Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - MOM LINDSAY CLANCY GOOGLES “WAYS TO KILL” 3 TOTS DEAD W/ EXERCISE BANDS

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

When Lindsay Clancy’s third child is born, her recovery seems to be different.   The 32-year-old reaches out to her parents and her in-laws to help her manage the children and things around the home. Her husband, Patrick Clancy sets up a home office in the basement to work remotely, so he can be on hand to help. When Lindsay starts to have thoughts of suicide, and worse, hurting the children, she checks herself into the McLean Psychiatric Hospital,  Five days after checking into a psychiatric hospital Lindsay Clancy is reportedly told she doesn't have postpartum depression. Husband Patrick Clancy tells friends that after her hospital stay, Lindsay seems to be getting better. She is sleeping better, interacting with friends and family, and going out in public without any difficulty. When Patrick Clancy asks his wife if she is having any suicidal thoughts, Lindsay Clancy says "No."    Later on in the year, with his wife having been prescribed at least 13 different medications, Patrick Clancy texts a friend saying he’s concerned that Lindsey has been prescribed too many medications. Patrick allegedly told friends that he worried she was suffering “the worst side effects possible” from one of her prescriptions. He says he thinks she is going through benzodiazepine withdrawal.    On a Tuesday afternoon Lindsay Clancy sends a text to her husband to pick up takeout.  As Patrick Clancy leaves to pick up dinner, Lindsay sends him a text to stop off by the drugstore and pick up some medicine for the children.   Patrick Clancy stops by the drug store to pick up the medication but gets confused as to exactly which medicine to buy. He calls Lindsay Clancy on the phone, but she doesn't answer. She calls back a minute later. Patrick says she sounded like she was in the middle of something. Lindsay answers his question about the medication and Patrick picks it up and heads to the 3V to get their dinner.  When Patrick Clancy comes home, he’s met with silence. He finds his wife in the backyard. She had jumped out of a second-floor window after slitting her wrists. The children are in the basement,  strangled, an exercise band still wound around their necks.   Investigators revealed in court papers that Lindsay Clancy allegedly researched "ways to kill" before the deaths of her three children.    Now Lindsay Clancy,  paralyzed after her second-floor fall, is on trial for three counts each of murder and strangulation.    Joining Nancy Grace today: Eric Faddis -  Founder of The Law Offices of Eric Faddis,    former felony prosecutor and current criminal defense and civil litigation attorney; website: EricFaddisLaw.com  Dr. Catherine Birndorf  -  psychiatrist and postpartum expert   Brian Bennett  - Fmr Police Officer at Columbia, SC Police Dept., Owner of Clearview Justice Training & Consulting - Specializing in strangulation assaults, domestic violence   Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Host of the Podcast "Mayhem in the Morgue", Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)  Kristina Rex  - Reporter, WBZ-TV, @KRISTINAREXTV (IG & TIKTOK) @KRISTINAREX (X) KRISTINA REX (FB)   Dave Mack -  Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. A loving mom, Lindsay Clancy, Google's Ways to Kill, then murders her three tots dead.

in the basement with her own exercise bands. Tonight, she claims I was crazy. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. She knew right for wrong. What appears to be perfectly sane obviously was not. This woman, whatever happened, whether it was planned in her mind, committed one of the most heinous acts I have ever heard. conscious at this time we're going to check with med flight who's over a 20 foot fall it's unknown

where the knife is or whatever she used to slit her she's in the looks like they're pinging around the back we'll get that info now she did use a knife at first unknown where that is at this time you're on the way we're with the count you are hearing the 911 calls at least part of them because The initial 911 is from the father, the dad of those children. The judge has ordered that that not be released. While we are not bound by that judge's ruling, we are adhering to it in the interest of justice. Instead, you are hearing back and forth between law enforcement. Is that the missing piece of the puzzle?

mom slits her own wrist and jumps out a window after killing all three of her children, the youngest, just eight months old. We have seen child murders by mommy many, many times before. Is this the fact that sets her, Lindsay Clancy, apart from her? Lindsay Clancy, apart from other moms? Well, do I have to say taught mom, Casey Anthony? Instead of any remorse, she was in every bar in town on stripper poles. Okay, so that's not really a good comparison. What about Andrea Yates?

