would change her name each and every time. She never kept the same name. And that's the red flag that the police picked up on she is said to be the last person to see jolene alive the last person in her car well how do you know that lee that that the co-worker kimberly lee kessler was the last person in her car in the victim's car okay the last time they saw jolene's car it it was parked in a parking, a Home Depot parking lot.

Police pulled their surveillance camera. They see Kimberly, Kimberly Kessler getting out of the driver's seat of the car. No one else was in the car with her. She parks the car, gets out, shuts the door, walks to a nearby gas station and takes a taxi cab away. OK, Karen Stark, that doesn't look good. It doesn't look good and it's clear sign that it's intentional, that she understands what she's doing and that something is amiss in this situation, Nancy. What is she doing there? What is she doing with her car? When was the last time she was seen? She was last seen on May 13th.

She was supposed to pick up her children, and she did not show up. Obviously raised a red flag with all of her family, because she is very much a hands-on mother, and she spends a lot of time with them. She separated from the children's father, and she was supposed to meet him at a parking lot to pick them up and she did not show up. These two women, were they on a friendly basis? What do we know about them? Were they working the same shift when she goes missing? Was there

animosity? Did they have an argument that day? And so over what what do we know lee they were not on a friendly basis they were very a lot of animosity between them for some reason from what her co-worker said is kessler had a problem with jolene but they did not know why she just refused to help her she just snubbed her at every chance she got. And it was to the point where it was uncomfortable inside the salon. It made things very tense. But, I mean, tense enough to commit a murder? Karen Stark, when you work with somebody day in and day out, what type of animosities can grow, can build? Well, it's one of those things where you can build up a resentment against the person and they might never know it. But there's a lot of tension that can happen in a situation like that because you become so intimate.

You know each other backwards and forwards. There's a constant getting together. So the more that you dislike that person, you're still forced to continue to interact with them. Well, Lee Egan, CrimeOnline.com, the surveillance video of the co-worker getting out of the victim's car is not the only video, is it? It is not. They also have a video of her dumping trash into a dumpster, which is what led the police to the Georgia landfill to begin with. Because the dumpster that she used, they take that trash to that landfill in Georgia. Aha.

So there's the answer to my mystery. My mystery was, did someone drive all the way to this landfill, but you just answered it for me. That took some good detective work from police, Lee Egan, to know to go to that dumpster. Do we know where the dumpster was located? It was in a commercial area in Jacksonville. Aha, so that clears up a lot. They had to use a lot of powers of deduction and use their gray cells to figure this one out by combing surveillance video at dumpsters throughout the area to catch the co-worker

throwing away trash. They didn't know what was in that trash, but maybe it was an odd time of day or night, like 1 a.m. or 2 a.m. She's throwing out the trash at a dumpster. Why not just put it in your kitchen trash and put it out by the street? But still, we don't know where is Jolene. But we fear the worst. Listen.

I want answers more than anybody else wants answers. And I feel confident that we'll have those answers soon enough. We will continue. We will not cease praying. My daughter will be found. And there will be more evidence. I want justice. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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