Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mom Lindsay Clancy 3 Tots Dead, Jury Shock @ Grim Crime Scene

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

When Lindsay Clancy’s third child is born, her recovery seems to be different.   The 32-year-old reaches out to her parents and her in-laws to help her manage the children and things around the home. Her husband, Patrick Clancy sets up a home office in the basement to work remotely, so he can be on hand to help. When Lindsay starts to have thoughts of suicide, and worse, hurting the children, she checks herself into the McLean Psychiatric Hospital,  Five days after checking into a psychiatric hospital Lindsay Clancy is reportedly told she doesn't have postpartum depression. Husband Patrick Clancy tells friends that after her hospital stay, Lindsay seems to be getting better. She is sleeping better, interacting with friends and family, and going out in public without any difficulty. When Patrick Clancy asks his wife if she is having any suicidal thoughts, Lindsay Clancy says "No."    Later on in the year, with his wife having been prescribed at least 13 different medications, Patrick Clancy texts a friend saying he’s concerned that Lindsey has been prescribed too many medications. Patrick allegedly told friends that he worried she was suffering “the worst side effects possible” from one of her prescriptions. He says he thinks she is going through benzodiazepine withdrawal.    On a Tuesday afternoon Lindsay Clancy sends a text to her husband to pick up takeout.  As Patrick Clancy leaves to pick up dinner, Lindsay sends him a text to stop off by the drugstore and pick up some medicine for the children.   Patrick Clancy stops by the drug store to pick up the medication but gets confused as to exactly which medicine to buy. He calls Lindsay Clancy on the phone, but she doesn't answer. She calls back a minute later. Patrick says she sounded like she was in the middle of something. Lindsay answers his question about the medication and Patrick picks it up and heads to  3V to get their dinner.  When Patrick Clancy comes home, he’s met with silence. He finds his wife in the backyard. She had jumped out of a second-floor window after slitting her wrists. The children are in the basement,  strangled, an exercise band still wound around their necks.   Investigators revealed in court papers that Lindsay Clancy allegedly researched "ways to kill" before the deaths of her three children.    Now Lindsay Clancy,  paralyzed after her second-floor fall, is on trial for three counts each of murder and strangulation.  The trial has been emotional so far. Ex-husband, Patrick Clancy, served as the state's first witness. He details her deteriorating mental health leading up to the tragedy but noted that she appeared to be having "one of her best days" just hours before the event.   The court played the emotional, impounded 911 audio recorded when Patrick returned home to discover his wife on the ground outside and his children strangled in the basement.  Police officers, firefighters, and emergency room doctors gave gut-wrenching testimony.  The jurors then completed a rare site visit to the former family home in Duxbury, as well as the local CVS and restaurant Patrick visited on the evening of the killings. The trial continues this week. Joining Nancy Grace today: Josh Kolsrud - Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Assistant U.S. Attorney, Founder of Kolsrud Law Offices, Co-Host of the Podcast: "No Contest", website: kolsrudlawoffices.com, Facebook and YouTube @KolsrudLawOffices  Dr. Catherine Birndorf, MD - Reproductive Psychiatrist and Postpartum Expert.  Co-Founder, CEO, Medical Director at The Motherhood Center of New York.  Former board member at Postpartum Support International, Founding Director of the Payne Whitney Women’s Program at Weill Cornell Medicine – New York-Presbyterian Hospital. Author: "What No One Tells You: A Guide to Your Emotions from Pregnancy to Motherhood"  and "The Nine Rooms of Happiness: Loving Your Life, Finding Your Purpose, and Getting Over Life’s Little Imperfections  Claudia King  - Former Law Enforcement Officer, Domestic Violence Expert; Host  "No Contest" and "Strong Enough," www.claudiamking.com, @realclaudiaking  Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Host of the Podcast "Mayhem in the Morgue", Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University) Shannon Hill (NYC) Host, Shannon Hill News on Instagram, Tiktok and YouTube  Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories' See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pastos survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto-pay. credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell. Connection is everything. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Mom, Lindsay Clancy's three taught children are dead. The jury shot when they visit the grim crime scene. Remember, all three children were hurted into the basement and murdered with exercise bans? Good evening.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Lindsay Clancy Googles Ways to Kill. So this is top three worst crime scenes I've ever been to, but I've never seen police officers weeping at a crime scene the way I did that night. I hear the defense lawyer saying she's been crying. She should be crying. They're dead. What did you do once you got inside the home? I started taking my boots off. Was there anything you noticed? Yeah, the house is really quiet.