Andrea Yates murdered all of her children. Similar to this case, she waits until her husband Rusty is gone locks the doors and methodically kills each child and they fought to live their bodies were bruised from fighting to get out from under the water where she held them under

Andrea Yates claimed postpartum psychosis and she was deemed to be psychotic at the time of the murders and she is in a mental facility today years later but then you've got Deanna

Laney also known as rock mom who bludgeoned her children dead with a rock, leaving one of them, as I recall, with permanent brain damage, she claimed psychosis. After eight short years, she has walked free. Different scenarios, same underlining theory, joining me an all-star panel, but first let's take a listen to those 911 calls again, again, to the control room. Do not play dad. with the police. The whole party took off the top floor of the house. She did slice her as well. And neck injury, neck laceration. She's conscious at this time. We're going to check with med flight. It was over a 20-foot fall.

It's unknown where the knife is or whatever she used to slit her. She's in the, looks like they're pinging around the back. We'll get that info now. She did use a knife at first, unknown where that is at this time. On the way, we're with the county. We've got a mutual aid on the way. Before I head out to our All-Star panel, including Christina Rex out of this jurisdiction. He was being in the courtroom since the beginning and was at the crime scene, the night of the murders of the three children. Before I go to Christina Rex and the rest of our panel, I want you to hear what Clancy's defense attorney has.

has to say. She's extremely emotional. However, she's unable and has been unable to express any happiness or sadness or cry. And in fact, sometime about a month or two ago, she made the comment, I just wish that I could feel something. Now our society fails miserably in true. treating women with postpartum depression or even postpartum psychosis. From our friends at court shop, let me see a picture of the three children.

We are seemingly focusing on the mom, Lindsay Clancy, and not on the three murder victims who could not fight back. They were strangled dead with mommy's exercise bands after she Googled ways to kill. After she Googled, can you treat a sociopath? After writing in her journal that she resented her older two children, she sends the dad out for takeout food and to the pharmacy, waits for him to leave, and murders her children. And let me remind everyone, Lindsay Clancy is presumed innocent.

Joining me, Christina Rex, reporter WBZ TV in the courtroom from the get-go and on the crime scene that night, I hear the defense lawyer saying she's been crying. Oh, okay. I guess so. She should be crying. Some juncture she says she's crying. Sometimes she says she's not crying. I don't care if she's crying.

They're dead. First, before we get to what's happening in the courtroom, there's going to be. hand-to-hand mutual combat over this case because the prosecutor is digging in that mommy made a plan. The defense is digging in. This is not just postpartum depression. It's postpartum psychosis. But I want to go to the night of the crime itself, Christina Rex. What did you observe at the scene?

Yeah. So this is top three worst crime scenes I've ever been to. You know, as a reporter, we're behind the crime scene tape. So luckily, I'm not, I didn't see the gruesome detail. but I've never seen police officers weeping at a crime scene the way I did that night. When we had gotten there, it was, you know, a breaking news. We just heard it over the scanner. We didn't know what was going on.

We just could tell it was something bad. But when I got to the crime scene and I saw police officers leaving the house in tears, we knew it was really, really a bad situation at that out. Christina Rex is my understanding that it was so bad that these seasoned officers had to get counseling. Yeah, it's not unusual in Massachusetts after a traumatic event, often ones involving children for the police stations to offer counseling. But in this case, we know, you know, officers took the station up on that. It took the department up on that and really did need that support because it's just how traumatic this crime team was. The children were all found, hurted into the basement and dead strangled with mommy's exercise bans.

You get there on the scene. again, what did you actually observe? Police officers in and out of the house, bringing out evidence bags, which is pretty standard to see police officers crying. And I remember the district attorney showed up on the scene and held a press conference after 10 p.m., which I know that doesn't seem odd, maybe to the general public, but for the district attorney, the head of the department for that entire county. to show up on scene to speak to the media that late at night,

you knew this was something really serious. Were you there when the children's bodies were wheeled out? Yes, but in Massachusetts, often the medical examiner will bring a van and block the view of any members of the public or cameras as they bring the bodies out. So I didn't actually see them. I want to go to that night. Christina Rex joining us out of WBZ TV. Was Mommy taken into custody that night?

Yes, but it's complicated. So she had injuries of her own. So she was taken to a hospital. She was actually taken to the local hospital near Duxbury, where they lived, and then brought to Boston because of the seriousness of her injuries. You can see in the pictures here. So she was in custody. in the sense that she was technically arrested and had police guards outside of her hospital room and at her hospital bed and she wasn't allowed visitors, but, you know, not taken into custody in the sense of going to jail the way we would think of it traditionally because she was so hurt.

