Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - MOM SUZANNE SHOT WITH RHINO, ELEPHANT TRANQ HUBBY “SNEAKS” INTO MEMORIAL

Episode Date: May 10, 2024

Suzanne Morphew's death has been ruled a homicide by undetermined means. The toxicology report shows several drugs found in her system at the time of her death: Butorphanol, a synthetic opioid pain-killer, Azaperone, a sedative commonly used as a tranquilizer for pigs and elephants, and medetomidine, a sedative that can decrease an animal's heart rate, commonly used by veterinarians. According to a 2021 affidavit, Barry Morphew admitted to police that he frequently used BAM and other tranquilizers to sedate deer to remove antlers for his hunting business. However, BAM is the commonly used abbreviation for Butophanol, Azaperaone, and Medetomidine. Azaperone is used as a sedative for Elephants, Rhinoceros, and Giraffes, while Medetomidine facilitates immobilization of large carnivores and great apes.   Police say in the recovery of Susanne Morphew's body, her favorite tee-shirt was pulled from the location.  And in the past few days, it's reported that husband Barry Morphew quietly slipped into an invite-only memorial for his murdered wife.  Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Tisha Leewaye, Friend of Suzanne Morphew  Dr. Grey Stafford  -  Host of the Podcast "Zoo Logic" - Wildlife Expert, Animal Trainer, Zoologist,  Book: "Zoomility: Keeper Tales of Training with Positive Reinforcement"  Mark Tate  -  Trial Lawyer / Legal Analyst - Tate Law Group- TateLawGroup.com   Chris McDonough -  Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, Host of YouTube channel- ‘The Interview Room’, ColdCaseFoundation.org Joseph Scott Morgan -  Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", Twitter: @JoScottForensic Lauren Conlin -  Investigative journalist, Host of The Outlier Podcast. Host of Corruption: What Happened to Grant Solomon, https://laurenconlin.com, X- @Conlin_Lauren, Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin, YouTube- @LaurenConlin4  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Breaking news tonight. Missing mom Suzanne's remains found miles away from home, but the killer thought that would never happen. Suzanne found shot full of animal trank to bring down rhinos. You heard me right. Strong enough to bring down rhinos, an elephant, a giraffe, a bear shot into the body of 120 pound woman. This as Suzanne's hubby reportedly sneaks into her invite-only memorial. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Oh, Suzanne, if anyone is out there that can hear this, that has you, please, we'll do whatever it takes to bring you back. We love you. We miss you. Your girls need you. No questions asked. However much they want,

I will do whatever it takes to get you back. Honey, I love you. I want you back so bad. Really? Will you really do everything it takes to bring her home? Well, how come you didn't tell police that her number one favorite sweatshirt was missing? And that's what your wife was probably wearing when she disappeared, aka was murdered. Guys, with me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. We know that Suzanne shot full, and I mean full, animal trank. Trank, I have now learned, thanks to my friend, the zoologist, Grace Stafford, is strong enough to bring down a rhinoceros. Okay, but let me just set the table before I go to Dr. Grace Stafford. Joining me also is renowned forensic professor Joseph Scott Morgan, author

of Blood Beneath My Feet and host of a wildly popular podcast, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, for Gray's understanding, he deals with animals that don't typically murder each other. Could you explain how we know Suzanne is shot with so much animal trank that was still in her system years later? This is the fascinating part about this case and that very abbreviated autopsy report that we had, Nancy, and that is this concentration of BAM, this animal trank, was actually located in the head of her femur, which is a long bone in our leg up at the top where it joins in to the hip socket. They actually cut the top of that off of these skeletal remains, and they were able to render it down to the point where they could extract this chemical compound contained therein. That was probably for me one of the biggest reveals.

But the problem is, is that right now we only have a qualitative suggestion that it is there. We know nothing about the quantitative level. Well, I know this, Joe Scott Morgan. I know that as when you shoot a rhino, a rhinoceros, I'm going to go to Gray on this. You know, Gray Stafford, I'm just a trial lawyer. All right. Joe Scott Morgan, he's a death investigator. Joining me right now is a renowned expert in his field, Gray Stafford, host of podcast Zoo Logic, wildlife expert, animal trainer. He's a zoologist. He's written a book, Zoomility, Keeper Tales of Training with Positive Reinforcement.