Is that unusual? Yeah. And when you realized it was really quiet, what did you do? I called out. And who did you call out to? Everyone. Did anyone answer? No.

After you called out and no one answered, what did you do next? I think I don't know the order. But I called down in the basement and no one answered. And then I called Lindsay to see if she was home. Because I looked out and I couldn't see her car, but it's because it was dark and her car's black. Okay, so when you say you called down to the basement, when you approached the basement door, do you remember if it was open or shut? It was shut.

So did you open it and yell down? Yeah. And there was no response? Correct. That's from our friends at East Idaho News. In the courtroom, court went down all day to day, and we are bringing you the latest from the courthouse. That is Lindsay Clancy's husband on the stand. When she heard the 911 call, which we are not playing tonight with the dad, he asked the court not to release it publicly.

We have it. We're not playing it. It is just too upsetting. When she heard it, she breaks down in tears. But tears aside, the prosecution said she knew very well what she was doing, waiting, in fact, engineering her husband to leave the home to go get takeout food, then telling him to go to CVS pharmacy. He called her in the middle of the murders, according to the prosecution, and she acted normal on the phone. He is on the stand.

Listen. After you called Lindsay and didn't get a response, what did you do next? I started checking upstairs. And where did you check upstairs? First, the bathroom. I thought maybe they were taking baths, but there's no one there. And then where did you go? The kids' bedrooms.

Was there anyone in the kids' bedrooms? No. And then did you go to your bedroom? Yeah. And were you able to get into your bedroom right away? No, the door was locked. when I knew something was wrong. When you unlocked the door to your bedroom, did you go in? Yeah. And what did you see when you opened the door and went in? I just saw blood everywhere,

and the window was open. It was everywhere. It was, it looked like it was sprayed almost with like a hose, and there was a huge puddle in the middle of the room, and it was sprayed all over the, pretty much every surface. I remember it was on the doorknob. Dear Lord in heaven, can you imagine coming home? You call out for your children. Nobody answers. Everything's dark. You start looking for them.

And in the words of Patrick Clancy, you see blood as if it was sprayed with a hose on the wall. Blood as if it's sprayed with a hose, a garden hose. that courtroom was dead silent. You could have heard a pin drop as he goes on in his testimony describing the discovery of his children's, his three children's bodies

with cords, exercise bands still wrapped around their necks. I saw Cora. And how did she look? She had a band around her neck. And was that an exercise band? Yeah. And do you recall whether she was, what position she was in, whether face up or face down?

She's face down. And when you saw her in that condition, what did you do? I immediately ran over and tried to take the band off. Were you able to get the band off? Yeah. Was she responsive? No. I saw Callen.

And where was he? He was next to her. And how did he appear? He had a band around his neck. Sorry? He had a band around his neck. And did you remove that as well? Yeah.

And do you recall what position he was in? Same as Cora. After you removed the band from Callan's neck, what did you do next? I tried to find Dawson. And where did you go? I looked in the bathroom and on the other side of the couch. and then I went to the other side of the basement and he was in my office. And when you saw Dawson, what condition was he in?

I knew who's gone. And did he also have a band around his neck? Yeah. And did you remove that band? Yeah. From our friends at East Idaho News joining us an all-star panel, including Shannon Hill on the case from the very beginning at Shannon Hill News, Dave Mack and Dr. Catherine Berndorf.