Joining me is a renowned medical examiner, the chief medical examiner in Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, Texas. He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. He's a star of a hit podcast, May Him in the Morg, and he has performed well over 10,000 autopsies. Not only that, he is a husband and a father. Dr. Kendall Crowns, we've got two divergent views of what happened. I don't know the truth of it. Was she in postpartum psychosis, not depression?

Psychosis, where you actually do not understand what you're doing. In this case, she heard a, quote, unknown male voice ordering her to kill the children. She states that she said, go to God, baby, when she killed her children. So I've got the injuries to the three children. what happened to their bodies, and I've got Mommy trying to slit her wrists and jumping out of a window and apparently paralyzing herself.

Let's start with the children, Dr. Kendall Crowns. Strangulation with the use of exercise bands. What would the bodies reveal? Would I be able to tell if they fought back, like I know they did in the Andrea Yates case because their bodies were covered in bruises? So exercise bands are these... kind of rubbery

silicone or latex bands. They have a fair amount of stretch to them. Each child has them tied around their necks quite tightly. So as far as findings would be, you would, it's a ligature strangulation. So it would leave an impression around the neck that you could find at autopsy. Due to the young nature of the children,

their throat structures, hyoid bone, thyroid cartilage, wouldn't fracture because they aren't bony yet. you might see some neck muscular hemorrhages. As far as them fighting back, the infant, of course, probably wouldn't do much of anything. The slightly older children, the oldest child could kind of grab at the ligature trying to pull it off, which would leave fingernail marks on the neck as she was trying to remove the ligature from about her neck. If she fought back against her mom, she might have scratched at her mom, but it wouldn't show many injuries to her hands. don't have a lot of strength, so you don't usually see a lot of offensive injuries on them,

meaning like punching or something like that. Typically, what you're going to find in a case like this is them trying to get that ligature off their neck and seeing scratches around their neck. Dr. Kendall Crowns, if the children have been dosed with, let's just say, Benadryl, as an example, how would we tell that? Because if they didn't try to fight back, were they dosed? So commonly in these type of cases, the mother does poison them or gives them a drug to put them in a sedative, sedative state, so they aren't moving around and they aren't fighting back. And also the parent doesn't have to deal with them crying as well, which is going to be very difficult.

Benadryl is a typical one that is used because it'll put a child into a sleepy, translike state so they can be easily killed. One of the things we're going to look for in this situation is Benadryl in the stomach, which leaves kind of a pink residue in the stomach contents itself, depending on how much Benadryl was used. And then we'll also look at it in Toxelogic testing, looking for specifically diphenhydramine, which is the non-trade name of Benadryl. Dr. Kendall Crowns, I want to move to the mom, Lindsay Clancy. I feel that there is enough evidence to show she knew what she was doing. She had the wherewithal to lie to her husband saying she was too exhausted to cook dinner

and could he bring home takeout and to the pharmacy to make sure he would be gone long enough, long enough time, to herd the children, get them down to the basement, to retrieve the exercise bans. However, have you seen the list of the living? list of meds she was on. It's called polypharmism. I don't know what doctors were giving her all these meds, but take all these meds, and this alone would make you out of your mind. Listen to this. I'm going to give you the street names, the Latin names, the clinical names are unpronounceable to us regular people. Ambien, which is Zulpitum, Clonopin, Van, V.

Gallium, which is diazepam, Prozac, Lamacil, Advan, Rimeron, Syracill, Trazadone. I mean, I believe she was on

either 11 to 13 prescriptions, and the each one is heavy duty. I'm not talking about a baby aspirin doctor. Serious, serious medication, sleep pills, long-acting, anxiety pills, sleep and anxiety, that's valium, antidepressant.