Grace Stafford, I'm very confused about why a sedative, a tranquilizer powerful enough to literally bring down an elephant or a charging rhinoceros or a bear would be used on 120 pound woman who was just recovering from cancer. The reason I believe she was shot with a tank full of this stuff is because just like with animals, it wears off and a pretty short period of time. So it wears off and dissipates out of the system. She had so much in her system. They had to cut off, saw in half the top of her leg bone to get out DNA. And that is where they found the trank. What is B brother M mother A alpha? What is it? Well Nancy it's a three drug cocktail. There are a lot of different sedatives and tranquilizers that veterinarians and wildlife managers use but some of them are more safe than others. Some are more effective than others. Some are quicker acting than others and And some work in certain species

and don't work in other species all that well. So BAM is a safer opioid, but it is an opioid, and it can cause all sorts of side effects that can be dangerous in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing. Okay. Well, let me just ask you a couple of street vernacular questions, Dr. Gray Stafford. Gray, isn't true. Civilians aren't supposed to have BAM. And here is my attempt at pronouncing butorphanol, metadimidine, and zepron. Regular people are not supposed to be walking with this in their dart gun.

You're absolutely right. These are controlled substances and they are opioid derivatives or analogs or synthetics. And we know what happens with opioids, right? We've got a crisis with fentanyl and so forth. So, yes, these don't belong in the hands of lay people like you and me. I mean, think about it. I'm not going to take the twins for a walk down Fifth Avenue or Peachtree Street if somebody can walk by with a trank gun over their shoulder full of BAM. B brother A alpha M mother. No I'm not because it's strong enough to take down

literally a wild animal. Imagine a rhino charging straight at you and that's what Suzanne is shot full of? That's right. And some of these drugs are very potent, so you don't need a lot of volume. I mean, you imagine a rhinoceros is 2,000 pounds or more. Certain drugs, you would need large volumes of sedative to subdue them. But some of these like BAM are more concentrated, more potent, so you need less volume, which is important if you're darting an animal because you can't sit there with a large plunger and a large volume and hope that you're going to get it all on board. How quickly does it leave an animal, say a rhino system? Well, some of these drugs can be reversed, so they can be reversed rather quickly, but if they wear

off, it could take minutes to hours or longer. You mean like with Narcan? Correct, yes. Yeah, there are different drugs that can reverse the effects of the individual drugs within this cocktail. And that's often the case when it's applied by a veterinarian. Once we're done treating an animal, we reverse it. But still, the animal has some lingering effects for several minutes. I remember something about you, Dr. Stafford. When I first met you you we were showing the twins a baby, I mean baby white tiger just as small as an actual human baby and at first I wouldn't let the twins get near it because I didn't know what was going to happen and he said it's fine they can get near it and so we got close to it. And I remember that in that facility, there was a tranq gun.

I looked at it and I recognized it wasn't a regular gun and I figured out what it was. How do you get your hands on this powerful tranquilizer? How would a civilian get their hands on this kind of tranq? You need a prescription by a licensed veterinarian or medical doctor in the case of human use. So I'm not exactly sure how an average person would get this through legal means. The tranq guns themselves are harmless and we keep those in position, but the drugs themselves are under lock and key until needed. Guys, take a listen to this. According to a 2021 affidavit, Barry Morphew admitted to police that he frequently used BAM and other tranquilizers to sedate deer to remove antlers for his hunting business. BAM is the commonly used abbreviation for butorphanol, azepiron, and medetomidine.

Azepiron is used as a sedative for elephants, rhinos, and giraffes, while medetomidine facilitates immobilization of large carnivores and great apes, the same three drugs found in the bones of Suzanne Morphew. The autopsy report says Suzanne died by homicide by undetermined means in the setting of butorphanol, azepirone, and medetomidine BAM intoxication. So we know that Barry Morphew admits that he uses BAM, betorphinol, zephyrin, and metamidine. He has them. Wow. What a co-inky-dink. He has the very same thing that turns up in Suzanne Morphew's system. We are analyzing the autopsy report and bringing in experts to make sense of what we're learning. Wow.