But to Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us tonight, Chief Medical Examiner in Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, never a lack of business in the morgue in Fort Worth. He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, and he is the star of a hit new podcast, Mayhem in the morgue. Dr. Kendall Crows, thank you for being with us tonight. Explain to me how the exercise bands, mommy's exercise bands, were used to strangle the three children,

and the pressure necessary, the force of exertion to use them as opposed to some other ligature, such as a rope. Certainly. So to start with an exercise band is kind of this stretchy latex rubber. So they aren't stiff like a rope. You have to put pressure on it to hold that pressure on the neck. Now I have a CPR dummy of a baby here with me. And what it is is the ligature is placed around the neck and then pulled tightly, but then mom's got to maintain that pressure to get the knot put into place,

which is actually somewhat difficult to do. So once that's done, all you need is 4.4.4. pounds of pressure around the neck to cause enough pressure to blood not be getting to the brain. And as long as that's maintained for three to four minutes, you've killed the child. So it's a lot more difficult to use exercise bands when compared to a rope because of the stretchiness. So you have to really pull it tot and keep it taught, keep that pressure on the neck to kill the child or to kill whoever you're strangling with them. The significance of that, Josh Colesru, joining us, veteran trial lawyer, criminal defense attorney, former U.S. attorney, star of podcast, no contest.

The significance of what Dr. Kimmel Crowns has just said goes to intent. As you and I know, as veteran trial lawyers, intent does not require a long, drawn-out plan. The example I would give a jury is such as poisoning someone over a period of weeks and months until they finally. kill over dead. It can be formed intent in the blink of an eye, the twinkling of a moment, the time it takes to pull a trigger. Much less, the amount of time is described by Dr. Kimmel Crowns, it would require to exert force necessary to strangle, asphyxiate all three children. That was time to form intent. Is it not? Well, that's certainly what the prosecution is going to argue Nancy now you know what we can't deny is that there was a killing of three

innocent children Cora Dawson and Callan and there's nothing that the defense can do to try to brighten that picture and when their father walked into that basement and discovered a horror that no parent should ever want to see nothing I can say can soften that but killing and murder aren't automatically the same thing under the law you know murder requires a criminally responsible mind. That isn't a technicality. It's one of the oldest and most humane principles in American justice. So the question isn't simply whether Lindsay's hands committed these acts. We know they did. The question is whether her mind ravaged by severe mental disease could appreciate the wrongfulness

of these acts and control her conduct when they occurred. Now, this woman didn't wake up one morning after a normal life and calmly decide she no longer wanted her children. She saw doctors, 19 times prior to this happening. And they prescribed her a whole litany of drugs. And I think you have them in alphabetical order or phonetical order. And you look at this. It is a whole pharmacy full of drugs that, how could you not imagine that this could affect anybody taking these in a very negative way?

Let me remind you that the voluntary use of drugs, drugs or alcohol is not a defense under the law. Now hold on. We are not bloodthirsty monsters that want a sick woman to be put in GP general population. I don't want that. What I want is a true verdict. And under the law, under the law, I'm not the law. The law is enacted by the population. The law states that if you knew the difference between right and wrong at the time of the incident, you're not insane. Period. Now, she's claiming not guilty by reason of insanity. Straight out to Shannon Hill joining us, star of Shannon Hill News on Insta. Shannon, thank you for being with us. I understand that in addition to what we're learning right now, Clancy

breaks down as a doctor describes efforts to revive the children. What happened? And I haven't even gotten to the jury going to the murder scene, but one thing at a time, what happened when a doctor described trying to revive the three children? As he was trying to revive the middle child Dawson and Callum, both children were not showing any sort of brain function. And at one point, they did get a pulse from Callum the youngest. And that was when they also realized his heart was no longer repeating and they could not survive. And yes, Lindsay Clancy was crying in the courtroom when this was being talked about. I'm very curious. It's hard to watch the jury like Hawk when you're watching everything else in the courtroom. I remember feeling like I was watching