Mood stabilizers, another anxiety in sleep, another sleep, an antipsychotic, another sleep. This woman had checked herself into, voluntarily, into clinics before the murders. What are these meds, Dr. Kendall Crowns? So the medications you're describing are a mixture of anti-anxiety, antidepressants, and as you said, sleep aids. She's obviously struggling with ongoing anxiety, depression, and this can all be brought on by pregnancy. It's a known clinical diagnosis. I'm not a psychiatrist, so I couldn't tell you exactly how it all works and what medications are best. But obviously, she was going through something to be on that many anti-anxiety.

anti-depressive medications. So does it play a factor? I couldn't tell you, but again, it is something to consider. In approximately 611 last night, the Duxbury Police received a 9-11 call for a report of a suspected attempted suicide of a female resident who had jumped from a window at the home at 47 Summer Street. Upon arrival, Duxbury Police in fire located the woman and she was treated on scene and transported to a local hospital, treatment where she remains at this time. She's been identified as Lindsay Clancy, age 32. First responders subsequently located three children in the homes under the age of five, unconscious, with obvious signs of severe trauma. A five-year-old girl and a three-year-old boy were transported

to Beth Israel Deacon's Hospital in Plymouth, where they were pronounced deceased. They've been identified as Cora Clancy and Dawson Clancy. A seven-month-old infant boy was medflated to Boston Children's Hospital, where he remains for treatment as we speak. Preliminarily, it appears the children were strangled. How did they know that, Dr. Kendall Crowns? That was Timothy Cruz from Plymouth County, the district attorney at that time. How could they look at the bodies? That's from our friends at WM you are and know the children, the babies, were strangled.

So I believe when they are all found, they have the exercise bands tied about their necks. So right there, you're going to know they're strangled. If the exercise bands are not there, you're going to have a ligature impression left around the neck from the band itself, which is this kind of gray, red, to tan impression that matches the exercise band. The other thing is, is because it's going to clip off the internal jugular and the carotid artery, you're going to get particular hemorrhages, so you'll have multiple little particular or pinpoint hemorrhages about the face and the inner eyelids and on the mucosa in the mouth. All those findings externally point to strangulation. As a result of information gathered during the course of the investigation, we developed probable cause and today are seeking and obtaining an arrest warrant on a Plymouth District Court charging 32-year-old Lindsay Clancy, the mother of these children, with their homicides.

Lindsay Clancy, as I state, is being treated at a Boston hospital. As soon as Abel, we will be arraining her and the two charges of murders and the deaths for her children. The baby Callan was being treated. He died. Again, that's Timothy Cruz, the then-Plymouth County District Attorney from our friends at WMUR. Dr. Kendall Crowns, let me remind you, is the chief medical examiner in Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth. Dr. Kendall Crowns, if they had lived, would they, they have been brain damaged permanently?

It is a possibility because of the fact that it only takes a matter of minutes, about three to four minutes for you to have enough lack of oxygen to the brain to cause permanent brain damage. So even if they had survived, there would have been long-term implications or sequela from the lack of oxygen getting through their brain. They potentially would have been in a persistent vegetative state for their environment. entire lives. Okay, hold on.

I knew it was only a matter of time, Dr. Kendall Crowns. You're hitting me with Latin, Dr. phrases. What is sequela? That is the consequences of having the lack of oxygen to your brain perencoma or your brain, your brain starts dying. So the sequela of brain death means you might be paralyzed. You might be unable to breathe for yourself. You might have to be on all sorts of machines to keep you alive,

which would be the vegetative state that they potentially could have been from the brain damage caused from the lack of oxygen to their brain. Dr. Kendall Crowns, how do you do it? How do you stay so calm and clinical? I was thinking about you explaining sequela. It sounds like the Latin derivative of sequence, the sequence of events following the strangulations with mommy's exercise bands the sequence of events would be that they are forever in a persistent, as you say, vegetative state,

in other words, like a coma. They can't move, they can't talk, they can't play, they can't speak. They're just lying there on life support until they die. The sequela, the sequence of events, vegetative, a vegetable. That's what happened to them. How do you, Dr. criminal crimes, especially in light of the fact you're a dad. How do you not talk about this case and think about your own children? So any pediatric case, really any case is upsetting. It's sad when someone

dies, especially with children. Children really can't defend themselves. Children are innocent, and they had a long life to live. It's upsetting. It's upsetting to me. I mean, like you said, I have kids but I separate myself from the fact that they are not my children and I have a job to do and if I do not if I get too emotional I get wrapped up in the emotion of the death of this child I cannot perform my duties I have a job to do to determine the cause and manner of death no matter how upsetting it is that's what I'm there to do is determine their cause and manner of death and I would be doing a disservice to the decedent or the dead person and the family, the living family, if I don't do my job correctly. So I can't sit there and be upset about this horrible tragedy that has occurred

because I have a job to do and that's what I do every day. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellairdirect.com. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Kendall Crowns, I want to talk about the mother. And then I'm going to go to Dr. Catherine Bendorf. She is a psychiatrist, postpartum expert, co-founder and CEO of the medical director at the Motherhood Center in New York.