That's a coincidence, isn't it? But I'm not asking you to pass judgment or make a legal or evidentiary conclusion, Dr. Grace Stafford. But it would be like me walking up to my grandma and saying, hey, can you score some meth for me? She would have no idea how to get her hands on a hit of meth than the man in the moon. So how, just like you, Greg, you're saying, I don't know how a person would get their hands on rhino tranquilizers, but somebody did.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, joining me, a renowned expert and author, Dr. Gray Stafford. I want to open it up to the rest of our panel, our all-star panel, as we try to decipher what we are learning. It's not just that the husband, Barry Morphew, admitted that he had this very powerful rhino tranquilizer. Civilians are not supposed to have their hands on. He also admits, and I'm going to let Lauren Conlon correct me if I'm wrong. I want you to take a listen to this, Lauren, that, oh, he may have accidentally on purpose thrown away the rhino tranquilizer immediately after his wife goes missing. Listen. A search of Morphew's property turns up empty darts, a dart package, and a dart needle.

Morphew's questioned about a dart needle cap found in the laundry room dryer with washed sheets. Morphew says he has no idea how it got there, claiming the last time he used band tranquilizers in April, he shot from a window near the breezeway, the same breezeway near the spot Suzanne was sunbathing the day she died. A 130-page arrest affidavit details Morphew's involvement with the same tranquilizers found in Suzanne's body. He admits to frequently handling these drugs and says it makes him look bad. When asked about the tranquilizer cap in the dryer, Morphew admits it looks suspicious. Lauren Conlon is joining me, investigative journalist, host of The Outlier podcast. Lauren, thank you for being with us. Let me understand this. So Suzanne Morphew's remains,

they're skeletonized remains. I want to talk to you about that sweatshirt, you and Joe Scott Morgan. Skeletal remains are found miles and miles away from the home. Bet the killer thought that would never happen. And when someone put Barry's alleged location, we're referring to the husband, Barry Morphew. We see where her remains were found. We see their residence miles and miles away. We see where her bike and helmet were found in two separate locations. And we see Morphew's alleged location. Okay, hold it. Hold everything. Is this right?

That Barry Morphew admits, number one, that he uses rhinoceros tranquilizers and that he happened to be using the same tranquilizer that was found in Suzanne Morphew's kneecap in her body, in her DNA. And he admits in a 130 plus page affidavit that, yeah, I threw all the way that animal shrink right after Suzanne went missing. Why? Why did you do that? If you need it for your business, why did you throw it away? I mean, I would no way throw away this microphone right here or this cell phone right here because I need them. I need them to work. So why did he suddenly, the day his wife goes missing or on or about, throw away all his animal trank, which he's not supposed to have anyway. Explain that to me, Lauren Cotland.

You're exactly right, Nancy. And you nailed it. I know he is not considered a suspect right now, but the empty trunk, right, found in the dryer. And then you have the trunk gun he threw away, which he needs for work. Very suspicious. And then the fact that the trunk was actually found tangled up in the sheets sheets in his daughter's sheets, who's away at college in the dryer. I mean, I don't know about you, but washing sheets are a big pain in the butt.

I don't really wash sheets that I don't have to. So that was a flag for me. And then something else about Sewatch, where she was found, the bones that were found that were obviously Suzanne's. I mean, this is a very secluded area. This is called the bone yard. So whoever did this, they most likely thought that these remains would never be found. Lauren Collin, you're absolutely correct. Listen. Morphew says he has no idea how the needle cap got in the dryer. He said the last time he used BAM tranquilizers and shot from the window near the breezeway was in the dryer. He said the last time he used BAM tranquilizers and shot

from the window near the breezeway was in late April. Investigators asked Morphew whether he might have thrown those tranquilizers away in one of his five trash runs he made immediately after his wife disappeared. After hearing investigators track down surveillance video from McDonald's, a bus stop, and a men's warehouse, and actually saw Morphew throwing items into multiple trash receptacles, Morphew then items into multiple trash receptacles. Morphew then says he may have thrown some tranquilizer materials away. Why did Barry Morphew, the husband who is not a suspect, has not been named a person of interest again? He was charged earlier in Suzanne's death and then those charges were dropped.