a tennis match when I had time to reflect upon it in court because I'd be watching the witness and looking at the jury and watching the witness and looking at the jury like that the whole time. It's very difficult to also look over at the defendant. I tried not to do that when I was trying a case, but I wonder how the jury reacted to Lindsay Clancy sobbing in court. Do we know, Shannon? They continue to ask the jury to not get emotionally attached to any of the evidence being shown, such as the pajamas, children's pajamas that were being shown, to remain emotionally detached from any and all of the testimony and evidence shown. One thing that I think is really compelling is when Patrick Fancy testifies on this stand and he says that he sees his wife on the ground, he goes to her. And he asks her what happened. She says, I tried to kill myself. And then he asks her, where are the children?

She says in the basement, but then doesn't proceed to tell him to go help them or go check on his children or run to them. You know, they're in dire need. Shannon Hill, I find that very disturbing. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pastos survive the first off? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Straight out to Dr. Catherine Berndorf. productive psychiatrist. She is a postpartum expert joining us. She is

CEO and medical director at the Motherhood Center of New York. Former board member Postpartum Support International. She's the founding director of the Payne Whitney Women's Program at the Will Cornell Medical Center and author of what no one tells you a guide to your emotions

from pregnancy to motherhood. And more. Dr. Berndorf, thank you for being with us. You have worked extensively with postpartum depression. Here, we're not talking about postpartum depression, which I believe is very common amongst new moms. We are talking about postpartum psychosis, as you know well. You know all about that.

The law is very clear, though, that if she knew right from wrong at the time, No defense is going to be able to save her. So I've been studying this list of drugs. Sleep, anxiety, sleep and anxiety, antidepressant, mood stabilizer, anxiety and sleep, sleep, antipsychotic, sleep. It just, that's a lot. But she did take them voluntarily.

She may have, but typically, as a psychopharmacologist, I'll tell you, you don't use all those. drugs at the same time. One who's being treated for presumed illness is being treated with the best medications for that illness. So you go one at a time, you add more when needed, and sometimes you're cross-tapering them if something doesn't work. So while I can't speak to this list or what she took, I can say that these meds don't cause psychosis. They treat it and they treat postpartum depression. They treat many things, as you pointed out. So it's hard to believe that anyone would be taking them all at the same time.

I agree. I agree. And I don't have evidence that she was taking them all at the same time. I'd also like to point out it had been 19 days since she had been released from psychiatric treatment at the time of the killings. Dr. Catherine Berndorf, I find it disturbing that when, When her husband finds her outside having jumped from a two-story window, let's show the home. When she jumped from that window, the husband approached her. I'd like to see the back of the home because that shows me the window from which she jumped.

There it is. If you can show me at a distance. There it goes the top right window, I believe. She didn't even mention the children. She says, I, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. I tried to kill myself. He had to ask, well, what about the children? And then she told him they're in the basement.

She didn't mention that they had exercise band trapped around their necks. Yes, if it's determined that she is psychotic at the time of what happened, this is entirely consistent with this medical disease, also known as a mental illness called postpartum psychosis. It is entirely consistent where at some point you can be behaving absolutely normally or seemingly so, but have this. belief in the back of your head that is intractable, that is absolutely believed by you as if you are doing the right thing for your children. Again, I can't speak to this, but we look at previous cases and we know that that is the belief of someone in the mind who's having a postpartum psychosis. They believe they are doing the right thing, potentially saving their children from some horrible fate. So this is consistent based on what I know as an expert and what I've seen.

What is postpartum psychosis as opposed to postpartum depression? Depression is when one is struggling with low mood, disinterest in things, not sleeping, eating well, a bunch of somatic different kinds of symptoms. Psychosis is a break with reality. It is a complete. completely different thing, different realm. And I think that it's not always easy to see. People aren't running around, you know, sort of stark raving mad. That's not what you see.