You know what? Hold on, because I want to come back to you about the physical nature of her injuries, Dr. Kendall Crowns. and I would like to state that I can't think of anyone I would trust more performing an autopsy than Dr. Kendall Crowns because of his, of course, experience in education, but his steadiness and as a former prosecutor, what am I going to do with a doctor that gets on the stand and cracks up and starts crying or gets upset?

I mean, okay, I'm already upset enough. I don't need my medical examiner to be upset. Dr. Catherine Bendorf. You just must be like a limp dishrag because you deal with this every day. Oh my goodness, I've got so much to say about you. I'll try to say it quickly so we can get to the case. Okay, hold on.

Founding member Payne Whitney Women's Program at Wheel Cornell Medicine. That's the New York Presby Hospital. That's not shabby, doctor, not shabby. of what no one tells you a guide to your emotions from pregnancy to motherhood. All I had was what to expect when you're expecting and I was too tired to read it. I never heard about this. What no one tells you a guide to your emotions from pregnancy to motherhood.

And the nine rooms of happiness, loving your life, finding your purpose, getting over life's little imperfections. Dr. Bendorf, I could go on, but I want to get to the case in chief. You heard all of those pills. and meds she was on. Once, I believe, for schizophrenia, how can one person take all those meds and even function? Well, for individuals with postpartum psychosis,

they have to try different medications to see what works. And they are often tried at different times, not all at the same time. So for individuals suffering from illnesses like this, bipolar disorder, psychotic disorders, depression, anxiety. We generally try things. These are trial and air psychopharmacology, as you said, polypharmacy, you know, might be seen because there are multiple different medications being tried at different times. Sometimes there's a cross-taper when you're putting one on and taking one off. So, you know, I don't have an understanding of how these meds and

what sequence they were used. But for someone with postpartum psychosis, they are medication, they sound like medications that are legitimately used for such an illness. What do you make of her being on this potpourri of serious, serious drugs? Again, for individuals with postpartum psychosis, I would say typically one is on three medications at minimum, right? A mood stabilizer, an antipsychotic and probably an anti-anxiety medication. That's a typical group of medications to treat, to really get a hold of this severe, serious, life-threatening illness that is a psychiatric or medical emergency.

You need to use the big guns, so to speak. And not all medications the first time work for somebody, so you might have to try something else. So what I make is that in some, in somebody, again, I don't know the sequence of events or when they were used at what times, but, you know, it would be uncommon to have somebody on all of them at the same time. I'm trying to make sense of what I am learning about the case. Back to investigative reporter, Christina Rex from WBZ TV, who was there on the scene,

the night of the murders, and has been in court. this is going to be a knot-down drag-out in court. The prosecutor is digging in that Mommy knew what she was doing. The defense is arguing postpartum psychosis. Psychosis is much different from depression. Christina Rex, is it true that mom tried to commit suicide? Yes? In this case, yes.

It seems to me the state is going to argue why would she try to commit suicide? if she didn't know what she had just done was wrong. Yeah, it does seem like they're going to try to argue that. And not only that, they claim in their opening statements that there was a phone call that Lindsay actually called Patrick back. So, you know, if the defense is arguing that she was in the state of psychosis, they're going to have to say when that was. Was it the entire time? Yeah. And at previous hearings, the prosecutors had kind of insinuated that maybe the suicide attempt,

was, you know, feeble at best, which is something that the defense attorney really dug into in his opening statement, fighting back against that allegation. Christina Rex, WBZ TV, you stated that a phone call was made. What is the significance of the phone call? When was the moment the call was made? So we always knew that there was a 14-second phone call between Lindsay and Patrick at the point where Patrick was away from the house and when Lindsay was at home alone with the kids that night. We didn't know specifically when the phone call happened, but in the prosecutor's opening statement,