Why is it when your wife goes missing, you turn into a neatnik? He was so hell-bent on throwing away the trash. He went to five trash cans at McDonald's, a bus stop, at a men's warehouse. Chris McDonough joining me, director of Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, and host of a YouTube channel, The Interview Room. That's where I found him during the Moscow, Idaho quadruple sleigh case. Chris McDonough, you think you've seen it all, right? Well, you haven't. I bet you never had a case with rhinoceros tranquilizer, did you? I didn't, till now. Yeah, no, Nancy, I've never had a case where tranquilizer was utilized.

And that is a very creative way of obviously incapacitating somebody. And the fact that he had experience with it is just at the top of suspicion. Can I just ask you a question on a personal note, Chris McDonough? I know you live with your wife, aka Honey, as you call her. But you may have to take the trash out sometimes. You know, when I or my husband take the trash out, we just walk to the end of the driveway where we have the trash cans hidden. And we put, we don't go to McDonald's or the bus stop. Oh, please let me see those photos again. There's the bus stop. Then there's a McDonald's. Then there's a men's warehouse. Oh, my goodness. He was certainly a neat neck. Check it out.

All the way through this parking lot, he's throwing trash away. And then he admits, does he not, that he may have thrown away the animal tranquilizer paraphernalia the very day his wife goes missing. Darn. Yeah, go figure. Right. I mean, here, you know, he's got to make five trash runs. I mean, how many of us just in normal everyday life do we utilize, you know, five separate trash cans outside of the trash cans that we have in our own garage, potentially at our house?

And the fact that he's thrown away boots, he's thrown away his mail because they found some items in the hotel room and he mentions it during their FBI interviews. This is all very, very high, highly suspicious activity. And, you know, to the point where the FBI went back and they pulled the video and they confronted her with him. Joining you right now is high profile lawyer from the Tate Law Group. Joining us out of Savannah, Mark Tate is joining us now. I became familiar with Tate not only because of his trial record, but during the Alex Murdoch double murder trial near Savannah. Mark Tate, thank you for being with us. Could you give us in a nutshell? This is not an app from being discovered by the police, then you can argue that there's proof of

that attempt to hide by taking trash cans to multiple locations to get rid of their contents. That would be circumstantial evidence. Direct evidence would be someone's, for example, eyewitness testimony that I saw this guy load his trash bags with tranquilizers and put them directly in the McDonald's trash can. So, you know, there's a whole lot of language that's engrafted on the notion of circumstantial evidence. But really, everything except direct evidence is circumstantial evidence. It doesn't necessarily mean it's weaker. It doesn't necessarily mean it's weaker. It doesn't necessarily mean it's stronger. It's just something that is evidence from which a jury can

draw conclusions, you know, so long as they're reasonable. And it allows a prosecutor to argue in closing argument why there should be a conviction. And it also, because of the weakness that is generally perceived in circumstantial evidence, it allows for defense lawyers to argue. Mark Tate, this is a yes, no lightning round for you. Isn't it true that the black and white letter of the law judges instruct the juries before they go to deliberate? And one of those instructions is circumstantial evidence can be as strong or probative as direct evidence. Circumstantial evidence, that's nothing to sneeze at. Everything that's direct is either an eyewitness. And by the way, your example was circumstantial. Just because you see the husband throwing away an animal

tranquilizer and there's animal tranquilizer in her body, that doesn't mean he killed her. It's circumstantial evidence. Direct evidence would be an eyewitness to the crime, the murder, or DNA, or maybe a fingerprint. All of that would be direct evidence. But can I just throw a hypothetical at you, Mark Tate? You deal with this every single day in court where you earn all that money. Mark Tate, Barry Morphy, who is not a suspect in this case, he has not been named a suspect or person of interest this time. He admits to police, I've read a 130 page affidavit. He admits he has BAM, B-A-M, butorphanol, zephyrin, and metadimidine, metadimidine, which is a rhinoceros tranquilizer. Civilians aren't supposed to have it. He admits he has it. He admits he shot the animal dart tranquilizer gun in the breezeway. We know that Suzanne was sunbathing in that breezeway the day she went missing. And we know that he admitted that he threw it all away.