You can see perfectly behaved people who have this kind of circumscribed in the back of the head belief that can be shared, may not be shared, they may be behaving normally one minute and hours later, not because they are acting on potentially, delusions, hallucinations, command hallucinations to say potentially, you need to kill these kids to save them. That is possible. We know it to be true. We've heard it before. These are distinctly different illnesses. Postpartum depression, one in five. Postpartum psychosis, one to two per thousand.

It is uncommon, but it is there, and it is deadly when not treated. So, very different. to Claudia King joining us, former law enforcement officer domestic violence expert, host of No Contest Podcasts, and Star of Strong Enough podcast. Claudia, thank you for being with us. You can find her at Claudia M as in Mother King.com. Claudia, I'm going to speak what no one else has said yet, because I've heard a lot about the mother's alleged psychosis. and what she went through.

Can we talk about the dead victims, the three children, what they went through? Nobody is talking about three lives gone. Three children brutally murdered. Do I need to replay for you, Claudia King, where the dad said, when he went, and it looked like someone had sprayed the wall with a garden hose, sprayed the wall with blood. Why is nobody talking about the terror the children went through as they were herded into the basement and one by one murdered by mommy

who had to exert intense control, an intense weight to use these elastic bands, which are, as I said, elastic, which are pliant. It's like strangling somebody with a rubber band, as opposed to a ligature. It takes a lot of effort and force. The last thing they saw was their mother strangling them. Her face, was it contorted? Was she? Was she? having to exert herself to murder them? Why is nobody talking about them, Claudia? Because that's really hard, Nancy. Nobody wants to talk about what those children suffered through.

So we're going to talk about it right now. I think the fact that Dawson was found in a different room is because he ran away. He saw what was happening and he tried to get away from what his mother was doing to his siblings. And Nancy, the other thing I find very interesting is we know at least two of the children were found face down. She did not want to look at their faces when she did this to them. She didn't want them to see her face when she did this to them. And I think that is very telling. And when you put that band around the neck, they're still struggling for seconds to up to a minute. before they become unconscious.

So she's having to deal with that as well. What these children went through is absolutely horrible. And for their father to have to find them that way and take those bands from off their necks is absolutely horrendous. Shannon, I wonder how the jury reacted when the evidence came out that she didn't mention or direct her husband to the children, that she, only talked about herself and that the children, as Claudia King just rightly pointed out, were face down. They couldn't see their mother's face. Well, we don't know what the jury

did and said, but what I do know is that the public reaction to that is very upsetting. They are very, they are very concerned that there was no emotion there with Lindsay Cancy, that she was just so detached from her children that she just let her, she allowed her husband, to wait with her while the paramedic came, that she never gave him a heads up, that the children are in the basement and they need your help. And that is where the public is the most shocked. I ran downstairs and went outside. I just looked around in the backyard below that window and I saw Lindsay. And where did you see her? She was face up in the backyard. And where in the backyard was she? At the bottom of the window. Where was she in relation to that window? Directly below it.

down here by the window well? Yeah. She had deep cuts on her wrists, and she had a red line across her neck. I wasn't sure what it was at first, but she cut her neck. From our friends at East Idaho News, straight to Dr. Kendall Crowns,

Chief Medical Examiner, Terrant County. How many cases have I seen? I'm trying to figure out how many I can't count them all, where someone commits homicide and then claim they were going to kill themselves, but they didn't. Over and over and over. You can wipe out the whole family, and I've seen this in men and women, but when it comes to killing themselves somehow, that doesn't work.

Yes, it does happen occasionally, especially when parents kill their children. They attempt suicide. Often you see it when boyfriends murder their wives or something like that. like that situation, murder girlfriends, I mean. They attempt to cover up the fact that they did it by attempting suicide. Often their suicide attempts are superficial, so they don't cut deep into a vessel

or they don't cut deep enough to kill themselves and you get this injuries, but you don't see them dying. So you gotta wonder where they really meaning to kill themselves. Now jumping out of a second story window, if she had gone head first, she might have achieved what she was going for. But my assumption is she went feet first, and that's why she's a paraplegic at this time.