she claimed that the phone call happened in between the time when Lindsay had already killed the children in the basement and before she went upstairs to try to take her own life. So the claim was that Lindsay had a missed call on her phone from Patrick because he was at the pharmacy, getting some medicine for their oldest daughter, and she called him back. and had a 14-second conversation with him. And she was on the first floor at the time, then before she went upstairs to attempt to take her own life. So she spoke to him on the phone,

and he had pulled investigators that she seemed normal. Nothing seemed like it was off. Oh, my stars. Now I see why the prosecution is bringing it up. Right. That's what the prosecutors are claiming happened there. And Patrick had told investigators early on that the only thing that seemed different on the phone call

was that she seemed like she was, distracted by something. The three bodies in the basement, possibly. What can you tell me about her internet searches? So prosecutors say that over the course of some time, I don't know the specific amount of time, but not just that day. On the family laptop, which only Lindsay and Patrick had access to, there were searches for suicidal ideations, ways to commit suicide, ways to kill. And Patrick has testified that he didn't make those searches. So then the takeaway is that Lindsay is the one who made those searches.

Where did we learn about her writings? I guess it was in her journal that she resented the older two children? Yeah, Lindsay kept a diary, and this is part of the indictment. So, you know, when the prosecutors indicted her, there's a whole statement of the case where they really lay out why they're charging her with first-degree murder. and they claim that she kept a diary where she wrote kind of daily logs and and sometimes feelings and that she wrote at one point that she resented her two older children because they put her in a position where she didn't feel like she could treat her youngest Callan like her first baby. And actually Patrick testified that there were oftentimes, you know, once Callan was born where

Lindsay would take care of the baby, they would often, he said, divide and conquer. So Lindsay would take care of the baby. Callan and Patrick would take care of the two older children. A Plymouth County, Massachusetts grand jury and died at Lindsay Clancy in the killings of her three children, Cora 5, Dawson 3, and 8-month-old Callan. The 33-year-old faces three counts each of murder and strangulation. CT Insider reports, after allegedly killing her children, Clancy attempted to commit suicide by cutting her wrist and jumping out the second-story window of her home. Clancy's attorney says she's paralyzed from the waist down, suffering from spinal injuries, and likely will never walk again. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple.

Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com. Crime stores with Nancy Grace. Deliberately and meticulously, killed by this defendant on January 24th, one by one. She wrapped exercise bands around each one of the kids' necks and pulled until their little body, were limp and lifeless. First Dawson, then Cora, and finally Callan. She goes to the second floor master bedroom, locks the door, crushes up some pills, and attempts to take her own life.

She uses the knife she got in the kitchen to slash her wrists and her neck. She moves the bed away from the wall, away from the window. She opens that window. and goes out. She lands on the cold, hard ground. Patrick tells the first responders, I need to find my kids. He had asked the defendant where the kids were, and she told them they were in the basement. So when he went in the house, that's the first place he went down into the basement. He's still on the phone with 911 when he finds each child with an exercise fans still wrapped around their neck. He screams for help.

And he says she killed the kids. You are hearing the felony prosecutor in this case, Shannon Buckingham, giving her opening to the jury. That's for our friends at East Idaho News. Straight out now to veteran trial

lawyer, criminal defense attorney, Eric Fattis, founder, the law offices of Eric Fattis. Okay, Eric, hit it. What's your best? Your best shot. You know, I'm not sure I've seen a stronger mental health case. In this case, the jury's got to decide.

Is Lindsay Clancy a bloodthirsty monster who delights in the death of her own children? Or is she someone who was severely deranged? Hearing hallucinations of voice telling her to kill her children on a 13 drug cocktail. And the person who the father of those children described, as very, very sick at trial. Which one is she? I think everybody can look at the case, the historical record, things leading up to what happened and determined that it's the latter,

that she had suffered a psychotic break, not only postpartum psychosis, but also bipolar disorder, contending with multiple diseases or defects, aligned with the defense statute in terms of a lack of criminal responsibility, a very strong mental health defense here. Christina Rex, WBZTV, had she been in, mental health therapy, pre-children. I know she had postpartum depression. But before that, had she had treatment for schizophrenia or any other mental illness? So no. At least what her ex-husband

Patrick testified to was that her mental health issues, you know, she struggled and had maybe seen a therapist briefly after her first or second child, but really when she got into mental health treatment, numerous different kinds of treatment was starting in September of 2022, which was just, you know, four or five months before she killed the kid. So prior to this, there had been no extended mental health treatment. She was not under medications, let's just say for hallucinations, for suicidal ideation, for psychosis, for schizophrenia, even for depression, nothing. Okay.