And that was on the day she went missing. Would you call that circumstantial evidence? Because I would. Well, yeah, it's circumstantial evidence. It's very powerful evidence, though. It links this man with all of the things that were used, apparently, that were found on the remains that had the hoodie that this young lady was wearing when she was cooking dinner with her mother a few months before she was dead or was killed or went missing at that time. So this is really difficult evidence, I think, for a lawyer to overcome for the defendant. However, this guy does have apparently resources and he has a lot of money. And so that means he has the ability to retain lawyers, retain experts, and really put the state through everything they possibly can to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And so it's not going to be an unchallenging task for a prosecutor. There's no such thing as a slam-dunk case.

And if a defendant has resources, they can mount a serious defense that will make the state mount equally as serious as a prosecution. And remember, he knows enough now not to talk to the police and police love it when suspects talk because they know how to get them to confess, even when they're not necessarily convincing. Suzanne. Maybe see if you can get that up to the road and then check the serial number or call the hardware and see what kind of bike she has? Am I supposed to believe that Suzanne was riding her bike along that stretch of highway? I was there and it was so cold and the snow. We were looking at that spot. Am I supposed to believe that she was riding along on her bike and somebody shot her with rhinoceros tranquilizer

and she fell off. Then that person moved her helmet miles away and then her body's found miles away from there. Wow, that looks staged. That looks staged, the way that bike is placed there. That's for a jury who would stage a scene. Let me remind everybody, Barry Morphew, the husband, has not been named a suspect or a person of interest. Just recently, after digging and digging and digging through social media, we find posted on Insta a shot of Suzanne Morphew, the missing mom, and she is wearing a gray Crested Butte hoodie that we believe she was wearing at the time she was murdered or she was placed in it. This photo is of Suzanne cooking breakfast with her mother-in-law, Shirley, in Suzanne's Salida, Colorado home in 2018. Tisha Leeway is with me, very dear friend

of Suzanne Morpheus. And I've asked you in the past about how she would appear when she came into your salon. And you always said, oh, she would never wear like, you know, flip flops and a sweatshirt that she was always dressed up. Yeah. Is that true? Yes. So you never saw her in this sweatshirt, did you? No, I didn't. Tisha Leway, let me ask you, do you have certain things you wear around the house that you wouldn't be caught dead in at the grocery store? Yeah, I do. I remember one night my son, John David, had to, was asking a girl to Hoco Homecoming, and in their school, they give the girl a poster and candies. We had to go to Kroger at like midnight. I had on my pajamas. I wore three pair of sunglasses the whole time. Okay. That said, Suzanne would never have gone out in public

in that sweatshirt, would she? No. Suzanne didn't wear this out and about. What does that prove just like you, Tisha Leway, may not go out in your PJs. She wouldn't go out in that. Yet her body was found wearing that. Why? Why? Because I would argue to a jury. She was still home. Exactly.

That she was still home. And that's not all. I happen to know this is one of her favorite sweatshirts. What does this tell me? I want to go straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.

Joe Scott, you have investigated well over 1,000 death investigations. This is a shirt she only wore at home that we know of. This is a shirt that her body was found in. And my husband, my boy and girl would know if my Fulton County Fire Department sweatshirt was gone. They would know. I've had to call hotels across this country looking for that sweatshirt. They would know if it was gone. But I don't recall Barry Morphew ever telling anybody these clothes were missing. Yeah, it's a signature of home, isn't it?

You know, it's something that you have there. Kim, my wife, she's got a Jack State sweatshirt that she exclusively wears at home and woe unto me if I ever put my hands on it because it's like a blanket for her, you know, that she enjoys. It's soft. It's familiar. But no, she's not going to go wear it to the grocery store or wherever. And that goes to the intimacy of the environment that you're in. You know, if you're going out to go for a ride or this sort of thing, you're going to leave the house. You're probably not going to go in your favorite sweatshirt, particularly in the temperatures there. You're going to want something that's more layered, perhaps, that is meant for working out in. This is meant for comfort, for lounging.