So again, another unsuccessful suicide attempt, and you have to wonder, did she really mean to die? Shannon Hill, what is her vocation? What does Lindsay Clancy do for a living when she worked? So she was a labor and delivery nurse. So she was and is very familiar with women who are going through pregnancy, delivery and part of.

So let me understand this. To Dr. Catherine and Berndorf, Dr. Berndorf, this is a woman that was in and out of the pediatric unit every day in labor and delivery. And she murders her three children. I am tempted to point out

the irony of that, but I'm more interested in it in a probative sense, what, if anything, does it prove regarding her knowledge? of how to kill someone and how not to kill herself. I would reframe it and say what you're seeing is the idea that someone who has knowledge of labor and delivery or someone in the field, the profession, didn't know what was happening, that there's not enough education.

I can't tell you the number of people we treat at the Motherhood Center, professionals in the field and other, you know, very respectable fields who don't know what's happening. happening to them. Their stigma, there's shame, there's lack of education, lack of access to treatment. We see this all the time. And when they get to us at the Motherhood Center, they've tried to get help many, many times. They've been turned away. Their insurances haven't paid, and they are frankly just burned out of trying and still ill. But they're defeated. And it's very hard to access this. So there's nothing, you know, it is ironic, as you put it, but understandable from where I sit that this can happen to anyone in the field or anywhere else.

Dave Mack joining me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter, detail for Dr. Catherine at Berndorf, how Clancy had sought treatment. Nancy, let's see. Nancy Clancy sought treatment many times for how she felt, psychologically speaking, depression and things like that. In particular, Nancy, beyond the 13 prescriptions that doctors were describing, she checked herself in to McLean Hospital for inpatient psychiatric treatment. We're talking days before this event happened. January 1st to January 5th of 2020. She was in the hospital. Her medications were being adjusted. She requested discharge before the end of treatment. So she wanted help and she sought out help. But then before clinicians cleared her to go, she checked herself out. And she was discharged and went home and we know what happened after that. Previous to that, Nancy, she had constantly been seeking some type of treatment for the way she felt. And, ended where we ended. More of what dad says he observes when he found his wife outside that night.

What did the defendant say at that time about what had happened with the children? She didn't talk about our kids. She talked about what she went through. And what did she say about what she went through? She said she heard a man's voice telling her that if she didn't do it now, she would lose her chance. or something like that. And did she also tell you that she had had a moment of psychosis?

I don't recall. From reference at East Idaho News. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pastos survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumber? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month.

Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Straight out to Shannon Hill, joining us from Shannon Hill News. The jury shocked when they visit the crime scene, the scene that was once a happy home. Explain what happened.

That's a very unusual move. I saw it in the Murdoch case, State v. Alex Murdoch. I saw it in the O.J. Simpson case, the Karen Reed case. It is fraught, fraught with potential danger. What happened, Shannon? That's right, Anzi. They do this in very few cases, but with this particular case, They wanted the jury to take a ride from the CVS that Patrick Clancy had gone to that day,

and then to the 3B restaurant where Patrick Clancy also picked up that Lindsay had requested him to pick up, and then back to the house. And that would give them an idea of how long a trip like that would take and how long Patrick Clancy would be out of the house that they were living in in Duxbury. So, you know, I think being that close to the scene and that close to the home, I wish to the end. the inside and outside of what to place gives the jury a really strong picture of exactly what happened to those children that day. Shannon, I'm showing you state's exhibit number 41. It is a view of apparently carpeted steps leading down from the main dwelling area to the basement. I think the significance of this, much to Josh Colrooge's chagrin, will be that with every step,

another second passes for her to rethink her murderous plan. What is the claim of the state? How did she get the children hurted into the basement? And one child was hiding in daddy's office, which was also in the basement. What is significant about these steps, Shannon? Yes, Zanzi. Now, keep in mind, this was a finished basement. So this was like the family's second family room.