That's correct. That's significant because the state's going to, argue. So she suddenly went crazy now and killed her children. And back to you, Fattis, why are you saying either she is a, quote, your words, not mine, a bloodthirsty monster or a woman that had been overprescribed serious drugs? Those aren't my only two choices. And I don't really, I don't really accept either one of them. You know, I think the prosecutor's got to convince this jury that Lindsay Clancy was of reasonably sound mind and did this in a calculated and knowing fashion that this was deliberate that she wanted to just off her kids.

But there really just isn't any significant evidence of her motive to do that, of a reason to do that of some kind of payoff instead. According to the father Patrick Clancy. But did you just say there's no evidence of motive? Whoa. Let me send you back in the time machine to criminal law. one L first year

the state doesn't have to prove motive I don't have to get in her head and bang around like it's granny's attic and figure out what the motive is we don't have to prove motive so you don't erase Jurassic erase

okay try again Fattis even though motive is not an element that the prosecution has to prove Don't you think a jury wants to be given a reason why she would do this? The reason they have is that she voiced some frustration about some of her kids at some point. Haven't all parents done that? Does that equate to a motive to strangle three of your children to death?

I don't think it does. There you go. Motive. Don't need to show motive. Why does any parent, you know what, I've got an expert. Brian Bennett is joining us along with Dr. Catherine Bendorf. Brian Bennett, former state law enforcement officer over 25. years. Senior instructor in advanced behavioral science at the State Police Academy in South Carolina,

16 years, and he specializes in strangulation assaults, domestic violence, and elder abuse. Brian, is there a motive to kill a child? Is there a good reason? Have you ever heard a good reason why the child has to die? I haven't. No, I mean, never a good reason for me. Some of the offenders that we've arrested in the past. They formulate a reason that seems to make them feel better or justify their actions with respect to this case. And one thing that I immediately thought of is something I say all the time. And that's patterns always exist before the time of discovery. What really matters is what do those patterns tell us? Certainly we have patterns of searching the internet, patterns of, you know, sending the husband out. But we also,

We also see patterns of mental health treatment, patterns of going to doctors and getting medication. So the combination of patterns and what those mean are going to be really important to both the prosecution and defense and what the jury determines what has the most weight in their final decision. Dr. Catherine Berndorf? If it's medically determined that she had postpartum psychosis, the symptoms of it are, you know, having delusions, hallucinations, confusions, beliefs that are out of touch with reality, and that can exist in a very circumscribed way

inside what appears to be very normal behaviors. So you won't always see it. It comes and goes. It waxes and wanes. And that is why there's confusion. It's a tricky illness, and we don't have enough education around it or training for it at places like the motherhood center or through PSI,

we don't have enough discussion about it so that health care professionals can recognize it and swiftly and get people to the care they need. It's a very tricky illness. So it comes and goes and it may appear that someone is doing okay. and simultaneously there is this almost, let's say, abscess within the brain that is psychiatric, that includes command auditory hallucinations, delusions, fix false beliefs that what they are doing

is right and has to happen for various non-reality-based reasons. So again, if it's medically determined, that Lindsay Clancy had postpartum psychosis, then her behavior is consistent with this illness. At this hour, Lindsay Clancy is in the fight of her life. She is in a court of law. She's being tried for the murders of her three children. Her husband was listed as both a defense witness and a state's witness.

He was witness number one for the state. He has moved, remarried, and started a new life, trying to get beyond the murders of his three children. And let me remind everyone that this defendant, Lindsay Clancy, and all defendants, are innocent until proven guilty. Proven guilty with evidence that pierces the presumption of innocence and proves beyond a reasonable out the defendant is in fact guilty. So as we go to air tonight, Lindsay Clancy is presumed innocent. If you know or think you know anything about this case, dial 7-8-1-934-56-56-7-8-1-9-34-56-56. We remember an American hero, Detective Scott McKenna, NYCPD, passed away in the line-of-duty

leaving behind a grieving wife, Danielle and son Sean, American hero to take of Scott McKenna. Thank you to all of our guests. I only wish I had more time to explore this with them. But thank you especially to you for being with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight. But I'll see you tomorrow night and I until then. Good night, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast. Made human.