But, you know, Nancy, here's the interesting thing. That sweatshirt can really tell a tale about what happened perhaps in the moments leading up to her death. Now, you have to factor in the sweatshirt is going to be greatly degraded because of the location it was found in, those circumstances. But there could potentially be evidence on that sweatshirt, any kind of hole, or as we refer to it as a defect, perhaps, in that sweatshirt, where it's something other than the natural decomposition of that sweatshirt could be telling a tale. That's going to be interesting for the criminalists back at the crime lab to do their assessment on.

We don't have that report yet. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Back to Tisha Leeway, a very dear friend of Suzanne Morphew. Tish, you have been very open about your feelings regarding this case. Were you invited to the memorial? No, I have never even been talked to by Barry or the girls. Repeat, Barry Morphew is not a suspect in the case. Tisha, who was there? Barry Morphew's family?

Were Suzanne's family invited? Did they come? I don't believe they were even invited to join them. Why? Which is, to me, is sad because it's not about anybody else but Suzanne. So, I mean, we're having ours this Saturday and, you know, everybody's invited. Last year, I did reach out to Barry's attorney and invite them to our last years. But this year, I just didn't because every time I do invite them, they decline. So this is news to me.

Tisha Leeway, very dear friend of Suzanne Morphew. Are you telling me you invited the husband, Barry Morphew, to multiple memorials or rallies and he never came? Yeah, I did invite through his attorney last year and I got back that they are declining. Did they say why? No. Well, why do you have to go through a lawyer to invite a man to his wife's memorial service? Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm thinking. But I did it that way just to protect myself, I guess.

Why? Just to protect myself because I don't want to be on that lawsuit, you know? I hear you. I hear you on that. Which reminds me, Barry Morphew has not been named a suspect of personal interest in this case. So you were not invited. Suzanne Morphew's family was not invited. Can I ask you something, Tisha? When you think about Suzanne's body decomposing out in that boneyard, as they call it, and her in her little loungy shirt what goes through your mind horrible

i mean this whole thing is a it's horrible like obviously we know she was shot with tranquilizer right like that's a horrible death right in there i mean it's not just tranquilizer, Tish. It's rhino, elephant, bear tranquilizer. She was, what, 110 pounds, probably soaking wet, like not even close to what a rhino. And it knocks down a rhino. Can you imagine what it did to her? Joe Scott Morgan can think about it. This woman, I think, was around 120 pounds, shot full of rhino shank. And even more poignant, she was still wearing her leukemia, her cancer port. Yeah, and that's recovered at the scene, Nancy. This is fascinating.

You know, as fascinating as the contents of that bone are, we have yet to hear anything about this port other than it was found. This is a plastic port that's indwelling beneath the skin and look when we go to the doctor we get three types of shots you need to get a sub-q fat shot think diabetic shot an IM which goes directly into the muscle or an IV which goes into the venous system if this thing is plugged into the venous system when we begin to think about this this is a quick acting delivery. Who would know? Who would know? What intimates in her circle would know that she has this port available?

And, you know, people keep talking about this dart that's flying through the air, presumably, and lands in the body. Okay, that's an IM shot that goes into the muscle. But what? What would happen? just think about this, if you had, through a struggle, you had access to that port and you could jam one of these darts into it or a syringe. That is a direct delivery. That even works quicker than, say, for instance, being shot with a tranquilizer dart. Here's where the tale is going to be told. The medical examiner would have seen that thing, but guess who still has it?