They would go downstairs. There was a gym down there. There were children's toys down there. The husband Patrick Clancy had an office down there. So it was very common for these kids to go to the basement to see their parents or play. And so another trip down to the basement didn't seem out of the ordinary to these children. And you're correct in saying that there was time for Lindsay Clancy to change her mind, going down the stairs, bringing all three kids, making sure to have those exercise bands.

This was all the process, a process that she had to. think through or conducting. In States Exhibit 100, which gives you an idea of how many exhibits there are. We're already on 100, and the case isn't done yet. Court went all day long. You see clutter in the basement. It doesn't look to me like a play area. It looks like leftover furniture and other artifacts are down there, but I do see on the floor,

the baby's PJs and exercise courts. were the PJs cut off the children in an effort to save their lives or why are they separate from the child Shannon that was that is a possibility that the PJs were taken off before the strangulation happened I know that with the youngest Callan he was in a diaper when the paramedics found him so when the paramedics got to the house and went downstairs they said that Callan was in a diaper and not in any clothing. So the pajamas were taken off and that, again, is a process that took Lindsay and Nancy time to do for strangling the church.

I also noticed in Exhibit 107 is the bedroom window from which Clancy jumped. Girard's at the scene were able to view the height of the window for themselves as the top right window. And when you look carefully at Exhibit 107, You see blood at the lower left side of the window. Did that mean she was holding on? Because it was her wrists that were bleeding. Was she holding on by, with both hands, to lessen the fall?

Has anybody thought about that, Josh Coles Rude? Well, you know, it certainly is evidence. that she wasn't in her right mind. And it also shows that maybe this wasn't part of some plan. Now, I know that the prosecution is making it seem like planning is synonymous with sanity. But psychosis doesn't always erase a person's ability to perform steps and sequence, right? I mean, sometimes a person does something and they imagine a building is on fire. when there is no fire.

And, you know, she does things in sequence, right? But that doesn't mean that she's in her right mind. Now, every movement may appear organized. It may appear like she has a plan. But it doesn't mean that she isn't suffering from psychosis. Okay. I hear your argument. That's what the defense is going to argue.

The jury also rode by, I believe, not only the restaurant, they didn't go in the restaurant, where he got takeout and the CVS, where Clancy sent him to pick up prescriptions. Listen. Is that you entering the store? Yeah. And that section you head to on the right is that the pediatric medication section? Yeah.

Okay. And while you're in that section, looking for the medication, do you do something? I called Lindsay. And why did you call Lindsay? Because what we were looking for wasn't there. What was her demeanor during the call? She was pretty quiet. It sounded like she was busy.

I remember hanging up thinking she's probably in the middle of giving baths or something like that. At 5.54.15 p.m. is that you coming in behind that other couple there? Yeah. And what are you doing at that point when you're looking at the bags? I think I was looking for the bag with my name on it. And the order that was listed under your name and phone number, correct? I think Lindsay ordered it. Right, but do you recall whose name it was under when you picked it up?

I don't recall specifically, but it could have been mine. The jury could determine for themselves how far it was between the restaurant, the pharmacy, and home. And remember, this is an errand, two errands that she sent him on, and as soon as he left, she killed the children. I want you to hear what Duxbury officer Vincent Cahill told the jury. And that's from our friends at East Idaho News. Do you see him as you're going down the basement stairs? Yes.

And where is he coming from and where is he going to? It's coming from my left, heading to my right. And what is his demeanor? He was screaming. And as you came down the stairs, did he point in a direction? Yes. Where did he point to? To the left side.

And is that where you headed? Yes. And when you went to the left, did you see two children on the floor in that area of the basement? Yes. And what did you do? I checked the pulse of the five-year-old girl and passed that information along. And then when fire came on scene, I then was backing away because fire was going to start taking over, taking care of the five-year-old girl. I then backed into the infant who was on the ground.

You checked her for a pulse. Did she have a pulse? No. And you said fire came down and started taking over. Was that firefighters from Duxbury Fire Department? Yes, ma'am. And you said you started backing up. Is that when you bumped into Callan Clancy?

Yes, ma'am. And at that point in time, what did you do next? I checked Callan's pulse. And did he have a pulse? No. We saw Callan and Cora face up on the ground. I immediately jumped on the radio to ask for two additional ambulances that we needed more help. and Patrick ran to Cora and I went to Callan.

While you were working on Callan, did you notice any injuries on him? Yes, he had deep strangulation marks around the entire circumference of his neck. What does that mean, Dr. Kendall Crown's deep strangulation marks around the entire circumference of the baby's neck? We're talking about Callan the baby. So it means the impression from the ligature or the exercise band that are completely around the neck. circumferentially because of the pressure of the band itself it cuts into the skin and makes kind of a deep red abrasion and that's known as a ligature mark when you see them circumferential about them neck it means it's completely around the neck

which is consistent with the being tied off around the baby's neck to strangle them there's not laying on his back his head was tilted to the right-hand side looked at him kind of in the face area one we got closer and his face was white, gray, lips were blue, eyes were blood shot, looked like blood vessels were popped in his eyes. Did you notice any injuries to his neck? Seeing that, my first instinct was to kind of grab his head and tilt it to the side, see if I can get a pulse, but, I mean, based on my training experience from previous incidents, I knew

it wasn't going to be good, so I moved the head. And that's where I observed some red marks on that right hand side. I noticed she kind of looked like she had some blood vessels around her eyes. Did you make any observations of the color of her skin? That was kind of pale, bluish. Did she have a pulse? No. Was she breathing?

No. We just started hearing loud screams. Upon his observation of us, myself and Officer Hall, he proceeded to head in our direction. direction leaving that room. And at that point, he looked up and he screamed, she killed the fucking kids. She killed the effing kids. He was screaming. Claudia King, have you ever heard the phrase jury nullification? I absolutely have, Nancy, and I could definitely see that happening here where the jury looks at the horrific nature of these crimes and says, we don't really care what she was going through. She killed these kids and she's going to have to pay for that.

See, I think that that's Bass Acwards. I hear what you're saying. Shannon Hill joining us, Shannon Hill News, in my mind, jury nullification in this case would be the jury knowing that she intended to commit this act, that there was pre-planning, there was a scheme, there was time to form intent premeditation under the law. But the babies are not in the courtroom to be heard. All they see is mommy crying and your heart goes out to her. She's paralyzed. And with her sitting there crying and frail and pitiful,

the jury may say, you know what? The state proved its case, but we don't care. We're finding her not guilty. Well, I think with a combination of the amount of times Lindsay Clancy reached out to medical professionals for help was on a number of different medications, called the suicide hotline. Her husband Patrick had her go to an inpatient treatment just a couple of weeks before this happened. It is an argument for the fact that she was dealing with some sort of postpartum psychosis. for bipolar disorder. And I think that that is going to be the defense's biggest argument was, look, we have this

woman who is reaching out countless times for help and wasn't getting the exact help that she needed. If you know or think you know anything about this case, there is a legal theory called newly discovered evidence that can still be brought in a trial for either side. Dial 7-8-1-9-3-4-5-6 tonight, we honor K-9D-D now protected while serving with Jackson County Sheriff's, Michigan. Thanks to vested interest in canines, DD now has a bullet-and-stab-proof protective vest. These life-saving vests, not standard.

They cost up to $1,200 each. Vested interest in canines. Donates these vests, Narcan kits, first aid equipment, two canines all across the country. And they have proudly vested nearly 7,000 law enforcement canines. Help protect canines who risk their lives protecting us. We remember American hero investigator Anthony Freeman, Bibb County Sheriff's Georgia, killed in the line of duty after seven years, leaving behind. his wife now widow, Jessica, and two children, Braden and Blakelin, sentenced to life without dad.

American hero, investigator Anthony Freeman. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight. I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast, guaranteed human.