The state crime lab has it. They will take that thing apart, and what they're going to do is they're going to look within that port. It's a plastic port, so it's kind of protected, and see what residual chemicals might be in that thing. That might be a big piece of evidence here, Nancy. Suzanne Morphew and her husband, Barry Morphew, moved to Colorado from their hometown of Alexandria, Indiana, two years before she vanished. But now, Morphew has left Colorado to move back to Indiana, where, according to reports, Morphew is living with Shoshana Dark, who also lived near Suzanne and was allegedly spotted leaving a hotel with Barry Morphew on Valentine's Day, 2021. What? A girlfriend leaving a hotel in 2021 on Valentine's Day? There's nothing good about that. Let me go to Lauren Collin joining us, investigative journalist and host of the

Outlier podcast and of Corruption, What Happened to Grant Solomon. Lauren, thanks for being with us. Can I just ask you very quickly, why is it being reported that Barry Morphew sneaked into the memorial? Why is that being said? Well, in my opinion, and all of the threads here are saying that he wants to keep a low profile. He did not speak at that celebration of life for a reason. He showed up with his daughters. It was his family and it was one of Suzanne's friends and a pastor that spoke. So yeah, in my opinion, he just wanted to sneak in, sneak out and call it a day and not be a spectacle. Now, what is this I'm hearing about Shoshana Dark? Who is that? Is that a girlfriend? I knew

that there was a ruckus about her going to the Morphew home and taking a package. It was caught on somebody's surveillance video and she landed in a whole bunch of trouble for that. But apparently she was house sitting. Well, I don't care about the package. I'm curious about the title of girlfriend. Who is this person? Yeah, so as far as I know, she is a housekeeper and Barry and Shoshana denied being together and having a relationship. But again, it was reported that they were seen leaving a hotel on Valentine's Day in 2021. And that obviously is very suspicious when Barry is under so much scrutiny, I'm just not sure why they wouldn't come out and just be honest here. Morphe was seen with the alleged girlfriend, Shoshanna

Dark, during a trip to a storage unit in Salida, Colorado. So was that incapacity as a girlfriend or a housekeeper? Don't know. But I don't know what your housekeeper is doing with you at a hotel on Valentine's Day. You know, again, Mark Tate, I guess that's what you would call circumstantial evidence. Well, that would be circumstantial evidence. And again, these are all things. And you talked a little bit about the Murdoch trial. And obviously, this has some things that are similar, but one glaring difference,

and that is I would say that in this instance, the fellow who allegedly killed his wife, at least in the last case, it's been dismissed and he's not a suspect now. At least he's being quiet. He doesn't owe anyone an explanation about why he went to his wife's funeral. This idea that he sneaked in is something that we have engrafted upon the circumstances in the story that we're seeing. He doesn't owe an explanation for that. He's not speaking to the police. The whole issue about was that bicycle dumped? The only way you're ever going to know that is if the officers who were investigating this case get Morphew to essentially say that he did it,

and he's not talking to them. And when you don't talk to the police, and I know you don't like me saying this, Nancy, but I know you agree because prosecuting these cases where the defendant doesn't talk are multiple harder than it is, say, prosecuting the Murdoch who wouldn't shut up talking. So it's a good, valuable example to people who want to watch how to defend cases. And it's interesting to watch how he acts while he is not a suspect. I think the housekeeper at a hotel room on Valentine's Day is damning circumstantial evidence, but it's not a murder. And so there would have to be some bridge built, I believe, between having your housekeeper

at a hotel on Valentine's Day and perhaps that provides some incentive to do someone harm or to have harm done to them, depending upon who's sneaking with who. I like that, depending on who is sneaking with who. And you're right. Mark Tate, I don't know that he snuck into the memorial. I know that he didn't speak and that the majority of the people there were his friends and family.

Or so I've been told. Believe me, I was not invited. That said, does that make him a killer? No, it does not. But he's got a lot of explaining to do about all of that rhino trunk found in her body that he suddenly went on a cleaning tear and threw out at five public dumps, trash cans, and was caught on camera. There's a lot of explaining. And let me reiterate, that's why I've got Mark Tate on with me today to take a different side. Barry Morphew has not been charged in the murder of Suzanne Morphew again. He was charged and it was dropped. We wait as justice unfolds. Let's stop and remember American hero, Deputy U.S. Marshal Thomas Weeks, Charlotte, North Carolina. U.S. Marshal Weeks gunned down with three others trying to serve an arrest warrant. He leaves behind a grieving wife, Kelly, and four beautiful children, Patrick, Abby, McKenzie, and Brady. American hero, Deputy U.S. Marshal Thomas Weeks. Thank you to all of our amazing guests that joined us tonight. Nancy Grace signing off.

Good night, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.